/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6722032]

Do you personally consider all japanese art anime regardless of how realistic it is ?

[Anonymous No.6722080]

I don't consider anything made by the Japanese art.

[Anonymous No.6723709]

>>6722032
Do you personally consider all art cartoons regardless of how realistic it is ?

[Anonymous No.6723734]

>>6722080
Based

[Anonymous No.6723735]

>>6722032
no

[Anonymous No.6723802]

>>6722032
No.
Shit like Dead leaves, Cybersix or King's Ranking do not look like anime, they're pretty much western style cartoons but some autists will flip their shit when you call them japanese cartoons.
Tony Valente made something that is for all intent and purposes a shounen manga undistinguishable from what you'd expect from Shounen Jump but just because it was published in France some people refuse to call it "Manga". Ryuko was made by a nip author but was published in France too, so by this logic it's not manga either. What about Boichi? He's a gook but draws manga in japan, can you not call it manga because pure nippon blood folded 100 times doesn't run through his veins? If you showed any of these to a japanese person they'd call it manga, even their ministry of foreign affairs call it "international manga".
And now what if a japanese anime studio hired foreign guest animators and made some gook studio animate the bulk of the inbetween frames (both are common practices), is it not anime anymore? Are these people not animating anime? What if an american studio hires a nip animator to do key frames, is it not an american cartoon anymore?

All that to say, it is stupid to categorize something into genres according to where its creator comes from. If you did, the term "anime" would be so vague it'd lose all meaning. Rather, I think it's smarter to categorize things based on the medium used, or the aesthetic or art movement it borrows from. In that sense, it is fine to refer to a country, because there is a clear understanding of what "90's japanese TV anime" or "Italian Neoclassicism" refer to.
For example, the pic you posted is best described as a contemporary oil (mixed media?) painting, and this >>6723735 is best described as a japanese woodblock print.

[Anonymous No.6723875]

>>6723802
Can we stop pretending that shit like Castlevania and anything else from that same studio looks like anime as well? They look indistinguishable from the average DC animated thing

[Anonymous No.6723893]

>>6723875
You can grasp the quality of the work by they girls are drawn.

Are they attractive? Are there young ones? And so on, western crap usually has neither while japanese stuff, both

[Anonymous No.6723897]

>>6723875
It's obviously anime inspired so I wouldn't care if someone calls it anime but to me personally it does feel distinctly western.

[Anonymous No.6723943]

>>6723802
>weaboo purists are retards
Groundbreaking stuff, you're right, but the practice isn't completely unfounded I hate to admit. For some reason or another, effectively nobody outside of japan, except a few isolated cases, actually try to sincerely replicate anime to the letter. They only copy on a surface level but never truly commit to making their work "anime" down to the last asshair. They basically don't even demonstrate that they studied it beyond "big eyes and simple nose, sakuga fights, right guys?" Even korea and china do their own thing, just using anime artstyle superficially instead of sitting down and committing to the actual visual/narrative direction that gives the art its particular brand of effect. Like lengthy appreciation of settings/details, and cultivating the mood through them. Or deforming characters appropriately for tone/mood interjections. These kinds of quirks get ignored outside japan and without them the work feels lacking, often vaguely "foreign."
We should all call it "country here" anime. Chinese anime. American anime. Korean anime. If it's anime flavor it's anime, but /a/ can still be autistic by specifying "japanese anime"

[Anonymous No.6723971]

>>6723943
I completely agree with you. There is a good reason none really takes foreign anime/manga seriously, it's nearly always superficial slop with no substance.
But I'm sure it's only a matter of time until more non-japanese actually get it right, which is why I adopted this viewpoint. 10 years ago very few gaijins could actually do convincing anime style, nowadays its more widespread.

[Anonymous No.6723982]

>>6723971
Funny enough I think it's due to foreign people who grew up, from their developmental years, watching a wide variety of anime. They unconsciously internalize more and more of the substantial aspects. But we're still a ways off from many people actually being able to consciously comprehend what they otherwise know intuitively from that. There's always a barrier of the westerner always wanting to stand out as well, individualist cultures make it harder to totally adhere to a thing. We end up instinctively wanting to borrow elements from the other media that we consume outside of anime too. Which is both good and bad. Good if the outside media is of a higher quality than anime (classic films) and bad it it's of worse quality than anime (modern cartoons)

[Anonymous No.6723984]

>>6723943
>>6723971
Just think about it, sometimes we talk about notorious westaboos, but are there any good and possibly influential western artists with strong anime/manga influences and deep knowledge about the medium, while still primary drawing in a western art style?
Even in anime-influenced cartoons like Castlevania and general Netflix/Amazon slop, I feel like the creators of most of those aren't exactly passionate anime fans and just want to make "realistic" cartoons. Maybe Frank Miller being the first one to implement manga techniques to comic books might count, considering he was influenced by Lone Wolf And Cub, which is pretty far from being an entry level series to manga, and he spoke positively often about the medium before he went insane. Adam Warren is another one, but he's significantly less subtle about it than Miller.

[Anonymous No.6723994]

>>6723984
Besides those you listed, I really can't think of any. I'm thinking about some movie directors who were obviously influenced by manga and adequately adapted that to another medium but they aren't illustrators.
I'd be curious to see more.

[Anonymous No.6724003]

>>6723984
Miller was not influenced by anime or manga, rather he was just interested in Japanese culture. A true oldschool weeb.

Joe Mad is who you want to look at when you want to see a fusion of anime style and western sensibilities

[Anonymous No.6724009]

>>6724003
Sorry, that's Joe's book but looks like a cover by Adam Warren

[Anonymous No.6724032]

>>6723984
Xavier Houssin did it pretty early in the century, his stuff paved the way for franchises like Dofus and Wakfu to take root

[Anonymous No.6724330]

>>6722032
Artist?

[Anonymous No.6724592]

I call all animation from Japan "anime" for the same reason I call it a burrito instead of a steak wrap: at some point it's cringe going in the opposite direction too

[Anonymous No.6724644]

>>6724009
Absolutely ruined by the colors. I have no idea how some comic colorists ever got their jobs. Manga influence is more apparent without them

[Anonymous No.6724750]

>>6722032
I only consider drawings made specifically for japanese animation to be "anime". A painting with similar stylization is just a painting with similar stylization. I would count pinups that copy the animation designs to be "anime" too though.

[Anonymous No.6724808]

>>6724644
Very hard to find good colors in any comics that aren't some Euro premium title

[Anonymous No.6724824]

>>6722032
No. The anime/manga style is signified more by the eyes/hair and such, or a combination of them.
It's can be something subtle, but the moment you see something that is anime/manga styled, you know it.

[Anonymous No.6724828]

>>6722032
Anime is just the Japanese word for animation, so anything animated is anime.

[Anonymous No.6724914]

>>6724808
And yet comics keep printing everything in color on shiny expensive paper. What a waste of time and resources. I've seen like 5 comics in my entire life that have acceptable coloring and they'd still look better in inks. But western attention spans need bright traffic sign colors I guess.

[Anonymous No.6724971]

>>6724914
Enki Bilal's stuff or Blacksad were made to be colored and look good. But yes generally you're right

[Anonymous No.6725605]

>>6724330
Naoyuki Kato

[Anonymous No.6727194]

My problem withmost westaboos is that they always have such shit taste, like they enjoy the most generic western shlock that is made to cater to the braindead. I guess this is why on a fundamental level I hate most anime fans as well since the types you'll find almost anywhere on the Internet are extremely surface level and just interested in the most basic ass shit. At the end of the day, whatever influences they take, the Japanese are one of the only good countries when it comes to actually having respect for their own culture. Plus, they portray every other culture through stereotypes. As long as that's intact, I really don't care if they have to produce generic shit like BNHA or Goblin Slayer to live out their western fantasies.

[Anonymous No.6727224]

>>6722032
I can't believe this was made by Japs, it looks pleasant unlike anime

[Anonymous No.6727535]

>>6724644
>>6724808
>>6724914
I'll tell you what's the problem anon, as I'm in the industry.
If the inker does shadows, then coloring it's just applying tone and that's it.
The shadow is already done. You can't change the light direction done on the ink, and that's as much shadow it has: You can't also add MORE black shadow also.
Getting a coloring job with comic grade inking jobs is purgatory.

[Anonymous No.6727545]

>>6727535
IT was different when it was flat colors and a limited palette, those work fine with heavy black in. But trying to add gradients, lighting effects and unlimited colors clashes hard with the traditional flat ink jobs.

[Anonymous No.6727736]

>>6727535
Since you're in the industry, are artists forced by the publisher to change their work a lot? I have a theory that a lot of this terrible coloring is a result of marketing interference. From what I can tell, modern comic audience demands unnecessary color that's objectively handicapping great drawings.
>>6727545
I've always preferred the flat colors of the 70's and 80's comics. Heavy use of black, especially as shadows, just doesn't cooperate with a lot of color. Even anime that use lots of black keep their colors flat.

[Anonymous No.6727778]

>>6727736
Listen.
You get a job as a colorist, and have to work with Inker X and writter X.
If you have inks like this
>>6724644
How the fuck are you supposed to stand out as a colorist and get more work? By picking the correct, most modest tone? Because the lighting and shading is already set. Colorist is the bottom of the barrel, and the teams are often left to the studio to form.
The inker doesn't have a saying on who's going to color his lines, and even if he does, if you are a colorist that's a shitty deal, you'll be an eternal doormat, almost like an assistant.
Imagine an inker (that is taking part of your work) always bringing you to work with him because you paint the best colors that makes his lines shine. That's great for the comic. But that's shitty for you, because you are now not a studio colorist, you are X inker's colorist doing what the inker wants.
You are supposed to be a team?
I'm fine with that.
But again, please in your next reply, tell me how would you color those shaded lines I qouted and make you stand out as a colorist.
And remember, no altering the ink, what's there is there and you are not allowed to add more blacks or remove anything.

[Anonymous No.6727783]

>>6727778
Nta but damn that sounds cucked
I do notice when colors look good if that can give you any relief

[Anonymous No.6728520]

>>6727778
>tell me how would you color those shaded lines I qouted and make you stand out as a colorist
I wouldn't. If you're a colorist I expect you'll disagree with me but I think the practice of breaking up the creative process of making of a comic is fundamentally flawed. In a way you confirmed my theory. A colorist can't just go with whatever he thinks looks the most sensible because of the influence of the market. In this case, the job market. A colorist is, according to you, thinking more about leaving his personal impression, than about making the most compositional sense for the material given to him to color. Because his livelihood depends on that.
I don't think color actually has any utilitarian benefit to offer sequential imagery to be frank, outside of covers and special editions. If that's your livelihood well the western colored comic market won't be going anywhere for a while. I just don't personally appreciate it or see the use beyond special cases, and I believe it's an element bogging down the entire industry compared to its more successful competitor, black and white manga. Colored editions of manga don't do any better than regular editions either. In fact it's a rare sight to see colored editions at all. But obviously, just removing all color alone from comics won't solve anything for that broader competitive dilemma. And I at least respect the grind western colorists have to go through to stay relevant in the industry. At least in the US, there's a devoted niche that demands that product, and providing it doesn't sound easy.

[Anonymous No.6728579]

>>6727778
>Colorist is the bottom of the barrel, and the teams are often left to the studio to form.

fun fact, comic colorists used to literally just be little old ladies coloring by numbers with a set of inks and a brush as a side job, following the color codes given to them by the artist.

For manga fans, colorists in american comics are like the mangaka assistant who only applies screen tones

[Anonymous No.6728585]

>>6728520
>A colorist is, according to you, thinking more about leaving his personal impression, than about making the most compositional sense for the material given to him to color. Because his livelihood depends on that.

This is completely correct, and to add to this same line of logic, comic pencilers/artists also do the same thing. Many pages in comics are drawn not in a way that is made to make the story or panels flow organically for the script, the scene, or the reader, but to make an impressive poster-style picture to sell the original of later on at a convention or through their dealer. Since comic artists don't make much on the pages for the books, they have to always be thinking of making side money later on from those same pages by selling them as a single product like a poster.

[Anonymous No.6728685]

>>6728585
>to make an impressive poster-style picture to sell the original of later on at a convention or through their dealer
With every new thing I learn about the western industry it makes increasingly more sense why it is the way it is. With how many apparent man hours go into illustrating every page (in my opinion, often over-illustrating) its confounding that the artists don't make enough money to subsist on without side hustling. I lurk a lot of comic discussion threads on /co/, and it seems like everyone thinks they have the answers to how to improve the comic industry. But the more I learn about it, the less I believe there really is an answer. There would need to be some upheaval not only at the top of the publisher hierarchy but in the culture of the readership simultaneously. Some practices that are pants-on-head impractical and most importantly, unappealing, have become too ingrained to just change on a whim. I don't envy anyone who went into comics out of passion only to have to stifle all their creativity or their own logic, because it's the only way to survive.

[Anonymous No.6729196]

>>6722032
>>6723802
Anime literally is "made in Japan"

[Anonymous No.6729403]

>>6729196
I thought it literally meant animation or animated. Did Japan invent movement now?

[Anonymous No.6729404]

>>6729403
>Did Japan invent movement now?
Yes, he doesn`t know, lmao. Lurk moar.

[Anonymous No.6729449]

>>6722080
>>6723734
t.CCP hands

[Anonymous No.6730198]

>>6723875
Castlevania absolutely does not look like the rest of those, get your eyes checked.

[Anonymous No.6730221]

I just really appreciate the Japanese take on subjects you don't typically find in US comics and animation. I'm not saying it's superior, but it definitely has a more refreshing feel to it.
I'm not gonna act like there isn't western media I like, or even popular shit that I like. I think one of the biggest things that drew me to anime and manga though, is that it tends to have more room to do what it wants, because its authors worked hard for that freedom from the beginning.

You'd never get a story like Dr. Slump or Gundam or even fucking Doraemon from a western comic in the same period of time, and even now that's only just starting to change because of anime and manga's influence.

[Anonymous No.6730352]

>>6723802
> the term "anime" would be so vague it'd lose all meaning.

Anime means ANIMATION. It's supposed to be vague you midwit. It covers multiple mediums and genres.

People specify country of origin to pre establish language and cultural barriers. "Anime" was just an easier way of saying "animation from japan" but because some autists only associate it with generic shonen and isekai shit they want everyone to say "japanese anime" since every goddamn artist on the planet takes influences from other artists around the world.


Redefining anime as a stock set of design cliches is so reductionist I honestly don't see the point to it all. It's like saying south park isn't a cartoon because it doesn't look like tom and jerry.

[Anonymous No.6730374]

>>6730221
>I think one of the biggest things that drew me to anime and manga though, is that it tends to have more room to do what it wants, because its authors worked hard for that freedom from the beginning.
That's honestly why I watch it. Maybe I just don't understand the industry, but it seems to me like in Japan, due to most series being run by a single person with assistants for small stuff, they can do basically whatever the fuck they want. The American comics industry is absolutely fucked, because if you want any serious work, the two main labels will only allow you to do their cash cows and almost never deviate from outside that. It's so fucking repetitive that over 50% of the comics released by DC annually are fucking Batman comics. Everything written is approved by successive chains of assholes to make sure that it "fits" with the character, the universe they reside in, and how the brand wants to be perceived. Stuff like picrel would absolutely get shitcanned in the first volume alone.
Obviously there's outliers in the US, but those are extremely small labels compared to the big 2 capeshitters.

[Anonymous No.6730801]

>>6730374
>assistants do small stuff

they do most of the work.

[Anonymous No.6731950]

>>6724592
>I call all animation from Japan "anime"
it's the only correct definition.