/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6568792]

"There are no two words more harmful in the english language than 'good job'"

Would you agree with him, /ic/?

[Anonymous No.6568794]

Just look at all the discord hugboxes of NGMIs who tell each other "good job" and ban all criticism as bigoted.

[Anonymous No.6568795]

>>6568794
name one

[Anonymous No.6568796]

>>6568792
It's a bit edgy.

The kind of person who is destined to become great is also the kind of person is self motivated and needs neither positive or negative reinforcement to guide them.
You can tell them they suck and maybe they'll be upset and not want to be told they suck again by practicing really hard, but they're probably already all telling themselves they suck anyway. And if they're not telling themselves that they suck and they actually believe the comforting words of people telling them they're great, then they're just a ngmi anyway and wouldn't take the negative feedback well either

[Anonymous No.6568797]

how about "nice try"

[Anonymous No.6568798]

>>6568792
Fletcher was a fucking schizo taking out his issues on his students.
Putting yourself down constantly will make you hate whatever you're doing, you WILL burn out.
You should be exigent and always strive to do better, but also acknowledge when you progress and not go too hard on yourself.

[Anonymous No.6568801]

>>6568795
Just go to the discord server browser and type art. Or join any known artist discord. The "feedback" channel is all emoji reactions and "good job, love the colors! <3" and most if not all of them as channel topic have shit like "only give positive feedback unless they specifically ask for criticism. Be nice to each other". Can't tell someone that their proportions suck and to go do some studies without a mod warning.

[Anonymous No.6568804]

>>6568796
cont
However a personal anecdote of mine,
I had a classmate in a music course who couldn't play an instrument to save his life, he totally sucked. But the teachers kept telling him how great he is and how he's gonna play in a famous orchestra one day.
He believed it and never bothered to practice.
He's been working in a grocery store for 10 years now and probably will be for the rest of his life.
Had that teacher told him he sucked, maybe he would have broken down and cried and quit music, but there's also the possibility that he would have actually improved and maybe there was potential there, but it was never realised.

[Anonymous No.6568809]

I draw for fun not to "be the best", that's subjective at a certain point, plus all the technical skill in the world won't save your image from being unmemorable.

[Anonymous No.6568813]

>>6568804
There's a middle ground, like for that shitty music kid, they shouldn't have told him he was great, but also not told him he sucked, be harsh but hype their potential, give a path to follow, and commend progress, without giving free pats on the back.

[Anonymous No.6568814]

>>6568809
Drawing to be the best and drawing for fun are not mutually exclusive, you're making up excuses

[Anonymous No.6568820]

>>6568814
It stops being fun when my wrists hurt. To be the best you have to risk carpal tunnel.

[Anonymous No.6568852]

definitely not. i do well when i get both positive and negative feedback, and have fun drawing a lot more engagingly from imagination when i get a lot of positive reviews,
but while extremes like shown in the film might seem badass on the surface, a real-life badass would excel without breaking
through a daily moderately challenging climb, without having to plug their motivational switch into emotions of operatic drama every time they want to sketch a still life with fruit,
i feel like they’d proceed without the need for any fanfare, by daily pacing themselves for the long game
so they don’t burn out like other anons’ve said.

the film is basically a kid experiencing hollywood levels of abuse, feels like.
makes for a really engaging watch because blockbusters are made by making the viewers experience more and MORE abuse, blood, violence and whatever extremes. it’s great to visit, but i’d never want to live that way, or make anyone else, either.
iconic film though, worth a watch.

[Anonymous No.6568870]

>>6568792
its not the atually words its what doesnt follow it, constructive criticism

[Anonymous No.6568879]

>>6568801
You know art is a hobby right? Despite what people say about clout and money, we all know it’s a hobby primarily and there’s no realistic path to monetary/fame success. So that said, why are you surprised when no one wants your uninvited retard critique on something done for enjoyment? This is even further ridiculous when you consider that so much of art stylistically is subjective, even to the point of how one stylizes the human figure, that art is not something you can really criticize like you can hard science or mathematics. So who cares man? Why don’t you just shut the fuck up and focus on your own drawings smart guy? Maybe you’ll learn to have some fun instead of needing some sense of authority over others via shitting on people trying to enjoy themselves.

[Anonymous No.6568880]

>>6568879
Someone's feelings got hurt on twitter over their MLP fanart

[Anonymous No.6568881]

>>6568792
OP this is so true. Kim Jung Gi actually studied under Fletcher and he would have been ngmi otherwise. Words to live by

[Anonymous No.6568882]

>>6568792
No.
Freaky perfectionists who never allow themselves to feel good are just being miserable for the sake of it. Sometimes praise can feel hollow or formal, but learning how to discern a simple compliment between two-faced, disingenuine praise is an important skill to learn that most people can do innately.

[Anonymous No.6568886]

>>6568792
If this were true then all of the known crabs of ic wouldn't be so fucking beg.

[Anonymous No.6568892]

>>6568886
FACTS
There's nothing wrong with telling someone they're on the right track when they're actually on the right track.

[Anonymous No.6568894]

>>6568880
Cringe. Maybe use a more relevant insult next time, boomer

[Anonymous No.6568900]

>>6568892
Can't hurt to give some guidance or point out their shortcomings so they can focus on them though. It can be pretty hard to notice yourself, so a lot of the time it feels like you are blindly walking a path you aren't too sure of. "Very nice" gives 0 guidance.

[Anonymous No.6568912]

>>6568900
It’s important to know both. If you don’t know what you’re doing wrong you won’t know what to fix down the line and if you don’t know what is right when you fix what’s wrong you won’t know where to go and be at crossroads.

[Anonymous No.6568919]

>>6568879
We all know bad art when we see it. I don't know what makes Cy Twombly's art worth millions. I didn't go to an expensive liberal arts college where they teach you about these things. But when it comes to realistic art or even cartoons I can easily differentiate between expert work and beginner work. I agree that sperging out on discord and telling someone to practice more is not very nice.

[Anonymous No.6568922]

>>6568900
i guarantee that if you had Fletcher for a teacher you would have either
-quit art because your mentor only tells you that you are the lowest form of sentient life on the planet at every occasion
- developped a deadly form of carpal tunnel trying to please a dude who gets off on humiliating you
-or ( and it's very unlikely) somehow improve yourself while your teacher throw Cintiq at your head because you drew a single wobbly line, and even then you would have improved in spite of this method of teaching and not thanks to it.

to be a teacher is to guide your student and guiding is both telling when something is wrong and when something is right, it's also to do it with respect and tact to your students, that's why not every good artist aren't good teachers but a good teacher can make someone a good artist

[Anonymous No.6568929]

>>6568792
It's a stupid mentality, because it takes a method and style of critique and assumes it applies to everyone and that it will always work. It's not total critical harass or hugboxing, there's nuance and different levels of that, but it seems people don't care about that fact.
When you make criticism, something that usually will be taken negatively, an even more unpleasant experience, which is usually what people who believe this sort of thing do, it creates nothing but negativity in the artists mind and associates critique with something negative.
Occasional praise is fine, it can be a good way to notify someone they are going in the right direction. The absolute worst thing you can do to an artist, or anything for that matter, is give no direction at all. If someone can take it though, by all means, go for it, but you're trying to help Ideally not break them down.

[Anonymous No.6568934]

>>6568792
No, praise is sometimes helpful for students. It should be justified, not administer so much that it feels insincere, and from a teacher who's trusted. "No corrections," is a good mark, take that W. A "good job," or specific praise for how a student handled an issue in the drawing can also lend psychological strength to work through difficult periods, bust plateaus, and reach the next level in their work.

[Anonymous No.6569046]

>>6568792
it's a balance. Get confirmation that your work is good, but don't get complacent.
always ask yourself "can this be better?"
however, negative reinforcement either makes or breaks people.
those who cannot take it dont have the will power to make it.

[Anonymous No.6569092]

>>6568792
Whiplash was a satire and I'm tired of pretending it wasn't. Many of the scenes were so absurd it was comical. In a good way.

[Anonymous No.6569100]

>>6568792
I personally enjoy being told I’m trash and should quit by anonymous ESLs than pretty much anything else when it comes to motivation.

Nothing makes me want to light a painting on fire faster than vague positive reinforcement.

But I might be retarded or sommink idk

[Anonymous No.6569192]

>>6569092
not so much satire, but slightly more hyperbolic than real life.

[Anonymous No.6569193]

>>6569100
hate often comes from a place of jealousy.
but you are retarded

[Anonymous No.6569218]

>>6568814
Good point. I strive to for my work to be as good as it can possibly get and chasing that ambition is fulfilling to me on a personal level. Looking back on how far I've come, seeing the progress in real time, month after month, year after year is part of what made me fall in love with painting and drawing in the first place.
To realise that I can overcome my own self doubt and percieved limitations. It's almost a form of therapy to me.
Although I am a perfectionist and set high standards for myself I also enjoy geeking out on funny sketches and whatnot from time to time.
At the end of the day we're all different and that's ok..