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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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5070804 No.5070804 [Reply] [Original]

>top artists and instructors are asked for advice or the secret to their skill
>"just imagine what you're drawing in a box then rotate it"

This is the equivalent of a rich hot guy saying "just be yourself bro" is the secret to his success with women. Thinking in boxes and 3D is one of the first things you'll have to learn to draw successfully, but actually being able to do successfully apply that principle to everything in your head is either going to take an crazy strong innate visualization talent or an inhuman amount of practice. Talent is absolutely real and play a giant role in if you're going to make it and more importantly when, and denying it is absolutely ridiculous.

If you don't already have "it", you'll be spending thousands of hours at each skill level grinding pointlessly just to force your brain to internalize these truths, while those who already innately understand them are free to practice meaningfully for the purpose of incorporating them into their drawing mindset. You'll forever take at least twice as long to do this and will always be playing catch-up.

>> No.5070909

>>5070804
You never competed with the autistic math kid in the back of the class room in school that could do instant trigonometry calculations in his mind so why are you competing with artists of the same caliber?

>> No.5070927

>>5070804
just picture the 3d rendered object in your mind bro

>> No.5070939

>>5070909
Why compete with anyone? Just accept the office job making 50000 a year and watch your Netflix, eat your fast food, jack off to tranny porn, and don't forget to wear your mask until you get the government mandated injection which will keep that icky virus away

>> No.5070944

>>5070939
>Why compete with anyone?
You're the one making a thread comparing yourself to people like that?

>> No.5070946

>>5070909
Because I was that autistic math kid and I'm mad my innate potential was wasted on a field I don't give a fuck about. I was hoping I could get a solid grasp on design, appeal, and construction while I'm relatively young so I could actually spend some of it creating, but the way I'm progressing right now I'll be in my late 30s before I'm able to make anything I'd be satisfied with. Meanwhile 16 year old Tumblr kids are churning out appeal, anatomy, consistency etc without breaking a sweat.

>> No.5070949

>>5070939
schizo

>> No.5070951

>>5070946
Don't swim against the stream bud. I did the reverse of what you're doing and i paid for it.

>> No.5070957

>>5070804
>"just imagine what you're drawing in a box then rotate it"
>going to take an crazy strong innate visualization talent
most people (with decent IQ) can visualize such things. it is a good test of who is dumb desu

>> No.5070961

>>5070957
If that were true then most people (with decent IQ) would be able to draw on the same level of e.g. KJG. Since that is obviously not the case you are evidently wrong, and I don't understand what compelled you to post such an easily disprovable claim.

>> No.5070974

>>5070961
the base is set, the rest is learning and repeating so your brain get familiar with, shapes, forms, lines, space, e.g. - if it "get's" it, it will play some parts on autopilot and now the main thing is how to set up the scene and make everything work together.
KJG is nearly 50, he draw everyday, drew on toilette-paper while takin' a sh't and so go on, and now you want to tell us everyone who with average IQ, is drawing 10+ hours a day?
Pls...

>> No.5070975

>>5070949
trans people and successful officecucks literally in his head 24/7 365 days a year rent free

>> No.5070977

>>5070974
Then what's your argument? Can people visualize and rotate 3D objects in their mind to a degree usable in drawing or not?

>> No.5070988

>>5070977
take a cube infront of you, now look at it,,look at every edge, and what comes in mind to you in which you set the importance to imagine this cube in space from different angles - close your eyes now - if your able to rotate it on your imaginative-level you suceed, if not, open your eyes, look at the cube again, but now from 2-4 different angles and repeat the excercise till it sticks.

Now do this for everything you see and don't complicate yourself but complicate the subject.

>> No.5070994

you're fucked if you can't rotate a box in your head. you're double fucked if you can't rotate a box in your head and decided to be angry at those who can instead of figuring out a physical solution to compensate.
Just quit now before you waste years of your life if you're this lazy

>> No.5071005

>>5070988
Yes I understand this very basic fundamental principle of drawing well, it's the fact all these pros think it's illuminating enough for the next step to be "now draw this super complex detailed design from all angles using nothing but the box as a guide" is what makes it clear they had the talent from the start and didn't need to work for it. For them, it just explained what they could already do and they thought it was a revelation, for anyone else, it means they have decades of grinding ahead of them to be able to instinctually do what the talented ones just did naturally.

>> No.5071011

>>5071005
even if that wouldbe true, why do you have to cut off your own hand and understanding, instead of challening it and come up with your reveleation of the cube?
You don't know if in 1/3/5 yrs. you could do better or worser, it is only by trying -if you want to put your time on something else than do it, but you will always find someone who is doin "better" - but that guy who is doin "better" will tell himself the same thing why you are doin" that specific thing "better".

>> No.5071016

>>5070804
I just said this in another thread.

I’m 39. At least 36 of those years I’ve been doing art. The only lesson is this.

The more you draw the more you can draw.

That is literally it.

>> No.5071024

>>5071016
And one more point is that OP brings up the ‘it’ and if you have it or not. If you have enough of ‘it’ to do it go for it. But if you don’t have it, do NOT waste your time making soulless emulations that you will never enjoy.

>> No.5071031

it does kinda help visualizing something 3d.

>> No.5071051

>>5070946
The trick to "appeal" is to relax. You're not going to be the best or even great, so discard any thoughts relating to that shit. Be loose. Draw what you want, when you want, without worrying about if it looks good. Improvement comes naturally if you're not hyperconscious of it. A watched pot never boils.

>> No.5071059

>>5070975
Trannies *

>> No.5071172

>>5070951
I don't really care about the money, I just want to make the stuff I imagine into reality

>> No.5071186

just be talented and waste 4 months

>> No.5071264

>>5070804
NGMI

>> No.5071283

>>5070804
what do you expect? for them to say a magic word and then you can instantly draw like a god?

>> No.5071286

>>5071283
>what do you expect? for them to say a magic word and then you can instantly draw like a god?
>magic word
Loomis

>> No.5071298

You learn rotation at the line and plane phase, not the box phase. Thats why people like op think talent is a thing, because they choose to skip the basics out of their own ego. Or they misinterpret the purpose of basic drawing practice.

Also you place the simple forms in the box first then build up, do this enough and you wont need construction.

So stop being lazy, go back to studying line, because Clearly you were not ready to move on.

>> No.5071301

>>5070804
so this is the power of NGMI

>> No.5071303

Willing to bet op is a DAB student.

>> No.5071309

>>5070804
Since you realize you don’t have “it” then draw from reference like the rest of us talentlets and try and have fun.

>> No.5071315

>>5071309
There is no it. He is just lazy.

>> No.5071378

no

>> No.5071390
File: 199 KB, 292x285, 1578936554614.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5071390

Why am I so talented?

>> No.5071442

>>5070804
>[HEADCANON]
>Redditspacing
Run.
FAST.

>> No.5072087
File: 3.47 MB, 1080x1620, jxalua6rsgv31.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5072087

>>5071298
Draw this from three different angles

>> No.5073121

>>5070804
So you expect to have the same skill level than someone that has being drawing his entire life because otherwise "it wouldn't be fair"?

You said something really stupid, instead of complaining find your way of understanding. Literally every artist learns differently, but they all study the same. If you aren't willing to put the minimum effort, then just quit. Your nonsensical complaints won't help you at all.

>> No.5073131

funny how every artist that made it to the top values practice and actually drawing to become better at it.
Marco bucci, KJG, the nigga from design cinema, ruan jia, etc are all lying and were obviously born with talent to draw and did not spend their entire lives to get better at it. Kill yourself.

>> No.5073143

>>5073131
>>5073121
Based gonna make it anons!

>> No.5073269

Why would i try to rotate a dragon lol.

>> No.5073308

>>5070804
I think it's embarrassing your attitude towards women reflects your failure with art.
You're a social darwinist.
People have their own experiences and sometimes the curse of knowledge will poison attempts to teach others.
That is why as a student it is up to you to draw your own conclusions.
Invent your own methods, experiment.
Most importantly think for yourself.
No one instructor will be able to write the gospel.

>> No.5073827

>>5073131
KJG understood 3D form and rotation when he was in kindergarten and all his practice has been towards perfecting his craft, most anons on /ic/ still haven't grasped 3D form despite hundreds of hours of grinding which is essentially not productive until you get the breakthrough. It's the difference between a science savant understanding his field and using his knowledge and time to create new breakthroughs, and your regular brainlet who's struggling to intuitively understand what was already figured out and taught to him.

>> No.5073847

>>5073827
grinding is stupid anyway? if you dont actually think about what you're doing you wont learn anything

>> No.5073854

>>5070804
If you can't just do that you actually are a retard with mental disability, apply to a special needs drawing school or somehing.

>> No.5073857

>>5073827
KJG is super talented and grinds like a madman, but for one KJG and tens and thousands of pros who aren't as talented and who got where they are by grinding and crutches

>> No.5073858

>>5073827
and if he never drew at all, even with his understanding at kindergarten, would he be the artist he is today? He needed practice to build onto the base, even you acknowledge that. He wouldnt be shit if he didnt spend his life drawing.
marco bucci was fucking garbage when he was a teenager, he says all his successes are due to his hard work and study. he even kept one of his drawings in his pocket just to remind himself how trash he used to be and improve from that.
maybe art is not for you. But not for the reasons you believe.

>> No.5073872

>>5070804
you mean you don't draw just for the love of drawing? the true mark of a ngmi

>> No.5073883

>>5073827
Here's what you begs don't understand. Having talent doesn't mean you don't have to practice. Kim having talent at an early age wouldn't mean shit if he didn't continue to spend every waking moment drawing like he still does. He doesn't even stop drawing to eat sometimes. That's why he's so good because very few people, even naturally talented people do that.

>> No.5073884

>>5073827
Pure talent

>> No.5073904

>>5073858
>and if he never drew at all, even with his understanding at kindergarten, would he be the artist he is today?
He would be ahead most anons here

>> No.5073916

You can't fake talent.

>> No.5073930

>>5071298
What should I do to study this?

>> No.5073932

>>5073827
>most anons on /ic/
>hundreds of hours of grinding
shitposting doesnt count as grinding

>> No.5073940

>>5070804
unironically, is this the power of drawabox?

>> No.5073964

>>5073883
Are you illiterate by any chance? I've repeated myself several times and you didn't get the point. If getting good was a race, practicing for people with talent is like starting the race and making progress towards the goal with each step, however "practicing" i.e. grinding for people without talent is like being lost and not even knowing where the race is being held, while you're stumbling around confusedly looking for the race you are not making any progress in it, you're wasting time and haven't even made the first step yet.

Now imagine there were multiple races, talented artists just hop from one to the other but you keep getting lost each time you finish one, it will forever take you exponentially more time to catch up to the same level, and you will have to spend most of it forcing your brain to intuitively understand things talented individuals just feel from birth. If it took KJG a lifetime to get to where he is, it would take anyone else ten lifetimes.

>> No.5074083

>>5073964
You aren’t KJG. Get over it. Stop letting him live rent free in your brain. Trace the faggot if you love him so much. Just draw if you actually enjoy drawing or continue seething that someone was born better than you at art.

>> No.5074094

>>5071286
Kek

>> No.5074110

>>5070804
Ok talent is real,and if you don't think in 3d when you're born it hopeless.
But what should we do now?
It's the thing I hate about this kind of threads,ok we're not equals so what?What should we do if we do not have talent/good genetics/ligmameme?

>> No.5074112

>>5070804
>You'll forever take at least twice as long to do this and will always be playing catch-up.
Exactly! Now what is your answer? Will you do your best to achieve your dreams or retreat and whine like a beaten dog?

>> No.5074124

>>5073964
>why bother trying to have sex if i don't have the biggest cock in the world

>> No.5074130

>>5073964
>If getting good was a race

It's not a race when it comes to art,since we all have our path.

>> No.5074238

>>5073964
This is what getting pampered as a child does to people. You think you're entitled to everything and if something doesn't come effortlessly, there's no point in pursuing it.

>> No.5074535

op, if you're actually not baiting people. give a listen to "creativity and the campfire" sometime, pirate it on cg if you must.

>> No.5074543

>>5070946
i suggest to invest in a gun and shoot yourself

>> No.5074559
File: 66 KB, 564x765, KC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5074559

Can someone explain this to me?
How do I draw cubes in degrees?
How do I draw perfect cubes freehand?

>> No.5074642

>>5070804
Those who know how to draw doesnt want to be bothered with this question all the time so they tell you some half assed bs...cant blame em
Those who claim to know, are probably selling you a product...or a method that probably doenst work for you

You're better off with books...and first and foremost, using your head

>> No.5074650

>>5074559
The "actual" way to measure out perfect cubes in perspective is rather cumbersome, his method is merely an approximation thats good enough to use to visualize things in 3d space in terms of cubes without going through all that trouble.

>> No.5074693

>>5073930
I will answer in a bit with some text and pic related. May even make a thread dedicated to it.

>> No.5074901

>>5070977
this shit is not hard. EVERY artist after a lifetime of doing the shit, is able to do the heavy construction in their heads and is able to get all the info they need down on paper in a parseable way without drawing everything.

learn perspective, draw a fucking box, now draw the box just as big as it needs to be for the object to fit in it, this isn't hard.

here, watch the 8gb watts video because he goes into great detail about it, then there is this fat guy with an easel who teaches you how to scribble and get all the info you need down, and that should give you an idea of what you are aiming for.

>> No.5074930

>>5074901
>EVERY artist after a lifetime of doing the shit, is able to do the heavy construction in their heads
And some are able to do it right from the gate, which are most of those you see as having "made it"

>> No.5074934

>>5070804
Actually it's a legitimate skill called spatial reasoning. The ability to imagine an object mentally and then rotate it at will, while keeping its attributes correctly organized, is a skill that comes naturally to many people but can be trained when you are bad at it (see: organic chemistry). It's also generally higher in men, but again, anyone can train to get better at it.

>> No.5074937

>>5074930
Thats completely false.

>> No.5074951

>>5074937
I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but the people dominating any skill-heavy field on this earth were born with the natural propensity of being really good at them. You think talented pro athletes are playing with and against regular Joes that trained really hard?

>> No.5074956

>>5074951
As someone who has "made it" from being the worst in the class, you are completely full of crap. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

>> No.5074958
File: 96 KB, 218x265, cba.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5074958

>>5074956
>on /ic/
>thinks he "made it"

>> No.5074978

>>5074951
I like how all the people who work hard, agrees that talent is not a thing. But the lazy man thinks your just born with it.

I used to write a lot of poetry when i was young. Kids in my class thought i was naturally talented. Then i showed them my study journal. Filled with practice excersise, curiosity and sentence structure. That shut them up real quick.

>> No.5074985

>>5074978
You need both to compete or partake on any serious level, that's the entire point I've been trying to make this entire thread, but I guess /ic/ anons aren't talented at being literate.

>> No.5075002

>>5074985
Its hard work and curiosity. Not talent. If your not curious, have passion for what your doing.your not going to understand what your doing. Inhuman amounts of practice for a concept of rotation is due to you lacking that curiosity. You work smart not hard.

Its the same as learning shading by starting with a human head, instead of a sphere. The person who shaded 100 spheres will have stronger rebdering skills and understanding than the guy who grinded 1000 shaded heads.

You never learn complex techniques with complex forms. You use simple forms to understand those complex techniques.You still have to grind, but your not grinding for the sake of repetition,but now understanding.

Thats why you start rotation at the line phase. Not the form phase.

>> No.5075014

>>5070961
>most people (with decent IQ) would be able to draw on the same level of e.g. KJG

Most people could do a lot of things if you sat them down, showed them the tricks, then gave them a couple years to grind. They have other things in their lives they're more interested in.

>> No.5075078

>>5074985
You are just trolling, you can't be that stupid.

Talented artists do exist, but not every good artist is talented. Just stop crying because no one is there to teach you everything you should know like if you were a 5 year old retarded kid. You just don't want to put the effort, your negativity makes you get anxious and you end up all frustrated, therefore you don't learn shit.

Stop your bad habits and you will start learning, if you compare yourself everyday to professional artists; you won't ever make it. You are supposed to learn from them, not compare to them.

>> No.5075131

>>5074951
We were all born with the sole ability to shit ourselves and cry about it, some of us have progressed past that point.

>> No.5075159

>>5075002
I was good in math and similar subjects in school and I had a friend who wasn't, but worked like crazy to get good. He'd hear a lesson, understand none of it, go home, re-read it hundreds of times, do hundreds of practice exercises, memorize everything, and still not grasp it to intuitively understand what it was about or apply that knowledge, whereas I'd hear it and just know what it was about as it was being explained, I was top of the class with literally zero effort or homework or practice, and my friend relied on me to help him apply his memorized knowledge during tests.

I've been drawing my whole life, I've filled countless sketchbooks, read dozens of books, watched hundreds of hours of video courses, I understand the material and theory perfectly and clearly, I can look at someone's drawing and explain in detail why every line and tone and color is there in detail, yet when it comes to actually putting that knowledge into practice and making something of my own, I'm like my friend who just didn't have the math in him, and my mind is fucking blank. I look at 18yo tumblr or twitter artists who effortlessly churn out appealing work and I recognize that, while I'll one day be able to put stuff of similar quality together if I keep at it, it will be the same excruciating struggle I feel while drawing right now except with better results, and my actual mindset and brain's approach to drawing will NEVER be able to do what it can do with math, or what talented artists can do with art.

>> No.5075164

>>5075159
You know how i can tell your lying? Because you struggle with rotation. So your story is inherently false. How can you claim to be good at math and simultaneously cant grasp basic rotation.

You are definitely trolling this thread. Or your delusional.

>> No.5075175

>>5075159
"Understanding" is not enough. Art is all about doing and barely any theory is necessary. You say you filled up sketchbooks, how many of those were actual complete drawings/paintings? If you never finish a piece, you'll never learn appeal. And have you studied composition? That's the whole subject dedicated to learning 'appeal'.

Furthermore, you really need you turn yourself into a human printer. If I show you a picture of a human, you need to copy that 100%. If I show you a picture produced by a pro artist, you need to copy that 100%. Then when I show you two pictures, you'll be able to combine those two images in your brain and produce an awesome 'original' artwork. Appeal is really as simple as mathematics.

If you're good at mathematics there's also literally no reason at all why you can't use a bunch of rulers to construct the object 3 dimensionally to produce the same result as the OP image. And surely, even if you are the biggest talentless retard ever you can go onto sketchfab and using someone else's 3D dragon head you'll be able to draw exactly what's there by copying it 100% and make the OP image.

>> No.5075193

>>5075164
I used rotation as an example precisely because I understand it so well, and going by what all these artists have to say about their skill, that would mean I have all the makings of a successful artist right now. What they always forget to mention is the actually important stuff, i.e. the stuff they consider a given since they understand it subconsciously, like gesture, rhythm, composition, emotion, mood etc. A 3D program can rotate models with pinpoint precision, but it can't do anything to make them more relatable to humans, at least without human input.

>>5075175
I do complete drawings fairly often and it's a struggle each time and I'm as unsatisfied with them now as I was when I first started out. I can do everything you just said, especially copying, I can even create some appeal once in a blue moon, but it's more of a random stroke of luck in endless trial and error rather than the result of intuition or knowledge. It's a slow choppy manual process and it always will be, even all the practice in the world wouldn't make it an automatic effortless instinct like it is for many, or like math is for me.

>> No.5075196

>>5075193
You wouldnt have used rotation as an example if you understood it. Your basicly just contradicting yourself at this point.

>> No.5075231

>>5075193
If 3D models can't make things relatable to humans, why does it get taught in every art school curriculum? Precisely because there are people with an imagination deficit such as you. Some people even sculpt IRL instead of digitally before making any artwork. If you are good at math, it would be more beneficial to play to your strengths and use aids like CAD software rather than bang your head repeatedly for things like rotation.

In every case I've seen, there are clear reasons why people don't get good, because they religiously decide to be shit. Whether that's a complete refusal to use reference or a complete refusal to use industry standard tools to produce quality work. So use every crutch you need or suffer the consequences.

>I do complete drawings fairly often and it's a struggle each time and I'm as unsatisfied with them now as I was when I first started out.
That's the point, as you improve your standards increase. You said you were bad at composition so instead of copying photos or from life you should copy from other people's art instead and watch courses on design and composition. I highly recommend Framed Ink.

>I can do everything you just said, especially copying, I can even create some appeal once in a blue moon, but it's more of a random stroke of luck in endless trial and error rather than the result of intuition or knowledge
Which is again perfectly normal in the art process. When you improve more you will produce more consistent work
>It's a slow choppy manual process
And it gets even slower as for me the average piece takes like 20-30 hours.
>and it always will be, even all the practice in the world wouldn't make it an automatic effortless instinct
Art is never an effortless instinct. Watch more artists livestreaming and they will repeatedly redraw the same shit so many times you will fall asleep. I used to watch one amazing artist who took like 12 hours to draw the outline of one bird.

>> No.5075242

Dont play catch up, just be good.