/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>47634369
Hard to pick but this'd prob make for a good sticker

It's been a long while since I typed up a proper post or had deeper thoughts regarding Umineko with the shit state /07/th has been in due to people that completely refuse to engage with its narrative and insist for others to do so as well, so forgive me if I get some details wrong but I'm going on an autistic tangent about Ange and hear how other people see her. She's my favorite for a multitude of reasons but I feel she's largely misunderstood by a lot of readers despite being a stand-in for them, and I can't imagine Umineko feeling as personal as it does if it weren't so deeply invested in the troubles of one severly depressed and traumatised high school girl.

The way I view Umineko is that it's the creation of Ange Ushiromiya. Not a literal creation, but her romanticized view on the events Tohya and Ikuko write for her. Umineko's story is Ange's concious creation, her dream of what happened on Rokkenjima based on what she's given by Tohya, which she builds in order for her to cope with her reality. I've seen some people reduce Ange to a needless addition to the story and that her arc would've been better left off with her staying dead at the end of episode 4, where Amakusa kills her. I have a seriously hard time wrapping my head around how these people view Umineko as a story for them to come to this conclusion. Without Ange, there is no story and no bridge between the reader and many of the core messages. It's through her that many of the ideas about love and the cycle of abuse are built up to and expanded, and this continues in episode 6 when she learns to apply love between the relationship with a reader and author. Eventually, both she and the reader are tested. Will Bern tempt her to fall back to her cynical tendencies after everything you've been through with her, or will you allow her to trust Battler as an author and look at the story with love? I always appreciated that the story lets you choose this for yourself. For as much as some people like to call Umineko pretentious with how firm it is in its belief and how it frames its views, you can't deny the seriousness in which it takes its themes. It doesn't truly belittle any one worldview and it's the whole reason why it lets you choose for yourselfm why else would the choice exist if it wanted you to believe in it's philosophy no matter what? A major theme of the work is that not all people can conform to one singular mindset and that different people have different needs in order for them to be happy. The trick ending is framed the way it is because it's not what Ange herself needs in order to live a happy life, it merely continues the cycle of abuse for herself. Even Erika, who's a parody of the average detective trope, isn't merely reduced to the sum of her own experiences in her scene with Dlanor about her ex, where both can't fully deny or sway each other of their worldview. It doesn't reduce or belittle either of them and it makes it clear to me that this work really meant something to R07 when he was writing it, and it only works if you look at it with just as much respect and seriousness yourself. The reader has to look beyond the surface and trust that there's meaning behind what was written, only then do you truly attain the right to judge it. It's the lesson Ange learns, to not just view the world through one cynical lens in which she believes she must be right in that view, but to realize she can also be happy despite her sadness and see the meaning behind people's actions, rather than believing they were just out to get her. Neither state of mind is mutually exclusive, and only by coming to understand that is she able to see twilight, both light and darkness. It always hit me very hard, I genuinely think her story is incredibly moving and I'm always bothered when I see some people disregard her as much as they do in favor of a more battler-centric interpretation. Maybe I just relate to it more than the average person on a personal level but I digress.

>>46454024
Oh, I didn't make it, I appreciate whoever did though

>>46234037
Goodnight friend. I'm gonna go prepare dinner

>>46211990
Oh yeah, that moment is insanely heartbreaking. It's the start of Ange's downfall into the cynical person she is at the start of EP4 and how she ends up coming to view the world through only a single lens. She's really no different from Yasu in that particular moment, only difference is that she didn't have an easy way to commit mass suicide.

>>46163554
>>46163528
Cute Asmo, cute Luci

>>46147809
Good night, I'm going to bed too. Make sure to grab a midnight snack

>>46131791
I haven't in a while though I've been writing short wtc stuff myself again lately, I'll probably post it on ao3 at some point. A while back I read a really good Yasu short story, I'll post it once I find it again. Do you have any good recs?

>>46117050
Good night, sweet dreams

>>45995817

I can see where you're coming from I think, i don't mean to sound condescending so I aplogize if I do. Continuing with my own interpretation, I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to find the solution to the mysteries and the question arcs especially are more like puzzles themselves that build up to Umineko's themes and they are very important because even if certain aspects of them can be solved with mere reasoning, Umineko preaches that eventually you will need to consider love at some point if you want to reach a satisfying conclusion. Even if Erika is an extreme example, Umineko takes its themes seriously and does not fully donwplay or discard her way of thinking. In possibly one of Umineko's most important scenes, Erika and Dlanor face off in a logic battle where Erika provides 84 blue truth's as to how her Ex could've cheated on her, while DLanor can only provide 6 arguing that he didn't. Erika wins said logic Battle but Dlanor is still able to point out the eventual limit to her way of thinking in that she wasn't able to refute her points and truly disprove that he didn't love her. It doesn't compromise either character's philosophy and it shouldn't, I'm not explaining it very well but if you read it its a very balanced exchanged which respects both character's way of thinking. At the end of the day Umineko is a philosophical text and philosophy is something that everyone has their own opinions about. It doesn't deny or downplay the power of logic and reason, however it does point out its limit. Umineko's argument is that pure conductive reasoning can't always work.

>Umineko provides so many easy ways to discredit, downplay or attack people who might have differing opinions that fans don't even bother to engage (rightly or wrongly) with those who bring up issues

I kind of half-agree with you here because Umineko does seem like it spits in the face of the reader in EP8 even if I don't see it that way myself. I think there are people who interpret the episode as jab at them and there are people who interpret is a way to jab people who don't like the work, neither of those interpretations I agree with. I've explained in a previous post who I consider a goat but it has nothing to do with people who think Umineko isn't particularly well-written or disagree with it's philosophy, just those who simply do not try or care whatsoever yet choose to have an opinion on it. And it's not really a word I throw around much at all because I prefer to just talk about the work with someone who seems to have issues with it rather than labelling them. The work and all of philosophy in general is subjective and everyone is encouraged to find their own interpretation about things they care about. I am not good at making long posts but I hope you get what I'm trying to say, apologies if I sound incoherent or don't make much sense