/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>20927167
Erika's point of view mostly came from her experience with her boyfriend, something like making discovery of a feeling she forgot so long ago is what would make it beautiful, sadly it's mostly white knight fantasy that would be laughed at by the likes of Erika Fantasy is only the expansion of magic beacuse otherwise impossible things become reality and only the most unreasonable outcomes could make those happen !

>>20783173
I also want to fuck Erika and love her

>>20643018
>>20642995
>>20643000
tfw erika will never love you

>>20139790
And what can you love about a character like Erika who is against love ? good choice but i still like natsuhi more than Eva

>>17714536

>>16894783
>It cannot blind you.
And when someone can only see the sun, they not be able to see anything else? If a person fell in love with an ugly monster, how could such a person live while deluding themselves that he or she is in love with the most beautiful person in the world?
Love is only looking at something and not seeing what it truly is, overpraising the actual truth and being blinded, until that illusion is broken.

It is no coincidence that Ryukishi references Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliette so much, a person who equally saw the trappings of love.

Thou blind fool love, what dost thou to mine eyes,
That they behold, and see not what they see?
They know what beauty is, see where it lies,
Yet what the best is take the worst to be.
If eyes corrupt by over-partial looks
Be anchored in the bay where all men ride,
Why of eyes' falsehood hast thou forgèd hooks,
Whereto the judgment of my heart is tied?
Why should my heart think that a several plot
Which my heart knows the wide world’s common place?
Or mine eyes, seeing this, say this is not,
To put fair truth upon so foul a face?
In things right true my heart and eyes have erred,
And to this false plague are they now transferred.

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound:
I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet by heaven, I think my love as rare,
As any she belied with false compare.

Love is an illusion, a misunderstanding.
Mutual love is a mutual misunderstanding of being mutually loved.
And engagement is a vow to not wake up for your whole life from that misunderstanding.

>>16894809
Love is both beautiful and terrifying.
Only one that has experienced both, and accepted the duality could understand and see Love for what it truly is.

>>16894783
It cannot blind you.
And when someone can only see the sun, they not be able to see anything else? If a person fell in love with an ugly monster, how could such a person live while deluding themselves that he or she is in love with the most beautiful person in the world?
Love is only looking at something and not seeing what it truly is, overpraising the actual truth and being blinded, until that illusion is broken.

It is no coincidence that Ryukishi references Shakespare's Romeo and Juliette so much, a person who equally saw the trappings of love.

Thou blind fool love, what dost thou to mine eyes,
That they behold, and see not what they see?
They know what beauty is, see where it lies,
Yet what the best is take the worst to be.
If eyes corrupt by over-partial looks
Be anchored in the bay where all men ride,
Why of eyes' falsehood hast thou forgèd hooks,
Whereto the judgment of my heart is tied?
Why should my heart think that a several plot
Which my heart knows the wide world’s common place?
Or mine eyes, seeing this, say this is not,
To put fair truth upon so foul a face?
In things right true my heart and eyes have erred,
And to this false plague are they now transferred.

My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound:
I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground:
And yet by heaven, I think my love as rare,
As any she belied with false compare.

Love is an illusion, a misunderstanding.
Mutual love is a mutual misunderstanding of being mutually loved.
And engagement is a vow to not wake up for your whole life from that misunderstanding.

>>16894809
Love is both beautiful and terrifying.
Only one that has experienced both, and accepted the duality could understand and see Love for what it truly is.

>>16647891
>Do you believe Ryukishi07 deeply believes in what he writes?
What dfo you mean.

>Without love, it cannot be seen."
Absolutely. That line is the main theme of Umineko.

Love is simply valuating something in your hierarchy of values that you deem to be selfishly important, either because it tells you something about existence, you enjoyed yourself in its company or it helps you survive. The higher something is in your hierarchy of values, the more you love it. For example, say that you love person X but love money more, then you wouldn't spend all your money to save that person from cancer or whatever because you never really highly valued them. If you do love them more than basically anything, you would throw away everything you have because that love is high in your hierarchy of values. If you value something lower in your hierarchy of values yet sacrifice something higher in your hierarchy, then that would be a contradiction of terms. If you love someone very much in your hierarchy of values yet aren't willing to sacrifice everything lower in your hierarchy of value for it, then it shows that you don't love it.

This is similar to Umineko. If you do not value anything, you cannot see any good traits it might have. You see this about most people who go on rants about how the phrase ''without love it cannot be seen'' as a criticism for why Umineko is shit without mentioning any positive attribute. Apathy is the dismissal of something being important and Nihilism not having any hierarchy of values or a self to form hierarchies.

Similarly, Erika says the opposite, that with love you start to imagine things which is also true. When you're in love with something, you tend to love it so much that you tend to have an over evaluate of it and then to love the idealized notion rather than the reality with all its flaws. Shakespeare was big on this and it's not really surprising that Ryukishi keeps referencing Romeo and Juliette. There are countless sonnets and instances where Shakespeare finds people who love the true person rather than the passionate idealized versions and this more describes the folly of love more than love itself.

Ryukishi saying that without love it cannot be seen, and that if you've decided that you hate something, you won't see anything good in the opposite viewpoint. Ange has no love for Eva, so she can't see anything else.
It has nothing to do with magic but heart and biases. How many times have you argued on 4chan or on the internet about something, and the person wouldn't see your point because of how much unfounded hatred they had for your position or the thing you like? Like some piece of media.

For people who are very vocal about Umineko being shit. You'll notice that one of the thing they bring up constantly is only the negatives; what they didn't like or pissed them off. Never going in the middle to find a common ground to indulge the idea of the other side. People only see one truth, their truth, and the people who also accept their version of the truth, and nothing else. This is the flaw of humans. We seek the truth but we cannot even agree with each other on which truth is the correct one.
Have you ever argued with someone and had a vicious smirk that you knew the other person was such an idiot for having that opinion or taste? That complete dismissal look of superiority. It's honestly the worst aspect of humanity. It reminds me of the quote by Nietzsche
>The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends
Except that most people tend to never love their enemies or hate their friends.

Don't hate people. Don't look down on position you deem inferior. Just pick the correct position you think is right and be open to opinions.

Personally, it's a core message that I love about Umineko. This is the cold truth of humans. We are too tribal to be open to opinions but we try. We just fucking try. All this endless arguing for nothing when we all just want to be happy and find the truth. But we have to sneer at others who see the truth differently.
It's just sad.

The problem stems from our inability to properly communicate ourselves to others. Small semantics and dissuasion brings more argumentation than progress. It reminds me of a parable that I can't remember the name where a bunch of guys find a vase in the middle of the desert. They can only see through the cracks and a few can touch. One sees that it's a rope. The other feels that it's hairy. Another feels that it's rough like a rock. Another feels that it's wet. It's an elephant. Everyone is correct but no one is right.

>>15658653
>How someone can trully love something it doesn't exist?
We already talked about this last thread.

>>15645971
I don't see a single negative thing within that sentence

>>15538710
Do you even need to ask

>>15144358
Fuck love.

>>12169708
Can't sleep, mysteries and truth need to be uncovered.
I still think Erika is right about her commentary about love but she outright dismisses it.
Love is delusional and there is no proof but by falling into the delusion can something greater than what reality can provide come out of it and become magical; love.

>>12169727
Just because something is portrayed doesn't mean it has to be taken literally either.
Seriously, you saw the scene and just went ''yep, that totally happened that way''.

The emotional truth is that Tohya wrote this fiction as how he wished it would have happened.
Or you remove the meta and you get the actual final moments of Battler before he lost all his memories and drowned in the ocean.
There is no possible context to which Battler would be with Beatrice at the end. There is no way Battler would immediately forgive her, especially immediately after she murdered his whole family.

By the end of the VN, sure, Battler is in love with Beatrice and I'll agree that it's a great way to show their love being eternal, but if you go past it, you can see the truth behind it.