Millions of artists and nobody cares

[Anonymous No.5010395]

Anyone else really depressed thinking about all the artists doing their best and making art, even though for 99% of them will never been seen and nobody will ever care?

Take the boorus for example, thousands of hand picked art which is clearly a tier above the rest, yet they just get drowned out and ignored by the constant flood of more art. Most will never been looked for more than a 1 second as a thumbnail on the index page.

It just breaks my heart. Why do we try so hard

[Anonymous No.5010397]

arr rook same

[Anonymous No.5010406]

>>5010395
You look at it with a bleek nature. Take for example the first image in your picture--that artist contributed to the fandom in that particular space. Those who enjoy pokemon (and lots do) will see their work and appreciate it.

Sounds to me you just don't enjoy anything, OP.

[Anonymous No.5010407]

>>5010395
Maybe they're drawing moeshit out of fun in their past time while being a professional working at a multinational studio and we are the ones busting our balls trying to draw what they do on a Sunday.

[Anonymous No.5010408]

>why do we try so hard
We do it because we enjoy making art for ourselves or for others and ultimately getting the joy of just drawing what the fuck you want without any handicaps. So what if no one cares? The only people that should care are other artists giving you critique and word of advice to better your craft.

[Anonymous No.5010421]

You can say that about any industry, how many bands, videogames are there, who cares draw for yourself, the more retarded the fanbase the better response is, i put my drawing on gelbooru and have almost zero likes, i put the same drawing but with cat ears and have 100 likes first day on e621, the best things in the world have zero mainstream appeal

[Anonymous No.5010424]

Imagine being OP and thinking we do art for validation. Also small mommy gf pls!

[Anonymous No.5010426]

>>5010395
If your only measure of success is validation from others or even acknowledgement from others you will endure an unfulfilled life of suffering. Drawing is no different than any other activity you can partake in this regard. When you find satisfaction from within you will know happiness. I aim to never depend on others, even for immaterial needs. This doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy socialisation or acknowledgement when it does happen, it just means I don’t depend on it to be happy

[Anonymous No.5010429]

>>5010424
Looks like a literal child, gross

[Anonymous No.5010430]

>>5010429
>t. virgin
children are much hotter than that

[Anonymous No.5010433]

>>5010429
Kids are more ugly, that is a mature flat chest mommy.

[Anonymous No.5010436]

>>5010430
t. married to milkermommy actually but kk

[Anonymous No.5010437]

somebody liked their art and cared enough to share and reupload it on different website

[Anonymous No.5010454]

- Don't make generic anime

- If you must pursue anime then make it look unique and apply your own (non anime) influences and fundamentals to the process so people recognize you by your style. Keep trying because its difficult and copying generic anime is the easier road but ultimately no one will care about your work.

- If you pursue something that isn't anime, train hard to make give it appeal. Copying anime has the advantage of getting easy appeal. Lots of western styles severely lack appeal. See cartoon network and adult swim being invaded by the tumblr style and calarts meme. People often fall back on Disney/Pixar style because it is a formula for appeal, as anime (based on 1930/40s disney) also is. This is a difficult path and people will just give up and draw generic or unappealing styles.

Basically, shits hard yo. People skim over stuff they've seen a million times. Trying to stand out without being subversive tumblr trash is difficult.

[Anonymous No.5010457]

>>5010424

[Anonymous No.5010507]

>>5010395
>99% of them will never been seen and nobody will ever care
It's kind of hard online because you have to up your "marketing" too. Like if you want to get attention, you can't just post art into the void and that's it. You have to be your own cheerleader, share your art, talk about it, then turn it around and talk to other people about their art. Then you start to grow your social presence, etc
It's rare to just post and have thousands see it and retweet it, especially if you don't post what it is, etc
At the same time, maybe these artists don't want that kind of attention. They draw what they love and that's it, then move on

[Anonymous No.5010510]

>>5010437
>somebody liked their art and cared enough to share and reupload it on different website
Imagine actually believing this. The same artists uploaded that crap on their own dummy.

[Anonymous No.5010525]

I think its time as artists we stop putting so much emphasis on mass appeal. That era in which artists can make it big or make large amounts of money on their work and name alone is long gone, that space wholly owned by large corporations. I think artists should be more specific with their work; this is simultaneously the worst and the greatest time to create art.

You may not make gobs of money, but you have more control over your work, and what you want to put out there.

[Anonymous No.5010537]

>>5010510
most artists dont upload their own works there

[Anonymous No.5010543]

>>5010424
Her belly button looks like a uncircumcised dick becoming a slight chub and slipping out.

[Anonymous No.5010546]

>>5010543
I want to kiss it.

[Anonymous No.5010548]

>>5010525
>That era in which artists can make it big or make large amounts of money on their work and name alone is long gone
nigga, sakimichan was getting 70k a month for jpegs before hiding her patreon stats, and she’s had a constant, steady growth in patrons the entire time, she has almost 3 times as many patrons now, she could be making millions a year
for jpegs of anime characters on photo bashed backgrounds
maybe YOU can’t cut it, but plenty artists can and the market is clearly there

[Anonymous No.5010555]

>>5010395
It's largely futile, because art isn't valuable or special. Art is as common as shitting, everyone can do it.

[Anonymous No.5010563]

Most boorus run a patreon, a shop or some kind of membership subscription. You should contact them to get blacklisted if you see your work posted there.

[Anonymous No.5010566]

>>5010548

I'd be willing to bet money Sakimichan has a team of people behind her.

[Anonymous No.5010568]

>>5010395
I had a similar notion a few weeks ago, not necessarily about Art but about people and media in general.

7b+ people, shit is just moving too fast for me. It hurts me how much great work, talent and art is just swept under rug. Millions of artists are out there and even of the 1% who make it, who will be remembered in the future where everything is over saturated.

A Oversaturated reality. So much bullshit, so much nonsense at the top. And even a worldwide trend will be gone in 2 weeks.

This why artists should strive for something more at the very least. Portofilio's, patronage, individual ism, and maybe teaching a younger generation about appreciation may be an artist tool against this overwhelming force

[Anonymous No.5010573]

even the people we regard as masters are just footnotes in history textbooks and largely forgotten. the chances of you being remembered for any skillful example of draftsmanship is nonexistent.

if youre wanting fame through art then you’ll need to be some giga master like kim jung gi or be some eccentric vain schizo that suffered until his demise and only attained fame post-death.

[Anonymous No.5010575]

>>5010548

Doesn't she just make lewd fanart of IPs that don't belong to her? She's made a name getting people off to other's works. That ain't her work. Thats a gimmick.

[Anonymous No.5010581]

>>5010566
now almost definitely, but I’ve been looking at her old process videos just for shits and giggles, and in one her roommate comes in and won’t shut the fuck up, she was living with a colleague from the same company, no way she was paying someone to pump out her content
she also apparently worked on mass effect as a concept artist
I actually recommend you watch her process videos, at least the old ones where you know it’s her, she is very efficient, paints mostly on a single layer and finishes a painting in a handful of hours
it also brings into perspective how autistic a lot of what you hear on /ic/ is, like she says she gets a lot of shit because she draws hair flying everywhere and how it doesn’t make sense and defies logic, and her response is “but it fills up the canvas, so...”
>>5010575
now tell me how frank miller’s work is a gimmick and he made a name off of other people’s work
this is the kind of autism I’m talking about

[Anonymous No.5010582]

>>5010575
>op posts about artists going unnoticed and unappreciated, posts pic full of fanart
>sakimichan gets mentioned
>>s-she only got popular because of fanart, that’s cheating

[Anonymous No.5010589]

>>5010582
Am I wrong, though?

Look, I get it. If you're in it for the money, there's no need to be ashamed of that. But you need to acknowledge that half of your work is already done for you by the time you put paint to canvas if you want to do something like that. You're not creating, you're copying.

[Anonymous No.5010597]

>>5010589
>You're not creating, you're copying.
So if you use reference, you’re not an artist? Are portraits art? You’re just copying a person’s design, just sitting there in boring 3/4 views, surely that is not art.
And what about Frank Miller? He just drew other people’s IP after someone else wrote the comic, what a fucking hack.

[Anonymous No.5010609]

>>5010395
> I stopped chasing fame, followers and social media clout
> I tailored my style of illustration to be more commercial friendly to attract more corporate clients.
> I now work regular gigs that - while not very prestigious/sexy - pay very well and are easy to do.
> MFW I'm now a much happier person.

It took me many years of trying to build up a freelance illustration career to get to a place of basic financial stability. Although I did make a lot of progress in that regard, I wasted so much time and effort worrying about Instagram / social media. I'm 29 now and would much rather chase a dollar than a follower. Being poor just sucks, and having a large online following is not going to magically change that. Putting all your eggs into trying to become e-famous is just a recipe for misery and depression. Financial success & stability is so much more important than a large online following. Take care of yourself today, and don't fret so much about your legacy or your fame.

[Anonymous No.5010611]

>>5010597

Using reference is much different than selling paintings of characters made by other people. I'm not saying it doesn't take skill, clearly it does. What I'm saying is that the thing that is making her money is not just hers, but the people who took the time to put in the thought necessary to design those characters.

Her art is shallow.

And I don't know enough about Frank Miller to say anything, so if you say he's a hack, so be it.

[Anonymous No.5010618]

>>5010424
She unironically looks kind of old

[Anonymous No.5010626]

>>5010611
she isn’t selling anything
people give her money because they like her shit
if the characters were the key factor, why aren’t they giving money to other people drawings said characters? why not to the op holders themselves?
once you stop being butthurt you might realize appeal has little to do with the superficial design elements, hence why the gap in the appeal of her work and everyone else using the same exact designs
I’m not saying you have to like or appreciate her work, I don’t, but if your take two seconds to apply logic to the situation, you’ll see what you’re saying makes no sense

[Anonymous No.5010627]

But the interesting way to think about it is, no, you don’t hang in a gallery and have a few hundred people each give every piece a few minutes of their time. Art is no longer an event in the technological age. I had a photography show a few years ago and no one remembers the art, everyone remembers the party that my part facilitated. It was wild. But my art, at that point, only reached a few hundred people. People I knew. Now, with modern technology, you have this flood of art because reality and physical space aren’t real anymore. Thus you have an image someone gave a second or two of their time to look at, but those two seconds are multiplied by factors of thousands. More total time is given to art online than if it was physical, even if our attention spans have been ruined by techno capital. Though I spend more time figuring out the captcha to post this than most art on /ic/.

[Anonymous No.5010628]

>>5010437
scripted bots

[Anonymous No.5010631]

>>5010581
but /ic/ knows frank is a hack

[Anonymous No.5010635]

>>5010395
just take the tracer pill already

[Anonymous No.5010636]

>>5010627
I’m not convinced it was ever any different, honestly.
I’m sure people commissioning their portraits would gush over it much like someone commissioning their fursona today, but do you think the pope spent much time admiring the sistine chapel? $20 says he walked in, went “yep, that’s very biblical, nice job mikey” and never gave it another thought

[Anonymous No.5010639]

>>5010609
hey anon im in the same boat. How much money are you making rn and what are your jobs usually about? I've only started my "grind" so im curious to know.

[Anonymous No.5010648]

>>5010626
>She isn't selling anything.

See, that's where you're wrong, she is 100% selling something. She is selling a product that appeals the most base of instincts, sexual drive. You want to know why people aren't spending money getting the original artists to draw porn of their characters? Because those artists don't want to ( or maybe they do, and are, I don't know).

Let's face it here, most of Sakimichans patrons are in it for the quick nut, not for anything Sakimichan has to say. If she were to deviate in any way from her norm (including challenging her fans or calling them out for being coombrains), she would lose a lot of patrons.

She's carved out a little niche for herself, but she does not create art, she creates branding, and there's a difference.

[Anonymous No.5010653]

Anime portrait is not art.

[Anonymous No.5010659]

>>5010395
Thousands of new images are created everyday, good luck standing out with your art alone, marketing is what you should focus

[Anonymous No.5010663]

Being an artist isn't special. You're just as worthless as anyone else on this world. The only difference is are you doing anything to try and change that or are you happy with where you are. Not implying that one way is better than the other, you can be happy with whichever. In the end, doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.5010664]

>>5010648
>she’s only popular because she uses other people’s IPs!
>she creates branding
???
>she sells porn!
What porn?
>you know why they don’t pay those other people? because they won’t do [thing]
>but maybe they will and actively do, I don’t even know
>but I’m still correct!
ok, so where does that leave all the other pornfags who draw the same characters?
>if she aggravated her audience, they wouldn’t like that
ok
>she does not create art
k, who creates art? what is art?

[Anonymous No.5010669]

>>5010664
>what is art?
definitely not what she makes

[Anonymous No.5010670]

>>5010669
answer the questions or fuck off

[Anonymous No.5010674]

>>5010568
I think about this daily. I don't even like to look at pretty or trendy shit anymore. I feel nothing when I look at masterful art. I'm trying to completely forget about making it. There's no point. I wish I had some kind of monk who could teach me to completely detach myself from the need for attention. I just want to create for creations sake.

[Anonymous No.5010680]

>>5010670
there https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/art

[Anonymous No.5010681]

for the people lamenting others not appreciating art or jus looking at it for 2 seconds and scrolling past, do you actually do that outside of trying to analyse an image technically? do you go around liking and commenting drawings? because I sure don’t

[Anonymous No.5010686]

>>5010680
so now you’re saying it is art?

[Anonymous No.5010690]

>>5010681
yeah i do scroll past most art, too lazy to like, comment, click to go to the source, but i'll download shit i could use for ref

[Anonymous No.5010692]

>>5010686
what, sakimi's turds? no, they are manure at best

[Anonymous No.5010698]

>>5010692
well, the dictionary disagrees, so I guess you’re wrong lol

[Anonymous No.5010700]

>>5010698
oh, right, modern art, now even turd is art, oh well

[Anonymous No.5010712]

>>5010700
>sakimichan
>modern art
oh no, it’s retarded

[Anonymous No.5010722]

>>5010712
i never said sakmi's art were modern art? modern art just made turd art a thing

[Anonymous No.5010723]

>>5010664

Alright, smoothbrain, let me lay it out for you.

Sakimichan's branding is her ability to take pre-existing characters and put them into sexual situations. Lots of people relate to this, because it is an unspecific idea of a drive that our entire species has.

Other pornfags are the same. They're either horny, or are looking at porn as a way to make easy money.

You clearly didn't get what I was trying to say with regards to the idea of Sakimichan leaving the comfortable circle of her branding to do something she wants to do or is passionate about. Imagine having to use all your time and talent to produce something that you care nothing or very little about for 30 years. You know what that's called? A job. Nothing creative about it.

Now, what is art? In my opinion, it should be a reflection of the artists tastes and and beliefs. Coombrains have no beliefs of their own and are simply to trying to feel good and escape from suffering.

[Anonymous No.5010732]

>>5010639
I'm on track to make about $55k USD this year. Last was around $45k, and $40k before that. This is huge bump up from the $10k-25k I was hovering around for several years while floundering around. Things got much better and easier once I started focusing my portfolio towards real-world jobs, rather than what gets the most 'likes'. Jobs range from editorial, illustrations for apparel, website illustrations, branding & advertising illustrations, etc. etc. Working for small/large businesses and agencies/studios is so, so much better than doing individual private commissions.

Going forward I'm looking towards getting to $100k, which I'm confident I'll do, especially since I'm starting to learn motion graphics to help expand the versatility of what I can offer (mograph ties in very well to illustration).

[Anonymous No.5010739]

>>5010732
Meanwhile I gave up that life because fuck that shit, it was so fucking boring

[Anonymous No.5010767]

>>5010395
Why would I be drawing for noteriety and not for my own Personal enjoyment?

[Anonymous No.5010771]

>>5010767
Because gaming exists and gives more dopamine than drawing, oh and drugs, always drugs

[Anonymous No.5010808]

>>5010732
Mind showing your works? I wonder what skills it requires to earn this much.

[Anonymous No.5010831]

>>5010771
It's hard being an artist in a world of plenty. Lots of distraction, lots of easy pleasure.

[Anonymous No.5010886]

>>5010723
>Sakimichan's branding is her ability to take pre-existing characters and put them into sexual situations
What situations? What sexual situations does she put them in? What are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.5010893]

>>5010723
Sakimichan draws pinups, breh.
I’m not sure she ever drew an explicit penetration, the most I ever saw is suggestive bumping.
Why do you believe her work is not a reflection of her interests and beliefs? Artists painted and sculpted naked women with big tits for thousands of years, how is that not art just because you don’t like it?

[Anonymous No.5010900]

art is a high risk high reward field. people should only do it seriously if they can't live happily doing anything else.

[Anonymous No.5010902]

>>5010900
I could live happily being a spoiled nobleman groping the servants and drinking my estate away, but alas

[Anonymous No.5010928]

>>5010902
you know what I meant.

[Anonymous No.5010929]

>>5010771
games are not as enjoyable in the long run tho.

[Anonymous No.5010935]

>>5010395
yes
I don't know what the future holds for me since I'm still in education but I fear it often

[Anonymous No.5010938]

>>5010928
I could also live happily being a very esteemed gigolo for extremely hot women who would lavish me with gifts for the pleasure of my member
I have more, would you like to hear?
Now that I think about it, it is quite unfortunate that I have fallen to artistry to derive happiness from

[Anonymous No.5010939]

>>5010739
>it was so fucking boring
To each there own. For general illustration, I think the big difference between those who are satisfied and thriving and those who are struggling, is whether or not they're in command of their illustration style when working on client projects. I don't just draw whatever needs drawing in whatever style the client wants. I work exclusively in my style that I developed and am passionate about, so working on any project is fulfilling regardless of who it's for.

>>5010808
I stopped posting my work on /ic/ ages ago, not that it would even help, because:
> I wonder what skills it requires to earn this much.
Is simply the wrong attitude to have when it comes to making a living with your work. There are no 'levels' in art/design. It's all subjective. You cannot just pass skill level ____ and automatically be rewarded with opportunities and money. You can make 'worse' work than a good artist yet still make far more money than them. Your entrepreneurial skills are just as important as your art skills (if not more important).

[Anonymous No.5011111]

>>5010548
>maybe YOU can’t cut it, but plenty artists can and the market is clearly there
That's counterintuitive to economic theory. A few artists make it big, the rest get scraps.

[Anonymous No.5011123]

>>5011111
I never said anything about the ratio therein.
The discussion was about making a distinction between an “era where artists could make it big or make large amounts of money on their work and name alone” and the present time where “that space is wholly owned by large corporations”. There was never in history a time where most artists made it big, nor a time when being an artists was not by and large a poor profession. Not sure what you’re trying to say there.

[Anonymous No.5011124]

>>5010659
>Thousands of new images are created everyday
Let me correct you, millions everyday

[Anonymous No.5011128]

>>5011111
This, social media artists are closer to youtuber/streamers situation, few make it big, a good amount make it okay-ish, but most are on the 0-300 viewers, the difference is getting 300 viewers per art as an artist won't feed you as much as if you were a streamer doing the same for 8h everyday.
Commercial art is safer and easier to get into than trying to get big with your art

[Anonymous No.5011141]

>>5010674
>I wish I had some kind of monk
That's going to be hard since monasteries are shutting down left and right. Technology devalued art and devalued religion as well. Technology will fuck us all. Human quality of life drastically decreased with the advent of the rifle. People could probably try to argue the good of its invention, defense of property and it's use for hunting, but instead we used it to kill hundreds of millions of "other" people throughout history. Technology is the same. Technology will further detract from the human experience, it's benefits do not outweigh it's social cost. Mark my words youngins :3

[Anonymous No.5011179]

>>5011123
>a time when being an artists was not by and large a poor profession
Artists in the past weren't always largely poor relative to the poor people of their time, specially considering at one point they even had part on the crafts guilds

[Anonymous No.5011201]

>>5010395
If what you're doing is unique enough, you will stand out even among billions

[Anonymous No.5011206]

>>5011179
They aren’t “largely poor relative to the poor people of their time” now, either.
42.87% of USA earns less than 25k.
You’re just imagining the wealth distribution of the past. What data do you have on failed artists of the Renaissance?

[Paul Thorsen No.5011211]

>>5010395
Ok I tried to make a thread before but thats breaking the rules, i'll post some art in the shilling thread. I'm a musical polymath, I treat art as a very quick release when I can't do science or music anymore due to exhaustion. The great thing about this is that a high tide rises all ships or whatever that saying is.

As a polymath that means with recognition there will be added interest in art in general. So all I have to say is keep producing art, your day will come.

welcome to the australian renaissance.

[Anonymous No.5011213]

>>5010609
Kek I literally did the opposite parkour
got out of school with the usual industry portfolio for I think 4 years or maybe only 3
However my online presence did grow at the same time and I ended up being able to sustain myself only drawing what I like instead of drawing for people
Which is pretty good for me since it fits my mentality that if you're chasing money you might as well just be a wagecuck or businessman
But maybe I have this paradigm only because I never struggled once with money in my whole life thus money feels irrelevant and useless, I don't even spend 15% of what I make so take this post with a grain of salt

[Anonymous No.5011240]

>>5011206
Painting for Profit: The Economic Lives of Seventeenth-Century Italian Painters is all I could find for Renaissance, but I was talking about the Medieval when artists were mostly all nameless and had to work under their guild

[Anonymous No.5011250]

>>5011240
I assumed you meant the renaissance with guild bit, since it’s quite disingenuous to say artists weren’t poor when the serfs had no capacity to become artists precisely because they were poor.
That’s like me making the argument that artists are very well off because of the millions of africans, south americans and indians being too busy trying not to die to paint.

[Anonymous No.5011259]

>>5011250
Well. there wasn't much for the average man to differentiate from the poor at the time, having food and a roof were enough to put you above the poor. And I'm never said artists were very well off, but poor they were not contrary to what some anon said

[Anonymous No.5011272]

>>5010609

Based job anon! Happy for you.

[Anonymous No.5011274]

>>5010395
>Anyone else really depressed thinking about all the artists doing their best and making art, even though for 99% of them will never been seen and nobody will ever care?
i'm depressed knowing that i wont be as good as them
what do i care if they're famous or not, they have skills i want

[Anonymous No.5011279]

>>5011259
compared to whom? compared to the upper class they were definitely poor
compared to merchants, they were poor
who exactly are these non-poor medieval artists? the monks painting frescos?

[Anonymous No.5011283]

>>5011279
compared to the poor, they were not

[Anonymous No.5011296]

>>5011283
ok, prove it
show me the rich monks illuminating manuscripts and painting frescoes and how their wealth compares to “poor people”

[Anonymous No.5011298]

>>5011296
famine

[Anonymous No.5011311]

>>5011298
>artists didn’t suffer famine
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.5011316]

>>5011311
>artists suffered famine
[citation needed]

[Paul Thorsen No.5011317]

artists are always poor, your art only matters once you are dead, as there are now none left. Isn't that fun guys.

[Anonymous No.5011319]

>>5011311
>>5011316
>artists exist
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.5011323]

>>5011316
>>5011311
>artists were always poor throughout history
>artists were well-off in some random time
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.5011328]

>>5010395
the US:
>all art, illustration, animation and comics are controlled by duopolies and money launderers
>the economy is so radically inequal literally no one is able to both work and have a hobby let alone turn a hobby into a profession
>education system is mandatory, teaches literal propaganda, is purposefully crippled to enable population control and is run for profit
>society hammers the idea that the worst you could do is not being productive into everyone's head so hard they'd rather die than not be able to pay taxes
>"millions of artists and nobody cares, how is this possible, it's so sad"

Japan:
>thousands of producers for art, illustration, animation, comics, porn, games, music, all sorts of entertainment, ranging from massive corporations to indie circles existing in harmony around the simple joy of creation
>the most equal economy in the entire world enabling people to do whatever they want and succeed, or at least be able to support themselves
>education system runs clubs and other shit to have children exposed to many different interesting sports and hobbies
>society just wants you to not put your weird shameful shit on public display, it's okay being weird if you don't rub it into people's faces
>"haha anime girl printer go brrrr"

[Anonymous No.5011359]

>>5011141
>Human quality of life drastically decreased with the advent of the rifle
Absolutely the opposite, you moron, read your Orwell and know the difference between a freeing and disempowering technology.
https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/you-and-the-atom-bomb/

> tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons.
>A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.
>The great age of democracy and of national self-determination was the age of the musket and the rifle.

[Anonymous No.5011369]

>>5011359
>longbows
>weapons that need specialised lifelong training to be effective
>democratic
A crossbow is the people’s weapon. A longbow is the ruler’s.

[Anonymous No.5011388]

>>5011328

Why do people have this fantastical idea of what Japan is actually like? Japan is not some paradise.

[Anonymous No.5011394]

>>5011388
because most people outside japan either only see how japan likes to portray themselves or from tourism, few go there for work or to live there

[Anonymous No.5011403]

>>5011369
>A longbow is the ruler’s.
This is pretty incorrect for the time, because while the crossbow went even further once designs improved (they were pretty bad at first), the longbow was still a weapon of the people.

It was cheap to produce and effective at long distance. The longbow made it easier to pierce the armor of mounted knights who were traditionally extraordinarily wealthy and powerful. Training was time-consuming, but not expensive and could and was just fostered by kings within the populace, because people could make reasonably good progress unsupervised

In short, longbowmen were cost-cheap, human expensive -you could pretty easily make peasants longbowmen if you were willing to let them own them, and someone wanted to invest the time and energy to train them. By comparison, nothing is going to make a peasant spontaneously grow a horse and armor.

[Anonymous No.5011407]

>>5011388
It's not but where the US produces Facebook for zoophiles number 2938 because people need to be 'productive' and shit Japan just makes porn animation because it's fun to make and watch.

[Anonymous No.5011411]

>>5010723
>some retard defining what is art
Art is whatever people believe it is and your shitty rant won’t validate your point of it.

[Anonymous No.5011413]

>>5010395
If you’re not making art for yourself you’re ngmi

[Anonymous No.5011427]

>>5011411

Truly a smoothbrain copout.

If so, then why do we have a term for it? What is the point of making a term of it could be anything we describe? The sun is art. The sky is art. Your shit is art.

What kind of pointless term is that? Is art just an adjective to describe things we like?

[Anonymous No.5011440]

>>5011403
But that doesn’t go against what I said. It takes a systematic training of peasantry to make them longbowmen. A peasant cannot just pick up a longbow and “fight the strong”, it doesn’t “give the weak claws” the way a rifle, a crossbow, or a grenade do. Any retard can pick up a gun, point the shooty end towards its oppressor and fire, but a longbow is something that must be both cultivated and allowed by the ruler, which is exactly what the English did, they went out of their way to make even a small portion of the peasantry capable of even drawing a longbow. No nation is going decide towards self determination, pick up longbows and stick it to the man, they’d get slaughtered.
The only difference between a plane and a longbow in their accessibility is that longbows are cheaper and easier to make, once you have one, you’re equally fucked if you haven’t been trained and are physically able to use them effectively.
A gun you technically don’t even need both hands for, let alone years of training.

[Anonymous No.5011447]

what even is this thread anymore

[Anonymous No.5011450]

>>5011427
Why the hell would we argue about the definition of art when it eventually devolve into semantics and feelings? This shit has been discussed by anons years ago over and over again that basically gets everyone nowhere. If you have the braincells to understand that you actually stopped arguing about what the meaning of “art”
It’s like when that other retard arguing over color temperature and not understanding its just a design choice and a guideline and not some fact.
You people won’t get anywhere in art if all you do is argue what it is than doing it

[Anonymous No.5011454]

>>5011450
Here’s a tip,
ART is dictated by what SOCIETY think it is. If people think drawings of naked anime girls is art then to each their own.

[Anonymous No.5011455]

>>5011450
Because it's interesting listening to the excuses people give that prevent them from doing what they want.

[Anonymous No.5011459]

>>5011454
most of those are pornographic material, pinups and illustration at best, few get the art status

[Anonymous No.5011467]

>>5011440
>It takes a systematic training of peasantry to make them longbowmen
Where I think we disagree is what we mean by systemic.

Yes, systemic in the sense that
>Systems must be in place to support it
such as rulers openly advocating peasants to take up training on their own time prior to wars, and that
>Teaching it benefits from having powerful people who have the time to pass on a skill that takes years to teach

but NOT systemic like
>Rulers must provide vast quantities of economic patronage and support in order them
Because mass-production of these weapons cost a pittance and these weapons were state-of-the-art combat tools

This is a big deal in terms of leveling the playing field in favor of the people, because while yeah, short term, you're right that big monarchs and local lords were still going to be the nucleus of power and longbows aren't a great tool for INDIVIDUALS to fight the man, it greatly reduces the economic cost of war for weaker powers and made the stronger powers who held dominion reasonably fear weaker ones.

Compare the old process of training up a knight,
>you must be able to turn a peasant into a knight, which needs long term training and apprenticeships starting when people are children until they are fully grown that someone must fully pay for
>a large quantity of difficult to transport and expensive metals, and people with decades of expertise to forge that armor into a useful shell of armor
>significant quantities of land solely dedicated to raising, breeding, and training war animals, and people with decades of experience to raise and train these animals,
>Significant logistics capabilities to keep a knight and all his stuff moving, his animals fed, and coordinated in the battlefield
>The risk that you're having something you've invested all that time into sent into close quarters combat

Longbowmen by comparison just need some training time and are much less likely to die against an opponent not fielding their own.

[Anonymous No.5011472]

Thread is super derailed, how did this happen?

[Anonymous No.5011476]

>>5011472
This is /ic/ what did you expect?

[Anonymous No.5011489]

>>5011472
Where do you think you are?

[Anonymous No.5011499]

>>5010433

[Anonymous No.5011516]

>>5011489
Kek I'm fucking dead

[Anonymous No.5011518]

>>5011467
>Longbowmen by comparison
Right, but the comparison was made to rifles and grenades, not knights in armor. A hand grenade or a rifle are not simple to make, you don’t just pick explosives from a tree, yet they are democratic weapons by their nature, not ease of manufacture.
Ergo, the equivalent would be the crossbow, a weapon that was explicitly outlawed by the fucking pope because it was terrifying that you could give it practically anyone and they could exert force over you regardless of your standing or power bestowed upon you. Meanwhile no one gave a shit about longbows because a longbowmen needed to be produced, the longbow itself was no threat on its own, and it’s quite easy to stop people from training themselves over a period of years if need be.

[Anonymous No.5011520]

>>5011518
also, ignore the grammar mistakes, it’s 3am

[Anonymous No.5011538]

>>5011518
You're not wrong about the crossbow as of about the 14th century, once they started to achieve comparable range, rate of fire (believe it or not, prior to improvements a skilled longbowmen could greatly outpace a crossbow) and power.

BEFORE then, the crossbow wasn't as big a deal as the longbow, because longbowmen could strike back without counterfire.

Pic related for a great example of how even though the longbow is obviously not a rifle or a grenade, OR even a crossbow, the bow was still a democratic weapon.

[Anonymous No.5011540]

>>5011538
also, ignore the lack of picture, it's 3am

[Anonymous No.5011572]

>>5011540
Exactly, the scenario was brought about by the king himself and would be undone in a generation if deemed more trouble than it’s worth to have longbowmen.
The crossbow was a ticket to hell since the 11th century (fun fact, so were rifles), but even then the pope used them against the lombard league.
Face it, there’s nothing democratic about longbows. They require a ruler to suffer them, crossbows do not. A nation can be armed with crossbows and capable of utilising them at any time, while arming people with longbows provides less “claws” than a cat strapped to a broom simply because they cannot use them.
If he had said simply “bow”, he might have had a point, but let’s be honest, he said longbow specifically because he’s English and smelling his own farts, were the longbow such a democratic weapon, it would have been widespread like rifles and grenades. There is a reason crossbows were used throughout the continent and longbows only on one island.
It is not a matter of efficiency or power, longbows demonstrably and objectively do not belong on that list.

[Anonymous No.5011578]

>>5010548
No shit retard. One in a million artists gets lucky and hits a hold mine at the right time, and their success breeds further success due to notoriety. The market CAN NOT support more than a tiny handful of these people.

[Anonymous No.5011582]

>>5011572
>>Exactly, the scenario was brought about by the king himself

Hmmmm
>ruler fucks up,
>gives people too much independence
>revolts spring up to depose the monarchy
>suprised pikachu face
I think I heard that speech before

[Anonymous No.5011584]

>>5010609
Do you actually care about your art work as a creative endeavor, or do you just view it as blue collar work?

[Anonymous No.5011609]

>>5010395
I have a few pics in Danbooru with +-30 ratings I drew about 8-10 years ago, and unlike Devtart or Pixiv I occasionally feel happy and proud looking back at them. That’s all that matters at the end I guess, whether you’re happy with your own chink doodles.

[Anonymous No.5012178]

>>5010395
The fact that your work was uploaded to booru means that at least 1 person cares about your art

[Anonymous No.5012317]

>>5011111

quints of truths.

[Anonymous No.5012322]

>>5010395
My art occasionally gets posted on the chans. Makes me happy people like my art enough to post it.

[Anonymous No.5012360]

>>5010395
Yeah well maybe they should stop drawing exactly the same things everyone else is doing and branch out beyond flavor of the month pinup fanart.

[Anonymous No.5013554]

>>5010433
Bueno

[Anonymous No.5013573]

>>5010433

[Anonymous No.5015073]

>>5010674
...You're almost at the point of self realisation.
I'm being sincere.
I've been making art since I was a kid, and then pursuing it commercially messed with my head.
Do NOT focus on legacy. That may come down the line, but it's the last thing you should be thinking about.
Personal improvement and honing your skill is the most important thing.
I get sad that gelbooru has been used as the example for the first post.
I went through an existential crisis, and had the oversaturation feeling, seeing so many peers selling prints. The thing is, there's always an audience, there's always new people, don't doubt yourself, and be steadfast. Success comes at different times for people and in different ways.
When you give up on the fame, and focus on creating the best art, or simply trying to enrich people's lives, or making a living, that's all that matters.
Sometimes online attention doesn't pair up with commercial success. I have a number of friends who make things work, but have a seemingly small online presence. It depends on who buys into your work.
This can be said for art buyers/ art directors, customers buying original art and prints, etc.
There is hope, just don't focus on the slew of work constantly being vomited out online.
Be honest with yourself and work as hard as you can.

[Anonymous No.5015077]

>>5015073
To add to this...
Ultimately nothing matters. YOU decide what matters.
For me, creating art has always been a part of my life, and I've been lucky to work as a commercial artist for ten years, with the last 4 being a major success when I let go of ego.
I'm content with having a wholesome little life. Thinking on these thoughts, and encouraging those around me, I've managed to help my wife go into working as a fine artist full time, oil painting during lockdown.
Focus on your little world and what matters most to you.
The world is so vast and full of useless information. If you're earnest and produce work that speaks to people, they WILL seek you out.
People will probably dismiss this, and I don't want to forfeit my anoniminity, but it did work for me.
To hell with ego and legacy.

[Anonymous No.5015082]

NGMI threac

[Anonymous No.5015088]

>>5015082
NGMI general
Pic related, me stepping foot in this thread

[Anonymous No.5015104]

>Draw shitty dime a dozen anime girls
>wtf why is my art not noticed

[Anonymous No.5015237]

Think about it like this.
Imagine if there was no internet as we recognize it today. For some reason, we lagged behind in technological growth and have only started to receive consumer desktop computers within the last few years.
The chances of someone besides your mother or whatever friends you have seeing your artwork are practically zero.
You have to be your own motivator and encouragement.
There are no social media backpats.
The only real way you're going to have of making money is actually getting off your ass and trying to find some way into the industry.
Everyone always says "No one looks at my art or so and so's art."
If even a single person glances at a thumbnail for a few seconds before mulling over it, they saw the artwork. 30 years ago, the only person that would've seen would be your father as he beats you mercilessly for drawing a little girl doing that weird shit but then thanks god in the back of his mind because at least he didn't raise a faggot. Well, at least not in the literal sense.

[Anonymous No.5015314]

>>5010433
depressing "tits".

[Anonymous No.5015509]

>>5010395

[Anonymous No.5015915]

I have a twitter account with 21 followers.
Im grateful 21 people follow me because the truth is that Im not very good,it just pisses me off that some of the people that follow me are actually skilled as fuck artists that somehow have less followers than me.
This makes me think luck actually plays a big part in this whole thing.

[Anonymous No.5016277]

>>5010395
It's because it's digital. Uploading it to the void. Do TRAD and get it at an exibit and actually mingle with curaters, artists, and other douche bags

[Anonymous No.5016285]

>>5010421
IS that yours anon? It looks neat

[Anonymous No.5016344]

>>5015237
/thread

[Anonymous No.5016668]

>>5010395
Why do you feel like if no one is watching, it doesn't matter? Being famous is not the main goal

[Anonymous No.5016930]

>>5015073
>>5015077
I'm glad I came back to check the thread anon. I appreciate the reply, this is the kind of thing I needed to hear.
All I can really say is I'm trying man. I don't want success to be my goal. I can see it stifling my work whenever I think about whether other people will like it. I can see its stifling effect in other people's art. I don't want to care what other people will like. I want to make art I like. If those overlap by chance then great.
I just can't keep all my art to myself though, I have an instinct to share it. But that means a constant battle with myself because social media runs on our instinct to seek approval. Or maybe that's just the battle all artists have always faced, fuck if I know.

[Anonymous No.5016977]

>>5015237
>but then thanks god in the back of his mind because at least he didn't raise a faggot. Well, at least not in the literal sense.
Perfect

[Anonymous No.5016998]

>>5010433
that's a male body
>>5011499
>>5013554
>>5013573
come out of the closet faggots

[Anonymous No.5017024]

>>5016998
I'm open about my feelings towards cute men dressing like and doing cute girl things.

Also if it wasn't for the face pic related would be close to the ideal woman. Assuming she is atleast 6'5"

[Anonymous No.5017193]

>>5016998
You sound mad, fattie

[Anonymous No.5018482]

>>5011369
I mean, wasn't every englishmen forced to train longbow every sunday? this seems balance thing out

[Anonymous No.5018637]

>>5017024
He

[Anonymous No.5018661]

>>5010537
this its why we end up with banned artist by request

[Anonymous No.5018792]

>>5010454
>>5010454
Well what about “celebrities” like Hyanna-Natsu, Sasucchi95 and similar shit who have no original art style, are below mediocre Pixiv artist and have a shitload of recognition and filled commission queues? Don’t get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. But I think there’s always demand for this generic anime crap and you’re guaranteed thousands of likes when you achieve a certain skill level.

[Anonymous No.5018813]

>>5015915
You know, your art might have something special to them which they can’t reproduce and admire it. I used to follow artists on way lower skill level because of that, maybe I was “better” but they could do things I couldn’t do and I admired them