/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6925239]

Seriously, how does this happen?

[Anonymous No.6925256]

>>6925239
Complete tunnel vision of fundamental concepts like shake design and comic panelling to the detriment of actual aesthetic appeal.

You can just tell how when he designed these characters, he wasn't thinking about cuteness or any sort of appeal, he was thinking "simple shape: circle, triangle". When he designed the panelling he wasn't thinking about anything other than being unique and quirky with popout panels and popout speech bubbles.

I think perhaps the most striking thing.. are the literal polygons on the last panel. This man who is so distracted by basic fundamentals, has become completely incapable of thinking of any interesting story to this little comic whatsoever, the only thing that is on his mind as he made this comic.... polygons.

An artist must spend the first 10 years of his life in the atelier to learn the necessary skills, but if he wants to actually produce anything worthwhile it is imperative that he leave the nest behind.

[Anonymous No.6925259]

>>6925256
shape*

[Anonymous No.6925261]

Proko is proof you dont need talent

[Anonymous No.6925266]

>>6925239
If you don't spend time drawing from imagination, your ability to draw from imagination won't improve.

[Anonymous No.6925297]

Sometimes as an artist, you have an idea that speaks to you so much you simply must put it on page asap.
If you actually drew, you would know that.

[Anonymous No.6925308]

>>6925239
he copies, even his "figure constructions" are built on a foundation of copying, theyre not built on a foundation of perspective or any kind of perspective understanding

[Anonymous No.6925313]

>>6925239
spend years of your life only using realistic references without drawing from imagination, while also being too proud to study work from cartoon artists

...

then try to draw a cartoon

[Anonymous No.6925317]

>>6925308
thing is vilppu also did the same for years

[Anonymous No.6925337]

I hate the cheesy punchline but I think it's well done. Would unironically subscribe if it was a webtoon and if it had better jokes. Looks pretty cool to me and I don't get why people are shitting on this.

[Anonymous No.6925359]

>>6925239
I thought this was ai for a second

[Anonymous No.6925404]

>>6925239
There are no tutorials on appeal.

[Anonymous No.6925406]

When you're terrified of drawing something you haven't spent 10 years studying. He has no actual experience drawing, he only xeroxes. Its like playing at the batting cages for years and never learning the rules of baseball, then you are suddenly in a game and you can't hit a single ball.

[Anonymous No.6925433]

>>6925239
Making comics from your imagination is very different from making realistic paintings from reference. Obviously, proko has a lot of experience with the latter but next to none with the former, and his attempt here makes that obvious.

[Anonymous No.6925525]

>>6925256
If I wasn't a lazy fuck who's here precisely to procrastinate instead of doing any actual work or art, I would search the archives because I'm 99% sure we had this thread before and the first post was exactly this kind of verbose armchair psychoanalysis

anyway, it's cute. I bet his kids loved it. seems like a good dad
I guess

[Anonymous No.6925567]

>be a beginner in cartoon
>be not good at it

who would have thought. Surely butch hartman would be good at fine art on his first attempt, right? surely /ic/ is

[Anonymous No.6925581]

>>6925567
Shut the fuck up faggot, proko, and all of his parrots always preach
>first you have to learn the fundies, then you break then, it'll much easier!

And then he does this

[Anonymous No.6925585]

>>6925567
whats more important tho

[Anonymous No.6925594]

>>6925239
Even the howie comic has more appeal than this lol

[Anonymous No.6925613]

>>6925567
Going off topic here - Obviously that drawing is good and everything but proportionally speaking it makes me feel like I'm looking at a buff midget. Is it just me or is it wack?

[Anonymous No.6925636]

>>6925613
Head too big, proko preaches theory while not having internalized it

[Anonymous No.6925677]

>>6925256
>10 years
Try 4, like how the actual Russian academics did it

[Anonymous No.6925692]

Hasn't he improved his cartooning since this? Could've sworn I've seen revent videos from his channel which showed good cartoon art

[Anonymous No.6925698]

>>6925337
Ur dead serious aren’t u

[Anonymous No.6925702]

>>6925581
Even then, a lot of that is probably thinking of creaking original art more akin to superhero comics in the vein of Marvel and DC than "actual" cartooning, as in breaking the rules of realistic figures isn't creating the next Mickey Mouse, but rather creating something like The Incredible Hulk, a character who is still fundamentally based on most of the tenets of realistic human figure drawing, just with "broken" proportions and musculature/skeletal structures pushed to the extreme. As in, I imagine Proko would have better luck creating an X-Men comic book cover than he would trying to draw Mickey Mouse hugging Minnie.

[Anonymous No.6925717]

>>6925239
>we need guns
Is Proko a chud?

[Anonymous No.6925732]

>>6925636
I’ve heard that people tend to give their figures features similar to their own. Is proko short? His head is kind of big.

[Anonymous No.6925739]

>>6925256
Or rather, prioritizing following guidelines instead of actually using them for your benefit
The character designs are made to follow a design principle rather than using that principle to make the designs look good

[Anonymous No.6925794]

>>6925256
Fpbp. This is soulless garbage. It tells me nothing about the author except how uncreative and in dire need of comedy writing classes he is.
Has Proko ever produced something of soul?

[Anonymous No.6925828]

>>6925717
An Ukrainian

[Anonymous No.6925848]

>hmm let's start with a box
>what do I know about boxes?
>jack in the box
I love proko

[Anonymous No.6925852]

>>6925613
I think is the pose is a bit awkward, he is laning his torso towards the POV. Also the butt being so small and heavy shadowed makes the upper body seem tok big

[Anonymous No.6925992]

>>6925239
By doing nothing but drawing strictly realistic figures from reference.
It's shocking though that even the comic's composition is terrible - the 180 degree rule is broken, the layout is hideous, the character's expression's don't work. But before everything else, he should work on drawing appealing characters, because those dog's are just unappealing.
I wonder if he doesn't have any taste (in cartoons) to distinguish whether this was good or bad?

[Anonymous No.6926000]

>>6925239
he got lost in the sauce

[Anonymous No.6926004]

>Cute, triangular dog design from the front
>proportions turn realistic out of no where when he's looking for guns
really weird

[Anonymous No.6926077]

>>6925567
>those proportions
OH NO NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.6926085]

>>6925239
some people are just not creative. I went to art high school and we students fell in 2 categories:
-great at anatomy and realism, can't draw without reference (now do portrait commissions or painting copies)
-very basic anatomy, bad at realism, can draw ideas on the spot (now do illustration, graphic or concept design, pottery)

[Anonymous No.6926329]

>>6926077
>crab finds out some people have different proportions than the ideal he learned in his books

[Anonymous No.6926332]

>>6925828
Underrated

[Anonymous No.6926345]

>>6925239
>all those replies in this thread
>not even one asked the important question
WHEN was this made by proko? Is it recent? From a decade ago? From his college years? High school? Without that knowledge there's nothing to be said about it.

[Anonymous No.6926346]

>>6926085
Find you a man that can do both.
Being good at realism doesn't mean you can't be a good cartoonist & vice versa.

[Anonymous No.6926348]

>>6926345
It's from like 2017-19 or sumn'

[Anonymous No.6926433]

>>6925567
what's better, bad proportions but amazing linework, or bad linework but perfect anatomy?

[Anonymous No.6926437]

>>6926433
Subjective

[Anonymous No.6926444]

>>6926437
>what's 2+2?
>its subjective maaaan just like find your feelings n shit....

[Anonymous No.6926445]

>>6925239
His slavic accent probably guns is more pronounced like gons.

[Anonymous No.6926450]

>>6926444
>what's better, pizza or hamburger?
>there's a wrong answer
Fucking American

[Anonymous No.6926606]

>>6926437
>used the magic word
opinion rejected

[Anonymous No.6926609]

>>6926433
first you mention proportions, then you mention anatomy. They're different things man.

[Anonymous No.6926681]

>>6926606
>bug has no subjective opinions only accepts things that's been parroted to it
Can't even say opinion rejected here can I

[Anonymous No.6926701]

>>6926345
>newfag exposes himself

[Anonymous No.6926780]

So /ic/, how does one learn about comic storytelling?

[Anonymous No.6926784]

>>6926780

[Anonymous No.6926787]

>>6926433
The latter is better by far. If you have truly bad(not just stylized) anatomy and proportions, your drawing is ugly no matter what. A perfect figure can make up for wobbly or chicken scratch lines.

[Anonymous No.6926797]

>>6926784
Hahahaha yeah sure bro "you just 'do' it, you know" which leads to the fucking disaster in the OP picture. There's obviously structure in how visuals and words flow

[Anonymous No.6926942]

>>6926797

[Anonymous No.6927037]

>>6926780
By making comics. A lot of them.
t. pro comic author

[Anonymous No.6927041]

>>6926797
You don't avoid disasters like the OP picture. You have to fail, so you can learn from it. The only thing Proko's doing wrong comic-wise is that he isn't making hundreds or thousands more. His work is okay for a comic beginner. Riddled with flaws, but flaws that can be learned from.

[Anonymous No.6927121]

>>6925239
Hello leftist cringe comic

[Anonymous No.6927257]

>>6927041
>flaws that can be learned from
A lot of people don't actually learn this way. He obviously thought that the comic looked good enough to share with the world even as a professional artist and art instructor, so if he were to make another comic page, it would look the same, because chances are he doesn't actually see what's wrong with it. He was formally instructed in realism, and as such was likely the recipient of regular critique and correction, so any inability to self analyze would be irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.6927263]

Prokobros...

[Anonymous No.6927270]

>>6927263
I cant believe Proko is antisemitic...

[Anonymous No.6927285]

>>6926784
Why do people post this for every "how" question?
It makes sense for fundamentals, where there's is no "knowing how to do it". You just have to do it and develop the skill.
Comic storytelling is different, though. You can't grind comic storytelling ability.

[Anonymous No.6927287]

>>6926780
read comics
read storyboards
watch movies/anime and storyboard them shot by shot. you can try turning those into panels as well
araki’s book is really good.

[Anonymous No.6927295]

>>6926346
That’s my goal

[Anonymous No.6927382]

>>6927285
it’s not about grinding at all, you might be autistic

[Anonymous No.6927392]

>>6927285
>You can't grind comic storytelling ability.
You absolutely can, but you're looking at it the wrong way if you're looking at it in terms of "grinding".
You just have to make stuff. Lots of stuff. Analyze the thing you made, apply what you learned in the next thing. Same as drawing. You can improve over time by simply practicing -- and by "practicing" I mean in the sense that a doctor is in "practice" rather than in the rehearsal-before-the-real-thing sense people mostly mean when they use the word. Make stuff, the real thing, and really try every time and you will gradually improve.

[Anonymous No.6928170]

Does it really matter if he made a dumb comic or if he did some weird creature a while back? I'm not saying you should go draw but surely you have something better to do with your time?

[Anonymous No.6928180]

>>6927041

[Anonymous No.6928945]

>>6925239
how does what happen? dogs dont talk. you saw nothing.

[Anonymous No.6928960]

>>6927392
>You can improve over time by simply practicing -- and by "practicing" I mean in the sense that a doctor is in "practice" rather than in the rehearsal-before-the-real-thing sense people mostly mean when they use the word. Make stuff, the real thing, and really try every time and you will gradually improve.
I've never thought of the word practice in that way but I like it a lot.

[Anonymous No.6928975]

>>6927285
They’re the same people that post “just draw” in response to everything. They do it because they desperately want to be part of a conversation without saying anything.

[Anonymous No.6928976]

>>6928975
They say it because you lot aren't drawing enough you retard

[Anonymous No.6929678]

>>6928976
Are you retarded or have you just not seen the image that shows some guy, “just drawing” for years while making no progress

[Anonymous No.6930052]

>>6929678
not him, but you are under the mistaken belief everyone has the same potential and will progress indefinitely
just like studying math won’t make everyone world class mathematicians, neither will studying art, a special math course isn’t going to change that for math any more than it will for art
proficiency isn’t a human right, it’s a privilege

[Anonymous No.6932826]

>>6925239
whoa, it says a lot about our society. who's the author again?

[Anonymous No.6935309]

Bumpin

[Anonymous No.6937061]

>>6925239
wtf i just realized the dog in the last panel is biting on a polygon, and isn't an absurdly drawn big mouth.

[Anonymous No.6937277]

>>6925613
I swear Ive drawn that model before and he just has weird proportions. that coupled with him fucking up the proportions in the drawing just makes it look extra fucked.

[Anonymous No.6937295]

>>6925256
these are not "designed characters" these are his real life dogs

[Anonymous No.6937298]

>>6925239
why the fuck she have realism teeth so ugly

[Anonymous No.6937301]

>>6925828
"Ukrainian" doesn't start with a vowel, so you need "a" and not "an"

[Anonymous No.6937303]

>>6925567
butch hartman sucks at drawing cartoons too. All of those designs were done by people cleaning up his work and making it look halfway decent. The dud is a hack.

[Anonymous No.6937304]

>>6925992
>the 180 degree rule is broken
is it? walle dog is always on the right

[Anonymous No.6937351]

>>6937301
>"Ukrainian" doesn't start with a vowel

[Anonymous No.6937407]

>>6937351
are you retarded or larping as an ESL? Or do you think it's pronounce "ooh-crane"?!?

[Anonymous No.6937414]

>>6937407
I don't know how the fuck are you pronouncing "Ukrainian", but it absolutely starts with a vowel.

[Anonymous No.6937416]

>>6927041
The truth that mostt won't accept. All the doomposting on this board is due to big ego or even narcissism. You have to be willing to embarass yourself. This is also what what keeps the 100% study nerd from "just drawing". Studies are great but you can hide behind them well. Accept that you are a beginner.

[Anonymous No.6937417]

>>6937407
>the long u phoneme isn't a vowel

[Anonymous No.6939836]

bump

[Anonymous No.6939858]

>>6937414
>>6937417
samefag cunt retard

it's obviously "a Ukrainian" like "a yolked" not "an yolked"

[Anonymous No.6939861]

>>6937414
In English, the "YOO" sound in YOO-krayn (as it's pronounced in English) functions as a consonant. "An yoo-kraynian" sounds unnatural, "A yoo-kraynian" does not. In the case of determining whether to use "a" or "an", it's not about what the letter is, it's about how the letter is pronounced. While "u" is absolutely a vowel, the sound it's pronounced with here is not.
Shouldn't need to be said, but t. native english speaker

[Anonymous No.6939871]

>>6927041
autist, the point of the thread is not "proko making a shitty comic" the disaster is "proko making a shitty comic despite spending decades on drawing, having a career in art education and being formally educated in art"

[Anonymous No.6939874]

>>6939858
sounds like something a American would say.

[Anonymous No.6939880]

>>6939871
Anon the issue with that page is not the drawings. They're not particularly good, the dude is clearly lacking in cartooning skills, but they're good enough for what he's going for. The issue is that the dude has no idea what he's doing when it comes to putting together a coherent comic page. Being able to draw does not mean being able to pen a good comic, because it employs entirely separate skills from illustration. And there is next to no such thing as a "formal education in art" that will make you better at making comics, at least not on his side of the Pacific.
The post you're calling "autistic" for not responding to the "point of the thread" is quite clearly a direct response to the post he's replying to, not the thread as a whole.

[Anonymous No.6939885]

Hey Art Enthusiasts,

I've been grappling with an intriguing notion lately and wanted to toss it into our creative melting pot for discussion. It's the paradox of seasoned artists occasionally producing work that, by their own standards or the expectations of others, might be considered "bad" or less impressive.

One angle to consider is the artist's perpetual pursuit of growth and experimentation. Seasoned creators, despite their mastery of certain techniques, often find themselves pushing boundaries and trying new things. In this process, the result may not always align with conventional standards of "good" art. It's the willingness to step into the unknown, take risks, and sometimes stumble that can lead to groundbreaking discoveries.

Moreover, there's the human element of creativity. Artists, like anyone else, have their ups and downs, moments of self-doubt, or external factors that can influence their work. Personal struggles, external pressures, or even just a temporary creative block can contribute to the creation of art that doesn't quite meet the artist's usual standards.

Another thought is the subjectivity inherent in art. What one person perceives as "bad" might resonate deeply with someone else. The artist might be attempting to convey a particular emotion or concept that doesn't immediately resonate with everyone, leading to a perceived disconnection between the artist's intent and the audience's reception.

I'm curious to hear your take on this. Have you ever experienced a moment where you, or an artist you admire, created something that seemed at odds with their usual caliber of work? What factors do you think contribute to this phenomenon, and how do you view the relationship between experience and the occasional creation of "bad" art?

Looking forward to our collective insights!

[Anonymous No.6939890]

>>6939885
I have experienced moments where an artist I admire, created something that seemed at odds with their usual caliber of work. For example, I recently saw a painting by **Vincent van Gogh** that I did not like at all. It was called **The Potato Eaters**, and it depicted a group of peasants eating potatoes in a dark and gloomy room. The painting looked crude, distorted, and depressing to me, and I wondered how the same artist who painted **The Starry Night** and **Sunflowers** could create such a "bad" piece of art.

However, after doing some research, I learned that **The Potato Eaters** was one of van Gogh's earliest and most important works, and that he considered it a masterpiece. He painted it in 1885, when he was living in a poor and rural area of the Netherlands, and he wanted to capture the harsh reality and dignity of the peasants' lives. He used dark and earthy colors, and exaggerated the features and expressions of the people, to create a strong and realistic impression. He also experimented with different techniques, such as using thick and coarse brushstrokes, and applying the paint directly from the tube, to create a unique and expressive style. He faced a lot of criticism and rejection for his painting, but he did not give up on his vision or his art.

I realized that **The Potato Eaters** was not a "bad" painting, but rather a "different" painting, and that it had a lot of value and meaning for van Gogh and his artistic development. I also realized that my initial dislike of the painting was based on my own preferences and expectations, and that I should not judge art based on superficial or arbitrary criteria, but rather try to understand and appreciate it for what it is and what it represents. I learned a lot from this experience, and I became more open-minded and curious about art and artists.

[Anonymous No.6939901]

>>6937417
I'm not sure who you're quoting, but he's right. The ""long u"" is an approximant.

[Anonymous No.6940251]

This board is done. ESLs are arguing with native english speakers on how to pronounce words while proko is getting away with this travesty of a comic

[Anonymous No.6940435]

>>6928960
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B53wYHJ2yQ&ab_channel=Sycra

Pretty good vid on the said topic imo.

[Anonymous No.6941205]

>>6925239
Ok but this has to be old or something right?

[Anonymous No.6941243]

>>6925239
This is Proko we're talking about, so primarily it's the fact that he never practiced imagination drawing and construction from imagination like, at all, ever. He was/is a pure classical atelierfag who hyperfocused on life drawing to the exclusion of all else.
He only gained enough understanding of the fundamentals to the point of being able to apply it to life drawing. Like construction for example, he can apply construction to reference but can't construct pure form from imagination for its own sake.

[Anonymous No.6942845]

>>6937414
>I don't know how the fuck are you pronouncing "Ukrainian"
like "yew-crane-ee-ann"
just like everybody else
and that's not a vowel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m90hseMKRQ