/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.5108155]

Being self-taught is a meme, you always need to be working on the next step without even knowing what it is or if you're ready for it

It's not impossible but it's fucking hell and I'll take you 3x longer than if you just had a competent teacher

[Anonymous No.5108161]

>>5108155
It's also 100x cheaper tho

[Anonymous No.5108163]

>>5108155
nope. not true.
PYW

[Anonymous No.5108165]

>>5108155
>back
>round
Oh no no no

[Anonymous No.5108167]

>implying competent art teachers exist

[Anonymous No.5108184]

>>5108165
kek

[Anonymous No.5108190]

>>5108165

[Anonymous No.5108192]

>>5108163
Burden of proof is on you

[Anonymous No.5108197]

>>5108165
>>5108190
lol thanks for making this garbage thread worth a click

[Anonymous No.5108245]

>>5108155
Self-taught is the only way to make it. You must have the discipline to teach yourself fundies and other art concepts or you'll just waste your money to hire a mentor/going to school.

[Anonymous No.5108260]

>>5108155
one important lession in life is that a thing YOU might not be able to do - isnt automatically impossible for everyone else.

[Anonymous No.5108274]

Learning by yourself is a requirement to make it on any field. Even in college and beyond you have to learn a vast amount of your major's content by yourself.

[Anonymous No.5108328]

>>5108274
You are conflating two different things, all learning comes from the individual, but what material is presented, at what pace, and which skill level can speed up the process exponentially. A teacher can notice where you're lacking, recommend specific material to address it including practice to best internalize it, while a self-taught person can go years without even noticing something's wrong because teaching yourself is paradoxical, you need to know what to do in order to know what to do, and most progress comes incidentally.

[Anonymous No.5108338]

>>5108155
yeah youre right but these dipshits dont draw so youre really just shouting into the void

[Anonymous No.5108381]

>>5108192
then post faggot. i will if you do.

[Anonymous No.5108386]

>>5108381
Your work should prove how easy it is to improve as a self-taught artist, my work should prove, what exactly?

[Anonymous No.5108391]

>>5108386
having a competent teacher. why are you so afraid to post? just do it?

[Anonymous No.5108405]

>>5108391
I never said I have a competent teacher, I said a lot of my time is spent hunting down my next step, time that could be saved if I had someone to point me in the right direction

[Anonymous No.5108407]

>>5108192
>burden of proof is on the person denying an unproven claim
you suck your daddy’s dick and asshole
>inb4 no
prove it, fag

[Anonymous No.5108410]

>>5108407
So what do you want me to prove and how, to post my shit art to show you how slowly I'm improving?

[Anonymous No.5108413]

>>5108410
Yep. exactly!

[Anonymous No.5108417]

>>5108155
low quality bait

[Anonymous No.5108420]

>>5108410
you’re the one making general claims based on personal lack of experience of having a teacher and demanding people to prove you wrong, what the fuck do you want from me besides pointing out how retarded you are

[Anonymous No.5108433]

>>5108413
I don't see how it contributes to the conversation but here you go.

>>5108420
I don't need experience with a teacher to know I spent a year not improving trying out various methods and resources, and then seeing improvement in my understanding of the theory in a couple of months through the right resources (understanding that is yet to be reflected in my work since I still lack practice). Now it'd be great to know if I should spend some time just grinding out what I know or if I should keep moving on to new stuff all the time and what that stuff should be exactly, and when to move onto it.

[Anonymous No.5108437]

>>5108433
It means you have low iq. The majority of average intelligence people can definitely figure out how to improve quite fast on their own. If you NEED guidance to improve then its pretty sad. definitely ngmi.

[Anonymous No.5108438]

>>5108437
How does high IQ correlate to being able to identify useful vs non-useful resources in a field you have no previous knowledge of, exactly? And where is your work?

>The majority of average intelligence people can definitely figure out how to improve quite fast on their own
Then why are you down here with us low IQ /ic/ brainlet NGMIs then.

[Anonymous No.5108445]

>>5108438
crabs gonna crab, just ignore him

[Anonymous No.5108449]

>>5108155
Most professional artists are self taught.

[Anonymous No.5108451]

>>5108449
No

[Anonymous No.5108457]

>>5108155
if you're scared of self teaching you're fucked. Good art requires some amount of novelty and this is only achieved through self teaching. You shouldn't be trying to figure out basic shit without a decent book but everything important will come from your own observations and processes, the guys who have always done it alone will find this process natural, those who get shit out of Feng zhu's school straight into a souless, efficiency obsessed industry will plateau immediately.

[Anonymous No.5108466]

>>5108155
No one can make you a great artist. You have to do it on your own.

[Anonymous No.5108467]

>>5108438
You have a perfectly good list of resources on this very site, if you just read Loomis and all the other resources instead of spending years wondering and debating if its a meme, you would actually improve.

If you read a bad book here and there its not the end of the world, you face exactly the same problem with good and bad teachers.

[Anonymous No.5108472]

>>5108457
>Feng zhu's school straight into a souless, efficiency obsessed industry will plateau immediately.
they get jobs in the industry they want though with relatively less effort.
meanwhile, doing art 100% with muh soul requires you to be the social media algorithm's bitch until people find out who you are, like your art, and feel ok with donating to your patreon.

[Anonymous No.5108473]

>>5108467
A complete novice could thoroughly read through all the resources recommended here in 6 months to a year, and still barely improve for lack of appropriate practice (which is almost never outlined) or moving on from one resource to another before understanding the previous one.

[Anonymous No.5108480]

>>5108155
honestly if you live in the USA then you're probably better off being self-taught
99% of university art programs are a fucking joke while putting you into debt
if you go to ArtCenter you still take on a mountain of debt that will take forever to pay off, but at least you get taught real fundies and can make connections to get you a real job
but even Vilppu himself quit ArtCenter before he graduated because he felt that he wasn't learning fast enough

[Anonymous No.5108482]

>>5108472
They remain cogs in a machine, while receiving relatively low pay for demanding, high skill work. Which is fine if that's what they want but then the question of why they wanted to be an artist in the first place arises.
>>5108473
The practice schedule isn't about working blindly through thousands of random exercises and the journey to becoming a good artist is never general or generic. It's about first drawing what YOU want to draw and using the resources as tools to allow you to do it better.

[Anonymous No.5108499]

Nope. I see what I want artistically, and I use my gut and my head to lead me to it. Feels as natural as a dog on a scent trail. Still takes clocking in your hours every day, and failure on the micro level is always a reality. In the same way the dog can be misled off the true path.
But on the macro level, I fundamentally get it and have seen the great gains, which just makes me want to do it more and more. Feels pretty fucking great.
Threads like this have always felt like a cope to me and have never shaken my confidence.

[Anonymous No.5108506]

>>5108155
Honestly if you live in the USA then you're probably better off being self-taught anyway
99% of university art programs are a fucking joke while most likely crippling you financially for years to come. A lot of artists who do go to college for art end up learning very little because of incompetent instructors who don't challenge them, so they end up becoming essentially self taught
If you go to one of the few good schools like ArtCenter you take on a mountain of debt that will take forever to pay off, but at least you get taught real fundies and can make connections to get you a real job in the entertainment industry
But even Vilppu himself quit ArtCenter before he graduated because he felt that he wasn't learning fast enough
Going to an atelier is pointless if you want to be primarily a digital artist
Your best bet is studying from online courses tailored exactly to what you want to do, and saving up money to pay for mentorships/workshops with artists you want to learn from.

[Anonymous No.5108514]

>>5108155
this is 100% true

>It's not impossible but it's fucking hell and I'll take you 3x longer than if you just had a competent teacher
especially this part

People who disagree just haven't experienced it, getting spoonfed exactly what you need to improve and how by a competent teacher. It's invaluable

[Anonymous No.5108528]

>>5108482
There is no internalization without repetition, it just doesn't happen

[Anonymous No.5108536]

>>5108528
I didn't say anything about avoiding repetition, it comes naturally as you try and try again to make the type of art you want. You obviously take extended detours to work through portions of a book once you know what keeps fucking up and what you want to improve but you should have a general daily rhythm of practicing anatomy, mechs, environments, porn or whatever you're into

[Anonymous No.5108553]

>>5108155
this is the typical kind of thread you would expect from an eternal ngmi beg.

[Anonymous No.5108598]

>>5108451
lol someone post the image

[Anonymous No.5108602]

>>5108514
op hasn’t experienced it by his own admission, you retard, and neither have you

[Anonymous No.5108612]

>>5108433
pretty shitty teacher you hve there

[Anonymous No.5108626]

>>5108514
I can confirm it takes longer but it wasn't wasted, most of my coworkers who went to art school only understood things on a surface level, I saw they lacked a lot of fundamental knowledge in favour of industry tricks. The years I spent studying alone allowed me to jump between jobs and tasks pretty easily. I now have enough confidence to learn any skill given enough time, In a rapidly changing society this is the most important skill.

[Anonymous No.5108634]

>>5108602
i wouldnt have said that if i hadnt :)

[Anonymous No.5108640]

>>5108626
Definitely, too many classes will absolutely make you overdependent. Most of the work you're going to have to do yourself but those periods of time where I took classes I saw significant improvement. Not only that but the best teach you HOW to improve by yourself more efficiently as well.

[Anonymous No.5108663]

>>5108634
pyw ;^)

[Anonymous No.5108672]

>>5108640
I think the most important thing about not receiving the answers from a teacher is you learn to develop ways of analysing and figuring out your own rules, you will take this way of thinking and it will allow you to naturally move beyond anything that exists in any place of learning. This is really important for artistic fields because you will inevitably spend most of your journey lost and alone.

Classes are only good for the basics and they are essentially quick, mostly shitty, sometimes elegant regurgitations of information contained within classic books.

[Anonymous No.5108685]

i think most of art is self taught no matter what, a teacher cant be holding your hand most of the time and if they do you dont improve much. regardless of this though i do agree with OP that having a supervisor like presence to view work and give critique is really important, you see this in almost any industry and ive never heard anyone say it was a hindrance to development but rather very helpful. with that said i still think learning art in like 99% of schools nowadays is a waste of time and the best way to gain insightful feedback is by working in a professional environment

[Anonymous No.5108696]

>>5108433
blog?

[Anonymous No.5108700]

>>5108663
k, im by no means a pro (hence why im taking classes) heres a study i did in bobby chiu's course. of course that isn't the kind of class im talking about though.

>>5108672
everything you said is true, but there is no reason you cant do that alongside having a teacher to guide you. They won't be with you every step of the way, finding a good balance will net you the most improvement in my opinion. If you look up some of the greats you will see a majority of them had mentors guiding them at an early stage in their life.
>Classes are only good for the basics and they are essentially quick, mostly shitty, sometimes elegant regurgitations of information contained within classic books.

this depends on the class, it's the case for 99% of them but a competent teacher can teach you so much.

Like OP said though, it's not impossible without any but the road is much rockier.

[Anonymous No.5108709]

>>5108700
In my ideal scenario I would have liked a great artist to mentor me but very few are lucky enough to experience this.

[Anonymous No.5109084]

>>5108155
true. 12 months and my art is barely getting good, its not that i want to be self taught. im just fucking lazy lol

[Anonymous No.5109308]

>>5108155
>Being self-taught is a meme BECAUSE I CAN'T DO IT

Doesn't necessarily mean that others can't.

Besides, where do you find a competent teacher? In art school where they only do either edgy "shocking" modern trash pictures of people bleeding from their mouths, or the stiff academic pose stuff that's useless as such for any commercial work?

Or do you pay for those overhyped online courses where you're forced to go through eight weeks of inane youtube level "value studies" and then get to talk with the instructor for half an hour?

I'm actually genuinely interested where you would find a competent teacher for reasonable money. Particularly if it's online, seeing that the world is shut down now thanks to the fake plandemic.

[Anonymous No.5109309]

>>5108190
Oh look it's Ross Tran, his form is just as genuine as his art skills

[Anonymous No.5109310]

>>5108165
Keep worming worm chad

[Anonymous No.5109312]

>>5108467
>Loomis
Let's not overemphasize that too much. I'm making a living from character art and never read Loomis or any other anatomy or figure drawing books.

[Anonymous No.5109313]

>>5108155
>>5108328
This is the unfortunate truth.

[Anonymous No.5109314]

>>5109312
pyw

[Anonymous No.5109516]

>>5108700
Anon, you’re a beg, and I don’t mean that as an insult. Your values are shallow and you didn’t even get to the point of painting in shapes, you’re just laying in translucent strokes everywhere with no rhyme nor reason. What the fuck were you stuck on before getting a teacher?

[Anonymous No.5109528]

>>5108155
I realized this a long time ago.
Sadly, Im too broke for art school or to pay someone that actually knows what they are doing to teach me.

[Anonymous No.5109533]

>>5108449
"self taught" as in they never went to Art School.

That doesn't mean that they didn't have someone better than them giving them advice and helping them get better.

[Anonymous No.5109536]

>>5108190
what the fuck???

[Anonymous No.5109716]

>>5108274
>Even in college and beyond you have to learn a vast amount of your major's content by yourself.
Which is a shame really. If we had a culture of teaching and training individuals rather than telling researches to "teach" 200+ size classes, twice a week, and set tick box coursework, maybe people would do better things.

[Anonymous No.5109722]

>>5109716
if you weren’t a lazy nigger who just got into college because someone told him to instead of out of a desire to learn, maybe a) they wouldn’t have to teach 200 people and b) you wouldn’t need them to spoonfeed you

[Anonymous No.5109858]

>>5109314
Nobody with a reputation posts here. And even if I did, how would you know if it's really my art or not?