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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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5107543 No.5107543 [Reply] [Original]

Why You Should Copy Anime:

**Strive for quantity AND quality.**

Anime Studying:
>Copy anime references exactly and draw them from memory. Use illustrations, screenshots, anime figures, 3D models, etc.
>Don’t copy recklessly. Use construction, color theory, and other fundamental concepts to rehearse a drawing process that you can later easily manipulate for original artwork.
>Post all of your anime studies. Post even when you’re told not to. Create an art community that actually draws and improves together instead of just talking about it.
>Number your attempts and link to your previous posts.
>Critiquers should lead by example by posting their studies.

General Anime Style Discussion:
>Questions about achieving certain styles/techniques/compositions etc.
>Drawing methods, study habits, resources, tutorials, tools, software, etc
>Be specific and try to post a sample of your study attempts before asking for help.

**Draw copies from good anime styled references to mindfully up our mileage, internalize appealing aesthetics, and learn from each other’s processes and knowledge.**

Japanese Book Collection:

Recommended Resources:

/mmg/ - Manga Making General:

Previous Thread:

>> No.5107620

What brush settings do you all usually use when doing a final inking?

>> No.5107622

Hard round brush, zero stabilization, same layer.

>> No.5107684

csp default g-pen with minimum brush size set to 50 and brush density affected by pen pressure

>> No.5107705
File: 210 KB, 934x1079, yachie_study.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Thoughts on this study? It could be better since I got tired near the end and rushed the shell/tail.

>> No.5107706

gross weeb blobturd

>> No.5107709
File: 1.09 MB, 918x1500, __kicchou_yachie_touhou_drawn_by_joniko1110__c16dd3f5cc550d7eea8f77e9c14e751c.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Here's the original.

>> No.5107793

fix the arm is fucked in botch pics

>> No.5107838
File: 369 KB, 768x768, 9qvpe5rtl3961.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How the fuck do I make nice lines?

>> No.5107874

as soon as you figure it out let me know

>> No.5107880

I gave up trying to make nice lines digitally and just paint and sculpt instead.
I'm originally a trad artist and digital just feels rather "fake" to me, so might as well not even try to replicate traditional feel on it.

PS: I'm just /int/.

>> No.5107898

you mean lineart or your lines not looking like chickenscratch

>> No.5107901
File: 201 KB, 1375x1924, EpK5hK1UUAExblF.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


have good forms and perspective and it will no longer matter

>> No.5107933

learn about line weight
study from good illustrators
be patient when drawing. good lineart takes a while

>> No.5107944
File: 2.40 MB, 2480x2456, __klee_genshin_impact_drawn_by_gan_jiang__d7f5450373e72daf6cd38b76f0c58dbe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

gay pic but probably true
any good resources to learn about line weight/adding variety?

>> No.5108016
File: 474 KB, 1000x2700, 16_-_kvBZuQG.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

all i got
personally i just reference other works

>> No.5108048

I read in a jap manga-making book that pen-touch is determined by the flexibility and fluffiness of an object. Not light-shadow, mass-weight, etc. Hard objects should have a very stiff and straight set of sterile lines, while flesh, clothing, hair, and other soft objects should have lots of variability in their lines. Each curve and line you make should modulate in thickness.

>> No.5108115
File: 2.34 MB, 3024x4032, IMG_20210103_142530748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can someone critique?
Would go farther w/ shading and whatnot but I feel like I would be polishing a turd, not sure what exactly I should be fixing though outside of hair/cloth

>> No.5108202
File: 321 KB, 1379x2048, EfwLXilUMAAtQ2I.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Don't. Make your life easier with a sketch-like style and call it an aesthetic.

>> No.5108257

>I feel like I would be polishing a turd
you would be correct
can't tell where the head ends and the hat begins
hair looks like it's made of pasta
jaw and cheekbones sharp af
eyes look like XD face. why is she laughing while stretching?
shoulders are dislocated
back is broken
drapery especially on arms needs work
line quality sucks
in other words, read the sticky and loomis

>> No.5108270
File: 60 KB, 400x480, dcabf989a0e7d0f8aefd88bd9e8fb5d3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can someone redline this? having trouble with the perspective

>> No.5108332

When studying, do you guys start by gesture? i feel like jap artists dont really use that and start immediately with construction, so is there a point starting with gesture when copying?

>> No.5108340

I'm bad at redlining, but from just a glance, I would say that the dog needs to be seen from a higher angle if that makes sense.

>> No.5108503
File: 1.48 MB, 2571x3339, _Sora_and_Iofi_by_Airani_Iofifteen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Does /asg/ even have someone who measures up to Low Fi from Hololive?

>> No.5108513
File: 525 KB, 1500x1500, 2BCF46E4-8F12-4D94-9CF0-E2E57617B35D.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

How does this look so far? It’s just the clean sketch

>> No.5108519
File: 3.41 MB, 3492x4656, 0103212107b~2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Not a study but i just felt like drawing a bikini clad elf in oil

>> No.5108526
File: 1.11 MB, 3488x4656, 0103212109-min.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

And heres a sketch on canvas

>> No.5108530
File: 1.60 MB, 4656x3492, 0103212112-min.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Never did finish this one

>> No.5108532
File: 1.33 MB, 3488x4656, 0103212115-min.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

And this one

>> No.5108563

>are you winning so-

>> No.5108565

let me guess you didn't drew the arms

>> No.5108792
File: 122 KB, 1235x590, oreo study.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

(in addition to gitting gud at color theory) I need to adjust my monitors to be the same, which monitor should I try to make the other match?

>> No.5108839

Why are you studying from that pic inthe first place? The anatomy is shit and it looks like you're studying from someone else that's also learning art. You study from the masters, not from fucking randoms doing fanart. Why study from someone clearly still practicing and getting better themselves? You just learn the wrong shit.

The arms and hand are fucking awful on both pictures, unironically just look up anatomy first.

>> No.5108846

How do you know that they don't use that? Literally what train of thought makes you think that if their job is to draw, they don't know how to make a person look dynamic? That's what gesture is about. Yes you fucking start with gesture or you end up like the gray sketch tranny doing nothing but stiff standing poses all day because you don't know how to make bodies that look dynamic and you spend your entire life measuring perfect proportions that look unnatural.

>> No.5108884

>graysketch tranny
I wonder where he is now?

>> No.5108893

probably bored because he grinded the same pose for a year and with nothing to show for it

>> No.5108900

he made it

>> No.5109069

Honestly,anon. It makes me so fucking angry I feel like I'm about to break my fucking teeth off.

>> No.5109073


>> No.5109075


>> No.5109109
File: 572 KB, 992x1403, irito 3 small.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5109142

>painting your animu coom on oil

>> No.5109151
File: 200 KB, 992x1403, irito_3_small edited.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I tried to fix your face.

>> No.5109172


>> No.5109175

If you have things to say go ahead and point them out, otherwise you're just feeding your own crab ego.

>> No.5109177
File: 144 KB, 992x1403, 4khkelrj.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I tired to do something

>> No.5109191


>> No.5109193

are we supposed to just know what you mean?
fucking weeb zoomers

>> No.5109231
File: 920 KB, 1020x1324, 2ddd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5109243

It seems to me more like they make it dynamic by bending and curving 3d/2d shapes to basically get gesture sort of like how steve huston does it, but i have never ever seen an illustrator do vilppu style shit where he puts curvy lines of acton and shit, think akihito yoshitomi vids on youtube.

>> No.5109251

Hey wait is this yours? I think i followed you from the social media thread, I really like your stuff

>> No.5109257
File: 629 KB, 1530x1694, 2b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

More zoomed out

>> No.5109289
File: 254 KB, 724x1135, 1589573352178.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

feel like i went too far with the gesture and broke her spine

>> No.5109318

I don't understand how you can do so well on the face, then go ahead and fuck up the feet so bad.

>> No.5109348

RIP in peace her ribcage.

>> No.5109352

because they have internalized a sense of gesture. if you can't feel the gesture yet, your poses will be stiff

>> No.5109877

>when you only practice faces

>> No.5109959

Well then I must have tunnel vision or just low standards since the original art looked fine to me until you pointed it out. I guess it doesn't help that fan art is one of my main interests.
>You study from the masters, not from fucking randoms doing fanart
Why not both? Former+real life for anatomy and latter for stylization tips.

>> No.5110418

it's what happens when you're an autist with bad taste that only practices one thing and can't take advice/critique.

>> No.5110723

I mean it's true, I usually practice faces the most, but why so hostile? I know it sucks but I drew the body to practice it and get feedback. the general feedback is that the feet are really bad and im an autist who can't take advice/critique even though I hardly post here and when I do its usually ignored. I don't get how you can say that. I value all the feedback I can get.

>> No.5110793

It's just crabs, don't pay them any mind

>> No.5110798

don't pay them any mind and you'll be drawing feet like that guy lmao

>> No.5110805

I love anime boobies

>> No.5110809

learn how to draw super light lines and draw over them

>> No.5110819
File: 556 KB, 450x449, 1582313773229.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i want to draw like yabuki kentaro how do i go about doing this?

>> No.5110829

1. learn how to draw generic anime
2. watch rendering tutorials

>> No.5110839

Wrists need more practice, too. I don't think it's bad to practice faces first as long as you branch out later like you're doing.

>> No.5110943

got any good ones to recommend?

>> No.5111027
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>> No.5111084
File: 392 KB, 1530x1694, ylmr6dil.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

theres a lotr of mistakes but heres something you are missing, youa re trying to copy that gb artstyle right, that guy has that soft blending that makes theextremities almost look like blobs but he does know anatomy and he makes enphasis on key parts where you fail bringing down your drawing completely to beg levels which i think you aren't, for example the knee, you just used the same tone for the whole area making it look like it's one solid piece, you cant tell if there's a knee there, not to mention the muscle insertions are wrong, the other knee that has that part circled in red idk if you know what those lines mean because they are too straight defeating their purpose that is to show that form of connection with the calve so it doesnt make the leg look like uhhhh... a straight sausage, same with the right arm in the armpit area, the arms, left look like limp dick and feets barely have form. Other shit you need to fix are the sausage fingers in the left, tits with not gravity enabled and if im cherrypicking the hair looks stiff and not natural i know the style is like that but some hanks of hair like that large one poking out almost horizontally it's unatural abd the ones below look like they are part of one single part rather than showing that form that wraps the head around if that makes sense.

>> No.5111090

ugh shitty engrish, gomen sirs

>> No.5111094

got any guides/resources on muscle insertions?

>> No.5111102

Thanks! This is really helpful

>> No.5111120

anatomy for sculptors

>> No.5111146

woops you made that thorax way way too small and the rest way way too big.

and take a good look at those arms.

>> No.5111152

you can do it anon! go anon! go anon!

stretch that thorax vertically.
Are you the same guy?

feet and hips area (I think she's too thick, but like her depth there seems a bit too much)

>> No.5111156

Well, it's lacking in places but it kinda has soul.
Mouth doesn't really work that well the overall piece has soul so not too shabby.

>> No.5111163

hold on hold on. color calibration is a rabbit hole.
Buy an accurate sRGB monitor such as an Eizo EV2450 (or well, it's not an amazing monitor second hand I feel like) something that will not have you to go down that rabbit hole and use that specific monitor for checking sRGB colors.

For the Eizo you need to do a factory reset and fiddle a little bit with the settings.

>> No.5111170
File: 206 KB, 649x1000, IMG_20210104_0001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Feedback, critique?

>> No.5111187

does that actually talk about the insertions in depth?

>> No.5111197


quite good. make that chin more pointy though (but that's my style-opinion, matter of taste)

eh anon, that's not how...

will people fall for that trap?

I commend you a lot for trying but please note that this is beginner tier, you do not have a remotely profound understanding in the techniques of drawing (*not* saying that I *do* have that).

here are some points
>lack of understanding of form (this is quite tricky especially with anime as it is more boolean, there's not really much "grey area" with anime, it's line, or no line, shade or no shade, in the "essential" anime style that is the case mostly)
>lack of understanding of perspective well, mostly ties in with the lack of understanding of form too
>cloth, the cloth doesn't even deform the graphic all the way down on her dress
>lack of understanding on how the body "works" or how the body moves and how that affects the form, basically, anatomy
>proportions are way off, look at that smollie smol head (this is really tricky with anime the "golden zone" for a given characters head seems to be quite small from my experience, and on digital I can just resize it all I want) and note that the size of the characters head kind of dictates the perceived size or length of that character, note how a baby is 4 heads tall and a superherosuperhumanman is 8-9 heads tall
>I think you did quite well for the face taking into context the whole drawing and your assumed "skill level" the facial features seem kinda "correct" as well
>the hair isn't too bad either
>notice that wide neccc that ain't sexy it's not feminine
>I really advice you to practice and try out different /ic/ memes I'm still looking for the "right" or an "optimal" way of practicing myself

I feel like you tried really hard, and I kinda kinda think you have potential, but you have to know that you start from the basics (level 1) and I feel like you should keep trying! keep it up anon! ganbare!

>> No.5111199
File: 426 KB, 749x1017, 1590972748816.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm sorry, i don't quite understand.
Isn't the rib cage meant the be same length as the end of the rib cage to the crotch? I lifted her head up a bit if it matters.

Also what's wrong with the arms?
I'm pretty sure i put the curves for the deltoids, extensor and flexor muscles.

>> No.5111201

not him but where did you learn anatomy from?
Your legs and pelvis look really good

>> No.5111210

Really cute, the fingers could use some work though, try to make them look more organic, straight lines aren't organic, look at your own fingers, they have meat, muscle, fat and bone

>> No.5111214

it looks shifted and too thin
Don't really like the head shape but that could be a personal preference.
Please take special attention to your nose, from this view the "shape" or "shape language" should be different in order to make it more appealing. You did correcttly shape the nose kinda downwards sloping (although I'm still figuring out myself what exactly *is* the ideal and it also relates with the horizontal, depth of the chin and essentially the whole face but let's not dive too deep here)
>chin placement. also relates to the nose try and make it a bit less forward, but do *not* make her incel, it's a fine line. Her sideview really reminds me of that color design of Sistine Fibel (not posting that as pic related I'd have to dig in my folders)
>upper legs a bit too long, littlel shorter would be more fitting
>too sketchy,
> less of a complaint but I really think it's worth noting
>in order to make your work look more professional you should have well defined ink lines. It's almost a fact. If you ever wonder why you're not "leveling up" you need to go with ink and colors, backgrounds then go towards more dynamic poses and more exaggerated perspectives and well thought out compositions.
>that pencil roughness/blurriness can be a trap anon just watch out, it can give you a false sense of confidence and ego!

>> No.5111241

I don't care about the exact muscle anatomy. It's the proportions. They're also way too thick, well, it's all relative so you have to get that thorax that ribcage all worked out.

Even with those red markers you placed there (I think you misplaced them a bit which does matter when we're talking about a more precise length) it still doesn't add up in 3 dimensions I feel like. I don't really agree with 1/2 pelvis and 1/2 thorax mentality, even leaving out the fact that there's also an "empty" zone between the bones on the stomach side.
I think it's more like 1/3 pelvis and 2/3 thorax and you have to fill in where the "empty zone" is and such. I hope you get what I mean I don't want to elaborate further.
But uh, no that ribcage still doesn't really fit, please do the following. Don't look at the drawing before you go to sleep, sleep, take a good look at your drawing and you will spot quite some flaws in it.

I really appreciate the effort you put into this. I can see that this took you quite some time and I appreciate that you took the effort to apply various techniques and I want to commend you for that!
But please take my word for it, this drawing has some prominent flaws!
It takes time to iron those out with regards to your skill.
Like, it takes time to learn/practice to make drawings that contain very little flaws. Each set of drawings containing less flaws and/or less prominent ones than the previous set of drawings.
I feel like you're too high up your horse because of an investment bias so to speak with regards to your drawing.
Your post sounds a bit like you're taking my critique and disregarding it in a way, it sounds a bit like you're excusing/defending your work, which is not bad per se! But please allow a more open mindset.
However, this is with regards on how I interpreted your post, how it "sound" to me.
In no way I'm trying to say you're a bad person and you can't take critique but please be a little more "open", if you can.

>> No.5111263

I'm really really sorry if my my post sounded mean or anything, that's just how i talk, i genuinely try being polite maybe a bit much but i do it all wrong and when i talk and it just came off like I'm condescending or on a high horse like you said. I'm truly sorry about that. I don't know how to be more polite without sounding like that. Believe me I have no malice or anything to or anyone especially if they're offering help.

That said i really do appreciate critique and am thankful. I just remember so many anatomy tutorials that give proportions like that so I just said what I heard. I'll make the distance from the ribcage to cotch shorter I know manga tutorial mentions that, but not in thirds like you said, I'll still make it shorter. I'll also take a break and work on it tomorrow like you said.
Thank you

>> No.5111327

lmao why a dunkins

>> No.5111332
File: 461 KB, 1810x2560, 81Jh-e8D4XL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What style are you guys trying to emulate and why?
I'm trying to copy Lynn Okamoto's early style purely out of nostalgia.

>> No.5111359

>eh anon, that's not how...
wdym, you can have anatomy in perspective

>> No.5111368
File: 116 KB, 1015x793, nnnlnlnln.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5111428

Can you guys tell me where you learn anatomy from?
Your red lines and corrections show you know anatomy really well, i studied a foot somebody posted and my feet look so much better now.

>> No.5111434

Go to the video thread and pick whatever anatomy stuff you can and go through it I would say.

>> No.5111442

scott eaton anatomy, bridgman, steve huston, jeff watts or proko vids

>> No.5111443


>> No.5111451

>Can you guys tell me where you learn anatomy from?
proper anatomy? anywhere but anime

>> No.5111463
File: 69 KB, 565x377, ResizedForYourPleasure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>ref image packs
>free ref sites
>books/pdfs/vids I got from /ic/

>> No.5111470


>> No.5111489
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>> No.5111527

please pyw

>> No.5111531
File: 1.39 MB, 1968x1400, 15.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

hiro, though saying I'm trying to emulate him would imply I'm not a long way off from his simpler yumekiri, let alone manage a single line out of akebi-chan.

>> No.5111545

sorry i should've been more specific, the anatomy that you post is stylised and real people don't have those types of body parts and they vary person to person
How do i learn to do the stylised ones?
Anybody can draw a normal foot by copying real people but a stylised ideal foot is hard to come by.

>> No.5111958

no not mean, just not very receptive to criticism.
but I have to go now I'll respond later. and read the rest.

That's not how they do it. They just draw a character. They don't fucking calculate a 3 dimensional space with fucking rulers and shit, they just draw her.

>> No.5111987

nice tummy

>> No.5112256
File: 2.84 MB, 1429x1848, sinker_77.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

honest opinions?

>> No.5112389
File: 99 KB, 468x899, 1235452.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5112576

Any tips on improving visual storytelling?

>> No.5112586

tactical use of expression, colour, and light

>> No.5112674

if storytelling is tactical what is strategical then?

>> No.5112723


>> No.5112768


Take it further, it's hard to say anything other than it looks unfinished, concept wise I'd say it's cool but take it further.

>> No.5112777
File: 1.37 MB, 1240x1753, Anatomy_A_Strange_Guide_for_Artists_00.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I found Capcom's anatomy guide for Street Fighter characters.
Here's some pages if anybody's interested.

>> No.5112778
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>> No.5112780
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>> No.5112781
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>> No.5112785
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>> No.5112786
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>> No.5112787
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>> No.5112790
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>> No.5112792
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>> No.5112793
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>> No.5112797
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>> No.5112801
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>> No.5112804
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>> No.5112805
File: 301 KB, 1132x1624, Anatomy_A_Strange_Guide_for_Artists_13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

That's all.

>> No.5112849

thanks for sharing!

>> No.5112874

I like art like this and will probably like it better than how it looks when it's more polished

>> No.5112890
File: 180 KB, 1478x801, 2021-01-05_23-21.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5112903

(should add some context)
I am trying to learn how to draw digitally.

>> No.5112972

Very cool

>> No.5112990

Could you please upload the whole pdf? I'm extremely interested in this

>> No.5112997

I actually got them from this site:
I dunno if there's more.

>> No.5113019
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>> No.5113039
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>> No.5113218
File: 456 KB, 695x605, study.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ive learned fucking nothing

>> No.5113224

did you construct or did you just draw what you were looking at

>> No.5113334
File: 1.51 MB, 1200x1600, painting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5113338

no, what is construction and how do i do it? thanks

>> No.5113401

answer me you retarded niggers

>> No.5113404

the stylization is up to you, if you want to learn about some especific style then copy your favorite artist

>> No.5113458
File: 369 KB, 636x476, w198613449.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5113624
File: 1.09 MB, 900x900, 1598425828639.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

do you guys have a list of anime-styled youtubers that you recommend?
Like Reiq, akihito yoshitomi, Hyanna Natsu?

>> No.5113625

>Reiq, Hyanna Natsu
holy ngmi terminally bad taste

>> No.5113630

who are you subbed to then?

>> No.5113720

guess I really gotta work on my forms more

>> No.5113722
File: 460 KB, 3896x2872, 01.06.2021_crab_chan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Crab chan

>> No.5113723

i don't wanna make it, i just wanna be happy.

>> No.5113739
File: 101 KB, 800x1015, 1595949368612.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Could someone please redline the foot? I feel like it's the most glaring mistake. She's supposed to be wearing socks.

>> No.5113747
File: 157 KB, 828x817, wifekobeni.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i didnt learn anything but i really like kobeni

>> No.5113749
File: 73 KB, 285x412, Kobeni.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5113803

Why is it only /beg/s that post their art?
Are /int/s afraid or something?
Did they make a pact not to?
I don't understand.

>> No.5113813

Give me something to draw.

>> No.5113840
File: 240 KB, 281x500, 1595516872745.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

draw klee

>> No.5113842


>> No.5113843

uuuuuhhhh ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT ToT

>> No.5113851

I'm too lazy to draw all that clothes.

>> No.5113858

fine, draw her naked

>> No.5113893
File: 258 KB, 2000x2000, midoriyabust.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Hello, I'm new to this all. Like, really new. I basically just started doing anime from references a few days ago.

Ref here:

I dabbled drawing in the past (realistic stuff drawn from reference) but never stuck with it. But I really want to learn anime.

for starters, I know copying from ref is for absolute absolute beginners, how long should I be sticking with this? Also I don't use construction and I really want to learn it, but something about Loomis just burns a hole in my head

is there a more.. entertaining way to learn it. I know this sounds kinda prickish but I really just can't get into Loomis.

>> No.5113906

>I don't use construction
how else are you going to learn?

>> No.5113910

join https://discord.gg/3bwdfRk

>> No.5113911

well yeah I want to learn. It's just Loomis so is boring I can't learn it from there, and the 50's cartoon style turns me off.

>> No.5113918

3 months, top.

>> No.5113919

Alright, I'll give it another go. I really want to learn so I won't be picky.

>> No.5113925

No one is forcing you to use Loomis, don't worry. If you don't like Loomis then use something else:

>> No.5113928

not him but don't do loomis then, it's better that you actually read a book than actually not do one because of loomis.

Try this book, it teaches you a fundamental skill called perspective with anime characters.

Here's books for figures

Here's one for drawing anime chracters it's in japanese but it has anime characters and it's good for moe art

> copying from ref is for absolute absolute beginners,
Everybody copies, even pros use reference. Good artist copy great artists steal. Go nuts, steal from multiple artists and claim it as your own, there's nothing wrong with this.

>> No.5113953
File: 138 KB, 817x807, file.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

you made her head way too wide. measure more.

it helps to use horizontal lines and vertical lines to check landmarks in what you're trying to draw. proportions are the most important thing to be able to draw well.

>> No.5113962

Cool. Thanks for the new resources

>> No.5113967
File: 518 KB, 1600x1023, 1609469820891.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ooooh thank you i see it now

>> No.5114081
File: 854 KB, 3451x1571, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

What's wrong with this?

>> No.5114435
File: 60 KB, 215x263, 1606518261337.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5114615
File: 404 KB, 1280x1767, 000001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Wait a fucking minute...

>> No.5114661

too much definition on her stomach makes it looks like it bulges out too much, which makes it look weird in comparison to her thin waist

>> No.5114763

lol, read the /ic/ big sticky in the sticky thread, well explained there

>> No.5114875
File: 86 KB, 405x597, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i hate elbows

>> No.5115208

Stop. Drawing. Anime.

This is the number one advice that Japanese artists utilize to become better artists in short periods of time.

>> No.5115304

remember to get your csp bonus today

>> No.5115347
File: 70 KB, 464x640, joseph-sheppard-anatomy-for-artists.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This is literally the cover of Anatomy - A complete guide for artists by Joseph Sheppard, but with Demitri instead. I guess, we know what book they used to learn anatomy.

>> No.5115353

is this book good?

>> No.5115359

I didn't like it personally, I thought that illustrations were way too unclear, and there was a lot of focus on shape of separate bones and stuff which to me just doesn't look that useful, at least not at a beginner level. I think there is better stuff out there.

>> No.5115487


>> No.5115611


>> No.5115746

Isn't it the opposite?
They just copy anime?

>> No.5116003

Dont forget to uppercut the rib lmao

>> No.5116094

I read the manga of that. Good story. I don't like the mangaka's artstyle.

>> No.5116210
File: 234 KB, 861x914, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

critique please, i tried doing a difficulty post from this angle

>> No.5116250

I have a real difficult time with making appealing and lively looking eyes with an eastern art style. Have any tips?

>> No.5116288

just made the jump from trad to digital and there's a lot to learn. at the moment i'm trying to find some nice brushes for krita but apparently i have to calibrate them all from scratch when i import them?

does anyone have any suggestions for some decent brushes?

>> No.5116314

If you post your work it would be easier to give you advice

>> No.5116317

take the CSP-pill and get access to a bunch of brushes plus .abr support so brush choices are doubled or tripled.

>> No.5116358
File: 161 KB, 800x600, finallysomegoodfuckingfood.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5116417

she looks dessapointed was the intendeed emotion?

>> No.5116421

Yes. That and tired.

>> No.5116441
File: 79 KB, 800x600, v9xpcztq.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

why din't you post your ''western'' attempts at these eyes then, you postend some animu tired looking eyes

just use lights and tones and you have these uwuu qt eyes

>> No.5116445

Oh wow that looks really cute

>> No.5116446

oops my bad i readed that as western and it was eastern, i need to take my schizo pills.

>> No.5116554
File: 90 KB, 838x692, EqsRhBoVQAAD1Pj1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

is this a good study?

>> No.5116569

it's a start
now draw 49 more eyes with emotion

>> No.5116575

Im too bored to give any redline

>> No.5116604

It's okay anon, you did your best.

>> No.5116755
File: 28 KB, 491x624, images-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i can detect ny own mistakes most of the time and the few times i didn't neither the other people here could... that asuming im int

>> No.5116847
File: 698 KB, 699x990, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

crit pls

>> No.5116909

Her hat seems a bit too far behind but idk maybe that's just the hat.
I'd make the eyes bigger.
Remember the shape of a torso. It's solid from the ribcage it doesn't bend or anything until the rib cage ends.
One hand looks bigger than the other, sure hands arent exactly the same but it's not that noticeable. Similarly make the elbows look the same
The way she's holding the microphone seems strange, look up references on how to hold a mic. If you referenced, maybe you did the fore shortening on the mic wrong. It kinda looks like it would go through her fingers at that angle or her fingers are flat enough that the mic passing in front like that.
Her shoulders are pointy, make the more curved
I don't see her clavicles.
Women have a larger pelvis than torso, try making the pelvis bigger, on the right.
I like how you didn't hide the hands and did the hair, and kept a consistant light source, but isn't the light source coming from the front?
It would be different right?
Unless it's not a spotlight then never mind.

>> No.5116944
File: 999 KB, 564x847, loomis.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ya the mic foreshortening is fucked
and the circle is just bc i can't do backgrounds lol

>> No.5117254

anyone know of any artists that draw similar things to kamen rider/power rangers? basically just art of dudes in cool looking power suits, robotic armor, etc

>> No.5117700
File: 789 KB, 1285x1819, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm doing timed figure drawing with ina, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?
I tried pushing the gresture like people suggested as well as wrapping lines.
But her's looks marginally better than mine. I also don't use an eraser for these like her, if it matters

>> No.5117709

is this a study or original? If it's a study post the ref

>> No.5117898
File: 66 KB, 939x345, file.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>can you tell me what I'm doing wrong?
doing timed figure drawing with ina

as a beginner, don't focus on timed drawing, pause if you're not done. find nude models to draw or at least a leotard, it can be really hard to draw the clothed figure when you're learning. https://vimeo.com/croquiscafe is a good place. look up figure drawing from steve huston, jeff watts, karl gnass, glenn vilppu. proko might be helpful to some degree. this guy used to do a lot of good croquis and turnarounds but looks like he deleted a lot from his pixiv https://twitter.com/nr_kura

you got some things more accurate than her like the negative space of the leg/arm and the angle of the leg. doing this well takes hours and years of work. keep grinding and focus on the big masses and proportions. figure drawing is refinement, not getting it right the first try. i would recommend a pencil type of brush that you can plot out light lines then build them as you're more confident in them. finding the shadow patterns really helps. find steve huston's figure drawing book in the draw thread or michael hampton's and study from those if you aren't already.

don't just try to draw the contour or outline of what you're seeing, try to draw the 3d mass of it (a box or cylinder). another way that helps is drawing the shadows (this is easier when people are naked and you know anatomy) and then the form will come from that. a good exercise is to look at an image and only draw the shadow shapes. this trains your eye and is also a design exercise on making appealing shapes. you can get a really close likeness just by using tone instead of line (i traced the red for example purposes, i did my drawing before it in like 2-4 minutes). after you can draw figures well from real life, stylization is much easier. digital is really hard, i think a ream of printer paper and pen or pencil are much easier to get mileage with.

>> No.5117905

thank you, i'll keep grinding these.

>> No.5118277
File: 373 KB, 1183x1187, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5118347
File: 336 KB, 957x1200, EjsfoXWU4AA5HPv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I think I feel in love with this artstyle

>> No.5118359


>> No.5118370

Bro this is asg..

>> No.5118475
File: 567 KB, 900x900, 1461689781218.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

So there are like a million "draw anime style" books, which one(s) are actually good?

>> No.5118614

Try some out and see which work best for you

>> No.5118629

Well, I'm gonna use Pin2D as a main learning material. The best books seem to be the ones in Japanese. I just need something to use as a backup if I get stuck with Pin2D. My plan is to use two or three materials as reference while I study the stuff on setteidreams.

Side note this book is now in English apparently, kind of want.

>> No.5118640

>Side note this book is now in English apparently, kind of want.
>Anatomy Book
Just download the proko anatomy

>> No.5118765

proko kills soul

>> No.5118963


>> No.5119040
File: 1.05 MB, 1070x1200, tumblr_pia7dfM1XD1s1v6lho1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

how the FUCK do I add soul to my drawings?

>> No.5119050

try posting your work

>> No.5119053
File: 189 KB, 1176x1094, booba.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5119059

coom cant soul, try for another emotion

>> No.5119064

wtf is happening with the right bicep?

>> No.5119087

by not being inspired by soulless shit

>> No.5119095

what is his blog?

>> No.5119129
File: 207 KB, 1203x1050, booba2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

answer the question, this isn't /v/

>> No.5119141

No soul cause its thirst coomer shit. Simple as

>> No.5119149

one eye and a mouth from >>5119040 captures more emotion and expression than your entire drawing. you accentuate the entirely wrong things like a deviantart artist. your expression is generic and doesn't tell any story, the figure is terrible. her near tit is lifeless because you used a concave line and her left arm makes no sense. horrible crop and composition but you'll get buttmad about it for (You)s. asking for help when you didn't want it anyway.

>> No.5119273
File: 3.25 MB, 1562x2669, Untitled271_20210108172111.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5119311
File: 110 KB, 455x720, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5119342
File: 203 KB, 867x1247, booba3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

thanks for the critique, I'm trying to add details to the drawings like junwool does but the faggot doesn't even post a timelapse.
If I wanted yous I'd post in a drawthread, not in the crab board.

>> No.5119549

pedoanon your work is on another level of uncanny and i cant really put my finger on why
stop referencing actual kiddy porn, it doesnt look good

>> No.5119555
File: 1.31 MB, 623x900, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

i referenced a real person but changed the pose around

>> No.5119565

thats an awful reference
and i cant tell what the thing you drew is supposed to be doing

>> No.5119572
File: 54 KB, 500x287, 1460806509-08ea854bc7e6f167d76a51e63c7d6046.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

depression again...

>> No.5119638

A big fuck you to the /int/s here.
You don't post your work or anything.
You just shitpost while the /beg/s post their shit.
Sure some of you actively post critiques but the rest of you are what's wrong with this general and board.

>> No.5119687

Holy seethe
did someone make fun of your art?
Read loomis

>> No.5119781

>You don't post your work or anything.
That's because every time I post my shit people don't give a fuck because I don't draw females.

>> No.5119865

no ref on this one

>> No.5120062
File: 1.40 MB, 1403x1870, 20210109_210116.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Have I done it yet? Drawn an anime character which looks like it coulda been made in the 80s/90s?

>> No.5120105

Why should I post my work here if I can fix it myself

>> No.5120131


>> No.5120191
File: 259 KB, 844x465, clone.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can someone help me spot mistakes here? Trying to learn how to render.
Mostly painted in the color and tried to blend it.

>> No.5120201
File: 107 KB, 527x730, screenshot.1610202975.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.5120283

whenever i watch an art stream by the pixiv artists they never use ps, all of them are in csp and some sai. am idoing something wrong by using ps for anime art...?

>> No.5120299

Doesn't really matter. They're all viable. A different program won't make you better

>> No.5120334

This is beg advice. PS is not built for making lines like CSP is. PS is better at painting and coloring.

>> No.5120365

I'm a poorfag and use sketchbook. Should I shell out for CSP?

>> No.5120373

Bros what was the name of the Japanese artist that drew there lewd faces that some anon was copying like a year ago

>> No.5120378

wait for a sale when it's 25$

>> No.5120403
File: 2.67 MB, 1874x2956, Ezra2021.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

It's been a while since i felt somewhat happy with the result of one of my drawings

>> No.5120436

yo this is actually REALLY good, minus the hand holding the drink. Fix that and it's excellent

>> No.5120442

Top notch anon! Good job my dude!

>> No.5120477

Thank you anon, but i have a rule to not touch again something i consider finished (specially since i make the whole drawing in a single layer so it would bê a pain in the ass). But i do ponder in the things i could do better for the next drawing. Once again, thank you anon~
Thank you anon~

>> No.5120539
File: 130 KB, 720x540, 77151878_1047490398976588_5095513401421987840_n.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

how much should i charge for a piece

>> No.5120553

30 cents

>> No.5120554

what did you measure exactly

>> No.5120566

you should pay me 2 dollars to accept that

>> No.5120572


>> No.5120585

Okay okay. 50 cents and i want colored full shaded

>> No.5120591

it's already shaded and stop crabbing

>> No.5120629

why does the pastebin link to a zerobin lmfao

>> No.5120633

/ic/ give reallly horrible critique. You guy's critiques are only limited to anatomy and only anatomy, nothing on composition. :(

>> No.5120635

I mean, were you serious?
That is not good enough to charge anything dude.

>> No.5120640

why? what's wrong with it?

>> No.5120653
File: 61 KB, 667x742, 1589314092769.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

how do you know they are int if they don't post their work dumass

>> No.5120784

it looks bad

>> No.5120791

this is funny, because fundies were used and is the original source material.

>> No.5120795


>> No.5120821

why is her body tiny despite the huge head and neck and hand and forearm?
where are her hands coming from
sure if i look just at the face it looks like a cheap early 90s OVA cover (Guessing you copied from somewhere)
but if you look at the whole thing you have a shit composition with little regard for form or anatomy
i hope you're joking. if you cant at the least recognize that that is a poor work, you're Ngmi

>> No.5120834

fuck you why do you all hate my art crab faggots pyw and then talk shit

>> No.5120841

if you're the second guy youre either a troll or legitimately delusional
if i paid somebody even $2 and they gave me that I would be offended

>> No.5120843

Because we don't copy anime and posting ITT implies you don't know what you're doing and rely on heavily referencing off someone else.

>> No.5120847

shut up. you don't draw and i do i'm gmi

>> No.5120850

you're not gmi clearly
the fact that you ask about commission prices before you even ask for a critique shows your delusion and american mindset. you dont care about improving. you dont care if you lack fundamentals. all you care about is getting that one compliment that you agree with and a few bucks.
you're the very definition of what is wrong with art culture in this board and in the west

>> No.5120852

stfu i'm from Romania pyw faggot

>> No.5120856

nice deflection
doesnt matter where youre from. so long as you have this shitty mindset you will literally never make it
keep seething forever

>> No.5120860

still didn't post your work you're just jealous

>> No.5120862

Not him but I concur post your work.

>> No.5120866

the /beg/ mind at work

>> No.5120875

crab crabbing

>> No.5120876
File: 202 KB, 1280x720, 1606782930547.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

No, I like to see you faggots get roasted and go through a hoop of mental gymnastics to deflect a simple request from us and then see the coping mechanism kick in when you fail to post work.

>> No.5120888

how is it crabbing?
he never even asked for a critique
he basically proclaimed he already made it and deserves praise, despite being the beggest of beg
pyw isnt a winning argument. its nothing more than a deflection.
i dont gain anything from doing it (i either link myself to my anonymous art socials or waste time on a new drawing just to appease shitters) and all youve done is use a bad faith argument to ignore a good faith one.
if you're afraid of criticism please post on reddit instead

>> No.5120889

and there's the coping mechanism at work. top kek

>> No.5120892

wdym it's anime study general and i was asking a simple question

>> No.5120895

keep crabbing yourself i guess
tell me when you get your first commission. family doesnt count

>> No.5120897

obvious baits, why people even bother replying also lmaoing at the retards wasting their time rather than drawing the true ngmi's in this board.

>> No.5120899

you literally don't know who you're talking to you fucking crab

>> No.5120901

I am drawing, the point of asking that faggot to post his work is to demonstrate how much merit there is behind this faggotry and to see whether or not he's only here to shitpost and doesn't draw or not.

>> No.5120908
File: 1.44 MB, 3096x4128, ikaic8dblix31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm gmi keep crabbing crab i'm gettting cash

>> No.5120909

>how much should i charge for a piece
implies your work has any inherent value at all.
but looking at it shows you've maybe been drawing for a few months at best
mind you theres nothing wrong with being beg and posting here, but you shouldve asked "how can i improve"
are you both seething? the 90s animefag i gave a proper response and criticism to. if you dont want to accept it then fuck off to reddit.

>> No.5120911

>that nose
>dick sucking lips
>those fingers
>unidentifiable blob of muscle
>toilet seat ear
>no form anywhere to be seen
>cant even draw a fucking star

>> No.5120912

I'm willing to bet he draws better than you.

>> No.5120916

again with the deflection
if you cant take criticism, kindly retreat to reddit
learn your fundies before seething

>> No.5120920

I'm not him, unless you post your work it is safe to say that you're absolute dogshit that can't even post a simple sketch.

>> No.5120926

alright. go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better. i really dont care
that way you can ignore all criticism and continue pretending you're good
if you fail to see how you've made a concession with that non-argument, you're beyond helping

>> No.5120931
File: 34 KB, 540x720, rcb16ignt3j31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ok what do i improve to get more money

>> No.5120932
File: 1.83 MB, 2027x2010, fishinefaceanoncopy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

If you meant these faces, that's Fishine/Hirame

>> No.5120934

read the sticky.
learn how to draw a line properly, and then a box (do drawabox, it sucks but you need it badly)
then read loomis
all while practicing
maybe in a year or two your work will be worth paying for if you dont crab yourself like you did a few moments ago

>> No.5120935

at least give good critizism 0 help

>> No.5120937

Anon... I don't know If you're trolling or not, but i'll answer sincerely. I really believe anyone can make if they put effort enough in their work. You have the energy to do it so. But still there's a lot of work for you to improve, so you can put your art agaisnt the big dogs.
I believe you want to replicate Araki's style, but there's a severe lack of basic understanding of anatomy in your works, i'm not telling "Go study loomis" because, i myself rarely study anatomy, i simply take the mistakes of past drawing to improve the next one. And also the care with your materials, you're damaging the paper with those thick agressive pencil lines, it makes the work look unprofessional and comissioners don't like that.
After getting better at your black and white, try adding colors, they are more eye catching to costumers than a normal B&W.
It can be a long for you anon, and i wish you luck.

>> No.5120938

>read the sticky.
Ambiguous worthless reply with no real direction
>learn how to draw a line properly
What the fuck does that even mean
>Read loomis
He won't learn how to draw from simply reading a book
>all while practicing
Practice what exactly? Again no real direction with more ambiguity. You don't even draw do you?

>> No.5120940

i only have grafit pencil

>> No.5120950

you're clearly very new to art so its hard to give proper critique without having you restart the whole thing completely. thats why you study and practice at the same time
just as an example, look at the hair you drew.
where is it coming from? you cant tell its coming from a 3d form, it looks flat on the paper.
you have random indescribable lines on the horses face that im not sure are scars or weird attempts at shading. the nostril looks like a horn or something.
these are all things you would improve by learning your fundamentals (by reading/studying)
>What the fuck does that even mean
if you even need to ask then you havent read the sticky or set one foot into learning how to draw legitimately
>He won't learn how to draw from simply reading a book
He won't get better automatically obviously without practicing as well (like i said), but he will learn. that's an undeniable fact.
not sure what youre getting from this. you got so mad at "crabbing" that you're crabbing in return

>> No.5120957

Uuuhhhhh. After you get good at your grafit drawings, i recommend getting some money to buy other materials like colored pencils and a good pen for lineart. I also had no money to buy decent drawing materials, but for a whole year i raised enough money to buy a shitty drawing tablet that i use to this day for my digital art. Is what they say, you need to spend money to make money.
And If you want to create an account on social medias to share your art stuff, try taking more care with the pic of your drawings, the ones you showed us are very unflattering.

>> No.5120984

theres absolutely no excuse for not studying and reading loomis or other books in the sticky
saying "read loomis" or learn fundamentals is absolutely a valid criticism/statement given current society, where people will do everything they can to skip the middle steps of "getting good"
the lowest begs will find any reason they can to avoid actually studying. the donning-kruger effect is very very real

>> No.5120997

Go back to r*ddit.

>> No.5121023

Advice from me won't make you a better artist. Sure I can tell your hand is off, your foot is wrong, etc etc. But what did you learn? You learned nothing other than your drawing is shit. You need to learn to find out what is wrong with your drawing yourself. Some of the people here giving advice are trying to help, some are just trying to toot their own horn, most are begshits that can't draw to save their life but will try and "correct" you anyway. This is why it's rare to see advice apart from other literal begs.

You need to learn to be self sufficient, you need to learn that advice and critique from this place is garbage. You need to learn that seeking advice, critique and approval from /ic/ is a glaring red flag that you are a /beg/.

>> No.5121040


>> No.5121046


>> No.5121053


please read keys to drawing and go through some bargue plates. you need to stop symbol drawing and develop accuracy so you can actually spot your mistakes first. once you have the ability to spot your own mistakes you will be able to practice and learn much faster


>> No.5121054

whats the point of giving advice when begtards just ignore it and get mad

>> No.5121088

What's the point of giving advice when they won't appreciate it anyway?

>> No.5121102
File: 83 KB, 850x400, quote-almost-all-japanese-animation-is-produced-with-hardly-any-basis-taken-from-observing-hayao-miyazaki-121-80-56.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

you can't teach 4channers simple as, they have to know suffering and learn humility like a normal person so they can appreciate the process.

>> No.5121110
File: 146 KB, 605x345, 1579588065521.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>more money

>> No.5121136

this is really good

>> No.5121433

Oh so that's what was wrong, thanks anon.

>> No.5121499

I try me best. Happy you liked.

>> No.5121537


>> No.5121546
File: 346 KB, 1123x1715, 1590796491621.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

what's happening in here?

>> No.5122001
File: 112 KB, 392x836, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

any critique?

>> No.5122016

is it worth getting manga materials' pixiv course?

>> No.5122099

Can anyone suggest me the best tutorial to draw animu heads from various angles?

>> No.5122110


>> No.5122179


>> No.5122242
File: 142 KB, 392x836, 16102758042931.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


>> No.5122255

Was being wide that much of a problem?
I'll try to make them skinnier in the future.
Thank you

>> No.5122345

nah I think your stomach is just to high,not that guy btw

>> No.5122642

New Thread:

>> No.5123128

>Why is it only /beg/s that post their art?
If I have recognisable non-beginner art and a successful art career, do I really want to associate with 4chan and drag the trolls from here onto my social media accounts? Hmm

>> No.5123136

I make a living off anime style art, never read loomis, and I wish I had practiced by copying from reference much more than I did, it would have sped up the process of learning.

>> No.5123152

>PS is better at painting and coloring.
Why? I have the opposite experience.

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