/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6680629]

How do you write something appealing to female readers without devolving into faggotry?

Do you think Berserk was written for the female gaze? Guts is pretty hot right? And there's emotions and beauty in the story. Girls are all about emotions and shit. But guys like Berserk too.

[Anonymous No.6680632]

>>6680629
Aren't most things by CLAMP popular with girls, if we're trying to (sort of) avoid LGBT stuff in the specific vein of what you'd see on Tapas/Webtoons?

[Anonymous No.6680635]

>>6680629
women are more complicated than men, you cant just draw big titty female character and appeal to them

[Anonymous No.6680639]

Don't appeal to women.

[Anonymous No.6680640]

this is one of the cringe archetypes of "4chan bro". It's like the male version of the tumblrina. Don't make your whole online personality being a hypermasculine dude bro that literally cant even concieve of liking anything that isn't gigachad.
"dude girls like emotions and shit, heh, i wouldnt know anything about that guess im too much of a chad heh what are you a fag dude heh"
It's so embarrassing. We get it, you main Darius and like doing curls.

It's a symptom of being terminally online at 18 i get it but ive just seen so many of you it gets tiring. yeah yeah im a basedboy blah blah blah zzz. Try understanding what women value and stop worrying about "devolving into faggotry". What are you going to accidentally write a gay sex scene? If you can't stomach anything that isnt constant fight sequences then maybe your taste isnt sophisticated and its not a sign that youre "too based".

[Anonymous No.6680642]

>>6680639
This

[Anonymous No.6680653]

>>6680632
I am trying to make my current story appeal to women, not write a new one specifically to appeal to women.

CLAMP mangas look boring, no offense

[Anonymous No.6680660]

>>6680640
they havent realized yet this is all a psyop by gay guys. Men are getting groomed into becoming gay and they havent realized yet. Its no coincidence that both femboys and the ditzy himbo('''chad''') stereotype became so prominent lately. They are consuming gay pornography willingly, becoming alienated from women and developing personalities that attract gay guys.

[Anonymous No.6680661]

>>6680660
you're disgusting and creepy

[Anonymous No.6680663]

>>6680661
you will be either my sissy femboy bf or himbo chad bf and there is nothing you can do about it

[Anonymous No.6680664]

>>6680653
No offense taken at all, was just trying to be helpful by thinking of comics that did well with women traditionally that didn't devolve into full webcomic territory. Just make your characters interesting and have well-defined arcs and the reader demographic will handle itself.

[Anonymous No.6680665]

>>6680629
just don’t

[Anonymous No.6680666]

>>6680663
i hope you get your life together and talk to someone about the porn addiction.

[Anonymous No.6680677]

>>6680666
i watch you naked in the showers and fantasize about sticking my dick into your tight bussy

[Anonymous No.6680680]

>>6680629
>How do you write something appealing to female readers without devolving into faggotry
Straight up this is a meta contextual question that's more appropriate for >>>/lit/ as that question is based on nature/nurture, life experiences, preferences, and storytelling. You aren't gonna 3/4th angle anatomy study your way out of this.
But if you want advice, develop relationships with IRL people who aren't terminally online and have goals in life unrelated to video games, movies, or art. I've had conversations with women who I don't wanna date about life and have gotten different insights that I wouldn't from 4chan

[Anonymous No.6680683]

>>6680660
do gay guys really think this looks good? do they really get off to this lmao

[Anonymous No.6680693]

>>6680683
much better than anything ic can do

[Anonymous No.6680694]

>>6680629
>Do you think Berserk was written for the female gaze
Clearly not, you retard.

[Anonymous No.6680867]

>>6680694
It got flowers and twinks though

[Anonymous No.6680900]

>>6680660
Damn, looks amazing! It's also a very difficult composition to pull off, the colors on the dude on the left are like, baaam, you follow his muscular torso and then BAMAAMAMAB again on his soft shade softbrush ass, cock and balls.

It i s a masterpiece. Fuckit, i'ma draw bara gay porn now cya losesrs

[Anonymous No.6680945]

>>6680660
I wonder how much this guy makes drawing this shit

[Anonymous No.6680949]

>>6680867
It's for men, especially gay men, Griffith wants to fuck Guts so bad that he pretends he isn't gay to get him jealous.

[Anonymous No.6680952]

>>6680629
>because men are incapable of depicting emotion artistically.

[Anonymous No.6680955]

>>6680635
this

[Anonymous No.6680957]

>>6680629
Anything that is about big muscly dudes with "honor" doing manly things is male gaze. Real life example of this? Male bodybuilding. Interesting to note that women tend to find bodybuilders unattractive.

[Anonymous No.6680965]

>>6680683
If there's anything that's consistent about male coomers, whether they're straight or a fag, it's that "hyper" fetishes are pretty common. Ridiculously large tits, ass, penis; extreme amounts of cum, sweat, smell, yaddayaddayadda. Doesn't matter if it's disgusting or nonsensical, it's all about excess of sensation. "Good taste" or "common sense" doesn't come into the equation at all. Like Carl in picrelated.

[Anonymous No.6680972]

>>6680965
Lol stop putting cunts in a pedestal. I know for a fact they can be just as sexually deranged, if not more, than dudes.
>source: doing commission work for years for a lot of people

[Anonymous No.6680978]

>>6680629
If this is a genuine question then >>6680680 has some pretty good points, but here’s my perspective: I’m going to generalize here but guys tend to go for rule of cool and/or attractive women, as long as a story lends itself to cool action and hot babes while still making at least a little sense it’s usually enough. Women aren’t necessarily put off by action but they get bored without emotional stakes - how a character feels about a situation is just as important as the situation itself, and something as abstract and distant as “the world” or “the universe” being destroyed isn’t as much of a stake as something personally important to the character being destroyed. That’s why women can sit through stories made for men as long as the male characters have something personal to care about, especially if it’s another character.

[Anonymous No.6680980]

>>6680629
>How do you write something appealing to female readers without devolving into faggotry?

guts isn't hot for women because he is not a high status character, at least for a long part of the arc

[Anonymous No.6680981]

>>6680680
you are so full of shit
a lot of those people likely don't even consume this kind of art, and literature for women has existed for hundreds of years and the formula for what sells is no secret to be discovered by interviewing anyone

[Anonymous No.6680995]

>>6680972
>can be
Being the key phras. Yes, I know, not all men, not all women, yadda friggin yadda. I know. I know MarmaladeMum exists. I was talking generally. Averages. I hate that I have to make a disclaimer like this every single time I'm making an observation on average tendencies, or else someone always takes it the wrong way. I'm not putting "cunts on a pedestal" either. Sheesh.

[Anonymous No.6681009]

>>6680978
>Women aren’t necessarily put off by action but they get bored without emotional stakes - how a character feels about a situation is just as important as the situation itself, and something as abstract and distant as “the world” or “the universe” being destroyed isn’t as much of a stake as something personally important to the character being destroyed. That’s why women can sit through stories made for men as long as the male characters have something personal to care about, especially if it’s another character.

How many girls like Berserk?

[Anonymous No.6681050]

>>6680972
those ''girls'' who commissioned you were trannies, sorry to burst your bubble

[Anonymous No.6681053]

>>6681009
a lot, actually. Most than likely because the female characters are cute and the setting doesnt feel as shonen shit as, say, bleach.

[Anonymous No.6681061]

>>6681009
I like the art, don't care for the story.

[Anonymous No.6681076]

>>6680653
What kind of story is it?

[Anonymous No.6681096]

>>6680965

[Anonymous No.6681119]

>>6680629
Women are somewhat tricky to write for, outside of romance and drama that is. If you look at studies for media, I seem to recall that almost everything else is a majority male audience. In fact, the only reason women would decide to see things outside of their wheelhouse (drama/romance) was to hang out with friends, while men's reason was because it was a movie they wanted to see.

This isn't to say that action/adventure/thriller/horror/whatever doesn't appeal to women, but what makes them like properties in those areas is rather vague.
Just write whatever, and if it's good, hopefully women will check it out too - like homestuck (though it may have been the shipping shit that attracted women into that)

[Anonymous No.6681168]

>>6680640
That's a good point and if you think about it both troons and BAPtards are just grotesque fetishized caricatures of whatever they're trying to emulate. The first regard women as slutty soft spoken knee-high & skirt wearing things so they imitate that, the latter larp as the knuckle-head violent barbarian. The kicker is they're both gay. Both too online, without any real interest in starting a family because they reproduce by infecting others.

[Anonymous No.6681190]

>>6680629
Berserk has female fans and it has less to do with the "female gaze"

[Anonymous No.6681337]

>>6680629
retard. Be appealing to BOTH male and female. Why will you cut off half the population?

[Anonymous No.6681408]

>>6681061
What’s wrong with the story?

[Anonymous No.6681462]

>>6681096
that gives me an idea

[Anonymous No.6681510]

>>6680629
Moids can't comprehand anything other than coom and violence, ngmi

[Anonymous No.6681767]

>>6680957
What's honorable about bodybuilding?

[Anonymous No.6681776]

>>6681462
>That skeleton
>Manly sons
If anything the right girl will give you men.

[Anonymous No.6681810]

>>6680680
>>>>/lit/
That board, like all online novel writing communities, focuses on grammar and syntax just as much as this board talks about drawing and "3/4th angle anatomy study". Is there a place where they only discuss story writing regardless of the medium?

[Anonymous No.6681855]

>>6680629
Why? Why do you want to appeal to female readers?

[Anonymous No.6681866]

>>6681855
For more viewership, but then you have two (likely) opposing demographic demands.

[Anonymous No.6681871]

>>6681810
Probably not. The ideas behind stories, rather than the technical way they're written, seems like a cultural osmosis thing. Immerse yourself in the content you want to emulate. If you want to appeal to females, start reading stacks of stuff that's been successful with them. There are no shortcuts.

[Anonymous No.6682321]

>>6680629
>Do you think Berserk was written for the female gaze?
>girl gets raped by hot pretty boy she was in love with
You tell me
Also just lol if you think there's no faggotry in Berserk

[Anonymous No.6682351]

>>6681119
Isn't it the other way around somewhat? Plenty of media that is targeted primarily at men (arguably majority of pop culture) has pretty big female following as well, meanwhile media that is targeted at women tends to turn men off.
I'd say that characters make media popular with women, but then again, characters make media popular with men too, at least if we're going from what writing advice books tell you, so it is difficult to pinpoint, I guess.

[Anonymous No.6682393]

>>6682351
>meanwhile media that is targeted at women tends to turn men off
There is an entire board on this website dedicated to a show for little girls that is populated almost entirely by men

[Anonymous No.6682454]

>>6682393
Naturally, it's not universal. Besides, a huge part of the whole thing was how bronies were viewed as weirdos purely because of watching such show at all (other reasons people disliked them appeared later on), meanwhile women enjoying capeshit is not considered weird to such an extent, at least.

[Anonymous No.6682495]

In my goal of relearning pencil drawing, I would grind out all sorts of things, and in these two,I wrote an Angry Wedding. The girl it revolves around is a space mercenary, and an engineer, and has her own agendas other than mating and breeding. I want my literature to inspire females to be competent and not some guy's accessory.

[Anonymous No.6682502]

In another comic,it's revealed that she is the last of her species, but when asked if she felt isolated and sad,she laughs. "If I wanted kids,I'd go to the Splice Factory and order custom models. THIS girl wants to see the GALAXY!". And our species could use more of that.

[Anonymous No.6682868]

>>6682351
>Isn't it the other way around somewhat?
Sure, romantic comedies aren't men's things, and while I was saying that media studies show men are the main consumers, that isn't the case for all media mediums - books are mostly read by women these days.
However movies, video games, comics, even youtube videos are mostly consumed by men. It's easier than ever for anyone to publish their work, and yet many women who produce content still seem to target men as their core demographic as well, rather than creating content for other women.

I personally suspect men just have a far larger breadth of what they're willing to have as entertainment, and what women find entertaining is far narrower in scope (romance, drama, etc), and therefore far less freeing for a creator.
For example, I believe it was the new Charlie's Angels movie, it bombed terribly and the Director was blaming men for it at one point, until it was revealed that men were by far the largest amount of ticket buyers - because it's typically men who want to watch movies, and women just tag along if they're interested and want to hang out (according to some statistics I read anyway).

Anyway, I just think it shows that trying to make something that appeals to both sexes purposely for mass appeal is kind of an awkward thing to do, so just make a good product, and hopefully it'll catch on regardless of sex.

[Anonymous No.6682897]

>>6681767
because it shows that you have actual discipline (if natural) and that you're not a slob who's stuffing his face 24/7 or a lazy bum

[Anonymous No.6682912]

>>6680957
Because modern day body builders dont care about aesthetics only about who's got the biggest muscles with steroids and drugs. This is why women would rather go look at professional athletes.

[Anonymous No.6683071]

>>6680639
This right here.

[Anonymous No.6683103]

>>6680629
Chasing an audience will always lead to a watered down soulless corporate product.
Write something YOU would like. Write for people like you. That’s the only audience you can attract with any certainty.

[Anonymous No.6683114]

>>6681767

To not be useless on moving day and lift up bitches

really all you need that are useful, are squats imo, the rest will just hurt you (deadlift) and too much bench press you can literally die without a spotter

[Anonymous No.6683234]

>>6680639
>>6681866
This. If you need reasons not to, see below:
>>6680640
>>6681168

[Anonymous No.6684076]

>>6680660
why do you have this image saved on your computer?

[Anonymous No.6684390]

>>6680632
clamp appeals to women by having gays and pedophiles everywhere lmao

[Anonymous No.6684402]

>>6680629
>Guts is pretty hot right?
You have already devolved into faggotry.

And there are no limits to fujos, just draw a good story that includes some likeable male characters instead of blank slates and they'll do the faggening for you.
Just never cave in, so that the male audience can stay.

[Anonymous No.6684438]

>>6681096
actully, it's debatale that a female artist made this via looking down at her body and molding
so to say, that photos that are stiched together
via artist ws first

[Anonymous No.6684626]

>>6680629
a rare NSFW,or risque enough to qualify,slice of life comic from the late 80s. I write Cassandra as a being of deep complexity,wearing the necessity of dealing with life with ruthless efficiency as an armor,her skills her pride. This interaction is a rare glimpse into that world.

[Anonymous No.6684722]

>>6684438
retard

[Anonymous No.6684725]

>>6681408
Angry guy kills monsters. Women are weak props used to further him. Casca’s rape was just porn. It’s not really something women want to read. I watched it with a friend. Thought it was pretty meh.

[Anonymous No.6684745]

A recent grind,a portrait that a story grew around.

[Anonymous No.6685030]

Do whatever you enjoy and you will end up attracting some female readers, you can usually find anything aimed at men with a smaller pool of women enjoying it in their own way.
Anecdotal, but Ive seen plenty of stories especially from writers that its usually much harder to get men to try things aimed at women.

[Anonymous No.6685097]

>>6685030
>Anecdotal, but Ive seen plenty of stories especially from writers that its usually much harder to get men to try things aimed at women.

it's called male flight. dont want to touch anything that can give you female cooties

[Anonymous No.6685299]

Here are some guidelines:
~ Men are interested in things whilst women are interested in people
Chicks almost always dig true crime because they're interested in why criminals do what they do, not for the crimes themselves, which usually stick out more to men.
I can't stress enough how important it is to have a character they can empathize with. The more this character represents them; the better.
~ Women want to tame monstrous men. Make the men in your stories troubled dominant boys who secretly care for the girl.
~ Women are usually emotionally not ready for challenging media (upsetting scenes, different worldviews and whatnot)
~ Emotions are key. Where the best shonen stories are based on hard systems, logic and smarts, the best Shoujo stories are usually floaty and not inherently realistic. These stories usually contain messages like love is all that matters and that stuff
~ Girls are absolute fucking suckers for cute shit. Cute mascots, cute leads, cute couples, cute gestures etc

[Anonymous No.6685343]

>>6685299
>Men are interested in things whilst women are interested in people
so men are autistic, got it

[Anonymous No.6685350]

>>6685343
And materialistic while women cares more about people and the important things in life

[Anonymous No.6685363]

>>6680629
>How do you write

This is /ic/, not /lit/. I'm going to assume you mean drawing for the female gaze. Shojo stlye is where it's at

[Anonymous No.6685366]

>>6685350
This makes The Godfather sound like a chick flick

[Anonymous No.6685558]

>>6680683
Yes we do. The bigger the better

[Anonymous No.6685560]

>>6682495
>>6682502
>Another Feminism comic


Yawn

[Anonymous No.6685563]

>>6685350
>Women aren't materialistic


You've literally never talked to a woman

[Anonymous No.6685573]

>>6685363
women don't actually like this. most people who like shojo art and are adults are trans or gay or both. women just have a childhood nostalgia for it (namely only sailor moon). They won't like new content in the style.

Jap Shit with actual large female audiences is shit like my hero academia, genshin, or jojo's bizarre adventure. Appealing to women is just throwing in some male characters that have even the slightest amount of emotional depth so that they can expand upon it on ao3 or in tik tok edits. More than anything, women are storytellers. They like deranged shit to "feel about" see most western romance films (the phantom thread, 50 shades of grey, crimson peak). Almost all romance books are about some mafia don or werewolf being this inaccessible tormented freak

[Anonymous No.6686651]

>>6685363
you mean little girls like that shit

[Anonymous No.6686696]

>>6680680
OH GOD WHAT IS THAT
d-does he eat little boys?

[Anonymous No.6686914]

>>6680693
thanos bros... we lost...

[Anonymous No.6686957]

In this storyboard ,Star,the rabbit and Daisy the muskrat have a history. Both were resistance fighters during the long but recently concluded slave rebellion of the anthromorph races,that posed as a touring folk band . Star,who was the lead singer, hsd a young daughter to care for, so opened her inn. Daisy, the road crew tech was the gadgeteer,accomplishing amazing things with her brand of Little Rascals ingenuity, since all materials used had to be ordinary stuff available to slaves to avoid suspicion if their equipment was searched, which was routinely done. Daisy has had a harder time readjusting to a civilian life, being still radicalized by her participation in the outer anthromorph colonies that still face slaver raids. I have tried to imply that exposition through their dialogue, so the readers unfamiliar with these characters can guess the origin of the argument. Imagine being part of an elite team of James Bond super competent agents,now without work. Her technical skills are useful, but she is feeling rightly outclassed.

If you want to write women, think of their past,and how they can react to the situation they find themselves in. Think of them as people, who can be smart or stupid, vain or unassuming, string willed or shy. People.

[Anonymous No.6686971]

One thing I know is, at least for aesthethics, Olympic-Dames/Kaileigh Blue is one of the way to go for female gaze aesthethics, well, if you want your work to look like something a woman would draw/write/whatever (yes, she is that artist that is famous for drawing "common woman" + big belly, from what i've seen by experience, somehow women like things like this)

https://mastodon.social/@kaileighblue

[Anonymous No.6686981]

>>6680693
Is... Black Panther's cock white?

[Anonymous No.6687119]

>>6686981
Yes

[Anonymous No.6687180]

>>6680629
>Do you think Berserk was written for the female gaze?
no, it's made for men
most women are gonna be turned off by the first chapter where guts has sex with a succubus and then blows her head off
>And there's emotions and beauty in the story.
i get what you mean with the kind of introspection that comes later on, but most women aren't gonna reach that point unless they like all of the ripping and tearing that comes beforehand.
>Girls are all about emotions and shit.
if you look at what stories are targeted for women, then the main source of conflict is not going to be physical. it's either petty, emotional or psychological.
drama is entertaining
that's not to say women are incapable of liking action, but grit and complex machanics won't be the main focus. it's going to be about the visuals and the motivation behind the characters.
>Guts is pretty hot right?
he's not dainty enough
he has the "i can fix him" thing but visually he's too buff.
>How do you write something appealing to female readers without devolving into faggotry?
i'm not exactly sure what's going to be a step too far into faggotry for you.
I'd recommend you think about your character's motivation. what drives them, what are the obstacles in front of them, who would oppose or aid them, etc.
stay away from grimdark. you don't need to make it noblebright, but don't make the world hopeless.

https://www.youtube.com/@localscriptman
this guy makes great writing content, it might help you out.

if i'm going to stereotype what women like, then i'd make the main character's motivations pure and virtuous, avoid gore and male fanservice, wouldn't write female characters as damsels in distress or one note "girl power" characters, keep the setting beautiful, inviting and full of wonder and focus on emotions and character motivations.
>>6685299
very accurate

[Anonymous No.6687984]

>>6687180
>straight men yaoi
kek

[Anonymous No.6688001]

>>6680653
>look boring
But you haven't read them, clearly, so you're fucking retarded to have an opinion on them

[Anonymous No.6688188]

>>6680629
Just so you know, the more you guys go into hypermasculinity the gayer you become. It doesn't hurt to tap into your feminine side once in a while. We're sociable animals anon. If all men were lone wolves we wouldn't have reached this point in history. The healthiest and richest societies are those who value the opposite sex' and their input. The nordic model is a model for a reason.

[Anonymous No.6688198]

>>6681009
I like berserk because of the gorgeous art. I was quite sad when Miura died. I chatted with friends about his passing so I recommended it to her. A few weeks later she called me saying she was disgusted and asked WHY was I alright reading it. I guess I'm numbed to the content but I can see why normal women would refuse to read it. Most women are just tired of seeing a female character get raped. It's not something against Berserk esp since two male characters (main even) who got raped by men. But I can see why women don't like it. If most media have men getting raped men wouldn't be comfortable with it either.

[Anonymous No.6688204]

>>6681009
I like berserk because of the gorgeous art. I was quite sad when Miura died. I chatted with friends about his passing so I recommended it to her. A few weeks later she called me saying she was disgusted and asked WHY was I alright reading it. I guess I'm numbed to the content but I can see why normal women would refuse to read it. Most women are just tired of seeing a female character get raped. It's not something against Berserk esp since two male characters (main even) who got raped by men. But I can see why women don't like it. If most media have men getting raped by men wouldn't be comfortable with it either.

[Anonymous No.6688409]

>>6680629
Make it dessert-themed

[Anonymous No.6689156]

>>6680629
Just stop caring and if you make a good story all sorts of people will like it. I am a woman but I like Berserk for the story and themes, I am not attracted to any of the male characters. I just think it's a good manga. Berserk is a type of story that can be universally liked by people from all backgrounds, it's one of the reasons why it's so popular and successful.

[Anonymous No.6689419]

>>6688001
you dont have to read everything in the fucking world to decide no

dont be so open minded that your brain falls out

[Anonymous No.6689437]

>>6681009
Berserk had a certain influence on my art since childhood however it also developed a specific rape fetish. But im a sperg so this probably wont apply to every person

[Anonymous No.6689466]

>>6688409
>Make it dessert-themed
LOL

[Anonymous No.6689878]

>>6685366
The 1st and 2nd Godfather were such great films.

[Anonymous No.6691144]

>>6680629
Hi OP, just wanted to hop in and say: please kill yourself right now you dumb motherfucker