/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.5130910]

This thread is dedicated to the most important fundie: gesture.

I'm looking for a good resource to work on improving my gesture, I'm thinking of picking up something by Mike Mattesi but not sure where to start. I'd also like an alternative resource because I make the most gains comparing and analyzing different methods.

Post anything gesture related.

[Anonymous No.5130914]

I found combining vilppu gesture with loomis construction to be the best method that works for me. Build up the gesture and then apply the mannequin as construction.

[Anonymous No.5130917]

>>5130914
I've actually finished Vilppu's manual and video course, and while they helped me realize the importance of gesture, I feel like there was very little in them actually going into detail and inner workings of gesture, how to practice it efficiently or how to make it appealing. Loomis' approach to gesture is a bit basic too, but the construction is top notch of course.

[Anonymous No.5131012]

you know how he always goes on and on about how he “worked for disney”, was a disney animator” and so on?
He was an inbetweener trainee on one animation. That’s it. That’s him working for disney.

[Anonymous No.5131699]

>>5131012
I've always known that he's full of shit, especially when he said that even the old renaissance masters used his FORCE™ method

[Anonymous No.5131999]

>>5131012
>you know how he always goes on and on about how he “worked for disney”, was a disney animator” and so on?
>He was an inbetweener trainee on one animation. That’s it. That’s him working for disney.

This.

>>5130917
>appealing

The key word to any gesture discussion.

>>5130910
>Mike Mattesi

Picture related. Do you think this kind of trash would get anyone paid work apart from being an "art teacher"?

[Anonymous No.5132005]

>>5131699
>he doesn’t use the force

[Anonymous No.5132009]

>>5130910
All these old fucks are full of shit. Learn from the true masters of pose and gesture - anime artists

[Anonymous No.5132014]

I find Steve Huston a great teacher for combining gesture and structure. I was good in gesture, I was good in structure, but never both at the same time. That is, until I did Huston.

If you can't feel gesture yet, copying force drawings can help you a ton. But it only helped me because I had previous experience with the stuff and force only made it click

[Anonymous No.5132021]

>>5131699
he probably saw a few stray lines from old master drawings and used it to reaffirm what he already thinks about drawing and then build entire lessons on them. he teaches anatomy in a digestible way, but if his works are really based on old masters, after decades of studying them, his works would be identical to old master drawings. if you want to study renaissance masters study them difectly without an interpreter.

as for learning from teachers, why learn from mediocre artists, which all of them are, even if the lessons are easy to understand?

[Anonymous No.5132023]

explain this force thing. are you guys meming?

[Anonymous No.5132024]

>>5132009
His neck is thicker than his waist, and his ribcage appears to vanish into 2D space in the bottom part, the whole midsection appears like a symbol drawing. This fanart is disrespectful of Araki's good name.

[Anonymous No.5132025]

>>5132009
Nah

[Anonymous No.5132036]

>>5131999
I've been looking at TB Choi's work and I like the way she does gesture, to me it looks like her approach shares a lot of the same principles like Mike's force approach so I was under the impression it might help me achieve something similar or that it might've been her own gesture resource in the first place.

[Anonymous No.5132039]

>>5132023
>explain this force thing.
"Force" is Mike Mattesi's attempt to create a trademark for himself out of something that has always existed - gesture - and that is so basic and simple that it doesn't need any trademarks.

He also cannot draw worth shit. In other words one more american "author" with no skill but a big hunger for money and no conscience against lying and appropriating huge chunks of human tradition as his personal intellectual property.

Just look at this picture. Does this look like the work of someone whose method and skill you want to emulate?

[Anonymous No.5132040]

VILPPU IS GOD!

[Anonymous No.5132041]

>>5132036
More of her work.

[Anonymous No.5132042]

>>5132023
not at all, you have to FEEL the force

[Anonymous No.5132044]

>>5132041

[Anonymous No.5132049]

see, i understand gesture, yah know? ik it just means to capture or exaggerate the flow of a pose, but i can't do it for the life of me. whenever i try to do some lines/cuvers, my hand/brain goes stupid and start to do a shit ton of unnecessary lines. also, it's really hard for me to start to construct the pose from a gesture drawing, but it's easier for me to just start with construction right away. i'm a /beg/ so hopefully i grow out of this retarded phrase after finishing hamptons figure drawing book.

[Anonymous No.5132059]

>>5131999
>Picture related. Do you think this kind of trash would get anyone paid work apart from being an "art teacher"?

There are a lot of top notch teachers who's only paid work is teaching so they can pursue their own art in their down time. Not defending Mattesi but of all the things to criticize about him surely you shouldn't resort to parroting what "industry worker" youtube channels tell you to sell their courses.

[Anonymous No.5132105]

>>5132049
That's the first step, now you have to train yourself to put it into practice

[Anonymous No.5132166]

>>5131999
>>5132039
I mean no one wants to draw like Bridgman yet his books are an invaluable resource for illuminating the forms and masses of the body. The material and its depth and clarity are more important than the artist's work.

[Anonymous No.5132177]

>>5130910
I will never understand why western artists spend so much time practicing drawing lumpy old men with hank hill asses and fridge shaped women with blocky proportions, all because some old men wrote books telling you to

[Anonymous No.5132179]

>>5130910
just draw

[Anonymous No.5132180]

>>5132041
>>5132039
>>5132036
look at all the wasted time drawing this retarded gangly looking alien shit you will literally never use in the business lmao

[Anonymous No.5132181]

>>5132177
I will never understand why eastern artists spend so much time practicing drawing completely flat and lifeless anime girls with shovel faces and cylinder limbs, all because some young horny men online are telling you to

[Anonymous No.5132183]

>>5132181
It makes the easiest money.

[Anonymous No.5132186]

>>5132105
how tho

[Anonymous No.5132197]

>>5132177
>>5132181
I will never understand art.

[Anonymous No.5132200]

>>5132183
>he's in it for the money
ngmi

[Anonymous No.5132204]

>>5132181
>being a homo
unironically ngmi
name 1 fudge packer artist
you can’t

[Anonymous No.5132208]

>Eastern artist
soul

>Western artist
soulless

[Anonymous No.5132234]

>>5132204
Only eastern art has a giant popular and active culture of literal gay/yaoi and trap art

[Anonymous No.5132237]

>>5130910
>most important fundie: gesture
Most important fundamental is perspective.

[Anonymous No.5132243]

>>5132049
>whenever i try to do some lines/cuvers, my hand/brain goes stupid and start to do a shit ton of unnecessary lines.
I drew thousands of pictures before getting anywhere near skillful. Now I make good money off my art. You'll probably need less practice than I did. Trust me that it will get very enjoyable at some point, and relax as you go through your initial struggles. It is not emphasized enough that smooth, flowing, natural linework is exactly what artists train for years and years. It's okay if it takes time.

[Anonymous No.5132244]

>>5132166
Bridgman absolutely useful, Mattesi absolutely not.

[Anonymous No.5132245]

>>5132234
>literal gay/yaoi
made by straight women
>and trap art
made by straight men
go be gay somewhere else, like in a western art thread

[Anonymous No.5132248]

>>5132166
>no one wants to draw like Bridgman
it’s funny because a lot of learning digital artists do in fact paint like him without ever actually studying him
he has that amateurish quality

[Anonymous No.5132257]

>>5132237
>most important fundie: gesture
>Most important fundamental is perspective
Two intellectuals who can't draw arguing over a false theoretical question. Like a pile of formless, immobile ectoplasm wondering if a leg or an arm is the most "fundamental" limb

[Anonymous No.5132267]

>>5132257
well it depends. do these limbs come with hands/feet? if so, arms are. can just use a wheelchair to get to places

[Anonymous No.5132275]

>>5132024
Additional note, Araki references Michaelangelo and shit

[Anonymous No.5132285]

>>5132257
legs for sure, without legs you/re literally a free male for any predator that comes along, you can always adapt to not having arms

[Anonymous No.5132286]

>>5132285
faggot. arms>legs

[Anonymous No.5132291]

>>5132257
Kek

[Anonymous No.5132292]

>>5132286
>nooooo how can I jerk off other men without arms?? arms are best!
kys fag

[Anonymous No.5132294]

>>5132237
Good perspective won't make up for bad gesture, good gesture can make up for the lack of basically everything else. A good gesture is 80% of a successful drawing and everything done on top is done only to enhance and clarify it. We're talking about figure and character drawing of course, since that's what /ic/ is largely focused on, you can use gesture in landscape or environment drawing, but there composition takes over and it still doesn't influence the final work as much as gesture does. Perspective is important in object drawing but I don't think anyone does that for appeal, it's largely a utilitarian concept art field.

[Anonymous No.5132299]

>>5132294
* as much as gesture in figure drawing does

[Anonymous No.5132300]

>>5132294
>good gesture can make up for the lack of basically everything else
it can’t, and you can’t prove it can because you’re just parroting memes

[Anonymous No.5132303]

>>5132292
>evolving to be some pussy ass blob that mainly runs away with their girly ass legs instead of a chad blob that uses their muscular arms to choke out any other
predator
the absolute state of leg fags right now

[Anonymous No.5132311]

>>5132303
>arm sissies can't even meme-text right
oh i'm laffin

[Anonymous No.5132316]

>>5132300
Yep, it can

[Anonymous No.5132332]

>>5132300
these anons are crabs and trolls, don't bother with them

[red-sketch-anon !!JQ4C8WMEsFI No.5132350]

>>5130910
Combination of the way Vilppu pulls and pushes on the pen to greatly vary the line-weight and highlight certain curves in the body, with Proko's bean method as a fast way to get the eye to start blocking in other details and to build from there, combined with Steve Huston's method of quickly getting the angle of the head.

[red-sketch-anon !!JQ4C8WMEsFI No.5132362]

>>5132049
What this anon said: >>5132243

It does start to click eventually and you start to have far more fun with drawing when your stuff starts to look like the stuff you've been trying to copy when watching these lessons. I know it doesn't feel like improvement is happening at times, but force your way through it.

[Anonymous No.5132363]

>>5132300
Think of gesture as interior design, you can use the highest quality pieces and techniques to put a room together, but if the initial idea for the design was bad, nothing is going to salvage it. Most other fundies are largely mechanical and easily replicated by a computer, but gesture is the human touch that makes it come alive, it's something that another living person has to identify on their own, and then relate it to you through drawing.

Even pic related is gesture, because it is using drawn media to relate an emotion to you through exaggeration for effect. A "construction" approach to the same idea would have you face a mirror and show you a real picture of you, which would be technically more accurate, but not nearly what it feels like.

[Anonymous No.5132367]

>>5131012
you do realize successful artists dont teach right?
Proko, Vilppu, Sinix, Modern Day James, Marshall.
None of them work in the industry that's why they teach.
Kinda like a real school.
The only exception is L-man himself. One of the most successful illustrators of his time.

[Anonymous No.5132377]

>>5132362
would you recommend i switch to vilppu to learn gesture/figure drawing? i'm only on page 30 of hamptons book, so it wouldn't be a big deal to read/watch something else.

[Anonymous No.5132378]

>>5132285
>free male

[Anonymous No.5132387]

>>5132267
>wheelchair
Evolving straight from ectoplasm to a creature that can build a rad wheelchair yet doesn't have legs

[Anonymous No.5132389]

>>5132387
yes

[red-sketch-anon !!JQ4C8WMEsFI No.5132391]

>>5132377
I have Hampton's book and it's great, but not that good for really understanding gesture. He's good for learning anatomy. For Vilppu, you want to focus more on his movements and less on trying to copy exactly what he's putting down on the page. I mean in general I recommend looking at as many instructors as possible for a certain topic to see how each one tackles it. It helps things click faster IMO and you'll find someone's method that you prefer.

[Anonymous No.5132393]

>>5132377
I like to use vilppu gesture and then apply a loomis mannequin on top of it. It works for me. No rules only tools.

[Anonymous No.5132399]

>>5132350
>Vilppu pulls and pushes
Oh, is that what the nervous jerking motions are that all the "atelier" teachers do? I never knew it had an actual purpose, thought it was just an stupid affectation

[Anonymous No.5132402]

so when will i be able to draw big boobed brown anime girls with this so called gestured and figure drawing

[Anonymous No.5132406]

>>5132367
>you do realize successful artists dont teach right?
Exactly. Look at anyone with truly stunning art on Artstation (or any other site or gallery) and you will never, that is never, see a tutorial or a course, not free and not paid. Nor do the lame course aggregators like Bobby Chiu manage to ever enlist them. If they ever accidentally produce a course on one of the more expensive course sites, it will be gone within a year as they realise how little money they make for giving their personal techniques away to their competitors.

[red-sketch-anon !!JQ4C8WMEsFI No.5132429]

>>5132399
Yeah, it actually does help as weird as it looks. They do this because when doing gesture, you need to go more on pure instinct and letting your eyes guide you and make quick decisions on where a key spot to highlight is. They do this because they're essentially "in the zone" and in auto-pilot mode.

[Anonymous No.5133692]

How are you supposed to practice gesture

[Anonymous No.5133708]

>>5133692
Vilppu says the best way to practice gesture is to draw from imagination. Or to make your own compositions.

Gesture has nothing to do with being forceful or exaggerating the pose. Its acting, body language, storytelling, posing, and expressiveness. So you can only learn to do that by having an idea and trying to make that idea the best that you can.

I used to recommend people do quickpose gesture drawing sessions but I've come to realize that's about the slowest and worst way to improve your drawing. Best way to improve is to draw from imagination, and then study references when you get stuck. Second best way to do studies (untimed) where you study a reference or another artists' drawing to the point where you got what you wanted to get out of it. (that'll be more clear to you the better you get at drawing) So draw a lot and do your best at drawing.

[Anonymous No.5133709]

>>5132166
>no one wants to draw like Bridgman
I do, I think his stuff looks rad

[Anonymous No.5133739]

>>5133708
I've never heard Vilppu say that. Though he places considerable emphasis on the benefits of drawing from imagination, he still recommends drawing from the model the same as any figure drawing teacher does.

I also feel like you're focusing too much on the subjective element to gesture. If you think of gesture only in terms of "expressiveness" you miss its utility as a way of describing how the forms of the body connect in a concrete sense. That to me is the most emblematic characteristic of Vilppu's approach.

[Anonymous No.5133744]

>>5133739
Vilppu said that in his gesture lecture on new masters. Its 4 hrs long and it surprised me too.

And you're right, gesture is also composition and rhythm. But I don't know how else to study that other than by studying anatomy. A big part of anatomy is how forms link and wedge into each other, and drawing gestural rhythms will never teach you that.

[Anonymous No.5133787]

>>5133744
>Vilppu said that in his gesture lecture on new masters
I recalling him saying this is how the old masters themselves drew most of the time, so it makes sense. But they also copied previous masters' artwork for thousands of hours

[Anonymous No.5133807]

>>5133744
I've watched that lecture too. I don't recall it.

Composition and rhythm are not what I was talking about. I'm referring to its function as a kind of wireframe that you apply forms on top of. It would not be of much use for that if you weren't constantly thinking about the observable physical behavior of the figure in front of you. "Body language" and so on is just a consequence of that.

Strange that you bring up needing anatomy to show forms linking when that is basically already in his lesson on spheres.

>>5133787
That's not to say, though, that it's the way they LEARNED to draw gesture, let alone "the best way" it could be learned.

[Anonymous No.5134079]

This again?

Can't people just accept that gesture is the long axis of a form and that it just takes practice to play with the concepts of what looks natural and how far the natural movement can be exaggerated?

I swear it makes artists look retarded when 90% of any community is waxing poetically about something they clearly don't even understand.

[Anonymous No.5134095]

>>5133807
Yes, spherical forms is a function of expressing the gesture. So is the box form, the cylinder form, and the rest of his lecture. All of drawing is to further clarify the gesture.

I bring up anatomy because you can't draw the figure without knowing what it looks like. So if you really want to study how parts flow into each other, you have to study anatomy.

But gesture is the body language and attitude of the figure. He explicitly says it in his drawing manual. That's also why he brings up many ways to capture the gesture. You can do it with the chamois or with straight lines like Rubens, along with his rhythmic method.

Gesture as rhythm comes from composition. It's not just a wireframe. Composition is the rhythm of parts to build to a whole, to tell a story. (at least that's how he teaches composition) So in analyzing the composition of old master paintings, he would draw the figures first with rhythms, then build on top of that. So his way of doing gesture comes from his compositional studies, but there's no hard and fast rules to capturing the gesture.

The gesture is the idea, the story, the pose. The body language and the attitude. when animators study gesture, they don't just study how to exaggerate the pose. They study action analysis. They study the movement of things in reality and how things actually beahve. They study mannerisms, behavior, idiosyncracies, instinctual expressions of animals, the way drapery blows in the wind, etc. Gesture is hard because its basically acting. How do you act? How do you behave? Where do you put your hands when you're nervous and uncomfortable? What does someone's face look like when they're nervous?

[Anonymous No.5134252]

>>5132059
Very good points. I never listen to what any teacher says about their own art or the promises they give you though. Their work does the speaking. Mattesi, I have nothing to learn from him.

[Anonymous No.5134565]

Rate my gesture

[Anonymous No.5134927]

>>5134095
post your work, I guarantee you can’t draw for shit

[Anonymous No.5134946]

>Vilppu
essential
>Hampton
Just a watered down vilppu
>Loomis
Can be skipped but has some valuable info
>Proko
shit
>Mattesi
literally who
>Anyone not listed
not worth listening to

[Anonymous No.5134964]

>>5132166
i actually love bridgman's style when it comes to full figures, they have a real sturdy feel to them yknow

[Anonymous No.5134969]

>>5132204
>name 1 fudge packer artist
dont forget michelangelo too

[Anonymous No.5134971]

>>5134964
Bridgman is the definition of thicc

[Anonymous No.5134973]

>>5132303
>thinking that puny arm with small muscles can beat legs having naturally huge muscles that carry your whole body around
sorry, but legs are simply bigger and stronger, you can train dexterity with your toes if you grow up without arms and if someone fucks with you you just kick their shit in, legs are longer too so you'll keep some distance, they are just better armfag

[Anonymous No.5135002]

>>5134927
Why do you think that?

[Anonymous No.5135042]

>>5134095
I'm saying that the gesture already IS "how parts flow into each other." The reason that applying form clarifies the gesture is because the gesture is to begin with an abstraction of form. Body language, attitude, story, etc. are all based in observation of what the form is doing mechanically (twisting, bending, stretching, etc.). The subjective meaning you read into the pose and the physical reality of the pose are two sides of the same coin. That is gesture.

[Anonymous No.5135053]

>>5135002
pyw

[Anonymous No.5135518]

>>5132237
All other fundies are like the cheerleader effect of drawing, they distract and mask the real idea underneath, gesture is like seeing the girl the morning after without makeup in her true state, if she's still beautiful then you know it's real

[Anonymous No.5135591]

>>5135518
post your work

[Anonymous No.5135594]

Does anyone know any other good websites for poses like sketchdaily? I keep bumping into the same ones.

[Anonymous No.5135608]

>>5135518
>a virgin begtard posting about makeup and art

[Anonymous No.5135645]

>>5135042
Anon, you're saying the same thing I'm saying. Gesture is the way forms are arranged. It's placement. How is that any different from studying body language, attitude, posing, and acting? It's how parts are related to each other to convey a "whole" or a "total"

>>5135053
>no argument
'pyw' is the weakest thing you could say to anyone in an argument. Give me a better alternative of what you think gesture is. Apparently you believe gesture is just a art-school exercise where you just scribble.

[Anonymous No.5135649]

>>5134565
i tried it too

[Anonymous No.5135650]

>>5135608
pyw

[Anonymous No.5135659]

I don't have the talent for gesture

[Anonymous No.5135663]

>>5135659
thats 1st day gesture
Proko
3rd day Vilppu

[Anonymous No.5135667]

>>5135663
It looks like you're copying others' gestures, you should be identifying them in real figures on your own

[Anonymous No.5135699]

>>5135667
Those are my own though, would you say that's because I don't have talent

[Anonymous No.5135720]

>>5130910
i disagree my friend. proportion and perspective are much more important keys to the drawing. You can get away with no gesture at all, or improper gesture but cannot get away with shitty proportions and bad perspective.

[Anonymous No.5135731]

>>5135645
All is well then. I'm just making sure we agree. From what I've seen some people hear that gesture is "the story" and come away thinking that means it's something more esoteric than it is, not realizing that it really is the same thing as "arranging forms" and so on. That's why I think it's important to talk about gesture from as many angles as possible to avoid any confusion.

[Anonymous No.5135737]

>>5135645
>noooo you should argue with an obvious /beg/ retard using arguments about his oblivious romanticised idea of drawing
pyw

[Anonymous No.5135739]

>>5135594
https://www.quickposes.com/en
http://senshistock.com/sketch/#
http://oh-hi.info/#
Hope these work for you. Also check out Croquis Café.

[Anonymous No.5135747]

>>5132377
Don’t get stuck on one instructor. Try multiple (Vilppu, Hampton, Huston etc.) and draw along side them. Hampton also has a video course to go alongside his book so it’s worth checking that out.

[Anonymous No.5135752]

>>5134946
Hampton’s method is different to Vilppu’s

[Anonymous No.5136277]

>>5134565
That's pretty good, anon!

[Anonymous No.5136285]

>>5135752
hampton's book is just having another guy explain vilppu to you

[Anonymous No.5136306]

>>5136285
Imo Hampton goes far more in depth with gesture than villpu does, even explaining how the spine relates to the gesture of a drawing and the relationship of the rib cage and pelvis. At least in hamptons book compared to Vilppu it’s better IMO


Also check this video out op:

https://youtu.be/sSzB3ESpfE0

[Anonymous No.5136946]

>>5135739

Thanks, anon.

[Anonymous No.5137237]

Loomis doesn't bring up gesture because his book was released before gesture became mainstream thanks to Nicholades. The mannequin IS still gesture related, it's just more emphasis on construction.

[Anonymous No.5137268]

Hey /ic/. Rather new at this and trying to learn vilppu's gesture method since it clicked with me recently. I'm trying to capture the pose but when I'm flowing the lines into each other in the first stage I feel like I'm doing something compositionally wrong so it's not capturing the essense of the pose. Could I get some feedback? Posting samples of practice drawings w/ reference images.

[Anonymous No.5137271]

>>5137268

Cont, felt this one came out better than expected.

[Anonymous No.5137272]

>>5137271

Cont

[Anonymous No.5137276]

>>5137272

Cont

[Anonymous No.5137277]

>>5137276

Fin.

[Anonymous No.5137288]

>>5137268
>>5137271
>>5137272
>>5137276
>>5137277
How did you manage to "feel the form" like vilppu said to?

[Anonymous No.5137596]

Proko makes the most sense when it comes to gesture.

[Anonymous No.5137607]

>>5137596
Proko method completely falls apart on any pose that isn't curated like the ones in his videos.

[Anonymous No.5137613]

>>5137596
The entire point of gesture is that it's loose and relatable to you, it's the fundie where freedom and your own take are encouraged

[Anonymous No.5137653]

>>5137607
how so

[Anonymous No.5137661]

>>5137653
Because his poses are unnatural as hell

[Anonymous No.5137672]

>>5130910
>makes a thread dedicated to gesture.
>OP isn't even a gesture drawing.

Yup, this is /ic/

[Anonymous No.5137674]

>>5137607
>>5137661
Proko is just as valid as vilppu is.

[Anonymous No.5137679]

>>5137672
Everything is gesture

[Anonymous No.5137682]

>>5137674
Hamptons is the best though

[Mike Mattesi No.5137695]

>>5137277
Hi, I'm Mike Mattesi and this is how you use the Force method to draw like the old masters

[Anonymous No.5137699]

>>5137679
Gesture is everything

[Anonymous No.5137700]

I suck at arms and legs. How do I do it like vilppu?

[Anonymous No.5137735]

>>5137288

You start with drawing the head. You can either use an oval or another fitting shape to represent it. I've started doing loomis method of drawing a circle then filling the jaw since I drew these and posted them
because it works with my brain/current drawing skill better. Draw a dot on the top of the head if you need to to help show its orientation. Drawing an axis can help orient the head too. Draw a line coming down from the head in the direction the neck/spine is flowing. This doesn't have to necessarily be the contour of the neck.

From there find curves or lines on the subject's body you can use to "flow" down the body and alternate them. Women with hourglass figures are really easy to do this on. Do this for the body then the subject's legs. Then place some lines on your gesture to represent their arms. Fill in something to represent their feet and hands and you're done. From there you move on to the next stage which is using circles to round out the bits of the body.

I find Vilppu is pretty dreadful at explaining his own method most of the time and rambles on a lot rather than getting straight to the point. I had to piece this all together using various bits of information from him from various sources. Here's some things that helped me understand it:

Watching him draw something from imagination (When you know the process watching him draw is really helpful):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JqxCEafxeI

Watching the process from someone else:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1jVuX0nQuc

Vilppu himself explains it a convention or some kind of show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij_-HStl04o

I'm by no means an expert but I understand the basic process. I'm producing "okay" to "bad" gestures at the moment but not amazing ones.

[Anonymous No.5137761]

>>5137661
Why doesn't his method work on "natural" poses?

[Anonymous No.5138440]

>>5132402
You will have the knowledge to make the best looking big boobed brown anime girls, you will be able to draw boobs with gesture

[Anonymous No.5138443]

>>5135663
o god talent fag, not even that bad stop dude. writing cringe shit and adding x's

[Anonymous No.5140528]

[Anonymous No.5140812]

>>5132044
man i should copy more people work

[Anonymous No.5140892]

>>5132180
not who your replying to but TB Choi literally draws for major AAA game developers maybe go outside for once..?

[Anonymous No.5141153]

>>5140892
just like mike “worked for disney”, refer to >>5131012
also sakimichan “worked on mass effect”, but oops actually none of her work made it into the game

[Anonymous No.5141170]

>>5140892
i think he's legitimately retarded

[retard No.5141211]

Do I learn anatomy before gesture?

[Anonymous No.5141274]

>>5141211
you do not need to learn gesture as it is commonly taught. if you just mean how to pose figures in the general sense, that comes from experience of coming up with fitting poses for the purpose and is specific to the case. once you know anatomy, know when something is off and know from experience how a body part looks from most angle, you will naturally be able to draw straight into contours and details, and it would have a more appropriate progression into a finished drawing. draw from imagination, visualize before putting the lines on paper, look at references when you are unsure.

[Anonymous No.5141504]

>>5130910
>"fundie"
>American using "chill" smalltalk
Ngmi

[Anonymous No.5141592]

>>5132014
daddy Huston is the only one worth mentioning here

[Anonymous No.5141717]

>>5141153
Who did you work for that we should take your opinion over theirs

[Anonymous No.5141734]

>>5141274
>it's anatomically correct so it has to be good design!
wrong

[Anonymous No.5141749]

>>5141211
if you still havent tried gesture im assuming youre a day 0 /beg/. try doing a little bit of gesture just to start

youre going to be absolute shit at it, it's probably going to look like >>5137268 this anon. Which isn't bad, that's how pretty much everyone starts out. That's cause you don't have good control over your strokes and feeling form yet. So then I recommend grinding dynamic sketching, basic forms, perspective, and just drawing a fuckton for a good while, you can even study a bit of anatomy in the meantime.

Then return to gesture and you'll find that it's so much easier. Then you grind anatomy.

[Anonymous No.5143323]

Can someone give an example of two similar drawings, one made with an advanced sense and skill in gesture, and one made with little to no skill in gesture but otherwise similar to the first one

[Anonymous No.5143339]

>>5130910
gesture isn't important, proportion is. You can have good proportion and structure and get away with bad gesture, look at Peter Han.

Animation is a different story though.

[Anonymous No.5145207]

Loomis combines both gesture and construction in one.

[Anonymous No.5145281]

>>5131012
Anybody who constantly namedrops soulless corporations to give themselves "credibility" is a fraud. Reminds me of that other guy, chris oatley, another shitty art teacher that worked on direct to DVD garbage but never let an appearance go by without mentioning he was former Disney.

[Anonymous No.5145295]

ive been told im pretty good at gesture. what do u guys think?

[Anonymous No.5145302]

>>5145295
I can't tell what I'm looking at so it's bad. The point of gesture is to clarify and communicate.

[Anonymous No.5145333]

>>5145295
is it a frog?

[Anonymous No.5145350]

>>5145295
Not really gesture. Gesture typically is a full body, showing a movement or action. I can kind of see what these might be. Focus on the full form, capture the movement and energy.

[Anonymous No.5145352]

>>5143339
you got that shit upside-down back to front bro, gesture is king, confident gesture will smooth other broken bones, wonky proportions and iffy perspective. Perfect structure and proportion alone will get you stiff manikin shit that everyone is going to hate even if its technically brilliant.

[Anonymous No.5145405]

Any resources on how to use and apply gesture in faces and expressions

[Anonymous No.5145421]

>>5145302
>>5145350
>>5145352
lmao get baited

[Anonymous No.5145438]

>>5145421
the madlad

[Anonymous No.5145444]

>>5145421
Whoa almost as if when you post cropped and flipped personal arcane explorations of a gesture master presenting them as something you as an amateur did for something that's meant to be seen by others will create a false effect, you must be so clever anon also guys rate my portrait hehe

[Anonymous No.5145458]

>>5145421
uhmm actually that gesture is good and so advanced that it seems bad because vilppu is such a master that a normal man cannot conceive of the the things he sees when he draws
your a fucking ngmi crab

[Anonymous No.5145462]

>>5145458
This but unironically

[Anonymous No.5145468]

>>5145405
erm ah erm uhm gesturebros what do we say when they want to draw stuff that’s not contorted naked old bodies??????? Please respond

[Anonymous No.5145470]

>>5145468
“I’m not that kind of artist”

[Anonymous No.5145479]

>>5145470
thanks gesturebro, should I say it in a condescending tone? I wouldn’t want them to know that it’s because I CANT do it

[Anonymous No.5145483]

>>5140528
The most cute and understandable gesture guide I ever seen.

[Anonymous No.5145486]

>>5145444
There's nothing "arcane" about it, they look the same as what you find in his Drawing Manual.

Accept your loss.

[Anonymous No.5145499]

>>5145486
No the ones in the manual are all very clear and informative because they were drawn for education purposes, I have the manual right here.

[Anonymous No.5145523]

I still don't know how to understand or practice gesture, if I try I only get amorphous blobs which barely resemble a human. Most people teaching it just pull a figure out of their ass using internalized knowledge with seldom any explanation of the process and tell you to use your fee fees. How do I learn it?

[Anonymous No.5145556]

>>5145523
Literally just keep doing whatever your idea of gesture is and your brain will eventually internalize what works and reject what doesn't work and it'll click on its own. Don't be afraid of making mistakes because the key is in a large volume of work, everyone has to go through a phase of stuff that doesn't look good so don't get hung up if your first couple of months or even longer look like shit. Keep referring to other successful artists' work every now and then to see how they do things and how you could implement that in your own work, look for artists who do gesture that appeals to you, try to imagine what the full figure would look like and try to deduce what decided how the gesture is mapped to that figure. I'd also recommend Vilppu's NMA course on gesture because he keeps going over the basic principles so many times it really speeds up your learning process.

[Anonymous No.5145777]

>>5130910
>Most important
I would say the most important fundie is perspective, once I learned some perspective my drawings really started getting much better

[Anonymous No.5145798]

>>5145777
I agree with this guy, you can master values, color theory, line weight, etc, and it'll all look 2D anyway if you can't draw it from an angle that could actually be appreciated by an observer in 3D space

[Anonymous No.5145807]

>>5145556
>Just keep doing the wrong thing over and over until magically isn't wrong anymore, try to decipher all the internalized knowledge of other artists from nothing all while being absolutely ignorant about mostly everything you need to know to do this
Got any real advice that isn't crabbing?

[Anonymous No.5145820]

>>5145807
>All advice is crabbing

[Anonymous No.5145827]

>>5145807
Knowledge can only come from within, you could sit a drawing layman with the best art instructor on the planet to explain all the theory, and the layman still wouldn't be able to apply any of it before grinding it out and carving the necessary neural paths and ways of thinking into his brain through repetition.

I sometimes look at my old art from before I understood depth, forms, perspective etc and they all show some signs of them but purely from a symbol-drawing level since I didn't actually understand them, and I wonder what the hell was I even thinking. That's the only type of "knowledge" you can have without putting in the hours.

[Anonymous No.5145829]

>>5145820
Bad advice intended to sabotage either by ignorance or malice counts as crabbing.

[Anonymous No.5145830]

>>5145807
>Got any real advice that isn't crabbing?
that's how drawing works though

[Anonymous No.5145833]

>>5145807
Did you miss the entire last sentence of that post which points him to the best gesture art instructor on the planet who explains everything you need to know to do this.

[Anonymous No.5145837]

>>5145833
>Feel the form
Thanks, now I'm a great artist

[Anonymous No.5145839]

>>5145829
If it's just ignorant how can it be "intended" to sabotage. Whenever I see someone shout CRABBING it's because anything short of a magic "be good at drawing spell" isn't good enough advice for them

[Anonymous No.5146564]

>>5130910
Your pic isn't gesture you dumb fuck. Also Vilppu and also Vilppu.

[Anonymous No.5146878]

>>5145421
eyeah the gestures there are way too lose, the one on the bottom kinda cropped out looks pretty good tho

[Anonymous No.5146893]

Hi is this gesture? I don't like Vilppu, I don't get him

[Anonymous No.5146901]

>>5146893

[Anonymous No.5146965]

For me the whole point of gesture is to be able to build upon it into a decent figure drawing.
Speed and looseness of gesture should be a long-term goal but if they are completely inaccurate they are worthless for anything other than selling to middle age women to hang on their wall.
Starting out with the Watts or Proko gesture makes the most sense to me. You start out spending a LOT of time on your gestures to practice confident C, S, I lines and accuracy. You build on the gestures with form, anatomy and shading.
Then when you have experience and confidence doing it slow you start doing it faster and faster, getting the freshness of a quick gesture but still trying to retain accuracy to build upon.

Gesture is NOT the final product. Similar to construction/form, you practice it as a student in a blunt and step by step manner but eventually you want to become intuitive with it so you can incorporate it into an observational sketch, a character design, a 2 hour graphite figure drawing, an animation frame etc without even thinking.

[Anonymous No.5146980]

>>5146965
And by a lot of time on gestures I mean you start with 30 minute, accurate gestures for a few days then move onto quick ones for a few days and then limit pure gesture study to your 15 minute warmups in the morning. You should not be spending weeks or months JUST doing gesture. Gesture is a part of every figure you will ever draw in your life, you will be practicing it every day just by drawing people and keeping your earlier training in mind.

[Anonymous No.5146983]

>>5146893
>>5146901
Read Nicolaides’ the natural way to draw, he basically teaches what you’re doing, and pretty much all modern ideas of gesture come from him, including muh feel da form and taking the pose yourself to feel muh stretch muh pinch

[Anonymous No.5146993]

>>5146965
So this is >>5146893
>>5146901
useless then?
What about pic related? I really don't get gesture at all even more so when they talk about contours and feeling the form, that's alien to me.
>>5146983
I got the basic idea from him yes but I can't do the book, I don't have a live model so it's impossible for me to do it, shame because I hate like really really hate Vilppu

[Anonymous No.5146998]

>>5146993
Shit I posted the worst page out of that batch, see this>>5135659

[Anonymous No.5147239]

>>5134565
damn nice, i tried it too

[Anonymous No.5148927]

bump

[Anonymous No.5149152]

>>5141734
never wrote that.
what do you think fitting a pose for the purpose means? knowing when something is off is not just a matter of knowing if something is anatomically correct or not, but of sensing good design. furthermore a design can be good or bad depending on the overall context of the work.

[Anonymous No.5149216]

>>5145295
i knew these were vilppu gestures immediately lol
>>5145350
you are never ever going to make it you faggot

[Anonymous No.5149384]

>>5135649
>>5147239
These look good but have premature contours and are too detailed, gesture should ideally be quick and loose so it's open to interpretation when you start building on it, it shouldn't lock you out of options when it's time to start adding forms and anatomy. Think of it as rebar in a statue.

[Anonymous No.5149433]

>>5146965
>C, S, I lines
I've drawn for decades, make a living off art and have never needed or even heard of that bizarre unnecessary categorisation until recently. You americans truly are obsessed with making nothing into a big deal.

[Anonymous No.5149718]

>>5149384
gotcha, and thanks, i tend to shift to quickly sketching the details instead of focusing on the gesture

[Anonymous No.5151007]

How to finalize hands and fingers in a way that works with the overall gesture? I feel like everything I do with them just puts the rhythm of the figure to a dead stop.

[Anonymous No.5151020]

least important + also gay

[Anonymous No.5151280]

>>5151020
Anime coomer detected

[Anonymous No.5151458]

>>5145807
You have to actively be engaged when drawing
Draw something, figure out what's wrong, draw again, see what's improved
Random changes can be seen as evolution, because just like evolution it's not intended through conscious effort but it can still be analyzed

[Anonymous No.5151500]

>>5141153
>also sakimichan “worked on mass effect”, but oops actually none of her work made it into the game
Still makes more than you ever will

[Anonymous No.5151813]

>>5151007
Details like that are irrelevant to gesture. If you're drawing details like that, you don't get gesture.

[Anonymous No.5151839]

>>5130910

Needs more LOOMIS

[Anonymous No.5151884]

>>5151813
I meant in the final drawing, when all the steps after the gesture are complete, I'm able to make every body part follow the original gesture underneath but hands always look out of place for how mechanical and boxy they are