>T-the construction is in the artist's head, I swear! There's no way a good artist has drawn using contours and not blocks and heckin' cylinders!Is construction a religion? You see the same thing among Christians where you are meant to believe something is there when there isn't a shred of proof. Curious!
>>6844822Ask the artists you like if they've studied construction at some point.
>>6844822You just have to let people be retarded, I've learned. This is the one sacred cow you're not permitted to challenge. People unironically do not want the truth.
>>6844822>construction a religionI draw the cross on the face to align the eyes and mouth... the old rugged cross...
>>6844848How is it a sacred cow? Most (good) artists draw with an underdrawing.
>>6844872No they don't. Look at any good Japanese artist and they draw contours and lines, not boxes and spheres and other 'primitives'. Only Western artists need to use boxes and spheres to draw because they don't have the innate ability and training people in the East grow up with.
>>6844822It's not that complicated and it's only you people who are against any mention of construction that are complicating itConstruction is a tool for making accurate proportional and orientational decisions while drawing a figure.Just like block ins, or plumb lines, or rulers, or grids etc.If you draw a particular subject enough times, you no longer need tools to help draw it properly just like you don't need a protractor to draw a decent triangle.You develop the intuitive ability to just know where lines should go from expirience So if you look at people who have done nothing but draw the same anime girl every day for years, of course you won't see them using construction.That doesn't mean you should skip construction all together just because ur favorite shitty Twitter anime pinup artist doesn't use it
>>6844822There is proof of artists using construction. But is it good? That's subjective. Constructoids will defend bad art that used construction over good art that didn't.
>>6844822You don't see it for the same reason you don't see a professional pianist playing his scales before a performance, you mouth breathing retard.
>>6844874lol stfu you're so dumb
>>6844874This is the truth, reject the western devils, embrace the Japanese way, the true way. Forget about the rigid primitives, be the line.
>>6844885>Pianists don't rehearseRetarded cunt
>>6844889I accept your concession. Sorry you can't draw.
>>6844822Roughly 75% of drawfags don't use construction.Atelierfags use measuring.Feelfags use rhythms/gesture.Designfags use sculpting/wireframes.Construction is mostly used by illustrators and self-taughts who could only afford Loomis cause it's free.
>tfw you use construction, rhythms and sculpting at the same time
>>6844822Any artwork that is built upon construction will be devoid of soul, rhythm, and emotion. This isn't even debatable, just look at western comics. Rigid and lifeless. Compare that with manga and anime and it's night and day. Construction has no place outside of architecture and mechanical drawings.
construction is just a toolbut don't get mad if it's recommended when your drawings look ugly and flat
Kek sorry you midwits were filtered so hard by simple geometryYour muh style surely will prevail in the long run!
>>6844903>>6844905It's literally the opposite. Construction makes your drawings look lifeless and rigid. Stay mad, cunt. Imagine being a westfag artist when anime is the most popular and noble of styles by far. Keep drawing manjawed fridge built trannies though, sweetie!
>>6844910>still convinced it's a workflow and not a practice methodlmfao get a load of this brainlet
>>6844897suuure... stay ignorant. and yes, your original premise is true. Good artists do use construction without explicitly putting down boxes and cylinders
>>6844912>>6844913You can leave your concession here, kiddo. Now post yours.
>>6844915>I-it's in their head!Imagine being so mindbroken by manga chads lmao
>>6844822Shadman uses construction. CSRB doesn't. Nuff said.
>>6844829How do I ask them about a concept that doesn't even exist in Japanese?
>>6844910>Imagine being a westfag artist when anime is the most popular and noble of styles by farBased, anime is the epitome of beauty. it's hilarious how west fags try to defend their excrement of a style, pathetic.
>>6844916>>6844918you two can't be the same person right? There is no way you think you have any right to talk on this matter. hahaha!
>>6844822>Watch Marc Brunet tutorial on full body construction>Literally says 'Draw these boxes and spheres....then draw the rest of the character...DONE!'If you want people to use your beg-tier methods at least teach them properly.
>>6844923>>6844928Versus average westfag constructoid style. Lmao /ic/ will actually try to say these are equal.
>>6844928Anime style by a westoid. Not as good as a pure Japanese style, but infinitely more appealing that every other westoid style ever.
>>6844927>Marc brunnete Please don't.
>>6844928>Let's defend muh animus with a picture.>picks a literal coombrained ass pic.I bet the venn diagram of permabegs, animuposters and anti-construction fags is a circle.
>>6844874>No they don't. Look at any good Japanese artist and they draw contours and linesBut that's still construction. Why do you think most of them still sketch in the eye line?
>>6844949Ask me how I know you're an American prude. Ultra violence is okay but God forbid you see a woman's ass lmao
>>6844947And he's dead now so what does that tell you
>>6844961>wow, he isn't beating his meat constantly like me, he must be a prude.Try again, coombrain. You seem to be forgetting, or knowing you, never knew at all that western comics were infamous for their statuesque, hot women.
>>6844974Stay mad kid, you already lost. Go grind some more boxes at Church
why are half of the threads in this board always bait or trolls? Do people really find entertainment in here?
>>6844872>>6844954>a sketch is construction>a banana is constructionIf you purposefully define it too broadly like that, then yeah, it stops looking so dumb. I'm talking about the bizarre practice of starting every drawing with a series of interlinked primitive solids.To clarify, this is also not equivalent to the occasional crossline or complete shape drawn in the sketch face. I'm talking about the Hampton shit that is only appropriate for studying.
>>6844982Yes. I like to crab and recommend draw a box to begs after a nice constructionless drawing session
Construction is just perspective, which is just tracking x, y, and z coordinates. Literally anyone that has drawn anything requiring a 3d illusion does this to one extent or another. When I draw a circle or any other shape, I'm thinking of it's orientation in space even if I haven't put down any cross-contours. This thread is giga ass and you should all get back to drawing
hey mikufagpost your work againI want everybody to laugh at you
>>6844985It isn't a broad definition. Blocking in the 3-dimensional forms with lines is literally construction.>I'm talking about the Hampton shit that is only appropriate for studying.But the "Hampton shit" is still the basis for what most artists are doing. Even Kim Jung Gi, the master of direct drawing, does it, so why do you keep making these idiotic threads?
>>6845028>he thinks I'm OPWhy is that Hampton's never made a single drawing worth a damn, only his shitty blocky studies? Why does KJG teach one thing, and do another? Why in fact do most artists observably go straight to contour drawing, when given the chance to draw publicly (le "they're just so used to it now!!!one")?You ever think about any of this?
>>6844916Reminder that these are the people telling you that you're ngmi if you use tools that are known for improving your craft.This place truly is hilarious.
>>6845074Shut up, retard.
>>6845074>Why in fact do most artists observably go straight to contour drawingI don't understand what alternative you are trying to convey, just going in blind and hoping it turns out alright? I mean, kinda based i guess... I feel uncomfortable hearing of someone drawing without any sense of dimensionality but perhaps there's some use case for it.
>>6845087>>6844926That anon wasn't me, he was probably the guy I was arguing with samefagging to make me look bad. Here's my actual work, no construction used. Fuck off.
>>6844822>Christians where you are meant to believe something is there when there isn't a shred of proof Curious!Ateist shit
>>68450873d tracer spotted
>>6844822Ngmi asshole, fuck off
>>6845097fuck you bitch>>6845099It's the tards who construct literally every detail of the drawing with no intuition or feeling or flexibility in thinking, that I'm criticizing. It's the Hampton approach misapplied or overapplied. Sketching is fine and is not =/= construction.
old masters didnt use construction, that's why their works didn't look artificial
>>6845120Shut up, retard.
>>6844822you are stupid right??? Construction is supposed to be a mental step visualization of primary shapes to achieve complex shapes. It is a guide, if you don't use it you will end up drawing everything crooked and you will break the sheet or tablet in frustration thinking it is a fucking lie to draw, like when the Atheists become ultra-skeptical and begin to doubt their own existence and decide to commit suicide to escape reality, thinking that everything is a lie.
>>6845135Shut up, retard.
>>6845132>You HAVE to use itJapanese artists don't>It's in their head! The lines are invisible to us!No it isn't.Cope, seethe, dilate, and then head back to /beg/.
>>6845112looks like shit
>>6845132>Atheists become ultra-skeptical and begin to doubt their own existence and decide to commit suicide to escape reality, thinking that everything is a lie.So they get halfway there but get filtered because they can't comprehend anything that goes against their view of the material 3-D world.
>>6845181Better than 90% of /ic/ but whatever. Now post your AI render.
>>6844922You're retarded. Manga artists talking about how to learn art reference Loomis. Git gud you fucking loser.
who is this whore?
>>6844822Construction is an underlying property of a drawing. You would have to have drawn only some unintelligible randomness to have never constructed something.You would need to convey no information in your drawing whatsoever.
>>6845192you btfo'd that constructard real good lmao
>>6845112Nice T-Rex arms!
>>6845220Biggest cope I've ever seen, cry more westoid, keep shilling for your dying industry
>>6845112The neck, the fat crab claw in place of the palm, the elbow and the shoulder need more work to say lightly. I bet there is a reason you chose to show a close up instead of a full pose, your work is very stiff. Coloring and the head are only decent things here. My opinion is you don't get to shit on construction or any other methods of learning yet, git gud first.
>>6844922https://youtu.be/AyIOZSR08zQ?si=rmOWWmJeA7BDQ1tDNo try, only do
I legitamately can't tell if this isn't a troll anymore. How do you denounce the simplest way of learning/adding things into your visual library in some sort of perceived culture war. Its not even that hard to lurk through someone's twitter or where ever and see their sketches of them learning something
>>6845158post your work
I like to imagine the figure in contours of light and dark. Sort of like a topological map.
>>6845317Why are weebs so retarded? No wonder they end up becoming another mikufag
>>6844897who is she?
Show me asnigle good figure drawing which wasn‘t made with constructionYou can‘t
I thin people generalize a bit too much on this board, assuming because most artists say or do things necessarily all artists do the same. Do many or maybe even most character illustrators and mangaka use construction? Yes.Are there some who don‘t? Yes.In the end if you like drawing but dislike using construction is pretty dumb and will just make art less enjoyable for you, but if it works for you use it.People only really care about your finished drawing anyway so how you get there is up to you.
>>6845129yes they did retard
>>6845402>>6845499>some jap artists use it>that means all of them use it
Can I use this thread to ask why people use specifically boxes to construct the human body?Sure it makes it easy to see planes and such but compared to spherical forms they are quite a bit further removed from what the body actually looks like and seem kinda unnecessaryLike drawing an oval and then adding a centerline and indicating the ribs describes the ribcage pretty well already so using a box instead just seems like busywork
>>6845660because boxes are just 3D squares and rectangles, the same shape as your typical canvas. its the introduction to a whole new dimension. spheres emphasize curves but cubes help emphasize the planes and angles of figures.
>>6845660The box isn't meant to give you the exact form, but to act as a boundary to keep your more complex shapes in the correct scale, and in proper perspective as the box already shows the three axes. Boxes have other properties such as making it easy to find the correct midline in perspective, or divide your subject into proper ratios.
>>6845660And since OP seems to like talking about anime, here is a rough animatic from Sword of the Stranger. The rough pass uses boxy-ish forms, because it is better at making orientation clear.
>>6844822>doubting the supreme importance of constructionYikesBet you didn‘t even finish your 2500 boxes yet
>>6845693That's not construction, that's contouring. We're once again having an autistic shit fit because words don't mean shit anymore.As pointed above, you can plot a drawing through:>Measuring>Contouring>Sculpting>Blocking>Wireframing>Rhythm lines>Geometric constructionIf you think rhythm lines or measuring are a form of construction you're right, but you're not having the same conversation OP is having.Geometric construction can be stifling and it's telling that most Japanese artists and western painters don't use it, opting instead for contouring and blocking respectively.
>>6844874Western artists don't actually draw all that stuff either when constructing an image. They do it when training artists, so they understand how things fit together in 3-dimensional space, but nobody draws a full mannequin of simple shapes before drawing the final image. You do understand that, right? Right?
>>6844822I wanna fuck her mouth and cum down her throat gdi
>>6844874>Only Western artists need to use boxes and spheres to drawRetard.
>>6845317>Biggest cope I've ever seenRetard.
>>6845624> Like, I could masturbate to her?!>>6844822Still not bored from making this thread? Always without ever defining "construction", because otherwise we could have reasonable discussions, which obviously isn't the correct way to interact with humans.
>>6845766>>6845741>but nobody draws a full mannequin of simple shapes before drawing the final image
>>6845778>geometric construction is for learning and teaching>NOOO SEE ALL THESE TEACHING VIDEOS AND MANUALS!1!1!1!1Functionally illiterate, or baiting. In fact anyone who keeps posting after this is an asswarts aids baiting dick sucking faggot.
>>6845741>>6845779https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFlNCfJH1xwexplain what he's doing with the red pencil, retard
>>6845779Shut up, retard.
>>6845779>>6845850You all fucking retards, anyone who joined /ic past 2015 is a fucking retard.
>>6845779You're shitting yourself, go to the bathroom!
>>6845741>but nobody draws a full mannequin of simple shapes before drawing the final image. You do understand that, right? Right?>everybody does the same thing even though I have absolutely no proof for my statementabsolutely braindead
>>6845727>it‘s contouring not constructionAbsolute brainlet
>>6845778What sort of hip construction is that?Doesn‘t look half as autistic as that box shit
imagine being completely buck broken by simple boxes KEK
>>6845727>That's not construction, that's contouring. If it were just contouring, you wouldn't see such distinct shapes and broken lines. Contouring doesn't mean the sole presence of contours, which one can achieve by erasing construction lines after the fact. It refers to drawing only contours in largely unbroken strokes.>If you think rhythm lines or measuring are a form of construction you're right, but you're not having the same conversation OP is having.I'm not, that wasn't a reply to your original question in the OP. It was in response to a question about using boxes/boxy forms. This is a clear example of it. Stop moving goalposts.>Geometric construction can be stifling and it's telling that most Japanese artists and western painters don't use itIf anything, Japanese artists use more construction because most of the work they do is rooted in animation.In any case, you're rationalizing away mountains of examples and playing word games. Don't mind, don't care, have your fun. For everyone else who have legitimate questions and actually want to see examples of Japanese artists of all skill levels doing construction, just go to Pixiv and search アタリ.
>>6845990Why not just use the loomis head or anything similar instead?
>>6846012muh akshually everyting is construction
>>6846012there is no boxy forms retard
>>6846124>>6846126Shut up, retard.
>>6846126>b-but construction is only boxes and cylinders! If a more complex shape is used it's not construction anymore!
>>6845990I like how he adds that angle to the box to make that trademark tranime dogface weebs love so much
>>6845643>I've only seen a few Japanese artists use it.>So no one in Japan uses it.
Japanese people do use construction.
>>6844912i love this response. Its like telling someone who criticizes a movie to post their own movie.
>>6844928why does it look our POV is looking down on her? its inconsistent with everything else. Like why is her right boob sticking out to the side? why isnt her hair falling towards gravity? why are the sweat beads all running in the same direction?
>>6847071In a forum of film makers, that would be a fine response, no?here we are in a forum of drawers...
>>6847071It's more like asking someone who tells you what lifting program to use to post their body.
>>6845112Just to be true to your preachings, I tried to use as little construction as I could, so any errors I have made aside from mocking you are just another argument in favour of using construction.
>>6845624Sarina banks the fat shit
>every good artist uses construction>no good artists use constructionSurely /ic/ is smart enough to realize that both statements can be false right?
>>6847339thanks. definitely going in my fap rotation.
>>6847330Wouldn't be surprised if this looks more dynamic and fun than your regular art.
>>6845112>>6847330>3/4 view, void>StiffWhere's the magic?
>>6847146>>6847164the fallacy is disregarding legitimate criticism or advice as completely invalid merely because they aren't a master at something. Like you're only allowed to jump into a discussion if you're better than anyone else already talking. Its immature really
>>6848302>disregarding legitimate criticism or advicehol up. the point of that "pyw" is because the "advice" is not legit, it's bullshit(just bait). so pyw puts them on the backfoot because they know they can't back up their claims. nobody is critiquing art here, but art methods, which changes everything about this conversation.
>>6848302>Its immature reallyNo it isn't, I simply do not want a nodraw to be pissing in the well of information I drink from. Your feedback is only as good as your drawings, simple as.
>>6848302>Its immature Guess should listen to the facebook mum about health instead of a doctor, medical professional, etc
a good artist who can sketch out a drawing from imagination is one who has mastered the fundamentals and principalsto better learn fundamentals you don't learn them all at once, you synthesize the information into its main components to learn it more clearly and easier. that pretty much goes with learning anything. studies are focused, not all over the placeconstruction is fundamental, the mannequin is that information laser-focused so you can learn it more clearly. there's several ways to learn how to draw humans and they're all valid to reach your end goal. Did you think people painted bowls of fruit because they thought there was some artsy meaning there and never thought about making cool illustrations? fuck no, they're learning how colors work. you learn better when things are focused but i wouldn't expect an adhd ridden zoomer to understand that
I know a guy who thinks something similar, its just semantics thats why the trolling is so effective.All artists simplify, doesn't matter if you call it construction or something else
>>6848302It's not about disregarding criticism, it's about approaching advice with skepticism. Have you never had some skinnyfat boomer try to "correct" your form at the gym because they don't understand what a low-bar squat is?
>>6848302>the fallacy is disregarding legitimate criticism or advice as completely invalid merely because they aren't a master at somethingAsking to see work is not a fallacy.When someone gives you advice face to face, you immediately decide for yourself how much weight to give that advice. Everyone does this. No one is obligated to take all advice, especially when so much of it is contradictory.It is absolutely fine to ask to see work in an online art discussion, just as one may be asked to cite their source when making a claim. It is of course your prerogative not to comply, just as it is the other person's right to disregard you.Obviously, not all people who say "PYW" do so with sincerity. But to demand your opinion be taken at face value is absurd.
Construction is to form an understanding of the body/objectContours are to get an attractive flow.You need both, but you need construction first because otherwise it looks fucking retarded because you don't know shit about anatomy or proportions. Now fucking draw
>>6848429That's been pointed out before, at least three time, itt.These faggots don't want to draw, they just want to bitch about drawing.
People argue about this because they don't want to learn how to draw with and without. It's a debate centered around laziness.learn both or ngmi.
>>6845112Arm and hands look fucked up. The human body is a collection of primitive 3d geometery, to say its simply squares and circles AND YOUR HORRIBLE ART proves 1. YOU ARE STUPID AS FUCK and 2. Construction is pretty useful
>>6850560Do you have that book in pdf?
If you think constructoids can't draw anything without construction forms... then how do people draw the construction forms without constructing them first?Checkmate, marvel at my witchcraft.
Is it some new mental retardation fad that people think construction is literally and only drawing that jointed ball mannequin, with exact cylinders, boxes, etc. before drawing on top of it? Where did this brand of mental retardation come from?
It all has construction. Some just use less because they have a better eye in their mind. Some people like to build out drawings. It is a preference thing and you see both philosophies in action in professionals.
>>6850642Only the english version I'm afraid. https://files.catbox.moe/cfxozb.pdf
>>6850666Huh, that doesn't seem to work for some reason. https://www.docdroid.net/CDiGQ0l/andrew-loomis-figure-drawing-for-all-its-worth-pdf
>>6847330You forgot the long neck.
>>6847587/ic/ can't even agree that dynamic and soul drawings can even exist. In their eyes, the picture with the most construction is the better picture every time. Like coutning how many calories are in a meal and ignoring the taste.
>>6845831reminder, this dude went to fine arts school
the reason modern art sucks and has no soul is the box construction bullshitreminder: YOU will NEVER be a real artist
>>6850475>The human body is a collection of primitive 3d geometeryno good artist has every belived this btw, you will never make it.
>>6851602nta but if you actually watched manben you'd see pretty much no one there is using construction, including Urusawa
>>6851619See >>6845752Of course most of them don't because each of them have 20-30 and more years of experience.
>>6851619>>6851619See >>6845752Of course most of them don't because each of them has 20-30 and more years of experience.
>>6851619Takao Saito(RIP) used it.
>>6851626yet the oldest and most experienced of them >>6851627 used it.
>>6844822There is ALWAYS some kind of "construction" happening. Either on paper (less experienced artists) or in your head (artists with a lot of mileage).Even just using contours requires an understanding of the relation between different proportions of the body.At the end of the day it's just a matter of one's personal preference and habits.t.Experienced artist that used a lot of construction on paper, but nowadays uses almost none.
>>6851788This, care to pyw?
>>6851788>experienced artist>no backgroundPick one.
>>6851967I can draw backgrounds, but I don't have much experience with them, because they are time consuming and I prefer to create more stuff to always have something to showcase on my twitter.If you ever start living off your art, you will understand what I mean.Here's a background I drew in the past.
>>6851988Do more sceneries.
>>6852003I just explained why that's not an option. Maybe once I retire I'll pick up traditional mediums and do that.Until then it's booba and peepees.Honestly I also have more fun with character/figure drawing.
>>6852018>I don't have much experience with drawing backgrounds>Okay, do more sceneries>That's not an option, I want to remain confined to my conform zone which is full of dicks and I have a lot of experience.I'm done, last reply you'll get out of me and if somebody else wants to join in his circular arguments be my fucking guest.
>>6852047>Purposefully misinterprets other people's words.>"I'm done"oh no, now he will never make it. oh wait.A beginner trying to give advice to a more experienced artist while also sounding obnoxious as fuck. The absolute state of ic kek.
>>6852047>I'm done, last reply you'll get out of meand nothing of value was lost lmao.
>>6844822>the construction is in the artist's headLiterally is. Stay mad
>>6852047>>That's not an option, I want to remain confined to my conform zone which is full of dicks and I have a lot of experience.Nice way of putting words in my mouth.I draw primarily to make a living. I don't intend to reduce my income for something that is pretty irrelevant to what I draw on a daily basis.What's so hard to understand here?The point of the debate was that I have experience with drawing and construction. You then went on a tangent about backgrounds that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.What's wrong with you, seriously?
>>6851936This is nice,anti construction fags will never be able to get gud
OP is a nodraw faggot and so is everyone who agrees with him.
>>6844896A pros rehearsal is different from the begs.
>>6851317All good artists believe this btw, you WILL make it
>>6846653>manga-style skullthat's just what asian women's skulls look like, he just drew the eyes bigger
>>6851627>>6844964So what I'm picking up here is that people who use construction will be great but die quickly
>>6853572how do you know what an asian womans skull looks like?
>>6851988This is amazing. I kneel.