/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.5018196]

"go to drawabox.com"
"read the sticky"
"work on your forms"
"do more gestures"
"study anatomy"
"moar loomis"
"snibbety snab =DDD"

^^^you assholes were too busy saying this shit that NONE OF YOU EVER POINTED OUT HOW IMPORTANT VALUE IS, or rather that my total lack of understand of it was my major roadblock. i have been trying to study all of these fucking textbooks and shit for years now but NOBODY, i repeat NOBODY ON THIS BOARD has ever told me that VALUE is such a fucking crucial concept.

i have been banging my head against a brick wall for years, and only now after someone NOT FROM THIS PIECE OF SHIT BOARD kindly explained that VALUE was my main problem, i can actually BEGIN to learn how to draw fucking human beings now instead of just creating a bunch of meaningless flat shapes. thank fuck that some people are smart enough to explain that things like line weight, shadows, reflected light, etc are actually some of the most important things ever, instead of redirecting me to fucking drawabitch or poopko or villpoo or loonis or shitmann or telling me to work on form of perspective for the millionth fucking time.

screw this entire useless ass board twice up the ass and thrice in the mouth and fuck your mothers precisely eight times in the cooter and twelve million times in both nostrils with a rotten, decaying elephant cock covered in metal spikes laced with rat poison. you are all a bunch of fucking unhelpful pieces of regurgitated reptilian shit and i genuinely hope that NONE OF YOU EVER MAKE IT.

fucking poopy heads

[Anonymous No.5018199]

>>5018196
You missed Keys To Drawing

[Anonymous No.5018200]

this is what i want to do all over this fucking useless site

[Anonymous No.5018206]

>>5018196
Hard round brush

[Anonymous No.5018207]

>>5018196
it took you literal years to figure out value man?

[Anonymous No.5018208]

>>5018196
Maybe Im the retard but value is the first thing I think of when I hear someone say light or form lol.

Pretty sure you just dumb af m8. sorry bro glad you can read now tho

[Anonymous No.5018209]

>>5018196
yeah keep rendering you'll become the next michelangelo :^)

[Anonymous No.5018212]

>>5018196
the state of this fucking board

[Anonymous No.5018217]

That's because you didn't learn from Brent Eviston >>5018024

[Anonymous No.5018232]

>>5018212
I know right.
>I didnt think you meant I should focus on form when you spammed feel the form, it’s your fault I’m shit

[Anonymous No.5018233]

>>5018196
yep, it's schizo time

[Anonymous No.5018255]

>>5018196
how do i learn to control my pencil?
i go way to dark
i suppose its a discipline but is there a way i can train this issue?

[Anonymous No.5018276]

>>5018196

[Anonymous No.5018280]

>>5018196
The example in pic related is an example of polishing a turd.

[Anonymous No.5018291]

>>5018232
you said form, not value

[Anonymous No.5018292]

>>5018196
the sticky tells you value is a fundamental, if it's a fundamental it's important by proxy, go back to /beg/

[Anonymous No.5018294]

>>5018276
AND THAT LOOKS GOOD AS SHIT MFER

>>5018280
at least i can polish the fucking thing now

>>5018255
overhand grip, forces you to use the shoulder and be lighter

[Anonymous No.5018295]

>>5018292
it doesnt say that it's THE MOST important one. like fuck all other concepts; i didnt even pay attention to construction or perspective or any other fundamentals in the image i posted, and yet it looks 10x better than the shit i drew without knowing what value is.

[Anonymous No.5018297]

>>5018295
both looks pretty awful, sorry

[Anonymous No.5018298]

>>5018291
ffs read loomis

[Anonymous No.5018301]

>>5018297
sure but at least admit the former looks worse. im still a beg but at least im not pre-beg like i was before.

[Anonymous No.5018302]

>>5018298
i did. he kept saying form form form bla bla bla WITHOUT SAYING THAT VALUE IS THE CRITICAL COMPONENT THAT EVERYONE REQUIRES TO STUDY FORM.

you assume that it is common knowledge that value is what gives form to objects.

[Anonymous No.5018303]

>>5018301

[Anonymous No.5018305]

>>5018303
you cannot say that they are of equal quality, especially considering they were drawn a day apart.

[Anonymous No.5018307]

>>5018196
Moron.

[Anonymous No.5018308]

>>5018302
KEYS.


TO.


DRAWING.

[Anonymous No.5018316]

>>5018308
ive read about 20 books on drawing by now, all of which have been useless so far as i did not know what value is. if you told me to read "keys to drawing", i wouldve assumed it was just another book covering the same shit as before that wouldnt have benefited me.

someone literally had to emphasize to me that value is the MOST IMPORTANT fundamental out of all of them.

[Anonymous No.5018319]

you know what honestly, I CAN READ THOSE FUCKING BOOKS NOW AND LEARN FROM THEM. yeah fucking 3 years later i can finally LEARN instead of stagnating as a total failure.

[Anonymous No.5018325]

I'll watch closely how you struggle to keep improving without proper construction

[Anonymous No.5018332]

>>5018316
If you think value is more important than shape you are a mega retard

[Anonymous No.5018334]

>>5018325
wrong: you will see me apply this knowledge to what i know about construction and slowly but surely improve after 3 years of stagnating.

im not gonna give up no matter how much false discouragement you give me

[Anonymous No.5018336]

>>5018332
sorry i cant hear you over literally this

[Anonymous No.5018340]

>>5018196
and here I thought I was stupid

[Anonymous No.5018341]

>>5018336
what you mean by this?

[Anonymous No.5018346]

>>5018196
>>5018200
Based

[Anonymous No.5018352]

>>5018196
>didn't read loomis

[Anonymous No.5018353]

>>5018336
what is this trash and what is it supposed to prove?

[Anonymous No.5018355]

>>5018341
look at that image. it had fuck all proper depiction of shapes or any coherence but it has marvelous value control and looks 10x better than a shit loomis head drawn without any understanding of value

[Anonymous No.5018357]

>>5018352
i actually did but now i can finally understand it / read it again and actually study it properly.

ive finally graduated from the short bus and can start learning like a normal person now

[Anonymous No.5018358]

>>5018355
ok, this thread must be a bait

[Anonymous No.5018359]

>>5018302
you don't have enough braincells to read a book, that explains your lack of improvement in drawing

[Anonymous No.5018361]

>>5018359
didn't*

[Anonymous No.5018368]

>>5018361
nope, you lack reading comprehension, you don't have enough braincells to pick a book and read it

[Anonymous No.5018373]

>>5018368
too late i just read the entire works of bridgemann and loomis combined and am now da vinci

rertard

[Anonymous No.5018378]

in all seriousness i am still shit and probably learningly challenged but now that i actually understand this concept im confident i can at least TRY to improve now if i give myself enough time and motivation.

so fuck this board. rant over.

[Anonymous No.5018382]

>>5018378
fuck you

[Anonymous No.5018383]

>>5018378
ok see you again tomorrow with your next rant!

[Anonymous No.5018386]

>>5018378
Like this place is a totally piece of shit but if you got spoon fed
>form
>gesture
>anatomy
>perspective
and you still hadn't figured out or even considered on your own that there might be some importance to the dark bits, and the light bits, and the middle bits in all the art you like or see then im sorry to inform you, your an npc. I don't believe you've ever read a book you weren't told to read and i doubt you ever made any serious attempt to understand the books you did read. You can literally google "fundamentals of art" and it will list several topics, including value, that are all worth delving deeper into, which if you ever took initiative into your own studies you would have found out about. But then again value shouldn't be something requiring explanation. Its fundamentally in everything and not recognizing it is as dumb as getting angry that no one told you about color.

Take some fucking action anon. Stop living like a troglodyte that only ever acts when told to, whether that be ic or an irl friend, your problem isn't value it's that all your critical thinking functions are done by others.

[Anonymous No.5018387]

>>5018355
ok and you can depict form just fine using wrapping lines, what's your point? Your example pic isn't that good, it's messy and hard to discern. Also, I don't know how you went multiple years without learning about wrapping lines, Hampton and Huston go over it in literally the first chapter of their books and I imagine most other courses do the same. Anyway, if you feel so enlightened after learning about value then you're in the minority here. Most people don't need value to understand form.

[Anonymous No.5018388]

The truth is, all fundamentals are of equal importance.
Value is not the ultimate secret to art.

Form, Value, Color, Composition, etc are all fundamentals that have to be equally cultivated, otherwise your art will look bad

[Anonymous No.5018390]

>>5018373
>thinking reading = instant improvement
shows why it took you 3 years to figure out value is a fundamental

[Anonymous No.5018408]

>>5018378
eat shit and die you brainlet

[Anonymous No.5018462]

nigger vilppu has some of the best lessons on using tone in figure drawings anyone has ever made. you are retarded as fuck

[Anonymous No.5018493]

Is value just as hard to explain as 'feel the form' and 'line of action'?
Cause I don't get those 3.

[Anonymous No.5018515]

>>5018493
Value is the amount of stuff is there. Like shadows, and highlights and tones. All those things are value. Value is what gives depth because it appears theres stuff there going from light to dark.

feel the form is the idea that everything is fucking mushy potatoes and with your pencil you are mashing the potatoes into shape with your hands, and when you mash enough potatoes you make something that is a form.

The line of action is simply where the eye tracks through on a picture. A picture is still, but because it's a snapshot, there was movement in it before. Design elements also help for things like buildings. Where does the eye normally start looking at things? What catches the attention? Then from there, where does the eye generally move? Along what lines does the image tell you to look? For people there's generally a through line of things youve seen a bunch of.

[Anonymous No.5018544]

>>5018196
I regularly see people giving advice on value, sorry that you’re too /beg/ to git gud.

[Anonymous No.5018552]

>>5018515
Sounds like pretty advanced stuff needed for finishing pictures.

I'm still trying to just sketch decent looking humans but I will remember that for later, thank you.

[Anonymous No.5018847]

>>5018332
My 1st & last post on this dogshit board for the year
Shut the fuck up & draw you mongoloid. Shitposting and agonizing over midwit techniques is a waste of your time and you're killing yourself as an artist by posting here
Go out & express yourself

[Anonymous No.5018880]

>>5018847
Why don't you go out and express yourself

[Anonymous No.5018885]

Ring ring
It’s shizo O’clock

[Anonymous No.5018887]

Welcome back, is this your record? 5 hours without posting?

[Anonymous No.5018900]

>>5018552
Value is important for sketching pictures because lines are just the representation of forms at extreme value.

[Anonymous No.5018904]

>>5018196
>using lined paper
my sides, please, kindly fuck off kid

[Anonymous No.5018933]

>>5018295
this is bait

[Anonymous No.5018952]

>>5018196
You are responsible for your own learning. If your gripe is that you made it years into your drawing study and never decided to approach value because fucking 4Chan didn't tell you to do it, you're a fucking goof. The majority of resources people recommend here (including Loomis), and literally every figure drawing program cover value. Did you actually read any of them? Going years without improvement tells me that you 100% did not take your learning seriously and wasted your time on the internet looking for shortcuts.

[Anonymous No.5019011]

>>5018355
Value is just another tool to helps you show the form exists in deep space, but your lines alone should be able to do that first before rely on value.

[Anonymous No.5019013]

>>5018196
value is informed by the forms you fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.5019150]

bargue plates teach value

[Anonymous No.5019235]

Wait a minute if he read Hampton, and watched Villppu they go over atmosphere and form/values. They explain that values help to provide the shape through contrast. I don't understand how you've done this. Have you watch any of the Draftsmen podcasts?
Breh, I am worried about you.
Also it's easier to just follow what marshal recommends btw should uh checkout his recommended books. Just saying bro goodluck

[Anonymous No.5019256]

Value is a meme

[Anonymous No.5019296]

Loomis is a retarded nigger.

[Anonymous No.5019533]

>>5018196
>instead of just creating a bunch of meaningless flat shapes.
That's what happens when your tutorials are about creating a bunch of meaningless flat shapes.
>screw this entire useless ass board
Why did you think social/anti-social media would help you in learning skills?
It exists for people with nothing better to do, and no skills, to congregate on.

[Anonymous No.5019712]

>>5018196
Value is a painting fundamental, not a drawing one.
It's recommended you get decent at drawing before delving into painting, that's why no one recommends learning values when you're starting out.

[Anonymous No.5019733]

If you read Loomis you would have FUCKING SEEN THE VALUE SECTION. Holy crap! He goes through planes and lighting in his figure drawing book. He goes through perspective! He goes through anatomy! He goes through solid forms!

Fucking Loomis heads and gesture drawings are like one part of Loomis you dumb cunt! Go read Keys To Drawing! You're not ready yet

[Anonymous No.5019738]

>>5018378
>Give myself enough time and motivation
Oh anon.....this tells me everything. You're impatient and probably skimmed through the books and drew brainlessly instead of actual study.

[Anonymous No.5019777]

>>5019733
I think too many people can't just sit down and read his books and study them and refer to his modern contemporaries like Villpu because they have recorded video courses to follow along.

[Anonymous No.5020938]

>>5018305
>put in 0 effort on the left, probably spent an hour on the right

you don't need value to make a good drawing, you can use line weight, so values not the most important fundamental.

[Anonymous No.5020960]

>>5018200
Thanks for that

[Anonymous No.5021575]

>>5020938
Even in painting good shapes are more important than value. Anon will realize it once he finds he hits a wall.

[Anonymous No.5022357]

>>5018336
This is really bad...
Remember that learning values to draw from observation is one thing. Organization of value for good composition is another. Those are separate skills. But you're on the right track, value is important. I'd suggest you do Jonathan Hardesty's courses on Schoolism, its on cgpeers too. You don't yet understand value btw, it'll make a world of a difference when you actually do.

[Anonymous No.5022361]

>>5022357
And once you are competent enough with proportion/form/values/edges that you can draw from observation at a decent level, you will be frustrated at how shit your imaginative work is. You need then focus on studying composition, anatomy and the like. Lighting too after that. Schoolism has most of it. And that's real advice from beyond the bucket. Take it or leave it.

[Anonymous No.5022363]

>>5018336
Looks like something the schizo pixel art anon would post.

[Anonymous No.5022544]

>>5018200
poopilled

[Anonymous No.5022665]

>>5018291
You haven't been working very hard if that is what your work looked like after years. I already have better forms than you and I've only been back at drawing for a little over a month. Sure value and rendering is important, but A well rendered drawing with bad forms will look like a polished turd. And rendering is all about how light interacts with a 3D object, the better you understand form, the eaiser rendering will come to you. It's not that other stuff like rendering isn't important, it's that drawing good forms is the building blocks for are drawings, it's the foundation

[Anonymous No.5024673]

>>5018196
Do more gestures retard, after 1000 gestures it finally clicked for me. For no reason at all I got good at feeling the forms. Try it

[Anonymous No.5026417]

>>5018199
fpbp

[Anonymous No.5026422]

>>5018196
L O O M I S

[Anonymous No.5027439]

>>5018336
>Maxresdefault(3)

Hahahahahaha ok buddy

[Anonymous No.5028009]

>>5018336
That is a really cool piece

[Anonymous No.5029080]

>>5024673
I can agree, doing gestures help for some reason. God bless Vilppu

[Anonymous No.5029107]

>>5024673
>Just a thousand guys, do it and you'll understand how to draw after 1000 drawings, it's just the gesture that helped and definitely not the hours of observing and drawing figures

[Anonymous No.5029192]

>>5029107
>doesn't believe in magic
ngmi

[Anonymous No.5030223]

>>5018200