/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.6243862]

What makes old anime have "that" look that doesn't look animore? Something about the lines, color and bright effects, but I can't put my finger on it.

[Anonymous No.6243865]

What makes ESLS ask "that" question over and over?

[Anonymous No.6243875]

>>6243862
ask /a/

[Anonymous No.6243877]

>>6243862
genes of japanese race

[Anonymous No.6243878]

Construction and lack of cgi, not that many crazy bastards to pull that off today

[Anonymous No.6243879]

>>6243862
Trannime poster and esl. This board is collapsing

[Anonymous No.6243881]

asian beans

[Anonymous No.6243882]

>>6243878
Is it possible that they made all of that in CGI and trace each frame?

[Anonymous No.6243891]

>>6243882
No, the fact that this nerds were so passionate to construct it is what gives it so much soul

[Anonymous No.6243892]

asian screens

[Anonymous No.6243923]

>>6243882
Studios till this day have dedicated teams that handle mechas.

[Anonymous No.6243953]

>>6243862
a more muted palette - stuff had to look good on NTSC

[Anonymous No.6244069]

>>6243862
solid color blocks + back lighting + film grain, not very hard to simulate in software

[Anonymous No.6244072]

>>6244069
>not very hard to simulate in software
except no one has done it succesfully yet

[Anonymous No.6244075]

>>6243862
Higher budgets. More time spent and more details.

[Anonymous No.6244078]

>>6244072
no one cares because the average modern day anime viewer is a gay faggot

[Anonymous No.6244079]

>>6244078
Maybe but I have yet to see proof that it's "easy" to do

[Anonymous No.6244124]

>>6243862
It's the limited color that trad paint provides. That's it. Digital color and post processing creates very different palettes. If you want to emulate it digitally then you have to sample colors from the source, then use filters to give it a low resolution analogue look.

[Anonymous No.6244157]

>>6244124
Why did they have a limited palette? Didn't the backgroundd have gradients?
>>6244069
Why would they have film grain? Were they photographed?

[Anonymous No.6244167]

>>6244079
megalo box had a similar aesthetic
obviously not 1:1 copy, because modern audiences have different expectations
old looks just wouldnt sell now, why do it?

[Anonymous No.6244179]

>>6243862
The artists were interested in things that were not anime. As such, those inspirations were made manifest in their work.

[Anonymous No.6244458]

>>6243882
Given that Gunbuster came out in 1988, and was the directorial debut of Hideaki Anno, Chances of CGI are 0%

[Anonymous No.6244544]

>>6244157
Gradients from airbrush or different blending techniques. A limited palette is from the limitation of pigments in physical paint. A physical pigment reflecting a light wavelength is different than a light diode in a screen that can be tuned to just about any color on the visual spectrum. There's a reason when you print a picture it's not the same colors as your screen unless you're working in a highly professional setting. So either buy real physical Japanese paints and animate cels by hand, or strictly sample your digital colors from analogue anime to get as close to the pigment limitations as possible.

[Anonymous No.6244662]

>>6243862
No CGI, everything is hand-drawn using paper

[Anonymous No.6244668]

>>6244124
Not all old anime stuck in Laserdisc looks. Alot of them had DVD and Bluray remasters. They don't have that oversaturated colortone of Laserdisc. This is something alot of those "Old anime bootleg" artworks didn't understand at all.

[Anonymous No.6244683]

>>6244544
This artwork look more like something in Laserdisc, an outcome of tech limitation rather than how the anime actually looked like.

[Anonymous No.6244685]

>>6244544
I edited the color abit so to make it look more "DVD-like". Photo below is from an actual 90s anime, Mazinkaiser.

[Anonymous No.6244712]

>>6244458
There were small sections of CGI in Akira and there were CGI in all sorts of western media by that time, I remember the little mermaid had some. But what I meant is to create the models in 3d, make a cool composition on the renderer and trace it into cels. 3d existed way back even before the 80's.

I mean how did they do those crazy realistic looking scenes on Gundam and Macross series/movies.

[Anonymous No.6244720]

>>6244668
>>6244683
>>6244685
I agree that the old animation as they were originally made looked different before all the tech compression or color distortion etc. Sampling directly from online rips of old shows is never going to give you the true colors, but at this point this style in online art is more like a revival than a continuation. Some of that artists stuff is even shittier imitations but it's good enough for normies. I consider it next to impossible to digitally emulate the look of paint on paper and cels regardless. You can't quite generate the imperfections in the texture and colors.

[Anonymous No.6244727]

>>6244712
You are under estimating the skill of these Japanese dudes, they did mecha shit by hand.
Akira barely used cgi, the pattern on the brainwave thing, lens flares and parallax for background plates was all.

[Anonymous No.6244750]

>>6244720
Minus some retards, anime encoders universally have a rule to never alter the color of the source disc. You can see specific differences in Bluray, DVD compares to VHS and Laserdisc. Rainbow edges, overbright, overly dark, broken color balancing- They are all came from tech limitation of primitive media containers.

[Anonymous No.6244757]

>>6244750
Nothing much you can do. The average person recognizes the older look by those very same color tech limitations anyway, varied as they are. The low fidelity is now a part of the identity of old work, I suppose paying homage to the technology of a bygone era along with to the art itself.

[Anonymous No.6244775]

>>6244727
The parallax buildings were shit though.

[Anonymous No.6244780]

>>6244720
I have many original Dvds and they ALL have that brown tint

[Anonymous No.6244786]

>>6244458
Was he against 3d or something?

[Anonymous No.6244790]

>>6244786
Not especially. But look at his work when he was 19. He was all about hand drawn mecha animation. Infact that shot from gunbusters is almost a recreation of a shot he did at university

[Anonymous No.6244822]

>>6244780
Old gen DVD are quite bad, however, this technology has gotten better thoughout the years.

[Anonymous No.6244824]

>>6244786
Anno is the most normiefag you can find. He made these Shin Evangelion movies just to shove in CGI.

[Anonymous No.6244912]

>>6244167
>old looks just wouldn't sell now, why do it?
You know what, I wouldn't be surprised if circular logic is keeping production companies from seeing an untapped market.
>It's not being done because it doesn't sell
>It doesn't sell because it isn't done
>repeat

Demand made invisible due to lack of supply.

[Anonymous No.6244932]

>>6244157
>Were they photographed?
Yes, obviously. How'd you think they got the pictures on photographic film that you could show in a theatre?

[Anonymous No.6245305]

>>6244775
Ahh, I liked them myself. There were so many complex shots of the city and the buildings were insanely detailed.
I had no idea computers were used for that, I thought it was the standard top-down animation camera and a table that rotated the backgrounds to produce a pab.

[Anonymous No.6245396]

>>6245305
It probably was photographed in the standard way, wikipedia says cgi was used to "model parallax effects on backgrounds", so I read that as plan it out, simulate it, get the numbers needed before doing it irl?

[Anonymous No.6246080]

>>6243862
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GDmxBI3ss4

[Anonymous No.6246103]

>>6243862
I think the style developed in relative isolation from the rest of the world; japan is an island surrounded by ocean with a history of rejecting other cultural influences (inb4 old anime copied Disney). The zeitgeist of the time combined with cultural isolation and insane work ethic created "that" look.

[Anonymous No.6246111]

>>6246103
You're a fucking moron, the entirety of Japanese aesthetics present in Anime is an over the top version of 80s American aesthetics. America still occupies Japan until this day and influences their policy and government very heavily, tranime otaku fags with no understanding of anything geopolitical should really stfu

[Anonymous No.6246118]

>>6243862
dude fr, i've been trying to figure out how they did lights back then. like the glow of this shot, even though its a meme, i want to know how they used to do this shit

[Anonymous No.6246214]

>>6246118
I think they just light the cells from the back

[Anonymous No.6246472]

>>6246118
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Underlighting

[Anonymous No.6246883]

>>6243862
Post an image and I'll make it have "that look".

[Anonymous No.6246890]

>>6246883
do it you won't

[Anonymous No.6246916]

>>6246890

[Anonymous No.6246921]

>>6246916

[Anonymous No.6247003]

>>6243862
A lot of "retro" artists today are gatekeeping this really easy method of coloring that was widely used back in the 70's, 80's ad in the early 90's. They're also hiding what program they use in order to convert their RGB colors into what the majority of media was colored in back then: CMYK. I found a really simple tutorial on jewtube explaining how hacks like BlueTheBone do it, and now you can do it too. Knowledge is power, my friend. Go create some retro and fuck the gatekeepers. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0QwbtsxgYE

[Anonymous No.6247009]

>>6244157
>Were they photographed?
Yes. This is how anime production worked, they would lay the cels on the backgrounds and photograph them. This is not a joke. The main differences between modern production and cel production is that
1. the genga is now scanned to be cleaned/lined and then colored digitally instead of being cleaned/lined and then colored with paint/markers on a transparent cel
and 2. Because the process is now digital all the compositing is done digitally, whereas previously they had to physically place the cels onto the backgrounds to be photographed/filmed -- this is what can create the imperfections you see such as a very very slight drop shadow on cels and particulate on frames and so on.
Anime is still, for the most part, animated traditionally: with pencils on paper. It's the not-actually-animating part that is digitized.
There's also the matter of the medium they were made for: they didn't have big LCD or plasma screen TVs with super bright saturated colors back then. They instead composed the look of the shows to work well with the TVs they were viewed on: CRTs. CRTs didn't do so well with bright saturated colors as it did with more toned down palettes, and their size was much smaller so they tried to compose shots to read better on the smaller displays. There's also the factor that the photography process would make the colors more muted than they actually were.

>>6246118
They placed the cel on a lightbox/light table and took a photo.

[Anonymous No.6247032]

>>6247003
No matter what computer program you're using to color your work in, always work in CMYK, not RGB. Create a CMYK color palette for you to work with, and you're 90% done creating retro.
>God mode activated
>captcha : as easy as xyza0

[Anonymous No.6247123]

>>6247032
>Create a CMYK color palette
How do you do that?

[Anonymous No.6247161]

>>6243862
I know exactly what you mean OP

I miss it too, it was a different feel from modern CG scenes, there was "selective bloom" now it feels like there is constant bloom and nothing truly "dark"

Hard to explain with words so

[Anonymous No.6247163]

>>6247161
Also everything mechanical and technical looked more believable, instead of CG

[Anonymous No.6247167]

[Anonymous No.6247169]

[Anonymous No.6247172]

[Anonymous No.6247175]

Look at the background, entirely hand painted

[Anonymous No.6247177]

[Anonymous No.6247180]

[Anonymous No.6247189]

[Anonymous No.6247191]

[Anonymous No.6247195]

[Anonymous No.6247203]

Compare to modern anime scene- fully CG plane and bloomy as all fuck to the point its an eysore

[Anonymous No.6247206]

[Anonymous No.6247211]

[Anonymous No.6247213]

[Anonymous No.6247215]

[Anonymous No.6247222]

>>6247161
>>6247163
this
the sense of lighting, perspective and form in digital anime is a lot more "off" than in traditional
the colors they use also seem less realistic than they used to be, more like how you would color a children's story book (grass is bright green, the sky is bright blue etc.) than the color things actually are
pic unrelated, I just thought it was funny

[Anonymous No.6247237]

MAYBE it's the fact is was analog you dumb fuck.
shit was painted on a acetate sheet, laid over a handpainted goache background and shot with a camera.
This process creates a bunch of artifacts, noise, a patina if you will, that digital just can't emulate.

[Anonymous No.6247250]

>>6247237
lupin cel

[Anonymous No.6247264]

>>6247250
more like loop incel amirite

[Anonymous No.6247268]

[Anonymous No.6247271]

[Anonymous No.6247272]

[Anonymous No.6247305]

>>6247272
God damn this looks so good all of em

[Anonymous No.6247478]

>>6247003
wow I can instantly draw and render like blue the bone now

[Anonymous No.6247518]

>>6247206
>>6247203
These look like ass, why does modern anime have this horrendous bloom?

[Anonymous No.6247553]

>>6247518
And it often looks flat too

[Anonymous No.6247556]

>>6247553

[Anonymous No.6247721]

>>6247161
>>6247163
>>6247167
>>6247169
>>6247172
>>6247175
>>6247177
>>6247180
>>6247189
>>6247191
>>6247195
>>6247211
>>6247213
>>6247215
>>6247237
>>6247250
>>6247268
>>6247271
>>6247272
S O V L
>>6247203
>>6247206
>>6247553
>>6247556
soulless

[Anonymous No.6247731]

Naruto still had the old look but it's all digital.
Also check this channel:
https://youtu.be/WEaF3nJEYSE

[Anonymous No.6247785]

i like old mechas/backgrounds too
but all of you are comparing motherfucking movies, big budget movies may i add, to some random seasonal tv shows
obviously there wont be any competition

[Anonymous No.6247852]

>>6247785
The original Cowboy Bepop anime (not the movies) were high quality as fuck and the colors, mechanical animation, etc were fantastic. If you compare it to another high budget anime of today like Kimetsu no Yaiba, it's clear that there's just a different process/style used for colors, post processing (the ugly "bloom" in modern anime as other anons have been talking about), object animation, etc. Kimetsu no Yaiba is actually a great example because is animation is super fluid but there are a shitload of night scenes that look look bright and don't change the "local colors" of the characters enough. Color theory is genuinely easier when working with pigments and I would say most of the "soulless" qualities of modern anime is simply the byproduct of going full digital color-wise.

[Anonymous No.6247867]

>>6247785
>>6247852
I should add the post-processing and vfx are also a huge part of it as well. If you took this scene of Cowboy Bepop and changed the levels/added an obnoxious amount of bloom it would probably look pretty ugly. I think a lot about how studios KyoAni go crazy with their chromatic aberration and lighting effects these days too. The industry standards for vfx will hopefully change for the better as digital becomes an "older" medium with more masters behind it.

[Anonymous No.6248144]

>>6247123
Here you go, starter pack of CMYK colors, just be sure that your coloring program is using a CMYK color profile when you start a new project.
>>6247478
Good luck in your drawing retro, fren.

[Anonymous No.6248146]

>>6248144
Checking my digits, here's some more color profiles you can start with.

[Anonymous No.6248151]

>>6248146
Shit my bad, those are all in RGB, but if you use them in your CMYK color profile for whatever new paint project your doing, your program will automatically re-color them for use in CMYK mode. Here are some cmyk skin tones in case those don't work. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.6252572]

bump. Good thread.

[Anonymous No.6252615]

grain and all the other visual quirks of cell animation
that’s literally it

[Anonymous No.6252627]

>>6252615
>it looks different because they used completely different techniques
>that's literally it
wow thank you very insightful

[Anonymous No.6252634]

>>6243862
The glows are real light shining through the cels

[Anonymous No.6252644]

>>6243862
anime has always been produced by borderline slave labor. most animators make less than $50 a day. it used to be japanese otaku freaks doing it in the hopes of getting a foot in the door and pitching their own anime to the executives. after so many animators dropped dead after 500+ hour months the japanese began to crack down on exploiting independent contractor labor laws so the studios began to outsource to korea, china, and sometimes vietnam, indonesia, and malaysia. most modern anime is japanese cgi mixed with korean animation. astro boy set the standard for anime production and it never changed. even though the anime industry has grown 5x in value in 20 years the studios don't want to share the profits with the creative types, thus modern anime is garbage animation and recycled character archetypes and stories. it's pretty much the same story as the video game industry.

[Anonymous No.6252673]

>>6252627
it literally tells you all you need to know, the drawing isn’t any different, the transfer gives it the look
n case you’re retarded and need it spelled out, that means you can just draw normally and then replicate the transfer or use filters if you’re a paintlet

[Anonymous No.6253293]

I wonder How difficult it would be to create a graph shader which seperates objects into layers and toons the colors so that they will have a similar apperance to the old styles
Would certainly be interesting to attempt

[Anonymous No.6253769]

>>6243862
colored shading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDOp_xPFCjo

[Anonymous No.6253880]

>>6253769
TIL 90s anime was impressionism

[Anonymous No.6253887]

>>6253769
this is an impossibly retarded video made by a permabeg, probably posts here as well...

[Anonymous No.6253888]

>>6253887
/ic/ is filled to the brim with permabegs? You don't say.

[Anonymous No.6254494]

>>6243862
It's called 'have a fucking budget'

[Anonymous No.6257619]

bump

[Anonymous No.6257645]

>>6244069
the secret is to make contour variation and distort places, modern technology is not capable of it, only handwork

[Anonymous No.6257648]

>>6244124
>limited color that trad paint provides
what? you can easily get any colour just mixing basic triad, handwork drawings do the sovl part

[Anonymous No.6257654]

>>6247032
oh shit i forgot about it, yes, that's one of the main ingredients

[Anonymous No.6257657]

>>6247123
turn on the cmyk profile and just draw, it's another way of colour processing

[Anonymous No.6257676]

>>6257648
what i think they mean is animation cels need to be filled out with solid colors. different solid colors that work with each other and make the image pop. even miyazaki said cels are more difficult to fuck up bc outlines + solid colors look nice most of the time.
nowadays anime is comped to hell and back with 457059 effects applied, which makes it look both flashy and boring/muddy at the same time.
>>6254494
pantsu-ripper? nice.