/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6779749]

MFW I'll never get into russian art academy and become a walking god among /ic/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3oHqb88cIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3oHqb88cIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3oHqb88cIE

[Anonymous No.6779789]

>>6779749
You can go to calarts instead!

[Anonymous No.6779807]

>>6779789
>>6779749
>russia mogging america in taste and skill
how did things become this way

[Anonymous No.6779851]

>>6779749
>MFW I'll never get into russian art academy and become a walking Stan Prokopenko among /ic/

[Anonymous No.6779878]

>>6779807
CIA psyop to promote modern art over Russian realism

[Anonymous No.6779911]

>>6779807
it always was this way
thanks to the internet more people are being exposed to it
basically
death to america

[Anonymous No.6779956]

the artistic equivalent of following an internet recipe for spaghetti bolognese to the letter and thinking you're a good cook

[Anonymous No.6779964]

>>6779956
Not all pose references can be this appealing

[Anonymous No.6779966]

>>6779807
america has always been shit at art, people used to fucking go to paris to attend the academie and then people like bridgman brought it back
then it died quietly because america hates art

[Anonymous No.6779989]

spend 10 gorillion years to make "good" art just for your nephew to call it boomer drawings and tell you to make anime instead

[Anonymous No.6779998]

>>6779749
You can become a walking god but that still won't be enough to make a living as an artist in the West. Unfortunately people with such skills are many and the demand is very small, so you would end up becoming one of the best just to produce family portraits for a bowl of noodles

[Anonymous No.6779999]

>>6779998
>Unfortunately people with such skills are many

[Anonymous No.6780006]

>>6779998
Both Jeffrey Watts and Proko went to russia to explore the art and academies, both became successful here and make a living from their art activity.

[Anonymous No.6780019]

>>6779749
Why do all these master portrait painters end up as drawing teachers?

[Anonymous No.6780020]

>>6779989
Well once you learn to draw well, transitioning to stylization is simpler. Just copy a couple animus if you want and you’ll have it down. Or anything you find appealing. Probably you only showed him straight-on figure studies or still life or landscapes. Probably if you focus more on composition and subject matter, it’ll be more interesting. Like if the boomeriest of boomers — if Leonardo Da fucking Vinci made an etching of some poor schmuck firefighter showing up to a scene only to encounter a fucking fire golem, no matter how he renders it, no matter how he does or doesn’t stylize, it’s gonna be interesting. I think people get too focused on how to draw, and need to pay more attention to what to draw. That’s the case for me personally, at least. It’s like the difference between a competently drawn but stiff and boring figure vs a rough but soulful and dynamic figure.

I’m probably projecting here and just thinking aloud desu. Anyway, chin up anon. Disregard those whose taste doesn’t matter. It’s your drawing, it only has to satisfy you.

[Anonymous No.6780021]

>>6780019
The same reason old masters were tutors, it pays the bills

[Anonymous No.6780026]

>>6779966
>>6779999
>>6780000
Checked

[Anonymous No.6780031]

>>6780006
Every lottery winner bought, in fact, a lottery ticket. Which doesn't mean your chance of success is high if you buy one. Most artists making money are doing coom, there's very few jobs available for those who studied realism, most people with art degrees end up jobless. It's even harder now because AI destroys atr job in the industry and only coom is left

[Anonymous No.6780042]

>>6779807
>>6779878
>>6779911
>>6779966
>america has always been shit at art
>Russia can take over America and teach the Americans how to be intelligent like the rest of the world.
Do vatniks and /pol/cels really?

[Anonymous No.6780044]

>>6779966
America was a shitty place for artists from the colonial era until probably the late 19th century because puritanical religious attitudes were incompatible with the study and display of the nude human figure which was central to western art. It is true that most of the great American artists of this period studied in Europe, and many ended up staying there.

However, if you survey the best figurative artists of the mid 20th century, when modernism began to take hold and the study of drawing and painting was spurned by schools of fine art, at the top of the list will be many Americans. New York was a booming commercial hub and figurative illustration was in high demand in the fields of advertising and comics. I'll just drop some names here: Milton Caniff, Hal Foster (Canadian-American), Norman Rockwell, Maxfield Parrish, Alex Toth, Alex Raymond, Leonard Starr, Frank Frazetta, Joe Kubert, John Buscema, Mort Drucker...the list goes on.

Of course, advertising illustration has pretty much died out as an art form, having been replaced by photography. American comics have also greatly declined, both commercially and artistically, although the reasons for the latter are not as easy to discern and probably have to do with larger socio-political and cultural changes (the broader decline of education affecting the quality of thought, writing and art produced by the society).

[Anonymous No.6780048]

Who gives a shit if you can paint great stuff while looking at a reference or a model but then the second you draw to draw from imagination this happens

I don't want to just make pretty pictures so other people will jerk me off. Thats not the dream, thats not why i started drawing. I want to be able to draw what I see in my mind.

[Anonymous No.6780050]

>>6780048

[Anonymous No.6780051]

>>6779999
Do you believe that boomers from Italy, France, Spain (and so on) don't have similar skills? Even your neighbor can have such skills, but only his family and a few friends will know about them.

[Anonymous No.6780055]

>>6780051
I grew up with my neighbors, they can't draw

[Anonymous No.6780057]

>>6780050
>boring soullessly constructed art of the same generic poses that they've referenced billions of times
Who wants to do this shit? Who, when they were a kid, thought to themselves that i want to grow up and just spew out a bunch of naked people standing in the same four or five generic poses over and over again?

There's no imagination, no spark of soul, it's just so dead and lifeless. I want to be able to master perspective and form to the point that I can play with and stretch three dimensional forms in my mind and bring to life any idea from any angle in a way which reflects something about me on a subconscious level. This academic russian shit is so lifeless

[Anonymous No.6780058]

>>6780048
>I want to be able to draw what’s in my mind
Proko drew what was in his mind. It wasn’t very good but still…

[Anonymous No.6780066]

пpeкpaтитe шиллить

[Anonymous No.6780067]

>>6780044
(cont'd)
Anyway, this modern academic art is boring and rote in a way that the original academic period is not. If you are going to compete with Bouguereau, you had better be really amazing in your craft; have aesthetic judgement and not just copying skills; and be able to execute large paintings with narrative elements that resonate with people, not one boring figure after another, and certainly not figures scribbled and spattered over or made into some self-aware pun as a sop to modernism.

While I can somewhat appreciate the technical skill of the Russian academy artists, they lack an appreciation for beauty. The male figure in OP's pic, which is typical, has way too much tonal variation in both the shadow and light areas, resulting in an ugly, noisy appearance. Compare to picrel by Prud'hon. Note how much more powerful is the effect, and how a clearer distinction between shadow and light lends weight to the figure and is more pleasing to the eye.

All the technical skill in the world is useless without an artistic sensibility, whereas someone less endowed in the former can get very far if the latter is well developed.

[Anonymous No.6780109]

>>6779956
Yeah, but you don't start *learning* spaghetti bolognese without first copying a few recipes. And learning is pretty much what you go to school for.

Besides, it's still aesthetically pleasing.

[Anonymous No.6780342]

>>6779749
>soulless render/copy shit
>can probably barely draw from imagination due to spending all day copying

Yawn.

[Anonymous No.6780361]

>>6780342
See >>6780109

[Anonymous No.6780363]

>>6780067
>they lack an appreciation for beauty
So what exactly does ‘beauty’ mean to you? Ask any normie and they’d probably find that drawing ‘beautiful’ (or an adjacent word). Stop trying to be a snob, it’s clouding your common sense desu. Your part of the reason why an ‘artist’ can dump period blood on a canvass and be considered ‘deep and thoughtful’. Your analysis makes me sick. Bleh.

[Anonymous No.6780367]

>>6780361
Do you honestly think people who buy into only caring about technical skill are ever going to apply outside in original work? When they try and realize their imaginative works suck they're just going to go right by to soulless render shit.

Personal taste is important unless you want to be a derivative copy monkey, or a pale imitation of the old masters.

[Anonymous No.6780368]

>>6780342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Za-7SMS500

[Anonymous No.6780370]

>>6780368
>I literally draw greek statue same faces

Wow, how good. I'm sure they could do the body as well.....oh wait...

[Anonymous No.6780374]

>>6780370
>>6780050

[Anonymous No.6780378]

>>6780368
>literally books filled with same faces
>those body drawings

OH NO NO NO NO NO NO. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>6780374
>being so medicore you need a billion construction lines to draw a body.

Holy fuck hahahahahahaa. Russians really are subhuman retards.

[Anonymous No.6780385]

>>6780378
He is teaching, of course they will show every construction line they are thinking or you really think even the people who made the gnomon workshop or any of the tutorials on cgpeers overdo their construction lines when they are doing their actual work and not teaching

[Anonymous No.6780387]

>>6780385
My point retard, based on his videos his actual stand alone body drawings aren't all that great. Of course if you had some fuctioning eyes, you'd realize that.

Even teaching, a good artist would not need the amount of construction lines that artist uses. Vipplu is amazing at figure drawing and he uses a few basic forms. This shit is red flag signs of amateur hour. The fact that you defend this dogshit is a clear sign of NGMI.

[Anonymous No.6780389]

>>6780387
pyw?

[Anonymous No.6780391]

>>6780389
>pyw

Congrats on admitting you lost. This is the go to deflection most people do so they can turn it into a dick measuring contest where they critique and bring down other peoples work because you upset their frail ego by insulting some fag they dicksucked as an "amazing artist".

Eat a bullet, retard.

[Anonymous No.6780393]

>>6780391
If I show my work, will you show yours?

[Anonymous No.6780401]

>>6780368
i cant trust this cos the voice is not sincere. it's a voice over?

[Anonymous No.6780419]

>>6780363
I explained what I meant and even provided an example to contrast with OP's Russian figure study. Yes, normies will be satisfied with the Russian drawing because they don't regularly see great art and don't have a standard for comparison. It's not being a snob to aim higher. I would take the best periods of Italian and French art over Russian art any day, although I do respect and appreciate some of the great Russian artists of the past.

[Anonymous No.6780441]

>>6780419
Here's another example. Compare Vanderpoel's simple treatment of shadow and light masses to OP's busy handling.

[Anonymous No.6780453]

>>6780044
>>6780441
if american artists did anything right, it was that they made art and art instruction easily accessible to the public which is why you know more of them but the trickle down started from europe
im not european so id like to read any insight from a euro that knows about art history

[Anonymous No.6780466]

>>6780441
>>6780067
aww anon, that's alright, you don't have to desperately try to defend your favorites against the weakest academic student.

[Anonymous No.6780486]

>>6780453
It depends on the subject matter, but for the human figure the highest achievements were from ancient Greece, then the Italian Renaissance, then to the French painters of the 19th century. Many of the best American artists of the colonial era trained in Italy, and a later generation of American artists trained in France under Gerome and others, then brought that teaching to the United States.

Of course that's something of a simplification and there were outliers from other places. The shin hanga woodblock print movement in Japan (early 20th century) produced some beautiful figures (see picrel), but especially landscapes and seascapes.

[Anonymous No.6780490]

>>6780466
>posts the textbook on busy, scattered rendering

[Anonymous No.6780494]

>>6780486
In what way do you rate 19th century French figures higher than renaissance figures?

[Anonymous No.6780497]

>>6779749

sigh. i only wish someone can rip off their 12 perspective video. i always get lost and then they restart the stream..

[Anonymous No.6780522]

>>6779807
russia literally always mogged usa in visual art, that’s part of the reason spooks decided to fund the shit out of modern art to change the narrative by making classical art démodé and regressive

[Anonymous No.6780528]

>>6780042
it’s true though, the greatest american exemplars of art are guys that illustrated billboards and ads and people who were only americans by blood, having lived and learned in europe their whole lives like sargent

[Anonymous No.6780615]

>>6780367
You're too narrow minded. Try taking a few (a bunch of) steps back.

>>6780494
Not him but https://ramonhurtado.com/19cdatabase.. It's just so much finer that what was achieved by the Renaissance artists, and considering something like the Mona Lisa, which was a year old experiment, I would argue that a goal of the Renaissance artists would have been to reach that degree of technical ability

[Anonymous No.6780633]

>>6780615
>It's just so much finer that what was achieved by the Renaissance artists
i agree with this but i dont know the rigors involved in the renaissance time, isnt most of it lost?
i dont remember if it was an entrance exam or some kind of final but for academie julien, you had to do huge master copies, from MEMORY, i'm talking about masters like Ingres

[Anonymous No.6780635]

>>6780633
actually it might have been the ecole, its been awhile since ive read about it

[Anonymous No.6780636]

>>6780615
I'm not clicking that

[Anonymous No.6780655]

>>6780615
>You're too narrow minded

Hopefully you will be once a bullet removes all your brain matter.

[Anonymous No.6780692]

>>6780615
Those are studies, not artwork

[Anonymous No.6780726]

>>6780494
>>6780615
I didn't mean to suggest the French figures were better than renaissance figures, only that the French were carrying the torch, so to speak, during the 19th century. Compared to the French painters like Bouguereau, Gleyre, etc., the works of the renaissance were more poetical and did not aim as much toward imitation of observed reality. It's easy to tell if a figure is one by Michelangelo or Leonardo, less so with any French academic or neoclassical painter (although in the latter case, overall paintings can still be recognized as to their author).

Speaking of Leonardo, the beauty of his drawings has never been outdone in any era, regardless of the subject matter.

[Anonymous No.6780731]

>>6780726
Why Europeans are so ugly?

[Anonymous No.6780764]

>>6780633
>you had to do huge master copies, from MEMORY, i'm talking about masters like Ingres
You have some source on this? I've heard of memory training, but not to this extent, rather, as something experimental worth pursuing further (from memory (eh) a little book written by a woman, praised in the preface by her peers after successful experimentation with students).

>>6780636
That's just a bunch of 19th century atelier drawings/paintings. There are a few naked teenagers though; people back then weren't as mentally challenged as they are today.

>>6780655
> Mommy someone on the Internet say something "bad" about me
The level of immaturity. "Narrow mind" was used literally, not in a pernicious way;I'm not 13.

>>6780692
Yes and? This doesn't invalidate the point. For finished works, you have the usual suspects: Bouguereau, Gérôme, the orientalists, etc.

>>6780726
>did not aim as much toward imitation of observed reality
I *think* this is wrong;I would argue that they couldn't out of various limitations, not that this was intentional. And not that I think either that imitation of life is the pinacle of art either. Actually, neither was I suggesting that the French were better in imitation of life.

Consider Bargue's plates for example. It's *not* an imitation of reality, you can tell from the plates for instance that there's often various kind of simplification devices being used. But it's overall very subtle, tight and delicate:it's objectively more refined that what was performed by the pioneers, from which Bargue & cie educated themselves.

> Speaking of Leonardo, the beauty of his drawings has never been outdone in any era, regardless of the subject matter.
Thank you.

But more seriously, they still feel unrefined when compared to later works: think of the level of value control of a Bargue, the masterful hatching handling of a Julien. Both French btw.

[Anonymous No.6780819]

>>6780764
>You have some source on this? I've heard of memory training, but not to this extent, rather, as something experimental worth pursuing further (from memory (eh) a little book written by a woman, praised in the preface by her peers after successful experimentation with students).
sourced from the french academie book by albert boime

[Anonymous No.6780916]

>>6780819
Thanks, will look into it

[Anonymous No.6780997]

>>6780466
post the book please

[Anonymous No.6781003]

>>6780764
>I *think* this is wrong;I would argue that they couldn't out of various limitations, not that this was intentional. And not that I think either that imitation of life is the pinacle of art either. Actually, neither was I suggesting that the French were better in imitation of life.
>Consider Bargue's plates for example. It's *not* an imitation of reality, you can tell from the plates for instance that there's often various kind of simplification devices being used. But it's overall very subtle, tight and delicate:it's objectively more refined that what was performed by the pioneers, from which Bargue & cie educated themselves.

I don't really disagree with you. I just think the Renaissance artist's idea of reality was different from Bargue's, less optical and more "felt." I realize that seems at odds with the then-recent discovery of linear perspective but ideas change gradually and in fits and starts.

Bargue etc. relied more heavily on models. Michelangelo of course studied models but composed entire pictures from imagination. He had a "type," a figure that is instantly recognizable both for its proportions and in the way it is modeled more to clarify form than to suggest the fall of light. The great comic artists of the mid-20th century have more in common with Michelangelo than do the modern atelier painters.

This is a matter of preference, but I like the "unrefined" handling of those older drawings, and I generally prefer a certain degree of roughness in drawing (but not too much!) over anything too slick.

Picrel shows a drawing by Frank Cho, who is one of the best comic artists working today, alongside a drawing from one of Mort Drucker's MAD illustrations (parody of the film "Dressed to Kill"). I admire Cho's clean-but-still-expressive inking, but Drucker's work really hits the spot. It just sings.

[Anonymous No.6781020]

>>6781003
>I don't really disagree with you
Yeah, I think we're kinda on the same space.

> This is a matter of preference, but I like the "unrefined" handling of those older drawings, and I generally prefer a certain degree of roughness in drawing (but not too much!) over anything too slick.
I think to teach, it's better to propose students with something more polished. Once they have good control over value, a more "unrefined", painterly style, is easier to achieve. I think that the style depends on the topic: some subject matters are better suited for a rough rendering than others.

A very relevant example would be Schmidt's painting of girls, with a smooth/polished face, but an often much more rough background/clothing.

[Anonymous No.6781061]

>Russian art students spend 15 years drawing bottles and roman columns just to end up as a mediocre photocopyist
Terrible. Waste of time. I guarantee you none of them are capable of animating a walk cycle or drawing a capeshit comic. If only they'd just studied Vilppu, they'd actually make some art of commercial value

[Anonymous No.6781075]

>>6781061
>american animation

[Anonymous No.6781077]

>>6781075
pic related was done by someone from /ic/. Can an "Imperial" Russian Art student, who has drawn from life for 20+ years, do something so soulful? Being self-taught is infinitely better

[Anonymous No.6781086]

>>6781077
>weebconsoomshit

[Anonymous No.6781094]

>>6781077
Soulful? This beg-tier trash?

[Anonymous No.6781095]

>>6781086
>>6781094
butthurt russians. No one cares about your outdated realistist farts

[Anonymous No.6781099]

>>6780361
if you train on making lame shit, you'll become more comfortable with doing lame works.

[Anonymous No.6781100]

>>6781099
You're lame

[Anonymous No.6781109]

>>6780020
old masters were able to stylize from the beginning and it's why their works have much more lasting impact. there is no if leonardo doesn't or does stylize. his work IS stylized from the beginning. even by the nature of the medium in this example, it would be stylized with his choices in lines. we just don't recognize a lot of older art as stylized because we are used to stylization meaning anime, modernism, comics, or cartoons.

[Anonymous No.6781111]

>>6781109
their masters' choices in lines*

[Anonymous No.6781114]

>>6781077

[Anonymous No.6781117]

>>6781114
yikes

[Anonymous No.6781119]

>>6780042
both russia and america have always been bad.
>>6779966
anglos in general have never been tasteful. the best painter to have lived in england was hans holbein.

[Anonymous No.6781129]

>>6781117
>yikes

this is you. i hate you..

[Anonymous No.6781132]

>>6781077
People studying classical painting don't specialize in animation? Man, you've really opened my eyes.

[Anonymous No.6781137]

>>6781119
>The best anglo painter was holbein
Yes...let's ignore John Martin, Millais, Tuke, and Solomon J. Solomon

[Anonymous No.6781166]

>>6781132
my point is that they can't draw from imagination, which severly hampers their expressive powers

[Anonymous No.6781169]

>>6781099
Yeah, of course.

I always forgot that you're knowledge of art, and of the teaching of art, by far surpasses that of Leonardo or Gérôme, or pretty much any fine-art teacher ever.

Let's laugh at those faggots classical musicians who learn by imitating Bach & Mozart. What a bunch of extra-dummies.

Can you bottle me one of your fart anon? I'd like to know you better.

[Anonymous No.6781172]

>>6781169
your* knowledge ofc

[Anonymous No.6781176]

>>6781169
leonardo's artistic upbringing is nothing like what these ateliers are actually doing. gerome's is different from leonardo as well. why else do they produce different results?
it's irrelevant to bring up classical musicians training on bach or mozart. these academic artists rarely study old masters and especially not using the same techniques or materials nor are they guided by the same spirit as any.
it's better to follow a few similar old master painters than a wide range in a mock "classical tradition" because otherwise the only thing common is "realism" or that they are "figurative."
try not to be like proko.

[Anonymous No.6781178]

>MFW all those skilled artists will get drafted and die in muddy ditches of eastern Ukraine

[Anonymous No.6781179]

>>6781176
You don't understand the point / are acting in bad faith. Educate yourself if you want, I couldn't care less.

[Anonymous No.6781212]

>>6781178
>Spend 5 years in an art academy
>Grind every day like there's no tomorrow
>Get conscripted and sent to a meat grinder as a rifleman
>Die horribly
>Hohols will find your pocket sketchbook with amazing drawings and post it on the internet
If this isn't surreal I don't know what is

[Anonymous No.6781226]

>>6781179
i already know where sentiments like yours end. still haven't seen good art from the atelier heads. it can work if you're ultimately aiming for something drastically different than the training, but even then there are ways to learn that are more relevant with less time wasting.
the analogies with leonardo and gerome or classical music don't hold up because of how different the cultures and situations are.

[Anonymous No.6781228]

>>6780044
Frank Frazetta produced some of the most imaginative and atmospheric painted scenes in all history, yet couldn't draw feet for shit, and his perspective and proportions were a little wonky. He truly is a quintessential example of great American art, unbeatable in terms of dynamics, soul, colour, and shadow, even though imperfect in some of the fundamentals. American art is truly underrated and is chockful of my favourite artists and artworks in world history, and I say this as a non-American.

[Anonymous No.6781248]

How about anime AND academic painting?

[Anonymous No.6781321]

>>6781226
>the analogies with leonardo and gerome or classical music don't hold up because of how different the cultures and situations are.
Yet the three of them demand accuracy as a foundation. And if you dig a little, it's been like that forever, everywhere on Earth: you start by precisely copying your master. Same thing in science: you start by reproving well-known results, familiarizing yourself with famous experiments.

Then, only then, can you think of outgrowing your master.

You don't know what you don't know. You can't outgrow something you don't even understand properly to begin with.

[Anonymous No.6781378]

>>6779989
in all fairness most people don't appreciate high art, so you can't expect the kid to appreciate it like another artist would - besides with such skills you'd make sick anime so the answer is to draw serious things to flex with fellow artists and in free time make silly anime drawings for your nephew, probably of his waifu

[Anonymous No.6781382]

>>6781075
I mean Spiderverse is every animators wet dream and is pushing the envelope. Most beautiful animations today are from american studios so to say it's all hogwash like Velma is just unfair.
Disney and Pixar animation (and imo some netflix ones too) are very beautiful. Frozen is STILL a thing today and it's animations and designs is literally all it has going for it, sure af ain't the story.

[Anonymous No.6781385]

>>6781075
>american commercials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn-zYXfdi1Y&pp=ygUPaGFuZCBydWJiaW5nIGFk

[Anonymous No.6781394]

Nothing stops you from learning academical drawing in US/EU. You have at least few ateliers teaching similar methods
You think it's ""high art for le adults"" because you're kid. It's to gain solid skill so you can draw everything you want

[Anonymous No.6781398]

>>6781394
Don't remember in which book but Richard Williams ( I think) said something like this to a artists with great academical skills
>"Give me a time and I can paint same realistic 1:1 painting of human figure from reference because I was taught to do this too"
>"We don't need this shit. Rendering isn't art here"
And the topic was about necessary skills for drawing human figure and importance of life studies.

[Anonymous No.6781405]

what a garbage thread btw

[Anonymous No.6781441]

somehow all this kitsch high culture bolshevik conserved academism did not make them civilized, they are all some of the most corrupt, most selfish and cruel societies on earth. really makes your noggin wonder if art even has any value

[Anonymous No.6781443]

>kitsch
retarded baboon

[Anonymous No.6781447]

>>6781443
subhuman cattle, worship your portrait of lenin, painted in the best renaissance techniques

[Anonymous No.6781457]

>>6781441
Fuck off retard. There is no other nation more corrupt, degenerate, selfish, cruel and morally bankrupt than america right now.
The fuck are you on about? Go back uncultured fag.

[Anonymous No.6781476]

>>6781457
not him, and while your correct - so is he.
It's fucking hell living in Russia and classism was spearheaded there faster than in america.
I know personally 3 russian artists and all 3 work for american companies because there's fuck all to do there as one.
Culture and high art never has and never will put bread on the table in former USSR (speaking from experience) and everywhere else for that matter.
As for being cruel and morally bankrupt that absolutely fits the bill in Russia lmao. if your not with the party your as good as cattle, especially if your poor

[Anonymous No.6781492]

>>6781457
t. retard who never was outside of the West.

[Anonymous No.6781498]

>>6781457
Ever heard of China?

[Anonymous No.6781507]

>>6780050
kek

[Sir No.6781515]

>>6780387
>Vipplu is amazing at figure drawing and he uses a few basic forms. This shit is red flag signs of amateur hour.
Funny thing Vipplu has video about academic approach study in his courses and he generally spoke about this, as I remember not only, not only in the book but facebook videos too. And not only him but all favorite teachers /ic/ did the same. Because this is fundamental skill you need to know if you want to draw human figure successfully after all. Sadly this anon doesn't draw otherwise he would know this.

Remember kids this place is turbo shitposting crab zone. Be glad ESL chad like me is always here protecting you from crabs. You can hide this kuso thread. It's not worth reading.

[Anonymous No.6781523]

>>6781515
>t. pedoweeb

[Anonymous No.6781529]

>>6781476
>>6781492
>>6781498
>"the party"
What the fuck are you talking about? Go back to 1989
>"China"
What china? The china that builds your fucking I-phone and your fucking tesla?
Flash news "anon", america passed out at the curve, drunk, high on fentanyl and cocaine, with his trans tits out and a busted ass. While China and Russia are putting the fucking world in order right now.
Don't get me wrong, I'm counting on america getting its shit together at some point hopefully in the near future. But it's about time for you to wake the fuck up, get out of the nuclear bunker and look what's going on out there.

[Anonymous No.6781536]

>>6781529
And how does any of this makes the USA more corrupted than China?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_China#People's_Republic_of_China

[Anonymous No.6781538]

>>6781523
NGMI
fine art belongs to cunnylords

[Anonymous No.6781541]

>>6781536
China has brutal laws against corruption no? Death penalty.

[Anonymous No.6781545]

>>6781536
Anon please. The USA is by now the most corrupted criminal global organization ever in the history of mankind.
Maybe China after 100 years of global hegemony can dispute that title. But that's far away yet. Again I'm counting on america working a miracle going back to the primal values that made our nation the home of the american dream. With health care for our people, a secure job with strong unions, good education with safe schools. A nation taking care of their people. I'm not seeing that happening anytime soon. And my eyes are wide open.

[Anonymous No.6781555]

>>6781166
I can

[Anonymous No.6781560]

>>6781541
> China has [...] laws
This is already up for debate. It's a fucking totalitarian regime.

>>6781545
It's the country whose leader can ban Winnie the Pooh from the Internet because someone said they look alike. Meanwhile in the USA, Clinton & cie are accused of being blood thirsty satanist, and everyone's just laughing publicly about it.

Just watch the numbers: https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022/index/chn

You underestimate the intensity of the corruption, and of the social issues in China.
Grass is greener on the other side, yada, yada.

[Anonymous No.6781598]

what's a good resource for learning proper muscle memory and stroke training?

[Anonymous No.6782558]

>>6781457
>Fuck off retard. There is no other nation more corrupt, degenerate, selfish, cruel and morally bankrupt than america right now.
>The fuck are you on about? Go back uncultured fag.
There's many things I dislike about america, yet I would not say it exemplifies those things.

[Anonymous No.6782569]

>>6782558
Nta but by the time it exemplifies those thing it would be too late. It would be like russia just when the soviets collapse or some african military dictatorship. Look at the looting problems in San Francisco and the decline of population in California.

[Anonymous No.6782575]

>America produces good art constantly.
>I sleep
>America produces some shitty highly stylized art
>"The juice are taking over"

[Anonymous No.6782620]

>>6781212
everything about Russia is surreal.
Including how it treats its most talented people.
Like, russians like to brag about their great literature, right?
Someone took the time and made a list - practically every (now) famous writer or poet was abused in some way by Russian current rullers, expelled, arrested, thrown into gulag or murdered.
I bet its the same with Russian artists.

[Anonymous No.6782628]

Bunch of anti Russian shils in here. Russia is based. Not degenerate like USA

[Anonymous No.6782651]

>>6782620
communism is one hell of a drug

[Anonymous No.6782672]

>>6782620
It is impossible for the average american to grasp the complexity of any culture that does not engage in nigger worship

[Anonymous No.6782755]

>>6782651
It was no different in tzar times and is no different in current russia, the list consisted of all famous writers

>>6782672
>sees something negative about Mighty Russia
>instantly spergs about niggers and calls everyone american

I'm not a burger, durna kurwo, go sniff on your onuca.
Entire Russian culture is about embracing unavoidable pain and suffering they have to endure thanks to their cruel masters, be it tsars, commisars or "presidents".
It sunk in so deep its part of their religion, its inrooted so deep even today they obediently go to their certain deaths when ordered to.
It was often described beautifully by russian artists, but this is all very sad and depressing.

[Anonymous No.6782769]

>>6782755
shitskin

[Anonymous No.6782779]

>>6782628
Weird, I don't think any "russian" dwells in this board, but /ic/ stills much appreciates the artistic knowledge and legacy from that nation. That's the positive result of keeping /pol tards and their shit out of this artistic haven.
These foreign little cancer cells are predestined to fail. People are getting tired of these little nazis pushing everyone around.

[Anonymous No.6782812]

>>6782755
>Entire Russian culture is about embracing unavoidable pain and suffering they have to endure thanks to their cruel masters, be it tsars, commisars or "presidents".
I unironically read this as
> Entire American culture is about embracing unavoidable pain and suffering they have to endure thanks to their cruel masters, be it tsars, commisars or "presidents".

[Anonymous No.6782838]

>>6782812
If you're really intersted about this side of Russian culture, I would advise you to read a book "Pandrioszka" by Krystyna Kurczab-Redlich, written by a woman who loves Russian people and lived in Moscow for many years.
Sadly, I don't think it's been translated to English..

>>6782769
You got it wrong, its the shitskins who shill for Russia, especially on /k/ and /pol/.

[Anonymous No.6782846]

>>6782812
Damn you guys sure are pathetic.
One thing is being able to understand that you live in deep shit and trying to change something for the better.
Another thing is being proud that you live in shit while your rulers fuck you in the ass and send you to death while they make billions.
But I guess it's too hard for you to grasp such a concept.

[Anonymous No.6783336]

>>6782672
>nigger worship
fail to see how the usa engages in that

[Anonymous No.6783345]

>>6783336
>BLACKED

[Anonymous No.6783353]

>>6782672
>nigger worship
oh boy...

[Anonymous No.6783358]

>>6783336
amerimutt culture is literally centered around nigger worship

[Anonymous No.6783363]

>>6783358
stop watching Ben shapipo and touch grass.

[Anonymous No.6783368]

>>6783363
>watching a jew brain washing america
not even twice

[Anonymous No.6783383]

>>6783363
Don't need a kvetching yid to tell me of the nigger infestation.

[Anonymous No.6783384]

>>6783383
Nice webm

[Anonymous No.6783404]

terrible thread

[Anonymous No.6783409]

>>6779749
Weebs BTFO

[Anonymous No.6783662]

>>6780997
I always see these public pictures with people that are clearly posing and think how dumb this would look in person. even the girl on the left looks confused

[Anonymous No.6783686]

>>6779749
Drawing from reference is a good learning method and all, but honestly, if you're not doing something from memory in your own style, wtf even is the point in this day and age?

[Anonymous No.6783955]

>>6782779
there's me and i say stop with these threads already

[Anonymous No.6784154]

>>6782846
Nah it's a misunderstanding: I literally read it as
> Entire American culture is about embracing unavoidable pain and suffering they have to endure thanks to their cruel masters, be it tsars, commisars or "presidents

Which I thought was funny on itself. Before that, I was about to answer that other cultures do embrace unavoidable pain and make religions out of it (in Asia in particular). But then I stopped realizing it was a actually Russian

The idea being that it would have worked, to some degree, for America because of their strong competitive mindset.

But anyway.

>>6782838
I'm already down in some many rabbit holes, let me finish some of those first.

[Anonymous No.6785440]

>>6782755
>it’s a seething toilet cleaner
like clockwork

[Anonymous No.6785768]

>>6779749
>the video is full of propaganda (nothing new from russkies) and hurr hurr, Westerners teach only the modern art
>"you can't be self-tough" (same as to live without a tsar?)
>look at https://www.artrenewal.org/Atelier/Search
>let's say https://www.swedishacademyofrealistart.se/figure-drawing-painting
>russkies mogged again

[Anonymous No.6785784]

>>6780048
Honestly this. I'm russian and I don't understand why you people want to join them so much. I have an acquaintance who went in Imperial Art academy and her art is so incredibly fucking boring, it's literally all boring ass still lifes, landscapes with 1 to 1 references and like 1000 paintings of statues and old crap. They don't even do digital art, so if you want to work in cinema/videogames/animation industry it's all fuckin useless. It's actually much better if you discipline yourself and learn art yourself, because the old grumps who teach there haven't touched a computer in their entire life. Believe me, it isn't worth it.
Good luck in your journey to you though

[Anonymous No.6785950]

>>6785784
> it's literally all boring ass still lifes, landscapes with 1 to 1 references and like 1000 paintings of statues and old crap
>They don't even do digital art
Well, they do advertise themselves as a fine-art academy...

Besides still-life, landscape & cie are great exercises. It's not art, those are studies. It's like if you saw and a man working out with a jump rope and went on "oh, dude, that guy's boxing is so fucking useless".

Besides, switching to digital art if you have solid trad skills shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Anonymous No.6786050]

>>6785950
not him, but for a lot if not most of these painters, those still lives and landscapes are all they are comfortable doing. they exhibit them as art as well.

[Anonymous No.6786054]

it seems like its only good for hyper realistic portraiture. renaissance style drawing is a totally different thing practiced by V and most figure drawing instructors

[Anonymous No.6786079]

>>6786050
Granted.

I'd maintain that "they're doing it wrong" and that were they actually push themselves, they could do much more than le pretty pictures.

>>6786054
It's *not* hyper realistic, in the usual sense of "hyper realistic" (human photocopier). It's actually even stylized, as they often emphasize volumes and anatomy.

[Anonymous No.6786180]

>>6785784

Trad art skills translate to digital art anon.

[Anonymous No.6786266]

>>6779964
>Artistic screeching

[Anonymous No.6786277]

>>6785784
>Honestly this. I'm russian and I don't understand why you people want to join them so much.
Because you're a retard like all most anons ITT.
Your """acquaintance""" either doesn't exist or retarded too.

[Anonymous No.6786278]

>>6786277

[Anonymous No.6786281]

>>6786278
"Today many schools of the West abandoned long academic studies, thus limiting the ability of young
artists in their mastery of pictorial literacy. At the Academy of Fine Arts many students performing
academic assignments often pay little attention to quick drawing. It is necessary that during their training
that knowledge and skills are gained in not only time consuming academic drawing but also quick
sketches and studies. In this way professional, competent and creative drawing skills are developed."

[Anonymous No.6786292]

why the fuck would you seek approval from this collection of jeering fools

[Anonymous No.6786297]

>>6786292

[Anonymous No.6786532]

Russian mocks the west, it's not even funny anymore

[Anonymous No.6786566]

>>6781119
>both russia and america have always been bad
is that why chinks translate russian art books constantly?
dumb ass nog

[Anonymous No.6787985]

>>6786054
vilppu’s shit is not renaissance drawing, you fell for a marketing meme
even he outright says it’s what he believes the drew like and has zero evidence for

[Anonymous No.6788028]

>>6781560
America is run by bloodthirsty satanists but thats okay because China banned Winnie the Pooh (according to the experts)

[Anonymous No.6788029]

>>6782755
>Butthurt belter seething
Yes tell me how terrible life is in Russia from your appartment building in Berlin, Germany

[Anonymous No.6788053]

>>6786566
>the chinese like them therefore good
???

[Anonymous No.6788078]

>>6788053
the chinks aren't a bunch of niggerlovers like americunts so yes that automatically makes them more tolerable

[Anonymous No.6788187]

>>6788028
That's not the point, at all.

Let me spell it out, so that you have no excuses to mis-interpret me: this peculiar example perfectly illustrates the difference in intensity with with the ruling class exert its power over the people in America compared to China.

You could claim that it's an isolated example.

To which I'd answer: there's (much) more. The recent "disappearance" of Jack Ma for a few months, right after he publicly spoke against China's top dogs. Or the social credit system. Or the advanced facial recognition system. Or the great firewall. Or the fact that every major business in China is tied to the regime, directly. Or the high degree of corruption in academia. Or the commonness of the police/official bribes. Or the heavy restrictions for Western businesses to be allowed to operate in China.

The issues in the West are comparably small. Not inexistant, nor negligible either.

Why am I even educating you.

[Anonymous No.6788188]

>>6788187
with which*

[Anonymous No.6788189]

>>6788187
nigger

[Anonymous No.6788192]

>>6788189
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.6788194]

>>6788192
kek

[Anonymous No.6788202]

>>6779956
>anon discovers firsthand why this bullshit died out and got replaced by schizo money laundering
It's been paint by numbers bullshit for many centuries, with many movements prior to the invention of the camera revolving around shitting on people for not following numbers hard enough.

[Anonymous No.6788209]

>>6788202
sweet kek what level of COPE is this

[Anonymous No.6788220]

>>6788209
why are you booing me i'm right

[Anonymous No.6788232]

>>6779956
it's not enough that you are a massive dunning kruger, you are also dumb af.

[Anonymous No.6788237]

>>6781077
your dunning kruger is showing.

[Anonymous No.6788258]

>>6788220
whatever u have to tell urself buddy

[Anonymous No.6788291]

>>6788187
>social credit system
stopped reading there, you fell for a meme, fucking bologna is closer to implementing a social credit system than china

[Anonymous No.6788418]

>>6788291
>stopped reading there, you fell for a meme
Assuming you're right on this peculiar point, it doesn't invalidate the overall point.

Now we could debate the status of the social credit system further: (Western) research papers quoting Chinese research papers is not exactly something I'd consider trustworthy. Don't underestimate the weight of economical links, nor should you underestimate their propaganda.

What is certain anyway, is that they do have the intent to set it up.

Believe you're in the worst country in the world if you want. When you'll be facing real trouble, you'll be able to adjust your "misery scale" more accurately.

Enjoy yourselves.

[Anonymous No.6788464]

>>6788418
You sound fucking brainwashed, m8
Did you actually read about le social credit system outside of the tabloids that pass for newspapers these days? It doesn’t fucking exist, fucking UBI is more of a reality, and again, Italians and Bologna in particular is further along than China purportedly is.
>hurrrrr quoting my headcanon doesn’t mean I’m not right

[Anonymous No.6788488]

>>6779749
>something good in russia
>not a scam
>not cherrypicked bullshit or propagnada
kek, westerners are funny and very gullible
t. half-russian

[Anonymous No.6788529]

>>6788488
dude, honestly I'd gladly stay in russia, you can legit provide yourself a good life being a nsfw artist, in saint-petersburg for example it's so nice: everything is incredibly cheap, the city is beautiful and convenient, the only downside (and the biggest too) is that our ruler is a schizophrenic that decides to make a new clusterfuck every 5-10 years.
But still MUCH MUCH better than ukraine though

[Anonymous No.6788532]

>>6788529
in addition I think that's why a lot of good nsfw artists (and sfw too) are from Russia: tarakanovich, devilhs, james d compass are the ones that come first to my mind

[Anonymous No.6788535]

>>6788529

[Anonymous No.6788539]

>>6788535
am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.6788544]

>>6788539
let us ignore for a second you replied by complete switching the topic, you then proceeded to shit out cope like you are paid for it
if i wanted to hear the delusional ramblings of some retard with them having nothing to show for i would just asked the part of my russian side of my family which is still stuck in russia
you have no power here, i'm not part of the cult and i have seen what the cult can do to you, if anything your words should be taken as a warning and example

[Anonymous No.6788545]

>>6788544
this is my first post here lul

[Anonymous No.6788550]

>>6788545
and? you playing dumb now because your little schtick didn't worked?

[Anonymous No.6788551]

>>6788544
mindbroken kek

[Anonymous No.6788553]

>>6779749

[Anonymous No.6788554]

>>6788550
what schtick? please touch some grass, it looks like you need it man

[Anonymous No.6788555]

>>6788545
>>6788551
Someone is salty.

[Anonymous No.6788557]

>>6788550
called it:
>you playing dumb now because your little schtick didn't worked?

[Anonymous No.6788560]

please stop coping so hard lol

[Anonymous No.6788562]

>>6788554
>is said to play dumb
>plays dumb

>>6788555
braindead russians and their cuck followings always act like this, you say something bad about russia and they follow you around so long until they think they had their revenge, it is pathological and easy to notice. almost expected it to happen when i pressed post on my first post. it is almost guranteed to happen.

[Anonymous No.6788567]

>>6788562
I dunno what is more funny, how blantantly obvious they are with it or how stubbornly they continue to do it until everyone noticed it, only to then act like they have done nothing and everyone else is supposed to be mad.

[Anonymous No.6788569]

>>6788562
>actual chimp out

[Anonymous No.6788574]

>>6788555
not the same guy btw, i'm just a bystander tasting some very emotional tears.

[Anonymous No.6788576]

>>6788567
it is deeply routed in the russian culture, having the last word in an argument is like winning the argument, it does not matter how stupid the shit they say is as long as they just had the last word. half of what they say is projections anyway, it gets boring pretty fast and is by design
just look at him flopping around on the side line trying to regain attention, he is mad

[Anonymous No.6788579]

>>6788569
I just said that being an artist in russia is nice I don't even know why they react like a bunch of angry redditors lula

[Anonymous No.6788583]

>>6788579
i'm just as surprised to see someone acting so emotional in a fucking basket weaving forum

[Anonymous No.6788585]

>>6788576
Lel, makes me wonder if he was sent here to sell the course, imagine getting kicked in the ass by your boss because you failed to shadow advertise his shitty art course on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.6788594]

>>6788585
doubt it, but it would be funny though
he is probably just mad i spoke negatively of russia as a partial russian, they really hate it when you break the cult rules and speak negatively over the cult with outsiders, it drives them mad, they just have to react to it
they essentially become instant lolcows, i bet if i kept replying to him he would have replied to me for a few hours, if anyone feels lonely or bored, you know what to do

[Anonymous No.6788639]

>>6788539
You are not wrong anon. He's just seething. The naz1 troll army is trained to target and destroy any opinion like yours. They really believe there can be a new iron curtain for the people's minds today.

[Anonymous No.6788642]

>>6788544
This is how -projecting- looks like.

[Anonymous No.6788644]

>>6788553
BASED. Thanks for the links cultured anon.

[Anonymous No.6788648]

>>6788639
>>6788642
>still seething
Not really a surprise.

[Anonymous No.6788650]

>>6788579
Funny how they cry all day everyday about those "third worlders taking all 'their' commission work". Even asking how "cheap" could it be go living to a "nice" "third world country"... LMAO
these burgers, man, geez

[Anonymous No.6788653]

>>6779807
It quite literally has always been like this

[Anonymous No.6788657]

>>6788639
>Yes, random other anon, you are so right and did i mention how mad and bad that anon is? Because he clearly is with us all agreeing how mad and bad he is.
Babies first troll.

[Anonymous No.6788671]

russian bots found /ic/, it's over