Why do oil painters choose the most boring subjects?

[Anonymous No.6615219]

Just as with digital, someone working with oil paints could represent anything their mind conjures but 90% of figurative oil paintings are just some inane still life, random portrait or landscape. They could literally paint anything but they unironically choose to invest hours and hours to paint some pots and pans.

Why aren't there fanarts, OCs, character designs, crazy creatures, mechs, anime art, fantasy and sci-fi landscapes in the traditional art scene? Wouldn't normies be more interested in art if IRL galleries were as diverse as the digital art landscape?

There are of course exceptions - Donato Giancola, Ryan Pancoast, Dan dos Santos etc. but the majority of trad artists are just content with putting out the same inane content.

Pic related - Puppeteer Lee, oil on panel

[Anonymous No.6615223]

>>6615219
>oil painters should paint AI style soulless anime whores, NOT what they actually want to paint
not everybody is soulless, anon.

[Anonymous No.6615232]

>>6615219
>"Kitsch is boring"
>"Also why isn't there more Kitsch?"
I bet that picture is already being coomed over by normies because
>"wow is that 2B from the 3D porn i jerk off to? wow the art looks so realistic! so talented"
Why aren't there trad artist who actually aren't fotmtrend whores?
What a buncha kitschslopping hacks.

[Anonymous No.6615236]

>>6615232
I don't understand. portraits, pots and plants are kitsch?

[Anonymous No.6615237]

>>6615236
Yes, they are.

[Anonymous No.6615239]

>>6615232
What's the difference between painting 2B and painting some random model you paid 20 bucks to sit and take a picture?

Ryan Pancoast - oil on canvas

[Anonymous No.6615242]

>>6615239
2B is coombait, the other is just another generic fantasy picture.

[Anonymous No.6615247]

>>6615219
I think it's either because they want to emulate classic oil painters down to the subjects, or because they subconsciously think "hmm, gonna oil paint, I should do a tasteful portrait next to a window with a bowl of fruit", and not "I'm gonna draw anime fotm with spread legs".
The physicality of it is another factor. If you paint something safe, even if it's a dorky subject like 2B, some normie with too much money might buy it from etsy, but more out there stuff will be harder to justify hanging in a living room, and it takes up space in yours if not sold. With digital you can draw whatever because it'll just be a few MBs on your drive or be on some social media.

[Anonymous No.6615248]

>>6615242
>Everyone paints stupid shit and kitch but I don't
Pyw

[Anonymous No.6615253]

>>6615242
PYW

[Anonymous No.6615256]

>>6615247
But I would much rather buy a god-tier oil portrait of one of my favorite characters than of a random girl.

[Anonymous No.6615291]

>>6615219
its mostly because they are grown, adult men who aren't impressed by the same things as a 12 year old. pictures of half naked whores and dragons really aren't that interesting to a normal person.

[Anonymous No.6615300]

>>6615248
>>6615253
Why do you even bother replying while adding nothing and without posting some work first?

Draw me a frog, smoking a cigar.

[Anonymous No.6615301]

>>6615219
>>6615239
>What's the difference between painting 2B and painting some random model you paid 20 bucks to sit and take a picture?
COPYRIGHT and IP. Also, the lore of the last ~100 years is that character design is product design and product design is industrial design, and industrial art/designs are the opposite of fine art because they only exist to sell a non-art product.

[Anonymous No.6615316]

>>6615219
>Wouldn't normies be more interested in art if IRL galleries were as diverse as the digital art landscape
fucking hilarious. you are not diverse. you are the same kind of consumers. it doesn't matter if one paints mario or pokemon and the other one paints 2b. the spirit is essentially the same, able to switch from one to the other without any loss of identity.
oil painters are actually much more diverse in kind that they can't form substantial communities.
>inane content.
you brain is so rotten that you don't even think of art. you think "content"

[Anonymous No.6615321]

>>6615301
Have you been to an art museum? It's filled with pictures of mythology and from the Bible. Fanart has been around since forever, they just didn't call it that.

[Anonymous No.6615326]

>>6615300
If some shits on a kind of work, I assume they must think what they make is superior. It made me curious. pyw or concede, you are no better.

[Anonymous No.6615328]

>>6615321
Jesus was FOTM for 1000 years

[Anonymous No.6615336]

>>6615328
>Flavor of the millennia

[Anonymous No.6615340]

>>6615291
And some portrait of a random bitch or a still life are more interesting?

[Anonymous No.6615341]

>>6615326
Ah yes, how dare someone not-praise anything in this day and age?

Shut the fuck up and kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.6615344]

>>6615321
Looking at how current folks love cartoons and videogames than they love their own family, I truly believe that IP law will be relaxed in the next 50 years enough that it will be possible to legally start a religion around your favorite character

[Anonymous No.6615347]

>>6615341
thanks for conceding, turbo faggot.

[Anonymous No.6615348]

>>6615347
>wasting another post
>didn't post anything at all
>absolutely nothing but memery
What an absolute turbo nigger.

[Anonymous No.6615351]

>>6615348
The onus is on you. Don't even post your work then, post someone else's work.

[Anonymous No.6615352]

>>6615328
>>6615336
Funnily enough, if you paint Jesus stuff today, it'd almost always be considered kitschy.

[Anonymous No.6615355]

What is Kitsch?
>"art, objects, or design considered to be in poor taste because of excessive garishness or sentimentality, but sometimes appreciated in an ironic or knowing way."
>HOW DAREYOU SHIT ON KITSCH I'M LITERALLY SHAKING RIGHT NOW PYW OR CONCEED YOUR NOT BETTER WAAAAH >>6615351
Jesus fucking Christ just take your own life, you waste of oxygen.

[Anonymous No.6615359]

>>6615352
No! this is the height of good taste!

[Anonymous No.6615361]

>>6615355
I am shaking, from laughter.

[Anonymous No.6615368]

>>6615361
Cope

[Anonymous No.6615371]

>>6615368
I win.

[Anonymous No.6615377]

>>6615371
Here's your trophy, schizo.

[Anonymous No.6615379]

>>6615377
thanks, sperg.

[Anonymous No.6615408]

>>6615219
I've noticed this too. It seems the most technically skilled artists are also the most boring ones

[Anonymous No.6615417]

>>6615408
What is the real reason for that? just the sight size methods etc are not transferable to imaginative work? (unless you make maquettes)
Just no interest maybe? a sense that anything not representing reality is kitsch and below them?

[Anonymous No.6615425]

>>6615219
>Don't paint things people traditionally love & >value, such as faces, landscapes or humble fruit.
>Instead paint wacky fantasy stickfreaks figures that only appeal to half a dozen people.

Hmmm, no thanks.
I'd rather make a decent living keeping on doing what I'm doing, all the same.

[Anonymous No.6615458]

>>6615425
>Instead paint wacky fantasy stickfreaks figures that only appeal to half a dozen people.
don't kink shame the man, he probably drew it because it appeals to himself. 40k people also happen to like it enough to follow his work.

[Anonymous No.6615460]

>>6615417
You actually have a point there I've never thought about - someone using sight-size would never be able to draw something imaginative or highly complex like Kim-Jung-Gi. Not because they wouldn't want to or it's kitsch or whatever, but bc they simply are capable! "Kitsch" might actually be a massive cope by the atelier people.

[Anonymous No.6615513]

>>6615219
As an oil painter myself, you have to justify it to your family and wife. That's why I either do studies or family portraits.

>>6615247
The most sane reply

>>6615291
When I got the idea to start oil painting, I thought "I'm gonna be the only one to do anime in oil paint!" The idea went out the window when I found out my wife doesn't like anime.

>>6615300
>Smoking
Get cancer, scum

[Anonymous No.6615522]

>>6615359
Love the nunchucks on the door handle

[Anonymous No.6615526]

>>6615513
>doesn't like anime.
She just got introduced to it wrong, shame. How can you dislike kiki's delivery service?

[Anonymous No.6615531]

>>6615526
By not being a degenerate pedo

[Anonymous No.6615539]

>>6615522

Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Jesus.
Jesus who?
Jesus, I heard you've been practicing with nunchucks lately. I hope you don't "nail" yourself in the process!

[Anonymous No.6615540]

>>6615531
projection anon. please see a therapist.

[Anonymous No.6615561]

>>6615531
What skeletons are hiding in your closet?

[Anonymous No.6615602]

>>6615513
Your point being... digital painters don't have families/wives? Or you only need to justify what you do traditionally?

KJG drew and sold stuff like this in pen while having a family and kids. Artgerm also.

[Anonymous No.6615625]

>>6615602
Everyone's different. Maybe their spouse was okay with that stuff, maybe they didn't care to look.
Digital stuff is easier to keep private from them.

[Anonymous No.6615636]

>>6615321
they did not call it fan art because it wasn't fanart.

[Anonymous No.6615657]

>>6615636
Why isn't it fanart?

[Anonymous No.6615666]

>>6615636
>Neoclassicists start drawing Greek and Roman history and philosphers because... they just did ok!
> Orientalism came from fans... uhh admirers of the Orient
Sure, it wasn't fanart in the sense we call it today, but the principle still stands - a whole bunch of nerds painting the same scenes/characters etc. they were obsessed about.

[Anonymous No.6615786]

>>6615219
>Why aren't there fanarts, OCs, character designs, crazy creatures, mechs, anime art
maybe because not all artists are manchildren?

[Anonymous No.6615799]

>>6615786
>>6615291
This guy was richer, more skilled and influential than all you fart-sniffing teacup-painting faggots will ever hope to be.

[Anonymous No.6615822]

>>6615799
pfft what a man child. This is praiseworthy? Hah! the great old masters wouldn't be caught dead doing the likes of this!

[Anonymous No.6615824]

>>6615822
*This

[Anonymous No.6615827]

>>6615824
this must be a forgery! Rubens... you fool!

[Anonymous No.6615832]

>>6615827
Is that Age of Empires MMO promo?

[Anonymous No.6615839]

>>6615832
yeah, just souless corpo art.

[Anonymous No.6615846]

>>6615219
>Landscapes, portraits, still life BAD
>Tranime coombait GOOD
kys
Grab a brush and paint niggerlicious bullshit yourself, let properly developed adults paint what they want.

[Anonymous No.6615868]

>>6615846
saying you cant make anime landscapes portraits or still life is a false dichotomy.

[Anonymous No.6615905]

>>6615846
>>6615786
What's with this sanctimonious "I am an adult" attitude about painting the most banal shit ever?
Tolkien was a grown ass man when writing his stories about hobbits, elves and dragons and he's one of the most beloved authors ever. Would you have been like "Are you a fucking manchild, grow up lol, write about depression or smth"?

[Anonymous No.6615962]

>>6615219
What is a non borong subject then?

[Anonymous No.6615986]

You can master the craft by doing nothing but pots and pans. It's the artist's job to find the beauty and his choice to make it a reality.
You can't blame people for choosing to represent what they want to represent, but it is in the minute details where we find true value. You are the judge, Anon.

[Anonymous No.6615997]

>>6615962
One option, is something that sparks the feeling of "I wish I saw that with my own eyes!"

[Anonymous No.6616031]

>>6615905
Funny thing is Tolkien's contemporaries told him to stop wasting his time on childish crap like fairy tales and Beowulf, Beowulf for God's sake, and work more on his serious linguistics research.

[Anonymous No.6616305]

>>6615219
>Just as with digital, someone working with oil paints could represent anything their mind
Have you ever painted with oils?

As some others have pointed, there is some original stuff out there, but indeed, not the majority. I've also observed digital artists to be far more creative and originals (I'm trad myself)

The main reason is, digital is so much easier to work with that trad. Color mixing is trivial, fixing proportions is trivial, altering composition is trivial, layers make an artwork much more maleable.

But when you're trad, you don't have that much flexibility, you have to work within some tight limits: there's limits to how much you can erase stuff, and they can be reached very quickly, painting costs money, color mixing requires knowing your pigments.

It's a lot more work to get into this creative zone that you get with digital. Guys like Andrew Tischler now do use digital to speed up the process, precisely because it's so much more malleable. Once the design is OK, projector on a canvas and there goes the trad.

> inb4 nooo digital is so much harder, we don't have easy texture
lol. It's well-known that animation studio, advertisements & cie all were very concerned by the major drawbacks of going to digital that they still hold on to their precious acrylic paintings because it's so much faster to make 10 different color theme variations on the same subject in acrylic than in digital amiright.

some minor things *may* (handling textures in trad is far from trivial, there's a bunch of subtle factors impacting the results) be easier in trad, but overall, digital is way easier

[Anonymous No.6616331]

>>6615219
If you watch olympic fencing, the action happens so fast normies can't see it.

Basically the same thing. High level portrait/still life/figure/landscape artists aren't making paintings for normies, illustrators at videogame companies do that. They're trying to push themselves to the very limit and top other high level painters. It's kinda like 'final destination, no items, fox only'.

Like, go look at trees in any painting you think is exciting, then go look at trees painted by Shishkin (in high res, so you can see the mark making). Shishkin MOGS basically the entire field of illustrators and even most other painters.

Once you can evaluate paintings on this level, the subject isn't the exciting part, the execution is.

[Anonymous No.6616347]

>>6615417
Sight size is definitely part of the reason. Horrible method. It's probably the worst thing to ever happen to the classical art tradition. The insidious lies about its supposed ancient origins made matters so much worse.
https://www.swedishacademyofrealistart.se/comparative-method

[Anonymous No.6616366]

>>6615219
I do oil paintings of my characters and ideas as a part of my LARP.

[Anonymous No.6616478]

>>6615513
>The idea went out the window when I found out my wife doesn't like anime
Pfft, coward. Do you think every artist, writer, scientist and engineer throughout history with their own deeply autistic obsessions had complete understanding from their spouses? For that matter- just going to make some conjecture here- if your wife is a cringe and bluepilled normalfag and likes cringy normalfag things, are you going to make a fuss about that and force her to be a based and redpilled chan culture gigachad like yourself? If you could tolerate your wife being a cringe normalfag, then surely she could tolerate (You) being a cringe weeaboo faggot. It's one thing to be self aware but another thing entirely to think far too much of what other people think about you and be dictated by peer pressure. You do you though, I'm not a marriage counselor.

[Anonymous No.6616516]

>>6615239
You have shit taste

[Anonymous No.6616524]

>>6615540
>>6615561
Typical pedo deflection

[Anonymous No.6616527]

>>6615905
His writings were aimed at children and teenagers

[Anonymous No.6616531]

>>6615905
what's your point? he's one of the most beloved authors by manchildren.

[Anonymous No.6616550]

>>6616524
Typical pedo projection deflection

[Anonymous No.6616555]

>>6615242
That's from Magic the Gathering, which went woke a couple of years ago and has had shit character designs since.
The only thing that actually surprises me from that picture is that the character doesn't have a stupid side-shave haircut.

[Anonymous No.6616565]

>>6615905
grow the fuck up you boring idiot

[Anonymous No.6616568]

>>6615531
>says anime is for pedos
eat a bullet, Dr Pizza

[Anonymous No.6616572]

>>6615905
Because those faggots think everybody else must be as miserable as they are, addicted to talk only about politics.

[Anonymous No.6616580]

>>6616572
Because the taste and interests of some people didnt stop developing past 15

[Anonymous No.6616586]

>>6616580
As if current-day politics was even an interest or taste.

[Anonymous No.6616601]

>>6616586
you were the first to mention politics in the thread

[Anonymous No.6616614]

>>6615219
Because that's what they're getting paid for, digital has the advantage of not costing you a ton of money on oil paint.

[Anonymous No.6616784]

>>6615237
Yes, we should all aspire to be uninspired Duchamp clones and paint canvases in entirely one color

[Anonymous No.6616790]

>>6616601
What are those "adult interests" then, gigabrain? Shit, you people sound like those stupid zoomers who think life ends at 30.

[Anonymous No.6616823]

>>6616790
pots and trees man, pots and trees.
But seriously, I'd like to see the "approved" non-man-child art. Is it Ilya Repin? I love him but I also love Frazzetta.

[Anonymous No.6616878]

>>6616823
>Is it Ilya Repin? I love him but I also love Frazzetta.
most people who like frazetta also like repin for some reason. it's such a meme combination.

[Anonymous No.6616891]

>>6615352
Well, depends if your frame of reference is narrow or not.

[Anonymous No.6616896]

>>6616891

[Anonymous No.6616950]

>>6616878
such a meme combination? that sounds like a retarded thing to say.
>people who like great artists also like other great artists, so typical!

[Anonymous No.6616967]

>>6616331
/End of thread.

[Anonymous No.6617019]

>>6616950
it's not retarded. repin is an obscure name from an obscure school except for select art-learning communities or 4chan western civilization trad larp dump. people who like it intersects with frazetta fans in an unnatural way. he's the go-to traditional painter name-drop for people who don't really care for traditional that much.

[Anonymous No.6617051]

>>6617019
Frazetta is the go-to non obscure fantasy artist, who was posted in this thread, hence mentioning him, and Repin is the go to "serious trad artist" for a community like /ic/, so anyone reading it gets the point of the post.
I can't see how it's unnatural, maybe for modern /ic/?
When everyone wanted to be a concept artist this was a totally natural combo. Frazetta being one who inspires you as a teen, and Repin being one to inspire as you seek masters to study.

[Anonymous No.6617117]

>>6616531
Yet he was more successful than you ever will be

[Anonymous No.6617127]

>>6616305
I get where you're coming from but the level of complexity in painting a griffin in oils for example is more or less the same as for painting a regular lion/eagle. Painting an imaginary lunar base has the same complexities as painting an urban landscape.
You're still putting in those hours so why not go for something more whimsical/unusual.

[Anonymous No.6617162]

>>6616331
>If you watch olympic fencing, the action happens so fast normies can't see it.
interesting. Got any examples?

[Anonymous No.6617164]

>>6615531
how is kikis delivery service, instead of any of the other anime you could make that accusation towrads, something that you consider pedobait?

[Anonymous No.6617304]

>>6617127
trad painting instruction doesn't emphasize imagination drawing, so people tend to be much less apt in this regard, simply because they haven't (been) trained, and have little incentive to train themselves, as they can get by selling courses and portraits.

hence they forged a strong habit of working mostly from references. and once it's ingrained and bringing you cash, it's hard to change.

but really, the psychological impact of having to deal with real, tangible material is the most important aspect (IMO), even for a griffin or a lunar base. you have to deal with drying time, with transferring drawings from low quality paper to final surface, to not have colors available easily at the first stage to kick your brain and so forth, storage, smell, price.

if you don't do trad much, I'd encourage you to give it a serious try, just buy a few tubes of gouache, paper, some synthetic brushes. try to make a griffin.

even drawing as straight line without an edge/stabilizer is a skill to slowly develop

(but I agree with you, it's really a shame they don't)

[Anonymous No.6617331]

>>6615219
i couldnt think of a better way to put that talent to use

[Anonymous No.6617335]

>>6617331
I don't doubt it, but please share specifics.

[Anonymous No.6617342]

>>6617335
anime thighs cum masturbarme

[Anonymous No.6617347]

>>6617304
>trad painting instruction doesn't emphasize imagination drawing, so people tend to be much less apt in this regard, simply because they haven't (been) trained, and have little incentive to train themselves, as they can get by selling courses and portraits.
>Implying that people have to be trained to draw/paint in any medium

[Anonymous No.6617477]

>>6617347
Care to be more explicit?

[Anonymous No.6617490]

>>6617304
I actually started out in traditional and my dream was to do oil paintings for MTG but furries were more than willing to give me their money so I kinda got stuck in that niche. With AI I don't even know how much the furry gig is gonna last so I'm always thinking about going back to trad.

But going back to trad after so much digital I'd really try to implement some digital tools, unlike before - tools like masking, textured brushes, careful layering. I've drawn so much cool shit during the last few years, from battle scenes, comic book characters, to bank heists to colorful book covers that going back to pots and pans just to fit in seems disheartening. Thus the thread, I guess.

[Anonymous No.6617531]

>>6615666
> Orientalism came from fans... uhh admirers of the Orient
>hurrr durrrr you paint rocks? you are a fan of rocks, so that’s fanart
actual retard

[Anonymous No.6617534]

>>6617531
The new testament is fanfiction

[Anonymous No.6617536]

>>6617534
refer to >>6617531

[Anonymous No.6617587]

>>6617531
Most retarded strawman I’ve ever heard.

Say what you want, that shit is more interesting than 90% of today’s figurative art.

[Anonymous No.6617593]

>>6617490
Easy money has a cost.

If I were you, I'd keep practicing pots and pans, self-portraits, just to give you mileage (those can be difficult exercises), and on the side, start leveraging your digital skills, see for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy6w_pJxTrw

You may also want to try developing an affinity with a variety of mediums.

[Anonymous No.6617597]

>>6617587
UOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.6617608]

>>6617593
I’ve actually done half of the Watts painting course and painted some MTG characters in oils back in the day. Starting a following from zero on a new account is what I find most challenging.

[Anonymous No.6617610]

>>6617597
Wow

[Anonymous No.6617618]

>>6615905
The reason why Tolkien is beloved by many was because he could create something new while still touching on things that are universal. That is, despite the escapist bullshit elements, Lord of the Rings is ultimately a good story with interesting characters.
Almost none of that could be easily captured through fanart, being a logocentric form of expression, and even if it was, it'd miss the creating something new / novelty part of the equation. The most artists can do is allude to the work Tolkien had already done, and as such create at best 3rd order simulacra.

>>6616331
This is highly debatable. Even the critical community agrees that Goya's Black Paintings are some of his best work, but they certainly aren't that merely on the mechanical level. Even Shiskin's work would be rather mundane if it wasn't for his skill in composition, treatment of light, and the ability to create specific mood and atmosphere. The brushwork is merely delectable icing on the metaphorical cake.

>>6617019
>repin is an obscure name from an obscure school
Bruh, have you ever been to Eastern Europe. Or Northern Europe. Or France. In fact, have you ever been to Europe. UK doesn't count because Anglos aren't people.

[Max Schreck No.6617619]

>>6617618

[Anonymous No.6617629]

>>6617587
what strawman, retard? the faggot literally compared orientalism to fanart because the painters are fans of the fucking subject

[Anonymous No.6617639]

>>6617608
You tried connecting with local artists? Like, life-drawing classes

[Anonymous No.6617643]

>>6617639
Most of them aren’t figurative artists.

[Anonymous No.6617652]

>>6617629
And you compared Orientalism to painting rocks. That’s a strawman.

[Anonymous No.6617655]

>>6617652
that’s not what a strawman is, you utter fucking mongoloid

[Anonymous No.6617871]

>>6616565
Tell us what your interests are if you're so much more interesting.

[Anonymous No.6618240]

>>6615666
yeah, and a multi-figure battle formation MTG illustration is just like a renaissance church ceiling painting.
if a person goes to mexico today and then paints that place's way of life, it's obvious that's not fan art.
things are more than the one or two words making up a title used to describe them, and things have more than one necessary criterion for their essence, especially something as complex as art.

[Anonymous No.6618448]

>>6615219
Because you charge $250 for digital commissions.
No one is going to pay you several times that for working in a medium that requires more time and skill because it doesn't have an undo button for you to hit 20 times per minute.

[Anonymous No.6618458]

>>6618448
>No on is going to pay several times that
DC pays about 1k for a cover, which the artist OP posted does in oil.

[Anonymous No.6618486]

>>6618458
1k is fucking nothing for oil lmao

[Anonymous No.6618494]

>>6618458
Oil paintings sold in the local mall, not even in a gallery but a stand, go for more than 1000 euros here.
$1000 is a shit pay for a cover, that’s like 2-3 page illustrations for a literallywho indie publisher

[Anonymous No.6618851]

>>6618486
You're a bit dense. He keeps the painting and can sell it for 50k to comic nerds.

[Anonymous No.6618853]

>>6618486
>>6618494
He keeps the painting and can sell it for 10k to comic nerds.

[Anonymous No.6618856]

>>6618494
am curious what goes for 1000 at a mall, and how long it takes to sell? how reliable is this market?

[Anonymous No.6618896]

>>6618853
That kikery is not justification for lowballing, he could just paint something that isn’t retarded and sell the painting, paintings of batman aren’t going to do much to raise your value in fine art. I’m not even a tradfag, and that’s a shit rate for a cover.

>>6618856
I’ve seen what I assume are original paintings as well as master copies of known national paintings, generally recognisable places and events, but also random landscapes. Can’t tell you how long it takes, but once you’re done, it’s the seller’s problem, and they clearly sell paintings if they can afford to sit at the mall all day, every day.

[Anonymous No.6620140]

>>6618896
>but once you’re done, it’s the seller’s problem, and they clearly sell paintings if they can afford to sit at the mall all day, every day.
"nice painting. how bout i sell it for you and get 50% while i sit around this mall oggling the babes and doing nothing?

[Anonymous No.6620169]

yeah well if there are painters who do narrative paintings of mythology or history it will just be "figure painting" for most people and the message gets lost and not appreciated. and there isn't a community of people who share in the study of what is involved in making them.
with academic artists term "figurative art" that they adopted is holding them back because this phrase ends up defining the kind of work that they do even if they want to do something more and they don't even realize it. their work just becomes about the figure. once you start to define yourself as something else like "narrative painter" or "history painter" then it transforms your view on art and you then try to develop other skills other than just painting the figure. we can see in another way how the name "figurative" affected their art in that very few of them do justifiable backgrounds.
of course there are many artists who do more than figures, still lives, or the mate of the artist "james" who sat for him as portrait practice, but many of them are doing domestic scenes, politics, some personal stuff that only the artist cares about, wildlife art, american westerns, cultural paintings like people in their ethnic garbs, icon paintings. however if someone isn't the target viewer then one will just ignore the paintings or again see the paintings as lacking in anything interesting. if anything traditional is too diverse into niche camps that there isn't anything large enough that painters collectively add on to. there is no real "traditional art scene"

[Anonymous No.6620351]

>>6618458
>>6618486
>>6618494
You'd be surprised, but once you know what you're doing, you can do an oil painting in around 2x the time it takes you to a digital one. So spending twice the time but getting 4x the money is a pretty good decision.

[Anonymous No.6620356]

>>6615239
ugly painting, ugly subject

[Anonymous No.6620381]

>>6620351
nobody buys paintings in my country, and I doubt people will buy expensive oil paintings with overseas shipping, too risky.

[Anonymous No.6620387]

>>6620351
>4x the money
anon, $200-$300 is the rate for literal photobashed/daz3d covers for literallywhos
not even painted over or anything, shit looks like a bad porn game banner
this is super cheap for trad, the only people this is profitable for are the guys they keep rehiring every week because it’s a stable income, albeit with a lower hourly rate

[Anonymous No.6620397]

>>6615223
FPBP

[Anonymous No.6620523]

Gaming rigs make better porn retards

[Anonymous No.6620526]

>>6620523
what? that op pic looks better than 100% of AI pics. Fact.

[Anonymous No.6620623]

>>6620387
Anon, how much do you think they pay you for doing an MTG card? It's something like $1000-1500. And we're talking WotC here, and they're considered to pay well.

https://gzipwtf.com/how-much-does-mtg-pay-for-art/

[Anonymous No.6620652]

>>6620523
Of course, didn't you see the stupid amount of SFW animations out there? You can't make that shit on an old computer.

[Anonymous No.6620661]

>>6620623
The illustrator said that WotC paid around 1k for this picture, which took about 9 work days.
People that complaint about random twitter artist#8658 being too expensive because he charges 70$ for a picture usually never commission anything anyway.

[Anonymous No.6620668]

>>6620623
wotc fucking never paid well, they only pay well for super rare cards, and those are much better paid
wotc was always for nerds who really wanted to work on a specific franchise they were into and people who couldn’t get into applibot

https://www.derangeddoctordesign.com/prices.html
https://www.jcalebdesign.com/
https://joybookdesign.com/price/
here are some premades, just for perspective
https://goonwrite.com/order.htm
https://thebookcoverdesigner.com/product-category/premade-book-covers/
https://www.selfpubbookcovers.com/

[Anonymous No.6620719]

>>6620668
Huh... thanks for those links anon, really eye-opening. What's that you said about applibot though? Do they even hire ppl outside Japan?

[Anonymous No.6620739]

>>6620719
they used to, it was the company to work for back when this place was still all about going pro, no clue about now

[Anonymous No.6621428]

>>6615417
I don't think sight-size is as prevalent as you guys make it out to be. Grand Central Atelier, the pinnacle of academic study today (beats Florence in prestige, no question about it) does not do sight-size at all, they do comparative. The Repin academy also does comparative-constructive, and still their alumni work is just as lacking in creativity as the sight-size schools.

[Anonymous No.6621431]

>>6621428
There's a bunch of "famous" Atelier in Europe who do (Angel academy comes to mind, Florence)

[Anonymous No.6621447]

>>6621431
I know that, all I'm saying is, the best school in the west, GCA, and the best school in the east, Repin Academy, don't do sight-size but some variation of the comparative method, which in theory would allow them to draw from imagination without the constraints of sight-size, yet their students' work is just as lacking in creativity and imagination as the sight-size gang.

[Anonymous No.6621460]

>>6621428
>>6621447
colloquially sight size means comparative because constructofags just use it as an umbrella term for “not construction” and it sounds jargony and cool

[Anonymous No.6621472]

>>6615219
A piece like this can go very wrong if you don't know what you're doing.

[Anonymous No.6621518]

>>6615219
You are juvenile and have no taste. That is why reality bores you and you want to escape to these childish fantasy worlds.
You don't realize the fantasy worlds are just simplified reality with different superficial skins.

[Anonymous No.6621523]

Also this guy alone was more imaginative than all of your anime worshiping man children.

[Anonymous No.6621530]

>>6621523
And yet, here he is using isoterism and religion.

[Anonymous No.6621534]

>>6621428
>>6621431
neither sight size nor (extreme) comparative measuring are at fault. they're symptoms.

ateliers try to be neutral and focus purely on what they claim to be objective skill without giving any attention to things like specialized art theory or themes. doing so will alienate students who are coming from very different backgrounds and with widely different goals. so they settle for something mild and common such as pure conceptualized realism. they operate under the notion that if you can paint something as close to objective visible reality, you can branch out and do what you want with ease. first of all, that doesn't happen. they strengthen the habit of painting sale academic studies through practicing it. secondly, painting closer to objective reality does not necessarily mean greater skill which is also part of their teaching.

[Anonymous No.6621537]

>>6621534
stale academic studies*
also their models are 19th century which are already less creative than older masters.

[Anonymous No.6621538]

>>6621530
>isoterism
???

[Anonymous No.6621552]

>>6621518
>>6621523
You're an elitist asshole too high on his own farts. Grown-ass humans have been using their imagination to create fantasy worlds, paint and write about them since time immemorial. Human imagination has more soul and character in it than your pots and pans ever ill.

Also Dali is just as Kitsch as Nier Automata.

[Anonymous No.6621757]

>>6621534
well, I mean at some point, the students are adults, and should be expected to behave as such.

there's this strong infantilization vibe permeating society: let's delegate our responsibilities, because we're lazy buns. then get butthurt because obviously someone was glad to exploit the situation to their advantages.

solution? well let's find someone else, but not us right! -_-

[Anonymous No.6621769]

>>6621538
Oh look at this guy, LOOK at him, he's at the brink of calling me pablo or a filthy ESL because of one typo.

esotericism.

[Anonymous No.6622037]

>>6621769
nah man, I googled it and saw it was a molecule thing, and thought it might be some (esoteric :p) way of describing surreal art... esotericism did not come to mind. I'm the filthy ESL...

[Anonymous No.6622092]

>>6621518
> escapism is le bad
Why are you even on an image board designed to take a break from reality?

[Anonymous No.6622642]

>>6615219
What a pitiful way of looking at the world.

[Anonymous No.6622731]

>>6621757
explain what behaving like an adult means in this context. i don't understand where you're coming from.

[Anonymous No.6624747]

>>6621538
isolationist terrorism
it’s like an intel uprising but for countries

[Anonymous No.6624836]

>>6620623
They pay way less than Applibot, Asmodee, Riot and pre-gettingsuedbyeveryone Blizzard

[Anonymous No.6624848]

>>6622731
not complaining about the school you attend to being unsatisfactory, and instead taking actions to make it less of a problem.

my point was that, the issue arises not just for art schools, but is a global phenomenon. people tend to refuse to take responsibilities, then complain because they're getting butt-slapped as a result.

you (not (You) you, impersonal you) choose a school, you find out it's not perfect, then find ways to deal with the situation yourself, instead of blaming the world

[Anonymous No.6624861]

>>6624836
wait, what happened with blizzard?

[Anonymous No.6624944]

>>6624848
by the time that a student or a follower of a methodology finds out that it won't make them do art as great or imaginative as they thought it would, it's too late a lot of times. they're already ingrained the habits. you can't retrain proko. a lot of times they may not even suspect anything is wrong because they have also instilled the ideals of whatever teaching.
it's not really a matter of blaming the world or taking responsibility. rather a matter of the nearly inescapable tendency that the things that shape us first shape humans most firmly, especially if it's something takes as much investment as learning art.

[Anonymous No.6625097]

>>6615219
>They could literally paint anything but they unironically choose to invest hours and hours to paint some pots and pans.
>They could literally paint anything
You are wrong OP, it takes one set of skills to be a good figurative painter and another to put together wild designs of alternate realities and fantastic creatures.
Sure you those two have the same base of light, form, perspective, color, anatomy etc., but illustrator won't be able to produce as quickly as many varied designs with as much thought put into them, just like designer won't be able to reach as high quality and speed with depicting subjects and composing them into cohesive and moving.

On that note, have you noticed how many amazing designers are basic bitch at putting their designs into a scenario.
Why? Because that's not where most of their focus and expertise lays.

TL;DR: OP underestimates work that goes into design. Why spend extra hours designing that you could use working on something you're good at. Time is money.

[Anonymous No.6625384]

>>6624944
That's precisely my point: your views are rather pessimist, while mines are optimistic. People should be encouraged to change, instead of being encouraged to submit to their own mediocrity.

That crab bucket mentality is a real thing in society: if you try to break free from the herd, people take it as a personal insult ("how dare you not do as I do") and will peer-pressure you to stop, more or less softly. If you meet success, some will hate you even more for showing them (not necessarily voluntarily) that they were wrong.

Key to success is and has always been hard work. If you start by thinking it's impossible, for sure you'll never get better.

Anyway, got work todo

[Anonymous No.6625457]

>>6625097
A very interesting answer.

[Anonymous No.6625595]

>>6620356
nigger you are ugly in real life. in theory, you should like it.

[Anonymous No.6625931]

>>6625384
how is observing that people remain mediocre and addressing some of the reasons pessimist or optimist? you can't affect positive change unless the root causes are made known. none of this has to do with taking responsibility or being positive. a person can be positive or negative about their own self. observing trends is impersonal and separate.
expressing concern that the popular practices today should be more closely evaluated is the opposite of advising someone to simply follow the herd. if you can read between the lines, it's being proactive to not fall into traps where they have to spend extra effort and years to try to correct their training.
no one is saying an artist shouldn't work hard. yet it's evident that the training they choose has an effect on their mature work. so they have to be smart from the very beginning.

[Anonymous No.6626408]

>>6625931
I think we're stuck in a loop.

So I guess we agree on the fact that training can influence people, that's for sure. And that most people tend not to be able to break free from it.

My point is then two folds: 1 it's their responsibility to free themselves 2) spending time and energy blaming a poor education setting is a waste of time and energy. This would be better redirected to serve 1)

The argument is based on establishing a parallel with a trend in society: people tend to complain a lot about global factors, upon which they can't act, instead of acting on local factors, where they can act if they set their mind to.

[Anonymous No.6629450]

>>6615219
>trad art is just still lives and portrai-
https://hyperallergic.com/

[Anonymous No.6629488]

>>6629450
That's more like "fine art" than traditional painting.

[Anonymous No.6629694]

>>6615359
Wtf hes stealing another mans score

[Anonymous No.6630869]

>>6615359
This image unironically goes hard.

[Anonymous No.6631592]

>>6626408
i give my thoughts as an answer to the thread question and how a budding artist can develop in a way that is contrary to op's perception of traditional painters, and others think it's futile encouragement of blaming or against progression. it's not a loop, but rather the things i said being misrepresented.
if there is no one, either an observer or someone who has gone through poor education personally, would give alternate points of view outside the ateliers', then there will be more who fall into trap of only doing still lives or otherwise unimaginative works.
another problem is it takes a certain level of skill or exposure to good art before an artist develops enough taste to realize that the training that they wholly believed in was inadequate and leads to their mediocrity. even the technicality of ateliers is mediocre parlor trick, but beginners cannot evaluate skill properly.