/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.7064385]

ITT: Post begtraps
Only the most potent and progress debilitating beg traps allowed

[Anonymous No.7064395]

watching vilppu as a nodraw beg was a big waste of time
he just says lol feel the form
gonna try again drawing along after I have more practice

[Anonymous No.7064401]

>>7064395
>>7064385
>ITT: Retards that read, watch, listen, and do anything but just draw.

[Anonymous No.7064404]

>>7064395
>watching and not drawing
>why am I not improving?
I'm so sorry, that must have been awful.

[Anonymous No.7064406]

>>7064385
Is this the best way to get answers on whether a learning material is good or not by making trollbait posts like this?

[Anonymous No.7064407]

>>7064385
Literally all books/ methods have been called /beg/traps by some filtered retard. There are no /beg/traps, only retardos.

[Anonymous No.7064410]

>>7064406
kinda, ye

[Anonymous No.7064412]

>>7064385
do any real artists draw all this crap before drawing a figure?

[Anonymous No.7064415]

>>7064412
Yes.

[Anonymous No.7064419]

>>7064412
They did to the point they don't have to do it anymore. Kinda like training wheels. I wish more lunat/ic/s would understand this.

[/beg/cel No.7064425]

>>7064385
i read half the book betty wrote

couldn't read more since I didn't feel like I needed more info

[Anonymous No.7064430]

You should start practicing construction after being able to copy contours from a reference not before

[Anonymous No.7064432]

Imagine getting trapped by drawing manuals. Literal brain damaged autists get trapped in drawing manuals lmao

[Anonymous No.7064436]

>>7064412
No
>>7064419
You don't learn it automatically, you have to make an effort to stop drawing that shit which is what permabegs don't get.
You have to stop drawing that shit

[Anonymous No.7064439]

>>7064412
Decent chunk of jap artists just trace over 3d models or draw a silhouette before pasting the features on top. Probably a result of most of them learning art by simply copying manga themselves rather than starting with construction.

[Anonymous No.7064440]

>>7064432
>brain damage autists
or maybe they just should use other method instead of making the same potato faces for months

[Anonymous No.7064447]

>>7064412
real artists use everything: 3d models, actual models, photo ref, construction, memory
whatever gets them to their goal

[Anonymous No.7064457]

>>7064407
You know the most sure way to get stuck in something is to be convinced you're immune to it?

[Anonymous No.7064469]

>>7064385
>>7064436
You are confusing cause and effect.

As was explained to you in the /beg/ thread, someone starting from zero can't just draw a silhouette and noodle the details on top of it. They have no idea how to make an accurate silhouette, because they don't know how the underlying forms are positioned relative to one another in 3D space. Construction helps them visualize where everything is supposed to go.

Experienced artists already have that structural and anatomical information in their brains, so they don't have to literally draw out a mannequin every time they draw a figure. They have graduated past the training wheels, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.7064480]

>>7064412
kinda? every time i see someone show the constructions its not on that level of detail. usually a lot more simple.

like ok my opinion might be weird cause i learned with tracing but all those cylinders always seemed so stiff to me. like there needs to be curves so i can see why some only dot or circle where the knee is.

[Anonymous No.7064486]

>>7064385
>ITT: Post begtraps
apparently this entire thread

[Anonymous No.7064502]

>>7064385

[Anonymous No.7064505]

>>7064486
forums are the biggest begtrap, how do we get out?

[Anonymous No.7064519]

>>7064412
i'm at the stage where i'm growing past making construction (still not there) and i usually make a loose sketch, then if something is off i try to think of the figure as OP pic. Like, is the chest too far behind? Are the hips not in perspective? Are proportions right? etc.
If still not sure, i draw rough construction over the sketch.

Constructing a sketch from something like OP pic gets me a really stiff drawing usually.

[Anonymous No.7064530]

it seems to me like drawing figures from scratch is like speedrunning and people do it for its own sake

and the people who advocate academic drawing just happen to sell courses on it...hmm...

meanwhile, this is how the kino gets made
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penciller#Chuck_Austen
>When using a Mac, he uses Ray Dream Studio, and when using a PC, usings 3D Studio Max. These allow him to take three-dimensional models and break them down into simplified two-tone line forms. He purchases the models from catalogues, or uses ones that he built for Strips using in Hash or Animation:Master. After importing the models into Studio or Max, he arranges the angles and other aspects of the scene before rendering them, such as placement of background objects or modifying gestures, while the computer corrects elements such as perspective, foreshortening, proportions, etc.

[Anonymous No.7064547]

>>7064530
His work looks stiff and terrible so you're not really proving your point here.

[Anonymous No.7064574]

>>7064530
bait

[Anonymous No.7064602]

>>7064480
No, YOU are confusing cause and effect nigga
A method is the cause and the effect is the effect, I can't believe you can type all this shit and not realize you are literally calling the drawing (the effect of your work) the cause
This inverted fucking backwards ass anti-pragmatic approach to drawing is the root of so many people being permabegs. If the method doesn't work you change it, this is a self evident principle that exists in every serious field but it's absent in the shart community

[Anonymous No.7064612]

>>7064602
what's your preferred method then?

[Anonymous No.7064619]

>>7064612
>look at accomplished artists
>look at their actual sketches that they turned into drawings, don't look at what they say, only trust their actual process
let me get you started little bro
https://youtu.be/wOXtpa5xp7I?si=JYuMG-QXRVegD2h7
You will notice a distinctive lack of shitty ass skeleton mannequins here, keep observing the rest im not gonna spoonfeed you forever

[Anonymous No.7064620]

>>7064502

[Anonymous No.7064673]

Hot take
How you draw doesn‘t matter nearly as much as the amount of time that you draw

[Anonymous No.7064686]

>>7064673
see what I mean?
>>7064602
>This inverted fucking backwards ass anti-pragmatic approach to drawing is the root of so many people being permabegs. If the method doesn't work you change it, this is a self evident principle that exists in every serious field but it's absent in the shart community

[Anonymous No.7064865]

>>7064457
And whoever does that is retarded

[Anonymous No.7064884]

>>7064619
You're such a dumb overconfident piece of shit, it's not worth engaging your crabby bait.

[sage No.7064899]

>>7064480
>>7064619
>>7064602
>>7064884
etc etc go back to drawing friends

[Anonymous No.7064944]

>>7064899
but i want to play helldivers with the boys

[Anonymous No.7064946]

>>7064944
okay go play some helldivers then back to art after that

[Anonymous No.7065118]

Hampton is a begtrap?

[all fields No.7065141]

>>7065118
No, faggot OP got filtered hard by him and created this thread to seethe

[Anonymous No.7065151]

>>7065141
Not sure how you get filtered by this book. Is there an even easier one? It's literally connect the dots.

[Anonymous No.7065157]

>>7065151
>Is there an even easier one?
fwap, which also filters begs

[Anonymous No.7065161]

>>7064502
What anime is that banner from?

[Anonymous No.7065165]

>>7065161
Samurai Champloo

[Anonymous No.7065182]

>>7065165
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.7065185]

>>7065157
Then I was filtered, Loomis had too much text. Hampton is much simpler imo.

[Anonymous No.7065188]

/ic/ is a begtrap

[Anonymous No.7065606]

>>7064385
I'm a giga /beg/ and I just stopped doing construction and instead focused on the outline of what I'm drawing and filling in the void after, it's a lot more fun than just stacking boxes and circles and shit
I mean I can see it being useful when I git gud but right now I don't really care and just want to draw and 90% of advice is normally given by masters who've drawn for years and can't even comprehend what it's like being a /beg/
So instead I look to where all artists started, and that was, just drawing whatever the fuck their looking at, or copying their favorite artist. Unironically I never see this get brought up nearly enough by art teachers the fact that most artists you look up to started their journey from copying art by people better than them and they start learning more concrete shit as they progress

[Anonymous No.7065730]

>>7064385
Agreed, Hampton is absolute dogshit lol. FWAP and drawabox are some others

[Anonymous No.7066138]

>>7064385
The biggest beg trap is not learning accurate observational drawing first. Anons that don’t know how to see properly are gonna stay prebeg. You can’t learn anything from any resource until you’ve learned to draw what you actually see and not what your brain thinks you see. Because you can’t study something if you can’t see it, and you can’t correct yourself when you can’t see what’s wrong with your drawing — even when it’s absolute dog shit, you’ll maybe only have a vague sense that “something’s off” but you can’t tell what. Learning to see is step zero. Literally everything is a beg trap until you can see.

Keys to drawing, Betty Edwards (my choice), Proko’s beg course, Eviston’s beg course, Dorian Iten, Krenz, etc. Pick one and do it.

Another actual beg trap:
>Bridgman
I like Bridgman, but studying his books means death for begs until we’ve got some experience and anatomy knowledge already. And you’ve gotta feel the form pretty well, too.

Maybe a beg trap for some, but not others:
>“Just draw”
without the context of FZD’s video, and especially when they haven’t learned how to see yet, this can lead to frustration, overwhelm, and stagnation for many. Once you can see, can be decent advice. It basically means “you need mileage.” Especially good for analysis paralysis types, howies, turd polishers, and schizos.

[Anonymous No.7066150]

>>7066138
i didn't learn that and i am already good at drawing. autismcopying is not a prerequesite of imaginative drawing.

[Anonymous No.7066169]

>>7064412
Mine's is more detailed that one, but as >>7064419 said, at some point you don't
really to do it as much anymore.

[Anonymous No.7066256]

>>7064412
I had a teacher who was taught at Saint Petersburg. She said that doing construction as an exercise to train yourself makes sense, but doing it when you're actually drawing to make something will make make it look stiff and robotic; you should think about construction while drawing, not do it on the paper unless you're in serious trouble (and even then I think she would want you to get a small piece of paper and do constructive sketches on that to see if you can figure things out). This isn't verbatim, but it was something like this.

[Anonymous No.7066336]

>>7064385

[Anonymous No.7069530]

>>7066138
>>7066150
How do you know when you can draw what you see?
I've been through 10s of beg courses, drawing boxes, cylinders, and spheres of IRL objects. Some portrait stuff, etc.

[Anonymous No.7069552]

>>7069530
y you must be able to accurately discriminate what is not true within your depiction.. if you are going for representation, you will have to be honest with yourself and consider specifically WHY it looks off and address that weakness. yrs of caricature and urban sketching for me have helped with structuring freehand drawings in a way that is intelligible. try using a viewfinder and depict the scene exactly as you see it if you’re working on compositional foundations, keep finding shapes within shapes

[Anonymous No.7069555]

>>7069552
I work digitally. Anything more doable I can do on a tablet?

[Anonymous No.7070407]

>>7066138
What's a howie?

[Anonymous No.7070478]

>>7069555
wouldnt recommend learning observational drawing digitally imo. drawing a photo is much different than drawing from life, and you cant really gauge mental accuracy if youre using undo. git gud on shape construction and contour techniques though. try a pov drawing on the tablet, hang a mirror do a pov self portrait maybe. paste specimens up to draw studies of. fastest way i built line/perspective accuracy was obsessive constructive line drawings of objects in perspective, no erasing just darker the more confident a line becomes

[Anonymous No.7070480]

>>7070407
leave this board while you still can.. its not too late

[Anonymous No.7070540]

>>7064385
“Gesture” is definitely the #1 begtrap.
Planning the general proportions/flow of your drawing is important, but you only can really understand how to do that once you’re already experienced. A total /beg/ who starts with “gesture” and just draws a bunch of squiggly lines without understanding the purpose behind it isn’t learning anything.

[Anonymous No.7070750]

>>7064619
bro it's anime
his skill and that of a beg is like 6 months of actively drawing 1 hour a day
his skill comes from panneling, story telling and design sense because one punch, much like one piece has really fun likable designs even if they are weird.
his skill in drawing is early intermediate

[Anonymous No.7070797]

>>7064385
Trying to avoid begtraps is a begtrap

[Anonymous No.7070906]

>>7070540
this

[Anonymous No.7070915]

>>7066138
>Keys to drawing, Betty Edwards (my choice), Proko’s beg course, Eviston’s beg course, Dorian Iten, Krenz, etc. Pick one and do it.
begtraps themselves lol
might as well just watch vilppu from day 1 and copy his stuff

>>7070478
I really hope it isn't your stuff anon

[Anonymous No.7070929]

>>7064412
Just look and see for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/live/xzO-Nn_sJnM?si=RBYL9pMRqjXYnHUt&t=91
Short answer is no. They WILL have a set of simplified shapes that they'll use for construction at the start of a drawing, but these shapes are flexible/organic and can change depending on the context (e.g. sometimes you might think of the shoulder as being a separate shape from the torso and sometimes you might think of it as all one thing, it depends on the situation and also on personal preference). No one starts by drawing literal boxes because that's dumb, people aren't made of boxes.

[Anonymous No.7070985]

>>7070915
stuff as in objects? it was setup in a classroom, construction exercise is from yrs ago

[Anonymous No.7071000]

>>7070540
Yeah, I feel like you need to understand anatomy before trying to boil it down to a few strokes.

[Anonymous No.7071485]

>>7070750
>his skill and that of a beg is like 6 months of actively drawing 1 hour a day
pyw little bro

[Anonymous No.7071488]

>>7064385
>/beg/ trap
>/dad/

[Anonymous No.7072059]

>>7069555
>>7069530
The best way is to have someone with a good eye take a look, especially if they can compare your work to your ref. In other words, either have an art teacher or post your work on /ic/ for feedback.

In digital, it’s easy to check it yourself. Just drag your art over the reference to check your accuracy. This video shows how to train accuracy and check it well:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RXb-Y_kz2aU&pp=ygUQZHJhdyBsaWtlIGF2YXRhcg%3D%3D
Just doing that enough times could be an alternative to doing one of those courses/books I mentioned. It should get your eyes up to speed on its own.
>>7066150
If you’re naturally able to see accurately or you just drew for long enough to pick that skill up, then you don’t really need to specifically train it. It's just a lot easier for beginners to hear “hey you gotta be able to see in order to draw. Here’s some resources.” Otherwise they’re kinda left having to figure it out on their own by brute force, and it’s not that intuitive. You don’t have to grind studies unless you want to, but in order to draw something from imagination, you have to be able to tell if it looks fucked or not. The recommendation to train observation and good accuracy isn’t actually about being able to copy. The point is to train your eye to see well. Doing accurate copies and studies from observation is just the tool you use to train your eye. Once you can see, you never have to do it again. That’s fine. The ability to copy accurately per se is not a prerequisite for good drawing or for drawing from imagination. The ability to see, however, is.
>>7070915
What would you recommend instead?

[Anonymous No.7073104]

>>7064385
You must be trolling.
Hampton is incredibly noob friendly, I would recommend it as soon as you know how to (reliably) draw the three basic volumes in perspective and measure things.

[Anonymous No.7073272]

>>7072059
I tried Ethan's thing. I'm confused on how he measures distances. Does he just measure distances of the OG with his eyes and try to guess on the redraw or does he use a tool to measure and use the tool on the redraw?

[Anonymous No.7073285]

>>7065730
>Filtered by drawabox

[Anonymous No.7073529]

My begtrap was how to draw anime tutorials idk about all of you maybe you were smarter than I was

[Anonymous No.7073540]

The biggest /beg/ trap is thinking you need to have a certain skill level first before you're "allowed" to draw.
Just go in raw. Draw what you want. Get better with each drawing you make while actually making a real portfolio instead of hundreds of half-finished sketches.

[Anonymous No.7073925]

>>7064412
>real artists
They trace 3D, even the gook course recommend tracing 3D for advanced artists.
Sure they can draft shit for thumbnailing, but after that they will overlay 3D on top of it and fix the drawing

[Anonymous No.7073940]

>>7072059
In terms of training your eye, how good would this method be:
Say to make it easy, you had a screen tablet like a Cintiq. You're drawing a reference from a picture online, and you finish it. Then you take that reference picture and copypasta it into [PS, CSP, whatever] and put as the layer underneath your drawing to see.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how effective is this? I've been doing it and can see right away how far off my proportions are.

[Anonymous No.7073988]

>>7069530
Just take a pencil and put it on paper, move it in a straight line, and you'll have a straight line, do it a few times until you've figured out what a straight line feels like, then draw some circles until you feel that, then start drawing both to make shapes. Hold the pencil over objects and draw on them from where you're sitting, the TV screen, the bookshelf, just to feel what drawing a line like that feels like, then you can do the same lines on a piece of paper. Do it a bunch of times and you'll get better at it. More about the feeling in your shoulder when you move the pencil and looking at stuff than mental gymnastics and other thinking.

[Anonymous No.7074053]

>>7064412
working with these kinds of shapes should only ever be to make sure a pose / angle works. making them this detailed is a waste of time, but quickly jotting them down before committing to more detail could make or break a piece.

[Anonymous No.7074188]

>>7065730
>>7073285
drawabox is fine for beginners if you have some experience and actually have fun drawing already, and you want to take your skills further by working on your 3D thinking skills. It might be a trap if you're a day-one artist or you are the kind of person who doesn't actually want to draw or enjoys drawing but wants to 'be able to draw'.

[Anonymous No.7074614]

>>7073940
Anyone? Or is this a sqt type question??

[Anonymous No.7074886]

>>7074614
>>7073940
>I've been doing it and can see right away how far off my proportions are.
If it works for you...
If you're a beginner getting close to the reference shouldn't be your main concern, is not irrelevant, but is one of those things you improve just by drawing. And if you're not copying references will eventually cease to be useful.