/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>46465432
grammar guides. imabi.org and sakubi.neocities.org

>>46465433
thanks will take a look

>>46465398
>imabi
>sakubi
what are those again?

>newbie with poor vocab
of course it is, and reading is going to be pretty hard for a long time,
my suggestion is not try and bash as much vocab as you can because it probably wont work and will cause a burnout
instead try studying kanji radical and/or meanings so it sticks more
reading real easy stuff also helps a lot, look for kid level immersion

ok real talk, deck posting aside, i'm like 2 weeks into this shit and i'm getting kinda tired of bashing my head against Imabi.

part of me thinks i should continue trying to understand imabi, the other part thinks i should just read sakubi or something and start reading as soon as possible

i'm doing a core6k anki deck and i'm only like 170 words in so my vocab is poor

>>46379627
>you'd simply say here's where i am
i got n1 (140/180) after about 2.5 years but i wasted a lot of time doing RTK, wanikani, pimsleur etc. and it did nothing for me
i fell for all the timewasting disinfo bullshit so now im trying to warn others
my japanese speaking is conversational but i obviously have an accent and my 滑舌 is not very good, so a vocaroo wouldnt impress anyone
>here's what i did
linnies, vinnies, winnies, youtube and grammar studies (tae kim (but sakubi is better nowadays), sou matome) and anki vocab cards

>>46379037
i actually dont, because ive already proved that i know english, and my english is better than your japanese (or english) will ever be
and yet i am not a native english speaker. how do think that happened?
all i did was this, minus the japanese-specific steps (kaishi, sakubi) >>46378828
if you want to argue about how my advice is incorrect, feel free to do so in any second language that you have learned in adulthood
but it seems you cant even formulate an argument in english so im not holding my breath here

>>46378598
1. learn hiragana and katakana (and how they sound)
2a. do the kaishi anki deck, and at the same time
2b. do the sakubi guide front to back
3a. read japanese
3b. listen to japanese
(3c. put words you dont know into anki, optional but more efficient if you arent retarded)
3d. look up and study grammar you dont understand
4. repeat 3 until fluent

this is literally all you need to know or understand to learn japanese. dont get baited by shitty guides written by people who dont speak japanese.

>>46308562
i don't understand what/why you're asking me

>>46308572
i'm a beginner too and enjoying cure dolly as my way into the language. maybe i'll use tae kim or sakubi as a point of quick reference
>inaccuracies
i don't expect these grammar guides to be the law. i just want to learn enough of the fundamentals to first consoom the easy stuff, and then organically grow my understanding through exposure. this approach seems to be common thread between all the different DJT guides

>>46308771
NTA but thanks for these, those look like great resources
what are your main criticisms of cure dolly? maybe it's not the most rigorous but i'm finding it very accessible and structured in a way that my brain understands. as a starting point and springboard into other guides, it seems fit for purpose (and i don't expect it to be anything else)

>>46275832
Turbo autism guide to learning Japanese as fast as humanly possible:

>Abandon all shame all ye who enter here, even if you think you don't have to, trust me you do.
>Flashcard your kanas, you shouldn't need more than 2 days to learn both hiragana and katakana even with a job.
>Use physical real ass paper instead of fake ass paper, don't use anki, REEL paper.
>Say stuff out loud when reviewing the cards, this is not a joke, actually do it, I want to hear your のs across the screen.
>Flashcard the first 2 grades of joyo kanji, make sure you write the kanji with the right stroke order (use a dictionary for this).
Writing stuff in real paper really helps for a lot of people, and setting up anki is a floodgate to procrastination to avoid, just stick to physical paper.

>Go to any grammar guide, learn the basic particles without flashcards, if you don't have a guide use https://sakubi.neocities.org/
>Realistically you only need は / が / か / の / も / に / と / から / を / で / や / より for the absolute bare minimum, don't flashcard them, just wing it until you "get" the meanings through passive immersion.
>Do the same for conjugation, through realistically you only need base/imperfective, negative, potential and volitional forms as the absolute bare minimum to barely scrap by, unlike particles you do have to study conjugation, but that can come later.
Immersion is far more important than getting meanings absolutely perfect because for better or worse all language is fluid and imperfect, doesn't help JP relies a lot on context too making immersion even more important.
Getting shit wrong is fine, what's more important is getting shit at all, you can always fix mistakes later, bad habits are a spook, if you want to get everything perfect on the first try go pay for some Japanese classes.

>Don't read yet, go sing some karaoke, be it anime OP songs or whatever is the FOTM to 歌ってみた.
This is not a joke, do it, no balls.
From what I have seen, karaoke or singing along is the second best way to immerse yourself in the language, second only to actually talking to a japanese person that happens to know english and getting corrections in real time, but you can't do that solo.
Doesn't even matter you don't actually understand anything, you have to learn how the language flows first, it will also help you nail down your kana if you haven't already.

Once you sing your first song (again, doesn't have to be anywhere close to perfect), then go start reading, and you bet I will tell you to read out loud too, most people come off as not even reading stuff in their inner monologue and just seeing the definitions of their hover dictionary.
Don't, voice it, BECOME your own audiobook producer.
From here it's just the usual "just go read bro" with some karaoke sessions on top.
Jokes aside, what I have seen is the biggest hurdles for EOPs when learning are first just "getting" that Japanese relies on context more than English, and not knowing how the language flows so you can "get" JP prose at all.
The former is fixed by trying to get what the song lyrics mean, not translating them, understanding them, which is hard as fuck and as sink or swim as it gets.
The latter is simply a "lack of proper immersion" problem, which surprise, audio input AND output also solves.

what is the fastest way to get grammar down to read vinnies

is it really just tae kim? or sakubi? or something else?

>>46092172
thanks chief
>>46092176
i know basically nothing so far
100 anki cards and only partway through sakubi

>>46043728
you have 2 options

the dekinai cope of the guy that knows translations are edited MTL at best, trannylations at worst
>copypaste line by line and replacing all japanse punctuation marks ？。、（）with english ones ?.,()
>use a hover dictionary during your MTL so you get a better idea of what the words mean and when scuffed MTL sounds odd you know what the real thing is supposed to be
all things considered once you take this step MTL is not terrible, and yes it has to be line by line or it starts skipping shit, and even with this it can start skipping shit
people will call this sacrilege and it is, but if you really don't give a shit about learning once you learn to read between the MTL lines it's not THAT bad, and by that i mean it's not worse than official translations
besides you will start picking up shit passively for the other option anyway

and two, the autistic balls deep approach
>speedrun your kana and the first 2 grades of joyo kanji
>skim a grammar guide, particularly particles (including sentence end particles) and (basic) verb conjugation, doesn't matter which, use the sakubi one if you don't know what to go with, cure dolly also exists
>just start reading while referencing either a dictionary or a grammar guide when you see a kanji or conjugation/particle you don't know
despite what dekinais may lead you to believe japanese is not hard to understand grammatically until keigo and yakuwarigo start spanking you
the difficulty comes from just memorizing conjugations/particles and vocab (kanji)
learn kanji as words when you see them used, not as raw kanji, it will make it exponentially easier, you will never use 80% of the readings anki vomits on you
the important thing here is to not translate, but try understand it in japanese without translating, once you start doing this you will at some point just feel it "click" and you will just "get it" and then it's smooth sailing from there
if you get stuck on something for more than 15 minutes just skip the line and guess off context, leave it for a reread in the future, that's what translators do too anyway
try saying out loud what you read too, for whatever reason i found that helps memorization for me

regardless of what you do, reminder to use poricom for scans, it's in the OP, kanjitomo is outdated AF

what the fuck is a one form and five form verb and why did this sakubi fag not explain it

>>45836523
Sakubi is basically dirty, quick, crackhead tae-kim and I like it for that. You can read and make sentence cards (optional) from the entire thing in like a day or two if you dedicate yourself to it. Cure dolly is kind of meh and starts getting tiresome around part 20 but for sure watch her lesson 13. I don't think I've seen anywhere else explain stuff as good as she did there

imabi vs sakubi vs tae kim?
i see tae kim recommended all the time but i don't see much about imabi and i don't think i've ever seen anyone mention sakubi.
i've been watching cure dolly and i mostly like it but some of her explanations and ideas are a bit bizarre so i want a second guide to read alongside so i can double check things

>>45830747
Just do the usual.
>Learn kana, don't even worry about nailing it to perfection, just "good enough", this takes 1-2 days. 1-2 hours if autistic.
>Skim a grammar guide like sakubi, and only the basics, you will use it as a textbook for years: https://sakubi.neocities.org/
>Learn the first 2 grades of joyo kanji, again only to "good enough", takes 3-4 days, one if autistic.
>Don't bother with anki for kanji, if you really want to flashcard your way to victory do it with physical pen and paper.
>Install an OCR or text hook, likely both depending on what you read/play/watch.
>Get started on reading, go back to grammar guides or a dictionary whenever needed, which will be often.
>Repeat for like 2-5 years until N1.
Just remember to avoid hover dictionaries and j*sho because the databases are compromised, just JP > JP dictionaries like kotobank instead, MTL if you have to.
Also avoid Japanese learning communities like the plague.

>>45768990
>the dojg deck is only like a few hundred cards
The main problem is that ever since starting mining, I really hate using other people's cards because they take so much longer in the new card queue, so I'd be using that deck but turning them into my own format. This obviously takes quite a while (lollmao just get off djt and go make them lmao). If I wasn't so particular about this, it probably wouldn't be that much of a problem to add an extra month/2 months of cards and smash them out.
>try it and see if you like it, dont be afraid to drop it. but ultimately reading more is also what you need
Alright, thank you. I think I just needed some confirmation if the deck was total shit or not due to the general attitude towards textbooks beyond beginner levels
>>45768996
I didn't really like tae kim at all. Sakubi and cure dolly was only what made it stick for me

I know that this is full of shitposters right now, but speaking of grammar, can anyone give me some genuine advice on whether I should use the DOJG deck or not based on my situation? I used a website called sakubi and a few cure dolly videos when the explanations seemed weird, and this worked very well when I made sentence cards for almost everything (about 150 or so I think). Would it be worth also doing this with the DOJG deck, or does the sakubi website have pretty much everything that is absolutely essential? Do I just fuck off back to reading/jpsub anime and figure it out myself? I really don't know

How long should i study grammar with Sakubi guide? I so much want to read manga for learning

I think it has to be no earlier than 2017 or 2018, probably really 2018, since which date I have been around. I ignored the djt thread until it appeared on jp. I remember vaguely that first it was this fruity thing with dreamy girls on pictures and yotsuba or something, which I hated, but then it was as if Jamal's aesthetics suddenly took over it when I once visited it. then I would periodically hang out anonymously. although it was a bunch of extremely isolated amateurs, there was that constant vicious talk about optimizations and linguistics, but as I can now reflect, it was never actually high level. jamal made the thread a lot of fun, but the vicious talk stayed, and maybe became more vicious. jamal spat on the fruitiness and crushed it. but the thread became greatly out of tune with /jp/, though the previous thing it had likewise did not belong to it. a good representative of... perhaps a reaction to that vicious idiot style of discussion can be observed in the "sakubi" guide, but I have not looked at it for years, so it may have been redesigned. it used to be a total reflection of djt. there were guide wars and there was jamal, laughing. laughing at everybody. those were the star days really. personally I was sometimes on the thread for a week, then gone for a month or two. interestingly, I think I never followed any advice from the thread. I never read a guide. I always did my own thing. I came to respect jamal. I believed jamal had it, that he knew Japanese. the only other person I liked was the kanken dude, whom also jamal fully endorsed, and he laughed much. with jamal, it is always about having a laugh, from the innermost, secure cause of self-being. but I struggle to name the years here. I think the depth is not great.
I took the name jamal fan I think when there was already qm, during one of those times when I came to the thread again and discovered there was "qm", some namefag who seemed cool. I decided it was time for me to be cool too. jamal was seemingly hated by all. I believed Jamal's all and sought to perceive and take into account darkly heard wisdom. jamal liked me, and he has never betrayed me. jamal hasn't spoken one conceivably bad word about me, and he is a genius with words. this makes me shudder. eventually I believed myself unworthy of representing jamal because I was autistic and shed the name, declaring it obsolete. I think jamal said "fuck jamal he is a retard", but it was in context, so it cannot be understood here.
i was of a hardline "stance" against anki and I took the name to mean that I was not using anki, the only one, who lived really in accordance with jamal
as jamal was at the time a great mocker of flashcarders, and I loved him for that, since no one else was, and it was me
I believed the thread was all idiots really. only some stars had intelligence
I feel like I assumed the name either shortly before, or during, a kotoba quiz on the web interface where quizmaster was challenging all to join. at the time, he was eagerly fought by all, since there was a powerful hivemind of idiots, since thread culture was attractive on the apparent rigor and advancement of doctrine, though it was weak. it is perhaps still weak. quizmaster had won a previous quiz or something. then I joined repping jamal when anki tensions were at all time high and beat qm
as jamal fan. I said you don't need anki and all that autism and that jamal is right. I knew something, I think, because jamal accepted me.
well, I found out about djt because I was a jp regular, but I was becoming dissatisfied with jp. I had come in its period of both great decline and yet acute memory of past. it was not like it is perhaps now, you were on top of living ruins, and you could catch a breath of the first spirit in the derelict dying
jp had styled itself to be that kind of place where greatly knowledgeable people would seriously discuss Japan from a "true" perspective, although it was predominantly false. all was false. all were memes unknown in Japan. a google search in Japanese, I later found out, defeated jps puffed up expertise
it was just a mind's creation, something longing and distanced, by a bunch of westerners, who had perfected that make-believe of living in the real thing
but they succeeded at making jp seem impossibly elite, outreaching to old internet, THAT kind of elite, where you're scared to post
it was perhaps slightly alive at the time, tantalizingly so.
I wanted to become even more genuine, so I took up Japanese. unlike many. to me taking up English was already a deeply exotic project, since I could access jp
well I'm just ranting. please guide me if you need something

something that I think odd is as if my total failure to directly influence anyone. seemingly, no one adopted my cherished methods, and I have motivated some to start using anki instead, completely against my intent. I've just been a curiosity about which tall rumors have been made, such that I read the dictionary to become good

is there something else besides tae kim or sakubi that will teach me particles, i can't. I read a japanese sentence and by the time i get to the verb i forget what the rest was i just read, is this why jap language is so fast? so they can get to the verb?

>>45220668
i didn't understand cure dolly so i read sakubi and look up stuff on https://core6000.neocities.org/dojg/

>>45022929
it's a for fun thing bro, as many as you can handle without burning yourself out on it
early on don't be surprised when you take 4+ hours on a single page but by week 5 you would be taking 10-20 mins per page assuming you keep up on grammar reps off cure dolly and sakubi
and that's assuming you're slow and a brainlet, for a turbo autist they can probably reach that point in a week

>>45010268
>assuming i spend no more than 5 minutes a day
probably 3 decades
jokes aside whipping out kana and the basics of grammar using shit like the sakubi guide shouldn't take you longer than 2 hours, upon which you can start reading by MTLing kanji definitions off kotobank or something
the hardest part of japanese is just switching your brain to not-english mode, once you start learning without translating them to english first it's an extremely smooth process

>>44900184
Just do the usual.
>Learn kana, don't even worry about nailing it to perfection, just "good enough", this takes 1-2 days.
>Skim a grammar guide like sakubi, and only the basics, you will use it as a textbook for years: https://sakubi.neocities.org/
>Learn the first 2 grades of joyo kanji, again only to "good enough", takes 3-4 days.
>Get started on reading, go back to grammar guides or a dictionary whenever needed, which will be often.
>Repeat for like 2-5 years until N1.
Just remember to avoid hover dictionaries and j*sho because the databases are compromised, just JP > JP dictionaries instead, MTL if you have to.