Art supplies thread: OP where are you edition.

[Anonymous No.6564278]

Is oil pastel a durable medium like oil paint?
Also is picrel good for starter? It branded as artist grade and a lot of pros use it together with other expensive brands.

[Anonymous No.6564947]

oil pastels are very different from oil paint despite having "oil" in their name, so it's not good to compare them in durability.
oil pastels don't dry. so they can be smudged but they won't crack or wrinkle. since cracking is due to disproportionate movement of support and hard layers, and wrinkling is due mostly to high medium portion which shrinks as it polymerizes and small amount of evaporation of volatile components.
they might collect dust and are going to be more difficult to clean.

[Anonymous No.6566140]

>>6564947
Thank you
Is there any other way to protect oil pastel artworks beside framing? Like fixative.

[Anonymous No.6566177]

>>6566140
Yes. Literally fixative actually. There's spray options and liquid, same as most materials. Any preference?

[Anonymous No.6566262]

just started, rate my setup

[Anonymous No.6566267]

>>6566262
This faggot erases, ngmi

[Anonymous No.6566307]

Sorta related. How do you use a sketch book? Do you do construction and plan every page out or do you just draw as a meditative thing even if the shapes don't make sense? Do you do a bit of both?

[Anonymous No.6566482]

>>6566307
sketchbooks are a scam. loose sheets kept in a folder of some sort. draw on a board.
much cheaper, can have different paper sizes. won't need to rip off pages from a sketchbook.
no worry about if you're using the sketchbook the correct way. i fill up pages of practice without worrying about using up my sketchbook.
line exercises on less expensive paper. plannings for more finished drawing or paintings, design studies, complete drawings on good paper all in the same folder. keep the ones you're working on or want to look at, throw away or store the rest somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.6566492]

>>6566177
Kuelox fixative
>>6566482
You can use fixative on separated paper too.
Still a sketch have it's pros. Convenient, neat, more organized and handmade sketchbooks are another kind of art, think of it as support fellow artists.

[Anonymous No.6566497]

>>6566482
Can't argue with it, it's the just-drawpilled answer. Thanks anon.
I guess proper sketchbooks would be less of a pain to take with you and more discrete if you draw at work

[Anonymous No.6566615]

Recommend me a really waxy painterly pencil
I have Prisma but they don't feel as waxy as I want
>>6566482
I recently realized that sketchbooks are such a chore
when I started using loose paper I can sort my drawings better
no more flipping back and forth to reference my studies
I can utilize the lightbox
easier to store
easier to scan
and lots of sketchbook prices depend on whether its hardcover or not etc
now its a novelty for when I draw on the go

[Anonymous No.6566750]

>>6566615
yeah, referencing on loose sheets is the best. it works especially well in my case because many of my drawings are studies for larger compositions. i can have multiple sheets out, and i can cut out the appropriate size of the larger sheet from the full size pads.
something about the size being custom-cut for whatever i'm making also feels more professional.
the thing i didn't like about sketchbooks was they were either spiral or ones that open like a book. i had to be careful about the other open side of the spiral sketchbook, and the ones with spine took double the space when open.

[Anonymous No.6567287]

>>6566262
Mechanical pencil lead is cheap. Invest in some nicer stuff and save yourself the fucking headache of having to refill your lead every five seconds because it keeps snapping. I speak from experience. I like Pentel's lead a lot.

>>6566482
>>6566615
I'm slowly coming to this same conclusion as well. I have this super tiny blank paper book that isn't technically a sketchbook and I just carry that around in case I get an idea on the go or just want to draw on the plane but otherwise yeah sketchbooks aren't all that great. This is probably just a me problem but they give me the worst drawing anxiety too for some reason.

[Anonymous No.6567356]

Canvas pads are pretty expensive for only 10 sheets
Does cardstock work well for oil paint sketching?
I'm not gonna apply a lot of oil on it, just for outside quick sketch

[Anonymous No.6567360]

>>6566482
what loose sheets? printer paper?

[Anonymous No.6567362]

Does anyone have any recommendations for fountain pens? I really want to take the inkpill but have no idea on which nibs or pens to even begin with.

[Anonymous No.6567376]

>>6566307
I use them as work-spaces to figure out ideas. Most individual drawings in my book have no inherent value, other than as part of the process. I'll rip out pages or remove them to transfer onto other surfaces.

[Anonymous No.6567442]

>>6567362
>recommendations for fountain pens?
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//ppg/_-_Pen_%26_Pencil_General#Recommendations

[Anonymous No.6567537]

What's a good toned-paper sketchbook for Copic markers?

[Anonymous No.6567691]

What kind of scanner you have? Do most anons use the combo scanner that comes with a printer or do you have a separate scanner that is like USB powered

[Anonymous No.6567807]

>>6567691
i use and old 15 year old hp scanner/printer combo
do you need printing feature?
for me i print digital sketches or print fixed trad sketches
then draw on top of printed drawing on lightbox

if you dont have printer or lightbox you can use the monitor/screen tablet to trace your digital sketches

>>6567287
>keeps snapping
for me .7 2B led almost never snaps
hate sharpening it hurts my hand
know a good sharpner?

[Anonymous No.6567811]

>>6567807
>do you need printing feature?
No, I actually only want a scanner. Printers end up being dustcatchers for me

[Anonymous No.6567918]

>>6567811
it depends on your needs
size of your art
tho any scanner would do decent job
if you do colored work look for a scanner with 24bit range some offer 48bit imo thats overkill

[Anonymous No.6567923]

>>6567918
My needs are kinda off topic to the board, I want something to store paycheques and bills without taking up physical space. I mainly do digital art. I don't believe I'll ever use a bigger page size than standard printer paper for physical art

[Anonymous No.6567928]

>>6567807
>Top sharpness in 3 seconds
>No waste
>No lead breaks
>Never dulls
>Likely older than you
I used to whittle my pencils with a knife but drawing with the side is a fucking meme.

[Anonymous No.6568063]

>>6567360
any one thing and any combination. you're actually less limited with what kind of paper than with sketchbooks since there are papers that are not even made into sketchbooks. it's more work but buying large sheets and cutting them is more cost efficient.

[Anonymous No.6568901]

>>6566262
Very few FP inks are archival. Most don't like to announce it and if they do they are most likely lying. Just so you know.

[Anonymous No.6568910]

>>6567360
If you're only drawing with pencils and fineliners, you don't need more than printer paper. Acid free printer paper is archival.

>>6567287
Most of the sketchbook culture is inspired by either art hoes' scrapbooks (but they are just that, scrapbooks) or this almost pathological need to draw that guys like Crumb or KJG were possessed by, but it's really just them.

In the end, I'll say this: don't draw all day, but do try to draw every day.

Personally, I'm just burned out of anything that's smaller than A4. To me, A4 is the ideal size for drawing.

[Anonymous No.6568913]

>>6567362
Don't. Inks are terrible, and almost always non archival, non waterproof, etc. Fountain pens are like sports cars, high maintenance and not really worth it if you're just going to get groceries and drop your kids at school.
If you want line values get dip pens. Inks are much better, and dip pens are made to be used and abused, so you'll find them for cheap pretty much anywhere.
However if you want a pen that gives good ink, and that's helpful for drawing, I'd reccomend an isograph. Get a 0.3, should be enough to give you an idea. If you don't like it, clean it and resell it.

[Anonymous No.6569151]

>>6568901
I (usually) don't draw with the pen, just keep it there so all my writing utensils are in the same place.

[Anonymous No.6570016]

Anything interesting on Aliexpress these days? Just discovered they prepay vat now so its practical to order from them again.

[Anonymous No.6570424]

>>6567287
>they give me the worst drawing anxiety too for some reason.
You open up a beautiful, pristine, virginal sketchbook and you want whatever you draw to be perfect. At least that's how I feel.

[Anonymous No.6570483]

anyone know where to get toned paper in the UK that isn't just fucking strathmore pads and more pads?
checked jacksonart, but no dice. all I want is the equivalent of A3 printer paper but tan, can't find it anywhere

[Anonymous No.6570512]

>>6567356
If you're in the US, dollar tree has small cheap canvas (made in india, not china, but always double check as their suppliers can change). You can also paint on hardboard (AKA masonate), available at big box hardware stores.
>>6567360
You can get acid-free heavy weight cardstock from office or industrial suppliers for much cheaper than art stores.
>>6567691
>>6567811
>>6567923
Thrift store inkjet printer. Usually the print head is clogged and won't work without a chemical cleanout since they often use the ink itself as a lubricant for the print head, but it will function as a scanner and usually can be had for $20-$30.
>>6567807
>sharpener
General's Three-In-One. Made in Germany, no snapping. If you need additional strength get a small, box end wrench sized to your preferred brand - should be 6 or 7mm. Slip it over the end and you'll have extra leverage.
A retractable replaceable blade utility knife is also nice if you want to sharpen to different angles. One that has blade storage in the handle keeps mess down. Make sure you keep isopropyl alchohol on hand to clean the blade before actual use, to not get your pencil and work greasy.

[Anonymous No.6570520]

>>6567691
I have a canoscan Lide 110. It's an older model but
It still works well. The problem with flatbed scanners these days is they're rather niche, You have very few options, and the prices are double what they were ten years ago. you're best options are thrift stores which surprisingly have at least one flatbed on hand at any given time.

[Anonymous No.6570544]

>>6570520
>flatbed scanners
So that's what they're called, that's already big help. They don't really have thrift stores where I live. I guess the thriftiest option will always be a used broken printer with a working scanner, but blehh they take up so much space

[Anonymous No.6570770]

>>6570544
why not take pictures of receipts with your phone? there are apps to scan such documents

[Anonymous No.6570784]

what are good beginner colored pencils?

[Anonymous No.6570800]

>>6567287
Graphgear 500 and Faber Castell lead is the best combo for me. Never experience breaking again, plus it last longer than normal leads

[Anonymous No.6570807]

>>6570784
Faber Castell classic, buy a pack of 12 to see if you like colored pencils. Polychromos is the most cost efficient artist grade if you want an upgrade.

[Anonymous No.6570814]

Do you guys know where to get (or which brand) different hardness graphite pencil sets? preferably online

[Anonymous No.6570816]

>>6570770
Yeahhh but they're kinda meh and you gotta align things...
I mean you're not wrong

[Anonymous No.6570851]

>mechanical pencil
>fineliner
>kneaded eraser
let me guess, you need more?

[Anonymous No.6570855]

>>6570851
yeah some paper would be nice

[Anonymous No.6570877]

>>6570851
>paint
>wall

[Anonymous No.6570878]

>>6570814

What

Literally any brand has different hardness sets. Try staedtler lumographs.

[Anonymous No.6570880]

>>6570483

Try googling 'kraft paper'

[Anonymous No.6571296]

Anyone have a good recommended starter gouache for someone trying to get into gouache?

[Anonymous No.6571421]

>>6571296
I'd say, if you're really motivated, try a basic starter kit with big tubes. I bought one for sales by pebeo, about 8€ for 5 tubes (primaries, black, white).

Use this for extensive practice.

Later, move on to high-end product. You'll be able to appreciate them much more.

[Anonymous No.6571506]

>>6570814
Cheap Joe's Art Supplies has General Kimberly sets, if you're in the US.
>>6570851
>kneaded eraser
Contains oil and can mess up other media you apply. The true chad tool is an eraser shield since it can get your erasing into crevasses that even a kneaded can't touch.

[Anonymous No.6571533]

>>6571506
>kneaded eraser
>contains oil and can mess up other media you apply.
Blu tack is the real alternative.

[Anonymous No.6571548]

>>6571296
Talens 50ml bottles are the only real option, it's what I did, you can compliment with higher quality gouache for key colors, some of their colors are garbage but it's up to you to do the research and learn about pigments.

There's also those jelly gouache, HIMI Gouache Paint Set is only 29 bucks but I can't comment on its quality, Talens is good artists quality, it's just not on the same level as W&N or Holbein for example.

[Anonymous No.6571564]

>>6570483
There's a few brands in Europe that do toned paper like Clairefontaine Paint'On and Canson Mi-teints.

[Anonymous No.6573016]

>>6571296
DO NOT USE CHEAP "STUDENT" GOUACHE
I REPEAT
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE CHEAP GOUACHE
You will get different results from the same mixing

[Anonymous No.6573270]

>>6567537
bump for this

[Anonymous No.6573299]

>>6564278
Does anybody know what type of pastel Zinaida Serebriakova would have used for something like this?

[Anonymous No.6573308]

>>6573299
another one...

[Anonymous No.6574376]

>>6571296
get talens gouache, 50ml jars are good quality for the money. colors mix well, coverage is good and so far any of pigments didn't change color for me. i got a color/mixing chart i did 2-3 years ago and it didn't color shift yet.

[Anonymous No.6574621]

>>6570851
>metal point
>quill
>bread crumbs
let me guess, you need more?

[Anonymous No.6574640]

>>6573308
>>6573299
not sure but perhaps similar to this
https://www.artistsnetwork.com/art-mediums/pastel/19th-century-pastel-art/

[Anonymous No.6575036]

>>6570851
i, a childless incel, treat my art projects like my children and want to provide the best i can

[Anonymous No.6575046]

>>6566262
based foreverpencilchad

[Anonymous No.6575079]

>>6570851
my most minimalist setup is a 0.3 leadholder and a tombow mono eraser (the little squarish one). I love drawing small with lots of detail

[Anonymous No.6575083]

>>6575079
*tombow mono ZERO
the clicky ones. I have so many of those I can't count

[Anonymous No.6575129]

>>6573016
>You will get different results from the same mixing
That's one weird argument (I don't understand it).

Relatively cheap is gouache can be fairly decent, albeit non-permanent. One key advantage is that you get a lot of (rewettable) paint for cheap, which is great for heavy practice.

Using expensive gouache for practice, unless you have large pockets, can be much more intimidating.

>>6570483
As an alternative option, how about a DIY? Earth-tone gouache/watercolors are relatively cheap & permanent; you just need a thick enough paper. You can also "dry" tone printer paper e.g. with sanguine or whatever, but you'll have to work/think a little to get something relatively smooth

[Anonymous No.6576386]

>>6575129
artists doing diy? not if they can avoid it. they'll spend hours on cooking weekly but won't do a fraction in preparing their materials.

[Anonymous No.6577493]

My dear anons. Anyone have a recommendation for a cheaper alternative to copic markers?

[Anonymous No.6577519]

>>6577493
POSCA

[Anonymous No.6577528]

>>6575046
>copying the little window that let's you see how much ink is left even though the forever pencil does not require ink

[Anonymous No.6577544]

>>6566262
Get a mechanical pencil with an H grade and a 2B grade and you'll be golden. Get a ruler too.

[Anonymous No.6577623]

>>6577519
why do they seem so bright?

[Anonymous No.6577650]

>>6577493
Ohuhu

[Anonymous No.6577827]

>>6577528
its not copying, its likely reusing something they already make.

[Anonymous No.6577829]

Got a question, anyone know of a good fine liner, something really REALLY fine, as fine as you can get, that is cheap, and that will maintain its finest thought the entire pens ink as long as you aren't retard strength digging into paper?

[Anonymous No.6577838]

>>6577827
They're definitely copying - those are knockoff Lamy Safaris - but I see what you mean.

[Anonymous No.6577910]

>>6577838
yea it is a copy of something else already, but tooling on any part, even small ones, costs upwards 100k for mass production, even small run shit costs upwards 10k, so instead of spinning up new tooling, they retrofitted something they already had.

[Anonymous No.6577963]

>>6577829
I like Copic's fine liners. The refillable ones (which they might be discontinuing?) also have replaceable nibs in case you're a retard, but they have a cheaper not refillable version too.

[Anonymous No.6578096]

>>6566262
add a 0.3 pencil in B, a kneaded eraser and a tortillon
get Pentel Ain Stein leads

[Anonymous No.6578098]

>>6566307
for my outdoors kit I made a little sleeve out of paper, with a harder backing, and keep loose sheets in it cut to about 15x20cm. takes virtually no space

[Anonymous No.6578358]

>>6577963
Copic SPs came with a lot of caveats though.

You have two different kinds of ink. Smaller sizes use a different one and the excuse is that the smaller nibs have smaller components and thus require a different blend (which sounds like bullshit to me). The ink itself looks gray-ish when you draw with them, not as black as the normal Copic fineliners. Replacing a cartdrige is more expensive than buying one disposable fineliner too. The nibs feel more fragile, even more fragile, than your average fineliner as well. They don't stay "put" when you use them, there's no "click" position in which the nib stays fixed to the rest of the body, and it might get a bit loose after a bit. I wouldn't really reccomend them desu.

[Anonymous No.6578829]

>>6578358
And they're quite heavy, complete garbage, even the puny Uni-Pin are better. I use Faber-Castell Pitt pens and there's nothing better.

[Anonymous No.6578921]

>>6577829
There's the Ohto graphic liner. Instead of plastic they use a metal roller ball, so it's more durable.
The ink is also archival and waterproof but takes
a while to dry completely.

[Anonymous No.6578933]

>>6578829
Faber Castell's fineliners are probably the best ones I've tried together with the microns. Staedtler's are too alcohol-y, to the point where the ink kinda smells of it too. Plus the ink is gray. To be honest, the worst experience I've had is with the Copic SPs. It feels like Copic is the Apple of the art supply world.

[Anonymous No.6579016]

>>6577493
"watercolor" :wink:

[Anonymous No.6579020]

>>6576386
You mean, /ic/-artists: I've for instance saw Stephen Bauman preping (tinting/stretching) his own paper, or Santos at some point grinding his own ink.

At some point, if you want high-quality (say 100% cotton) toned paper, the only option is DIY. I've saw regular (cellulose) tinted paper degrading color-wise from light over a few months (Paint-On; it was partially covered, so the difference was clearly noticeable).

[Anonymous No.6579048]

>>6578358
different inks is something I had to look into a long time ago for rapidograph/fountain pens and airbrushes,

for airbrushes, the cheaper paints (acrilic) typically have larger pigment particles, so you can spray them out of something high end like you can something low end with worse tolerances. I wouldn't be shocked if there was something like that in the fineliners, where they cant use pigments the same way due to clogging on smaller nibs, or even just flow rate.

[Anonymous No.6579050]

>>6578921
im ok with rollerballs, my main use is just getting away from nibs, while nibs are great, they also really REALLY are a pain in the ass to use unless you use them every day and know exactly what you are doing. I tend to have long stretches where I my not use a nib and come back to being half retarded with using them again.

[Anonymous No.6579205]

>>6579048
You can use the same ink on any rapidograph, though. In rapidographs clogging can be an issue but I never had it happen to me. I've never used airbrushes like that. The thing is, Copic SPs work in the same way fineliners do, the ink is in a sponge which is later taken into the nib with a plastic thingy. And the felt point is kind of a sponge itself. So the ink is never transported directly. Rapidographs and rollerballs take a bit longer to dry and can bleed through bad paper sometimes because they transport the ink directly, and it's pure ink.

[Anonymous No.6579222]

>>6579205
iwata microns don't take kindly to applebarn being sprayed through them, but harbor freight will sell a 20$ brush that sprays it like its made for it, personal experience, and india ink is able to have large enough particles to completely fuck a rapidograph but some fountain pens are just fine with it, some aren't.

I'm just saying I wouldn't be shocked if copics used different kink types for different pends because of how porus the tips are or how they want to adjust the flow.

[Anonymous No.6579230]

>>6578933
Microns are good too for those brush like lines, haven't tried more than these, all I know is that the SP was a waste of money, makes no sense either, it's cheaper and better to just buy regular pens, you can even dump with a syringe india ink on the Pitt pens to juice them up until the nibs don't work anymore.

[Anonymous No.6579236]

>>6578921
Rotring makes something like that, Tikky Graphic Fineliner, I have one and they're alright.

[Anonymous No.6579242]

>>6579205
What ink do you use on the rapidographs? I have two pens and some inks flow better than others but I haven't hit the right spot yet.

[Anonymous No.6579454]

do mechanical pencils come in 2h hb b 2b etc, in like a set? which ones is the best?

[Anonymous No.6579722]

>>6579454
>a set
quit being like this

[Anonymous No.6579733]

>>6579242
Not him but I never had a problem with any rapidograph brand / ink combination in my whole life, just use them regularly so they don't clog

[Anonymous No.6579734]

>>6579454
no the led hardness you buy separately from mechanical pencil
mechanical pencil are of different sizes example (0.3, 0.5, 0.7) etc
>>6575129
powder pastel i heard use to tone paper
>>6571506
wtf i have these i never knew they are for erasers
>>6567928
reputable brand thx

[Anonymous No.6579738]

>>6567928
>drawing with the side is a fucking meme.
strong disagree
I use Carl sharpeners they are great. I have an Angel-5, an Angel-5 PrEmIuM and I have a CC2000 on the way
I only wish they didn't ditch the steel grip for the softer one, I don't give a shit that the pencil gets dented and the soft grip slips sometimes, but I guess it's just the Japanese being A E S T H E T I C

[Anonymous No.6579742]

>>6579734
>wtf i have these i never knew they are for erasers
they're not great, you're better off with a tombow mono zero or an electric eraser

[Anonymous No.6579991]

>>6579733
I have, inks have different formulations, some more shelac others more carbon, I want to try Dr Martin's but they're out of stock for so long now. I'm using European inks which aren't on the same level as the ones from the US.

[Anonymous No.6579997]

>>6579242
Rotring's Drawing Ink. That's how it's called. It's ink made specifically for rapidographs and it also works in brush pens like the Pentel Pocket Brush.

[Anonymous No.6579999]

>>6577493
Anything that's not alcohol based imo. Alcohol based markers aren't archival.

[Anonymous No.6580014]

>>6579997
Rotring ink is also out of stock where I live, I thought they stopped making it, will have to do some searching.

[Anonymous No.6580020]

>>6580014
Here you can find the small reservoirs that have like 23 ml of ink on them (which still means around 20 refills). I can't find the 200ml bottle though. Rapidographs were discontinued by Rotring like 2 years ago, they only make isographs now. Makes sense, because most technical pens by other brands work like isographs.

[Anonymous No.6580021]

>>6579991
Do NOT use inks with shellacs on technical pens, fountain pens or brush pens. Shellac is too dense and will cause clogging and damage to their internal parts..

[Anonymous No.6580093]

before I buy a set of 6 grey copic sketch pens, how bad of an idea is it to use copics on xerox 80gsm printer paper?
secondly, is this a good beginner color set?

[Anonymous No.6580111]

>>6580093
Copics from personal experience dry more than other markers, I would just use ones that aren't refillable if they are cheaper. I've heard it's the caps that crack but I can't confirm that to be true or the reason.
The paper is fine for markers.

[Anonymous No.6580217]

>>6580021
I've used shellac ink in rapidographs for a decade and nothing ever happened

[Anonymous No.6581061]

>>6580093
Just buy WG2 and spend it all.
If by the time you're through with it you like markers buy more.
Alternatively buy one of the 24 piece Touch Twin clone sets.

[Anonymous No.6583520]

>>6579020
idk about it being more common with /ic/ artists. i can't find certain recipes a lot of stuff because most just buy their stuff.
most artists don't care if their materials are the highest quality.
on the subject of tinting paper, i use hide glue with alum size with pigment. the hide glue is more resistant to acids and the alum binds the hide glue better and makes the paper slightly more water resistant. the japanese use it for sizing their papers for more traditional arts.

[Anonymous No.6583711]

>>6579734
>powder pastel i heard use to tone paper
Yup, powder sanguine works; it can be tricky to have a smooth application though

>>6583520
I think there's a sweet balance to be found: pro artists will definitely care about using resilient, quality material, but at some point they have to make a living, and making everything from scratch is time consuming.

It's the same story than the doctor's secretary: the doctor would be much more efficient than his secretary, but 1h of desk job brings him 10 while 1h of playing doctors pays idk 50, so it's more profitable (business-wise) to hire a secretary, even if she's less efficient, because it still allows him to maximize his gains.

I haven't bothered (yet?) with glue for papers; so far, watercolors did a good enough job.

[Anonymous No.6584595]

Any chink made artist grade colored pencils that close enough to Polychromos?
Pic rel seem like a cheap knock off Polychromos and got good review. Any thought?

[Anonymous No.6586110]

>>6583711
All paper will degrade. That said, I have some drawings made in printer paper from 2008 and they haven't yellowed yet. I'd say having paints or inks degrading is a worse problem than just paper yellowing. I'd even say that people like the look of old, yellowed paper.

[Anonymous No.6586240]

>>6583711
artists not caring about material also extends beyond the topic of making your own materials. for example most artists don't care about paper as much as they should. cotton is the best that is readily available at the moment yet few artists, even pro artists, draw on cotton. it's mostly watercolor artists who care about paper aside from just texture and if it's acid-free. there are handmade rag specialty papers but those are more rare and expensive.
if they can't be bothered about using the best ready-made materials out there that are not that expensive, preparing their own materials or improving on them is going to be even more unlikely.
i think it's also because there is not enough information on making, preparing or improving your own materials that makes it seem like something that is a tiresome endeavor and people just assume that mass manufactured stuff is close to the best in quality.

[Anonymous No.6586271]

>>6584595
where is the pic?

[Anonymous No.6587669]

>>6586271

[Anonymous No.6587674]

>>6564278
not as durable as oil paint if you count restoration

[Anonymous No.6589382]

>>6586110
> All paper will degrade
Of course.

> printer paper from 2008 and they haven't yellowed yet
Degradation is caused by (especially direct sun)light, acidic environment (pollution) and humidity.

> just paper yellowing
The problem is not simply yellowing: the paper becomes brittle and fall into pieces. Journal paper typically (newsprint) is very fragile in this way, and I'm sure by having it on your wall in a room exposed with direct sunlight, you'll see it degrading "quickly" enough

>>6586240
Another problem is that, caring hard about material is a job on its own. handprint's author is a great example: the guy is a treasure on technicalities, but his paintings skills are so underdeveloped in comparison.

Yet another issue is that buyers don't care as much as they should. Most of them have a distorted sense of beauty, and a lack of interest for technical details.

I'm confident people in the fine-art/atelier community are more sensible to those kinds of matters

[Anonymous No.6589506]

>>6584595
There's nothing up to Polychromos quality yet but Indra and Tryme are literally made in the same factory as the Prismacolor.

[Anonymous No.6589985]

My dad surprised me today with a 20 count box of caran d'ache luminance pencils after fixing his gaming pc. Never tried them before. Are they any good?

[Anonymous No.6590353]

>>6589985
Best of the best.
Your dad love you.

[Anonymous No.6590531]

I got wax and dry crayons
How I'm supposed to use them? They smear over with pencil marks.

[Anonymous No.6590611]

>>6589985
Those are top tier pencils anon

[Anonymous No.6591008]

how do i make my own ink with hide glue? i tried making a cake using some burnt bones and some bone glue with distilled water but it just gelled up. i want dry ink i can use room temperature water to make a pure black ink. should i just increase the pigment content compared to the glue? is rabbit skin glue better?
if not i'll just use gum arabic.

[Anonymous No.6591290]

>>6591008
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GSuFSYY-X9w

Let dry for years I guess?

[Anonymous No.6592215]

what're some good mechanical pencil brands for sketching? i'm tired of my flow getting interrupted by pencils going blunt

[Anonymous No.6592227]

>>6592215
Pentel graphgear 500/1000. 1000 is the best because the tip can be withdrawn. I personally don't like the retard looking grip so I chose 500

[Anonymous No.6592234]

>>6564278
I bought this set immediately after watched Shibasaki-sensei's review. Pretty amazing for a chink made art supply.

[Anonymous No.6592342]

>>6592215
Pentel P205 for sketching and Pentel Graphgear 500 for lining is the GOAT.

Other pencils have gimmicks that sound good but end up interfering with your drawing flow. i.e. the Kuru Toga's lead twisting mechanism is meant to keep your point sharp as you write but the marks you make while drawing are not the same as the marks you make while writing so you ends up with shitty uneven lines. And the GG1000, Rotring, and other expensive pencils put a lot of oomph on their retractable sleeve. But again, that's useful for architects or engineers who write a couple numbers and then pocket their pen. For an artist it just introduces wobbling to the pencil that makes your lines uncertain unless you press harder and then you risk breaking the lead.

[Anonymous No.6592345]

>>6592234
Chinese products for the international market are the cheapest shit possible that will not incur a lawsuit. Because that's what the international companies commissioning the products want.

Chinese products for the Chinese market are close to the same level as Japanese and Korean products. And locally, close in price too. It's when imports happen and the cucked Korean/Japanese distribution models have to compete with China's modern silk road that their quality products truly deviate in cost.

[Anonymous No.6592447]

>>6591290
i'm going to store it as ink powder or as small cakes so i won't need to wait. even moist should be no problem to add water for consistency if i get the correct proportion.
i like how easy to wet the gum arabic ink is but it also makes it easier for lines to melt together as i draw. i'll be using it mostly to ink the lines for woodcut so i need pure black ink that has good flow and can do fine lines with a brush.

[Anonymous No.6592454]

>>6591290
That's not better than Dr Ph Martin's.

[Anonymous No.6592460]

what's the cheapest way to get decently expressive colors with trad?
coming from digital btw. my "style" wildly flip flops between dark/heavy shadows and pastel colors, so i think i might be fucked for something cheap?

[Anonymous No.6592461]

>>6592460
give example of expressive.

[Anonymous No.6592466]

>>6592461
i didn't really explain it too well but i'm not too sure myself. i think i'm referring to a wide color range without any being super muted either from blending or something else
saw this painting a while back and i really liked it. i think it might be watercolor but i've heard that watercolor tools can be hella expensive

[Anonymous No.6592495]

>>6592466
Watercolor is cheaper than you thought.
A set of 12 Holbein wc can last you for a year or more. 100% cotton papers are expensive but if you just want to sketch, just buy a cheaper paper. Also chink made 100% cotton papers like Baohong are cheap and high quality.
Colored pencil are also good for detail and expressive, a pack of 12 polychromos can create a lot of artwork, paper are cheap too.
Gouache, acrylic are also cheap, can be expensive if you want to go professional.
Oil/soft pastel are good, easy to blend. Pentel oil pastel is the standard for beginner. If you want to upgrade buy the one in OP. Sennelier oil pastels are overrated but their soft pastel are top tier.

[Anonymous No.6592722]

>>6592466
there's a few points of views to look at this.
inexpensive because you pay less up front (pastels, acrylics)
inexpensive because what you pay for will last a long time (water colors)
inexpensive if you don't count brushes, mediums, supports (oil paint, maybe water color)
inexpensive because you can make the stuff out of available or inexpensive materials but needs more work (nihonga)

color range is hard to judge because you can use a medium with the same pigments but some techniques can utilize the range more, such as glazing with oil.

[Anonymous No.6592742]

>>6592722
scratch that about nihonga/distemper using inexpensive materials. it's about the same as watercolor for the most part.
anyway price of paint is mostly determined by the pigments even more than the medium, and if you are wise about being minimalist in your approach like not buying a whole bunch of medium that you only try out once, which a lot of beginners fall to during experimentation stage.

[Anonymous No.6592828]

>>6592227
the 1000 looks like it'll get annoying too, especially with that pocket clip sticking out so much, thanks for the reply, i'll grab the 500 since it looks like what i'm looking for
>>6592342
yeah i definitely don't need all those gimmicky additions; can't say i'm surprised you and another mentioned pentel in the end, i've had great fun with their brush pens in the past; thanks for the help btw, seems like the 500 is the way to go, might grab that p205 and see how the two work together too

[Anonymous No.6593061]

>>6592460
there is no color mixing in digital.
neither is there, say, a perfect blue in trad.

you've got to actively learn how to mix colors, how different pigments behave and so forth.

>>6592466
this is an excellent watercolor indeed. note that watercolor color mixing is generally different that what you'd encounter in other trad mediums, as it relies a lot on transparency.

IIRC Gurney made a series of videos recently on colors; I'd check that.

>>6592495
>A set of 12 Holbein wc can last you for a year or more
if you work on (very) small scale, maybe. some colors tends to be very useful in wc, and get used much faster.

haven't tried Baohong papers; but some 100% cotton paper are awful. I've bought some Canson Heritage, it has portions of the paper with no sizing, so the watercolor bleeds through.

good watercolor paper generally is expensive, and if you want to get good, from experience, you've got to burn through paint and paper; there's no way around.

for /beg/ watercolorists, I'd recommend to buy gouache: generally cheaper, behaves essentially identically.

[Post your art setup No.6593334]

any recommendation for mechanical pencils? 0.3-0.5 ??

I was thinking about the pentel graphgear 1000 but i have no idea if its any good.


what do you anon recommend?

[Anonymous No.6593340]

>>6593334
these helpful bros pointed me towards the 500 and p205
>>6592342
>>6592227

[Anonymous No.6593410]

>>6566140
Fixative works but use very little and know it will dull the colors and take out highlights requiring you to add some back, that's called the colors sinking in

[Post your art setup No.6593428]

>>6593340
based anon thanks a lot.

[Anonymous No.6594077]

I was gifted a bunch of oil pastel sets, and a lot of them have flashy cheap colors. Moreover, for some reason there was no normal red, only orange and raspberry, so I also made the red piece myself. So I took and melted down one set to make new colors.

[Anonymous No.6594083]

>>6594077
To do this, you need a candle, a metal scoop, and molds into which you need to pour melted pastel. I used empty watercolor cuvettes for the square crayons, and a cut-off syringe for the cylindrical ones.
The pastel melts and sets very quickly, one piece of crayon took about 5 minutes to set, but it also depends on the size, I think.
You will need more white crayons if you want lighter colors, so I suggest you buy more. It took me two white crayons for this whole set.
If you want very pure colors without inclusions, you will have to wash the scoop every time before remelting, but I personally did not bother with that.

[Anonymous No.6594090]

>>6566262
A man of taste. This is my set up but I also keep a shading pencil. Used to do black wings but they are a bit pricey. General's soft graphite works gud enuff for on the go sketching.

I also have bought a few of the offbrand Jinhoa Safari clones. Pretty decent but the real thing is weighted better.

[Anonymous No.6594091]

>>6568901
Noodlers makes archival fountain pen ink, I believe.

[Anonymous No.6595560]

>>6592215
>>6592227
>>6592342
>>6593334

I'd reccomend the graph 1000 for pro, not the graphgear 1000. It's lightweight and very sturdy. The weight balance on the 500 might throw some people off considering the grip is made out of metal.

>>6594091
They are done, but they're also expensive as fuck. Like 2x or 3x the price of a normal FP ink (of a certain quality, say, Lamy's, for reference)

[Anonymous No.6597934]

Anyone have tips for the most economical way to learn black ink wash and water color paintings? Is it really necessary to buy 140lb paper?

[Anonymous No.6598104]

>>6597934
East Asian trad work is ink on thin rice paper.
Russian students use low-grade (cellulose) paper for their watercolor sketches.

You don't need to, but good quality paper makes your life easier, especially for watercolor.

More detailed explanation is too cumbersome to write. Just experiment and use your brain.

[Anonymous No.6598319]

>>6597934
150 gsm+ is fine, you don't need expensive paper for learning.

[Anonymous No.6598816]

DecoArt multi-surface coffee bean color literally use cocoa powder as pigment, it smells exactly like chocolate, since it's labeled as non-toxic...should I taste it?

[Anonymous No.6599095]

>>6598816
there's something else that's brown and non-toxic; doen't smells like chocolate (usually) but kinda looks like it

keep it real,

[Anonymous No.6601377]

>>6597934
https://lebenzon-paintbrushes.com/magicpaper/
maybe worth it for practicing brush strokes. just uses water. only thing is you can't practice dilute and colored washes.
i usually just practice on scrap hardwood then scrape off the doodles. but i don't do much washes, broad lines or doing watercolor effects. i mostly use a small brush instead of a dip pen.

[Anonymous No.6601682]

>>6601377
I bought some magic paper for Chinese calligraphy, used it a few times and went to printer paper with cheap ink.

The paper had a strong texture, not only is this unpleasant, but I expect it to effectively sand the brush.

Maybe not all magic paper are the same though. In China they used to use water on pieces of rock/ground, and still do as far as I know.

Besides, the real thing that require great paper with watercolor is mostly when using big washes, or layering. Which can't be praticed on magic paper

[Anonymous No.6602261]

I am going to be more serious about sketching. What kind of colored pencils do you recommend for it (not coloring, just sketching)? What about inking?

>>6568063 >>6568910 >>6570512
Is there some sort of thin board to hold the sheets of paper?

[Anonymous No.6602268]

>>6602261
Faber castell classic probably. It's easy to eraser with them.

[Anonymous No.6602272]

r8 my nooby stuffs

[Anonymous No.6602293]

>>6602272
Lack of wooden pencil.

[Anonymous No.6602309]

>>6602293
I have a bunch of Ticonderoga's... what would you recommend

[Anonymous No.6602318]

>>6602272
Try Uni Pin Fine Liner, they're quite different compared to the Microns and cheaper but they have a different quality that is better for smoother writing.
Also the classic Pentel Sharp P205 is a must.

[Anonymous No.6602341]

>>6602261
> colored pencils
unironically, regular graphite?

> inking
hm, a basic fineliner (say, a micron 05) is a bit limited, but that can be great to start. the flexible felt tip brush pens (tombow fudenosuke, sakurai mangaka flexible) are expensive, but much more versatile.

if you wanna get serious / work from home, brush & quills.

>thin board to hold the sheets of paper
I just bought a 50×80cm or so mdf, 5mm thick, about 5€. 2 coats of acrylic stuff on one side to isolate drawing surface from it. use some pins or clamp to hold paper on it. let it rest on the side of a desk. obviously you can use a smaller one.

>>6602272
toned paper and no white? go draw and pyw now

[Anonymous No.6602384]

>>6602261
box of col-erase prismacolors

[Anonymous No.6602556]

>>6602309
Ticonderogas are unironically great for pencil work I'd say. Especially if you're going for comic art, which seems to be the case due to your gear. Even pros use them. You don't need the best stuff there is, just reliable stuff. And you can get 100s of Ticonderogas basically for peanuts, so...

[Anonymous No.6602933]

Can someone recommend me a high quality charcoal pencil?

[Anonymous No.6602988]

>>6602933
They're pretty much all similar from my experience.

You may want to try a Pierre Noire (Conté). Not charcoal, there's a learning curve, but it's a nifty little tool

[Anonymous No.6603053]

platinum oleenu shield
cop or drop?

[Post your art setup No.6603072]

>>6602272
why would you want a kuru toga to draw lmfao

[Anonymous No.6603082]

Any Mechanical pencil that uses at least 95% of the lead?

[Anonymous No.6603247]

>>6602318
>Try Uni Pin Fine Liner
>Also the classic Pentel Sharp P205 is a must.
Will check these out
>>6602341
>toned paper and no white?
it's white bro
>>6602556
>Ticonderogas are unironically great for pencil work I'd say. Especially if you're going for comic art, which seems to be the case due to your gear. Even pros use them. You don't need the best stuff there is, just reliable stuff. And you can get 100s of Ticonderogas basically for peanuts, so...
I'm actually practicing drawing more specifically for tattooing. I like ameri-trad style and the "ignorant" look without the childlike drawing style
>>6603072
>why would you want a kuru toga to draw lmfao
Idk bro I read it was good? I clearly said it was my noob stuff, bitch

[Anonymous No.6603313]

>>6603247
>it's white bro
racist

[Anonymous No.6603318]

Is using a proportional scale divider or digital caliper for measuring worth it? I need accuracy in measurement when doing initial sketches from reference

[Anonymous No.6603336]

>>6603318
no, pencil+thumb & eye is the best option

[Post your art setup No.6603772]

>>6603247
>Idk bro I read it was good? I clearly said it was my noob stuff, bitch

my bad g , its a good mechanical pencil desu. I just think its more suited for writing than drawing due to the rotation mechanism of the lead.

Still perfectly usable desu.

[Anonymous No.6605665]

does anyone do woodcut relief printing? do you use water or oil based ink? i'm mostly practicing my cutting technique on scraps so i haven't done inking yet, but i'm thinking of going with water-based, possibly animal glue. i know i will be making my own ink either way but there's hardly any serious recipes online.
my style is purely black outline and hatching, no solid black areas if that makes a difference.

[Anonymous No.6605985]

In Europe we don't have Prismacolor so the best pencils are already not an option, after trying different options including premium ones I found Polychromos to be good enough and better than the rest price and quality wise. For black I prefer Maped, it sharpens easier and has a smoother writing but they don't sell them by color only in 12 packs or different colors.

[Anonymous No.6606514]

>>6605985

Europoor here, Polychromos are nice but are oil based instead of wax like prismacolor are. If you want an alternative for prismacolor in Europe, look at Caran d' Ache Luminance.

[Anonymous No.6606657]

>>6606514
That's the premium brand I tried, I like some of the Pablo as well. Luminance is very crumbly, maybe that's not the best description, granular, chunky, something like that.
They combine really well with acrylics though (Drew Struzan style).
But even Prismacolor went downhill in quality, allegedly.

[Anonymous No.6608522]

>Everybody wants to be a painter, but nobody wants to wash all these brushes

[Anonymous No.6608887]

>>6608522
> Washing brushes is the best part for me, feeling the water in my hand, the smell of soap
> t. that guy

[Anonymous No.6610629]

>>6564278
Any recommended sketchbooks with smooth or not too textured paper?

[Anonymous No.6610635]

>>6608522
>>6608887
dont you just soak the brush in a cleaning solution and then let it dry?

[Anonymous No.6610973]

>>6610629
Sakurai's, or Strathmore toned.

[Anonymous No.6611047]

>>6610635
clean first with solvent (water or turp then) to remove excess.
then clean with soap thoroughly until it's clear. it can take a few round to remove all the paint/ink.

it takes time, especially for oils, where you tend to use more brushes.

you usually want to thoroughly clean the brushes, so that there's no paint stacking up in the ferrule, as it will otherwise dry, and tend to spray the hairs.

I'm not aware of a magic cleaning solution that would avoid me all this hassle

[Anonymous No.6611196]

This will sound stupid, but how do you know when the drawing material just...gels with you? Like it's hard to tell when you are a beginner if certain tools and paper helps or just random instances of decent drawing occured. I'm mostly in the sketching phase with pencils and paper by the way.

[Anonymous No.6611247]

>>6611196
You just try, desu. Buy second hand medium and resell if you want to save cost. Buy mid range quality at least.

[Anonymous No.6611255]

>>6611196
>>6611247
This thread exist to help people like you. I was like that a year ago. Now I'm OP most of the time to share what I learn from my own experience

[Anonymous No.6611305]

>>6611196
You have to develop an understanding of what your material can achieve, under which circumstances.

> sketching phase with pencils and paper
Let me give you an example. Make three small squares, say 2×2cm each. The goal is to see how you can achieve your darkest dark with a single pencil, in 3 different ways.

1. use pressure
2. no pressure, but apply many uniform layers
3. same as 2, but always manage to keep a fine tip.

Other exercise: try to draw series of lines, 1.5mm appart, keeping the width of the lines/values identical.

You can do that as warmups. Over time, you'll develop an intuitive understanding of what your material can achieve. By master studies, you'll then be able to understand how subtle professional can be with their material.

[Anonymous No.6613389]

does anyone know how quills from different birds compare? duck, turkey, goose, pheasant. can't find any crow or raven.

[Anonymous No.6613395]

>>6613389
like a traditionally made quill? no difference other than size and feather color

[Anonymous No.6613943]

>>6595560
>I'd reccomend the graph 1000 for pro
picked one up after you mentioned it instead of the 500/1000; loving it so far, only downside is i'm halfway through an 80gsm sketchbook i'm forcing myself to get through and it just glides over the shitty paper like it's nothing :^)

looking forward to using it on some thicker paper though, i can tell the pencil itself is great already, so thanks again for the recommendation anon

[Anonymous No.6614195]

which one should i buy?
i don't have a lot of experience with painting, but i liked using watercolor and gouache on my sketchbook, so i'd want something that dries fast and doesn't lose color/vibrancy.
also, has anyone used himi gouaches? they are popular and not so expensive, so i'm curious.

[Anonymous No.6614314]

>>6614195
Depending where you are, either get Holbein gouache it's cheaper than W&N because it has a bit more and the tubes are well full. Talens if you want cheap but artist quality.

The stuff you listed is student grade, you don't need many colors when using gouache, just the basics like burnt sienna, burnt umber, black, titanium white, cad yellow, magenta and ultramarine blue.

[Anonymous No.6614320]

>>6614195
Gouache is generally considered the easier medium to sketch with

[Anonymous No.6614373]

>>6567537
>>6573270
bump

[Anonymous No.6614488]

>>6614195
W&N Cotman's are bad. Their professional line is
good but their student grades are awful. Don't buy them. If you want something cheap and better quality then check out ShinHan (their professional brand, not the PWC)

[Anonymous No.6614564]

>>6614373
If you can't get Strathmore then no point in looking for one because there ain't any.

[Anonymous No.6615320]

Are all oil paints smell like pussy or just the cheap one that I just bought?

[Anonymous No.6615323]

>>6615320
>subtly pretending you know what pussy smells like
none of us know what pussy smells like

[Anonymous No.6615358]

>>6613943
>t glides over the shitty paper like it's nothing
try different led?

[Anonymous No.6615365]

>>6615358
no need, it's my own fault for months ago accidentally buying new sketchbooks that have stupidly thin paper and no texture, nothing to do with the lead or pencil

the plus is that i don't care for it so much and feel more relaxed to fuck up and explore rather than feeling like i'm wasting paper

i've got other sketchbooks that are more appealing but if i don't use these ones they're just going to sit and take up space forever going unused

[Anonymous No.6615435]

>>6615320

They should only smell vaguely of linseed oil. I dunno what pussy you've smelled but that ain't it.

[Anonymous No.6615449]

>>6615365
thats odd, is it the glossy kind of paper? mine can draw on printer paper, is it smother than that

[Anonymous No.6615512]

>>6615449
>is it the glossy kind of paper?
yep, and so thin that the paper is transparent, but it's alright for just fucking around with thumbnails or gesture practice; i just tried printer paper and it has a bit more texture to it and is actually nicer to draw on haha

it's a leuchtturm1917 but plain notebook version, not sketchbook; i was pretty tired when i ordered it assuming it was the sketchbook one, didn't notice until a few months later when i came to actually using it, oh well

[Anonymous No.6615849]

>>6613943
Well done. Smooth paper is better for drawing, even sketches, I'd say. Gritty paper will make you run through your leads much faster than normal.

[Anonymous No.6615898]

>>6614195
gouache. cheaper, you can use it as watercolor to a very decent extent. you may want to progressively buy individual tubes. start with a while and a brown or a black

>>6615320
no, oil paint smells delicious, almost edible. lel

[Anonymous No.6619162]

is it just me, or are fineliners never quite the same after the ink starts thinning out, even if the nib is still intact and you refill them with india ink?

[Anonymous No.6619175]

>>6619162
Works better with Faber-Castell Pitt's, problem is the XS gets clogged.

[Anonymous No.6619299]

>>6619162
Yes, the behave differently after you've used them a bit. Not necessarily worse: with a bit of practice, you can lay down a "mist" of ink with thin light hatching (similar to what you can do with a regular ballpoint pen).

Convenient for light values.

The key advantage of fineliners is their portability. Dip pens are a superior options on any other aspects. Brushes too, but harder to handle. There are fountain pens that can handle Indian ink, with nibs allowing some diversity of line width (fude) but expensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyvMIwnWfO4

[Anonymous No.6620189]

>>6619162
You don't have this problem with rapidographs, but you'll have to say goodbye to line variation with those. Although there's next to none of it with fineliners desu.

[Anonymous No.6620469]

>>6620189
not him but I bought one rapidograph, the small blue ones. I sealed the plastic cap a bit too tight, it broke. ink is half dried in there. haven't bothered cleaning it or finding ways to fix it.

dip pens are an overall better tool anyway

[Anonymous No.6620768]

>>6620469
>dip pens are an overall better tool anyway
how long does it take to shift from a fineliner-based workflow to one with a dip pen?
dip pens are cool but the learning curve seems pretty damn steep compared to fineliners and technical pens

[Anonymous No.6620816]

>>6620469
What small blue ones? I hate Rotring ones, never managed to get good flow with them, I managed to buy two Koh I Noor ones and they're great.

[Anonymous No.6620829]

>>6620768
>dip pens are cool but the learning curve seems pretty damn steep compared to fineliners and technical pens
hm, not much, they've always felt rather natural to me. they are a slower tool, so you need to get into the habit of relaxing and taking it slow.

a small bottle of ink (I spilled my first bottle a few days ago btw), a piece of cloth, some water to clean the nib. I like extra fine flexible nibs, really versatile.

sometimes the ink doesn't flow at first, a bit of extra ink or water on the nib gets it going.

some inks stick more than others: use a hog bristle brush and some soap to clean the nib after your session. dry the nib thoroughly so that it doesn't rust.

[Anonymous No.6620830]

>>6620816
this one: https://www.staedtler.com/intl/en/products/technical-drawing-instruments/technical-pens-drawing-ink/mars-matic-700-technical-pen-m700/

[Anonymous No.6620831]

WOWIE oil paints are expensive

[Anonymous No.6620949]

>>6620831
compared to what? most of the price is caused by pigments: the more expensive the pigments, the more pigments in the paint, the more expensive the tube, regardless of the medium

[Anonymous No.6621025]

>>6620830
Had a hunch it was the Mars, those are good, I have a couple, one of them got ruined which was the 03mm. I'm surprised you ruined the cap, they are made with very sturdy plastics, not like the flimsily Rotrings or KIN. Just check on eBay there are some spare parts sold for cheap.

[Anonymous No.6621076]

>>6620469
The plastic used in rapidograph manufacturing is bad. But if it broke like that then you were too rough with it. You aren't supposed to do what you did with them. It takes a bit of a learning curve but they are fine as lng as you are very careful with them.

>>6620768
It's pretty fast I think. Always draw away from your body and try to clean them every time you use them. That's about it I'd say.

[Anonymous No.6621438]

>>6621076
>>6621025
Well, I just wanted to make sure the cap was tight enough for the pen not to dry. But I wasn't being particularly forceful either, as far as I remember.

But in the end, for the little I've used it, I've found it to be somewhat limited for art. I guess for technical drawings they must be fantastic thought

[Anonymous No.6621745]

>>6621438
Moebius used them and so did Robert Crumb.

Check aaronhorkey as well, all he uses is Mars tech pen.

[Anonymous No.6621765]

>>6621745
lol my pen is broken in a similar way actually. less intense though; I'll check them out, thanks

[Anonymous No.6621774]

>>6621765
It has a little rubber piece inside the cap, that's where the nib rests, as long as it's making contact with that piece it won't dry.

[Anonymous No.6621803]

>>6621774
ok I see it. looking at it, I actually did bothered cleaning last time, but yeah it's cloaked somehow (doesn't write)

[Anonymous No.6622754]

>>6621745
Moebius used Rotrings and Crumb used Koh I Noors. Makes little to no difference but there's that.

[Anonymous No.6622770]

>>6622754
I meant tech pens in general. I don't like Rotring's, had to import KIN and yes to me they're better even though they both were made in Germany, probably at the same factory but in Europe we always got the short end of the stick.

[Anonymous No.6622830]

>>6622770
They aren't made in Germany. Rotrings are made in Japan and I think KINs are still made in America, but they have taken a huge hit in quality.

BTW, that was made with dip pens.

[Anonymous No.6622955]

>>6622830
I have a KIN and I have trouble getting it to flow, but I'm not sure if that's because I'm using it the wrong way. It's a 0.18 mm. It was working great for a while and then stopped cooperating.

[Anonymous No.6622995]

>>6622955
.18 are difficult to work with. And it also might be a bit too small for it to work properly... I'd recommend a .2 at the very least. .35 seems ideal (it's the size Crumb used). It's equivalent to a .5 felt tip.

[Anonymous No.6623011]

>>6622830
The good ones were made in Germany in the 80's and 90's and sent to New Jersey, the modern ones have bad label imprints, like if it they were a chinese counterfeit see pic, don't get this.
KIN in the States didn't make anything, their leadholders were made in Italy, the ink and pens in Germany, they just made the packages.

>>6622955
Try different inks, some flow better than others, the 0.18 mm is game over, you can't open and clean it because the metal needle is too thin.

I also recommend the 0.35 mm it's the gray one, it's what I have and it's great.

[Anonymous No.6623285]

>>6623011
That's exactly what the label on mine looks like, thought it was odd considering that the pen was not cheap. I think I paid like thirty or forty CAD for it at an art supply store.

[Anonymous No.6623435]

>>6623011
>>6623285

Regardless, KINs have this system where you can feed ink directly to the reservoir, like an isograph. It's better than a rotring rapidograph, where you have to use a syringe to fill up the cartridge. Rotring discontinued the entire rapidograph line though.

[Anonymous No.6623537]

>>6623285
Just get a cheap used pack on eBay if you still want to use tech pens, I like them to complement my inking nibs. Fineliners are too fuzzy for my taste.

[Anonymous No.6623575]

>>6623537
If you want to get a cheap used pack you'll have to deal with broken, clogged or otherwise mistreated pens. Nothing a good maintenance can't fix, but still. For some reason, brand new KINs are more expensive than brand new Rotrings.

[Anonymous No.6625511]

Let's bump this mf

[Anonymous No.6625839]

I've been using my rotring 300 mechanical pencils and i really feel like there's no point in trying the more expensive ones

[Anonymous No.6626107]

i recently purchased a blackwing palomino 602 and it's the smoothest most comfy pencil i've ever tried, i've had faber castells, mars lumographs and derwent but there's something in the blackwing pencil that others don't have, it feels smoother? idk it's just neat.

[Anonymous No.6626518]

>>6620768
A good maru nibs basically feel the same as a fineliner imo. G nib is more versatile though. I suggest trying both to see which one is suitable. Tachikawa brand is a good brand for both nibs

[Anonymous No.6626999]

just bought a box of 36 Sakura microns for €37 on amazon.

Also got some Tombow Fudenosuke ( 1 soft and 1 hard tip ) + pentel brush pen + ink to refill these niggas.

lets see how long the tips last.

[Anonymous No.6627057]

>>6626999
>Tombow Fudenosuke
Nifty little tools

> pentel brush pen + ink to refill these niggas
tip for the ink, use a syringe to refill the cartridge. cheaper. I can go for months without using the brush pen, and it doesn't dry/cloak, even refilled as such.

[Anonymous No.6627235]

>>6626999
>box of 36 Sakura microns
Why though? Just buy them one by one. They'll last practically forever. I'm sure most of them will dry out before you use like a fifth of the box.

[Anonymous No.6627308]

>>6625839
The 600 is legit just a worse Graphgear 500.

[Anonymous No.6627322]

>>6622830
Funny how Rotring went to utter shit with the move to Japan, but Staedtler improved drastically thanks to It.

[Anonymous No.6627346]

>>6627308
The 600's just not worth it. Or any heavier pencil for that matter. There's simply anything that a good old P200 won't do.

>>6627322
Staedtler covers more areas more effectively. They have a hold on general stationery, while Rotring still has the whole designers and architect niche covered.

[Anonymous No.6627428]

>>6627308
based, the graphgear 500 is the best mech pencil ever made that isn't actually a lead holder

[Anonymous No.6627583]

>>6627346
It's not just the catalog but the products themselves. I have german lumograph leads and japanese lumograph leads. And the japanese are more pigmented, less brittle and hold a point longer.

Meanwhile my 16yo german tikki is holding up much better than my gf's 2yojapanese 600.

[Anonymous No.6627722]

>>6627235
It was cheap at almost (€1 per fineliner).

Its way cheaper than buying a pack of 6 which is sold at around €15. But you are right tho.

I could probably sell it for profit desu and go for something with a more durable nib ( like copic SP's)

[Anonymous No.6627769]

>>6627235
>They'll last practically forever
maybe if you don't actually use them they will

[Anonymous No.6628037]

>>6627722
Copic SP's nibs are not more durable than a Micron's. In fact they are quite shit. Remember they are made to be replaced constantly. The SP is simply not worth it and the ink is decidedly worse than both a Micron and a normal Copic.

[Anonymous No.6629106]

>>6627583
Asian leads tend to be softer and darker, though. EVen in HB.

[Anonymous No.6629357]

Best stick eraser? Are electric erasers worth it?

[Anonymous No.6629376]

the are meme and wasteful
just get one that you feel comfortable getting refills for.

[Anonymous No.6629414]

>>6629376
well what should I use instead

[Anonymous No.6629500]

>>6629357
Mono, but expensive. Kneaded erasers, not as potent. A combination of both usually gets you going

[Anonymous No.6629516]

>>6627308
>>6627346
I love my graph 600

[Anonymous No.6629701]

>>6629357
I have a Staedtler battery eraser, I like it but you can't buy this model anymore. I don't know what electric erasers you can buy now but I wouldn't spend more than 20 bucks for one.

[Anonymous No.6632319]

Trying to make skin tone with gel pens. I think maybe I want ballpoint instead.
Recommend me a good source for colored ballpoint? I don't want to buy the whole set just for the colors I want.

[Anonymous No.6632756]

>>6632319
FWIW, ballpoint pen are impermanent

[Anonymous No.6633094]

>>6632756
I don't think anyone's going to look at my beg shit in twenty years, but thanks for the heads up.
I made another attempt after watching a Frank Cho video on an anon's recommendation. I think I need a straight edge and not to use pencil for the first layer.

[Anonymous No.6633126]

>>6633094
The skin tone reads OK, but the cross-hatching itself is not a great approach to render skin, especially woman skin.

It feels hairy.

Try to hatch in a single direction, and to tapper your strokes

[Anonymous No.6633573]

>>6633126
I'm going to use a straight edge and take my time with it. I got to do a better drawing first. I'm /beg/ so the pencil sketch is taking forever and I won't even get to that part for a while now, certainly not today. Thanks for pointing this out, tho.

[Anonymous No.6633606]

>>6632319
Don't use those Sta fineliners, they aren't just Staedlers rebranded

[Anonymous No.6633628]

>>6632319
Frank Cho uses the cheapest Bics you can find, so go for that. More than the tool, is the fact that ballpoint pens are pressure sensitive and can be used pretty much like pencils.

[Anonymous No.6633787]

>>6633628
It's going to have to wait. I'm going to try this hatching with gels first, mainly because I don't want to do monochrome.
I'll do a separate project with cheap bic pens later. I got a bunch of red cristals and I might order some other colors maybe.
I had to mow the lawn and check on dinner, but I managed to finish a pencil sketch.
>>6633606
I've had those for like a year. I just used them to test them. I'll probably use the pilot pens to outline as well. Or I cold use a fountain pen.
Anyway, here's my sketch. It looks kinda funky because the dark parts are just outlined, not filled in. Fun what I could see this seems to be what Frank was doing (but better, obviously. )
I won't start until after work tomorrow, so if you guys see something wrong let me know.

[Anonymous No.6633822]

>>6633787
have you read his book on how to draw women? It's pretty good, but I have to warn you he won't teach you shit. It starts by assuming you're at least at an intermediate level. But other than that it's an excellent resource to have if you love his art.

Sta fineliners don't have all the qualities that Staedtler pens do, most importantly stuff like archival quality and them being water resistant.

[Anonymous No.6633827]

>>6633822
No, I hadn't heard of him until last night when someone said if I want to hatch women in pen he was the guy. I watched a couple videos of his and an going to try it.

[Anonymous No.6634002]

>>6629516
Pentel is just that good.

[Anonymous No.6634244]

>>6629357

Derwent electrical eraser with usb charger is my go-to, it comes with two sizes, a bigger and smaller eraser. if you do a lot of heavy rendering in pencil then an electrical eraser can't be beat imo, but if you don't you can probably get by with a normal eraser. The tombow monos like another anon said are nice to have too but are a little less effective sometimes but good to have.

[Anonymous No.6634985]

This really doesn't work with gel pens. You can't draw light enough.

I've been looking for ballpoint pens in brown and yellow and I can't find them unless you buy a whole set for one of each, and even then the reviews say they might not send all the colors.
If I have to spend $16 for one or two colors, this defeats the purpose of pen art. For that price I can buy colored pencils cheaper.

[Anonymous No.6634992]

>>6634985
Just ditch gel pens. They are pretty shit for drawing desu, they run out of ink fast and the ink itself is crap. Just but a ten pack of bics or whatever and practice. Be it blue or black, or even red, it doesn't matter, just try to get the basics and work your way from there.

[Anonymous No.6634998]

>>6634992
I want to learn photo realistic color. The monochrome thing is cool, but I love the tones.
I guess I can practice the technique monochrome and when I'm better I can justify $16 to buy a set for two colors. Bic sells everything cheap except brown and yellow. You really need those colors for skin.

[Anonymous No.6635303]

>>6634998
But why don't you get colored pencils instead? Gel pens are probably the worst thing you can use to color

[Anonymous No.6635327]

>>6634985
Can't you get orange and brown papermate inkjoys for cents at any office depot?

[Anonymous No.6635556]

>>6635327
Inkjoy are gel.
>>6635303
Sharpening is annoying.

[Anonymous No.6635563]

are paints really that toxic?? do i have to open my windo always?

[Anonymous No.6635594]

>>6635563
>paints
only cadmiums and leads, and it's exaggerated.
>open window
only if you're using turpentine, turpenoids, mineral spirits, or even spike oil probably. it's possible to paint without them. using solvents extensively throughout painting is a relatively recent practice

[Anonymous No.6635671]

>>6635563
> are paints really that toxic??
no. some pigments are toxic, when you eat them, or frequently wash your whole hands and face with paint.

most paint are essentially pigment + binder. lots of pigments are stuff like literal rust, and binders are things like gum Arabic or oils, which both are edible (more or less, but you get the idea).

>do i have to open my windo always?
as the other guy mentioned, if you're using (oil) solvent (turpentine, petroleum, etc.), yes, you'll almost definitely want to, at least because of the smell.

frequently inhaling such solvent in a non-ventilated area can cause issues, the gravity of which will depends on the person.

[Anonymous No.6635885]

I draw a lot of black and white pattern art but I want to try implementing color. What would be the best medium for someone who isn't much of a painter? and preferably doesn't look too cheap? (if you have different methods of painting, specific brands etc that is cool.)

[Anonymous No.6635890]

>>6635885
gouache would be the most versatile. you can try buying a small tube of brown, and synthetic brush, and get a feel for it monochromatically first. if it fits, buy a few more tubes. take the time to learn to mix colors instead of buying over 9000 tubes

> doesn't look too cheap
you can make something look cheap with expensive paint, and make something looking pretty with cheap paint. it's a matter of technique

[Anonymous No.6635911]

>>6635890
thanks will check it out. By "cheap" I mean I guess I have some fear of how things like colored pencil or marker would look

[Anonymous No.6635923]

>>6635911
>By "cheap" I mean I guess I have some fear of how things like colored pencil or marker would look
both colored pencil and marker look far from cheap in the hands of someone that knows what they're doing

[Anonymous No.6635925]

>>6635885
tinted paper. drawing with a different color media or in addition to black. highlights

[Anonymous No.6636129]

let me guess, you NEED more?

[Anonymous No.6636147]

>>6635911
I'm not sure I'd recommend colored pencil or markers. Colored pencils are tedious, and markers are somehow limited in use.

But as the other anon pointed, you can get fantastic, professional looking stuff with it. Markers are often used by designers (look around), who can easily prototypes objects in a few minutes, in an appealing way

[Anonymous No.6636330]

>>6635911
>colored pencil
Let me save you a lot of bother. If you're a beginner, buy this
https://www.amazon.com/Faber-Castell-Creative-Goldfaber-Watercolor-Pencils/dp/B074GXNK3S/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=3W1YRUW7V9J5M&keywords=watercolor+pencils+set&qid=1683059073&refinements=p_89%3AFaber-Castell&rnid=2528832011&s=arts-crafts&sprefix=watercolor+pencil%2Caps%2C224&sr=1-17
And a water brush pen.
The goldfaber 24 for $20 is the sweet spot for value. You don't need more colors as a noob, you don't need lightfast because the stuff you make now will be garbage in six months when you're significantly better at what you're doing (pic related,) and you use the watercolor set so you can blend with water and don't have to buy and store spirits, plus you can refill your water brush pen anywhere.

[Anonymous No.6636343]

>>6635911
Also, I should have added that PAPER is a much bigger factor for quality, especially for pencils. That's where the money goes, and you can try to practice on cheaper paper, but you will just end up frustrated because trying the techniques you see online on cheap paper is a waste of time. The shit will never blend properly no matter what method you use.

[Anonymous No.6636370]

>>6636330
Just to propose a counter-opinion: I bought a bunch of watercolor pencils when I started a few years ago; I barely used them, and I'm slowly starting to use them a little, for colorful monochrome studies, because it works nicely with a water brush.

On the other hand, I've burnt through a few tubes/cakes of watercolor/gouache, and will for a while (great medium)

[Anonymous No.6636437]

>>6636129
protip: you don't.
But I admit those in 2b would be nice.

[Anonymous No.6636533]

>>6636437
I like mechanical pencils because I hate sharpening.
I like erasers too because I'm bad at drawing.

[Anonymous No.6636719]

>>6636533
you don't have to sharpen a wooden pencil that often, though. And ticonderogas have an eraser (just like mech pencils do, tbf).

By the way, stop pressing that hard.

[Anonymous No.6636734]

>>6564278
> brush pen pours out too much ink on random days
> fountain pen has a sweet spot and have to shake it periodically
> v5 pilot just sucks dick
> gpen sucks the biggest dick, scratchy, constantly dip, have to clean it, just a pile of shit that literally doesn't work no matter what I do or how I clean it, not sure if it's speedball ink or what.
>black crayon would be perfect if I had it in a smaller size
why are trad tools so fucking gay

[Anonymous No.6636750]

>>6636734
skill issue unironically. As per the previous post, you are probably handling them too roughly. Also, pass that g pen through a lighter for like 3 seconds and then try again.

[Anonymous No.6636753]

>>6568913
>fountain pens are high maintenance
> get dip pens
what the fuck nigga lmao? literally just wash a fountain pen every few months in water, a dip pen requires constant dipping and cleaning everytime you use it, can't just take it out and do a quick doodle while you're waiting for something, it's an entire ordeal, open the ink bottle, dip, don't get ink everywhere, clean it at the end, that's why the made fountain pens for convenience.

[Anonymous No.6636761]

>>6636750
you don't know what you're talking about, It doesn't matter how light I use the brush pen, the lightest possible stroke will pour out an ink blob, and I used a lighter on gpen, used potato, used dish soap everything under the sun still doesn't work right.

[Anonymous No.6636772]

>>6636753
now if only made fountain pen inks that didn't suck ass

[Anonymous No.6637335]

>>6636772
??????? there are tons of inks that dont suck what are you talking about.

Bet this nigga use india ink on his fountain pen.

[Anonymous No.6637401]

>>6635671
>>6635594
got it, but how can i make oil paint flowy without solvents? would i consume paint faster without deluting it

[Anonymous No.6637527]

>>6636734
>why are trad tools so fucking gay
For the most part, they aren't. It's just that you're too used to things being overly optimized, quick and effortless. Remember that etymologically, "art" share a root with "artisan", and are (etymologically) heavily tied to the idea of technique.

That's one reason fine-art really is difficult: you need to learn to balance a hefty amount of material complexity.

>It doesn't matter how light I use the brush pen, the lightest possible stroke will pour out an ink blob
Observe the brush pen: the blob doesn't happen immediately, you should be able to see it coming. Temperature may alter pressure, thus altering the ink flow. Those modern tools are still very young: brushes OTOH are literally centuries old technology, they don't have that kind of issues, but still require some amount of care (e.g. frequent wash, avoid ink going up to the ferule).

>and I used a lighter on gpen, used potato, used dish soap everything under the sun still doesn't work right.
FWIW, last nibs I bought worked out of the box without the need for an extra-step. Those that I've lightly burnt earlier have flowing issues.

>>6637401
For most artist brands, out-of-the tube paint is almost always flowy enough. You can make it thinner with, well, oil, which guess what, is a solvent for oil! But turp/petroleum & cie not just dilute the pain, but they also help it "dries" faster.

If you add more oil, it'll flow more, but also takes more time to "dry".

It also depends upon the surface & surface preparation: paint flows easily on very smooth surface such as gesso coated wood, but not as easily on canvas.

>would i consume paint faster without deluting it
The paint would simply have a different consistency. You'd also be altering the opacity level, which will be different depending on the pigments. You really need to take the time to test your paint in different circumstances, to understand its mechanics, before attempting to use it.

[Anonymous No.6637758]

>>6620831
just use the Zorn pallet + a ultramarine blue and you are golden bro.

[Anonymous No.6637850]

>>6636734
>v5 pilot just sucks dick
those are writing pens, anon. that's what they're really good at

[Anonymous No.6638130]

>>6636719
>stop pressing that hard
Why? I want the outline dark. Or do you mean in general?
I tried a lighter hand today, I didn't see much difference.

[Anonymous No.6638144]

>>6636734
I tossed my speedball shit and bought proper nip shit off Amazon. Those "G" nibs are a meme.
What exactly are you trying to do?

[Anonymous No.6638376]

are dip pens worth or should I just stick to Microns?

[Anonymous No.6638402]

>>6638376
Not as a replacement for microns. That's like saying is a panini press worth it or should I stick to my toaster. Totally different thing with similar but distinct results.

[Anonymous No.6638429]

>>6638376
get one of these bad boys, some noodler's black ink and see if you like it
could definitely be worth the learning curve if you're burning through fineliners and want something with more intuitive line weight variation, the main advantage of fineliners is portability while the main advantage of dip pens is everything else

[Anonymous No.6638983]

>>6637527
good advice
>>6638130
pressung hard leads to repetitive strain injury

[Anonymous No.6639858]

>>6638983
Oh, okay. I'll try to keep it loose. Thanks!
Today's work in progress...
I did more erasing than drawing.