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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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4863555 No.4863555 [Reply] [Original]

What do you think is the biggest mistake beginners make that stuns their progress?

>> No.4863557

>>4863555
posting on /beg/

>> No.4863559

>>4863555
Coming here at all

>> No.4863560

>>4863555
skipping fundies

>> No.4863561

Not reading loomis

>> No.4863574

>>4863555
Spending too much time trying to find the right way to draw or the right study materials. Majority of the time a beginner has more knowledge then they do skill.

>> No.4863575

>>4863555
Fall for l**mis

>> No.4863578

>>4863557
Almost everyone who posts in beg mogs me and I've been drawing for almost a year

>> No.4863579

>falling for the proko meme
>falling for the drawabox meme
>falling for the loomis meme
>falling for the fundamentals meme
>falling for perspective
>not using symbols and chicken scratch to draw
if you've done any of this, give up ngmi

>> No.4863580

>>4863574
Knowledge of what specifically?

>> No.4863589

>>4863555
Not having fun

>> No.4863592

>>4863578
pyw

>> No.4863593

Posting a dumb question outside of the /beg/ thread

>> No.4863623

posting in /asg/

>> No.4863681

>>4863557
>>4863559
so true. I would add not knowing why or what you want to draw, but maybe that's just me

>> No.4863711

I think every beginner should work their way through Scott Robertson's two books and become a complete technical perspective master. Then pick up Vilppu and start life drawing.

>> No.4863747

In my experience of trying to teach people, the most frustrating thing is them not drawing because they're waiting for the stars to align.
That's to say, they want the perfect reference for their pose, they need the perfect brush, the perfect drawing program, whatever it may be.

They get so hung up on needing everything to be perfect that by the time they've gotten everything, they're only drawing for an hour because they've already exhausted themselves doing everything else. It's night and day the amount of progress friends have made who don't do this compared to ones that do. Just draw and don't be afraid to make mistakes, because you're going to be making a lot of them for the rest of your career anyways.

>> No.4863776

>>4863555
opening useless threads on /ic/

>> No.4863782

Taking drawing advice from people who cannot draw.

>> No.4863821

Listening to advices like this >>4863711, touching Robertson's autistic books at all

>> No.4863829

>>4863555
not using refs
>>4863557
true

>> No.4863835

>>4863555
Getting tricked into thinking they're better than they are by their first rendering successes, and forever after spending way too much time carefully rendering terrible drawings with no fundamental foundation.

Also spending time looking for "guides", brushes, new books that are beyond their skill level, art supplies, instead of just fucking drawing all the time.

>> No.4863836

>>4863821
Draw me a Lamborghini, anon. Can you do it? Now rotate it from your head.

>> No.4863850

>>4863555
Grinding fundies

>> No.4863860

>>4863555
I read something about how beginner violin players are taught the right posture and technique even if they don't go on to becoming pros because something like habits are the hardest to break later on and so good habits are better and bad habits are even worse. I like to think drawing is the same and that people who come in, already made their biggest mistakes and built bad habits. Basically, you can unironically grow up to be a NGMI.

>> No.4863865

>>4863555
they think drawing and painting is like learning an instrument, but its not, its a fucking shitshow

>> No.4863866

>>4863555
reading too much
not finishing a piece never

>> No.4863869

>>4863836
when is a professional gonna need that?
irl, you'd use a simple 3d model if you want precise results, there are tons at sketchfab

>> No.4863896

>>4863865
But it is like learning an instrument? The fuck you think an instrument is? It doesn't mean musical by default.

>> No.4863898

>>4863555
An inability to get to the core of what a resource is really saying, and then modifying it so it's personally useful to them. An inability to understand and "customize" a teaching. So much talk of who's good and who's bad, is Loomis a meme? But what if I waste my time? But what if I learn the wrong way?
I don't think Loomis ever said his head construction was THE way to construct a head, I think he said the opposite actually in the intro to one of his books. I know for a fact Hampton has far less confidence in his own teachings than his most zealous acolytes do, and he encourages you to modify his constructions to suit your needs. Maybe people just don't read the intro?
If all you want to draw anime girls with dainty little chins, you can still learn from Loomis. But! Instead of a big heroic square chin, what happens if you change it to more of a triangular volume? And maybe that "cutting the sphere" just doesn't make sense to you. So do it another way. Maybe bring elements of Hampton into it, or Vilppu or Bridgman.
You don't have to be so literal in learning. I guess to summarize, thinking too literally about art like it's arithmetic, not able to think laterally, abstractly, or creatively.

>> No.4863901

>grinding
>grinding without a goal
>grinding without fun
>never finishing anything

>>4863865
this lmao

>> No.4863905

Hijacking this thread since relevant. Obviously drawing a lot is important, but to improve, should I be giving my best effort in all areas with as many pieces as I can, or is it enough to focus on one aspect of drawing with each piece? Like, on one drawing focus on doing great shadows, on another, challenging yourself to do more complicated perspective.

>> No.4863912

>>4863898
Is the irony in this that art used to be taught very linearly and was also one of the best periods of art history?

>> No.4863914

>>4863912
Tell me how art used to be taught. Inform me.

>> No.4863918

>>4863905
Sounds more like a question to ask yourself and no one can answer. I also think it's funny you say drawing a lot is important then ask what about to improve. Why is drawing a lot important again?

>> No.4864127

>>4863555
Caring too much of what others think about their work even if it is just stuff for practice, which results in not sketching enough from life.

>> No.4864152

>>4863555
LOOMIS

>> No.4864153

Thinking you can learn how to draw by reading a book, books can definitely be crucial if you're self-taught, but if you don't apply the knowledge inside them by drawing the subjects repeatedly over and over until they "click" and you understand what they actually mean, you'll never get anywhere

>> No.4864445

>>4863555
Avioding fundies because it will "cramp your style". Nigga please, if one week of figure drawings sudddenly erased your ability to draw anime titties you literally werent that good at anime in the first place

>> No.4864494

>>4864445
pretty sure the opposite is always the case, at least on this particular board

>> No.4864545

>>4863579
low quality and unfunny bait
in case you are this retarded please stop using this site

>> No.4864703

>>4863555
Thinking that they are better than they actually are.

>> No.4864819

>>4863555
"muh style"

>> No.4864826

>>4863711
I wouldn't go so far as "master". Competency is good enough. They can work at mastery over time.

>> No.4864833
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4864833

>>4863869
Being a tracefag that's unable to do a basic draftsmanship task is top-tier NGMI

>> No.4864860

>>4863555
If doing digital art, not using custom brush and pressure settings.

>> No.4864862

>>4863555
>What do you think is the biggest mistake beginners make that stuns their progress?

It's 100% practicing things that don't help you improve (at least, this is what I did). Practicing rendering is the big one: if your line work is bad, it will look bad no matter how long you render it, and it's easy to get confused and think your turds just need more polishing.

Best way to get good is to draw from life a lot and not worry about rendering for a long time.

>> No.4864875

>>4863557
>>4863559
I disagree, you can come here if you have some sense of direction and know this guy >>4863579
Is spewing complete bait nonsense

>> No.4864949

>>4864445
To be fair, it's not about being good. It's about being in control. When you do a lot of studying though, your ability gain and ability control go out of whack. Only those who can learn to quickly control their new found powers have a smooth sailing.

>> No.4864998

>>4864833
you're mixing it all
there's probably value in technical, repetitive, mindless tasks like drawing by hand complex geometry, or copying a photo pixel by pixel, or memorizing some piece of machinery in order to draw it without reference, but that kind of shit have ZERO value to make you a better artist

>> No.4865001

>>4863829
this

>> No.4865031

>>4864862
>It's 100% practicing things that don't help you improve
Interesting take.

>> No.4866226

Not actually giving a shit about the drawing process or the journey, just looking for results.

Only caring about the finished product is what onlookers do, that's why they they get suckered into hyper rendering even if its mediocre.

Any finished drawing you make will look like shit in the beginning, you won't get far if the act of drawing isn't intrinsically enjoyable to you.

>> No.4866244
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4866244

Not believing in themselves.
Not thinking that they can do it.

>> No.4866833

>>4863555
Not drawing cylinders
Just draw cylinders
Everything is cylinders...

>> No.4866864

>>4866226
is the opposite: final result is EVERYTHING, how you get there is fucking irrelevant
most people here, including me, got memed into grinding useless practice for 10000 hours, and at the end your final pieces are just as shit

>> No.4866870

>>4866864
If you want to learn on your own (i.e. not from a school / instructor) you take responsibility for your own learning. If you grinded 10,000 hours and didn't improve that's your own problem (you didn't, but if you had).

If you don't have the ability to ask "Why am I learning this, what's the purpose of this exercise?" set a goal, judge your own progress etc. then you need a teacher.

>> No.4866895

>>4866870
>>4866226
>judge your own progress
how would you do that if you don't care for the results?
how the fuck do i know if i'm improving if i only care about the "journey"?
is the real making it the friends we made along the way?

>> No.4866906

>>4866895
Not him, but you do need to know why you are doing what you are doing before you can give yourself an honest assessment of whether it is working or not.
But that's just general life advice, set goals so you can measure progress. Im not much of an art coach though, I have no intentions of pursuing an art career and my only real art goal is to hate fewer of my own paintings as time passes.

>> No.4866918

>>4866906
Not him, but that's irrelevant to the argument. You just cant defend self improvement babble like "is all about the journey" by parroting "just make your own goals lmao"

>> No.4866953

>>4863555
Drawing what they think they see, and not what's actually there. Or, symbol drawing.

Second, around here, is focusing on things like breasts, and eyes, and then lose stamina and interest for the rest of the figure.

Third is patience. Art takes time. But everyone rushes to the fun stuff, or the special effects, without putting enough time and effort in the things underneath.

Fourth would be perfectionism. You have to embrace the mistakes.

>> No.4866966

>>4866895
It's not a black or white thing. You can have goals, AND enjoy the journey too them.

I always keep in mind /ic is full of anons on the spectrum, who need rigid frameworks and a bubble around them to work, who have no control over over-investing in 'the right' things.
Most art students reach that point where it clicks, and they just fall in love with the whole thing. I reached that point in high school. I saw people have that moment in college. But here it's too much energy expended on 'i have to do [thing] perfectly, or I can't be rational". And I don't think there's a way around it. Like a friend of mine who teaches special ed art classes, these threads read like her classroom. One student is eating paint, half of them are in the back masturbating at circles they think are breasts, and the rest are slapping each other and crying because someone drew something they can't.

Try. Try to embrace all of it. Art is a life. If you want to be serious, you dive in. If you hate the journey, you're not going to make it, there will be no magical moment when suddenly you don't hate it anymore. Love it NOW.

>> No.4867267

>>4866966
what a load of bullshit
art is like any other work: sometimes you like it, most of the time you hate it, but it puts the bread on the table at the end of the day
i give you that since you're usually alone, it tends to attract the autist types. just like 4chan

>> No.4867419

>>4867267
Well, if you're pessimistic, sure. If you want to equate art with "a job", I'm sure you'll get far. But not in art.

>> No.4868155

>>4863555
Going for unique style

>> No.4868171
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4868171

>>4863555
not reading the sticky

>> No.4868229

>>4863589
Definitely this.

People here grind mindlessly losing fun drawing. Then they burn out, they stop making progress, and don't even know why they wanted to draw in the first place.

And people do this because they approach drawing like science, thinking that doing abstract exercises or reading a lot of books could help, but in reality, drawing doesn't work like that.

Knowledge helps, but getting better requires training the eyes and the imagination, and you do this trying to draw what you want to draw. You don't get better at drawing concept art, character design, or comics obsessing over perspective or anatomy, you get better drawing concept art, character design, or comics. Again, knowledge helps, but only if you apply it to real projects.

>> No.4868381
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4868381

>>4863747
this one
I still do this desu
this is a big one

>> No.4868389

>>4868229
>And people do this because they approach drawing like science, thinking that doing abstract exercises or reading a lot of books could help, but in reality, drawing doesn't work like that.


But that's exactly what a scientific approach isnt. Reading a lot of books without even having the capacity to figure out stuff by yourself is useless. These kids have to start using their head, they can't feed the knowledge to themselves by books. One can only benefit from a book if they have a mileage of thinking, self conduction...
People think they can passively learn to draw and they will magically know how to draw the right thing in the right.
Idk what I wanted to say

If you have your shit together ,that will show on your art, or at least your learning process, it will surely improve faster

>> No.4868433

There's more things to list than possible, but I'll focus on two (one /ic/ related) things that don't get enough, or any at all attention.

1) The new sticky is awful, and just as useless as the last one. It doesn't give people a direction to follow, it's just "here read these books" with no further guidance, no FAQs, nothing. Just fuck your shit up.

And then it further fragments by discussing off topic shit like different mediums and all the other advanced books.

People can't be taught this way. They aren't stupid for not being able to self-educate, either. It's a bad source for teaching drawing, period.

Pick one - the sticky can either be a wikipedia of art instruction, or an intro to drawing. It can't be both. And if it wants to be the latter, it needs to be streamlined.

2) /beg/, /dad/ an whatnot all have one fault in common - lack of observation skills from lack of drawing things in front of them. Never mind value and color. It's the angles and proportions being off completely. I don't care if certain lines make the whole thing look like a cartoon, at least get the lines to be somewhat close to what is in front of you or from the ref you're doing.

Lighting? Color? Anatomy? Construction? Perspective? Composition? these are advanced topics if you can't even draw a rough outline block of what is in front of you and get the angles of things right.

I agree with anons talking about mindless drawing but that's a post-/beg/ topic that needs it's own section to be addressed, how to practice to keep enthusiasm and freshness of the whole thing to the end until you're mentally exhausted but productive, and then do it again the next day.

>> No.4868438

>>4868433
cont'd just to add: /dad/ is autistic and needs to be shut down or quarantined to some corner that nobody knows about it. It's an embarrassment to the board to have people not get out of /beg/ stage for literally years, still drawing chickenscratch shit.

It's great that you like it and you find it fun, just do that shit elsewhere. /beg/'s don't need to see terrible drawings.

>> No.4868636

>>4868433
>it's just "here read these books" with no further guidance
it lays out a sane progression from 'can't operate a pencil' to intro fundie books to robertson and solid figure drawing teachers.
the books contain the guidance, you lunatic.

>> No.4868645

>>4863559
This, If you are smart enough please do yourself a favor, download all the courses and books from here and leave this shithole before you become another dunning crab.

>> No.4868671

>>4868636
>robertson
dropped. are you gonna recommend me betty edwards too?

>> No.4868828

>>4868671
honestly i'ld recommend ching design drawing because it covers both the 'can't into drawing' exercises of edwards as well as the drafting/perspective of HtD, and because i like his sketching style.
the specific book recommendations don't really matter though, they're roughly interchangeable. the value is in having an idea of the Type of book to look for when you're sorting through the thousands of books you can download from here if you're following advice like >>4868645 this anon's.

>> No.4869940

>>4868433
is there an old sticky anywhere?

>> No.4869949

>>4868828
Not that guy, you know what's funny? I just by chance happened to pick up that book at a goodwill and was just now searching through the archive to find mentions of it, of which there's only 6 mentions going all the way back to 2014, including yours. I dont browse /ic/ anymore, I just found this post in the archive lol good timing
And yeah just from what I've read so far, would definitely recommend.

>> No.4871070

>>4869949
there's a lot of books like that that are at least as good as what gets recommended, but for whatever reason aren't on /ic/'s radar.
people seem to spend way too much time on books/lectures and not enough time drawing though, so raising awareness of them probably wouldn't help out.

>> No.4871074

>>4869940
https://hubpages.com/art/how-to-draw-learn

>>4871070
Nailed it. >>4870162 is turning into that already.

I know more stickies isn't the answer but I'm considering taking the old and new sticky and merging them into something that's quarter of the size and actually gets people drawing and not obsessing over this and that book, video, approach, whatever.

>> No.4871115

>>4871070
They aren't on /ic/ radar because there aren't free scans of it, or they aren't books made by some artist/influencer that promote himself on social media.

>> No.4871123

>>4871070
Which books are you referring to?

>> No.4871180

>>4871123
t. hoarder