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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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File: 514 KB, 3507x2480, can't shade for real.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6386119 No.6386119 [Reply] [Original]

I can draw most things on top of my head but I can't do the same for shading. Everytime I try to shade anything, it's just a constant headache trying to fix it and the result ended up like shit.

People said you can draw anything if you can master basic forms. OK. What about shading then? Is it possible to understand shading the same way that I can construct any drawing from cube and cylinder?

>> No.6386148
File: 439 KB, 1080x1440, kang-meng-93d92989ly1g9pfgidch9j20u0140qv8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Just keep at it. Try copy from a range of artists to get a feel for what looks good.

>> No.6386152
File: 181 KB, 637x850, DP282111-edit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Albrecht Dürer

>> No.6386162

holy mother of chicken scratching

>> No.6386163


>> No.6386164

You don't understand the form.
Idk how you can learn it but you need to feel the form.

>> No.6386165

that's literally not chicken scratching noob-chan.

>> No.6386166

>you cant do thing
>i dont understand how to do thing my self
>but heres how you do it

this board in a nutshell

>> No.6386170
File: 40 KB, 378x396, 1573126737278.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

every time

>> No.6386172

Dunning–Kruger is strong with this one.
Talk shit, get hit. faggot.

>> No.6386174
File: 1.96 MB, 683x1000, MarCap2ServbotBengus.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here is a guy with simple forms to practice.

>> No.6386178
File: 107 KB, 1242x1333, c0f3e469f9eff8f5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You can't draw tho

>> No.6386180

It's always a 50/50 if posts like this are trolling or serious.

>> No.6386181

Nigger had that house meme locked and loaded. troll confirmed.

>> No.6386182

So you mean to tell me just use references? How would this teach me to shade intuitively so I can manipulate any subject i want?

>> No.6386183

Shade more precisely. If you build upon sloppy work your drawing will look bad. Also, learn about reflections. Go see how a ball is shaded. It's not done like a box. I'm sure you can easily find a tutorial.

>> No.6386185

you need to learn from references in order to shade intuitively later, dumbfuck. Learn first.

>> No.6386186

observe how they use lines across forms. apply similar methods to your own forms. currently you are just sort of shading perpendicular from the contour/edges. Try core shadows and cast shadows(look at the servbot) too.

>> No.6386193

Alright I’ll bite.
Everyone here is fucking retarded. There are very specific ways of finding the terminal and cast shadows on objects. If you want a real answer, look up Scott Robertson’s how to render.(I recommend reading his how to draw book first, and if it’s too hard, go to an easier book and then hop on that one)

>> No.6386194

do you rlly need to read the H2D first before tackle the render book? im not interested in industrial design

>> No.6386199

He asked about shading, with his attempt using line/hatching across form. Learning how to calculate accurate cast shadows won't help him shade across the form in an intuitive way

>> No.6386216

I actually struggle at understanding light on complex form. Where to separate between light and dark, how to assign value correctly.....I don’t think perfectly render a ball will just magically makes me know how to light a whole human body.

>> No.6386227
File: 83 KB, 970x577, QhKaUR3TkQkVWW92U4tbFj-970-80.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Try the Scott Robertson book.
>I don’t think perfectly render a ball will just magically makes me know how to light a whole human body.
You might be surprised how far that can get you.

>> No.6386233
File: 72 KB, 236x505, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

imagine the shapes as low poly meshes, and base your shading off the simplified planes.

>> No.6386255
File: 185 KB, 1388x2004, hspf9u0w.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

hatching and shading are related but separate concepts and it might be easier to understand value first before you start hatching or cross hatching, because the latter benefit a lot from the understanding of the form or how the surface curves. It would be good to study something like plaster sculptures and analyze the shadings on the form as if its paint by numbers, then once you understand what you are looking at, you can try and internalized how the lights effects different forms. I don't know if you did these drawings by looking something but I still suggest you find some sort of reference to study and post results.

>> No.6386274

This looks very nice anon! Thank you. I drew the top pic free hand just to describe how i can understand where to separate light dark on simple form(the cylinder was a joke) but unable to do the same on more complex form. I’m still confused alot about this but will keep in mind what you said.

>> No.6386276

get either of dorian iten's light and form or shading course, and you'll get it.

>> No.6386354

You do not need it but it does help if you are lacking in understanding the form of the object rather than the outline.
To render effectively you need to understand how the form of an object moves on a 3d plain and blocks or reflects light.

>> No.6386799

It's because your shading looks like hair.
You need to be more deliberate with your lines.

>> No.6388105
File: 156 KB, 498x720, 2022-11-23 hatching and shading test.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I must confess, I have not made the connection between using simpler forms to analyze the type of value transitions you may observe on something before practically internalized what one might expect where to use certain type of shadings. Like you have done with the robot, the human figure can be break down into simpler form as well, and the value transit different based on where it is. although understanding value is one thing, hatching as technique is another. My suggestion was to understanding value first, but sometimes hatching might be easier to understand. Another thing to consider is Hogarth, which I considered to be like a bridge between observational and imagination because I felt his approach to muscle is more of a strategy to analyze the form.

>> No.6388130

stop scribbling. if thats your art, its just randomly hatchings. there are so many ways to render these and you just throw lines with no thought.

1) if your fucking hatchings go outside the lines, you arent even trying. you are literally a 5 year old scribbling with a crayon on the floor like a moron. how the fuck can you make a line outside of a box? you draw shadow areas and curves on spheres or cylinders, yet somehow fucking draw outside the area. stop being an asshole scribbling and asking why its not working.

2) hatching spacing matters. some lines nearly touching or even overlapping each other while line next to it is inch away is fucking stupid. it destroys the gradient. you are implying shadows and gradients. these lines are rendering shadow and light. its not just random lines as fast as possible along an edge. if a line starts tightly spaced and those hatchings gradually get wider, that informs the viewer something about it. if its tight near corners or farther away from the viewer and gets wider as it approaches us, that informs perspective and change in that shadow.

3) line weights matter. you are mostly doing feathering techniques on these and the line is the same from the edge to where it should be fading off. it should be thicker near the hard edge or rounded part or core shadow and then get thinner and lighter as it goes out. this gives us the gradient and fading shadow. your lines are all the same even if its a bulging tentacle that should be lighter on the curve than part that is going around the edge.

you need to learn how to render. not shade. render. go look up richard friend channel. older videos discuss how to ink properly and will teach you how to render these types of lines.

>> No.6388146

learn how to shade a cube, cylinder, and sphere from different angles and lighting environments for a couple weeks and you will probably not struggle so much anymore. just know that light falloff is dramatic. most values in light are tight together, and when the form turns the light falls off drastically and gets dark quick. thats something a lot of beginners should internalize as soon as they can

>> No.6388148

hahah way to remove all doubt you are a fucking retarded novice

>> No.6388153


>> No.6388167
File: 1.25 MB, 834x1404, hlbhassgb9f91.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

this is a sketch i did awhile ago in about 40 mins i guess. i chose this one because it is 100 percent entirely from imagination. literally just a sketch, but its probably a level you would like to be at potentially so you see the art alongside the advice.

values and rendering is something i obsessed with for awhile. my number one advice for values which took me a long time to learn was that values are actually more tighter together than your brain realizes(unless the material is gloss/reflective).we want to think values are more dyanmic than they are and they can be but only in separate groups from one another, thats an entirely different topic in its about composition. if you want to learn how to "shade" from imagination you need to do a lot of studies im sorry theres no other way around it but when you say this people think grinding cubes and shit which WILL help and ive done plenty but the majority of your gains will come from actually painting.

yes its taking you forever to shade from imagination but thats part of the process, there is nothing here that is necessarily bad its just a grind and grinds suck. the reason you want to use references for form is so you KNOW when something looks bad which is the first step of progress and you can work it out seeing if the form looks identical to the reference even if the lighting is not the same from the reference

theres a million other things i can tell you. light rays go straight. bounce light is always darker than the lighted areas. a smaller more powerful lightsource results in harder shadows. cast shadows are hard edges and form shadows are soft edges. "ambient light" in most cases is the more pervasive light in the scene. most all paintings can be done in 4-5 values. theres so much more but u can learn this from youtube videos, the main takeaway i would suggest is keeping your values tight in their dedicated value groups.

>> No.6388257

Are you satisfied with your shading when using references atleast? Even if you do,it's a start but it still doesn't mean you will be able to do it from imagination, but if you don't them it's definitely impossible

>> No.6388305

He's only playing dead. Right, anon? He's going to pop up any second now and bonk Dr Robotnik in the head...

>> No.6388310

I understand the importance of reference, I just don’t believe mindlessly copy is enough. I thought there must be some universal theories that I can apply to shading/rendering the same way I can understand how basic forms and perspective can technically help you draw anything.
So far I’ve seen alot of helpful tips which I appreciate alot although a little bit overwhelming. I guess I’ll keep grinding and see if anything click but thanks anyway.

>> No.6388323

>universal theories
Lambert's cosine law might count as universal. I learned by intuition, but knowing it beforehand might have sped up my learning.

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