/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6840182]

Does anyone else feel intrinsic disgust by rhetoric like this guy's but can't explain why? Like of course Florence is beautiful and I'd rather live there than some modernist or commieblock hellscape but there's just something one-dimensional and cringey about these Roger Scruton talking points

[Anonymous No.6840184]

>>6840182
weak bait mate

[Anonymous No.6840273]

[Anonymous No.6840278]

>>6840182
> same guy who didn't know a sculpture was made by a Chinese woman
He's a grifter isn't he?

[Anonymous No.6840311]

>>6840182
It's annoying because it's political rhetoric masquerading as aesthetic theory.
It's also dumb: Sure, classical European art is beautiful, but so is Indonesian art, Buddhist architecture, Jazz, and Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey.
"Trad" analysis is paper thin and skin deep.

[Anonymous No.6840313]

>>6840273
wtf is this real?

[Anonymous No.6840320]

>>6840182

[Anonymous No.6840324]

>>6840320
both ugly.

[Anonymous No.6840326]

>>6840320
I prefer the phd one, its cleaner

[Anonymous No.6840329]

>>6840320
winner

[Anonymous No.6840337]

>>6840182
No I'm not a nigerrcommie and recognize modern leftist politicians want to destroy beauty for profit because they can't measure up to it, no matter how hard they try to masquerade as socialist pro-minority whatever the fuck they champion nowadays. The core tenet of leftism is the social resentment of the unworthy.

The right is retarded but at least they recognize natural hierarchy and accept that they're not necessarily the ones with the right to rule but believe if we reinstate clear meritocracy with strict rules people who are worth listening to will be born and raised with the right skills to develop a future worth living in.

[Anonymous No.6840365]

>>6840337
Sounds like you like him because he pwns the lefties and not because he has any sort of meaningful insight into art and history (he doesn't)

[Anonymous No.6840388]

>>6840365
I don't like him I like Florence.
You can agree with a retard when they say something that is true, even if is potentially disingenuous.

Florence is in fact objectively beautiful.

[Anonymous No.6840392]

>>6840311
thiz

its just people virtue signaling to an audience instead of trying to provide quality and unique content/analysis

[Anonymous No.6840420]

>>6840388
>Florence is in fact objectively beautiful.
Lmao

[Anonymous No.6840424]

>>6840311
>Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey.
This is a good point. How do trads reconcile their politics with the fact that so many visually appealing movies were made by Jews (Barry Lyndon), communists (The Cranes Are Flying), cultural Marxists (Once Upon a Time in the West), postmodernists (Eros + Massacre), libtards (Ali: Fear Eats the Soul), etc.

[Anonymous No.6840431]

>>6840182
You confess that you would rather live there than in a commie-block hellscape but you don't like the idea of being a conservative when it comes to aesthetics, probably due to being told for years that conservatives are fascist.
The problem is the majority of the ugly things we detest in art is taken up by liberals but originally created by fascists.
Free verse poetry was made popular by Ezra Pound and the original commie blocks were designed by a Nazi guy who believed that their oppressive atmosphere were going to help the government control people. And yes, they knew that their work was ugly, just like most of the left-leaning people making ugly abstract art understand it

[Anonymous No.6840437]

>>6840431
Free verse poetry, and poetry in general, are kinda culturally irrelevant. Architecture is a whole other thing because you actually live in these spaces. The average person never encounters the poems of Ezra Pound, they're not even studied in high school

[Anonymous No.6840441]

>>6840182
Cause all of the posts are "modern art ugly, 15-19th century art good". It's a twitter run by a layman that created nothing in his life but wants to live through those who did. And it's not even an appreciation of the old masters, it's just spite and cynicism being thrown at something he doesn't like.

[Anonymous No.6840445]

Reminder that blue checkmarks get paid by xitter based on views/retweets. It's why you see them reposing /pol/ memes all day and why mods should ban twitter screencap threads.

[Anonymous No.6840448]

>>6840311
>It's annoying because it's political rhetoric masquerading as aesthetic theory.
It's even worse than that because even political rhetoric masquerading as aesthetic theory can be interesting and well written (like Tanizaki's In Praise of Shadows).
This trad nonsense on the other hand is just braindead lowest common denominator engagement bait for pajeet clicks

[Anonymous No.6840451]

You know that "I FUCKING LOVE science" reddit shit that was popular with left of center, socially liberal atheistic types circa 2010?
This is that, for conservatives. This is them larping as art and beauty appreciators when they are demonstrably no such thing. It's virtue signaling, rightoid flavored. It would be seen as cringe in exactly the same kind of way, but leftists are slow to go for the throat the way righties did back then with the concept of "fedoracore." Leftists tend to be unfunny these days too, so it may never happen.

[Anonymous No.6840467]

>>6840324
>>6840326
I don't think that's the point

[Anonymous No.6840471]

>>6840467
your post is ugly

[Anonymous No.6840476]

>>6840467
current meta is to think modern bad/old good.(intent of that image, obvious given the text) countering that with both are bad makes sense to me.

[Anonymous No.6840478]

>>6840273
>>6840445
This is kinda important because the guy has over 1M followers and is endorsed by Musk, so it's not some literally who

[Anonymous No.6840482]

>>6840478
>This is kinda important because the guy has over 1M followers
important in what sense?

[Anonymous No.6840488]

>>6840482
He has influence over at least 1M people (provided they're not bots)

[Anonymous No.6840493]

>>6840320
>>6840329
Old house > Modern house > McMansion

[Anonymous No.6840495]

>>6840488
>He has influence
he's preaching to the choir

[Anonymous No.6840594]

>>6840437
They were when I was in school, but I used him as an example to make a point
The reason poetry is culturally irrelevant compared to the 1800s is that they went too far in the direction of free verse
Contemporary poems barely look like poems and so people stopped caring
Architecture is trying to make itself look bad like free verse poems, but we can't just shut it out by shutting the magazine cover
It's invasive and a form of oppression that something that was made up by dictators to depress people is still being shoved down our throats by rich people

[Anonymous No.6840624]

>>6840311
I am not familiar with the OP but I see a lot of praise for some non-Western countries in some of the right wing youth circles, appreciation for guys like Kubrick and surprisingly little racism
I think its a lot of the time it may actually be the opposite; aesthetic theory masquerading as political rhetoric or youngsters trying to make aesthetic theory into political rhetoric because they are not even interested in politics anymore, they just wish the school they are forced to sit in had windows instead of being a commie block.
The cringe comes from the fact that its zoomers or older people dumbing things down for the zoomie clicks. Twitter in particular is cancerous because it creates the necessity to be pithy and to dumb down the points you are trying to make

[Anonymous No.6840639]

>>6840182
I get what you mean about their one dimensionality. I agree with the points about objective beauty but i see objective beauty outside classical arts too, i believe some anime or modern illustrators for example embody the aesthetic ideals of objective beauty but these kind of guys would recoil at me saying that. According to them only marble statues from the masters are peak beauty and everything else is shit, im sure they dont browse work made by living artists and just take a glancing look at everything new and broad brush stroke it all as shit.

[Anonymous No.6840644]

>>6840320
Nice-looking houses on the outside just serves the interests of people gaming the housing system.
All that matters is the inside is functional and comfy. 99% of the people on this site won't be looking at the outside of their houses on any given day.
The effort should be diverted to beautifying public spaces like parks, however.

[Anonymous No.6840647]

>>6840320
While I agree the bottom house is better, how many architects got a phd?

[Anonymous No.6840648]

>>6840639
With Manga depends; I am snotty but I appreciate the beauty of things like Akira and Studio Ghibli
As for contemporary stuff; Japan, Poland, Russia and other Slavic and East Asian places seem to be producing good artists, same with some Med countries
There's some people I like among British artists as well. Anywhere where tradition and discipline still keeps its head held up

[Anonymous No.6840652]

>>6840644
>All that matters is the inside is functional and comfy. 99% of the people on this site won't be looking at the outside of their houses on any given day.
The issue is that a lot of the block houses aren't even comfy; there was a psychological survey that suggests people are unwilling to be having children in houses and neighbourhoods that are ugly, and depressed people get worse and are unwilling to go out when the street looks hideous

[Anonymous No.6840657]

>>6840652
>unwilling to go out when the street looks hideous
This isn't a house issue, it's more of an urban planning issue. People go outside their houses in New York all the time to jog and cities are ugly compared to regular neighborhoods. If there's no nearby public places to hang out, nobody has the incentive to walk outside.
>people are unwilling to be having children in houses and neighbourhoods that are ugly
Probably because ugly neighborhoods are associated with ghettos and crime. This works in favor for poor people who can't afford to be picky though.
>The issue is that a lot of the block houses aren't even comfy
I agree that those houses are badly designed then. I can make do with homes that are at least functional with working utilities though; since I spend all my time in my room in front of a computer anyways.
The other part that makes a good home is just proximity to relevant work locations and stores/schools/public services. Homes are rarely worth more than the land they are built on nowadays.

[Anonymous No.6840679]

>>6840657
>People go outside their houses in New York all the time
NYC is the most beautiful city in the work with hundreds of Art Deco masterpieces in between rows of neoclassical townhouses and even the nigger dens are the least ugly kind of commie blocks.
Meanwhile in Chicago people pay for athletic club memberships to exercise indoors.

[Anonymous No.6840693]

>>6840182
It's just low IQ slactivists takes but with even less rallying power than lgbt rights and BLM. Empty virtual signaling to people powerless to do anything is the right's specialty as always.

[Anonymous No.6840723]

>>6840337
>>6840388
Based. Humility is the key, and deference to what has already proven itself in the past.

[Anonymous No.6840727]

>>6840431
Sounds like everything bad is made by authoritarians, which today is the leftists.

[Anonymous No.6840742]

>>6840727
A harshly oppressive censorship loving authority is going to crush creativity regardless of orientation
But I agree that today its mostly the left

[Anonymous No.6840749]

>>6840727
This.
The wokie cunts are no different from the satanic panic cunts.
In fact Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton have belonged to both groups.
That's what pisses me off the most about leftists, they openly support people who used to champion shit they hate just because they're running under their flag.
They would have 100% voted for Trump if he had ran for the Democrats in 2016.

[Anonymous No.6840756]

>>6840639
Sincere tradfags like anime with comfy trad morals like Ghibli and Astroboy.
They do hate hikkis and weaboo culture because it's emasculating.

[Anonymous No.6840757]

>>6840749
They have degraded to be very tribal; Clinton's Satanic Panic involvement is especially hilarious considering her involvement with legit human traffickers like Jeffery and Ghislaine and love of porn featuring boys in demon suits.
I don't think there's anything other than love of control behind the movement

[Anonymous No.6840765]

>>6840756
This; Astroboy is comfy to the max
I am a tradfag and I love old school animation in general. It took traditional skills and discipline to make

[Anonymous No.6840769]

So is anyone going to expand on why the "trad" Roger Scruton tier theories are wrong or is the modus operandi just acting enlightened while half agreeing that postmodern liberal art is objectively awful?

[Anonymous No.6840808]

>>6840769
>postmodern liberal art
buzz buzz buzz
I'm only aware Roger Scruton's criticism in the haziest terms
I didn't make the Scruton comparison, but what I can say is there's a brand of cuckservative who basically short circuits at any art that isn't representational, drably "correct", or """beautiful""" in the Western classical-canonical sense
Art from other cultures and with goals other than faithful representation isn't "awful." Appeals to emotion and nationalism are not and have never been rigorous aesthetic arguments. Make an argument other than "duh, it no look like real person!!" Art has never been about representing reality 1:1 or even necessarily 1:2, can we stop this juvenile "point" already
If anyone really sincerely believed this, manga, comics, and animation enjoyed the world over by billions are fucked

[Anonymous No.6840825]

>>6840808
>muh buzzwerdz
Did you read this thread at all? How else would you categorise communist/leftist/progressive art? The choice of words wasn't meant to trigger any ideological reaction.

I've only watched one Roger Scruton thing and it was his BBC special titled "Why Beauty Matters." In it he doesn't really discuss non-Western art at all, it was mostly a critique of the perceived degeneration of art confined purely within the Western culture due to a change in societal values and ideas. It's more of an argument he lays out that the point of art should be beauty so that it speaks to something in our souls and calls us forth to enjoy the profundity of life, his contention being that modern and postmodern art rather focuses on the uglier and lower aspects of humanity like war, suffering, pain, meaninglessness, etc.

[Anonymous No.6840830]

>>6840182
roman statue head posters only really annoy me because what hypocrites they are
they love all this classical art and whatnot but don't actually try to pursue it themselves. they treat the techniques like they're something lost and has been destroyed by modernity. the very least they could look to support the skilled artists who very much exist but they won't

[Anonymous No.6840835]

>>6840808
Pretty sure that has less to do with whatever all that buzzword soup is trying to say, and more with the fact tradfags actually distinguish art from craft.

Totems and ancestor masks are awesome, but they're craftworks with utilitarian uses. Not fine art.

And shit in a canvas is neither art nor craft, it's NYC Jewish mafia money laundering and has been since the times of the five families. But leftists won't capitulate on this well known fact despite their darling black urban soul artist Basquiat being a victim of the laundromat.

[Anonymous No.6840839]

>>6840825
>In it he doesn't really discuss non-Western art at all
Of course he doesn't, that shit doesn't count to him
I don't have time to watch this guy's BBC thing and I'm probably not interested if my intuition based on a skim-through is correct
Lots of shots of marble heads, "classy" nudes, Aphrodite, set to a swelling classical score meant to tug at the heartstrings

It's the same old shit. Like, we get it. That stuff was very realistic and skillful and also spiritual. It's good art. But it doesn't necessarily resonate with modern audiences who like the cultural context/capital to appreciate it. Oftentimes it was commissioned by wealthy patrons who had tastes far removed from people in their own times, even.
Not every modern artist was a gigafaggot troll like Duchamp. Most of them sincerely were trying to find beauty in new ways, and uplift the human spirit, and I'd argue many succeeded.

>>6840835
>tradfags actually distinguish art from craft
Bullshit. You ever seen those gay little disingenuous images comparing Renaissance paintings to [other culture's art]? Tradfags love nothing more than to wank off the skill required to produce canonical work

[Anonymous No.6840864]

>>6840839
>it doesn't count to him cause he's a eurocentric faggot and I'm an enlightened cosmopolitan that doesn't understand why every art discussion doesn't include ritualistic Zimbabwean initiation masks
Please get over yourself.

His argument was not about muh realism or technique, it was about the ethos behind the art. His whole point is that art must be beautiful and that the artistic establishment had forgotten that in favour of the artist's edgyboi hot takes on society and how much they could subvert traditional beauty standards.

[Anonymous No.6840870]

>>6840839
I've seen Rembrandt compared to cholo graffiti and yeah they're right lmao.
Legit mexican muralism can't hang with the classics eithers, but mexican mannerist can and no tradfag will say their art is bad because they're mexican because it's means and message are that beauty exalting virtue and that's what matters.

Claiming people don't like disgusting "art" because they're "racist" is the most cowardly non-argument possible. Even Duchamp recognized how bullshit the progressive art world was becoming and tried to make a statement by signing trash just for your side to run to the bank with it.

[Anonymous No.6840881]

>>6840864
Maybe you should say this to the anon that brought up Scruton? I already said I don't give a fuck about this dead boomer's taste
By the way, I agree the best art uplifts. I don't necessarily think it always has to though
>>6840870
>my side
Nigger, did you not jut see my shittalking Duchamp?
>Mexican mannerism
What the hell are you babbling about? Post some non-Euro art you like, I bet I can predict how narrow your taste is

[Anonymous No.6840898]

>>6840881
Anything from Mughal India, or Khanate China, or Imperial Japan. Or imperial Russia.

Not gonna give you any nog art because they didn't make art, they made craftwork. And their craftwork was great but it was not art. Same is true for mesoamerican art. This is awesome but it's not art, it's graphic design.

[Anonymous No.6840932]

>>684089
>"it's not art, it's for muh ancestors" meme
You're being a little ridiculous here. "Art" itself is a bullshit arbitrary term, but we know it when we see it, even if it perhaps was not thought of by its creators exactly as such. Yes, cave paintings are "art," today, because we recognize them as such. Grugg's opinion on the matter is his own.
Props for not having basic bitch tradlarp taste in any case

[Anonymous No.6840944]

>>6840182
>Does anyone else feel intrinsic disgust by rhetoric like this guy's but can't explain why?
2 things, meme type format of writing and obviously he cares more about interactions and revenue from that than the message

[Anonymous No.6840989]

>>6840278

All of these traditionalist "RETVRN" accounts are.

[Anonymous No.6840993]

>>6840320
>>6840324

Both are fine.

[Anonymous No.6841084]

>>6840870
>Claiming people don't like disgusting "art" because they're "racist" is the most cowardly non-argument possible. Even Duchamp recognized how bullshit the progressive art world was becoming and tried to make a statement by signing trash just for your side to run to the bank with it.
A liberal made my Jew art school gf cry once by saying that they encourage abstract painting mainly because they think that it will give Jewish artists more opportunities to LARP that they are as good as Euros. Wasn't even a /pol/fag in disguise, sincerely believed that non-whites can't make art but added "and that's a good thing"

[Anonymous No.6841107]

Why can’t I like ancient art, renaissance art, modern art, and contemporary art all at the same time?

[Anonymous No.6841270]

>>6840830
Rightoids actually hate the arts, it's not masculine nor meaningful to them. The BS like the tweet OP posted are just tools for them them to dunk on da libs. If they were asked to support a classical arts movement to get rid of contemporary arts from universities they'd be offended and say artists should get trade jobs instead of "asking for handouts"

[Anonymous No.6841338]

>>6840320
soulless
sovl
simple as.

[Anonymous No.6841346]

The only argument I don't get from racists is this idea that only White people can design beautiful things.

What about Muslims? I've been to some Mosques and they are incredible, lots of patterns and appreciation for beauty and god

[Anonymous No.6841362]

>>6841346
Because if you trace the origins of them all, they are from white culture. Terracotta statues in china were uncovered and upon inspection found to be of greek origin and the time of their creation show a massive leap forward in chinese art and sculpture and architecture - all because of europeans coming and teaching them how to do it. china no longer allows anyone to inspect the statues for these reasons. you can find tall, blonde or red haired blue or green eyed 'gods' in every culture coming and uplifting them. its not a coincidence. latin america, south america, africa, asia - they all have them. many have the genetic traits. chinese provinces with blue and green eyed asians for example. persians took slaves and had them make and teach them all their art, philosophy and science. there is no mythical golden age of islam. its not homegrown. its stolen or taught to them. there is no art from any other culture that is not born from ours.

[Anonymous No.6841423]

>>6841362
Greece underwent an Orientalizing period following its Dark Age... but what is the evidence that Greek artists influenced the creation of the Terracotta Army 500-700 years later?

[Anonymous No.6841427]

>>6841270
Yeah just like they want to cut all social security right?
Both Trump and DeSantis were extremely vocal about not cutting a single cent from social security. And republican politicians don't want artists in trade schools because they want them to stop being artists but because they want arts and crafts to be taught at vocational schools as early as 15yo, like in Japan.

Meanwhile democrats have watered down social security by giving it to illegals and made art education prohibitive by walking back on student debt alleviation as college fees continue to rise.

As always with this bullshit satanic bipartisan system, pretty much every single thing retards on social media accuse the right of wanting to do, is something the left is already doing.

[Anonymous No.6841443]

>>6841362
>WE WUZ ALL OF YOU AND SHIET
stop posting forever any time, poltard

[Anonymous No.6841644]

>>6841427
Politicians don't matter, anyone that has looked into the Federal Reserve and how it functions knows perfectly well the world is not ran by talking heads on TV, but by a small select group of billionaires that open the gates of funding to the ''seeds'' that flower their puposes, be it legislators, judges or presidents.

[Anonymous No.6841794]

>>6841427
>And republican politicians don't want artists in trade schools because they want them to stop being artists but because they want arts and crafts to be taught at vocational schools as early as 15yo, like in Japan.
yeah because red states are known for their significant funding for the classical arts and are home to many vocational art schools

[Anonymous No.6841803]

>>6841346
Low IQ retards need to make themselves feel better about their current mediocrity so they claim everything to stem from their people all along to feel better.

[Anonymous No.6841877]

>>6840320
What if I like both?

[Anonymous No.6841884]

>>6840182
I hate old buildings, very boring. With this i have proven that beauty is subjective

[Anonymous No.6841995]

>>6841803
Nice try but Arabs, particularly those who invented mosque art and Quranic scripts, were white

[Anonymous No.6842007]

>>6841884
(You)

[Anonymous No.6842010]

>>6840182
Beauty is subjective. Consensus is objective. Both can be fluid, and it's foolish to treat them as interchangeable.

[Anonymous No.6842023]

>>6842007
You are from the United States or another country that does not have buildings older than 1900. If you see this old shit every day you start to want the brutalist concrete metallic tower.

[Anonymous No.6842027]

>>6842010
This is how you wade into the ocean of relativism and nihilism.
It's all a bullshit story we tell ourselves, sure, but at the end of the day you need a story to believe in to keep going on.

[Anonymous No.6842040]

>>6842023
Actually I live in South Africa.
You should travel to a shithole, man. You don't know how good you have it, truly.

[Anonymous No.6842119]

lol

[Anonymous No.6842124]

>>6840182
Because OOP cannot explain to you why one is better than the other nor is he capable of creating anything similar. It's just so self masturbatory in my opinion. It's empty rethoric coming from him. I personally agree with the idea that beauty or art is in some way objective but when a dude like that says the same thing I cringe or reasons above.

[Anonymous No.6842127]

>>6840420
nigger have you been? The old center is breathtaking, Florence has been the center of European arts for a very long time

[Anonymous No.6842129]

>>6842119
Never understood why they tried adopting the commie block when the townhouse is more efficient, more dignified and more beautiful at the same time.

[Anonymous No.6842135]

>>6842119
RETVRN

[Anonymous No.6842137]

>>6842129
because
>more efficient
is the only thing that matters
>townhouse is more efficient
proof?

[Anonymous No.6842146]

>>6841270
The arts died because the right abandoned them and the left wanted to use them as a mouthpiece
Normalfag republican-voting rightoids insist everyone get a practical trade job and then ask why all the rockers are left-wingers who encourage kids to do drugs and why feminists splashing period blood is seen as art
I say this as a tradfag, if we wanted beautiful art in a traditional style we should do away with the stigma that arts are impractical.

[Anonymous No.6842148]

>>6841346
Muqarnas are excellent. Muslims aren't allowed to depict living beings in art so they had to express themselves using geometry and calligraphy. My favourite of theirs is the Muqarna which in its complexity is symbolic of Allahs infinity. Styles differ like in the Alhambra the shapes are more straight and rigid while in others they are more rounded. Pic related is from a mosque in Samarkand of the Timurid style. Named after the khan Timur

[Anonymous No.6842165]

>>6842146
The Right fully aupport AI.
All Jews btw

[Anonymous No.6842187]

>>6842146
art was truly over once americans had any say in it. doesn't matter what political affiliation

[Anonymous No.6842190]

>>6842146
>we should do away with the stigma that arts are impractical.
Left-right culture war analysis falls short here. The arts are impractical for most (in America anyway) due to economic-geographic reasons. Becoming an artist is a risk, the few who can make the leap risk-free are usually the children of the professional managerial class, which is why 'the arts' are a cosmopolitan thing.
I grew up in deep red south. To get that middle class bag kids have to either get a trade, go into medical, or go into the oil field. There's money to be had, but it doesn't involve your parents blowing six figures on some art school (who are usually boomers who are the first generation in their family with any money, if you're lucky).
Complicating factor is the most "practical" jobs in the arts are in things like animation and concept art, and our most active government (in silicon valley) is pushing AI, damn any consequences. The effects are yet to be seen, but if it's even seen as a threat than even the "vote blue no matter who" crowd won't be footing the bill for their zoomer kids to go to Calarts or wherever.

[Anonymous No.6842191]

>>6841270
not sure if i'd go as far as hate, they defiantly don't value it. but the artists they end up supporting are ones who are making in spite of the "liberal environment in the art world"

That's basically Thomas Kinkade's entire career.

[Anonymous No.6842200]

>>6842007
looks cool, unironically good composition for a photo too.

[Anonymous No.6842208]

>>6842027
>This is how you wade into the ocean of relativism and nihilism.
Not true at all. The difference is simply in what is measurable/quantifiable. Consensus is measurable.
If the perception of beauty were static, we wouldn't have different stylistic eras. We'd only move in direction, never veering from ever tinier refinements. In fact, it would mean the aesthetics of very culture would eventually convene at the same place, without ever needing contact with one another. That's simply not the case.

[Anonymous No.6842241]

>>6842190
But you're not accounting for the fact that liberals are more willing to let their kids explore life and be starving artists until they make it (if they ever do) than conservatives are. My uncle told my cousins they have to support themselves at 18, move out, and either get a trade or join the army. They weren't allowed to make mistakes or 'waste time' on activities that he didn't see as relevant. One of my cousins wanted to be a chef all his life and my uncle totally crushed his dream, telling him he'd be poor and never make it until my cousin gave up and became an electrician. He eventually quit that after a couple years and started teaching English in Korea. He hasn't been home since.
Most conservatives are like my uncle and won't even entertain the idea of their kids doing anything they see as impractical and/or too liberal no matter what the cost. This is why liberals dominate cultural output in America. They're more willing to take risks.

[Anonymous No.6842259]

>>6840182
you are programmed, else you'd be able to verbalize your reason for the disgust

[Anonymous No.6842266]

>>6840182
no, because i am not a woman, and i am not interested in perpetuating the status quo because it is what is socially acceptable. bauhaus like many of the judaic concepts that define modernity has had its run and its time to let it rest

[Anonymous No.6842267]

>>6840644
Wrong.
I lived in a city of commie blocks and a city that had Jugendstil facades. Doing the same thing in both cities (being at uni all day and sleeping at home). So all factors are sorta controlled for. I must say: Jugendstil was uplifting. Every day going to uni I felt great. Commieblocks depressed me.
Living in a nice house and being among nice houses would be more important to me than driving a nice car (even though that would probably feel good, too- despite being not much more functional than your average compact car).

[Anonymous No.6842284]

>>6841427
>confusing Republicans with "the right"
obsessed.
Unsurprisingly Republicans don't value art, because they are the no-bs, common sense, practical skills and economics party. This is hardly representative of the right - a side more idealistic and with finer sensibilities that does appreciate art.

[Anonymous No.6842305]

>>6842165
>>6842187
It was depressing to any traditionally-minded person to see the reactionary right happy about the automation of culturally significant trad craft, especially considering its led by Jews and Indians and some of them claim to be European nationalists.
But getting Republicans to preserve anything but Israel is difficult
I agree America's politics are anti-art regardless of party
Republicans think its bs and Democrats think its valuable only as a mouthpiece for their ideas, which has led to countless box office fails.
Regardless of how sinister they can be the alt-left and alt-right of Europe are better in this regard
When the European right wants more oil painters trained in realism or more sexy buildings they put their money where their mouth is and fund it

[Anonymous No.6842308]

>>6842241
>Most conservatives are like my uncle and won't even entertain the idea of their kids doing anything they see as impractical and/or too liberal no matter what the cost. This is why liberals dominate cultural output in America. They're more willing to take risks.
This

[Anonymous No.6842309]

>>6840182
If you see a blue checkmark retard post controversial shit you should automatically assume they're doing it for the impressions and therefore money. Stop engaging with this garbage online.

[Anonymous No.6842312]

>>6842259
I am kind of curious about what's disgusting about the OP myself. It seems innocent; he is not calling for a billion deaths or any of that stuff

[Anonymous No.6842355]

>post about objective beuty vs subjective
>quickly devolves into politics
this really has been invaded by twittards

That said, ill be a hipocrite now and say that beuty really is objective and even science proves it by showing we are ahrd wired to find some things more beautiful than others. hell, even as a Calcinist i must admit that catholics and ortodox christians have the most beutiful art and architecture. And some libertine/hedonist art movements like the baroque have given us great artworks.

This whole post-modern thought of everything is subjective makes no sense especially if like i mentioned before, we as humans are hardwired to be objective.

[Anonymous No.6842362]

>>6842241
that isnt about politics/religion/wtv the fuck, its a your uncle problem and you are taking advantage of that example to make generalizations

> fact that liberals are more willing to let their kids explore life and be starving artists until they make it
plus it shows you are butthurt mommy and daddy dont suport your NEET life, and that is why alot of you lean left, the thought of an ideal utopia somehow being real

[Anonymous No.6842365]

>>6842355
>Calcinist
damn, meant *Calvinist you get the idea

[Anonymous No.6842371]

>>6842284
>Unsurprisingly Republicans don't value art, because they are the no-bs, common sense, practical skills and economics party. This is hardly representative of the right - a side more idealistic and with finer sensibilities that does appreciate art.
preach
people have turned politics into a sport where all that matters is the you vs them and "my team must win"

[Anonymous No.6842438]

>>6842362
>Another retarded rebuttal
Sit around other conservatives during a news report about how arts are getting defunded in red states or student loans forgiveness getting shot down by a judge and see how everyone around you starts laughing and clapping like sociopathic circus seals because they see it as a victory against limp-wristed art therapy majors who deserve poverty and suffering for not getting "real jobs".
Show me evidence of current republican legislators actually promoting the classical arts or even promoting art as a legitimate career choice.

[Anonymous No.6842452]

>>6840182
No. He's right and based. Degenerate art is shit

[Anonymous No.6842454]

>>6840311
It's both. It's not trying to hide. Trad art is beautiful then modern shit

[Anonymous No.6842492]

>>6842438
This. The thing is artists didn't have to be the right's boogeymen
Back when art was good it had a variety of people in it including conservatives and literal fascists. Somewhere down the line conservatives stopped being patrons of the art and began to think of art as something "Extra" that bourgeoisie spoiled rich kids do and calling you a useless eater if you want to be an artist
Then surprise surprise the paintings are all of abstract black transsexuals, the buildings are ugly boxes

[Anonymous No.6843490]

>>6842492
Somewhere down the line the paintings were all of abstract black transsexuals, the buildings are ugly boxes
Then surprise surprise the conservatives stopped being patrons of the art and began to think of art as something "Extra" that bourgeoisie spoiled rich kids do and calling you a useless eater if you want to be an artist

[Anonymous No.6843571]

>>6843490
>Somewhere down the line
I did the research, it was when liberals started throwing money at the arts.
We could have had a artistic arms race where conservatives reawaken Baroque art tradition and the liberals try to make their art more culturally relevant
But of course politicians choose the most boring option and we are stuck

[Anonymous No.6844123]

Why the hell do so many of you constantly feel the need that obsessing over politics is what will solve the issues with art when its people like you that caused it in the first place?
Its not the job of my fucking art to jerk off your neurotic notions of how the world works. But if I complain about it, I'm told to get a job or work for fucking Diseny, or do it on the side and making shitty Nintendo porn. This isn't what art is fucking for, and its because of this politics obsession that the whole art scene has degraded to the state that it has. And you politically obsessed lunatics have nothing but yourselves to blame for it
.
I don't care about race.
I don't care about politics
and I don't fucking care about ai.

Let me paint in fucking peace and make the work people like me want to make without your psycho's dictating how I should earn my wages and live my life. I'm so fucking sick of it.

[Anonymous No.6844131]

>>6844123
You sound like an angry incel

[Anonymous No.6844208]

>>6840311
Yup
Ask any of these guys about architectural styles or art styles, see how much they know (the answer is nothing)

[Anonymous No.6844218]

>>6843490
It was the after war. Communists were successfully using figurative art for propaganda so America had to demonize figurative art and in turn went full on gargling the nuts of the abstract Jew.

It really isn't a shitpost or an exaggeration to say everything wrong with today's world is caused by American hegemony.

[Anonymous No.6844219]

>>6842259
This, if you can't communicate what you feel, or justify what you think. Those thoughts and feelings aren't your own.

[Anonymous No.6844290]

>>6842146
what the fuck are you talking about you trad-LARPing tool? there's probably never been a period of human creativity like the golden age of the internet. we've created more interesting, meaningful, beautiful cultural artifacts in the last 20 years than the entire 20th century.
there's a difference between appreciating the classics and being totally blind to the wonders of the present because it contradicts your politics of the apocalypse.

[Anonymous No.6844353]

>>6844290
>we've created more interesting, meaningful, beautiful cultural artifacts in the last 20 years than the entire 20th century.
Like what

[Anonymous No.6844408]

>>6841338
Reminder that "soul" is just a meme word used by morons that can't explain eloquently enough why they like a certain thing.
It boils down to subjective personal preference, which can be dismissed without further analysis.
Simple as.

[Anonymous No.6844411]

>>6841995
Low IQ retard that needs to make themselves feel better about their current mediocrity spotted.

[Anonymous No.6844472]

>>6844353
Wojak

[Anonymous No.6844532]

>>6842305
the kind of art that AI is affecting are not the kind of art that the right respects. it's mostly digital and entertainment industry, which are mostly leftists in hollywood and burbank.
even if the right doesn't think art is bullshit, which I'm not even sure is true, america simply doesn't have the culture to make good fine art.

[Anonymous No.6844937]

>>6844408
sound like something with no sovl would say
post your favourite artworks

[Anonymous No.6844999]

>>6842148
>Muslims aren't allowed to depict living beings in art
>>6842148
muslim here it's not specifically "living beings" it's the face that you are not allowed to depict at least that's what the scholars told me when I put forward a question list this is also why you can draw trees and people from behind even though they are also "alive".

[Anonymous No.6845242]

>>6844131
This! So much this!

[Anonymous No.6845244]

>>6844219
or, more like one hasn't developed the vocabulary necessary to express it.
with that kind of logic, its just encouraging stockholm syndrome desu

[Anonymous No.6845247]

>>6844290
the golden age of the internet died in 2015, anon. its been all downhill ever since.

[Anonymous No.6845248]

>>6844999
i would have thought with things being "living" in general that such depictions in art would be forbidden overall. why the face exactly? does it include other things outside of human's that 'might' look like a face? where do you draw the line?

[Anonymous No.6845284]

>>6845248
Like everything religion, it depends on what religious authority you ask.
Some muslims want to destroy all figurative art. Some understand Shirk is an action, not an object. So you can be idolatrous towards an apple which would be a sin, and draw a picture of Jesus for academic purposes, which wouldn't be a sin.
Some understand depiction is not idolatry but still would rather people not draw because it can lead to idolatry.

[Anonymous No.6845336]

>>6845284
i can understand that, since as we know with the internet, artists and people can take things they like too far in weird, so that line of thinking does make sense imo.
but you mention scholars mentioning to avoid depicting the "face"? that sounds interesting imo. would that mean showing reverence for the human form is ok generally so long as the face isn't apparent? it would explain things like the burka too, right?

[Anonymous No.6845388]

>>6840182
Rightwing version of Greta Thunberg

[Anonymous No.6845749]

>>6845336
>>6845248
>i would have thought with things being "living" in general that such depictions in art would be forbidden overall. why the face exactly? does it include other things outside of human's that 'might' look like a face? where do you draw the line?
>but you mention scholars mentioning to avoid depicting the "face"? that sounds interesting imo. would that mean showing reverence for the human form is ok generally so long as the face isn't apparent?
the reason why your not allowed to depict the face in general is because god considerers it a form of competing with him in creation as only he can give something a "soul" by not giving it a face you aren't making a "complete" perfected creature and thus not competing it's also the reason you can draw specific parts of a face like a mouth or eye as they aren't complete that's the way the scholar explained it to me at least, if I where to be honest I also don't really understand it but I'm forced to bite the shit sandwich regardless.
and to be honest it's not that bad after the initial buthurt subsided and I asked for clarification I now I simply draw all my characters with either a mask put them in armour or draw mechs.
>like the burka too, right?
That's simply modesty nothing to do with this field.

[Anonymous No.6845763]

>>6842040
hope you don't live in joburg
its worse than hell here

[Anonymous No.6845783]

>>6840182
I feel disgust for anyone who just bitches at a problem without offering any sort of solution. Tankies say dumb things but at least they sat down and tried figuring out how to make their ideology work, when a rightoid does it half his own movement calls him a fed and goes right back to not doing shit.

Each state in the US probably has hundreds of sculptors and architects doing cool things this guy would masturbate to right now, like this dude I found in three minutes making bronze statues of Jesus or war memorials, but he's never shilling them, saying they're a way out and the Bauhaus judeo-communist movement hasn't won yet, it's all RETVRN TO EVROPA / HEBREWS HIDE REAL ART FROM VS bullshit.

[Anonymous No.6846092]

>>6840311
Trad classical> modern, it's a global law that is true internationally

[Anonymous No.6846106]

>>6844408
it's ironic how you spam that like a robot

[Anonymous No.6846114]

>>6840182
I used to agree with the "where did the roman architecture go?! all is modern crap!" crowd but now I don't care about it as long as it's not brutalism. Victorian or whatever architecture is beautiful but so does the modern architecture or minimalism.

>Culture Critic
Oh yeah, that twitter account. Kept on seeing that guy complaining whatever aesthetic that's not his exact taste. He's basically the wacumguzzler version of couch architects on Twitter.

[Anonymous No.6846858]

>>6845749
man, crazy shit, but interesting too. thanks for taking the time to respond islam-anon.

[Anonymous No.6846987]

>>6845749
>now I simply draw all my characters with either a mask put them in armour or draw mechs
pathetic, i know a muslim girl who streams herself doing art and she draws ALL THE FACES like a fucking MADLAD !!!

[Anonymous No.6847022]

>>6844290
>what the fuck are you talking about you trad-LARPing tool? there's probably never been a period of human creativity like the golden age of the internet.
I don't agree with the trad rightoids, but let's not get carried away here.
Personally I like the period between 1900-1970s. Lots of interesting things in literature & film, golden age illustration, classic comics & manga, and just the right amount of experimentation in the fine arts.

[Anonymous No.6847031]

>>6847022
>1900-1970s
oh yeah & music, don't forget the music.

[Anonymous No.6847043]

>>6840420
COPE

[Anonymous No.6850210]

>>6840424
if they were Truly "Trad" they wold be full puritans and reject all art, because it's a fucking Sin in the Bible, unless is some worship music, but visual arts? a huge no-no for God.

[Anonymous No.6850308]

>>6840451
>one draws from le epic big chunges scientism "fuck you dad" vibe
>other draws from venerating and being prideful of one's ancestor's achievements
idk anon i'd rather have a history worshipper than a new age scientism devotee contrarion culture
the faggy contrarions are the establishment now yet still larp like some underdog deafeating made up notion of fascism and "le bigotry" by making shitty art piees that only them and their niche club of fart huffers enjoy (not to mention the tax evaders in it for the money laundering lmao"
given a few centuries no one will look at a banksy or the banana taped to a wall or any of the post-modern "you're talking about it so its smart somehow cuz i said so" conversation pieces people will still awe at the Mona LIsa and the Hagia Sofia

min-maxxing your gay arts appeal to the super niche highly polarized post-modern audience is a bad move actually and is by definition literally selling your soul , dignity and integrity as an artist to further subsidize and streamline what amounts to a massive scale money-laundering scheme being perpectuated by useful idiot post-modernist "artists" and their kike masters

>>6841084
>sincerely believed that non-whites can't make art but added "and that's a good thing"
fucking lmao

[Anonymous No.6850463]

>>6850308
You don't even need to go into the future.
Today, right now, nobody remembers 99.9% of bullshit artists.
We remember Pollock because the mafia laundromat put way too much money into marketing for him. We remember Warhol because he was a blatant scammer making fun of Hollywood and getting thanked for it. We remember Duchamp because he was the first trolled troll, trying to make a statement and having it stolen and sold for millions.

Meanwhile even the uneducated recognize at least a handful of renaissance painters, a bunch of impressionists and a couple dozen baroque, rococo, nouveau and deco artists plus magazine age darlings like Leyendecker and Frazetta.

[Anonymous No.6850465]

>>6850210
True Trad is polytheist.
You don't see Black Suns at the homes of Christian cucks.

[Anonymous No.6850571]

>>6840451
based. I remember when I was a teenager, I would look up art, "avante garde" films and watch them to try to be cool, it was all surface level stuff. Conservatives are doing the same thing, the guy running this account is probably 16

[Anonymous No.6850707]

>>6844123
People wouldn't care so much if they were not being constantly lied to by mainstream media
Also, who is forcing you to be here?

[Anonymous No.6850721]

>>6840313
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FFHHH *HEAVES* *HEAVES HARDER*
*PROJECTILE VOMITS*
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OH GOD...OH GO- *PUKES AGAIN*
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*STARTS CHOKING* H-HELP M-ME- *VOMITS AGAIN*
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AA *HEEEAVES* *HEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEES*
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GARRRGHHH......*CHOKES*
ARRUGH...SAVE ME.... *DIES**CHOKES* AHHHRGGH *COUGH COUGH*
RRRAAAGGGHHHH *COUGH COUGH COOUUUGHH* FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCKKK ARRGH
HHHHHHH *HEAVES* UNNNGGHHHHH *VOMITS*
*VOMITS PROFUSELY AGAIN*
EEEEEEEEUUUUUUGGGGHHH *CHOKES* AHH *SPITS UP BLOOD*
FFFFUUUCCCKK AARRGGHHH *SHITS PANTS*
AAAA FUCK H-HELP *COUGH COUGH*
*VOMITS*
*COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHH** HOLY S-S-SHIT FUU *BURP*
D--D-DAN...DANNN..*COUUUGGGHHH* *BURRRRPP* *STARTS PISSING BLOOD*
FFHHH *HEAVES* *HEAVES HARDER*
*PROJECTILE VOMITS*
GARRRGHHH.......*CHOKES*
ARRUGH...SAVE ME.... *DIES*

[Anonymous No.6850757]

>>6840182
I think you guys feel bad about it not because it is one dimensional or anything like that, but because you feel personally attacked. You're politically, sociologically and/or sentimentally (hey, maybe ethnically) attached to the side of the modernists, and even though you can't help but admit that they create hellscapes, you don't like hearing it from the other side.

[Anonymous No.6850767]

>>6850757
>pictured: a hellscape in the fevered, pearl-clutching rightoid imagination
this is why you're losing the culture battle for over 100 years now

[Anonymous No.6850940]

>>6840647
My sister architect went to the US for a PHD. Came back as a commie

[Anonymous No.6851016]

>>6850767
That's Stuart Davis, who had a great sense of color and design. There are a lot of modernists that more representational artists could learn from, but they close themselves from an entire world of art for silly ideological reasons.

[Anonymous No.6851063]

>>6840329
I remember making this in the sims once.

[Anonymous No.6851258]

>>6840424
>How do trads reconcile their politics with the fact that so many visually appealing movies were made by
Jews and commies were the only ones ALLOWED to make movies. For decades that has been and still is the case. It's immensely dishonest to ignore this crucial fact.

If right wingers artists had not been censored, they'd have done things just as good, if not better.

[Anonymous No.6851948]

>>6840488
this stupid nigger thinks online "discussion spaces" in 2023 aren't just echo chambers LMAO

[Anonymous No.6851951]

>>6840182
People are happier in cities like this than they are in modern globohomo skyscraper cities. Studies have been done that show this.

[Anonymous No.6851955]

>>6840182

[Anonymous No.6852061]

>>6840278
I thought this was PJW running another account, DESU.

[Anonymous No.6852160]

>>6840424
that's like asking how a person can reconcile his attitude towards a pervert rapist with the fact that he did some good deeds as well.

[Anonymous No.6852470]

>>6846858
>man, crazy shit, but interesting too. thanks for taking the time to respond islam-anon.
no problem bro and as mentioned before this religious law actually forced me out of my comfort zone my work is a lot more varied now which i like if I just continued to draw le ebin qt animu faces i would have just become another kitchy pin up fag.
>>6846987
>i know a muslim girl who streams herself doing art and she draws ALL THE FACES like a fucking MADLAD !!!
Is she one of those libshit tumbler types?

[Anonymous No.6852983]

>>6840898
Where do you draw the line between art and craft work?

[Anonymous No.6852994]

>>6841877
Sorry anon but you have to make a choice. Everything nowadays is politicized and binary and if you don't pick a stance people just assume you're the opposite of what they are.

[Anonymous No.6853003]

>>6852994
people from the past were not less deliberate or judgmental in their choice and reasons for their choices.

[Anonymous No.6853288]

>culture critic twitter post
These anons >>6840830 >>6840451 >>6840624 >>6842146 >>6845783 >>6840693 >>6840445 >>6842305 pretty much sum it up. This is just another sociopolitical virtue signaler who makes the same posts over and over while not promoting living artists that do meet their criteria nor actually pursuing/funding the mediums themselves. Money and action speak louder than words.