/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6403263]

how true is this

[Anonymous No.6403273]

>>6403263
its true but not to that extent. You just need a good basic grasp on anatomy before you star stylizing it.

[Anonymous No.6403274]

>>6403263
It depends. Just basic anatomy and basic shapes will be enough to make animu look appealing. Personally I would like to be able to draw realistic someday so I practice in depth anatomy. But for now animu girls are fun to draw. :3

[Anonymous No.6403275]

>>6403263
More truth to it than people want to admit. The drawing on the right is nothing special, as its a student drawing after all.

[Anonymous No.6403277]

>>6403263
Do you know what the different between anime and realistic art?
That is the same fuckin thing. Just start draw already you are a retarted weeb.

[Anonymous No.6403280]

>>6403263
It's an exaggeration but there's truth in it. Anatomical knowledge is what separates the Toriyamas from the Liefelds.

[Anonymous No.6403300]

>>6403280
Who is supposed to be better, Toriyama or Liefeld?

[Anonymous No.6403380]

>>6403263
Its not true at all. If it was, you could easily prove it. Any artist that draws left must be able to draw right.

[Anonymous No.6403388]

nope. not true. You must draw both at the same time. if you go only academic figure drawing, you end up like proko. anime is beyond reach for him now.

[Anonymous No.6403541]

>>6403388
Western academies usually hate anime, they keep insult the art style and you have to live with it for years. After graduation, that became a trauma whenever you try to draw in anime style.
Japan in the other hands invite mangaka as their teachers and you are free to draw what you want.

[Anonymous No.6404288]

>>6403541
trigger's director goes to french animation school goblin to prospect for talents

[Anonymous No.6404300]

>>6403263
completely untrue, you learn both at the same time and the knowledge of each feeds into the other

[Anonymous No.6404318]

>>6403263
The left is a caricature of reality.

You can be a caricature artist without being a good artist in general but your work will likely look bad.

[Anonymous No.6404321]

>>6403380
You are being autistic and taking it too literally

[Anonymous No.6404403]

>>6403263
partially untrue, this one is accurate tho

[Anonymous No.6404441]

>>6403263
People that can draw the right can very quickly learn to draw the left. People that can draw the left will have a hard time learning to draw the right

[Anonymous No.6404484]

>>6404441
why would anyone want to draw the right if they can draw the left

[Anonymous No.6404486]

>>6404321
>make a claim
>prove it wrong
>UHHH YOURE TAKING IT TOO SERIOUSLY GOD IT WAS JUST A JOKE AUTIST

[Anonymous No.6404492]

>>6404484

because the world doesn't need another fucking giant tit generator with glam glam puppy dog eyes and 8 shimmers.
The West™ laughs at you. Nippon raff ata yuu.
Gee another westerner trying to draw anime without the fundamentals, lets see where-

FLAT because you can't draw volumes
UGLY FACES because you can't conceptualize symmetry in any other form besides directly facing you

Anime is dessert for good artists who finished their fundies.

[Anonymous No.6404607]

i suggest that anyone who claims it's true to post their works
otherwise you fucks can go fuck yourselves

[Anonymous No.6404616]

>>6403380
Good artists actually can. Not perfectly, but they do understand how human bodies work.

[Anonymous No.6404702]

>>6403263
I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who drew the left image didn't know how to draw the right image

[Anonymous No.6404705]

>>6404492
Actual autism.

[Anonymous No.6404706]

>>6404492
truth

[Anonymous No.6404737]

>>6403263
Follow enough asians on social media and you'll realize that they unironically known how to do both. It's retard weebs who think drawing nothing but anime how your supposed to learn then get ass hurt when they don't improve.

[Anonymous No.6404740]

>>6404486
>makes stupid autistic claim
>gets mad and types in all caps for being called an autist
Typical

[Anonymous No.6404866]

>>6404607
do you like my art anon-kun

[Anonymous No.6404876]

>>6404702
And that's why you're beg. Whether you started with anime or with realistic, there's a certain point where you just know how things work and can replicate anything with ease.

A point you'll never reach, retard.

[Anonymous No.6404879]

>>6404492
this

[Anonymous No.6404890]

i believed this meme 2 years ago, now i cant draw anime (which i like) and can only draw realistic (which i fucking hate because its ugly)
just learn the basic of shape form and anatomy and start drawing anime, dont grind fundamental for 2 years and never draw for fun like me

[Anonymous No.6404907]

>>6403263
This is somewhat misleading.
The drawing on the right is an academic figure drawing (looks like the Russian style, which IMO is uglier than French/Italian style due to overemphasis on detail and not enough separation of the light and dark masses, but I digress). There is a skeleton drawn next to the figure, showing the artist is familiar with the bones and is able to "see" the skeleton within the living figure.
The drawing on the left is an anime illustration. Let's assume it was done entirely from imagination, even though many artists nowadays "cheat" by tracing over 3D models or whatnot.
To do the drawing on the right, you have to be able to draw what you see before you. The approach is the same whether you are drawing a bowl of fruit or a nude figure. The reason academic artists study anatomy is because the figure is so complex they are apt to misinterpret detail, or overlook subtleties in the modeling or outline, if they aren't already familiar with the underlying structure.
It is entirely possible to become great at drawing from observation and be completely bereft at inventing figures and scenes from imagination. In fact, it is a common pitfall. Observational drawing can be broken down into a method; then, it just require patience to follow the method and bring the drawing to a finish. A person becomes very good at this and is apt to rest on his laurels rather than appear as a novice at stylization/invention.
To do stylized/imaginative work (left), observational drawing skills are a help, because good stylization is based on reality; you will need to study sometimes. But it also requires a different skillset, including the ability to design, to break things down into simple shapes/forms, to create appeal.
I will say, either way, anatomy is important, particularly the joints. Imaginative figure construction (boxes and cylinders) falls apart at the elbows and knees if the artist doesn't understand what's going on there in different positions.

[Anonymous No.6404910]

>>6404616
[proof needed]

[Anonymous No.6404912]

>>6403263
The drawing on the left is trash though with glaring anatomical issues.

[Anonymous No.6404913]

>>6404890
dumbass. You don't automatically gain the skill to draw anime by knowing anatomy. What it does is allow you to draw better anime but you still need to spend time learning how to draw anime in the first place.

[Anonymous No.6404963]

everything about art is one big gaslighting. You don't need anything to learn anything, if you want to draw a certain way the only way to do that is to trace it and copy it over and over until you internalize its unique rules. Fundamentals are a meme. The only real constant is line quality and confidence.

[Anonymous No.6404968]

>>6404963
Nah, if you get your foundations right from the beginning you save time from trial&errors and improve at a much faster rate.

[Anonymous No.6405130]

>>6404907
>It is entirely possible to become great at drawing from observation and be completely bereft at inventing figures and scenes from imagination. In fact, it is a common pitfall.

Strong take. I'll just point out that observation development follows a U shape and a lot of "great at drawing from observation" people end up sitting at the bottom of it because it's comforting, joyful to draw, and does not require much attention/energy to get something that is passably accurate. This is your atelier student who is just good enough to fool themselves and the audience but has gotten complacent. The right hand side that spikes back up requires dialing in all of your knowledge of fundies to re-start your education and now really push beyond mere observation. It is very arduous to disregard what you think you know and begin over, but some people are called to it. This is what filters out a lot of people from reaching the levels of Mønsted or Shishkin.

[Anonymous No.6405137]

>>6403263
There is no definitive answer imo. It depends on how you personally grasp anatomy as well as what your personal art goals are.. I've seen some of my classmates who draw animu really well but can't grasp realism for shit. Like the understand how to give illusion of light as well as stable anatomy, but cannot structure the body in a realistic way. If they are dead set on drawing animu for the rest tof their lives thats totally fine. But it will hinder them if they try to step outside animu.

[Anonymous No.6405345]

>>6404963
NPC post

[Anonymous No.6405865]

>>6404963
That's how you naturally learn anything. People start worrying about the right way of learning only when doing it consciously. You wouldn't learn an entire recipe by heart when trying to cook something new, you just keep the instructions next to you and eventually if you do it enough times it will stick in and if you don't then why would you need it in your head anyway. I think that the biggest advantage of starting out a discipline when young is that you tend to learn this way.

However if you want to make a living out of it you need to be able to output work of a good enough quality while retaining productivity, in other words be efficient. Contrary to wageslavery being able to do the job fast is more valuable in a freelance environment (which represents a large number of artists). Taking that into consideration, having the knowledge ready to use in your head is essential.

[Anonymous No.6405876]

>>6404910
Manga materials

[Anonymous No.6405879]

>>6403273
no, you need a good grasp on anatomy so that you can stop stylizing it and begin idealizing it
anime faces are stylized, anime bodies are idealized, not the same thing

[Anonymous No.6405956]

>>6403263
eeeh

[Anonymous No.6405972]

>>6405956
bruh you're not even tracing correctly how did you miss yui's right shoulder when it's literally in the picture

[Anonymous No.6406134]

>>6405956
Are you trolling or...

[Anonymous No.6406148]

>>6404963
This is like saying that to learn physics, you don't need to learn the established theories. That you can learn just by doing experiments.

While you learn some physics that way, it will take you more than a lifetime to rediscover everything a high schooler learns about it.

Same with art. You can develop the theory of perspective, rediscover how light works etc just by drawing what you see and copying the old masters. But will take you rather longer than if you would just study a book on these topics.

[Anonymous No.6406311]

>>6406148
That's not comparable. Physics is a science, drawing is a craft, like learning how to sew or how to sculpt, and you can't learn a craft just with theory you need a huge amount of practice.

[Anonymous No.6406324]

>>6406311
>and you can't learn a craft just with theory
but it sure does help you learn faster than just fucking around until you finally manage to reach the same conclusion you could have easily gleaned from a book or learned from someone who went through the exact same struggles, obviously.
learn the rules before you break them, etc, etc

[Anonymous No.6406326]

>>6406311
My point was not that you didn't need to practice, relying only on theory. I meant that fundamentals are not useless and can help you improve faster than if you ignored then.

[Anonymous No.6406565]

>>6403263
kind of true but not really

[Anonymous No.6406708]

You can make decent animu with just a basic understanding of anatomy. That is fine. But, the more anatomy you know (fundies in general) the better your anime cringe art will be. You can learn anatomy while you draw anime, you don't have to do one before the other. That doesn't even really make sense since you never really stop learning. Most important part is draw what is most interesting to you and what your needs are at the time.

[Anonymous No.6406726]

>>6406148
the difference is physics are real, fundamentals aren't. Any "rule" you can come up with I can post more successful examples breaking it.

Physics is all about what WILL happen, art has no certainly like that. There is no "You must do X" in art.

[Anonymous No.6406729]

>>6406726
just because it's not science doesn't mean the human body can't follow roughly similar proportions on average, which you can learn, and from which you can then vary stuff.
same goes with color theory, perspective, etc.

[Anonymous No.6406780]

if you have to ask then it's true, otherwise it is not.

[Anonymous No.6406849]

depends entirely on your goals, but it obviously wouldn't hurt to have an actual foundation

[Anonymous No.6406854]

>>6406726
Ok, I'm starting to regret using physics as an example since people are missing the point. That being said, what exactly is your point? The rules of art aren't as rigorous as physics'. True. But does that render them useless? Common wisdom says that you need to know the rules to break them. I didn't find it to be any different with art.

[Anonymous No.6406860]

>>6405956
Give up. These permabegs can't see the glaring issues because they don't draw or have any experience.

[Anonymous No.6406863]

>>6406860
ngmi

[Anonymous No.6406867]

>>6406860
He is trolling

[Anonymous No.6407113]

>>6406854
Not him but I think that his point is that they're not rules, rather guidelines. Whether they're useful or not solely depend on your objective.

[Anonymous No.6407221]

>>6403263
completely false westoid cope

[Anonymous No.6407235]

>>6403263
people who draw anime/manga style illustrations absolutely draw realistic human beings, be it from photos, life drawing, etc.
around 2016 i was in japan, and while visiting a bookstore, checked out some books on how to draw manga and basically all of them, immediately, on the very first pages, start with "actually, first you have to understand real human proportions, but stylize them" with comparisons of a real person to a stylized manga-style version (up to SD style/chibi).
complete with side-by-side comparisons of realistically drawn people and their proportions and manga-style proportions.
it's genuinely baffling that people think japanese people don't practice realism at least somewhat to apply anatomical knowledge and proportions to their illustrations. maybe not to the point of the right side of op's pic but they pretty much do study real humans. kind of why many illustrations on pixiv look like photos from a gravure magazine with an anime head.

[Anonymous No.6407236]

>>6403263
Why are people still asking this question in post-proko world? We saw that a dude with a fine arts degree cant draw cartoons for shit. Stylization is difficult and it's own skilll

[Anonymous No.6407240]

>>6407236
>Stylization is difficult and it's own skilll
definitely, but imo it's learned and applied on top of anatomy and knowledge of proportions.
can't stylize what you don't understand.
because japanese people, on average, study much more than your average /ic/ user (or people in the west in general), they just have their basics down much faster, usually, and can go on to stylize faster...

[Anonymous No.6407273]

>>6403263
It was answered thousand times before.
The right is student drawing. If you know your fundamentals you will draw like this with easy. That's point.

[Anonymous No.6407295]

>>6405956
Don't try correct people while you are still beg. It's tempting yes, but leave it to the pros.

[Anonymous No.6407298]

>>6407295
This bait is even better

[Anonymous No.6407309]

>>6407298
"Masterbait", if you will.

[Anonymous No.6407372]

>>6403263
true

[Anonymous No.6408718]

>>6405879
>anime bodies are idealized
Behold, the ideal body.

[Anonymous No.6411293]

>>6403263
It's not true but there's pros and cons to both. A lot of people just learn anime stuff but eventually you'll need basics to get proportions and stuff right and eventually you'll get burnt out and it helps to switch to drawing in a different art style as a pallet cleanser

A lot of anime artists never learn to draw anything other than anime stuff

[Anonymous No.6411302]

Anime is good but this is not a good example of it.

[Anonymous No.6411323]

>>6404910
Toko suzuki is literal proof of this. If any of you can counter with proof please go ahead faggots.

[Anonymous No.6411596]

>>6403263
why is the skelly taller than without meat on?

[Anonymous No.6411621]

>>6411596
meat weighs down you spine, makes you shorter.