/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6462160]

>nsfw art
>lewd art
>erotic art

It's porn, you're drawing porn.

While you might be expressing yourself with it and since technically anything can be art you can call it art but the reason why people look at it is because they want to jerk off.

If you make porn movies in miami and call yourself a film director people would just laugh at you.

Porn is not art, it does not have the same function as art.

What's the deal with this pprn obsession among people who draw anyways?

[Anonymous No.6462173]

It's called TASTEFUL NUDES

[Anonymous No.6462203]

False dichotomy
Who or what says that porn is not a form of art? Is it really just the audience's engagement with it? If i jack off to a Zorn or Bouguereau is it really no longer art? What if the artist only intended to make porn and I approach it purely academically.
Any expression has artistic integrity, get real

[Anonymous No.6462207]

>>6462203
Porn is creatively and artistically worthless and people who draw porn are low tier artists like pornstars to actors and strippers to dancers

It might be art but it's the lowest form of it, I'm pretty sure if a poll was done the majority of people would say that a tasteful nude of spongebob gettimg rammed in the ass by donald duck has no artistic value

[Anonymous No.6462221]

you're indirectly making dudes cum lmao

[Anonymous No.6462226]

>>6462160
based

>>6462221
late stage coomers don't care about barriers anymore

[Anonymous No.6462236]

>>6462203
>What if the artist only intended to make porn and I approach it purely academically.
You can approach anything academically, but it still won't make it not what it actually is.

And since you want to approach it academically, you should start asking critical questions:
>What is the picture illustrating?
>What is the reason of existence of the picture?
>Does the picture objectively have any other message/artistic expressions besides what it is visually portraying and appealing to?

It is fine if one draws porn for a living, but it is nothing more than kitsch and a service; the purpose of erotic imagery is to appeal to and engage with the most basic instincts.
It is art only visually and practically, but artistically it is not real art, it is a consumer product.

[Anonymous No.6462279]

>>6462207
>can't appreciate a good pole dance
Shows what you know.
https://youtu.be/Q2jZ5oI1DmQ

[Anonymous No.6462338]

>>6462160
>Porn is not art, it does not have the same function as art.
Like everything else there's grey areas.
Robert Crumb is a good example. Much of his work could be considered pornographic, but it has artistic merit. I consider him one of the greatest artists of the 20th century (and critics like Robert Hughes agree).
There are other examples in art & literature: books by Henry Miller and William Burroughs, Ukiyo-e prints, Egon Schiele, Gustave Courbet's "L'Origine du monde" (look it up).
Just because you can jack off to it doesn't mean it's not art.

[Anonymous No.6462343]

>>6462160
stop taking away my language ingsoc tardfuck

[Anonymous No.6462348]

It's important to NOT call your nsfw art - porn. Actual porn and nsfw drawings are two different things. For example nsfw art is fine on Patreon but not porn.

[Anonymous No.6462368]

>>6462338
Exceptions don't make the rule.
Yes, Crumb has artistic merit because his pornographic work isn't the main focus but rather it accompanies and illustrates the stories he tells, thus has artistic merit because it isn't meant to just be porn for the sake of porn. The artwork is and becomes secondary to the story.
>Just because you can jack off to it doesn't mean it's not art.
That is still not the point.
There is a clear distinction to be made between art for the sake of consumption and art for the sake of illustrating.
Porn, lewds or nsfw art in general, are mostly visual illustrations made solely for the sake and purpose of consumption, thus hold no real artistic merit and can never be genuinely and reasonably argued otherwise.

[Anonymous No.6462377]

>>6462207
>Porn is creatively and artistically worthless
source: your opinion
what does artistic value mean to you? is it based on the majority's sense of decency?
>>6462236
>it still won't make it not what it actually is
what is it actually? it's whatever subject printed on whatever medium, lines on a 2d plane etc. do you think there is some transcendent defining feature of art? i don't know what your definition of art is, would you also call Leyendeckers magazine covers a kitsch and a service? they were made for commercial purposes as a consumer product. if so, then at least your consistent, but if not then you are stepping around creating a solid defintion of art in order to be the arbiter of what is and what is not deserving of a perception of merit and prestige that is connotated by the word 'art'

[SAGE No.6462383]

puritan opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.6462391]

porn art > other "art"

[Anonymous No.6462396]

>>6462377
>do you think there is some transcendent defining feature of art?
My personal opinions or thoughts hold no relevance, but yes, there is something beyond lines on a paper or pretty pictures that makes a piece of artwork transcend the physical realm of lines on a paper.
If you firmly believe that art is only what it portrays, then you need to spend more time meditating on artistic expression as a whole.
>leyendecker covers
They might be pretty pictures but they barely hold any artistic value or merit.
Their purpose was to illustrate a product.
Porn falls in the same category; it is trying to sell itself to you by pandering to the lowest common denominator, hence it can never hold any artistic merit or value besides technical skill.
Do you watch porn for the plot or for the sex scenes?

[Anonymous No.6462464]

>>6462396
I look at hentai/clop/yiff occasionally without the intent of touching myself, because I value the artwork beyond it being fap material. Not all of us are teenage coombrains who fap all day every day. Some of us are mature men who browse NSFW art alongside SFW art and value them equally in terms of aesthetic value.

Also you have to be 18 to post here.

[Anonymous No.6462512]

Cinema isn't art tho

[Anonymous No.6463087]

>>6462464
Cringe

You're definitely a porn artist, no doubt

The society doesn't consider you an artist, your followers consider you a porn source/fap bank.

If you ever applied for a real job in the art industry with the prn you've drawn that would get you instantly rejected.

That's the truth.

Porn is just characters doing poses and the function of the drawing is to induce hornyness and appeal to the sexual desires of mostly repressed coomers.

[Anonymous No.6463095]

>>6463087
You have replied to bait, Anon.
Or that fag is just actually not worth talking to because he is mentally ill and has no actual interest in the discussion besides trying to reaffirm and validate his own beliefs/identity.

[Anonymous No.6463150]

>>6463095
Porn artists are really like this, they live in an endless cycle of cope trying to convince themselves that their art has any value when in reality it doesn't.
I don't actually care about whether I can convince this loser that nobody actually cares about their porn drawings, the fact is that many people are reading this conversation and this might make them rethink, especially for beginners.

I've spoken to many porn artists and they seem to claim that the reason why they started drawing porn in the first place was because people asked them to and they got paid for it, a lot of artists are wasting their time and skill on this nonsense for easy money and ideas because porn doesn't require you to think creatively as it's just different poses and fetishes illustrated.

Also there seems to be a pattern of porn artists being stuck in a cycle wanting to break out by making actual art but it never works because all their followers care about is porn so these attempts keep failing, also they tend to have zero creative skills because drawing porn only trains technical skills in drawing figures but leaves out all other art skill types to beginner level so they're not capable of producung good art when they want to so they keep falling back into the easy money cycle.

Of course you also have these porn addict losers who learned how to draw just to make porn but these types are usually groomers, mentally ill people, incels, loners and pedos who hang around here, not naming any names but I'm referring to several people on this board

These people spend their days jerking off, parasocializing on discord and drawing.
The meme about ypu will eat the bugz, you will live in ze pod and you will be hapy is the life of these losers, they live in constant stimulation and prove absolutely no impact to the society because they don't actually do anything.
It's not culture, it's degeneracy, the two worst things affecting the art world right now are modern art and the excess of porn

[Anonymous No.6463179]

>>6463150
Indeed, your observations align completely with what i myself observed throughout the years.

Anything i might add would be just senseless circlejerking.

[Anonymous No.6463199]

>What's the deal with this pprn obsession among people who draw anyways?
Porn is fun. Everyone likes it. If you have a drawing ability it's inevitable you will at times indulge in porn drawing. Artists have done it throughout history. But yes, it isn't really what good art is about and no one in the real world (read: out there, beyond the confines of one's room) is going to take an artist seriously who only ever draws porn.

[Anonymous No.6463202]

>>6462160
>gatekeeping what art is
How very insecure of you anon.

[Anonymous No.6463208]

>>6463150
>the two worst things affecting the art world right now are modern art and the excess of porn
I like both of those things though.

[Anonymous No.6463292]

>>6462377
>what does artistic value mean to you? is it based on the majority's sense of decency

It has nothing to do with decency, clockwork orange is art because it discusses issues related to sex and violence but it makes no effort to give the narrative any erotic boost by showing sex as it's not necessary.

It doesn't leave out the sex for the sake of decency, it does it because if it was shown it would be sexually stimulating in itself which would sidetrack the point of the whole movie.

Sex is a common sibject in art and when the narrative around it is good enough, showing it will reduce its artistic value which why stories that revolve around sex but aren't trying ti sell themselves as porn restrict how much they're showing.

If you have a hentai drawing of a character getting tit fucked on a bed and you remove the sex it has zero value, then it's just a drawing of two characters doing nothing and it means nothing.

If you take a renaissance painting that depicts something sexual and has nudity that focuses on the beauty of human body amd it's part of a movement that is aiming to take back lost culture and wisdom of the ancient masters, you can hide the nudity and it still has a lot of artistic value left because it's not porn, it's art.

[Anonymous No.6463302]

Erotica does have more value than porn since it should give you more than just fleeting feelings of sex, even if the end result is to get you off you'll probably get off harder if the characters, story or intimacy between said characters has some substance.

All erotica and porn exists to get you off but I prefer erotica because there is more to sex than just the act alone.

[Anonymous No.6463364]

>OP's endgame was to shit on porn artists and gatekeep the concepts of art by using *baseless opinions* he got out of his ass and a ""discussion"" as proxy
Due to elements beyond the objective aspects of discussion and logical statement, your discussion and thesis have no merit or value and, therefore, it's worthless. Furthermore, your behaviour have proven to fit the common criteria of "OP" inidviduals that are consider a "faggot".
>Sincerely: A SFW artist who also shits on NSFW artists who dont bother to put any value to their ART.

[Anonymous No.6463365]

porn "artists" remind me of Only Fans "models"

[Anonymous No.6463379]

The sooner you understand porn "artists" are prostitutes, the sooner you can move on and refuse to discuss with these "people".

>>6463150
>Porn artists are really like this, they live in an endless cycle of cope trying to convince themselves that their art has any value when in reality it doesn't.
That's exactly how prostitutes (also called "porn actresses") behave publicly, talking about previous works and how they "empowered" them or some other bullshit to cope.

The same way prostitutes will sugarcoat their activities by calling it sex "work", a woman (because a prostitute can only be female in mind and spirit) will come up with all sorts of euphemisms for her e-prostitution drawings, and slap "art" at the end of it to cement the deception: NSFW art, lewd art, explicit art, 18+ art, spicy, kinky, pr0n, naughty, pin-up, sexy, erotic, what-have-you.

Sad!

[Anonymous No.6463542]

>>6462279
>ukraine
of course

[Anonymous No.6463704]

>>6462207
>Porn is creatively and artistically worthless
False. Worthless implies a net neutral impact. If it was, there wouldn't be a problem and "puritan" would be the end of the discussion. People think affluence creates soibois, but that doesn't account for the very hardworking and sharp individuals out there, including from wealthy families. The fact is porn and associated vices are part of a self-blackpilled ultimate cynicism. Porn/hedonism creates soibois/npcs.

[Anonymous No.6463766]

collective lust creates revenue

there. these four words explain why these artists draw tits

[Anonymous No.6463858]

>>6463150
>got paid for it
>wasting their time and skill
not everyone is the prince of wales; most people sell their time and skill to make ends meet

[Anonymous No.6464353]

>>6463858
>not everyone is the prince of wales
That doesn't matter. Being the king of Spain on the other hand might not hurt :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OF3JfiexLVA

[Anonymous No.6464538]

>>6462160
> It's porn, you're drawing porn.
Who gives a shit?

[Anonymous No.6464540]

>>6462279
What is it with Ukrainian women and being great whores?
Every time I see someone recommending good escort services
>Ukrainian
Every Cute but also hot porn model
>Ukrainian

[Anonymous No.6464544]

>>6462160
Artist cant say "porn" on social media because they can get shadow banned.

[Anonymous No.6464548]

If you got rid of porn, society would fucking collapse.

There is no other commodity so blatantly disrespected yet so strongly desired by consumers, it's such a bizarre phenomena

[Anonymous No.6464564]

>>6464548
>this is what coomers and porn addicts want to believe

we came a pretty long way since cavemen days without porn, you know? back when people can look eachother in the eyes and fuck without stuttering you retarded zoomer.

people used to use their imagination and/or actually fuck people. even rape has its merit because it made men go out and do fucking something instead of jacking off to a picture like a low iq genetic dead end. genghis khan literally raped thousands and he’s a fucking legend with his legacy still living to this day.

[Anonymous No.6464567]

It's a fun way to practice anatomy

[Anonymous No.6464610]

>>6462160
Incel opinion thread

[Anonymous No.6464625]

Does this world know bigger bitter shitters than SFW retards? The world may never know....

[Anonymous No.6464679]

Yeah and video games ain't art either.

[Anonymous No.6464816]

>>6464625
Yes, fags who can't face any objective fact or else they might kill themselves.

[Anonymous No.6464862]

bunch of stupid puritans mad at a bunch of stupid horny fucks.
As someone who draws porn. I don't give a fuck if it is art. Drawing is quite enjoyable, and learning it as a skill has been one of my favorite pass times. Art is either low effort or useless shit, that can be used to launder money according to the west anyways. Drawing is more fun than hanging up a white canvas or taping a banana to a wall.

[Anonymous No.6464927]

>>6464625
Not even SFW retards, I am a SFW retard and the only two things I complain about NSFW are when artists go the extra mile on degeneracy to a disgusting level and when they dont add much substance to their works outside the basic element (and I can say the same about SFW artists as well). I do have my complains, but I wouldnt go as far and say "durr you are not real artists!!" because that is retarded. Art is about craftsmanship, meaning and purpose. SFW and NSFW alike check those boxes.

These people who are constantly seething over coom artists are a weird bunch that cant be quite labeled as something specific.
SFW artists? Not quite, not everyone thinks like that... if this seething is common among SFW artist, that is beyond me and it's more of an envious mindset than anything else.
Puritans? On 4chan of all places? that is ridiculous.
Envious nobodies? Most probably, there's the common opinion of "drawing coom is the easy way to get feedback/money" and these people may be angry they cant make as much with their stuff and/or coom artists are getting all the attention.
Im leaning to believe people who think coom art is the way to go and are envious of others' "easy feedback" are the ones seething this hard, anyone else doesnt sound right to me.

[Anonymous No.6465002]

you can just say you're jealous that NSFW art makes money and your shitty oc doodles dont and move on

[Anonymous No.6465111]

>>6464567
this
>>6464548
No it wouldn't, people would just masturbate to their fantasies , wet dreams and what not , that or they would have sex (or atl east try harder).

The only problems that might occur is if this is done by an authoritarian goverment instead of it just dying off naturally. But the problem isn't really the "no porn" as much as the authoritarianism you needed to ban it and enforce the ban in the first place.

(Unless I am missing something that makes modern soceity unable to function without porn , but managed it pretty well for most of human history)

>>6463292
>If you have a hentai drawing of a character getting tit fucked on a bed and you remove the sex it has zero value, then it's just a drawing of two characters doing nothing and it means nothing.
Is like saying
>If you have a drawing of two people fighting , and you remove the fighting it has zero value, then it's just a drawing of two characters doing nothing and it means nothing.

No fucking shit , you just removed what the drawing was about in the first place (sex and fighting these 2 particular cases)
Just make them do something else , its not either "they have sex" or "they stand in a T-pose doing nothing" ,
If you took [pic related] and removed the naked woman , would it gain artistic value from not being erotic or would it "mean nothing"? What if you instead dressed her up a bit and had her do something else like draw or observe a cool looking bug on the ground idk.

[Anonymous No.6465114]

>>6464816
I like how they post a dogshit drawing as “proof” that they’re not a “failed jealous artist.”

Like m8 you’re just a dumb asshole. You being bad at art is just supplemental.

[Anonymous No.6465139]

>>6463150
i literally have an industry job tho, hell its not even a "ooh only some weirdos slip thru the cracks!!" look at jay axer, nesskain, liger inuzuka, people designing and illustrating for some of the most popular franchise of today just post straight wank material into their account, unless you want to argue all the furry foot fetish stuff in jay axer's page has some deeper storytelling merit

[Anonymous No.6465781]

>>6464816
Holy shit this is incredibly sloppy and proved nothing lmao

[Anonymous No.6466193]

>>6464548
AI anime pinups sre the shit killing society, bud. Go outside and touch a real woman.

[Anonymous No.6466197]

You

All

Will

Die

As

Genetic

Dead

Ends

https://youtu.be/sxm2aMq-3Zk

The people you trust

Want

(you)

To

Kill

Your

Self

The future is judging you

[Anonymous No.6466205]

>>6462160
I would really love to see your work OP. I wonder what your high tier meaningful 4rT looks like.
Here's mine.

[Anonymous No.6466215]

why is it so hard for people to understand that normal sfw artists or people in general just don’t want fetishes and sex being pushed into our faces all the time?

it’s like how fags and troons keep parading around about their bedroom lives and make their entire identity around it. no one wants to hear it or think of it.

or the equivalent of some /pol/tard or sjw cunt making some innocent subject about politics, this shit is so annoying. porn especially is over saturated to a point that innocent kid doodles look more appealing because it serves a sense of escapism from the coom brains.

[Anonymous No.6466232]

>>6466215
>why is it so hard for people to understand that normal sfw artists or people in general just don’t want fetishes and sex being pushed into our faces all the time?
Nobody is forcing you to consume that stuff.
If the algorythm on socials keeps spamming you with that stuff, it means that in a way or another are contributing to it.
If you were to consume only sfw all the time and not follow any nsfw content, then it wouldn't get in your way on its own.

[Anonymous No.6466299]

>>6466205
>Based NSFW chad mogging NGMI SFW virgins.
kek

[Anonymous No.6466345]

>>6466205
His dick is the size of her waist! Where is his dick going if he goes for her mouth? It would bust her neck open. Maybe he can tiddy fuk but shit y his dick so big?

[Anonymous No.6466350]

>>6462160
>What's the deal with this pprn obsession among people who draw anyways?
everyone is horny, all the time. the people who says they aren't are sexually repressed and lying about it, thanks to some bullshit puritan ideal being pushed on them through millenia of christian propaganda.

>>6466215
>keep parading around about their bedroom lives
true! i fucking hate when married couples wear rings. we get it, you fuck one person for the rest of your life, just keep it in the bedroom, don't flaunt it in front of the rest of us

[Anonymous No.6466354]

>>6466205
>nsfw artist that makes a living with porn disagrees on the notion that porn isn't art
>posts porn
You would have made a good point if you posted and erotic work that had a meaning beyond just trying to illustrate a sexual act for the sake of aiding the consumer in their solitary acts of self-pleasure.

[Anonymous No.6466355]

>>6466354
I simply asked you to post your work, so that I can evaluate if your disdain for NSFW comes from a relevant point of view, or it's simply your seething over the fact that you can't produce marketable art.
Can I see now?

[Anonymous No.6466356]

>>6466355
You have a conflict of interest, you opinion is not valuable for making an argument for porn, especially since you simply posted porn.
I'm just pointing it out and
I'm not OP, Anon-chan.

[Anonymous No.6466357]

>>6466345
>Focuses on a fetish fantasy instead of pointing out actual objective mistakes, like bad perspective on batman's legs or the dick base being poistioned too high.
I'm sorry but you're gonna have to ask the client why they decided to request that.

[Anonymous No.6466360]

drawing are the only ethical porn

[Anonymous No.6466361]

>>6466356
>I'm not OP
Then, don't reply instead of them maybe?

If you actually want to have a normal conversation...
>>6466354
>>nsfw artist that makes a living with porn disagrees on the notion that porn isn't art
It depends on what you consider art. I call all sorts of visual expression art, since it's justa shorter term instead of using commercial illustration.
I consider my porn to be just that, commercial illustrations. Same thing as any other product I ever created. NSFW or not.

[Anonymous No.6466362]

>>6466360
I like drawn porn as it excludes w*men

[Anonymous No.6466365]

>>6466354
>You would have made a good point if you posted and erotic work that had a meaning beyond just trying to illustrate a sexual act for the sake of aiding the consumer in their solitary acts of self-pleasure.
I think he was trying to make a point that even a pornographic illustration can have better artistic merit than what OP and the likes of him can put together.

[Anonymous No.6466368]

>>6466361
Don't post publicly if you don't want random people to reply.

>"I call all sorts of visual expression art"
Yes, i do not disagree with that, but the "Art" that is meant here in the context of this specific discussion, is not about the loosely used term for visual expressions.
This isn't a discussion about defining words or what anyone thinks what words mean, but about artistic merit and value, as in beyond the simple visual expression but metaphorical, abstract, symbolic meaning and so on.
>>6466365
Technical skill doesn't dictate artistic merit by itself.
A piece by a permabeg can have more or the same artistic merit and value than a piece done by a pro.

In the artistic journey you learn that technical perfection isn't everything in art.

[Anonymous No.6466397]

>>6466368
No matter how you put it, OP has to prove me wrong by posting his art. If he can't draw something with bigger artistic merit than the bland porn I posted, then he can stop trying to sound all high and mighty with his pseudo intelectual gibberish about illustrations having to have profound symbolism in order to even be considered art.

I think the artwork I posted has value. If you think differently, then that's just opinions of two people that disagree with one another -and nothing more-.

[Anonymous No.6466418]

>>6466397
OP is always a fag but no one has to prove anything by posting any work since every respectable critic agrees that for a work to have merit and value beyond technical, it needs to have profound or higher meaning.
Your attempt at trying to get OP to phw can rather be understood as an attempt to humiliate him and derail the conversation.

Objectively, Porn can never be considered art, in the true non-casual sense of the word, if a piece of erotica only exists for the sake of arousal.
>sound high and mighty
He doesn't and the written word can't be heard.
You are having an emotional and irrational response to a logical argument.
>the artwork i posted has value
You are more than free to elaborate and argue for its OBJECTIVE artistic merit, meaning and value that doesn't rely on appeal to the lowest common denominator.

As i observe it, an illustration of wonderwoman lustfully glaring at batman cock wrapped around in the lasso of truth has absolutely no objective higher artistic meaning.
The purpose of that illustration is simply to illustrate the sexual act.
That's not just an "opinion". I'm being as objective as possible to try to make you and anyone else who might read understand.
And whatever i say doesn't need your approval either.

You can never be proven right by arguing with emotions and you can never win this argument by virtue of technical skill, social status or whatever else.
By doing what you're doing you are only embarrassing yourself.

Let's say OP posts his work and someone that in impartial and most objective such as me decides that OP "wins" the dick comparison by having a bigger metaphorical and artistically valuable dick, what then? Are you going to call foul and calling everyone jealous schizo crabs only to end it in " i was just pretending to be retarded to troll the trolls lol lmao pls like and subscribe"? Because that's what you always do when you can't argue anymore.
Be fucking normal for once.

[Anonymous No.6466510]

Tell me if this is porn or not

[Anonymous No.6466726]

>>6466418
PYW debate aside (I can see how you have a good point on that).
I'm arguing the fact that for some people (OP) apparently porn art doesn't have any merit or value whatsoever.

The purpose of art is to produce an emotional reaction in the viewer.
Porn art definitely can do this, it's obvious. However what I'm arguing here is that those reactions don't have to be only tied to arousal.
There can be pure buty in porn too. Obviously that is not the selling point of porn (as in any commercial illustration one could argue), but it is definitely a thing. Or are you denying that?


Take the pic I posted for example.
When I was drawing it my focus wasn't on
>"...to illustrate the sexual act."
my focus was on making her expression as alive and captivating as possible. I wanted to make the viewer feel her lust. I didn't simply want the viewer to "be the witness to a sexual act."

If I actually managed to accomplish my goal is up for debate of course, but if you can't find any correlation with "normal" art, by reading these words, then I guess we simply aren't gonna agree on this, period.

[Anonymous No.6466759]

>>6466726
The thing you don't seem to grasp is that the
>emotional reaction
Has to come from a pure, unadulterated place;
Joy, wonder, curiosity for example are such.
Sexual acts are vulgar in nature, because it is linked with the utmost primal, animalistic instincts.
The purpose of art is not to produce an emotional reaction either, since what the viewer feels is entirely subjective and that makes it an unreliable source of measurement.
Porn does trigger a reaction, but the usual reaction at its core is always sexual arousal.
If someone, subjectively feels something else through porn, that's his own thing but again, subjectivity doesn't mean crap.

Tell me, what kind of merit and value can porn really have?
Can porn ever be an expression of human culture? Illustrate the divine (as in general terms, not strictly religious)? The thing is that the moment that it relies on sexual arousal, it loses any merit it could have.
And if the value and merit it has is how much it is consumed and paid for, again, it has nothing to do with the artistic anymore.
It's like saying that a monochrome square on a canvas is valuable and has artistic merit because it's worth millions.

I have to deny that because a line has been drawn or else beauty and merit would mean nothing anymore, since even a loli getting spitroasted by a pig and a dog could be considered artistically beautiful, valuable and has merit by virtue that people are emotionally invested by it.
>i wanted to make the viewer feel her lust
You aid my argument with this, also because how that work is presented.
You made a sexual work, with the focus being of sexual nature and the presentation being sexual. It is vulgarity, even if not highly graphic.
Your intentions play no role in the evaluation either.

cont.

[Anonymous No.6466769]

Take pic related, "The sin", as an example:
Why would this work be artistically meritable and valuable, even though it illustrates vulgarity?
Because it actually dared to illustrate sin without relying on sexuality = merit
It depicted the highest sin for men and women of faith and pushed the limits of what could be acceptable as a piece of art = critical expression + purpose
Even though the act itself is sexual, it is represented as purely as possible without trying to appeal to the monkey brain.
Of course there were people who jacked off to that, but that don't mean shit.
>but if you can't find any correlation with "normal" art
You're arguing for yourself and by being highly subjective.
I'll say it again; you have a conflict of interest.
If you admit that porn has no real artistic value, you might hurt yourself and your work.
You can't argue objectivity with subjectivity.
>we simply aren't gonna agree on this
Yes, but you're wrong, that's the point.

If you want to believe what you want, more power to you, but don't try to argue objectivity and facts to try and warp reality to suit yourself.
There is no point in even trying to argue then.

[Anonymous No.6466772]

>>6466759
All I get from this is that because you consider sexuality to be vulgar, then the emotions it creates aren't real emotions?
Only >"Joy, wonder, curiosity and such" (which can all be expressed in NSFW imo) are acceptable emotions for art to have value?

If I want to draw a girl that could make the viewer fall in love with her, that doesn't qualify as an attempt at an artwork that has artistic merit, just because there is a sexual act involved?

I'm sorry but I really don't get these notions that vulgarity undermines art and that all porn is vulgar.

[Anonymous No.6466788]

>>6465139
This explains why bith the film and comics industry is going through its shittiest era.

"Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It's produced by humans who can't stand looking at other humans. And that's why the industry is full of otaku!"

Sadly our generation of artists consists mostly of no life losers.

Also

>>6462464
>using porn for learning anatomy

Cringe, no wonder most people are drawing very unrealistic, idealized body types and when it's not ideal it's just fetushy

[Anonymous No.6466790]

>>6466510
It's a boring and worthless illustration which clearly relies on sexual appeal

There's nothing going for it, it's sterile and empty, soulless

[Anonymous No.6466792]

>>6466769
>If you admit that porn has no real artistic value, you might hurt yourself and your work.
Nah. I stated since the start that I don't consider my art to be more than commercial illustrations aimed first and foremost at satisfying my customers.
You can call that sell outism or anything you prefer. Maybe whore, like OP said.
And you can also top that with the fact that it's easier to get marketable with porn vs sfw, because of the lower entry value.

I just don't think things are so black and white as you are trying to depict them (as in lewd = no artistic value, non lewd = art).
For one I personally never stop at "just" trying to satisfy my customers. I try to elevate what they request into a story and bring their characters to life (in general, not just in the instance of a lustful moment). This is why I prefer to draw original characters over fanart. It's more personal, more meaningful, it has more value.

[Anonymous No.6466793]

>>6466205
Post something that has no porn in it and I will

[Anonymous No.6466794]

>>6466792
>lower entry value.
lower entry bar*

[Anonymous No.6466795]

>>6466790
Trying REAL FUCKING HARD not to use the P word, because you know how stupid you’re going to look calling it what it isn’t. Keep sperging and replying, it won’t convince anyone.

[Anonymous No.6466797]

>>6466772
I don't just personally consider it, it is OBJECTIVELY deemed as vulgar, because it appeals to animalistic instincts.
>joy, wonder
I made you a few examples of pure UNADULTERATED emotions.
There is a variety of emotions you can express, but if you put sex in it, its just porn thus vulgar.
>If I want to draw a girl that could make the viewer fall in love with her
Again, subjectivity don't mean shit.
In such cases you want to portray beauty without relying on sex.
>i don't get it
Then stop talking.
I made example and explained.
Reflect some more and study.
>>6466792
I am not making a sfw>nsfw argument.
Sfw art can be as worthless as nsfw, but nsfw is most worthless because of sex.
>I try to....
Again, your intention mean nothing, the end result does.

[Anonymous No.6466800]

>>6466797
>>6466769
And
>inb4
I'm not contradicting myself.
Just read and actually understand the words what they really say.

[Anonymous No.6466805]

>>6466795
Is that your drawing?

You seem pretty emotional

[Anonymous No.6466810]

>>6466795
It's not art

[Anonymous No.6466832]

>>6466797
>Again, your intention mean nothing, the end result does.
Which can be debated.

>>6466797
>Then stop talking.
>I made example and explained.
>Reflect some more and study.
I'll probably just keep disagreeing with you, patronizing anon kun.

>>6466793
The point was to compare my porn without any artistic merit, to something that has it.
Alright. I'll bite.

[Anonymous No.6466835]

>>6466797
>the end result does.
Which can be debated. This is why I think this whole debate is subjective.

>>6466797
>Then stop talking.
>I made example and explained.
>Reflect some more and study.
I'll probably just keep disagreeing with you, patronizing anon kun.

>>6466793
The point was to compare my porn without any artistic merit, to something that has it.
Alright. I'll bite.

[Anonymous No.6466839]

>>6466832
This is my art, I painted this

[Anonymous No.6466845]

>>6466832
>you're patronizing
Fuck off. Seriously.
I have done nothing but try to have a serious conversation and give you plenty of room to actually make a good argument but you don't have the actual IQ to make an honest argument but default on arguing with your feelings and with the fucking voices in your head.

What the do you even want? Getting your work praised by retards because this thread is making you insecure or actually argue to come to a higher truth? You seem to only want to push your ego.

[Anonymous No.6466853]

>>6466845
That to you wasn't a patronizing tone?
You seem to be a bit detached from reality anon.
And it kinda explains your narrow-minded vision of the whole nsfw can't be art debate.

Also, I already predicted we won't come to an agreement.
Simply because you think this debate has an objective truth (yours), while I think it's very much subjective and down to interpretation.

Also. Word of advice. Chill out.

[Anonymous No.6466866]

>>6466835
I can provide and answer to this:
>What is the picture illustrating?
An elf carrying an elf child

But not:
>What is the reason of existence of the picture?
>Does the picture objectively have any other message/artistic expressions besides what it is visually portraying and appealing to?

Also:

>does this art have any cultural or historical significance on any level to any community?

>does this art have any value 25 uears from now?

[Anonymous No.6466867]

>>6466853
>I already predicted
So did i: >>6466418
>"Are you going to call foul and calling everyone jealous schizo crabs only to end it in " i was just pretending to be retarded to troll the trolls lol lmao pls like and subscribe"? Because that's what you always do when you can't argue anymore."
You have nothing and are resorting to dirty tricks, yet again.
Not only that, you didn't even deign yourself to make ONE actual argument; only hollow statements and now accusations about tone of voice. Are you actually mentally unstable?

You have dug your own grave and utterly discredited yourself.
Good job, you only proved actual bad actors that pornfags are indeed insane and you have given them more ammo.

[Anonymous No.6466869]

>nsfw utiliy art with zero storytelling le bad
>sfw utility art with zero storytelling le good

[Anonymous No.6466884]

>>6466788
Miyazaki is a pedo hypocrite tho

[Anonymous No.6466890]

I think there exists a highest ideal. Like making a sword, you beat and hone and polish as many imperfections out as you can. You form it to be balanced, you take scientific care in materials used, to ultimately create something that's both elegant and functional. Rules govern what goes into it. Is it fit to stab? To slash? To parry? Do you want to protect the hand? Is it going to see the ocean where any brasswork might resist corrosion better? People are way more complex and each instinct bears much more examination. And rules apply just the same there, attached to all the same laws of physics as bad metallurgy. I don't think Sasha Grey.txt can be argued with as the highest ideal, and I think the further from that ideal is a simple matter of incorporating more flaws which introduce more problems. Porn being so far removed from the ideal that promoting it could be considered downright hateful at the worst, and simply never fully in good faith at best.

[Anonymous No.6466898]

OP here, since you keep asking I'll post my art.

I designed this poster for a squat project I took part in, we squatted a big old abandoned military building and lived there for some time during winter with the mission of hosting an underground psychedelic rock concert, the first one was in anoher country and it was a success but that's another story.

The poster itself has a distorted version of the building itself.
The strawberries represent the symbol of the town of viljandi which is strawberries, it was adopted from a famous painting from the town called strawberry eaters.

We got together with students of the local cultural academy, I designed this poster based on the ideas by people who were interested in this project

The character playing the guitar is a homage to Gong, a british psychedelic funk band that is a large inspiration for us, the strawberry theme is also partially inspires by our bassist who would sometimes wear a strawberry hat.

The strawberry wizard is a gong inspired character we came up with.

It has a few funny details besides previously mentioned things.

This poster was drawn in the abandoned house.

The text includes quotes of funny reactions to the previous poster.

It doesn't have colours because the only colourized version was deemed not good enough and I was meant to do the colours again before taking it to the printers the concert got cancelled only a couple of weeks before the concert was supposed to take place so the final colourized version was never made.
The people who bought the building had no idea about this and they thought it was cool so they asked the police to take a picture of us in front of the two posters which I gifted them.

A colourized version exists but I consider the original sketch here much better.
I only draw comics, I rarely draw anything unrelated to my comic.

My point here is that art has a purpose and porn is an excuse for creatively lazy and passive people to give context to their drawings

[Anonymous No.6466901]

>>6466898
OP objectively wins.

[Anonymous No.6466902]

lmao

[Anonymous No.6466905]

>>6462160
>the reason why people look at it is because they want to jerk off.
PEOPLE DONT GO TO PRESTIGIOUS ART MUSEUMS AND BEAT THEIR MEAT OR RUB THEIR SLIT TO NUDE SCULPTURE AND NUDE DRAWINGS, U MORON. THIS IS NOT PORN, ITS ART, DO YOU SEE PEOPLE MASTUBRATING TO MICHAELANGELOS DAVID OR BOTECULLIS VENUS, NO YOU DONT, BUT ITS ART, ITS NOT PORN, AHAHAHHA I BTFO U, U MAD, YUP U R,L8R H8R

[Anonymous No.6466907]

>>6466898
Also my point isn't that porn is objectively wrong or that it's immoral or anything like that, about that I don't care, people can draw whatever they want.

But calling soulless commercial products and fap material art is just downgrading to art itself.

Having no standards to what can be calles art is the death of art, in my opinion at least.

[Anonymous No.6466908]

>>6466907
I was meant to write:

Porn is NOT objectively wrong*

[Anonymous No.6466909]

>>6466898
You've got balls, OP. You've got some good artistry in you, i'll tell ya that much.

[Anonymous No.6466916]

Here's the colourized version, it's ugly.

I used some cheap shitty russian pastels I happened to find at some office supply shop in the village.

I ran out of black so the colour choices got unbalanced.

Also too much contrast.

Overall it's really ugly, to me this is a concept and not the actual artwork, the lineart is the closest thing to the actual art piece it was meant to be

[Anonymous No.6466935]

>>6466898
You are a truea artist, yeah. I give you that. I conceede.

[Anonymous No.6466945]

>>6466916

Continued,

This is what I'm working on right now.

The only reason why I consider this artis beacuse it's a comic book page and the artistic context behind it is my writings.

I haven't sketched out the other panels at all yet but just to give an example if I just drew this space station and left the drawing like this at bestit would be just a concept or a drawing with no artistic context.

I could draw anytime I wanted but I choose not to because to call my drawings art I need context.

If you drew a hyperrealistic portrait of a photo of walter white at home to post it online for likes it would not be art.

If you went outside and sat down to spectate life and saw a hobo throw up and getting arrested, even if it looked poorly drawn it would be more artistic than the soulless walter white drawing.

That's my point.

Artistic energy is limited, context is the fuel of art.

We can produce unlimited amounts of drawings but art is limited.

You can never create renaissance art because renaissance happened, it's restricted to its context.
If you made a portraid that was technicay better than renaissance art it would still be worth less since it doesn't have the cultural or historical context.

In fact many renaissance paintings are mediocre as illustrations by today's standard but their artistic value is priceless.

What is unlimited is worthless, anyhting valuable is limited.

This is how I see art.

To all you porn artists.

Go outside, get ideas, experience life and reality and then use that artistic fuel you've gathered.

"original, unique art does not exist"

Correct, that's why we must rely on context and not simply the visuals.

Only context can be absolutely unique.

[Anonymous No.6466952]

>>6466945
Forgot pic.

Also in writing same applies.

You must give real life context to what you write, otherwise it's trope based and derivative.

Even for comedy it's the same.

[Anonymous No.6466963]

>>6466945
>>6466952

[Anonymous No.6466969]

>>6466898
This old Steppenwolf poster from the 60s was my only reference and the reference in itself has a lot of context related to our concert and philosophy as well.

But as you can see very little was taken from it aside from the perspective used and the idea about the guitar.

[Anonymous No.6466980]

And this what Gong aesthetics are like, mushrooms and pothead pixies but the real life context is what made it step out of the pre-exiating artwork.

[Anonymous No.6467093]

>>6466945
> context is the fuel of art.
Mate, it’s 2023 and we still don’t know who the Mona Lisa is.

[Anonymous No.6467098]

>>6462160
BASED

[Anonymous No.6467124]

>>6467093
That's the context, unique mystery.

And it was stolen several times, it's made by an Italian but owned by France.

It has been targeted by vandals on many occasions.

It was made by an old master during the renaissance.

I think that's an impressive historical and cultural context, the fact that you mentionad that we don't know who the woman in the picture is shows how famous that mystery is.

When you look at a random portrait drawing on twitter it doesn't make you care about who the person it depicts is.

[Anonymous No.6467139]

>>6467124
So what about that example of a hobo vomiting vs a Walter White portrait? The latter would be having more context because it’s a TV show character, yes?

[Anonymous No.6467148]

>>6467139
No, you didn't understand my point.

[Anonymous No.6467151]

>>6467139
For example if the portrait was drawn at the set of breaking bad by a crew member it would have valuable context

Also this portrait idea is pretty much a meme at this point, it's sp overdone.

[Anonymous No.6467153]

If context can be repeated or copied, it's not valuable as it's unlimited.

[Anonymous No.6467211]

>>6466835
>patreon.com/bbcchan

[Anonymous No.6467242]

holy shit I post my 2 cents and this schizo makes like 6 to 10 samefag posts in response to it. sorry underageb&fag i aint reading all that shit. sage.

[Anonymous No.6467273]

>>6466835
coomer brain can only make coom even if they tried not to, every time

hilarious

[Anonymous No.6467301]

>>6466898
>muh context
>posts art that looks derivative as fuck
>story is boring as fuck
>boring ass stoner art
Isn't this the same argument people make for artist's shit? If you need paragraphs worth of context to make people look at your shit, it probably doesn't have much to stand on, aesthetics or story wise. There's a reason why stoner art died off, it's because you need to be a stoner to enjoy it.

[Anonymous No.6467312]

>>6467273
Didn't notice until I saw his name desu.

[Anonymous No.6467317]

>>6467301
>There's a reason why stoner art died off, it's because you need to be a stoner to enjoy it.

Exactly, aesthetically it's not valuable which is why it's the context that gives it value, that is exactly the point here lol

[Anonymous No.6467332]

>>6467317
>my art has no value
>let me write a paragraph on why it has value
are you stoned right now? why not take up writing instead? Why are you communicating to us visually if you think your art has no value beyond the visuals? Why are you communicating to us through comics? Why not take up literature?

[Anonymous No.6467366]

>>6467332
>are you stoned right now?
I rarely do drugs but I believe that psychedelics have great potential, I don't like weed much.
Last time I used drugs was about a month ago when I ate opium in spain and
I never get drunk, consune caffeine daily or smoke cigarettes, in my opinion being straight is not an achievement on its own
>why not take up writing instead?
Because I want to do visual storytelling
>Why are you communicating to us visually if you think your art has no value beyond the visuals?
That's the exact opposite of what I said, you're not making any sense here
>Why are you communicating to us through comics? Why not take up literature?
Because I want to do visual storytelling, it's not even comparable to literature because these are two completely different mediums.
Visuals complement dialogue, storytelling and metaphors, it can be used to control the reader's interpretation.
I'm not interested in literature, never have been.

[Anonymous No.6467421]

>>6467366
But what do you think differentiates stoner art from other art? It's the aesthetics. 60, 70s aesthetics were ugly as fuck. Why not choose a different style?

[Anonymous No.6467453]

>>6467421
>But what do you think differentiates stoner art from other art?
The context
>ugly as fuck
Irrelevant to the context

[Anonymous No.6467454]

What is the obsession with with things being deemed as capital A Art anyway? who gives a fuck

[Anonymous No.6467458]

>>6467421
>But what do you think differentiates stoner art from other art?
<It's the aesthetics
Because of the context.
It wouldn't make sense to make a psychedelic rock concert poster with a hyperrealistic animu kawaii french maid on it, it's not an animecon poster.
If I was supposed to advertise an animecon I wouldn't make it stoner art.
>60, 70s aesthetics were ugly as fuck. Why not choose a different style?
Because of the context.
If I was supposed to design a punk rock concert I wouldn't make it a pretty neo-art noveau painting

[Anonymous No.6467495]

>>6462160
>Porn is not art, it does not have the same function as art.
porn is art, it's just art that you subjectively don't like. That's fine. That doesn't mean porn isn't art.

[Anonymous No.6467502]

>>6467495
Correct, no opinion has to be agreed with but they can be debated.

[Anonymous No.6467529]

>>6467458
except you mentioned that the aesthetics don't matter, it's the context that matters. If the aesthetics don't matter, it could literally be anything.

[Anonymous No.6467536]

>>6466898
the thread is sucking your dick for this but in reality you are a low /beg/ level and this art is quite bad. You have no legs to stand on deeming other art as "non art" when you draw like this.

[Anonymous No.6467593]

>>6467529
Well you got me there.

Would be better to say that the context largely determines the value of the aesthetics, aesthetics alone can have some value but the limit is low.
>>6467536
/ic/ obsesses over technic skill and people tend to ignore creativity and context almost entirely.

Let's say that if technical skill has a max value of 10, then contxt has a max value of 50.
Combined they are worth more than either value on its own but context is overpowered in comparison to the value of technical skill.

I drew this also but I consider that poster much more artistically valuable than this, this is just a panel from a page, on its own like this it's just "wow bro that's so detailed man" but that effect quickly wears off because there's an abundance of detailed cityscape drawings out there.

[Anonymous No.6467712]

>>6462160
Art is a ratio of technical virtuosity, aesthetic sense and conscious idealization, whose specific values may differ as long as these elements are sufficiently present so as to form said ratio. This is the definition of art, and these three things also combine to create "context," which pretty much a philosophical synonym to art. Many will disagree, while idly nodding at asinine statements such as "something can or cannot be art at the same time," despite statements such as this directly contradicting the very concept of a definition. Once again: Virtuosity, aesthetics and idealization. Form, function and fantasy. Beauty, purpose and aspiration.

Sexuality is the #1 emotional driving force for all humans. The human brain is able to quantify "beauty" strictly as a byproduct of mate acquisition. Abstract beauty is a further byproduct. Human emotion exists to facilitate new life.

You say porn is not art, I contend that art exists because of porn. Sexuality is the evolutionary bedrock of all imagination and all emotion. That is not to say that all porn is art, this is merely to establish just how far away you are from being correct, philosophically. There is a reason you are so thoroughly driven to separate porn form art, and that reason is your post-industrial drone-eunuch perversion. The reification of pornography as sexuality, or its antithesis. "Just don't drink water from the faucet bro, if you have to hike to the river to get it then you won't feel thirsty anymore, thirst is your weakness bro, you're addicted. If you make your life worse then your life will improve, because good things make your life worse and you need a bad life before you can hope for a good one." Now that's slave morality!

Pornography was the first and will be the last art that humans create, and your disqualification of the positive as pious cognitive distortion won't change that.

To answer your question regarding its prevalence, it's because young people can't have sex anymore.

[Anonymous No.6467893]

>>6467273
Your envy is showing and it's pretty pathetic kek.

[Anonymous No.6467895]

>>6467454
>who gives a fuck
People without technical skill.

[Anonymous No.6468009]

>>6467712
1/2
I think we can both agree on the fact that porn can be art in theory but my opinion here as I said is that porn is not art in practise and that's where our opinions differ.
>Pornography was the first and will be the last art that humans create
The oldest known pieces of art that exist are patterns, the venus of fels is considered erotic but it's not the oldest and I doubt it was created for someone to jack off, most ancient art revolves around animals, hunting, stories and gods.
It's very unlikely that a hunter gatherer with unlimited access to real sex would carve a crudely made tiny 6cm/2.4" tall sculpture with very large breasts and a loincloth.
>the figurine has a perforated protrusion, which may have allowed it to be worn as an amulet
I highly doubt it had the same function as porn you'd browse online, it wouldn't make much sense
>The figure is the oldest undisputed example of a depiction of a human being. In terms of figurative art only the lion-headed, zoomorphic Löwenmensch figurine is older.
Technically furries are older lol but still, patterns are older.

>I contend that art exists because of porn. Sexuality is the evolutionary bedrock of all imagination and all emotion.
As I showed above, porn is not the bedrock of man made art, in fact if you look at most animals they prioritize food and territory over sex and have it when it's safe.
In a highly stimulating environment where humans experience constant danger and are constantly occupied sex is something that is not part of everyday life and when you needed it you had it instead of staring at a cave painting and jacking off.

>Sexuality is the #1 emotional driving force for all humans.
Technically passing on genes is the priority of all organism but it's ridiculous to claim that sexuality is why we concieve beauty, it's generally accepted that we don't know the exact reason why beauty exists.
What you're stating here is not a fact, it's a possible theory, it has many functions.

[Anonymous No.6468015]

>>6468009
2/2

>Sexuality is the evolutionary bedrock of all imagination and all emotion.
Again, sexuality is not porn.

The definition of porn:

>Pornography (often shortened to porn or porno) is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the exclusive purpose of sexual arousal.

Beauty is not sexual arousal, you can look at someone thinkinb they're gorgeous without any interested in wanting to have sex with them.

>There is a reason you are so thoroughly driven to separate porn form art, and that reason is your post-industrial drone-eunuch perversion

On the other hand the reason why I think people obsess over porn in such large quantities is due to lack of stimulation.

Most people don't experience this is their lifetime but I can say as a fact that when you're on the road in survival mode or you're constantly occupied by possible danger and the need to gather resources, your sex drive goes way down as you're highly stimulated by basic activities.

This is relevant to the argument of going way back to hunter gatherer times.

Ever since agriculture and society sexuality and porn have become incresingly relevant.
It can be argued that porn is a byproduct of well being.

We're both just making theories here, we can both go on and on trying to sound famcy and all about the origins of porn but it misses my main point, this is just sidetracking.

Porn does not have the same function as art, we consume porn and art for completely different reasons.
People buy art and porn for a different reason.

The argument revolves around its function and not origin.

In theory porn is art but in practise it's not.

As I said in the opening post you can call anything art but I personally and the majority of people don't consider it art.

A corporate advertisement made by a graphic designer with the intent to get paid is not art.
This advert is not seen as art, it does not have the function of art.
It's not art by this definition.

[Anonymous No.6468051]

>>6462160
>>nsfw art
>>lewd art
>>erotic art
>It's porn, you're drawing porn.
>>6468015
>>Sexuality is the evolutionary bedrock of all imagination and all emotion.
>Again, sexuality is not porn.
Which is it?
Is all drawn sexy art porn, or not? Is erotica porn or not?

At this point I think you are just a pretentious puritan who is salty that porn artists have an easier time selling their product.

[Anonymous No.6468067]

>>6462160
>Porn is not art, it does not have the same function as art.
Wrong.
Porn is one of the most revolutionary forms of art today.
It’s one of the few forms of art that is still actively censored.

[Anonymous No.6468069]

>>6467712
>Sexuality is the evolutionary bedrock of all imagination and all emotion.
I say this in the most sincerely loving manner anon, you are fucking fried if you think there's nothing detached from sex.

[Anonymous No.6468075]

>>6466205
lol dude, as much as I disagree with OP, your art is the worth possible example. It has very little aura and it's literal, as in pornographic.
Big diference between erotic artwork and porn

>>6462338
>>6462368
>Crumb
Using art as a way to exteriorize your sexual frustrations (look up Jung's shadow) is completely different than drawing some 7 foot demon bitch with a horse cock raping some thicc latina for your patrons for 5$ a month.


>Crumb has artistic merit because his pornographic work isn't the main focus but rather it accompanies and illustrates the stories he tells, thus has artistic merit because it isn't meant to just be porn for the sake of porn. The artwork is and becomes secondary to the story.
>You are trashing nsfw art, but you just described every doujinshi under the sun to be in fact, art.

[Anonymous No.6468077]

>>6468067
>actively censored
>any 5 year old that picks up an iPhone is two clicks away
I'd like to know just what media you've found in any context is sex free. It's absolutely everywhere.

[Anonymous No.6468091]

>>6468051
>Pornography (often shortened to porn or porno) is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the exclusive purpose of sexual arousal.

>exclusive purpose of sexual arousal.

This is the definition of porn, some erotica is not exclusively made for sexual arousement, to me it can be art if it's not made exclusively as porn.

I'm not an artist by profession, I haven't even considered being one.
My pursuits in business are unrelated to that and I have easier time making money than porn artists.

I think them making money is ok, it's not a goldmine and they spend a lot of time, effort and energy producing it, they deserve every penny they get for the labour, I think it's ok.

The only thing I don't like is how porn is being pushed as something artistic and empowering which it isn't and in the west it has gotten out of hand to a point where it's just degenerate and harmful to creativity and art because so many takented people are ignoring creative pursuits and just doing porn.

If a porn artist just wants to make porn and they don't try to explain it as anything artistic then it's perfectly ok, the pretentiousness is the issue.

It's the same as when OF prostitutes call themselves entertainers or models or when sugar babies get upset when someone calls it prostitution, same thing.
These are all ok things to do even if not the best life choices.

[Anonymous No.6468097]

>>6468075
Also Robert crumb was part of the famous san francisco scene and he was the comic artist of the sexual revolution and the hippie movement even if he didn't share the same views with many of them movement of the 60s.

He even made an album cover for janis joplin, he was close friends with many famous musicians at the time.

He has made comics about his experiences and explained the backstory to the erotica.

It's pretty interesting, he was more than just some guy who made porn commissions and hung out on discord all day trying to please other wankers.

[Anonymous No.6468104]

>>6468075
>Comparing Crumb to Doujinshi
>didn't read
>missed the point by a mile
>WAAAH UR TRASHING PORN WAAAH GOTCHA
Shut the fuck up, retard.

[Anonymous No.6468129]

>>6468075
>lol dude, as much as I disagree with OP, your art is the worth possible example. It has very little aura and it's literal, as in pornographic.
>Big diference between erotic artwork and porn
I especially tried to pick a (recent) artwork that is as pornographic as possible.
I personally prefer erotica over in your face porn too. I have more subtle erotic artworks too of course. But that's beyond the point I was trying to make.
I think the pic I posted still has artistic merit, and not because it's mine. I could have posted somebody else's art and still think the same.

[Anonymous No.6468132]

>>6468129
What artistic merit does it have?

I think it has very very little artistic value beyond technical things

[Anonymous No.6468138]

>>6468132
>I think it has very very little artistic value
Portrayal of emotions.
>>6468132
>I think it has very very little artistic value beyond technical things
That's totally fine. Beyond the fact that you can't deny it has some artistic value (very very little, your words), this is obviously a matter of personal opinion. Some people might find more value than others in anything, not just art.

[Anonymous No.6468152]

>>6468138
>portrayal of emotions
Giving a subject an expression doesn't automatically give it artistic merit.
That's like saying that every single piece of art with a person smiling has artistic merit because it shows an emotional expression.
It don't.

You'd get laughed at by actual art critics if you said something like this in front of them.

[Anonymous No.6468155]

>>6468152
>That's like saying that every single piece of art with a person smiling has artistic merit because it shows an emotional expression.
If the smile is captivating and it managed to make an emotional reaction in the viewer then it does.
It's like you are purposefully trying to not understand what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.6468167]

>>6468155
No.
It's like you actually don't get it even with the definition posted
>Emotional expression in a drawing =/= artistic merit
>Emotional response to the drawing =/= especially not artistic merit
Are you trolling or really this stupid?

[Anonymous No.6468194]

[Anonymous No.6468196]

>>6468138
It is art, I can agree with that but it has little to show.

[Anonymous No.6468229]

>>6468129
>I think the pic I posted still has artistic merit
Yes, I agree with that. Even if only technically. But I am happy to hear that you prefer erotica to coomer porn.
I wouldn't defend porn art to be art at all. Personally I only do porn because commissioners pay me to do it and I need the money, but as I am improving and thus being able to pick comms and ask for more money, I'm doing more erotica (essentially nude pinups) over porn, because porn is so souless (to me at least).
I would assume someone in your position would make the move and cut away with porn altogether.

that said, I do think it's possible to draw sex scene in a erotic vein, without it being literal and vile, like porn,like Manara and picrel:Julie Delcourt

[Anonymous No.6468234]

>>6468167
>>Emotional response to the drawing =/= especially not artistic merit
This is where we disagre, Einstein.

[Anonymous No.6468236]

>>6466945
>Go outside, get ideas, experience life and reality and then use that artistic fuel you've gathered.
What if the porn is based on this artistic fuel (eg. sexual encounter , obviously with some artistic liberties) , and using this artistic fuel the artist makes something intended to arouse.

[Anonymous No.6468289]

>>6468236
Then I think it can be art depending on the execution, if the porn is only supporting the stiry but it's not just a plot that surrounds the idea of making the reader sexually aroused then yes

In my experience whenever there's a porn comic artist who tries to use this argument, the story extremely rarely actually explores anything and it's just a tropey cliche fest of their imagination.

In these cases you have to restrict the mount of porn shown to reduce the porn factor of the art, whenever there's a good story revolving around sexual themes the author tries to rwsteict the amount of sexual arousal because otherwise it becomes just empty fap material of the eyes of the consumers.

If the story is too porn for it to be read by people who are not interested in porn then it has artistic merit, if it's too porn oriented it will alienate the ones who want art and not to just jack off.

Yes, I think it's possible but the issue is that while a porn artists can be perfectly capable of making something creative, the fact is that most are not creative and can't make anything artistic when they tey to.

[Anonymous No.6468343]

>>6468234
And you're choosing to be wrong. Nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous No.6468367]

>>6468236
Got an example?

[Anonymous No.6468452]

>porn
>coomer art
>fap material

It's erotic art. You're drawing erotic art

[Anonymous No.6468458]

>>6468452
>its not pedophilia its loli!!!!

whatever terms you need to separate you from reality i guess.

[Anonymous No.6468499]

>>6468458
>you disagree with me therefore you are a pedophile
o...k

[Anonymous No.6468507]

>>6468499
Is this art?
Are the people here film actors?

[Anonymous No.6468510]

>>6468507
Did someone draw this? Reread my OP

[Anonymous No.6468513]

>>6468510
Someone wrote a script, someone filmed it, someone edited it and several people were acting in it.

Is it art?

Sounds like a double standard to me, is your porn more artistic than the porn made by those in a different medium?

[Anonymous No.6468518]

>>6468499
reading comprehension

ermmmmm okaaay thennnn O_o !1!1!!

[Anonymous No.6469487]

>>6462207
Based. Soulless sellouts SEETHING.

[Anonymous No.6469494]

Porn is to art what crack cocaine is to food.

[Anonymous No.6469873]

>>6469494
The analogy you are looking for is healthy vs junk food.
What you said is just dumb.

[Anonymous No.6469884]

>6469873
Inability to understand simple analogies is a sign of low iq. I may not agree with it but it made enough sense

[Anonymous No.6469933]

Can somebody please make an edit of this but with porn and snorting coke?

>>6469873
Junk food is food, crack is not food

[Anonymous No.6469967]

>>6469933
You want an edit of that?
That attempt of a meme should be redone from the ground up so that even a pornographer can understand it, so they can get mad at it.

[Anonymous No.6470024]

>>6469933
>Junk food is food, crack is not food
The correlation between drugs and food is simply retarded. Sorry buddy.

[Anonymous No.6470101]

>>6470024
I doubt you can even explain why.
Why do you waste your time like this?

[Anonymous No.6470154]

>>6470024
They both stimulate but only food satisfies (unless you're american)

[Anonymous No.6470264]

>>6470154
That's the problem in your analogy. In art, both sfw and nsfw stimulate and satisfy. Depending who you ask. This whole conversation is subjective af.

[Anonymous No.6470292]

>>6470264
It's clearly a joke, are you maybe have autism?

[Anonymous No.6470371]

>>6470292
Nah, I don't. It just completely flew over my head I guess.

[Anonymous No.6470717]

>>6462160
Don't care. Gonna draw BOOBA & POOPA anyways.

[Anonymous No.6470737]

>>6469933
who the fuck weighs out 10 mg folic acid on their laboratory scale to make a cake

[Anonymous No.6470744]

Whatever happened to being a proud culturally-subversive and sex-positive pornographer? What’s with all the cope ITT? Fuck art

[Anonymous No.6471468]

>>6470744
Who measures angles in a drawing and adds detailed explanations for them in a draeing?

That's the point, it's not a drawing, it's just projective geometry

[Anonymous No.6471469]

>>6470737
Who measures angles in a drawing and adds detailed explanations for them in a draeing?

That's the point, it's not a drawing, it's just projective

[Anonymous No.6471521]

>>6470744
Actually very based.