/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.7096781]

I've been experimenting with drawing faces from different angles. I Used The 3d model head that comes with Clip Studio paint to help me draw this face. The question I have is this.

Which one of these faces looks better? The one on the left accurately follows the contours of the 3D head. The other one is inaccurate but i think it looks better but i could be wrong. I have been staring at this drawing for a while and that could be skewing my perception. What do you think?

[Anonymous No.7096784]

>>7096781
They both look like ass.
3D model one is stiff and dull.
Stylized one retarded.

[Anonymous No.7096785]

I'm trying to go with an anime style. Anime style is heavily dependent on the 'pointy chin'. but from lower angles the jawline inverts and we loose that shape. You can sort of force the shape while ignoring anatomy.

The problem is that by changing the shapes to feel more anime you end up loosing the likeness of the character somewhat.

[Anonymous No.7096793]

>>7096784
I've never seen an anime face drawn well from this angle that wasn't at least slightly stylized. I've collected a bunch of screenshots from various anime and they all look bad and off model. The only ones I've seen that look kind of good are the ones that take a more stylized approach.

[Anonymous No.7096797]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7096799]

>>7096793

I've noticed that artists overall tend to avoid this angle like the plague. Even when I found these screenshots they were split second moments that quickly transitioned into something else. Like the animators knew not to venture below the chin.

[Anonymous No.7096804]

>>7096793
Reveals the limitations/innate inferiority of the anime style. Doesn't make sense because the japs are subhuman.

[Anonymous No.7096806]

>>7096793
it will never looks well, even real photo from this angle doesn't look well

[Anonymous No.7096807]

I tried to mess around with it and it wanted to make me shoot myself.

[Anonymous No.7096812]

>>7096804
That is probably the best conclusion to this. Anime was only meant to be viewed from frontal angles and not from above/below. There is no 'making it look good'. The only good advice is to avoid ideas that force you to draw characters faces from this kind of angle.
>>7096806
good point.

[Anonymous No.7096818]

>>7096807
Imagine being a woman.
Imagine that it is your fate to one day to look up and witness this debacle of an angle during sex.
No wonder women hate men.

[Anonymous No.7096822]

>>7096781
Definitely the one on the left, no question. The right one has no sense of form and does not "look better" in any way. The first thing that came to mind when looking at the right was picrel, but maybe that's the ""easthetic"" you're going for

[Anonymous No.7096824]

>>7096822
So it definitely does not look good. My mind is playing tricks on me confirmed.

[Anonymous No.7096826]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7096828]

>>7096826
What's everyone's consensus on this anons approach? My mind is burned out and I cannot give opinions on taste at this point. Is this better?

[Anonymous No.7096834]

>>7096826
This will only work without shading and color.
As soon you try to cel shade this it will turn into a skin balloon.

[Anonymous No.7096836]

>>7096781
I did this drawing and I feel like this is about the limit of where you can push the anime style without it breaking.

If i rotated this further the nose would loose all its depth(it already looks snubbed) and I'd start seeing underneath the chin too much. But even this feels kind of off.

[Anonymous No.7096837]

>>7096781
I did this drawing and I feel like this is about the limit of where you can push the anime style without it breaking.
If I'd rotated this further the nose would loose all its depth(it already looks snubbed) and I'd start seeing underneath the chin too much. But even this feels kind of off.

[Anonymous No.7096840]

>>7096824
The things that does it is the shading. The right can look good without the chin contour accentuated, but the shadows still have to follow the implied chin. That ambiguous area around the lower jaw ends up reading as the chin and/or bleeding into the neck.

[Anonymous No.7096846]

>>7096781
don't think there's a style where this looks good

[Anonymous No.7096868]

Depends on the level of stylization you are going for

[Anonymous No.7096871]

>>7096806
like this anon said. there's just some head angles that look retarded and there's really no point in learning em unless you're an animator

[Anonymous No.7096883]

>>7096781
>easthetic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5s8J-fMneP4

[Anonymous No.7096895]

>>7096812
really? isn't anime infamous for it's over the top camera angles, it's not like western cartoons that tend to be frozen in 3/4th views

[Anonymous No.7096904]

>>7096834
then omit the shadow when coloring if it makes the composition more awkward

[Anonymous No.7096906]

>>7096784
>the accurate by definition 3d model looks like ass

so what is the point of construction?

[Anonymous No.7096908]

>>7096904
That's dodging the issue.

Answer the question and shade it in.

[Anonymous No.7096910]

>>7096904
>then omit the shadow
And look like ass.
It is ass. It will always be ass.
This angle is ass.

[Anonymous No.7096914]

>>7096781
hide does two faces like that in this video.. so copy him I guess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWEKKwKZtWU

[Anonymous No.7096921]

i dont drawl anime

[Anonymous No.7096922]

>>7096904
Same dilemma

[Anonymous No.7096925]

>>7096804
t.a member of g*d's ((chosen)) people

[Anonymous No.7096927]

[Anonymous No.7096931]

its telling there isn't a single photo of a real person doing the angle itt

[Anonymous No.7096932]

>>7096781
This view is evidence of the flawed nature of the demiurge's creation. Futility. Futility everywhere. The most graceful woman will forever be brutish from this angle, the most handsome man an awkward beast.

This is because our universe is fundamentally flawed. In the higher domain there are no such flawed angles. We are infinitely beautiful creatures observing ourselves in a fractal of ever deepening bliss and perfection.

[Anonymous No.7096933]

>>7096781
Left for men, right for women. Either way you need more proportional study, keep it up

[Anonymous No.7096934]

>>7096908
>>7096922
if you over-constrain the problem, you will end up with suboptimal solutions. if you must absolutely have this head pose and view constraint, then those are your options for a shadow, congrats. pick the least worst option to you (for me it's no shadow)

[Anonymous No.7096936]

>>7096931
this is specifically about stylization. It would be easy to draw a face from any particular angle. the question is how to make it look aesthetically pleasing.

[Anonymous No.7096937]

No one likes this angle, it's a very unattractive angle, girls especially hate this angle when they're taking pictures

[Anonymous No.7096939]

The consensus seems to be "fuck that angle".

[Anonymous No.7096940]

>>7096934
what does your precious loomis have to say about it? Surely construction is the answer to everything?

[Anonymous No.7096943]

>>7096940
i could care less about that. did my responses seem to indicate otherwise?

[Anonymous No.7096947]

>>7096932
this

[Anonymous No.7096951]

>>7096940
nta, but construction IS the answer to everything. Everything except appeal, style, gesture and composition.

This angle is inherently ugly. No amount of construction will make it 'right.' No gesture will breathe life into it, no composition will frame it as something of beauty worthy of consideration. No style can solve the problem, because the problem is unsolvable. In art and in life, this angle is what we call "fetid."

There's a reason we don't have many selfies and photos of people taken in this angle, either. Observe this "funny" picture of handsome singer-songwriter Devin Townsend. Note the immediate feelings of disgust that bubble up from the depths of your artistic soul.

There are some things that do not need to be depicted in art. They can be, most certainly. But that doesn't mean they should be.

[Anonymous No.7096961]

>>7096781
Omitting the jawline works stylistically for cartoons but tbdesu I like when the jawline is drawn it looks cool, but I understand why it puts people off.

[Anonymous No.7096965]

>>7096961
yeah it works for that angle, but not for ops because it's just an ugly angle.

[Anonymous No.7096968]

>>7096904
>>7096781
>>7096922

If you open the mouth, you can sort of offset the 'long chin' effect. But this limits you to situations where the character is eating/shouting.

[Anonymous No.7096973]

>>7096826
>>7096828
This works only because of the roundness of the jawline. Before, that area read as the chin due to the inaccurate shading combined with the 3/4 perspective. With this version, you're going off-model by making her chubbier, but the lack of detail doesn't lead the eye as astray. In this version, the ambiguous contour actually helps the form, because it no longer resembles something that it's not. Basically, your eyes aren't being fooled in the "wrong way" anymore.

I would use this approach with caution, however. Unless you have a firm understanding of the entire form of the skull, you may start to drift in your accuracy of depicting contours and end up with more cases of landmarks being mistaken for one another like this.

[Anonymous No.7096974]

>>7096968
Now draw her hands cupped in front of her and a big horse cock dripping semen into her mouth.

[Anonymous No.7096998]

>>7096974
fuck off to your discord vaush you obese waste of oxygen

[Anonymous No.7097001]

>This retard STILL hasn't figured out how to draw a chin

[Anonymous No.7097003]

>>7096931

[Anonymous No.7097004]

>>7096931
>>7097003

[Anonymous No.7097008]

>>7097004

[Anonymous No.7097009]

>>7097008

[Anonymous No.7097011]

>>7097003
Terrible, gross, offensive even.
>>7097004
Terrible, gross, offensive even.

[Anonymous No.7097028]

>>7096781
the secret right answer everyone is missing here is to not draw this angle unless you're going for a very specific tone (intimidation, admiration), like you're looking up to a statue of a great emperor
It's never going to work if you're trying to make someone look pretty

[Anonymous No.7097031]

This nigger deserves death holy fucking shit.

It's a fucking cartoon stop trying to enact realism to it and STOP IT with the oversexualization of beauty standards by claiming anything not to your comfort is "ugly". Only the most autistic roach would think this level of retardation.

[Anonymous No.7097035]

>>7097031
ngmi

[Anonymous No.7097036]

>>7097003
looks like shit
>>7097004
>>7097009
i feel like dudes can kinda get away with the angle because of the manly features?
>>7097008
not even the same angle

[Anonymous No.7097038]

>>7097031
Tell me you landscape or abstract work without telling me.

[Anonymous No.7097040]

>>7096904
>>7096922

[Anonymous No.7097042]

>A chin is manly
Are you a chink or something? White raced people have chins. And they are the most human and thus most correct depiction of humanity.

[Anonymous No.7097044]

>>7097028
If someone is worthy of intimidation or awe, like a great emperor, he would not show his nose holes or neck so flagrantly. The showing of one's holes and the display of one's neck is a submissive signal, therefore not intimidating, not impressive, and difficult to admire.

[Anonymous No.7097045]

>>7097038
Tell me you're non English without telling me you're non Emglish, ESL.

[Anonymous No.7097048]

>>7097036
It's definitely easier for men to get away with it because we can accept a certain degree of ugliness from men. But when you put a female/feminine face in that angle it often looks jarring. You have to soften the jaw as much as possible, sometimes relying entirely on the shadow and not using any lines at all. But even so it still feels odd.

[Anonymous No.7097052]

>>7097044
fuck off you moron, being looked down upon is a universal symbol of inferiority, you're literally psychically below someone
>The showing of one's holes and the display of one's neck is a submissive signal
No it's not you moron, displaying your body i.e not hiding away is a symbol of confidence since you're not afraid of getting attacked, we're not fucking apes

[Anonymous No.7097054]

>>7097048
I find it fascinating how nearly every regular human feature is deemed unacceptable on women though it explains why moeblobs are considered the ultimate form of beauty here

[Anonymous No.7097058]

>>7097052
>displaying your body i.e not hiding away is a symbol of confidence since you're not afraid of getting attacked, we're not fucking apes
Clearly you've never been an emperor irl

[Anonymous No.7097059]

>>7097045
>Tell me you're non English without telling me you're non Emglish, ESL.
Step off the high horse, it's looking pretty shaky.
Things can be visually unappealing (see: ugly) without sexualization ever playing a part. Why are you this ass pained over people having functional eyes?

[Anonymous No.7097063]

>>7097059
Because it doesn't fucking matter if you think something is ugly. Your brain is more ugly than someone that understand art isn't porno. It's expression. It tells a story. If your limit of story telling stops and breaks by a woman looking upwards and not at your manchild face, then you have severe autism.

[Anonymous No.7097065]

>>7097042
>when being white is the only thing you have

[Anonymous No.7097074]

>>7097065
>when being white is all you need

[Anonymous No.7097079]

>>7097074
cringe

[Anonymous No.7097081]

>>7097074
>>7097074
>>7097042

Does every fucking argument on 4chan have to devolve into race? Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.7097083]

>>7096793
Anime faces have extremely sharp jawlines, almost like a triangle, and they have no jowls at all. Naturally it'll look pretty different from a real person even before stylization

[Anonymous No.7097084]

>>7097081
>Jesus Christ
(((Jesus Christ))) you mean.

[Anonymous No.7097090]

>>7097063
Ok, I'm going to make a few things clear to you. You didn't quote a post. It's left up for the reader of your asshurt comment to determine on their own what the context is, and there's a massive fucking margin for error with the 70 replies ITT. Unless you're just bored and feel like farming replies, in which case you've won. Enjoy your prize.
Secondly, my brain isn't ugly because of any reason other than it being an unfortunately colored organ with a lot of vascularity. Even it could be drawn or painted in a way that brings some sort of visual interest.
I don't know if the description of something being "ugly" just hits you the wrong way, or if this is you overreaching and assuming the whole thread is talking about the best angles to see in drawn porn. I know that some expressions and angles are visually unappealing (or just outright repulsive in some cases-- not really the OP one, that's just a shading thing), and that you're being a triggered weirdo that didn't give context.

[Anonymous No.7097092]

>>7097084
jews don't into jesus though

[Anonymous No.7097094]

>>7097090
you are wasting your breath; just ignore the schizo troll instead

[Anonymous No.7097095]

How come no pros at all teach how to do this for manga styles? perhaps they realize it's a fools errand.

[Anonymous No.7097096]

>>7097083
What is the most appealing dorito to moe bleeb ratio, anon?

[Anonymous No.7097103]

>>7097090
>You didn't quote a post
Because, newfaggot, that always implies one of two scenarios
>A: They are responding to the creator of the thread
>B: It's replying to the nearest/latest comment said in the thread.
If it doesn't seem like it's refering to a post said one or two posts before the post in question, then, retard, it's clear they are talking to OP. Which I was. Since he didn't just fuck off after making the OP, and is currently shitting up his thread seething and pissing at any example with people looking upwards, anime faces not choosing to add shadows because you don't NEED them 24/7, and it all just seems like a forced narrative attempt to disown any and all attempt to make anime girls in that post " not appealing thus should never ever be drawn" due to his frustrating not accepting not being conventional/usual /= ugliness. It's just being a faggot for the sake of his annual Nippon cockworshipping cultism instead of actually drawing like he's supposed to be doing.

Not reading the rest of your slop ai tier post, because it's cleae you're just a tard that thinks just like OP, or IS OP and is mad I called you out on your Xenophobic bs projecting what anime/art should look like and what artist should only draw to appease your mental retardation.

[Anonymous No.7097107]

>>7096868
>>7096837
Both these look pretty good

[Anonymous No.7097109]

>>7097103
The artists with the least skill always yap the most.

[Anonymous No.7097111]

>>7097103
>blah blah blah
Go eat something. Unironically. You're just being pissy for the sake of it and looking for things to make you mad.

[Anonymous No.7097112]

>>7097074
based

[Anonymous No.7097113]

>>7097040
The entire point of this is the angle of the chin (more specifically, the point at which the tilt of the chin is passing the jawline), simply moving it upwards is not going to cut it.

>>7097048

[Anonymous No.7097126]

>>7096781
that's an easy fix

[Anonymous No.7097132]

for me it just you can get away with the stylization when drawing anime. there are no absolute rule and you just draw with not enough too obvious. that's when you make your art iconic.

there are nothing wrong when drawing long chin, misplace mouth, long face,wide face,wide eyes or etc.
if you know what you're doing. just try to make it appeal and not too obvious.

remember that there're no absolute rules when drawing anime.

but if you're drawing for realistic, sure it's best to follow the rules , the measure, the range

[Anonymous No.7097137]

>>7097036
It's beacuse it's the blowjob angle

[Anonymous No.7097146]

>>7097132
What manga/character is that? referring to the girls in the bottom.

[Anonymous No.7097148]

>>7097146
mato seihei no dorei

[Anonymous No.7097168]

>>7097132
So what you're saying is that anime is like detroit: no order, no reason, no constraints, just niggers and junkies, niggers and junkies everywhere.

[Anonymous No.7097178]

>>7097168
It must be really sad to be born as an amerimutt

[Anonymous No.7097180]

>>7097126
Now it makes my pp hard

[Anonymous No.7097298]

>>7097132
Honestly, as an appreciator of various anime styles, many of these issues still bother me. I think that the reason we've got so many strange concessions to "the style" these days is because abstractions that early anime and manga art used got rehashed so incestuously and without so much as a second thought. That top right image is a total fucking mess. Also, holy esl.

[Anonymous No.7097299]

I hate sidemouth
I hate nonesense noses
I hate non euclidean head tilt
Still like my weeb drawings tho

[Anonymous No.7097301]

>>7097298
There are anime styles that are more constructional and tangible. They aren't nearly as popular as the generic rehash waifu style unfortunately. It's like the worst aspects of anime have survived and all of its best interpretations fell by the way side because they didn't appeal to the lowest and cheapest impulses.

Sort of like music. And games. And movies. And culture in general. Fuck me

[Anonymous No.7097308]

>>7096904
Here is an attempt

[Anonymous No.7097331]

Look I dont draw much of the anime stuff but my approach would probably be something like this. You know how Katsuhiro Otomo draws the shadows on his noses? That but with the under chin area. Not quite a realistic shadow, just a "zone" if you will.

[Anonymous No.7097337]

>>7096834
too balloon like or is this a step in the right direction?

[Anonymous No.7097341]

>>7096883
>jt sexkik ripoff

[Anonymous No.7097346]

Every single example that portrays the chin in its accurate location is the superior option. I don't understand why people are disputing this. It doesn't look weird at all. Are you fags that burnt out from reality that you don't like the human form? Go look at a statue and see its jaw from below and say that it looks weird. You'll get weird looks.

[Anonymous No.7097349]

>>7096922

[Anonymous No.7097361]

>>7097308
I dont hate it, and you might be on to something.
>>7097331
The science is there! Keep going!
>>7097349
The face isn't lifted, there is just more neck showing

If we can solve this problem lads, we can start a new golden era of floating anime heads

[Anonymous No.7097368]

>>7097349
This is what the average Japanese in the anime uses to disguise shots from below

[Anonymous No.7097372]

>>7097361

[Anonymous No.7097382]

>>7097372
It redlines very well

[Anonymous No.7097396]

>>7097308
Saved. Very cute

[Anonymous No.7097397]

attempt at this

[Anonymous No.7097400]

>>7097397
blue line in the middle is misplaced. i think i made the eyes too wide at the bottom and the ear is fucked but it wasnt nearly as bad as i thought it would be

[Anonymous No.7097403]

>>7097003
>>7097004
>>7097008
>>7097009
>centered lighting
now post a picture with side lighting

[Anonymous No.7097435]

>>7097403

[Anonymous No.7097436]

>>7097435
*somehow thought you quoted drawings. I should sleep.

[Anonymous No.7097437]

>>7097435
>>7097436
I still like it anyways. Good job

[Anonymous No.7097439]

>>7096781
1. You're underestimating how much tilt/low angle is required to see the bottom of the chin, especially when the chin is as pointy as it is in many anime design.
2. You're misreading the contour as the point of the chin, when it's not necessarily the case.
3. Structure is rounded out by skin and flesh. Ignoring this means every time you draw a low angle shot, you end up with Guile.
4. Placing the neck properly is as important as drawing the jawline.
5. Shadow shapes in anime have some design leeway, because of soft edges in real life and the lack thereof in cel shading.
6. Map shadows based on the structure of the anime design, not what you think you ought to see based on real life. Obviously the two structures are not the same.

[Anonymous No.7097547]

>>7097126
HOHOHOHOHOHO
Now you just need the hand gesture and/or fan partially covering the mouth

>>7097349
same issue as >>7097040
simply moving the chin upwards rather than tilting it

>>7097439
The only other anon who gets this right.

--The entire point of this is finding the point at which the tilt of the chin passes the jawline--

The right side of the jawline was reading as the chin due to the 3/4 perspective combined with the ambiguous contours in some, lack of shading in others.
Everyone here is ignoring the issue and/or finding a workaround so they don't have to draw the chin/jawline properly. (although I admit, the noblewoman's laugh was pretty classy~ even if it didn't address the issue)

[Anonymous No.7097560]

>>7097547

[Anonymous No.7097605]

>>7097439
(s)hes here (s)hes here!!

[Anonymous No.7097606]

>>7097605
who

[Anonymous No.7097613]

>>7097606
if you know you know, if you dont then you dont

[Anonymous No.7097621]

>>7096797
>>7096921
Retards, leaving in the construction lines and sketchy finish masks the problem and doesn't allow proper judgment.

>>7096837
Getting there.

>>7096868
Pretty good, but it gives off a manly air.

>>7097054
Welcometo the human race, fellow flesh suit, we call it neoteny and it's evolutionary.

[Anonymous No.7097622]

>>7097606
https://wici.fandom.com/wiki/Character_List_Lore
See if you can guess.

[Anonymous No.7097649]

ITT

[Anonymous No.7097678]

>>7097622
thats not him

[Anonymous No.7097684]

>>7097678
right, it's "her" now

[Anonymous No.7097686]

>>7097684
where can I follow her?

[Anonymous No.7097711]

>>7096818
that's a little extreme anon

[Anonymous No.7097712]

>>7096968
some people just open their mouths when they look up. When you do CPR tilting the head back is enough to get someone to open their mouth instinctively.

[Anonymous No.7097948]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7097965]

I think the redpill is that people in general just look weird from that angle lol, I struggle with it too
Just copy whatever your favorite mangaka do

[Anonymous No.7097992]

>>7096781
A woman should never be seen from this angle. Women are small and subservient by nature's design / male sexual selection, they are to be looked down upon in the same way an adult looks down on a child.

[Anonymous No.7098007]

>>7096904
>>7096922
>>7097040
>>7097308
nice, got there in the end

[Anonymous No.7098010]

>>7097439
good stuff

[Anonymous No.7098357]

>>7097337
I like it. nicer than mine, though I was trying to retain the initial style.

[Anonymous No.7098366]

>>7097337
>>7097435
>>7097439
There all look great, and I'd be happy to any of em. If no one can do better, I think I'm satisfied

[Anonymous No.7098530]

Everyone in this thread are drawing the nose too high. Yes, the nose gets closer to the eyes, because for foreshortening. But you're still drawing the nose to close.

[Anonymous No.7098546]

>>7098530
I can kind of see it, but show us the way, or are you a no draw?

[Anonymous No.7098562]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7098564]

>>7097439
won the thread

[Anonymous No.7098567]

>>7098357
>>7098366
I gotta say, the chubbier face has grown on me. If the ultimate goal is cuteness, I think that would be the way to go. Even though it is technically a workaround so you don't have to draw that area of anatomy correctly, I think it works simply because it is on a younger/chubbier girl's face.

>>7098530
I get what you're saying, but I don't think they are ready for that yet. I think it would be better to just omit the face entirely for right now and focus on the chin/jawline.

[Anonymous No.7098572]

>>7097560

[Anonymous No.7098577]

>>7097992
Know your place, fool.

[Anonymous No.7098581]

>>7097439
kek i was waiting for simon to dab on everyone

[Anonymous No.7098600]

>>7097712
The reason for that is when people die/go unconscious, the muscles in their face go slack causing their jaw to hang open due to gravity. To offset this, it was common practice to wrap a bandage around the head of the deceased to keep the jaw closed until rigor mortis set in to stiffen the muscles again.

[Anonymous No.7098601]

>>7098572
おほほほほほほ
まだまだ子犬よ

[Anonymous No.7098602]

>>7097965
>true detective s1
GMI

[Anonymous No.7098609]

>>7098601
dosedth

[Anonymous No.7098694]

>>7098572
kek

[Anonymous No.7098891]

>>7098530

[Anonymous No.7099009]

>>7098530
>>7098891
btfo

[Anonymous No.7099013]

>>7098891
Beg here, what is this line projection technique called and how do I know which lines are supposed to coincide when turning the head when so many others change place?

[Anonymous No.7099037]

>>7099013
The original face was not drawn using a projection technique. This is only for illustrative purposes - a visual proof after the fact. You shouldn't draw this way for the most part, and you certainly should not be doing this for something as simple and common as the head.
That said, this is something covered by Loomis.

[Anonymous No.7099239]

>>7096781
Am I retarded? Why is everyone shitting on left? It looks great.

[Anonymous No.7099245]

Is it worth getting 3.0 ? How does it feel to use the 3d models now on windows ? Is it better optimized ?

[Anonymous No.7099268]

>>7099037
>You shouldn't draw this way for the most part, and you certainly should not be doing this for something as simple and common as the head.
WRONG, you should absolutely be drawing this way especially as a beg to get perspective and foreshortening down. this is great practice along with drawing humans inside of boxes in perspective like loomis/bridgman

[Anonymous No.7099289]

>>7099268
he never implied to never do that you dunning kruger crab, learn to read

[Anonymous No.7099306]

>>7099268
>Don't listen to him, follow his advice!
Is this the schrodinger's cat of crabbing?

[Anonymous No.7099427]

>>7096781
the right indeed looks more aesthetically pleasing because it gives more spatial volume to the head which is the sole subject of vision. the stretch just offers a very 3D and therefore dynamic appearance.

[Anonymous No.7099463]

>>7099306
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerna
You know off of libra I can just kill them all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libra_(constellation)

[Anonymous No.7099491]

>>7099239
You're not retarded, you just have a manjaw, sweetie. Just turn on your phone's filter, everyone is doing it!

[Anonymous No.7099493]

>>7099491
Right is 10000x more manjaw than left. She unironically looks like that french anime meme guy on the right.

[Anonymous No.7099595]

wip, How is this one?

[Anonymous No.7099608]

>>7099009
??? He's the only one who drew it somewhat right. How am I btfo?
Oh, I suppose I missed his post earlier here >>7097439 So yeah, he's the one guy to figure out the nose should be lower. But everyone else above his makes the nose too high.
Though he did cheat a little by making the head turned more to the side compared to everyone else.

[Anonymous No.7099628]

>>7099608
>cheat a little
sidestepped the whole problem

[Anonymous No.7099630]

>>7099628
True. I was trying to be nice. But the slight turn really does make a huge difference in difficulty.

[Anonymous No.7099835]

>>7098572
ohohohohohohoho

[Anonymous No.7099889]

>>7099595
bad lighting on face

[Anonymous No.7099895]

>>7099595
what are you asking for?
that head isnt rotated, the camera is merely shooting from a low angle

[Anonymous No.7099938]

>>7099608
>>7099628
Guys, if you still have questions, you don't have to do this weird passive aggressive dance. It's okay to just ask.
First, the nose not only gets closer to the eyes, it can be above the eyes sooner than you think, because the eyes are inset in the skull. Look at where the eyeball is in the first row. It can be clipped not only by the nose, but the cheekbones. It's by design. They are there to protect the eyes.
Second, the reason I didn't do a more straight-on view is because it's not going to show you what you think you want to see. From a top-down/bottom-up view, the jaw is typically smaller than the skull, so you're not going to see it in contour. Most of it is also going to be covered by other body features, such as the torso.
All the same concepts apply, it just comes down to structural understanding, and simplifying shadow shapes. This goes for cartoonier, spoon-like depictions. It's not cheating, it's not rounding off the jaw. You're seeing the hairline and the back of the head.

[Anonymous No.7099949]

>>7099938
I should also add, in real would situations, you typically would not see the back and base of the head from this view because necks are almost the same width as the skull (and if you're Brock Lesnar, wider). Necks in anime, particularly women, are much thinner.So this is something you have to understand structurally, not by recall from life drawing.

[Anonymous No.7099957]

>>7099938
cool visualization for the eye. Not sure what you mean be not going to see it from a bottom-up view, being covered by the body? There are situations you might see the contour, if the body is not straight up and down, if they are arching their back or neck for example.

[Anonymous No.7099968]

>>7099957
>Not sure what you mean be not going to see it from a bottom-up view, being covered by the body?
I probably should not have said the head and jaw, rather it's the relationship of the head and jaw and neck you won't be seeing. As I mentioned in the first post, a lot of problems people have is not just the jaw, but the position of the neck.
You're not going to get a good view of the back of the head in relation to the neck, at least a normal-length one, no matter how flexible you are. You have to understand it from profile or quarter view.

[Anonymous No.7100044]

>>7096922
ok bros smoothing it doesnt work

[Anonymous No.7100080]

>>7097439
Are you the Teal line guy? Legendary stuff my dude.

[Anonymous No.7100088]

>>7097439
In case anybody wants to save this

[Anonymous No.7100089]

>>7100088
LMAO I had already screencapped it.

[Anonymous No.7100091]

>>7100089
Kek, can you do this one too? >>7099938
Yours looks nicer than mine

[Anonymous No.7100093]

>>7100091
It might just be a larger monitor.

[Anonymous No.7100111]

>>7097048
Even in real like the jaw shadow isn't as sharp on females as it is on men.

[Anonymous No.7100113]

>>7097684
why do they all turn into trannies
is it something in the water

[Anonymous No.7100124]

>>7100044
You can't fix this because the underlying structure isn't correct. If you don't fix it, you can't get correct shadows no matter what you try.

[Anonymous No.7100128]

>>7097684
>read the wiki
>nothing in it mentions trannies
Mental illness.

[Anonymous No.7100688]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7100746]

>>7100113
Trannyism is an easy scapegoat for your problems

[Anonymous No.7100785]

>>7100128
it's just a recent rumor(seen it pop up a few times over the last year), so no need to add it to the wiki. unless they want it updated themselves, or to dispel it itt...

[Anonymous No.7100791]

>>7097439
>>7099938
>>7098891
i would commend the examples and tips, too bad you had to draw a shitty elf for them

[Anonymous No.7101310]

>>7097684
I liked him better when he was just a pedo

[Anonymous No.7103403]

>>7097439
>>7098891
>>7099938
If you're still here, can you do this but for overhead angles? It's not as common to find stuff like this especially for stylized heads so it's much appreciated.

[Anonymous No.7103558]

>>7099938
>>7098891
>>7097439
ilysm

[Anonymous No.7103565]

>>7099938
simon is so GOATed

[Anonymous No.7103667]

>>7099938
I wasn't being passive aggressive. I didn't have any questions for you, because I didn't really care if you posted a better example or not. I wasn't looking for help.
I said you "cheated" the angle, because it was simply skewed more to the side than everyone else's attempt. Which made it relatively more easy to make look good. Basically, if you wanted to instruct, then you should attempt the essence of what they're attempting, while fixing their problems, not change the essence to avoid the problems.

This current example of yours tilts the head back more than necessary, when compared to other examples. Which isn't to say it's wrong. Only that it doesn't disprove my point about the noses being too high in other drawings. You opted to change the tilt of the head to support the close nose. While I would have changed the nose to support the tilt of the head.
Not a big deal, since the difference between tilts is maybe only 15-30 degrees anyway.

[Anonymous No.7103668]

>>7100111
Ayo, what are you referencing a random 7 year old girl for?

[Anonymous No.7103672]

>>7097168

Only one part of Detroit is bad and that one part is memed to shit. Downtown Detroit is actually quite nice.

[Anonymous No.7103704]

>>7103667
>I said you "cheated" the angle, because it was simply skewed more to the side than everyone else's attempt.
If I posted this drawing instead, do you think that changes any of the advice or processes involved? No, it does not. And no, this isn't any more or less difficult or better looking or worse looking than any other view.
Your particular mindset is ultimately the problem with a lot of threads on ic of this sort. I'm not seeking to teach you how to draw any particular angle to specific degrees, or any particular anatomy. I'm going for generalized concepts and processes. No one's going to improve organically if you show them they need to draw this or that a few nanometers to the left or right in one particular view. Rather, the artist needs to have a process that can justify the placement they chose. I'm just showing proofs. Not fixing anyone's drawings. In my opinion, that doesn't help. I don't care if you disagree, you should post your example if you want to have that conversation with the OP.
>This current example of yours tilts the head back more than necessary, when compared to other examples.
It's tilted as far back as it is, because people have been drawing way too much of the bottom of the chin. In other words, their tilt does not justify what they want to show, or what they're having trouble with. I noted this as the very first point. Since OP seems focused on the chin, that's what I decided to keep. With the tilt changed, the placement of the nose also changes. By your logic, I could say you're trying to justify your opinion about the nose by changing the amount of chin shown, if you had actually cared to post an example.
>>7103403
Overhead angles should be much easier, because you're drawing fewer features, thus there aren't any stylization concerns that would override what you would learn in any general artbook. What are you specifically having a problem with?

[Anonymous No.7103851]

>>7096793
Three of those screenshots aren't from Japanese anime, at least. It would have been more interesting if you said that you were comparing the ones drawn for a Japanese cartoon v. an American cartoon.

That being said is the top left from Onegai Teacher?

[Anonymous No.7103867]

>>7100688
jin kariya approves of this

[Anonymous No.7103871]

>>7103704
i've always wondered, what resources did you use to learn perspective and apply it to figure drawing so well? just loomis?

[Anonymous No.7103995]

>>7103871
Of all the books on drawing people recommended regularly on /ic/, the most important thing is that you read a book through thoroughly, not trying to guess whether you have the "correct" book. You won't know if the book is right until you understand it and test its theories and produce drawings solely by applying them. Always test with the awareness that knowledge and practice are different things, so initial failure does not necessarily repudiate the book. If any theory on construction does not allow you to create a view sight unseen, it is faulty or incomplete.
The rules that govern primitive shapes are simple and consistent. Learn them, especially the sphere, the ellipse, and the box. Learn the simple ways of dividing them and finding orientation.
Do not stress about absolute accuracy, instead focus on things that break logic. A box can be drawn inaccurately any number of ways and still look good, but it stops looking good when it doesn't recede into space properly. You can draw an arm from a dynamic perspective with emotional exaggeration and break all the rules except one - the segment of the arm closest to you must be longer and larger than the segment furthest away from you. If it's not, logic is broken.

[Anonymous No.7104105]

>>7103995
good take
no shortcuts, most of the masters settled into their own methods of achieving the results you describe - better to sit, read their lore thoroughly, and decide if their methods work for you (and you can pick and choose from any number of individual methods they use) while focusing less on perfect technique and more on honing your own taste for what reads well and whether what you put to paper "feels" correct

[Anonymous No.7104192]

>>7096793
I'm impresed anon, you're probably the only person on this board to actually have an art question and try to figure it out yourself, here's a hint: There's no reason to suppose accuracy to the 3D world will give you a pretty picture.

[Anonymous No.7104197]

>>7103704
Let's say I wanted to draw an overhead angle of a cute anime girl. There's 3 main things I struggle to wrap my head around since the heads end up looking too extreme like pic related.

1. Messing up the placement of the eyes so the character ends up looking like a goldfish. The shape of the eyes would also be too flat which is confusing because they tend to be on the flatter side from what I've seen. Maybe the brow ridge not sticking out as much on anime heads could be throwing me off?
2. I don't really understand how to attach the ear. When I look at an anime girl from a 3/4 view, the distance from the end of the eye to where the ear is attached is usually shorter compared to the distance on a loomis head. So when viewing the head from the top, the ears should be closer to the front face than in reality but I don't know how to make it look good.
3. Figuring out how to outline the hidden neck/shoulders structurally since the big anime heads obscures it from view. I think you or someone already mentioned that necks in anime are thin but I also want to understand how the shoulders would flow out from from there.

Sorry if my ramble was too long or unclear. I'm probably overthinking it but I just wanted to get it all out there. I like the way you stylize so it would be cool to see how you would approach things.

[Anonymous No.7104276]

>>7104197
Those extreme angles are done in 5 point perspective to emphasize the claustrophobic tension of being that close to someone's face, and the stress the character is conveying.

[Anonymous No.7104289]

[Anonymous No.7104291]

>>7104289

[Anonymous No.7104337]

>>7104197
>I don't really understand how to attach the ear.
The placement of the ears are relatively easy to find, because they begin at roughly the midpoint of the side of the face box. So find the midpoint of the box.
As an aside, most animated character designs will place features at divisions that are easy to find, like midpoints or thirds.
>so the character ends up looking like a goldfish
Have the pupils focus on something. If you don't understand how to do this, read up on the short axis of the ellipse.
>Figuring out how to outline the hidden neck/shoulders structurally
Nothing to do but to draw through at the sketch phase.

[Anonymous No.7104381]

>>7096781
the second one looks retarded and the shadow makes no sense

[Anonymous No.7104382]

>>7097439
humans don't have ears like that, are you one of those 'fur fags' ?

[Anonymous No.7104627]

>>7104337
Thanks a lot for these. They were really helpful for my attempt even though I think I still messed up the neck and shoulders.

[Anonymous No.7104637]

>>7104337
>>7104627
>someone asks a question
>gets a thorough reply with demonstration
>applies the advice
Great to see. This is /ic/ at its best

[Anonymous No.7104674]

>>7096781
?

[Anonymous No.7104702]

>>7096781
Left looks far better IMO

[Anonymous No.7104842]

>>7103704
>If I posted this drawing instead, do you think that changes any of the advice or processes involved? No, it does not.
"DURRR, IF I POSTED THE EXAMPLE THAT EVERYONE NEEDS TO SEE TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM, DO YOU THINK IT WOULD ASSIST IN COMPREHENDING THE SOLUTION?!"
Look, you're a skilled artist, and your instruction is fine enough. I just think you glossed over the example everyone wanted to see.
I'm not reading the rest of your post, because I don't care to bicker any further. Your current example is good, the nose is lower like I predicted it would be, and it's whatever.

[Anonymous No.7104845]

>>7096781
right looks better

if it looks good, it's good IMHO

almost no one gives a shit about anatomical accuracy, just take one glance at any social media site

[Anonymous No.7104856]

I think this is a good up-chin depiction for an anime character. Might be worth studying.

[Anonymous No.7104889]

>>7104842
>the nose is lower like I predicted it would be
What the hell are you talking about. They're practically the same height. The nose even be slightly higher on the right.
Stop spouting BS.

[Anonymous No.7104914]

>>7097622
lol did Brian write that shit

[Anonymous No.7104916]

>>7104889
I'm saying the nose he drew is lower than the noses OTHER people drew. Please try to follow the flow of conversation.
Reference here: >>7103667 "So yeah, he's the one guy to figure out the nose should be lower."

[Anonymous No.7104917]

>>7104889
I'm saying the nose he drew is lower than the noses OTHER people drew. Please try to follow the flow of conversation.
Reference here: >>7099608 "So yeah, he's the one guy to figure out the nose should be lower."

[Anonymous No.7104922]

>>7104842
kys

[Anonymous No.7104926]

>>7099938
>It's okay to just ask.
Totally irrelevant to the original topic but since you're clearly pretty good I feel it's okay to ask. As a beginner, how do I make it so drawing digitally doesn't make me want to suck-start a shotgun? I can knock out 5+ hour practice sessions with pencil and paper, I just love traditional media so much, but it feels super unnatural to draw on a computer, either with a pen tablet or on my ipad. What's the cure for my kind of autism? Because I feel like digital painting is supposed to be this huge core skill nowadays and I'm missing out on it.

[Anonymous No.7104944]

>>7099938
Yo, Simon, what resolution do you draw on?

[Anonymous No.7105169]

>>7104842
>I'm not reading the rest of your post, because I don't care to bicker any further
Why do you fags always pretend you're not mad when you clearly are, dumb fucking Dunning-Kruger retard, stay bad forever

[Anonymous No.7105394]

>>7104856
forgot about queens blade

[Anonymous No.7105460]

>>7098572
/ic/ is fucking fun, I've never been here before, gigakek.

[Anonymous No.7105546]

>>7104845
ure dumb

[Anonymous No.7105745]

>>7100093
you forgot the extra post underneath

[Anonymous No.7105975]

Bitches get btfo and still try to get the last word in. Classic /ic/. No wonder why people stop giving advices.

[Anonymous No.7105980]

>>7105975
Idk why people keep giving them (You)'s but its funny seeing it.

[Anonymous No.7106344]

>infamous toilet tracer retard gets btfo by famous redliner
kek

[Anonymous No.7107354]

bump

[Anonymous No.7107366]

>>7107354
Holy shit this question has been answered how many times already? Redlining it wasn't enough for you guys, so someone DREW IT OUT for you and you STILL debate over it. Whenever the correct answer is posted here you guys just fucking ignore it and continue on with your rants. Never before have I seen such unwillingness to improve on a subject that was specifically asked.
My standards were already low for this board but goddamn...

[Anonymous No.7107373]

>>7105975
>advices

[Anonymous No.7107379]

>>7107366
i'm just bumping it so people can see simon's drawings god damn nigga stop seethin

[Anonymous No.7109350]

>this thread

[Anonymous No.7111648]

>>7097439
>>7099938
>just ask
did i do it right?

[Anonymous No.7111826]

>>7111648
The head is not tilted back enough to justify showing any of the underside of the jaw.
Draw out the neck in your drawing and see if you really want it that thick. Also check its placement.

[Anonymous No.7111890]

>>7111826
thank you for assistance. i did not realize the head needed to be that far back to see under the chin. though now i feel like i did made the chin too long. is this better?

[Anonymous No.7111894]

>>7111890
>>7111826
oops forgot

[Anonymous No.7111908]

>>7109350
Some legendary shots in prison school. The ending had me fucked up though, I got way too invested in that story. Reading it during the lockdown didn't help

[Anonymous No.7111929]

>>7096793
Top left is the best

[Anonymous No.7111982]

Simon ur my hero no cap. Pls respond to my twitter DM :(

[Anonymous No.7112021]

>>7111894
im like starting to get it but not really.

[Anonymous No.7112264]

Toriyama does the second one a lot.

[Anonymous No.7112265]

>>7112264
>did
Fix'd. Dammit.

[Anonymous No.7112276]

I was actually practicing some of this stuff yesterday. I'd say it's relevant to remember that a little exaggeration for a dramatic angle gives away some leeway to experiment.

[Anonymous No.7112620]

>>7111894
If you can't do this >>7098891 with your drawing and line up all the features correctly, then you know your design doesn't work in a purely logical sense.
Test your work. Does the corner of the mandible really need to be that low? Does the ear? Are you constructing? Are the angles correct? If you're not dong these things, every drawing you make is a shot in the dark. You might get lucky, or you're limiting yourself to copying existing drawings. You won't know until you test and prove those things first.

[Anonymous No.7112762]

>>7112620
Eh too much work. Bored now with this. Gonna draw something else. I'll just get a 3d model if I ever need to draw this angle. Thanks for the advice anyway.

[Anonymous No.7112764]

Did anyone else get angry reading this moron's >>7112762 reply?

[Anonymous No.7112765]

>>7112764
You like like a woman.

[Anonymous No.7112769]

>>7112764
You sound like a woman.

[Anonymous No.7112780]

>>7112764
No. If it was the OP, then maybe, but I can't know for sure and we have larpers shitting up threads all the time so...

[Anonymous No.7112787]

>>7097397
was reading something that had this under the chin angle in one of the panels and it made me remember this thread. i should practice this more actively than i do it's something i have absolutely no experience in and it keeps torturing me. my attempt after a few days

[Anonymous No.7112908]

>>7097439
>>7099938
Hey simon what are your thoughts on roomis-sensei's books?

[Anonymous No.7112916]

>>7112276
>Pathetic.jpeg

[Anonymous No.7112952]

>>7097048
god damn that bottom middle sukuna looks so fucking chadly lmao, who knew cursed energy behaved like testosterone

[Anonymous No.7112967]

>>7096968
Indecent...

[Anonymous No.7112988]

>>7096781
This has already been solved anon

[Anonymous No.7114258]

>>7112764
A little.

[Anonymous No.7116514]

bump

[Anonymous No.7116544]

>>7096781
who cares about the chin, just make every other feature say "looking up", forehead, ears, nose, lips, eyes, every features will go against the one

[Anonymous No.7116547]

>>7116544
sounds wrong. pyw

[Anonymous No.7116562]

>>7098891
>>7099938
These are so fucking good wtf

[Anonymous No.7116645]

>>7112988
is that chris hart or...

[Anonymous No.7116659]

>>7112764
No. But I tend to ignore /int/s asking for crits because they usually behave like that.

[Anonymous No.7116670]

>>7109350

[Anonymous No.7116871]

>>7116645
Someone else.

[Anonymous No.7117510]

>>7109350
What's going on here?

[Anonymous No.7117643]

>>7096968
She's going suck my cock bros

[Anonymous No.7117717]

>>7096781
Here's my take on it

[Anonymous No.7118472]

>>7096793
is top left bible black?

[Anonymous No.7118510]

>>7096781
how'd I do?

[Anonymous No.7118571]

>>7116670
sauce me up

[Anonymous No.7119079]

>>7118510
I'm being pedantic, but that's not looking up. That's just a low angle shot. The two are different because looking up requires stretching the neck. It juts out.
Also, you should try drawing your character without hair, and ask yourself if that's how you want her head to be shaped.

[Anonymous No.7120954]

Miura seemed quite fond of low angles. I'd look through Berserk if you need more inspiration.

[Anonymous No.7121442]

>>7096883
>girl voice
NOT FUNNY

[Anonymous No.7121491]

>>7120954
>not even the goat could make it look good

[Anonymous No.7121494]

>>7121491
He was a mere mortal (clearly, RIP) but what he did do well, he did exceptionally well.
Berserk is up there with LOTR

[Anonymous No.7121548]

>>7112021

[Anonymous No.7121654]

>>7121548
So are you going to be a cryptic retard or actually explain how to fix it? You somehow made a worse response than not saying anything at al. This board is such a joke.

[Anonymous No.7121929]

>>7121654
she's right. beglet seething when they get called out for making up anatomy and still refusing to look it up after being brought to their attention. beglets like you bring down the quality of the board because they want to be spoonfed instead of becoming self-reliant

[Anonymous No.7121950]

>>7096781
>easthetic
I prefer southetic, but at least it's not westhetic

[Anonymous No.7121959]

>>7096781

[Anonymous No.7121969]

>>7121959
fixed

[Anonymous No.7122041]

>>7121929
No shit, they're right. I know it's wrong. I want an answer on how to fix it. Just because you highlight something in red ink doesn't mean it's useful information. What value does anyone get by pointing out something that is clearly wrong with no solution to make it better? It's just some dumbass with red ink who wants to feel important by pretending to be smart. The most shittiest "critique" I've ever seen in all my time on this board.

[Anonymous No.7122115]

>>7122041
wahhhh look at a skeleton

[Anonymous No.7122602]

[Anonymous No.7122663]

>>7097435
holy shiet this is amazing

[Anonymous No.7122903]

>>7121654
Look at drawing. Stroke your chin with thumb and forefinger like you're an evil villain. Feel the form? Doesn't match. Head is primarily two objects, cranium and jaw. Practice drawing jawbones alone. Go further and learn to subdivide the head further and further into separate objects. Get going on some perspective. See you in a year.

[Anonymous No.7122935]

>>7121959
>>7121969

[Anonymous No.7122937]

>>7121654
>people trying to teach you how to fish
>you: just give me your fish
Sorry, we can't dumb it down sufficiently to match your work ethic. It truly is our failing as a board. A refund has been applied to your gold account.

[Anonymous No.7122965]

>>7111826
Teal-senpai, do you post your stuff anywhere?

[Anonymous No.7123272]

>>7112620
>or you're limiting yourself to copying existing drawings
This is me, and I live in hell

[Anonymous No.7123350]

I see now that the jaw is much too narrow.