/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6982012]

So all I have to do is copy this nigga Bridgman twice and I'll go from /beg/ to /int/? If it's really that simple, why doesn't everyone do it?

[Anonymous No.6982016]

>>6982012
no, bridgman is a meme

[Anonymous No.6982019]

>>6982012
>If it's really that simple, why doesn't everyone do it?
Because you touch yourself at night

[Anonymous No.6982029]

(also it will at best bring your figure drawings from /beg/ to high /beg/), Bridgman doesn't cover anything other than figures and there is so much more to this shit. You need the timeless versatility of Loomis and the Authority of Hogarth to achieve your goals.

[Anonymous No.6982055]

>>6982012
It takes a lot of stamina, plus the results are not overnight. This filters 90% of the human race

[Anonymous No.6982056]

>>6982012
>if it’s really that simple, why doesn’t everyone do it

Because it takes a long, long time and a lot of dedication. I started my first run a little over two years ago, and I’m still not done

>>6982029
Bullshit. He literally has a section dedicated to drapery, heads, and every individual body part. Doing Bridgman will increase your figure drawing skills immensely

I also think it’s hilarious you’re calling Loomis timeless when his art is clearly a product of the era. He’s still worth copying, as is Hogarth, but no need to put Bridgman down

[Anonymous No.6982059]

>>6982029
+ Bridgman incorporates perspective into a lot of his drawings, which is necessary for more than figures. You’re tripping

[Anonymous No.6982065]

>>6982012
David Finch's most misunderstood advice. It's to strengthen your anatomy knowledge so you go from intermediate to advanced.

[Anonymous No.6982073]

>>6982012
Only if you want to draw ugly tranny-faced capeshit.

[Anonymous No.6982086]

It's a really hideous waste of time for people who don't think. In fact, all these "rep games" are for people who don't think.
There isn't anything significant in the number 2, or 3, or 5, 6, 10, 100, 1000. Drawing is to a great extent an intellectual exercise, and you can't flatly map weightlifting regimens onto it and expect results. Of course you need to put in the time however you can, this should be obvious, but thoughtlessly copying is not a good use of your time, especially when you don't even understand what is that you're copying (Bridgman is notoriously confusing for beginners).
Identify a problem, and fix it. Hands suck? Find a few Bridgman hand drawings and study them alongside photos of hands, your own hands, clean anatomy drawings of hands, or artistic simplifications of hands. You'd get so much more out of studying 3 Bridgman hand drawings with a specific goal in mind, than you would copying his entire oeuvre of chicken scrawl like an automaton.

[Anonymous No.6982153]

>>6982012
Copying over 1000 drawings, twice. Yeah. You will be well on your way... To being good at copying bridgman, and maybe have a leg up in drawing figures from life. But that's not the advice. That's just the meme. It's part of David Finch's roadmap. You are meant to be familiar with anatomy already before you start bridgeman, and you are supposed to be always drawing your own shit the entire journey too, not just studying.
It's retarded to wait to be good before you start drawing what you actually want to draw "when you are good", you aren't retarded are you anon?

[Anonymous No.6982170]

>>6982153
Copying over 1000 drawings twice, plus from imagination, will give you a leg up not only in your figure drawings, but in your shape knowledge, perspective knowledge, general anatomy, etc. You don’t just “get good at copying Bridgman” and you saying this proves to me you haven’t even started this.

[Anonymous No.6982174]

>>6982170
you can also do that from a good book like Xiao Wei Chun

[Anonymous No.6982178]

>>6982174
Well of course. Thanks for introducing me to that

I just disagree with the whole “you only get good at copying Bridgman point” because it’s just so untrue. He teaches a lot of general knowledge that can be applied to life drawings and other subject matters too. He isn’t a meme at all

[Anonymous No.6982224]

>>6982086
>>6982153
Absolutely useless advice as always.

[Anonymous No.6982226]

>>6982224
go ahead and waste your time for nothing, retard

[Anonymous No.6982231]

>>6982226
Quit giving stupid advice, retard.

[Anonymous No.6982232]

>>6982224
>Absolutely useless advice as always.
I'd consider these good advice. One goes into mindset and the other into the meme vs Finch's intent.

post your advice (you wont)

[Anonymous No.6982238]

>>6982232
I bet you're the same retard who tells people to just draw.

[Anonymous No.6982246]

>>6982231
Why is there always a true believer mouthbreather like you, who gets offended when someone dares criticize your meme method? Have you done this retarded mindless copying exercise, to provably good results? What exactly gives you such confidence in it? Because a "pro" said to do it?
I want to move beyond the meme and see empirical results, because I've yet to.

[Anonymous No.6982251]

>>6982246
Quit giving stupid advice, retard.

[Anonymous No.6982252]

>>6982251
The automaton, ladies and gentleman

[Anonymous No.6982255]

>>6982252
The only reasonable reply to your retarded comments.

[Anonymous No.6982256]

>>6982238
>he didn't post advice
Thanks for conceding. My advice is good.

[Anonymous No.6982259]

its not a book for beginners

[Anonymous No.6982260]

>>6982255
Happy with your art progress?

[Anonymous No.6982265]

>>6982065
This got no attention but it's very simple and true.

[Anonymous No.6982282]

>>6982170
>>6982178
You missed the point, this is a response to the meme advice, copy Bridgman twice. Not the Finch Advice.
I don't think someone copying it twice from /beg/ without doing anything else will become /int/, especially not if they skip the memory drawing part of the original advice(notice how you added that memory bit in? I didn't include it because the meme omits that).
I had already studied Jeno Barcasy, Bammes and Kevin Chen, before I studied Bridgman.
Knowing anatomy beforehand makes Bridgman a great resource, not knowing it could make you frustrated as a beg.

[Anonymous No.6982294]

>>6982012
You won't get to /int/ just by copying Bridgman Twice. The whole book can be copied in a week if you're really dedicated. The memory pass takes 3 weeks. 1 month isn't enough to be anywhere near good at drawing.

[Anonymous No.6982295]

>>6982294
>The whole book can be copied in a week
No it can't, especially not by a beg

[Anonymous No.6982301]

Interesting how this thread has a lot of opinions and no works posted. Makes it absolutely useless.

[Anonymous No.6982302]

>>6982294
>The whole book can be copied in a week if you're really dedicated. The memory pass takes 3 weeks.
I would LOVE to see what your Bridgman drawings look like if you're blazing through this book twice in a month.

[Anonymous No.6982307]

>>6982295
>>6982302
ngmi

[Anonymous No.6982311]

>>6982307
Post your Bridgman copies done in a week

[Anonymous No.6982319]

>>6982295
1000 drawings, 142 per day, 7 days. at 8 hours a day, 3-4 minutes per copy and you could be done in a week.(math checks out)
Begs would not be fast enough to copy all the lines in the more involved drawings in 4 minutes though, so might have to push the hours up.

(not financial advice)

[Anonymous No.6982322]

>>6982319
You think an int or even a pro could do this in 4 minutes?

[Anonymous No.6982323]

>>6982322
That isnt a bridgman drawing you gigantic faggot

[Anonymous No.6982333]

>>6982323
lol page 138 must not exist

[Favid Dinch No.6982337]

>>6982301
Starting Point:
Get “How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way” by Stan Lee and John Buscema.
Learn basic shapes that make up a figure (e.g., a vest shape for the chest, underwear shape for the pelvis).
Draw a proportion diagram.

Gesture Drawing:
Start gesture drawing using comics or photographs as references.
Make it a part of your daily study routine.

Anatomy:
Start learning anatomy.
Use good anatomical references or books.
Draw different parts of the body each day (arms, legs, torsos, backs, necks).

Bridgman’s Guide:
After you have learned to draw all the muscles, Get a copy of George Bridgman’s Guide To Life Drawing.
Draw the entire book twice, once directly copying, and once looking and drawing from memory.

Time between needed before advancing a stage will vary person to person. This is also not an exhaustive list to "getting good".

[Anonymous No.6982338]

>>6982319
Not to mention, most of the drawings are just fragments of figures. Hands, torsos, thighs, the book is actually very sparse on content. Copying Hogarth would be 10x harder

[Anonymous No.6982343]

>>6982333
This? I think a pro could do it in maybe 10 minutes. it's one of the most complex in the book outside of a ribcage drawing.

[Anonymous No.6982355]

>>6982319
You're not supposed to copy the lines, that would be an unbelievable waste of time. You're supposed to copy it using construction. Also, you're not supposed to copy the "rendering" (more like smudges and eventual hatching), just the tridimensional forms.

[Anonymous No.6982360]

>>6982355
>You're supposed to copy it using construction
"construction" is vague. What do you really mean by that? I just picked a random page, what is your process for copying this? at most I might do a few light lines to keep proportions in check.

[Anonymous No.6982367]

>>6982360
this is why you don't skip "How to draw comics the marvel way" lol

[Anonymous No.6982383]

>>6982367
I actually wanted you to explain *your* construction process. I know many ways to do construction, and don't really think it's needed for copying bridgman. You are the first person I've seen suggest that. Dave Rapoza said he would copy the lines, sometimes up to 18 times for a single drawing. no construction involved.

[Anonymous No.6982389]

>>6982383
*just occurred to me proko said this, who you are probably parroting. I'd take his advice with a grain of salt. I don't think he studied bridgman much, nor internalized form well. He can copy sure...

[Anonymous No.6982391]

>>6982383
i want you to listen the "many" ways you do construction. no, seriously, please do it. tell me how each method is distinct from one another.

[Anonymous No.6982400]

>>6982360
I'm the poster you were responding to. The answer is in the image. You're supposed to draw the bones as a structure and build up from there, drawing the individual muscles with attention to their respective insertion points. I am not the only one to say that, I'm pretty sure you can find David Finch and Jeffrey Watts saying that on lives. Also, how the fuck would you copy the lines in the memory pass? Makes no sense. Another thing that makes no sense is practicing in a different way that the one you're used to drawing. When you do life drawings, or draw from imagination, do you draw line by line? If not, how the fuck copying Bridgman line by line would have any effects on your art?

[Anonymous No.6982402]

>>6982400
Also, this is so evident that most books don't even explain that, on account of not deeming its readers retards, but it's still obvious from the images. Take Morpho, as a contemporary example. You see the construction lines in all the drawings. Do you really think you're supposed to copy line by line instead of emulating the way the artist drew them?

[Anonymous No.6982403]

>>6982400
>used to drawing
I look at references, close my eyes, conjure up the image in my head, quickly scribble something down which us a hodgepodge of gesture and contour, then do refining passes until it looks how I want. Is this how you'd propose I copy Birdgman?

[Anonymous No.6982407]

>>6982391
>many? waaaa!!!
Ok, here is 6 ways. stick figures, gesture, boxes/basic forms, contour, massing.
maybe you don't consider some of these "construction"?
I'm not going to waste my time explaining how these are different, ask chat gpt.

[Anonymous No.6982409]

>>6982400
So when David finch said copy the book cover to cover, he also meant build up the drawings so the result is more like >>6982322 ? how does that make sense? and what is the memory pass in that? I know Dave Rapoza copied line for line, I remember his sketchbooks. it helped him develop a sense for drawing those body parts from his head in an appealing manner.

[Anonymous No.6982410]

>>6982407
if your understanding of drawing is that shallow you have no right to be telling others how to study bridgman

[Anonymous No.6982416]

>>6982410
I am responding to others saying how, I'm questioning their methods. I didn't say only copy, I posted >>6982337. copying only without understanding will not help as much.

[Anonymous No.6982417]

>>6982383
>>6982389
>>6982403
>>6982407
>>6982409
This thread should be nuked to avoid the risk of a beg reading this and getting permanent brain damage as a result, impairing forever their ability to draw.

[Anonymous No.6982418]

>>6982410
>if your understanding of drawing is that shallow
nta but could you elaborate on this? what could be said that would indicate deep understanding?

[Anonymous No.6982423]

>>6982417
What do you think someone would take from those posts? there is no advice there. just questions, that anons seem to be unable to give straight answers to.

[Anonymous No.6982429]

>>6982417
lol, yeah, /ic/ is the dumbest board on this site.

[Anonymous No.6982434]

>lol you dumb
>refuses to elaborate
>>6982429
Indeed it is.

[Anonymous No.6982437]

>>6982418
idk but when someone tells me to do “contour” and “massing” i immediately label them as a brainlet.

Nicolaides-tier slop

[Anonymous No.6982450]

>>6982437

[Anonymous No.6982454]

>>6982450
You’re pissing on Baumann’s name if you think he agrees with what you stand for. Nicolaides’ book should be outlawed and burned from all libraries

[Anonymous No.6982456]

>>6982454
I clipped that face from his mass drawing video a few weeks ago.

[Anonymous No.6982459]

>>6982456
Massing is not shadow massing. Theyre two different concepts which once again proves to me you have a low resolution view of the art world

[Anonymous No.6982464]

>>6982459
Ok, you got me, I have not read nicolaides, I was asked for some methods, I listed some I could think of(not endorsements), and shadow massing was on my mind because of Stephen's vid. what is "Massing" in nicolaides?

[Anonymous No.6982467]

Ok where do I start if I can only draw stick people though?

[Anonymous No.6982469]

>>6982337
Here. >>6982467
https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

[Anonymous No.6982470]

>>6982464
If you actually want help, post your bridg copies and maybe an experienced anon can help. This argument we’re having is totally unproductive

[Anonymous No.6982472]

>>6982417
Too late LMAO
I've seen so many dumbfuck retards, here and everywhere like shitcord, mindlessly copy this kike's scribbles with 0 understanding of anything because they're JRPG NPCs.
Wasted effort. But gets rid of potential competitors so I let that happen.

[Anonymous No.6982476]

>>6982472
nobody there said to copy them mindlessly.
questioning one method is not endorsing the other. use your brain.

[Anonymous No.6982481]

>>6982472
Shut up, retard.

[Anonymous No.6982485]

>>6982470
... I just asked a question about nicolaides. if you'd answered it straight, there would have been production here. I'm assuming it's some kind of silhouette block in. I did a quick google but nothing came up.

[Anonymous No.6982788]

>>6982086
most legit advice in the thread

[Anonymous No.6982804]

>>6982472
delusional

[Anonymous No.6982835]

[Anonymous No.6982840]

>>6982835
Kek

[Anonymous No.6982875]

>>6982012
Everyone in this thread is an insufferable self-sabotaging fuck. Do you really think you wont see ANY improvement from copying a whole book from a master of anatomy + doing your own drawings?

[Anonymous No.6982878]

>>6982875
>>6982174

[Anonymous No.6982887]

>>6982878
if a different book works then so be it? i just personally like bridgeman. ive tried hampton and vilpuu and couldnt stick with either. if xiao ling works for you who am i to tell you its wrong?

[Anonymous No.6982889]

>>6982012
Anons here will literally do anything but draw, and if they do draw it's only by being dragged kicking and screaming until they shit out a /beg/ level naked cartoon girl.
I'm gonna be real OP, the majority of the population is fucking retarded. We still have a peasant class and it will never disappear. Getting food at 2 things makes you more competent than 80% of people, and mastering something puts you in the top 1%.

[Anonymous No.6982891]

>>6982875
Why are you mad at a strawman?

[Anonymous No.6982902]

>>6982891
what is the strawman? OPs question? I just think more nodraws here give shitty advice on what they think is right when there's really np one objective answer. Copy bridgeman if you want. Or dont. Youre not NGMI because you didnt. You might just learn something or gain a new way on how to go about the figure. Cetainly "well of course not its a /BEG/ trap and you should do x instead!" just muddies the water and makes it more difficult for someone to apply themselves

[Anonymous No.6982911]

>>6982902
You need at least 2 executive functions to GMI:
1. the self-awareness and self-criticalness to narrow down the total range of *possible* solutions to a subset of *probable* *successful* solutions
2. the willingness to test all sorts of hypotheses, even those that may prove wrong, and in spite of what others think; i.e. trial and error proneness, aka the Just Fuck It Let's Go approach

Thus, you can veto any advice you deem retarded, no matter who from, if your will and self belief are strong enough. And you may turn out to be right! The issue is that it often feels like anons are just not thinking like the captain of their own ship, they're slavishly going through the motions because some fag in big britches told them to. Go into each task with more of an exploratory mindset where anything is possible, and plans can be radically changed in response to newly uncovered information, rather than committing to the arbitrary idea of copying an entire book 2 times.

[Anonymous No.6982918]

>>6982911
To put it simply, anons may be conscientious and committed enough, hard working and methodical, but are inflexible in their thinking. They're not running a constant self-diagnosis script to see if ERROR ERROR ERROR is coming through. They can't adapt to new incoming info, which is fatal in all creative endeavors. It just wastes a ton of fucking time and energy using the same failed strategies and calcified channels when they're clearly not cutting it.

[Anonymous No.6982957]

>>6982911
i think a bigger issue here is most people dont practice enough to know what works and what doesnt they'd rather sit on /ic/ discussing the best tactics for the best gainzzz

[Anonymous No.6983024]

>>6982174
incredible that even though bridgman naturally has a chinkman counterpart you'd all rather worship this anime-adjacent book of fake diablo concept art instead as the zenith of anatomical prowess, mindfucked the lot of you

[Anonymous No.6983025]

>>6983024
>Anime board
>Anime site

[Anonymous No.6983032]

>>6983025
i dont care he's still retarded or a shill

[Anonymous No.6983034]

>>6983032
Yeah I'm sure he gets commission every time that book gets pirated

[Anonymous No.6983038]

>>6983034
+25 grains of guandong rice have been deposited in your food account

[Anonymous No.6983049]

>>6983038
upboated kind stranger!

[Anonymous No.6983070]

>>6982012
yes

[Anonymous No.6983077]

>>6983049
uhm, no sweetie, you are the reddit here

[Anonymous No.6983134]

>>6982012
>why doesn't everyone do it?
Because copying it once is not enough, you have to do it thousands of times, spending 5 or more hours a day.

[Anonymous No.6983163]

>>6982012
I feel the average advice thread on /ic/ would benefit from /adv/fags also posting their work along with their art advice. I would much more quickly weed out who is and isn't worth listening too.

[Anonymous No.6983250]

>>6983163
I feel any advice from an anonymous group masturbation forum is only worth more than a grain of salt if real people have endorsed it. Like how David Finch, Frank Frazetta, and Dave Rapoza have done the same excersize, and even fucking Loomis has studied from the book. If you have to question the validity of this book, which is the foundation of artistic tradition in America coming from France, then you should probably keep touching yourself

[Anonymous No.6983388]

>>6982337
I refuse to use capeshit as reference

[Anonymous No.6983410]

>>6983163
This, taking advice from the deviantART tier begs in here is like taking car advice from someone that doesn't even know how to change their tires.

[Anonymous No.6983470]

>>6982086
Pyw (I know you won't)

[Anonymous No.6983473]

>>6982294
It blows me away that people actually say the book can be copied in a week. If you’re rushing and not trying to learn anything, absolutely. A majority of people doing this won’t do it in a week though, that’s ridiculous

[Anonymous No.6983482]

>>6983473
I would’ve said the same thing as you before, but the “big” bridgman book doesnt actually have that many diagrams in it. Try it for yourself, it’s a very short book. It has the same amount of content as two small Bridgman books

If you want everything Bridgman ever did, get the smaller books. They amount to about 5x the content

[Anonymous No.6983485]

>>6983482
Not the same anon, but which ones?

[Anonymous No.6983495]

>>6983485
Constructive anatomy
Human machine
Hundred hands (actually has like 700+ hands)
Life drawing
Head drawing
Drapery

The “1000” diagrams number for the big book includrs every little thing including the pulleys, fingers, mouldings, etc. wo its actually closer to like 500 significant plates

[Anonymous No.6983499]

>i need to copy some schizo's drawing twice to draw my big booba anime girls
it's so over

[Anonymous No.6983503]

>>6983495
HMMPH, that's a ton of books, anon.
Not that I'm opposed to studying them all (I have a dayjob :C), but which one would be the most all-encompassing if I want to copy Bridgeman twice?

[Anonymous No.6983518]

>>6983499
then copy your favorite manga twice instead you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.6983523]

>>6983024
Got a link?

[Anonymous No.6983525]

>>6983503
Not that anon, but this is the one I’m using.

http://carlosdamascenodesenhos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Bridgman-George-Bridgemans-Complete-Guide-To-Drawing-From-Life.pdf

[Anonymous No.6983529]

Probably a stupid question but when doing the 2nd pass or the memory pass for Bridgman, do you have to straight up draw the figures from complete memory from start to finish without looking at the book? Or copy a figure again then try to draw it from memory?

[Anonymous No.6983531]

>>6983529
read the roadmap

[Anonymous No.6983533]

>>6983529
David Finch says the former. Drawing the figure and then drawing it from memory could be helpful, I just think that the second time through your goal should be to sharpen your imaginative drawing skills and that may hinder it, especially since you already drew those drawings the first run, so you’re really doing 3 runs by copying them again lol

To each their own though. Just do what works for you.

[Anonymous No.6983534]

>>6983529
Let me also add that you’re supposed to look at the figure and then draw it from memory, not completely guess what it looks like. Just read the roadmap.

https://davidfinchart.com/where-to-start-and-where-to-go-from-there-a-roadmap-to-professional-quality-art/

[Anonymous No.6983552]

>>6983250
Pyw

[Anonymous No.6983553]

so i'm supposed to just draw each drawing? multiple times or just once then move on? seems like a fun thing to do on days where I don't know what to draw

[Anonymous No.6983558]

i don't get how this will make me better

[Anonymous No.6983569]

>>6983558
do you know what will make you better?

[Anonymous No.6983571]

>>6983569
currently? i've been learning how to break down anatomy into simple shapes. been helping me so far

[Anonymous No.6983578]

>>6983553
Draw every drawing in the book, ideally once (you’ll probably burn out if you try doing them multiple times, it’s 1000+ drawings)

Then the second time through, look at the drawing, then put it away and draw it from imagination.

[Anonymous No.6983584]

>>6983578
Sorry for all these spoon-feedy questions, but what exactly should I be getting out of it? I'm having a hard time believing just copying all those drawings will make me better

[Anonymous No.6983588]

>>6983525
Thank you, fren!

[Anonymous No.6983604]

>>6983571
>>6983584
It's a proxy (i.e. bruteforcing) for learning the 'simple shapes'. You're internalizing the solution Bridgman uses for abstracting anatomical forms.

You can figure them out yourself but for the average /beg/ brute-forcing it like this takes less work and thought.

[Anonymous No.6983635]

>>6983604
You sure are insufferable. Shut the fuck up already.

[Anonymous No.6983663]

>>6983584
>I'm having a hard time believing just copying all those drawings will make me better
It will help build your muscle memory the more you do it so you can improve your own drawings in the future.

[Anonymous No.6983798]

>>6982065
Yeah, Bridgman is way too obscure for begginers. I've browsed it yesterday and it has some interresting ideas despite being a bit blocky and/or too much stylized to my taste.

[Anonymous No.6984547]

>>6983798
>too obscure
what does this even mean? are lines scary to analyze now?