/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

>>6788865
A couple more pages to go and then we're good.

>>6788864

>>6788863

>>6788862

>>6788859

>>6788856

>>6788850

>>6788849
The Good End picks up exactly where the Bad End leaves off (the Chadwick Victory Screen)

Getting fairly close to finally finishing my polished, complete entry for round 3 (The Good End). Will post what I have so far.

Link is to the Bad End:
https://imgur.com/a/AKUimLD

The real beauty of team Chad was there was a pretty solid silent understanding for each others characters. No drama, not even a lot of Chad exclusive conversation. Just good work and good vibes. Streamlined.

>>6744862
>Round 3. Almost everyone left it all out on the field. Maximum crossovers.

>Favorite OC
Impossible question. Alaisa, Maiden4, Turtloli, Chuckson, Leuca… such a contextual question.

>Favorite Submission
TBD

>OTP
Kevin x Dragon Lady

>>6730836
If I’m remembering correctly, there were certain matches where abstentions made a significant difference, especially in round 2. Huge morale killer, I think. There should definitely be a discussion about how to limit them. One per crab may be a good start.

>>6730837
I think one of the reasons there is a thread/discord tension is that GM timetable ran on thread lifespan. So there was an economy of posting (those inconsistent deadlines again) that wasn’t conducive to the thread vitality we want.

>>6730823
Understandable. I suppose you could always just use discord to directly collab with your theoretical matchup if you felt the need, avoid the larger forum.

Yeah, I think crab2 was definitely longer than anyone expected. Round 3 took more than a month. Hard to say what crab3 would look like. The good news is you have a whole ass year to figure it out, because that’s when crab would hypothetically start!

>>6730815
I’d definitely disagree with that. It’s been fun the past few years harvesting the cool folks from 4chan through the various discords, all a grand filtering process. If the cost is irritating a certain type of person then all the better. The classic 4chan schizo actually has no ability to disrupt crab, BECAUSE we can select from the thread and prune as we go on discord. That’s awesome. I think crab should be selfish in that way. So long as we keep pruning, we keep winning. Applies to running and organizing too. Again, it’s only the 2nd tourney. Step by step, things get better and we make more acquaintances/peers/colleagues/friends. That’s all I have to say on the subject. The loss is worth the gain.

>>6730773
I wouldn’t have bothered if it was a 4chan only event. It’s the deeper social collaboration that makes crab particularly exciting. Made some new friends, was moved by great artists. I think it would be trading certain kinds of folks either way. I prefer it this way, personally. The intentional approach made for spectacular entries far and above my expectations. Crab doesn’t have to be all inclusive. Like I said, I support a gatekeeping effort. I don’t begrudge thread-only folks, but I think discord + thread is optimal. The disconnect between the two is definitely an issue, but an easily fixed one. It’s logistics.

>>6730757
This crab took about 3-4 months. I should clarify that we have folks of all technical skill levels. The difficulty:demanding nature comes from the growing expectation of more intentional storytelling.

You certainly can drop out. No harm no foul. I’d say it’s ideally something you would decide sooner rather than later for obvious reasons. But there’s no penalty. I almost dropped myself.

The deadlines were pretty beefy. 2-4 weeks minimum. It was fairly organic. Lots of temperature taking.

As for gentleman’s agreements—not only was there very clean collaboration and communication between most matchups, but lots of folks collaborated on the same animation. Sadly, most animations lost convincingly to traditional comics, so draw your own conclusions.

I’d tentatively suggest reconsidering discord should you choose to join us next time. With aggressive gatekeeping, things have been far more reasonable than most other servers I’ve been in. Good folks. Not necessary, though, if you’d prefer the 4chan wilderness.

>>6730747
3. This should go without saying, but the Cardinal sin of crab is to not take your opponent seriously. The opposing OC is YOUR responsibility. If you misrepresent your opponent such that they become uncharacteristically unappealing, you will lose, and you should lose. The capital challenge of crab is improvising a self contained drama. The best entries not only understand their opponent’s character, but their understanding allows them to portray that character with as much if not more integrity and appeal than the opponent. Great examples include every Carolyn entry and Bellboy’s round 2 and 3. Carolyn and Bellboy never ceded their place or dignity in their entries, but they elevated their competition. The rising tide raised all ships. That is the contest of imagination that matters.

4. The question of quality and polish is probably the toughest call a crab contestant will make. Regardless of how forgiving the deadline is, you will almost certainly waste as much time as you can get away with. So no matter how much time you’re given, you’ll still have to struggle with how clean and professional your entry should be. Ardi proved pretty decisively, particularly in round 3, that technical polish is appreciated but by no means necessary. Manarchy, Carolyn, Vivian—most of the jobbers lost to scratchier works that hit harder or were more narratively potent. Your audience is not looking as hard as you are. They won’t see the mistakes. Their brains will clean up your art so long as it is intentional looking. What your audience will not forgive is being bored. My great shame was that 2/3 of my submissions were barely finished. The line work was clean, but they were invisibly half assed. And that could have/should have sunk me. Other crabs weren’t so lucky and their FINISHED professional looking masterpieces went down. your comic is more than the sun of its parts. You are collaborating with the reader. They will meet you half way. Spend time wisely.

>>6730727
I get what you mean, but to be blunt: Let them. Cannot control them. The discord has a channel for suggestions. The discord can take care of itself. I don’t understand why people cannot just ignore *obvious* mental cases. I’ve been able to do it for 16+ years. It’s really easy. The threads can and should be an intake valve, and we should be able to adjust the flow. If someone can’t ignore a schizo, they shouldn’t join crab. Basic social skill.

This is a 4chan event because most if not every contestant came from 4chan threads. 4chan threads are horrific organizing structures. It doesn’t work for something like crab, it’s too complex.

I have some general tips and advice for current and future crabs, too. Much more positive and interesting

1. While storytelling fundamentals are by far the best way of winning rounds and having fun (plot, dialogue, color/mood) , I think there are other more political creative choices that make a huge difference: including as many other characters as is appropriate/practical. There was a time when people assumed/envisioned crab tourneys as one page submissions, just comfy one shots. That isn’t the case anymore. Crab is a collaborative storytelling event. Improvisational. The more you cultivate an ensemble cast, the more excited people become—and the more interested they are in seeing your vision play out. Bernard excelled because his creator incorporated team dynamics and inter-team engagement. Bernard was never the black hole of attention. The event itself became an organic process, developing the whole organism. Bernard provided a compelling perspective of that organism’s growth.

2. Action choreography, especially anything related to fighting or competition. Much like in writing scenes, the actual play by play of a conflict is very VERY boring. It is the clash of concepts that grabs attention. I found many of the 3rd round entries to be far too long BECAUSE so much time was spent drawing shot after shot after shot of the literal fight itself. The round 1 ping pong match was interminable. Great fundamentals, all of which became meaningless after eons of back and forth panels. Nathan vs Cannongirl in round 3 had a similar issue. So many beautiful drawings… too many. Way too many. The best entries balanced literal action with subliminal conflict. Penelope vs Fernando in round 2. Balkari vs Everyone in round 3. Every M4 submission—the intrigue is in the matchup, not the action. The latter serves the former.

>>6730710
Selfishly, I disagree. At this stage of the game, let the thread be a visible forum. The discord is tranquil. Protect the discord, let the thread be the strainer.

>>6730698
3. Deadlines should be more rigorously enforced. I personally abused the generosity of the GM in extensions, but while the deliverables were ultimately exceptional, I think lots of entries were casualties of fluctuating deadlines and uneven expectations. Spar said it well. I think it’s good to give a generous amount of time, but extensions tend to disrupt workflows. This also affects voting. There was a criminal amount of abstention in voting. There was a question of effort vs polish vs technical skill vs personality vs entertainment, and every entry, no matter which advantage they had or did not have, suffered because someone couldn’t bother to make a tough call. Consistent deadlines (simultaneous submissions) is justice. Fair to everyone. Down with abstentions. Make the call.

4.The actual content/format should be *encouraged* to be uniform. A comic vs an animation is a ridiculous choice to have to make, especially given .3’s implications. Manarchy’s performance downfall was almost exclusively rooted in its insistence on arguably the most difficult art form, not only forcing lethal creative decisions and sacrifices, but giving voters an unreasonably difficult and asymmetrical choice. Gif panels are one thing. An animatic vs a comic is rough. I had many moments where I wanted to reward the obvious impressive amount of effort put into entries, but they often just weren’t as interesting or entertaining or compelling as their humbler counterpart. For me, Alexis vs Chadwick was the epitome of that. I’m shocked I managed to win, and I almost think it’s bullshit Alexis lost round 2, but after a lot of thought, I actually can see why—there’s a strong argument to be made that despite Pink anon being an objectively better artist, objectively a tremendous talent, objectively finishing and polishing a complete product, her entry ultimately wasn’t as “””entertaining.””” Manarchy unintentionally wasted time. They could have won.

There’s a desire for feedback/commentary, so I’ll give some thoughts. At the risk of laying it on thick, I do want to start by reiterating that G/GM honestly did a fantastic job wrangling 40+ online spazoids into a several months long art event including OCs (ego traps). This is only the second such event, so I think most critiques should bear that in mind—constructive future considerations. I don’t think G deserves any harsh criticism. He did his job well, and, I think, was even accommodating to a fault.

Broad Comments:

1. The biggest procedural issue is bringing everyone on the same page of expectations. Some people came packing full narratives and arcs. Others had a one shot scene. After two full Crab Tourneys, I think it’s become more and more obvious that the tendency is toward more robust meta narratives and character arcs across rounds. This is difficult, especially when dealing other people’s OCs. Crab is NOT a casual thing. It’s fairly demanding, especially if you want to succeed. A lot of people came in and immediately were in over their head—some in technical skill and others in time commitment and effort expectations. More on this in a bit, although Ardi may be more succinct.

2. It cannot be overstated how critical it is for crab artists to swallow their pride and take a broad perspective on what is actually being done on crab tourney—there was an embarrassing degree of drama that came almost exclusively from excessive attention given to juvenile discourse. Anonymous artists on 4chan on Discord. Read the room. Know who you’re dealing with. Talk like a decent human being but more importantly IGNORE the bullshit that freely flows from these people. You don’t need to respond. You don’t need to engage. You need to draw. You need to collaborate. You need to keep your word. It was exhausting. Freeze the children out. This applies to accepting future crab contestants—hire slow, fire quickly. Gatekeep the hell out of this thing.

>>6723777
AND I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT TOO. IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU MEDDLING LOLIS.

>>6722479
This is Gus

https://imgur.com/a/aQOa3yr

Surreptitiously posting the uncolored Bad End of my entry. Took out all dialogue to protect final product. I think the action speaks for itself.