/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4811688]

Talent is only one half of the artist. The other half is the ability to sit down and draw for hours on end. I see many examples of talent-less people drawing for hours and churning out thousands of crappy works, and on the other hand I see those with pure raw talent who cannot sit still and draw for more than 30 seconds. How do we square this circle?

[Anonymous No.4811690]

>talent-less people will draw for hours and churn out thousands of crappy works
Wrong. They just don't have the right teacher.

[Anonymous No.4811705]

>>4811688
Just be consistent in your learning. I dont believe in talent, because a lot of the people we think are talented, have actually done a lot of practice behind closed doors. You dont see what these people do on a regular basis, or the amount of failures it took before making that masterpiece that has 100k likes. For example, kim jung gi is regarded as talented along with leonardo da Vinci. Both of them arent talented, just very consistent and obsessive when you hear about their backgrounds. Both always drawing since a young age, and observing and drawing everything they could get their hands on. Not just drawing mindlessly, but making a conscious effort to study nature and objects around them. Even if you believe in talent, you cannot deny that effort and hard work is required. There are too many improvemnt threads on this site, and previously conceptart dot org, showing it is possible to go from zero to hero. Neglect talent if you believe in it because you're already here and you cant edit the genes you have. It's possible to make it but it's hard work, and blaming all your problems on talent is just a scapegoat to justify you giving up. Dont fall for the talent meme. When things get tough, you're just gonna use talent as an excuse as to why you cant do it. To protect your ego, you blame some the lack of some abstract thing out of your control. If its out of your control, you dont feel so bad for giving up. Im very familiar with the mental gymnastics. I used to do it.

[Anonymous No.4811741]

>>4811688
You seen what you want to see because you're only interested in confirming your stupid ass bias about art or some other gay shit. You've never bother to talk to a talented artist to learn about how much they've done to get to where they are, you haven't guage on the scope of how much practice to perfect their work, you don't know what resources they used and you for damn haven't realized why artist are failing to become artists in the first place. You're a nothing but a silly bitch making excuses for your lazy ass, smooth as rubber brained, non research doing, complacent with being hard stuck as low tier/beg/, muh style coping, whiny faggots and you're never, ever going to make it. Get fucked.

[Anonymous No.4811762]

>>4811688
people who can't study need better teachers or better considerations
people who can't make quality but are able to study need better lives

[Anonymous No.4811824]

What the fuck do I do if Im missing the talent half?

[Anonymous No.4811893]

>>4811824
See >>4811705
Noone here needs talent
When Anons try their best to explain what the difference is between someone with talent and someone that doesnt have it, it is that the talented will reach the goal quicker than the talentless. There is no study on this, just a baseless assumption. Again, you do not watch an artist 24/7 of their journey. Heck, theres people that are married for 30+ years and still dont know everything about their partner. The only thing that will 100% help you reach your goal faster is to research good study habits based on research and apply it to your art studies. Again talent is abstract and cannot be measured. You're better off assuming it doesnt exist. It's more satisfying to reach a goal due to your own hard work and effort despite the intense difficulty, than to reach a goal with no effort because muh genes.

That's why so many people like Dark souls.

[Anonymous No.4811945]

>>4811893
I apply a bunch of "good study habits" such as spaced repetition, memory drawing, deconstruction and "studies" and I still haven't made any improvement whatsoever this year despite practicing daily. What the fuck can I do at this point?

[Anonymous No.4811977]

>>4811893
I hate you pseudo-scientific retards.
>every single human activity has genetic factors that determine how fast and to what extent you can master it
>everything from purely cerebral sciences to athletics has an inherent genetic potential you can simply never overcome
>art is a psycho-physical activity, needing both the mental capacity to process abstract concepts and the physical ability to lay down appropriate marks
>hurrrrrr there’s no inherent potential in art #weareallequal

[Anonymous No.4812006]

>>4811977
>...an inherent genetic potential you can simply never overcome

So what's the alternative? I should adopt the belief that I cant do x because i dont have the mental capacity for it? How are you even going to gauge that? When you hit a roadblock? As every pro knows, you're going to hit numerous roadblocks where it seems like you're not improving, and it can last for weeks or even months. Get the average anon here to prescribe to your thought process and when they are in that stump, they'll look at their art rivals and how much they're improving and say "well, golly gee, I guess I've reached my limit".

Every single time this kind of subject is discussed, people like you always bring up the outliers of the population like the mentally handicapped or the physically handicapped. Why would anyone here be thinking of those extreme situations? This is for the average anon that has a functioning brain and can move their hands well enough to type on 4chan dot org.
Let me know when you've reached your ceiling and given up if you haven't already. You're coping with your failure and trying to convince others, so you can convince yourself you made the right choice, but I wont give you the satisfaction. I have to make this assumption because I never hear pros peddling your pov, only anons that are trying to give a reason why they have no choice but to give up.

> Its not my fault that I'm giving up, I'm motivated, disciplined, a hard worker, and willing, but it's my genes man! Ugh, if only I had some good genes..then I could do it! That's the only reason! ..The only one!

[Anonymous No.4812025]

>>4811945
Dude I have no idea of what you need to change. I'd have to observe you and how you normally operate when you sit down to draw. It's very complex in that it could be any one of these and even more that I forgot to include.
>time spent studying, 30 minutes a day or a couple hours a day?
> are you binge watching tutorials or actually practicing
> are you practicing fundamentals or are you copying someone's style
> are you learning from credible resources or learning from bad teachers
> are hoarding books or reference from sirmtes like pinterest instead of drawing
> are you using the 80 20 rule
20% of your time learning theory in books/vids
80% of your time applying theory with art
> are you copying an objects silhouette shape or constructing it in 3d space
> are you using shortcuts to hide your bad fundies
> are you drawing the same things over and over and staying in your comfort zone
> are you looking at your favorite artists to see how they tackle something you're struggling with
> are you copying without understanding
> are you trying to do everything from imagination without ever consulting reference
> are you reviewing your work and writing down your problem areas so you know what you will be studying next?
> are you sitting down to draw but actually procrastinating most of the time on social media or youtube?
>Are you getting "inspiration" from playing video games and movies instead of drawing?
>Are you improving but you're not aware you're improving

Post something you drew/painted exactly a year ago and post something you did recently. It can be something you never posted online so people dont know you come here

[Anonymous No.4812077]

>>4812006
>hurr if I can’t quantify something I should vehemently insist it doesn’t exist because I’m fucking retarded
I don’t give a shit about your philosophy, just stop spouting retarded bullshit to other people and implying science supports your hippy bullshit.
No, not everyone can achieve a certain level in art, just they can’t in LITERALLY EVERY OTHER FIELD.
No, I don’t give a shit how you cope with the fact.

[Anonymous No.4812082]

>>4811945
p all yw

[Anonymous No.4812094]

I am tired of your inability to learn OP.
We live in the information age. You have untold access to countless resources that can improve your artwork. Stop bitching on /ic/ and actually learn something and draw.

[Anonymous No.4812104]

>>4811688
every other day one of these and 0 work posted to show how much you draw
your words have no weight in here beg

[Anonymous No.4812117]

>>4812077
Anon, just give up because that's where your road leads to. Just draw for fun because you literally cannot hope to become a master if you keep pushing that so strongly. You're deluded if you honestly believe you wont say the same thing I said in the green text I posted earlier. You're even doing it right now.

I dont know why you're talking about other fields, we are talking about art, and the average person interested in art. The reason why so many people dont reach the level of master is because they give up, or their study methods are complete shit.
> No, I don’t give a shit how you cope with the fact.
> stop spouting retarded bullshit to other people and implying science supports your hippy bullshit

[Anonymous No.4812175]

>>4812077
My dude genetics in other areas regard the extremes. The difference between a good body and Mr. Olympia is genetics. Doesn't mean you can't be shredded and having a nice body. You can run very good amateurly but you'll never be in the Olympics. Sure you might never be DaVinci but you can be at least 70% of it. This whole genetics bullshit has nothing to do with you not being able to draw at least at a level where you can get low level commissions. Or you can blame your inability to actually try and git good to "GeNeTIcS"

[Anonymous No.4812176]

>>4812117
The entire point is that no matter how hard you try to hand wave it away, that limit applies to you, retard.
You are not somehow going to improve less because you acknowledge you are most likely not built to be in the top of any given field, what is this magical thinking retardation?
>hurr just give up football since you believe you won’t be another ronaldo lol just ignore genetic predisposition lol you can be anything if you believe in yourself
Again, I don’t give a shit how the simple fact affects you, talent is a very real factor. I don’t give a shit if you strive to be an average deviantart poster or a master, it doesn’t change the fact that not everyone can reach the same level.
Read what I posted again and stop repeating the same retarded shit and putting up strawmen because you can’t cope with reality.
You’re the only faggot bringing up giving up and implying that’s the natural result of talent existing.
We talk about the top 1% precisely because the other 99% exist. People don’t just give up on a field of study and go die because they’re not cut out for it.

[Anonymous No.4812188]

>>4812175
“My dude”, you are not arguing to the contrary of anything I said. It doesn’t matter if you can “gave a nice body and be shredded” if your goal is being Mr. Olympia. Nobody’s telling you you shouldn’t lift, they’re telling you you can’t be Mr. Olympia because you lack the genetics.
Literally everyone “can draw”, not even a fraction of this board can ever reach the level of mullins, Ryan, KJG and all the others they look up to and want to be. Half the board is legitimately of below average intelligence for one and can’t even into perspective and constructing a fucking loomis head months and years into study.
AnD sToP USing tWItter NigGer meMEspeak you stupid faggot

[Anonymous No.4812192]

>>4811688
if you keep thinking you cant make it due to xyz,
you wont make it
you're just a sore loser with a loser mentality

[Anonymous No.4812193]

>>4812025
>>time spent studying, 30 minutes a day or a couple hours a day?
Usually 3 to 4 hours. 30 of those is figure drawing and the rest split between trying to practice a specific fundie and applying it
>> are you binge watching tutorials or actually practicing
No. Actual practice
>> are you practicing fundamentals or are you copying someone's style
Both. I was told to analyze artists I like and try to figure out why I like it
>> are you learning from credible resources or learning from bad teachers
Keys to drawing and Huston mostly these days
>> are hoarding books or reference from sirmtes like pinterest instead of drawing
No. I mostly draw
>> are you using the 80 20 rule
>20% of your time learning theory in books/vids
Its more like 5-95. I can easily get stuck in the same topic for weeks and trying to apply something and failing constantly
>> are you copying an objects silhouette shape or constructing it in 3d space
I used to focus on second but I was told my accuracy was very bad. Keys to drawing told me to use the first
>> are you using shortcuts to hide your bad fundies
Im unable to hide my terrible fundies regardless of long routes or shortcuts
>> are you drawing the same things over and over and staying in your comfort zone
I don't have a comfort zone. I constantly try stuff I really don't know and fail miserably

[Anonymous No.4812212]

>>4812193
>I constantly try stuff I really don't know and fail miserably
as long as you fail upwards... just use a dark lead and a 2mm clutch pencil to study with

>>4812193
>Usually 3 to 4 hours. 30 of those is figure drawing and the rest split between trying to practice a specific fundie and applying it
Sounds interesting can you post an example?

[Anonymous No.4812216]

>>4812193
pyws

[Anonymous No.4812225]

>>4811688
wrong

talent-less people might be drawing for now but eventually they will realize that they are just wasting their time. Some will realize it sooner which is best because they will still have time to switch to other endeavors, some will try to persevere for nothing and it will took 5 to 10 years before they realize they're wasting their time.

>Myth: Many talented people does not work hard.

Most hardworking people are actually talented (save for the miserable few that I mentioned above). Best inspiration comes from superiority over your competitors.

[Anonymous No.4812243]

>>4812225
Wtf is talent. How do you define talent?

[Anonymous No.4812251]

>>4812025
>> are you looking at your favorite artists to see how they tackle something you're struggling with
Yes. But it usually goes over my head most of the time
>>are you copying without understanding
Half the time. I have a hard time understanding most things lately
>> are you trying to do everything from imagination without ever consulting reference
If anything Im unable to draw without reference these days
>> are you reviewing your work and writing down your problem areas so you know what you will be studying next?
Yes
>> are you sitting down to draw but actually procrastinating most of the time on social media or youtube?
Not really. I usually sit down for 1 hour bursts with tea breaks inbetween
>>Are you getting "inspiration" from playing video games and movies instead of drawing?
No. I dont watch movies or play videogames
>>Are you improving but you're not aware you're improving
Not really. If anything I got worse on a lot of areas and everytime I practice 1 fundie I forget the previous one apparently.
Its no secret I post here and its no secret Im unable to improve either. These are roughly 1 year apart.

[Anonymous No.4812265]

>>4812251
if you keep drawing the same generic person standing only, don't expect to magically learn how to draw something different if you never tried something new

[Anonymous No.4812276]

>>4812265
I picked something similar as to show there hasn't been any improvement. I try different poses all the time but 95% of those are terrible failures.

[Anonymous No.4812290]

>>4812276
are you using those 3d dolls with generic muscles on top of them, if so don't
also your feet is awful
and this is an anatomical study, what were you expecting? an epic scene come out from it?

[Anonymous No.4812293]

>>4812243
A set of inherent, possibly immutable qualities directly pertaining to the task in question.
Intelligence, motor functions, abstract thinking, observational skills, spatial awareness, visualisation, creative thinking, etc.
These not only determine how quickly and to what extent you can process information, but they can make it seem you’re “naturally good” at drawing without any effort or training. For instance, being more observant and having better hand-eye coordination and spatial awareness might make you seem like you “already know how to draw” without any practice, but in reality you just spent more or less your entire aware life observing and passively processing information, resulting you internally understanding the world can be simplified to 3d forms, and your innate predisposition towards easier processing of 3d space allows you to rotate and divide such mental concepts of 3d forms, leading to an internal, passivised sort of construction, and your fine motor control and abstract thinking allowing you to translate that into marks on paper efficiently.
Obviously you will not be as good as someone who put conscious effort and thought into practice over many years, but it does put you well ahead of someone who needs absorb external concepts of construction, perspective, etc. before getting to the point where you are.
Then you have intelligence and ability to learn affecting your further progress, etc.
There’s no magical “art gene”, but there is a set of innate characteristics affecting your ability to perform a certain task, analyse certain kinds of information, apply such information in new, unfamiliar context, etc.
You won’t find any definition because our understanding of mental processes and intelligence in general is loose at best, there are multiple approaches to creativity alone and no consensus on its relation to intelligence. Can you be creative, but dumb? Is creativity the expression of intelligence or the opposite?

[Anonymous No.4812296]

>>4812290
Understand a pose better for something I wanted to attempt as I couldn't find a ref online for what I had in mind
>feet is awful
Everything is awful

[Anonymous No.4812300]

>>4812293
>Intelligence, motor functions, abstract thinking, observational skills, spatial awareness, visualisation, creative thinking, etc.
these are trainable retard
>but they can make it seem you’re “naturally good” at drawing without any effort or training
only people with proficiency will look like that, and they will have thousands of hours put into honing their skills
being creative is being able to put 2 or more things together to make something new, but first you need to get those things in your monkey brain

[Anonymous No.4812306]

>>4812296
Yes,it is, stay beg

[Anonymous No.4812307]

>>4812300
>these are trainable
Trainable to what extent, retard?
Go ahead and take an 80 IQ retard and train him into a genius, you’ll make all sorts of money.

[Anonymous No.4812313]

>>4812176
You clearly give a shit
and I've learned that your favorite word is retard.

Have you talked to anyone who wanted to be an artist but gave up? They will say something along the lines of "I'm not cut out to be an artist" as they look away. Or ask anyone to draw something for you. The most likely response is "I cant draw". When I draw outside, people pass by and a majority of them say I am talented, I was given a gift by God, and say they wish they could do that.

When you use the word talent, it gives the belief that "wow, that person is innately good at x. I can never get to that level because I dont have that innate gift." It leads to a fixed mindset, where you believe people who are good at x were always good at x.

When you tell people that talent is the defining factor to their success, what do you think happens when they fail? They deem themselves untalented and wont even try anymore, unaware that pros were in the same place they were a long time ago.

My point isnt centered around being the absolute best, it is about improving. And if you believe that everyone has a limit and you keep practicing and see no improvement for a month, you will see that as the highest you will ever go. Why would anyone keep practicing if they think they maxed out in art? They will either stop or keep drawing within their comfort zone and stay at that level forever. What do you think is the result of pushing talent so hard? Do you really think you are benefiting others here by telling them they cannot hope to improve past a certain point that is unknown to them? Just waddle around in the dark and if you hit a boundary, STOP!

[Anonymous No.4812317]

>>4812300
>trainable
If you could just train your mental faculties to whatever level regardless of your innate level, we wouldn’t have such a massive problem procuring specialists for every single field that exists.
That’s like saying you’re Test levels are “trainable” because physical activity and sun can provide a marginal increase for as long as the habit is maintained, it doesn’t mean you can become Eddie Hall if you just work on it.

[Anonymous No.4812318]

>>4812307
You fucking idiot how many times do we have to say we are talking about the average person, not extremes

[Anonymous No.4812319]

>>4812317
being unable to be the top 0,0001% of your field doesn't mean those things you said can't be trained and improved

[Anonymous No.4812322]

>>4812318
The question is whether talent exists, if it exists it exists for everyone. Move those goal posts up your ass while you’re at it, faggot.

[Anonymous No.4812323]

>>4812307
monkey can be trained why humans couldn't? and why you need to be a genius to be able to train and get good at something?

[Anonymous No.4812337]

>>4812322
the question is whether talent is something stopping you from getting better at something when you're an utter beg garbage

[Anonymous No.4812338]

>>4812322
Everyone is talented. We are all special snowflakes. Case closed, go home everybody. Little Jimmy may have the IQ of a peanut but he has been given the god-given talent of having a unique perspective on life.

[Anonymous No.4812342]

>>4812323
>get good
“Good” doesn’t mean anything. The average /beg/ is good for the general population.
You retards covering your ears going LALALALALALALA are the only ones implying talent is a condition to doing something. It’s not. It’s a condition to you reaching SOME level. If that level is beyond what you’re happy with, great, it doesn’t change the statement.

>>4812338
>reading comprehension
No shit you don’t want to believe your stupidity poses a limit on your perspective.

[Anonymous No.4812344]

>>4812342
>get gud

[Anonymous No.4812354]

>>4812342
>The average /beg/ is good for the general population.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.4812361]

>>4812354
I haven’t seen /beg/ in years, but normalfags will genuinely admire you for shit-tier scribbles

[Anonymous No.4812367]

>>4812293

>Intelligence, motor functions, abstract thinking, observational skills, spatial awareness, visualisation, creative thinking, etc

But all of those things are trainable and easily affected by your environment. And having a boost in the early age will determine how "talented" you get by how much you use those skills .In a sense you have to happen upon the starting knowledge aka how to see things as they are how to draw passably good then it's a matter of practice and experimentation.

I subscribe more to the idea that some people happen to grow in an environment that allowed them to develop how to see as an artist , how to translate the 3d into 2d than some inherent genetic predesposition towards it. If it was genes you'd see artistic parents having defacto artistic kids without any outside interference and non artistic parents not having any talented kids of their own. Does it require intelligence?Absolutely but again science is not settled on wether intelligence is genetic or acquired.

Either way to feel restricted by your genes means you have achieved your maximum genetic capacity and are unable to progress further, something that I don't believe any person here has come even close so for the moment it's just people finding excuses for their own slow progress. Same with those fat people that say that they can't get thin because their body is endomorph.

[Anonymous No.4812369]

>>4812361
the general population can get at their level in less than one week with drawing with the right side of the brain, beg IS the general population

[Anonymous No.4812375]

>>4811688
Yeah right

[Anonymous No.4812379]

>>4812375
what is this?

[Anonymous No.4812384]

>>4811824
Talent = Intuition + Dedication
Literally learn to work smart and work hard

[Anonymous No.4812396]

>>4812384
So what happens if I don't have intuition? How do I acquire intuition?

[Anonymous No.4812404]

>>4812396
you compensate with more dedication and educate yourself on the thing that you're lacking. Intuition is a product of mastery.

[Anonymous No.4812405]

>>4812276
Okay anon from >>4812025
so looking at this, I have to say I am not really convinced of the form. What I suggest is looking at a 3d scan of a real person and draw a pose from multiple perspectives, just focusing on the simple forms of the rib cage, pelvis, head, and appendages. Vilppu is really great for his breakdown of the figure into simple geometric shapes. You can search for scans of statues on sketchfab. I sense youre falling short in dynamicness and foreshortening.

Not to mention other things like values, color, perspective, anatomy, and mixing them

I see you recognize the pattern of the quadriceps, but can you draw the upper leg from any perspective? Can you render them using values? What if the light source is above? Below? To the side? Two light sources from different directions, but they are overlapping in one small region? For stuff like this, I recommend anatomy360, theres some of them on cgpeers and gfxpeers. Or maybe get your hands on some 3d scans of different poses and drag them in blender and set up different lighting scenarios.

Set up the scene, observe it, hide it, paint what you remember, ask yourself "what's bugging me about this?", open back up the scene, compare and note what you messed up in, do it again and hide the reference and your previous attempt, and so on.

Can you light a scene and put your characters in it, affected by the light? Can you do it in color? Can you design a harmonizing palette? See marco bucci youtube vids for a very insightful process.

Are you able to compose a scene to tell a story? How can you use value to show who is the most important figure in the scene. How can you use color to show what is not important? How can you use shape to convey a mood?

Can you make a draw a window in perspective and draw another at -half its width- away on a receding plane? How does the rib cage & pelvis overlap in different views. Can you break down kim jung gi's art into basic 3d geometric shapes in perspective?

[Anonymous No.4812407]

>>4812396
intuition is a fancy word for coincidence

[Anonymous No.4812414]

>>4812396
intuition = ligameme + the spark

[Anonymous No.4812422]

>>4812379
11 year progress

[Anonymous No.4812430]

>>4812422
how many studies inbetween? 2 daryins in the span of 11 years doesn't tell any of the work someone puts in between

[Anonymous No.4812436]

>>4812405
My knowledge of color and rendering is non existent. My perspective is poor as well. Is not that I haven't practiced it. I just fail to understand it. I already struggle with form so everything is an ever crumbling castle of cards. In short I'm unable to get a solidified understanding of any fundamental.

[Anonymous No.4812438]

>>4812436
you're brainlet and need someone to spoon feed you

[Anonymous No.4812450]

>>4812436
just get 1 on 1 teaching then

[Anonymous No.4812457]

Why do we have these threads every other day and the OP never learns

[Anonymous No.4812463]

>>4812436
Get your hand on Krenz tutorial on rotating cubes.
That's where books come in. Pick up one of the books on perspective, usually in the art book threads, like how to draw by scott Robertson. Or gwen white's book, or framed perspective volume 1 and 2. Just pick one and make sure your read it and not just skim and look at pictures. Remember the 80 20 rule. 20% of your time should be spent on learning theories from the book, and 80% of your time should be spent practicing those theories and experimenting. Books and vids are useful, just dont hoard a hard drive full of them. Just get one perspective book and use that. Get through it piece by piece. Just reading it wont help and just drawing mindlessly wont help either. 80 20, both the book and drawing are needed.

For color, again start with marco bucci on youtube. His videos on color are the best of the best.

If you have gfxpeers, get the schoolism pack, and watch nathan fowkes' designing with color and light. Do the assignments as if you were in the class. Watch a lecture, and for the whole week, just focus on practicing what you learned from that lecture when you study color. If there are feedback vids, start the video, and ask yourself what would you change about this. Then play the video and notice what you missed and what you got right. Again same thing with the books, dont start 5 courses at the same time, just one and focus on that one.

Fundamentals are key, and if your fundies are lacking, you will be restricted in what you're able to do.

If it's hard, then that's a good thing. It means you're doing something challenging. Over time, your brain will adapt and it will get easier. That's when you need to push harder, because that's the only way to improve, always being on the edge of your comfort zone.

You can get those fundies, it just requires you to stick through it. If it's hard to understand, take it one page at a time and make use of those diagrams to understand what's really going on.

[Anonymous No.4812471]

>>4812457
Its 50/50 guaranteed (You)s and people want to find every excuse in the book to justify why they suck ass at art, so they can quit without a guilty conscience.

[Anonymous No.4812472]

>>4812396
It's surprisingly a counterintuitive answer, you have to set your mind as a blank slate free of any attitude or emotion. The thoughts in the back of your mind about improvement and achievement is an emotion taking up space. The more envious you are of others' talent, the bigger it will be. You need to drown it out in whatever way possible. Music works best for me.

After you do that, habitually use your sense on an overview of your work, and ask a question or two about it. Think of it like double checking. I've learned to use certain cues (a bridge or a refrain for example) as a time to refocus and ask some questions. Do it enough times and you'll start to ask and answer those questions unconsciously. This is called muscle memory, a habit, an intuition.

[Anonymous No.4812474]

>>4812471
> Tfw no craig mullins s-rank ultra mega-rare tier genes

[Anonymous No.4812476]

>>4812405
>>4812463
Thank you for giving a decent answer.

[Anonymous No.4812490]

>>4812463
anon you dont give good tips on /ic/ this is illegal i have to arrest you for your crimes

[Anonymous No.4812525]

>>4812490
That's the only thing I do on /ic/
OTL

[Anonymous No.4812636]

>>4812006
>It's not my fault that I'm giving up, I'm motivated, disciplined, trained all my life for this, and willing. But it's really my genes man that are preventing me from being in first! Ugh, if only I had some good genes. Then I could be in first! That's the only reason! The only one!

[Anonymous No.4812873]

>>4811705
Pyw

[Anonymous No.4812913]

>>4812873
Take my advice or dont, but I wont be posting anything. I dont think I said anything controversial

[Anonymous No.4812922]

>>4812913
nooooooo, learning is a myth, there is only talent, thats why there are smart people in school and you can only dream of being one of the smart people, studying doesn't make you smart, its a waste of time and im sure learning art is the same thing, there is nothing i can do to learn how to draw because reading books is the same as studying and not worth your time if youre not talented because only talented people can draw a cube and if i cant draw a cube i wont be able to draw a face, everyone saying to just learn fundies are all talented people that were born knowing how to draw subconsciously and all they needed to do to get that hidden knowledge is read a book or look someone draw

[Anonymous No.4813307]

>>4811705
>because a lot of the people we think are talented, have actually done a lot of practice behind closed doors.

No fucking shit. Nobody ever thought that talented people don't practice. No one said talent was magic that grants you pro skill the second you pick something up. Talent is just an amalgam of personal characteristics that makes development faster or takes it further.

[Anonymous No.4813601]

>>4812405
>>4812463
Thank you I really appreciate the advice. Will follow it through.

[Anonymous No.4813724]

>>4812873

[Anonymous No.4813954]

>>4813307
> Nobody ever thought that talented people don't practice
Is this your first talent thread?

Also try going outside and drawing in a place that gets a lot of people passing by. The comments you get if you're pretty good will surprise you.

And one more, how do you possibly determine if you have talent? The words you use like faster, is relative and cannot be measured. You cant say with talent this would take 1 year and without talent this would take 2 years.

If you use relative terms, you have to constantly compare yourself to others. Others who are not even on the same level as you, not practicing the same subjects, not learning from the same material, not using the same studying methods, and not sharing the same life experiences prior to learning. You cant test for talent when there are so many variables.
Again, i said believe in talent if you want, but dont hinge your success on it because talent is an easy scapegoat for people to blame their failures on. And the moment you blame your genes for their "lack of talent", you will inevitably come to the conclusion that you cannot change your genes so you will always fail and always be behind, so why even bother.

I say neglect talents existence because it does not benefit you in any way whatsoever. If you have it, you'll never know because that's the norm for you, and if you don't have it, then you just grow to resent everyone else around you. No positives in either scenario. Stop pushing talent so hard when it does nothing for you. Talent's only use here is justifying someone giving up when things get hard

[Anonymous No.4814101]

>>4812922
studying doesn’t make you smart, it makes you educated

[Anonymous No.4814123]

>>4814101
Depending on what you study. Studying different topics also teaches how to think and how to learn which can make you smart, however you define smart.

[Anonymous No.4814139]

>>4814123
smart means quick witted, clever
no amount of studying will ever make a dullard smart
feel free to prove your claims

[Anonymous No.4814171]

>>4814139
Smart also means being able to think things through and analyse accurately. Smart is a way to describe people who think things through and it comes mainly from experience. People who learn fast have a lot of experience learning fast, people who have practiced logic are very logical. A smart person is not smart in everything,just smart in the things he has practiced.

[Anonymous No.4814219]

>>4814171
I gave you the actual definition of the word, and you gave me a retarded word salad you pulled out of your ass with no proof of anything you claim is true. Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.4814304]

>>4811688
The only talent talented people have is realizing talent is a sham and their narrow viewpoint clouded their experimental exploration and study. Which requires the talent of not being an autistic moron quitter. Go breathe manually auto breathing is for the talented breathers.

[Anonymous No.4815349]

>Dude wtf thesee people have so much "tallentt" thats why they are better than me.
they started out as shit as everyone else stop crying and study and draw to have fun retard.

[Anonymous No.4815369]

>>4814139
>no amount of studying will ever make a dullard smart
how did you learn to write?

[Anonymous No.4815374]

>>4815369
A better question is how haven’t you learned to read yet?

[Anonymous No.4815375]

>>4815374
>t. dullard

[Anonymous No.4815381]

>>4815375
>t. imbecile
Knowing how to write doesn’t make you smarter, retard.
You literally replied to a post with the definition of the word. Are you legitimately mentally impaired?

[Anonymous No.4815386]

>>4815381
oh, you're getting smarter with your arguments, keep going dullard, I believe in you

[Anonymous No.4815391]

>>4815386
>says the retard incapable of presenting an argument and just insisting his make believe fantasy is real
Now this is cope.

[Anonymous No.4815395]

>>4815391
oh no, you're going back to being a dullard

[Anonymous No.4815402]

great thread guys, nice use of your time

[Anonymous No.4815405]

>oh no, you're going back to being a dullard

[Anonymous No.4815416]

>>4815405
please don't go full dullard, you were doing so great writing down your own thoughts, don't go back to repeating others words, you need to exercise your brain back again

[Anonymous No.4815418]

>please don't go full dullard, you were doing so great writing down your own thoughts, don't go back to repeating others words, you need to exercise your brain back again

[Anonymous No.4815425]

>>4815418
Ah

[Anonymous No.4815431]

>Ah

[Anonymous No.4815435]

>>4815431
ay oh

[Anonymous No.4817386]

>>4812922
Wait, you were being serious? I thought everything you wrote was sarcasm

[Anonymous No.4817422]

>>4817386
thats asg for u

[Anonymous No.4817450]

>>4812422
>2008 to 2017 is 11 years
Jesus christ

[Anonymous No.4819210]

>>4814304
>The only talent talented people have is realizing talent is a sham and their narrow viewpoint clouded their experimental exploration and study.

You can believe in talent and the need for study and practice. Olympic athletes can have identical training but get different results. But someone who won the genetic lottery that never trains will get nowhere.

[Anonymous No.4819224]

>>4813954
>I say neglect talents existence

Why bother? It's an objective truth of biology. It's existence won't stop you when you genuinely enjoy the craft. The entire point of improving is to better make what you want to make not get into dick measuring contests. Yeah life is unfair and some people get the gift while others don't. So stop being such a pussy and keep moving forward to your destination.

[Anonymous No.4819533]

>>4819224
Today I learned that if I dont care about talent I'm a pussy.

Okay.
Let's go through this.
You're telling me that some people are just naturally better than me in art.
And there's nothing I can do about it.
I can improve, but I will never in my life reach their level because I have inferior genes, they have a higher max level than me, and life is unfair.
So when I see someone who is leagues above me and even younger than me, I will acknowledge that they have talent.
I see it as they have been given a "gift" that I may never possess in my lifetime.
I say to myself, "I want to do that too"
But logically speaking, I should perish the thought
Because he is talented and I am not.
I believe that I will never reach him.
I attribute all of his success due to luck.
But at the same time i am supposed to be motivated to practice fundamentals?

> It's existence won't stop you when you genuinely enjoy the craft.
> The entire point of improving is to better make what you want to make
Everyone here on this board has a favorite artist that they want to make art similar to. What in the ever loving fuck are you going to do when you decide your favorite artist is talented?
If my goal is to make art like Kim Jung gi what do you suggest I do?

[Anonymous No.4819547]

Oh boy another talent thread. Mods pls