/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>18319038
>even if you do join us -- there are 17 people.
Okay so we know that there are 16 people because Shannon and Kanon share the same body. If Erika is added then there are 17.

So the core of his argument is the definition of "people" and whether it refers to bodies or personalities. From the different games there are red truths that specify that Shannon and Kanon count as 2 "people" as the tallies include them as such (see pic related). Otherwise, he's arguing that there should be 5 and 14 people.

Then we have the red truths involving the master keys
>The only master keys are the ones that each servant holds, one per person
>There are only 5 master keys

Now the "one per person" line means Shannon and Kanon have to be different bodies, since if the 2 keys are on the same body, the red truth of "one per person" is falsified.

Based on these red truths, it is established that Shannon and Kanon are 2 bodies. Therefore, when added all up (excluding Erika), the tally becomes 17. Of course this brings us back to the red truth of
>even if you do join us -- there are 17 people.

If Erika is added to the now established 17 people, there should be 18 people. His explanation for this is as follows:
His blue truth: "shortly after Furudo Erika washed up on Rokkenjima she died".
He also believes that Battler's red truth has to do with counter-factuals. Battler's red truth (there are 17 people) is a denial of the games in which Erika existed as candidates for the real two days.
Counter-factuals are:
1. If A, then B
2. Not A
3. Therefore not B

and gives the example of:
1. If I eat, I am full
2. I don't eat
3. Therefore I'm not full

Going back to his blue truth theory and the red truth of
>even if you do join us -- there are 17 people.
He uses the counter-factual:
1. If Erika would have survived long enough to be welcomed as a guest after she washed up on Rokkenjima, then either the 5th or 6th game would have occurred.
2. But in reality, she is the 18th human on the island but she died before the family even noticed that someone had washed up on the beach.
3. Therefore there are only 17 people, because the 18th one is already dead and therefore plays no role in any of the other games and specifically not in a game that presents the truth about what really happened on the island.

So timeline A, Erika dies -> 5th and 6th games occur and she meets the Ushiromiyas
Timeline B, Erika lives -> 5th and 6th do not occur and she doesn't meet the Ushiromiyas

So put shortly, Erika is dead and therefore does not count towards the total of 17. Hence why she says it in red truth; she's the actual 18th person but she died before meeting the Ushiromyas. This is also why the red truth is in the form of an introduction. She asks to be welcomed as the 18th person but Battler denies it in red. This denial cancels out timeline B and by counter-factual; timeline A occurs and thus why there are 17 people.