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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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6099246 No.6099246 [Reply] [Original]

Is it worth learning Japanese just to gain access to superior drawing resources? It seems like their artists draw so much better than ours.

>> No.6099249

No retard. Where do you think they learned how to art from? It's literally Western reference material repackaged for an Asian audience.

Also fuck off with your passive aggressive trolling.

>> No.6099256

>>6099249
ive checked all the western books on amazon.co.jp and they all have poor reviews compared to the japanese and korean drawing books. They don't even have japanese translations of Bridgman & Hogarth. the only exception is the Vilppu drawing manual

>> No.6099257
File: 64 KB, 624x624, kimchi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6099257

>>6099246

>> No.6099259

>>6099257
what makes you think im baiting, fellow productive and fulfilled artist? People a hundred years ago had to learn French to learn to draw. Now with all the great art books going out of print, such as the Arthur Guptills, Richard Hattons, Richers, and Grahams, maybe the support for art is just much higher in Tokyo

>> No.6099260

>>6099246
America stopped producing good artists after Loomis.
Coincidence?

>> No.6099264

>>6099260
American animation and comics unironically look like utter crap. Pixar is okay

>> No.6099265

Not a single Asian artist I'm following on stream sites uses the methods of that book. Everyone seems to have their own way of going about the figure.

>> No.6099268
File: 2.88 MB, 479x255, 961F55A1-4FAE-4D79-A9B5-072F21134146.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6099268

Learn and entirely new language just to finally get to drawing instead of just drawing. K

>> No.6099271

>>6099246
>japanese learner of 10 years reporting in

its mostly the same but actually packaged different.
but you know... the more books you hoard the more you have the illusion of progress compared to putting in the hours and frustration or true learning.

>> No.6099272

>>6099246
let's address the elephant in the room
ain't this guy Korean?

>> No.6099280

>>6099259
It's originally a korean book.
And you can just translate any book easily now. As long as you understand the basic concepts from the english language books/videos you don't need to be able to read japanese or korean etc.

If you just want to learn a language then japanese or korean or chinese would be a good one sure. But it's completely unnecessary and would just eat into drawing time unless you actually moved to one of those countries for full immersion learning.
But I would advise against that because US and EU are the best places for an artist to work and live, after that maybe south east asia but I don't know enough to be sure.

>> No.6099281

>>6099272
Probably, but op is a tard who is only interested in trolling about everything West being bad. They know there are endless amounts of Western resources posted on this very board that could take them all the way to pro and beyond, but they're pretending they don't know that.

>> No.6099282

>>6099271
how good is your Nihongo?

>> No.6099287

>>6099282
considering how long i do it not good. but i can understand the content i want.

>> No.6099288
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6099288

>>6099280
>But I would advise against that because US and EU are the best places for an artist to work and live
Is it because Japan severly underpays their artists? Otherwise it seems like their animation projects are much more artistically satisfying than our shows. Living in tokyo seems like a dream desu

>> No.6099292

>>6099268
immersion learning bby

>> No.6099297

>>6099287
You don't want content. You want to waste time and learning a difficult language is the ultimate time waster since it will take you a long time and you convinced yourself that their material will make you good someday. If you knew Japanese you'd be asking if you should learn Korean to study from the Korean references next. The reason the Western ones weren't good enough for you is because you don't even want to learn in the first place.

>> No.6099300

>>6099268
the lengths /ic/ will go to do anything but actually fucking draw

>> No.6099301

>>6099288
>Living in tokyo seems like a dream desu
It's a dream because of the Japanese people there who made it a dream. If people like you go there it will no longer be a dream. It will be shit. No, you're not the exception.

>> No.6099307

>>6099288
It's great to be a tourist there but living in a 1 room apartment near the last stop of the cramped sardine-can train and having to work 18 hour days looks fucking awful.
Plus if you aren't japanese or aren't already well known to them then good luck getting anywhere. In eu and us you get bonus good boy points for being foreign in any art related industry.

>> No.6099310

>>6099246
Don't they all teach the same thing anyway no matter what the language? The pictures might be more fun to look at but that's it. Whatever this book teaches you can probably learn in an english one

>> No.6099314

>>6099307
>In eu and us you get bonus good boy points for being foreign in any art related industry.

Not for much longer.

>> No.6099315

>>6099288
>Living in tokyo seems like a dream desu

I guarantee you its not. There's a fine difference between visiting Tokyo and actually living there.

And yeah their anime looks nice but that all changes when you become an animator and realize that the pay is so bad that you have to take on work for multiple projects to make ends meet.

>> No.6099320
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6099320

>>6099297

>> No.6099323

>>6099307
>Plus if you aren't japanese or aren't already well known to them then good luck getting anywhere
people say this all the time, but is there actually any basis in fact for this? There's a whole youtube channel called "tonari animation" which focuses on getting foreigners into the anime industry

>> No.6099325

>>6099320
You know it to be true.

>> No.6099333

>>6099315
animation kinda sucks in general, but about storyboarding, background painting, art directing, etc? I've heard of foreigners landing those jobs, lots of Gobelins graduates work in anime apparently. Gobelins even has a study abroad internship program with studios in Japan

>> No.6099336

>>6099333
Should I learn French so I can try to get into Gobelins then learn Japanese so I might be able to get a job in Japan and learn Japanese in Japan so I can be able to read their Japanese books and start to draw?

>> No.6099338

>>6099336
>Gobelins
they have courses taught in english

>> No.6099358

>>6099338
Oh, it's all animation stuff. I just wanted to learn to draw Wakfus.

>> No.6099360

>>6099336
>Gobelins
Dream on kiddo

>> No.6099363
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6099363

go draw nigger

>> No.6099364

>>6099360
It's in the trash heap called Paris so it can't be that prestigious. At least not for too much longer at this rate.

>> No.6099374

>>6099363
>less than 1k reviews for each one
yeah they definitely dont use these shit books.

>> No.6099485

>>6099246
>spends 10 years learning moon runes to read superior jap textbooks
>wtf it's just loomis

>> No.6099493

>>6099246
short answer: no
long answer? sticky, or, post your work and well give advice on what to read.

>> No.6099498

>>6099246
Its more worth learning Chinese and Korean, Japanese people dont like to share what they know online and their books are mostly shorthand techniques

>> No.6099507

>>6099268
the funny thing is that he wont learn japanese either

>> No.6099518

>>6099246
>will spend hundreds of hours mastering new language
>wont spend 10 minutes just drawing

permabeg

>> No.6099520

>>6099498
Is the Chinese internet rich, like the English-language internet? How many books are published in Chinese versus English versus Japanese?

>> No.6099526

>>6099520
I dunno but there's a lot of hours of chinese instruction online. I have like 170gb saved from the old mega.

>> No.6099532

>>6099520
I can't speak to Chinese internet as a whole but the amount of resources they have is massive, they'll even sub entire English-speaking courses. They probably have 95% of the books we have.

>> No.6099538
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6099538

>>6099532

>> No.6099544

>>6099246
Imagine learning Japanese in some vain hope that Japanese art books will magically unlock the secrets of art instead of just taking up a pencil and some paper and practicing drawing with the help of the resources already available to you in English.

>Yusuke Murata uses Loomis construction albeit modified to his personal tastes, as all artist who use it do.

>> No.6099549

>>6099246
you need to get out of this mindset that just because you like how something looks doesn't mean its a good resource or vice versa. Like if its a recommended resource, pay attention to what the artist is trying to teach before anything

Keys to Drawing is often disliked because people think the guy can't draw but all his book teaches is observation drawing. An important skill if you're trying to learn to draw, yes even anime.

>> No.6099551

>>6099288
lmao under-aged retard

>> No.6099556

>>6099538
「VILPPU」老師!我向你磕頭。

>> No.6099557

>>6099538
When is this getting translated?

>> No.6099563

>>6099544
That reminds me, did anon ever finish translating that Hetappi R book?

>> No.6099579

>>6099325
That guy is not op
>implying time spent developing a skill is a waste
if we want to talk about time wasters you should give up art
Become an electrician or plumber

>> No.6099750

>>6099518
I have the darndest feeling he won't get very far in nihongo either...

>> No.6099760
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6099760

>>6099557
got me

>> No.6099790
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6099790

>>6099246

>> No.6099912

>>6099246
I dont think that most casuals will gain more knowledge with this than with western books
but if you have enough free time,i think that's gonna be more worthful to your life,
as a professional.

>> No.6099915

>>6099256
Because unlike the slanty eyed bugmen that infest your mind westerns are able to critic and question what they read.

>> No.6099920

>>6099915
NTA but dang your comprehension and intellect is shit

>> No.6099927

>>6099920
Whoa whoa relax their take a seat janny. Put down the broom. You will never be a real woman.

>> No.6099928

>>6099927
low iq response

>> No.6099940

>>6099928
You think im gonna make some cringe post to prove how smart i am?

I understand that you are doing an epic le smug face right now and thinking damn i sure got him.

But understand this janny you will never be a woman, your tiny asian cock is made to submit to a stronger man and that is your role in life.

>> No.6099946

>>6099246
>It seems like their artists draw so much better
That's because you're only seeing the good ones retard
Go on a Japense social netwerk and you will see crabs and begs

That's exactly like pondering "I wonder why Asian people are so good at math and intelligent, is it perhaps their GENETICS?!"

NO RETARD! It's because the dumb ones don't fucking migrate to America!!!! they stay in their shitty rice fields! fucking idiot

race doesnt exist

>> No.6099951
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6099951

>>6099946
even the so called bad ones are better than all the bad western artists on social media

>> No.6099954

>>6099951
You are only seeing the good ones this is a survivor's error, this is a mental stereotype you have produced in your head
Asians can be just as retarded and talentless and skill-lacking as you and me

>> No.6099957

>>6099954
No I'm definitely coming across "bad" art and it still mogs even the general population of /beg/.

>> No.6099962

>>6099957
Because its all symbol drawings anon. This is like me drawing micky mouse as a kid and you saying wow it must be a in born talent about being white and being able to draw disney characters.

>> No.6099971

>>6099912
>but if you have enough free time,i think that's gonna be more worthful to your life,
as a professional.
Could you elaborate on your thoughts on this? I'd love to hear more. I need encouragement in learning Japanese, I think

>> No.6100111

>>6099971
Not that anon but learning Japanese opens up the online japanese speaking art community for you to draw information from. Generally, the more people you can network with, the better. On the other hand, you could also just learn French.

>> No.6100173

>>6100111
is it worth it to learn Japanese for that?

>> No.6100189
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6100189

>>6099246
>>learning
learn to use AI instead

>> No.6100205

>>6099246
Or just hire a professional translator.
It is crucial for artist nowadays to learn Japanese to survive as an independent artist. Otherwise be happy wageslaving for faggots

>> No.6100207

>>6100189
ho damn

>> No.6100211

>to even begin learning to draw you must first study and master one of the most difficult languages on the planet and spending upwards of 3-5 years of studying while in country(according to the cia)
>only then can you even think about getting gud

You guys are jackasses lol. This is the same shit with drawabox.

>> No.6100213

>>6100211
with ajatt you can achieve fluency in 18 months, while learning to draw at the same time!

>> No.6100227

>>6100213
how many languages do you know?

>> No.6100235

>>6100227
2: English and Drawing

>> No.6100244

>>6100173
Idk. I just know that knowing more languages gives you access to more resources. I do know that japanese manga drawing manuals generally advocate loomis-esque construction albeit adapted to the big head manga style.

>> No.6100362

>>6099927
embarrassing display, faggot

>> No.6100605

>>6099246
In terms of drawing anime specifically yes Japanese is more superior than the West because the logic used in drawing anime is quite different from traditional western logic. Funny enough I learned that from Krenz, which happens to be a Chinese resource.

>> No.6100614

>>6099557
kek

>> No.6100627
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6100627

>>6099256
Shitty bait, all Japanese animators and mangakas learn from Hogarth and Loomis

>> No.6101358

>>6099323
do they show all the stores in japan that have 'foreigners fuck off' in several languages?

lets assume you do make it, the culture itself does not want you, and the second you are of no use you will be deported like every other foreigner they brought in.

>> No.6101362

>>6099310
the concepts are taught world wide, the hard part is finding good teachers.

if you require a teacher, watts has online classes.

>> No.6101417

>>6101358
that's because many foreigners can't speak Japanese so they just go "mendosai!" and put up that sign, right?

>> No.6101492

>>6101417
no you speak the language they still refuses service and will get police involved if necessary.

you go to japan you get to experience as close to what it was like for black people during segregation.

>> No.6101526

>>6101492
yeah they'll ask you to attend different schools and sit at the back of the bus, right? It can't just be the difficult language barrier, right?

>> No.6101552

>>6099246
SUCK MY FAT DICK

>> No.6101583

>>6100627
>Hogarth
fuck no

>> No.6101618

>>6099526
Could you share some, Mr. Artist?

>> No.6101716

>>6101583
You're clueless

>> No.6102006

>>6099256
In regards to what? Drawing anime?

>> No.6102211

>>6099272
The book's cover credits three artists, Kim Lucky, Yun and Chan Jeni. So a Korean, probably Chinese, and a Chinese.

>> No.6102252

>>6102006
top reviews on Loomis' figure drawing book all shit on it. These are the ones with the most amount of "helpful review" clicks. Same with Hampton. They love Vilppu though

>> No.6102257

>>6100627
>hundreds of thousands of jp artists
>only 400 reviews
no they definitely don't, thanks for providing proof

>> No.6102258

>>6102252
Hampton sucks

>> No.6102267

>>6102252
they also love the morpho books

>> No.6102271

>>6102267
I think Morpho's gonna replace Bridgman someday, or at the very least, Hogarth

>> No.6102556

>>6102252
You're just talking bullshit, I went to Hampton and it has 1 bad review out of 10 (and the bad review is hilariously similar to /beg/ complaints here) and the most helpful reviews are 5 star reviews explaining how to use the books and what to expect when buying it.
The loomis figure drawing for all its worth AGAIN has 1 bad review, a fucking autismo level review that I found to be completely wrong after reading 1 paragraph - he says loomis does not show procedure for drawing but pic related is the most straightforward explanation of his procedure you could possibly get.
The other 5 star reviews even mock the bad review.

If you want to just cherry pick the token 1 star reviews then look at stonehouse, it got a 1 star review and is rated the most helpful! Clearly its a useless book!

>> No.6102557
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6102557

>>6102556
Forgot pic related

>> No.6102566

I mean anon, it's always worth to know a new language. Specially from a famous country.

>> No.6102634
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6102634

>>6099246
Learning Japanese takes just as much effort as it takes to learn drawing from Western resources. If you didn't succeed at the later you won't succeed at the former.

>> No.6102640

>>6102634
I've noticed there are people who just like being in the beginner stages of a new skill because you rapidly learn new things with minimal effort and everyone wants to help you out in communities dedicated to that skill.
As soon as it gets too difficult or the beginner resources start being irrelevant they jump ship to the next skill to feel the "new skill learning" endorphins again.

Art, animation, japanese, korean, writing, music, game dev are all common skills that people do this in.
It's also very common in physical sports for people to do this as you can get away with spending very little money on beginner equipment or even use equipment provided by clubs/courses. Then as soon as you are expected to buy your own expensive shit or take up more responsibility in a team they hop to the next sport.

>> No.6102686

>>6099246
What the fuck are you going on about? If you learned nip think of all those untranslated and unlocalized japanese only games and manga and animu you could gain access to.

>> No.6102692

>>6102686
There are already so many translated games I have yet to play.

>> No.6104443

>>6099246
Or you could just look at the visual pictures on said Japanese book? Don't tell us your a non-visual learner.

>> No.6104455

>>6099246
Otherwise, try using an OCR or Jisho.
Also, just keep drawing more and don't be afraid to use Western books, don't waste your time learning moonrunes.

>> No.6104522

>>6099288
>Living in tokyo seems like a dream desu
not as a filthy gaijin

>> No.6104604

>>6102640
>Art, animation, japanese, korean, writing, music, game dev are all common skills that people do this in.
Aside from the languages, the other stuff you listed is mostly creative pursuits. I think people try to protect their egos by writing off creative pursuits as something you can't objectively judge and then they just never improve under that delusion.
>It's also very common in physical sports for people to do this as you can get away with spending very little money on beginner equipment or even use equipment provided by clubs/courses.
First time I've ever heard of this lol but it makes sense.

>> No.6104652

>>6099246
you made me think this was the artbook general and wasted my time stop asking stupid questions i swear this board has the most retarded people

>> No.6104718

>>6099271
>the more books you hoard the more you have the illusion of progress compared to putting in the hours and frustration or true learning

shut up

SHUT UP

>> No.6104733

>>6104718
pyw

>> No.6104789

>>6099246
just learn from the pictures, retard

>> No.6105091

>>6099288
It’s because they demand you all draw the exact same moe style in everything or totally exclude you from certain jobs

>> No.6105095

>>6100213
18 months is not realistic. You can be conversational in 18 months.

>> No.6106935

>>6105095
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/pure-pwnage-how-fluent-was-i-after-18-months/

https://www.britvsjapan.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-learn-japanese/

>> No.6106938

>>6102566
why?

>> No.6106941

>>6102634
JapaneseGaryBen said that learning Japanese was way easier than learning programming, because learning a language is straightfoward but learning program requires ingenuity and creative drive to make your own projects

>> No.6107350

>>6106938
it broadens your horizons

>> No.6107360

>>6107350
people are telling me the drawbacks outweigh the benefits though. Can you share your experience in learning languages? (pretty please?)

>> No.6107406

>>6100211
>the most difficult languages on the planet
only if you are a burger (I'm not joking)

>> No.6109364

bump

>> No.6110545

>>6109364
my kindred soul. 日本語の勉強な頑張ってください!!

>> No.6110629
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6110629

>>6099246
permabegs will do literally anything other than draw, including spending several years learning a dead language to read translated western artbooks
JUST DRAW

>> No.6110880

>>6110629
Could a poor, mud-coated, starving artist in Rwanda learn to draw at the same speed as a high class urbanite American? Same analogy.

>> No.6110909

>>6099246 I quite like some of the japanese art resources but you dont need to know the language to understand it. Just look at the pictures/videos/breakdowns and that should be all you need to learn

>> No.6110917

>>6110909
i love you so much

>> No.6110933
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6110933

>>6099246
Just trace.
Disney did it
Zone archive does.
Why you not?

The drawing elites don’t want you to know this but you can get pic related with tracing and is free. You can trace in home and jerk off with your own drawings. I have 458 traced drawings

>> No.6110937

>>6110933
i find a lot of joy in the learning process and growing my abilities. If you're okay with jerking it to poorly traced waifus fine with me