Comics Industry

[Anonymous No.7289373]

Will it ever be competitive with the Japanese manga industry? Can comics artists and writers ever have a stable, luxurious career?

[Anonymous No.7289644]

>>7289373
I believe so. Although it's only going to be after the industry largely divests itself from the Big 2, DC and Marvel. Both of them do nothing but hold back the Western comics industry, especially in the United States. They're the main reason why Demon Slayer was able to outsell the entire American comics industry by itself in 2021. You can't even blame the Comic Code Authority anymore at this point. The big boys of the American industry are just dogshit at their jobs, but because they're both owned by Warner Bros. and Disney respectively, neither suffer the consequences they should for their creative bankruptcy and dogshit business practices by going under. They're essentially just adult daycares and IP sharecropping companies now.

There's lots of great shit going on at Image, Boom, IDW, Dynamite, Oni Press, etc. Webcomics have been steadily gaining more relevancy over the decades, and some fascinating shit is happening with indies. Apparently, some indie comic creators who became millionaires with their comics, Eric July and Ethan Van Sciver, are having a civil of sorts? Not completely sure what the deal is there, but the Western comics industry is definitely changing a lot outside of Marvel and DC, who are both growing increasingly irrelevant despite their IPs being the most popular they've ever been.

[Anonymous No.7289654]

>>7289373
The industry is defined by its comics. So focus on making good comics. I am just recalling the Scott Pilgrim comic which was very popular and created a franchise of itself . I don't really like Scott Pilgrim but you see what Im saying

[Anonymous No.7289662]

>>7289373
They did previously and will again, and I think that comics crashing and burning in america (because it's really only the american industry we're talking about - and the mainstream companies at that) will be a good thing for western comics overall (american comic artists included).

Too much attention is given to the poorly written stagnant superhero genre, a genre which should be aimed at children, but has been something akin to 'grim-dark' for the last 20 or 30 years - geez I wonder why kids and young adult aren't into comics? It's almost as if the industry hasn't been making any content for them?
Ironically the Comic Code Authority could have been said to be good for the industry, because at least there was wholesome content meant to grab kids attention and get them into comics, so that kid comic book fans may become adult comic book fans.

Another aspect is the positive influence manga should have on the western comic book industry; a greater diversity in genre. Honestly the comic book authors probably didn't need to be shown this, but the publishers themselves need to learn that a comic about cooking can become popular, or that a comic about office workers can become popular, etc.

Anyway, the American and western comic book industry is just a couple of big hits away from basically being back on even footing with manga again.
If you want to support western comics without supporting the dip shits from the big two or the big two adjacent, get some indie comics; there's still plenty of great stuff.

[Anonymous No.7289683]

>>7289373
Who drew this

[Anonymous No.7289724]

>>7289662
Interesting, what indie comics would you recommend?

[Anonymous No.7289738]

>>7289373
Be the change you want to see.

[Anonymous No.7289825]

>>7289373
most mangaka are poor you moron. they are slave labor used and abused for IP production that shonen jump/other yakuza owned businesses can control and profit from. until recently, most comic book artists in the mainstream did quite well when factoring in their private commissions and art sales. many millionaires came out of it. indie comics/crowd funding in american industry is quite profitable for many artists and can make stable living off few thousand dedicated fans and couple books a year type of stuff. japanese mangaka do not have this luxury and some of most successful are poor in comparison to people youd consider trash failures in american comic industry. stop sucking japanese cock you fucking retard. tracing 3d models isnt art. same rehashed isekai/slice of life/sports/battle manga is not art. its not good. its all trash. just because current comic industry is shittier doesnt make manga good.

[Anonymous No.7290129]

>>7289683
Roger Ibanez

[Anonymous No.7290243]

>>7289825
>most mangaka are poor you moron
wut
Only in the sense that most authors are poor because their shit doesn't sell. The ones whose work do sell are not poor. We have the numbers, it's not some ambiguous thing.
And the authors own their IPs and also profit from them.

[Anonymous No.7290251]

>>7289825
Lmao, westroon, you are literally Jewish livestock saying that isntkuza controls the entertainment over there? Lol

[Anonymous No.7291518]

>>7289373
It's more likely that manga will simply die out before comics ever catch up to it. Young kids in japland want to scroll on screens instead of read just like anywhere else right now.

[Anonymous No.7291522]

>>7291518
proof?

[Anonymous No.7291599]

>>7291522
https://japanamerica.blogspot.com/2018/05/is-manga-dying-in-japan.html
https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00102/
I'd link a chart about manga sales but they seem to all be measuring in yen and not in units sold, no adjustments for inflation. The general gist is that physical manga sales have tanked dramatically. Digital sales supposedly "make up" for the drop, but theres no info on how digital manga is priced and sold. Doesn't count like, user accounts on manga apps or how many times mangas are accessed digitally. For all we know there are less japs reading manga but paying more to read it. I predict that manga will go the way of comics, where wealthy autists will prop it up and gradually force the product to be less appealing to general audiences until it suffers the same fate as comics today.
Captcha: HARPY

[Anonymous No.7291633]

>>7291599
>article from 6 years ago pointing to print manga sales dropping while web manga sales rise
>article from 11 years ago which has next to nothing to do with manga
Not the strongest evidence.
Now, that said, I don't think "print manga sales are dropping" is at all a controversial statement. However, conflating "print manga is in decline" with "manga is dying" is jumping to conclusions. Just because kids aren't buying manga from physical stores as much does not mean they're going to read scroll comics instead. They could just be reading the exact same manga except on the online app instead. Which makes sense, it's just way more convenient. Judging by the way hit manga still sell in the millions of copies, I really don't think manga's going anywhere any time soon. Worst case scenario print will stop being the default method and digital releases will be the primary form of manga... which is not "dying" but merely changing distribution methods, same way movies aren't "dead" since online distribution eclipsed movie ticket sales.

[Anonymous No.7291654]

>>7291633
I never said it'd be soon, and I would like to see some data on actual digital manga access domestically in japan like I said. All I've found is measured in profit, but that can be misleading. Inflation, cost of digital subscriptions, etc are all variables in why the total profits in the market seem about the same despite the steep decline in print manga sales. Want to see some hard numbers on user accounts for digital reading or how many times a digital manga is purchased/accessed to read, but the fact that the concrete customer numbers are deliberately avoided in the data could be telling on itself. No concrete numbers at the moment but you can extrapolate what the Japanese youth demographic is doing pretty much by looking at any other youth demographics in peer countries. Gen z and gen a all over the first world are plugged into social media more than anything else. Japanese people aren't magically immune to the dopamine from getting likes. It's an inherently predatory system on human nature. You can look at how crazy popular Korean pop culture has become among young Japanese people. Japanese video game channels get millions of views every day for playing shitty western meme games like Garten of Banban and other flaming garbage. I regularly watch a Japanese guy who streams himself reacting to foreign memes. Every upload gets 100k views minimum. Everyone is homogenizing and the fact is that gen z has some of the lowest reading comprehension in recent history. They're just not good readers and that can extend into manga. again, not necessarily soon, but if the trend continues, manga and comics will both be niche, gutted mediums some day.
https://psmag.com/ideas/theres-a-crisis-of-reading-among-generation-z/

[Anonymous No.7291684]

>>7289373
Majority of comic artists just drew porn, even in the golden age. Even Moebius who was incredibly successful and influential drew a lot of porn commissions. Look at the private auctions for big shots like Frazetta etc there's a lot of raunchy shit. They made comics to advertise their property but what they really sold was porn. Of course it was tamer back then. i used to believe that comics were ruined by porn but the truth is that you didn't need convoluted proxy advertising for porn anymore when you could just make some "fan" art and open a Patreon. I thought that the diversity shit factored in as well but the truth is that those were simply the people who were left behind and they managed to take over specifically because those who'd draw actual comics had no need anymore for comics to sell porn and with the narrowing profit margins and shift in media consumption it made no sense anymore. Comics will always be bigger in Asia simply because of currency. Assuming that Asia will be on par with the West economically (I mean in terms of individuals' buying power) stand assured that comics will die there too and the diversity schizos will pick the bones exactly like in the West.

[Anonymous No.7291691]

>>7291654
This is also 100% due to porn. Porn is the elephant in the room, nobody wants to admit it especially on this site but the truth is that porn is a cancer that destroys everything that is adjacent to it, it's a drug and peoplebecome absorbed in it. Why read a dumb story when you can watch porn? Why pay for art when you can pay for porn? If you want someone to blame, blame the people who own the porn industry.
>inb4 christcuck

[Anonymous No.7291714]

>>7289373
In America? No
See >>7289644

No one reads in the West. Even if the the capeshit industry were to crash and burn the West has no model for supporting lesser series until they become popular like Manga does.
Manga is published in Magazines where popular series push sales while newer series attempt to establish a foothold of a fanbase. In the west, you're either indie publishing or going through a publisher that has no similar model that exposes your work to their larger reader base.

[Anonymous No.7291840]

>>7289825
you're both wrong and possibly retarded anyone printed for time in jump is getting paid far better than anyone in the west at dc/marvel for page rate, and shueisha gives a higher page rate just for entry level than marvel gives people who have been doing it for 10 years nowadays

[Anonymous No.7291854]

>>7291840
Uh... page rate is pretty much the only way they're not getting paid as well as dc/marvel. dc/marvel will pay you a couple hundred USD a page, because that's all you're getting, no royalties. Shuiesha will pay you way less per page, less than half of dc/marvel, but that's because you're making far, far more than that in royalties.

[Anonymous No.7292062]

>>7291840
>>7291854
and 99.9999999% of manga industry get paid slave wages. they do not make a living wage. they are praying they make it big/wokring multiple jobs. your also ignoring they have to pay their own assistant. it isnt free. they usually have multiple assistants doing inks, backgrounds, etc. they usually have ot rent a studio for it (basically small apartment, not some office building) or have a larger apartment they are willign to use as communal space already. you are a retarded weeb. shut the fuck up. some make fortunes on manga. its like saying all youtubers make millions or just make only fans and youll be rich if a woman. manga industry is not healthy in any way, shape or form. its just as shit as americans.

[Anonymous No.7292199]

>>7291691
I agree with you if you extend the concept of porn to more than just the sexual. If you count any content that's created purely for the sake of lizard brain stimulation, without anything substantial to it except "waow cool" then we literally live in Porn World. 90% of everything we look at now is some kind of porn where we chase some kind of chemical high. Watching people wreck their cars for the adrenaline rush. Posting pictures of your every meal so people will look at it and feel hunger and envy. Plain old thirst traps galore. Who wants to read under these conditions? Who wants to even think? Why should we? Chemicals feel good. Introspection feels bad. Thinking is boring. Tickle my hindbrain instead until I'm debasing myself in everything I do. I can't disagree with you, but it affects more than manga.

[Anonymous No.7292206]

>>7289373
>laughs in bande dessinée

[Anonymous No.7292245]

>>7291691
>Why read a dumb story when you can watch porn? Why pay for art when you can pay for porn?
cuz i already jerked off today and i aint that horny nigga, not everyone is some hypersexual wanker

[Anonymous No.7292504]

>>7292062
Nah, manga industry's pretty good. The biggest problem with it is just the extremely demanding hours, which isn't ubiquitous. If you don't want to work weekly manga deadlines, then work monthly manga. If monthly is still too much for you, then work a quarterly or bi-monthly manga, and if you still can't cut it then work in h-manga. Hentai manga doesn't even really have deadlines.
You say it's "slave wages", but it's not a wage at all. You get paid when the work is delivered and you get paid what royalties it earns. How much and how often you're paid is determined by how your work sells and how quickly you turn in work (and if you're serialized then the latter isn't something you need to think about). It's a merit-based system. And the page rate, while it's pretty tight to live in tokyo and hire assistants on, for just one person living in a cheap apartment outside of the cities? It's very comfortable. For example, the page rate I get each time I finish something for my magazine would last me over 6 months in japan by living fairly frugally. Just the page rate on its own. And I'm still a newcomer on the starting rate, that will go up.
t. published in a hentai mag.

[Anonymous No.7292897]

>just work in porn! everyone loves porn! you can draw gay porn, furry porn or loli porn there's a lot of choice!
fucking faggot read Manga Poverty

[Anonymous No.7292901]

>>7291654
>but if the trend continues, manga and comics will both be niche, gutted mediums some day.
Already happened to webcomics as a matter of fact

[Anonymous No.7292925]

>>7292897
Or any of the other things I listed. Did you want me to lie about what I do? Okay I make heckin wholesome romance manga.
>hey primary source, shut up and look at my secondary source
You mean the book about people going into a bunch of debt on the gamble that they'll get big and falling on their face instead? Shame it didn't work out for them, but you shouldn't be going into debt for this. There are ways to work in manga without having it be a stupid gamble.

[Anonymous No.7293151]

>>7292901
To be fair webcomics fumbled their chance to be something big and ended up known as glorified newspaper comics. I've heard webtoons operates in the red and fakes a lot of its popularity despite some Korean webcomics getting anime adaptions. But people just plain not reading anything anymore is a big contributor.

[Anonymous No.7293192]

>>7289373
no because western comics have an over 50 year history of being anti-consumer

the market has been on life support for a long time
and writers aren't really there off merit

[Anonymous No.7293361]

Recommend me some actually good comics. Preferably no capeshit if possible

[Anonymous No.7293412]

>>7293361
Hellboy

[Anonymous No.7293442]

>>7293361
The Ogre Gods, Beauty, both by Hubert Boulard

[Anonymous No.7293870]

>>7289644
As an individual comic creator, what can I do to revitalize the health of the American ('Murica!) Comics Industry?

[Anonymous No.7293928]

>>7293870
Make a good comic and become hugely successful from it. Making the comic is comparatively easy compared to becoming successful, which is almost entirely dependent on luck - more so when we're talking about industry changing success.

[Anonymous No.7293932]

>>7289373
>Can comics artists and writers ever have a stable, luxurious career?
Yes, but you have to be smart about it.

You need rock-solid skills, at all aspects of the craft, including commercial, to be able to effortlessly think outside of the box, and to display genuine maturity in all your choices.

Theoretically, almost anyone can do almost anything, but it requires heavy work. In particular, as far as I've saw, the maturity part is what people struggle the most with, but it's kinda crucial. Throwing lines elegantly is just about repetition. Building a good product, that's on another level.

[Anonymous No.7293933]

>>7293928
graphic novel? Monthly serialization? give it away online for free? Which avenues?

[Anonymous No.7293989]

>>7292206
In France, manga takes 80% of the market vs 20% BD. BD creators are adapting more and more manga mannerisms and some are even outright making manga. Manfra exists and Radiant not only had good reviews in Japan but also an anime with several seasons.

BD will die in your lifetime.

[Anonymous No.7294035]

>>7293933
Any or, really. Homestuck was a defining and incredibly popular webcomic, and it was free.
Admittedly though, the avenues for comic distribution and getting it in front of people seem to have become more shit than just making your own site and praying people will stumble upon it.
I don't know how webtoons has made things worse, despite being so popular and a central hub for comics, but its big hits don't have nearly the traction of the big hits prior to webtoon's inception.

So honestly pushing your webcomic hard on social media like twitter seems like the best bet at the moment.