How to learn art with Anki?

[Anonymous No.4693801]

I want to apply Spaced Repetition to drawing.

Thanks to this little motherfucker, I have religiously studied Japanese almost every single day for the past 4,5 years, after many years of dilly-dallying and not making any progress.

But I still have trouble with drawing, something I picked up over 10 years ago.
Maybe by coming up with clever ways to apply Spaced Repetition to it, I could power through the problem more easily and avoid procrastination.

Does anyone have any experience with it?

[Anonymous No.4693858]

Just do it every day, anon. That will take you a long way at first.

[Anonymous No.4693873]

>>4693801
Can you actually speak the language after 5 years?

[Anonymous No.4693876]

>>4693801
I don't think you could study the practical side of art in the same way, but you could certainly study concepts. Making flash cards based around anatomy, the bones, the muscles, their origin and insertion points, and their action would be a great way to passively study art. When doing studies or when drawing from observation it would help a ton with understanding what you're seeing and being able to apply it to your drawing.

[Anonymous No.4693881]

>>4693801
>Spaced Repetition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ufz75UvHs

[Anonymous No.4693913]

>>4693873
Passed JLPT N1 after 3 years, practicing between 1 to 2 hours a day (and not necessarily targeting JLPT in my studies, just learning at will).
Now I'm going full turbo autism into deeper study that isn't needed and natives don't know, instead of honing my practical knowledge of the language, so I'm quite far from true fluency.

>>4693876
>I don't think you could study the practical side of art in the same way
Exactly why I struggle. "Just draw" means people will accidentally study the same things over and over again and get their spaced repetition through sheer exposure.
If there is a way to encapsulate visual information into flashcards, that could be done way more efficiently, but I guess having the same nude model show up every few days on Anki wouldn't be the best approach.
I do think building a visual library could work with this, but I'm not entirely sure how to set exercises.

>>4693881
Will watch.

[Anonymous No.4694116]

>>4693913
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egCx3dgGYDI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovSAXB2NHqc

First learn Perspective, that shit will help you A LOT!
https://drawabox.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z--GtzFU2UU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFn9w3uDkz4&feature=youtu.be

[Anonymous No.4694131]

>>4693858
lol op I did the same thing except I decided I couldn't do both and dropped learning Japanese for studying art and I have really gotten close to my art goals.

[Anonymous No.4694138]

>>4693913
>visual library
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEgCsWyOyCo

[Anonymous No.4694198]

I think a way you can use anki for practical purposes is to assign specific concepts to a card and try to employ them in an image completely from memory in order to promote recall.

I.E. You draw a card that says "Repeat Equal Proportions in perspective"

Ok, now you try to reproduce the technique by drawing a 1pt perspective fence. Were you successful? Mark it as learned. Messed up, mark it as relearn and it will come up more frequently until you know the technique and can apply it to a practical end.

[Anonymous No.4694218]

>>4693801
I'm not sure if there is an exact equivalency between using spaced rep to study a language and studying art. I think Anki can be successful because it helps you focus on what you don't know and shrink that unknown pile. At the same time, you don't get overwhelmed with 400 cards you've been getting correct for months straight. I think it's also successful in that it can get you in a routine of learning if you stick with it.

For art, I would boil that down to figuring out what you suck at (drawing/painting/whatever) and practice + learn from how others tackle it daily. That's a bit over simplified but I think that's the heart of trying to progress forward.

[Anonymous No.4694302]

>>4693913
>>4693801
>4,5 years
>I'm quite far from true fluency.
KEK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5t37q1neC4

[Anonymous No.4694341]

Art isn't anything like learning words. Don't try to apply tools that don't fit the job.

You can figure out really easily what you need to practice by drawing something you want to draw and seeing what part you get stuck on or what you could do better.

[Anonymous No.4694353]

>>4693801

Heres an article on Muddy Colors about training art skills with Anki.
Havent tried it myself, but I bookmarked it to return to it.

http://www.muddycolors.com/2020/06/a-case-study-in-artistic-training-methods/

[Anonymous No.4694380]

>>4694131
Joke's on me, huh. I will have a lot of free time once I reach my main Japanese goal this 13th, which I've been grinding for almost 2 years now. Did you do anything special for practice? Were you getting anywhere with Japanese before dropping it?

>>4694138
What am I supposed to take out from this?
One of the ideas would be using Anki to store the "best" reference to a certain subject. And then every time a card would pop up, I would have to draw the object from memory. Once I finish the sketch, I look at the picture in the answer and if I missed any important detail or didn't capture the essence of the subject, I would have to repeat. If I were satisfied, it's a pass. Something like what >>4694198 proposed.

But in his example, it seems to be more about specific concepts and rules, not memorization of arbitrary objects.

>>4694218
>>4694341
Read my reply above. The "key" to making Anki viable would be finding a way to have it assess these weak points so you can space them according to your successes/failures.
The difference being with art it's very hard to self-assess when you yourself sometimes can't even see what's wrong. But I think that is a problem with or without Anki, so I don't think it would be an impediment.

Also, to get away from language learning a little, I've heard of musicians who use Anki to learn Musical intervals (listening exercise). And people use cloze deletion for formulas, solving math problems etc. Not that useful in art, but could be used at the very least as a way to keep methods learned in more formal lessons (like perspective) fresh.

>>4694302
I'm not watching nor subscribing to your pseudo-celebrity's Patreon, if you have anything substantial to say, do it with your own words. ジャパン語でよい。

>>4694353
Oh, nice. I couldn't find much about the subject googling around.
Going to bed now, I'll have a look when I wake up.

[Anonymous No.4696162]

>>4693881
>>4694116
Watched, thanks. That stuff is somewhat how I envision me training for forming a visual library, I did it a few times but not in a structured way. My ears are pretty good because of that.
Still, if you can think of ways to connect this to Anki, I'm all ears.

>>4694353
Read it. Not so clear how the artist does it, but it gets the noggins jogging.
Having a "draw this" prompt and then a reference was one of my initial ideas, if this dude is vouching for it, it might have some fundament.
Sadly, this article is only 1 month old, wish it was at least 1 year old to ask the artist if he stuck with it and felt the gains.

[Anonymous No.4697339]

never heard of anki before. $25 for an app? do you have to make all the flash cards yourself or is there libraries you can browse through since it’s OS?

[Anonymous No.4698108]

>>4697339
>$25 for an app?
Only appletards have to pay, it's free on every other platform. Even then, it's well beyond worth it if you use it long term.
You can download premade decks, share your own etc.

https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/

[Anonymous No.4698171]

hey op, The idea of applying a SRS to art intrigues me. I always had assumed the knowledge from art to be more ephemeral, lying in General knowledge (understanding concepts) and motor ( like playing an instrument ). I would then asses what spot I was weak in and drill that area. The issue is, I find that I often was misguiding myself in what I believed I was truly weak in. Its easy to think that your understanding of anatomy is off when your drawings have wonky anatomy, but the real more blatant issue is line quality. Having an ideal feedback system or a structured study system would probably have saved me some time in that regard.

One concern I might have about using anki and having the cycle be cue-draw-reflect is that anki also measures the time between cue and response, or so I thought. It seems like it would become unusable in that sense. That might make a manual SRS box more applicable?

Your idea is very intriguing to me. I happen to be reading "Ultralearning" by Scott H. Young and can see some clear parallels about how other people have rapidly developed abilities. I am yet to apply this to my own work ( since I haven't finished the fucking book) but plan on it. My goal is art as a main career, then learning french and playing piano, singing, memorizing binomial nomenclature and then going to a university for zoology later in life. Art is an intense passion but denying any of the others would be a sin.

Nevertheless, know that you have a kindred spirit in your goals. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk. love you fampai

[Anonymous No.4698222]

>>4698171
It won't work because practicing art is 999% more important than knowing theoretical art.

[Anonymous No.4698229]

>>4698171
>One concern I might have about using anki and having the cycle be cue-draw-reflect is that anki also measures the time between cue and response, or so I thought.
It only does that for stats; whether you got it right/wrong is the only that that matters to the sorting algorithm.

Also, if you wait more than 1 minute to answer, it won't compute your answer time as it assumes you were AFK.

[Anonymous No.4698288]

>>4698222
I had mentioned the sort of liquid nature artistic training has, like your say here, understanding artistic concepts just allows you to differentiate between those concepts but is mostly useless in improving. But there is an inherent difference from mindless grinding to focused grinding. Hand eye skills may improve even with mindless grinding, but that is because hand eye skills improve naturally through the process of drawing in general. Focusing and drilling your weak points as an artist to grow those will boost both the targeted skill along with line quality, rhythm and coordination. What op is talking about here is applying a framework that intentionally weeds out your strong-points, and in return shows the topics you're weak at, so you can drill them. why spend time drilling persp. boxes when its not what you're weak in?

learning how to draw is so intensely personal, surrounding your goals and what you want to achieve during the drawing. Not studying, just drawing leads to stagnation. Unstructured study leads to slow progress. Structured study leads to rapid, exponential progress. Its hitting that gold spot I think op is trying to find. A tool to find weak points in your own art and study patterns to expedite learning whilst giving you the mileage that most masters talk about. That, or I'm projecting my own goals onto this thread

>>4698229
interesting. That gives this concept a lot more merit in my mind

[Anonymous No.4698303]

>>4693801
SRS doesn’t work for art because art is not something based around knowledge and memorization like language, where the more vocabulary you know, the better you get at speaking and understanding, but rather a skill based around understanding and practice. Muscle memory. The lessons in art aren’t like grammar where they’re things you gotta hard wire into your mind for use, but rather revelations you come to understand and being told about and doing them once or twice in practice. Muscle memory isn’t the same as actual memory, it’s more like your hand skill and something you’re able to do naturally without thinking, but rather out of instinct, abd development in that will happen regardless of anything simply by drawing every day. The other aspect you develop is your eyes, or rather, your understanding of things, and that comes from constant self-analysis and self-assessment. Learning to see the flaws in your own work, and correct them one step at a time, slowly inching your way to where you wanna be by doing, making mistakes, and fixing those mistakes once you’re able to see what you’re doing wrong. This is why SRS doesn’t work, because doing the same things over and over in art doesn’t help like it does in language, as you’re not pushing your boundaries to see where your weak points art. Improvement in art requires exploration and seeking out new things to experience in order to push your limits. A lot of mistakes will correct naturally simply drawing all the time so long as you’re able to see where you fucked up and make note of it for next time.

[Anonymous No.4698310]

>>4698303
Also, improvement in art comes through imitation. It’s really not something that requires you memorize any concepts, but rather by creating, comparing it to where you wanna be, and trying again.

[Anonymous No.4698330]

>>4698288
ALL improvement in art comes from practice and imitation theory. Except colour/value theory (by the way I made notes on it from Gurney and it comes to little more than a page so there's really no point in flashcards), anatomy (you can literally learn this in like a week with anki and you don't need that much unless you want to draw dissected people) desu and learning programs which is best done practically. Imitation, imagination, grinding boxes is where you get your improvement from - as well as passively from your references and good art that you see. Anki won't help you get good for the stuff that matters, only the theory. And that's why art is so timeconsuming, because making pieces takes forever and so does getting good and there's no shortcuts other than using 3D modelling. If you want art as a hobby, you will just have to sacrifice everything else unless you are willing to improve slowly.

[Anonymous No.4698336]

>>4698303
>>4698310
Anon, have you ever learned a language?
A lot of it involves muscle memory, imitation, trial and error. All of this is learned outside of SRS, but SRS can still be used to drill some basic concepts that will help you piece together whatever you're reading/listening/trying to say.
Once you've learned a language, you don't use grammar any more than a master draftsman uses overly detailed construction.

[Anonymous No.4698367]

>>4698303
>>4698330

I agree in the sense that It does exist outside of the realm of memorization of terminology, but I'd like to say that it also exists outside of the relm for muscle memory too? something in between?

For example, I was looking at buying this for a while
https://www.haloneuro.com/products/halo-sport-2
and after some studying decided on passing on it. It works wonders on athletes and musicians when it comes to muscle memory. But while I was looking into it, I could see very few artist applying this to their study. When they were asked how it would work in tandem with art, they claimed that it would most likely improve accuracy with the pen and time drawing without fatigue. If art is something that is focused solely/ predominantly on muscle memory than this would be a lot more practical? wouldn't this expedite your muscle memory? I'm not certain.

that and I feel like you grossly underestimated your exceptions to practice. Composition, Value, Shape, brushwork/line economy are things that may seem like you can pick them up through viewing but truly need a focused approach when it comes to studying them, mastering them and re-applying them to your work.

I am loving this discussion though. Great food for thought

[Anonymous No.4698382]

>>4698367
>I'd like to say that it also exists outside of the relm for muscle memory too?
Yes, you would like to say that.

[Anonymous No.4698399]

>>4698336
I speak three languages, two of them fluently, I’ve taught language for 10 years is numerous countries, I currently live in Japan and am learning Japanese with a current level of N3. I’ve also self taught art, and have worked as an artist professionally. I’ve also taught art to people as well, and have taken up pupils. This is my work. And this is my portfolio:
chagoxchago.artstation.com

I speak from both personal and professional experience when I tell you that learning languages and learning creative skills like art or writing, require totally different approaches. SRS works for language cause italics meant to be a SUPPLEMENT to your immersion in order to make your experience a lot easier as you’ve built familiarity with words through daily repetition. The TRUE learning in language actually happens SUBCONSCIOUSLY through constant and frequent exposure. Grammar exercises and vocabulary memorization are there to help you enhance and speed up the effectiveness of your immersion during READING.

Art on the other hand is a skill of PRACTICE. One that requires constant self assessment and self-critique. It’s a skill of UNDERSTANDING relatively simple concepts, and turning them into fundamental base blocks through constant use in a variety of different challenges. Improvement in art once again happens through a clear goal of where you wanna get to, understanding the core fundamentals, turning those into second nature through HANDS-ON practice. And then applying those skills toward specified challenges you have to problem solve on your own. Art is much more of a problem solving based skill than one based around memory and recollection like language. Like, you can actually MEASURE your skill in language through % based comprehension and track your progress by keeping tally of how many words you cumulatively know.

[Anonymous No.4698407]

>>4698399
cont....

There is no such measurement for art, and the SKILLS are only half the battle, taste and creativity are the other half and no amount of rote memorization will enhance that.

In my opinion. If you’re going to try and learn art through SRS you’re gonna be wasting your time, as art is a skill you improve by pushing your boundaries and constantly failing, not by exposing yourself to something long enough that it assimilates into your mind.

Those are my two cent as someone who has thorough experience in both skills. I honestly can’t even think of how you’d even apply SRS to art skill development, let alone how you’d make it in any way effective.

[Anonymous No.4698411]

Just because you can see and memorise a great composition on your flashcards it doesn't mean that you'll be able to use it. Other subjects you can learn the building blocks and stitch them together. Art doesn't exist that way. Firstly every piece you do will have forms and constructions and perspective and more if you want to improve so you can't learn anything in isolation. It requires practice. Secondly, you can use anki to memorise a piece of art and various aspects of it, but if you incorporate it you'll be called out for plagiarism.

And Anki won't give you the skills to incorporate ie draw it. If you draw something, even if it's right in front of you it won't look right. Even if you literally trace an image it won't look right unless you have extensively put your pen to it hundreds of times -- and you can imagine that tracing a memorised image is a thousand times worse.

Thirdly, there's no benefit to memorising concepts in art because you'll never be without books, references and the internet. My reference library is a hundred gigabytes, I just open it up when I want something and I can do more from imagination, modelling programs on the internet than with anki. I'll never not have my references when I'm doing my art unlike when I might be travelling abroad and need to say something in another language. So anki is a waste of time in this scenario.

It's true that anki helps with languages and many other subjects. Art is not one of those subjects. You won't be piecing together vocabulary with art, if one aspect is fucked it will look fucked to hell and that is why some artists only concentrate on linework or super simplified forms but even those require multiple things like form + perspective minimum. Also a lot of artists conceal what they did to get gud so you won't have anki material even it was possible.

You have to practice it in order to get it. No way around it. You might hurt your wrist and your eyes. No way around it.

[Anonymous No.4698412]

>>4698399
見つけた!

[Anonymous No.4698413]

>>4698407
If anything. I’d say rote memorization based practice will diminish your creative skills as creativity is born out of problem solving, and problem solving requires facing new challenges and experiences in order to be most effective. The mundane aspects of rote repetition are counter-intuitive to the skill you gotta learn for art. Art also has MULTIPLE answers with no true right or wrong, and in fact ENCOURAGES the creation of new solution. Wheras that’s not the case with language. Words only have a set number of meanings. And you either have it right or wrong. When you have to speak there’s a clear right abd wrong way of saying things. With right, being like how any native would say it, and wrong being anything else.

[Anonymous No.4698426]

>>4693913
Did you go through core 10k or what?

[Anonymous No.4698429]

>>4698399
How were you even accepted in Japan with N3 knowledge? Especially since you're probably "old". What the fuck.

[Anonymous No.4698432]

>>4698413
Rote is absolutely essential for art to give it some realism (and style is just breaking and bending rules once you know how it works), but it won't feel like rote because producing art is just so slow you can't capture every possible combo of a rotation of a hand, for example. Flashcards is the right idea but anki won't do it because it offers no practice opportunities. That's why there's timed gesture drawings instead, only no perfect answers. But again, there are components more than just timed gesture drawings. You need to capture it perfectly. There is no high yield deck for you to use with anki as some pieces take me at least 3 whole days to finish, drawing from dawn to dusk every day - which is the time it takes to put together one decent sized anki deck quickly for me.

[Anonymous No.4698450]

>>4698429
Because I’m not that old. I moved here at 28, and I got in through English, like most other gaijin do, which doesn’t require any Japanese at all. In fact, there was a period of time where I worked full time as an artist in Europe living off contracts, commissions, and lessons, but I went back to language teaching in order to move to Japan. Truth be told, only reason I’m not working as an artist is cause my Japanese simply isn’t good enough. I personally haven’t applied yet, but I know that to work in anything else other than English teacher in Japan you basically need an N2 level. Also, my goals aren’t exactly to live as an artist or illustrator, but rather live off my own creative work, which is why I came here in the first place.

Also, fwiw, I actually turn 30 in a couple days, but thankfully I look a lot younger than I am, even by Asian standards. Most girls think I’m 24.

[Anonymous No.4698461]

>>4698432
Times gesture drawings don’t work with Anki because you should be drawing different things every time, and quickposes.com already exists anyway. In fact, that site sucked more when their variety of images was more limited and you ran into a lot of the same poses every time. Moreover, if you’re not doing life drawing in art, especially as a beginner, you’re doing it VERY wrong. Sitting down to draw poses, or sketch from real life, or practice your perspective or line control by drawing cubes or the like isn’t rote, as you should, once again, be drawing different things. Having anki to remind you to draw 10 cubes is just an utter waste if time, as it better to just take note of your own weaknesses as you’re applying what you’ve learned when making complete pieces.

[Anonymous No.4698470]

>>4698399
>>4698407
I have to say, I do respect the petagree. You've invested a lot of time into your work and you seem very knowledgeable. I guess why what your saying is such a bitter pill for me to swallow is personal. I've invested ample time solely on my artistic growth and haven't reached a professional level in my 5 years of study. It falls back not on a lack of information, learning theory and focus, but on a lack of pure mileage from my part. It's hard to seperate your own feelings and motives from your logic, and when I look back I desperately want to be able to say "Here! its because I didn't learn/ focus on this topic idiot! This will piece the puzzle together and you can finally move forward with your life" Believing that it was something I was doing wrong in my process, believing a framework or lack of framework is the reason For my lack of progress is just a diversion from painting in itself. Alas, the solution is always the easiest and simultaneously the most difficult.

thank you for sharing your content. This has been a very insightful and sobering read. Going to ruminate on this until I feel like I can properly digest it. Thank you for sharing Ivan

[Anonymous No.4698495]

>>4698470
Not them but every year you're chipping away at mileage it is one more year you'll have over someone who has given up and has stopped drawing. Art improvement is slow. The examples you see of people improving quickly are a few examples in an absolute sea of artists. Plus, maybe they had a really good reference or cherrypicked it. Keep drawing and mileaging and you are bound to see improvements. If not, try doing more master studies

[Anonymous No.4698527]

>>4698470
Oh, art is 100% mileage based, because it’s a practiced skill. As much as /ic/ likes to avert itself from the 10,000 hours meme, there is a strong degree of truth to it. Perhaps not as dramatic as 10,000 hours (especially since that’s mastery and not competence), but you do need to pour several daily hours into it, every say (with the occasional break or gap in between intense bursts). To me, art progression felt more comparable to when I did bodybuilding or power lifing. Where you wouldn’t really see much progress from one week to the next, but in hindsight, you look back and are able to see how much you’ve actually progressed from where you started. It’s very much a situation of baby-stepping your way toward where you want to get to.

Like, look at it from my end. I began learning art in 2013, and I’ve been drawing since I was a kid. I could either a) compare myself to people who are either younger than me and more skilled than me, or who got beyond my level in less time, or b) focus on my own growth and goals as art is a personal journey, and encompasses a very broad range of skills. Manga is not like character design, which is not like illustration/painting, which is not like animation. There’s a very large variety of different focuses required for each skill, and pulling your attention more toward one will rake away time you can spend toward learning another.

[Anonymous No.4698531]

Additionally, different life circumstances mean people learn at different speeds, if you’re having to balance art with a full time job and social responsibilities, you’re going to progress much slower than someone who is able to do it full time without any other worries. Having the right environment and circle of friends also helps. Being around other artists helps you get in a more competitive and supportive mindset, as well as finding a good source of viable critique. The biggest benefit of art school is in fact that networking opportunity, rather than the teachers. And on the previous point, I can say from experience that dedicating 8+ hours a day to learning art will help you see massive gains. My biggest leaps in skill where actually when I quit my job and lived off of unemployment and savings for a year and a bit with the sole focus of improving my art, and coming out on the other side hoping to be skilled enough to live off of it.

Now in hindsight, idk if that’s something I’d recommend people do, as living a balanced life is important, and sacrificing my social life is something that affected my mental well-being considerably. Moreover, creativity, imo, is dependent largely on real life experience, and bing couped up in your room all day, every day, for months on end with very minimal social interaction is no way to live life and obtain meaningful life experience. So, it’s a nuanced point, it’s neither here nor there, but if you’re frustrated with your art progression, I can give a few pointers:

1) look back at your work from when you started and see if you’ve actually improved or not
2) tale note of how much time you’re actually learning art, and I mean actually learning it, as in keep your phone away and make sure you’re actually spending that quality time fully immersed in what you’re doing.

[Anonymous No.4698532]

3) self-asses your own work, and your own methods of learning. Make sure you’re practicing the concepts you learn, and the applying what you practiced in your work, seek out various teachers too, the more broad perspectives you have on a subject, the more thorough your understanding
4) learn methods of self critique, learn to see your own mistakes in your own work rather than relying on other people. i.e flipping the canvas
5) don’t be of afraid to trace and copy other people’s work (AS LEARNING TOOLS, plagiarism is wrong), but monkey see monkey do, tracing and copying are great ways to help you understand how someone else did what you wanna do, and replicate it. Leave your pride at the door, pride won’t make you draw better.
6) seek out people (irl) who can offer you honest and helpful critique on your work, they don’t have to be good artists either, just people with good taste and not afraid of being honest with you
7) make sure you draw from REAL life (no not photographs), carry a sketchbook with you at all times and fill up those pages with drawings from the world around you (as well as imagination from time to time), whenever you have even 5 minutes of free time, pull out your sketchbook and draw what’s around you.
8) make sure you’re constantly pushing your boundaries and trying out new things. I don’t care if you only wanna draw porn or anime girls, if you want to be good at art you should learn to draw everything, and find joy in exploring new things and breaking outside of your comfort zone. Complacency breeds stagnation. Only way to to improve is to fail, and only way to fail is by exploring new things

[Anonymous No.4698534]

9) have fun. Study shouldn’t be rote repetition or brainless exercises (those are your warm up) study means, set up a piece to work ok, one that challenges a particular weakness of it, problem solving your way through it, finishing it (if you can ), and moving onto the next challenge. For example “I’m bad at perspective” then draw a vehicle, a citiscape, or something using 3p perspective. Find your weak points, and target them specifically.

[Anonymous No.4698539]

>>4698461
>drawing different things
>quickposes.com
Pick one.

*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.4698561]

>>4698539
I used quickposes back when their selection was even smaller, and they didn’t have categories like landscapes. I’d often replace QP with just choosing my own images from stuff I’d collected from here and put into a ref folder. I was also lucky enough that I always had access to real life models where I could just draw that too. That said, it does have a skip button, and even back then their selection was large enough that if you couldn’t run out of stuff to draw if you didn’t skip non-repeats, though admittedly they do have many bad poses amid their selection. You just gotta be a little less choosy. Still, that pose is really good compared to others. Guy in viking armory standing upright and facing the camera was the meme pose from when I used it a lot.

[Anonymous No.4698567]

>>4698561
Also, if some of my sentences don’t make sense I apologize, it’s 2am, and I just got back from drinking with some friends. Hopefully I managed to get my message across well enough and offer some good advice.

[Anonymous No.4698625]

>>4698426
That and Taekim grammar was my bread and butter for a few months, but then you just start consooming media and getting words from it.
Just go to >>>/int/djt or >>>/jp/djt and use the resources from the guide. Adjust it to your own pace; wanna take it easy? Do 15 minutes a day and you'll be proficient in a decade without breaking a sweat. Speed up whenever you feel like it.

>>4698450
OP here. I read all your posts, but I won't mass-quote. Your profile is very similar to mine (nearing 30, 4 languages under my belt, same life goals), except you have accomplished things and isn't stranded in some sterile shithole sucking away your vital energy.
Reading all this is inspiring, but also sad for what I've already NOT done. The clock is ticking.
I would love to be your friend and absorb more of that energy. All I can offer back of any substance right now is help with Japanese. If you have trannyscord, pic related is me trying to come back from a slump, starting today. I can reach out somewhere else.

>>4698470
And you should be my art gf. I'm assuming you're >>4698171 >>4698288 >>4698367 and if so we are definitely in the same wavelength. If you'd like to feel bad about procrastination but still push back, I'm your guy. And I'm about to start another round of drawing until burnout, hoping it won't come around this time. pls respond

[Anonymous No.4698659]

>>4698495
Funny enough not too long ago I posted here and was being helped out by another anon about a theoretical method on breaking down an image for a master study, focusing on pareto's principle : what 20% of this art is containing the important 80% of the impact? if the artist took a month or so to complete it, what is the core that can be dissected and absorbed into your own work in a day and a half? It seems entirely misguided after reading this thread. Time wasted thinking instead of drawing. I do agree, more master studies is usually the solution to almost every issue, although I feel I'm more than a year off from going into a professional area. I'm worried about my rate of improvement and my ability to focus and put the necessary mileage behind me. I'll include my work instead of a shitpost image this time

>>4698527
Interesting enough I would say I started playing with the idea of pursuing art in 2014-2015. I guess I took the first path of your comment. Compare myself to artist from studios I want to work for, produce something that could fit thematically and then do an autopsy on the remains after I shat it out. It felt both helpful and abysmal. Saying "they've worked harder and longer than I have" feels like a coping mechanism. It's misplaced time

>>4698531
thank you for these tips. I try to implement these through my work naturley, especially for 3,4,5,8 and 9. It seems all the feedback I ever get from artists is empty-positive, or miniscule (nobody is willing to say the value scheme is fucked, they will point out one arm might need to be a bit longer than the other) and when I post on here My work isn't interesting enough to get replies I could seek out a stronger support group but I feel like that might be a time mismanagement, in addition to the fact that I'm not in any place to be giving critical feedback anyway. I tend to lean largely introverted so I really do enjoy the time to myself alone. I know real-world 1/2

[Anonymous No.4698676]

>>4698659
The 20/80 rule is true.
If you do good on thumbnailing, composition and construction, you're already done. Now it's only a matter of spending 4 times that amount of time art-finalizing, but the quality of the outcome is pretty much already determined.

[Anonymous No.4698681]

>>4698531
practice and sketching is massively helpful though but since 'rona, I haven't gone out to sketch people at the mall like I would do weekly. Whether it's what been holding me back of just the inability to put enough time in to grow I don't know

>>4698567
Again, thank you very much for your help Ivan. I hope your night went great and your insight has been very helpful. Have a great sleep

>>4698625
hello anon, it sounds like you're looking for an art gf and I'm glad we have the same wavelength. I am a bit shy and slow to respond but I will add you. I'd love to discuss methods for language acquisition and share information

[Anonymous No.4698693]

>>4698676
the rule focused more on a sequential series of studies based around the acronym CHIVES, (Composition, Hue, Intention, Value, Edges and Shape) In that once you got a handle on these, you have the image. Starting with a comp study, then a drawover marking out the large shapes, A longer-term 3 tone value study and then correcting the edges from that value study. Finally picking, comparing and applying colors using a color-overlay. I planned on fleshing the idea out and then I found I spent way more time thinking and writing about it than actually using it, so I put it on hold. If you can find any use for it, feel free

[Anonymous No.4698705]

What happens if I already put the mileage on a regular basis but I'm unable to attain any internalized understanding when doing studies or practice on the regular? Can anyone help me on how to achieve this? Anything that I practice I end up forgetting when studying something else even if all comes into play when working on something. As of now I find myself constantly going back to things I already went over, if I try to move to something new none of the previous things carry over and I end up at square 1 all over again.

[Anonymous No.4698711]

>>4698705
>I find myself constantly going back to things I already went over
You will do that until the day you die, anon.
As long as you're getting gains, I'd say keep up with the work ethic.

You might need mentorship from people whose art you enjoy/look up to if you're not growing in the desired direction, if you're good enough to make commissions or have a job, consider the investment. You're well on your way there.

[Anonymous No.4698720]

>>4698711
>As long as you're getting gains
I'm not, that's the problem. As a matter of fact I'm just getting worse.

[Anonymous No.4698723]

>>4698711
Also forgot to reply to this
>if you're good enough to make commissions or have a job
I'm not, I'm absolutely terrible

[Anonymous No.4698728]

>>4698659
I really like this pic but I feel like the forground cloud spikes you have pointing in detract from the piece, they feel a bit out of place, you have all these long flowing curves running through out the piece and these seem to clash rather than reinforce it, and they are still a bit too uniform in their spacing.

I'd keep a couple on the right side top but I think i'd remove the ones in the bottom left and bottom middle and repaint them to keep the flow running through the picture.

just my 2 cents, im shit so i could be wrong I can't really paint in what i mean i hope you get the idea, just some food for thought atleast

[Anonymous No.4698755]

>>4698527
>Oh, art is 100% mileage based, because it’s a practiced skill. As much as /ic/ likes to avert itself from the 10,000 hours meme, there is a strong degree of truth to it. Perhaps not as dramatic as 10,000 hours (especially since that’s mastery and not competence),

you can go 10k hours and be mediocre, 10k def won't make you a master, and arts not 100% mileage at all, a big part of it's mileage but I know artists that haven't improved in years, even regressed.

[Anonymous No.4698766]

>>4698527
>Oh, art is 100% mileage based, because it’s a practiced skill. As much as /ic/ likes to avert itself from the 10,000 hours meme, there is a strong degree of truth to it. Perhaps not as dramatic as 10,000 hours (especially since that’s mastery and not competence),

you can go 10k hours and be mediocre, 10k def won't make you a master, and arts not 100% mileage at all, a big part of it's mileage but I know artists pro & armature that haven't improved in years, even regressed.

[Anonymous No.4698778]

>>4698755
>>4698766

10,000 hours of focused, assesed, goal oriented practice vs 10,000 of drawing the same thing over mindlessly or just doing what some tutorial tells you to do without truely trying to break it down and understand the meaning behind said practice.
big difference

Pros can regress if they are happy with their job/income, at that point its just mindless pumping out of variations of the same shit (sakimi) rather than striving to get better and land a better job/income. It also comes down to what you want to get out of your art

[Anonymous No.4698780]

>>4698527
>Oh, art is 100% mileage based, because it’s a practiced skill. As much as /ic/ likes to avert itself from the 10,000 hours meme, there is a strong degree of truth to it. Perhaps not as dramatic as 10,000 hours (especially since that’s mastery and not competence),

you can go 10k hours and be mediocre, 10k def won't make you a master, and arts not 100% mileage at all, a big part of it's mileage but I know artists pro & armature that draw hours daily haven't improved in years, even regressed.

[Anonymous No.4698787]

>>4698778
>10,000 hours of focused, assesed, goal oriented practice
that's not "100% pure mileage"

[Anonymous No.4698810]

>>4698787
yeah it is, 2 people putting down the same line, same length and same time, the dude that put it down knowing why he put it that way and what its going to lead into/represent etc will gain more than the dude that just did it without any understanding/thinking as to why he did it

basically they both do 10,000 hours of mark making, its the time spent inbetween the mark making that depends on who gets better

[Anonymous No.4698833]

>>4698810
pure mileage is just doing the thing or time put in mindlessly, not planning, dedicated learning, or theory.

[Anonymous No.4698875]

>>4698625
Yeah i extensively use itazuraneko it's a masterpiece, im also nearing completion of tae kim, do you recommend i go to shin kanzen master grammar books so i can chase those JLPT points after or do i just stick to consooing/translating manga/LN/media in general?

[Anonymous No.4698878]

>>4698833
You should probably look into what the 10,000 hour rule actually is, rather than what you read in a comment somewhere

[Anonymous No.4698892]

>>4698878
are you just retarded?

[Anonymous No.4698899]

>>4698875
Only do Kanzen if you want to be thorough and has any intention of using Japanese in the future for study/business purposes.

Nothing beats consuming and absorbing the language, grammar guides are great for troubleshooting when you don't get something.

[Anonymous No.4699583]

>>4698720
>>4698723
You are contradicting yourself. How can you be absolutely terrible and still get worse?

Either you are too impatient and haven't had the time to actually improve, or pic related.
If you think there is definitely something wrong, I guess posting your work would make it easier for everyone to analyze what is the issue.

[Anonymous No.4700299]

>>4699583
>You are contradicting yourself. How can you be absolutely terrible and still get worse?
Is not contradictory, basically I set up a new bar for worse in my book every day, in my experience you can always get worse somehow. Also its worse in the sense that even if I put more effort or I try to be more smart about the effort I put into it it doesn't change anything.
>Either you are too impatient and haven't had the time to actually improve, or pic related.
I had improvement on my first year but now on my second everything is falling off and I'm actually regressing nonstop in a linear fashion which is frightening, at this pace I'm gonna go back where I started on my first year by the end of this year.
>I guess posting your work would make it easier for everyone to analyze what is the issue.
I'm extremely aware that my work is all around wrong and terrible and for that reason alone I'm deeply ashamed of it, I'm aware of my multiple issues and weak areas I need to work on (basically everything, but I'm focusing in accuracy, proportion and anatomy at the moment). My question is more about how to make training effective once again and get gains back, I've been trying to use the effective art study gain as well as study from references and try to deconstruct them on the regular but I'm still getting worse somehow against all common sense, I'm at my wits' end.

[Anonymous No.4700669]

>>4700299
Well, it's hard to play the soothsayer, but have you watched the videos in this thread?
The Iterative drawing approach might be what you're missing.
Or creating a project to apply your skills into something more than "naked guys everywhere", and then you can have specific goals on what do improve.

[Anonymous No.4701326]

>>4698450
goddamn good luck anon best wishes to your endeavor. I wish I had the gut to move far but I'm stuck here.

[Anonymous No.4701401]

>>4698450

dude I'm 28 and currently in the later stages of the application to be an ALT through the interac program and I'm starting to get cold feet.
basically i have no japanese training, i tried memorizing it by myself and it won't stick because I have nowhere to use it. I was hoping moving to japan would solve that.
Im scared to go because I taught english in israel but then had a mental breakdown because of drug induced psychosis (cough syrup and weed) i had to ditch the program but luckily had family abroad in israel who helped me more or less escape from being put in a israeli mental institute.

I'm miserable here in America, and living in Japan would be a dream come true of mine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not so delusional that I think It's gonna fix all my problems. I guess I'm hoping that Japan's strict anti drug policy would help me to stay sober. I'm also paranoid the students won't like me because I won't be able to explain the concepts to them and just parrot english phrases at them.

I would start in march 2021, just tell me, is it worth it?

pic related is me and my dog
im aware i have to cut and redye my hair for the job as well as shave

[Anonymous No.4701663]

>>4701401
>pothead jew
>thinks this is /soc/
Stay out of my grorious Nippon.

[Anonymous No.4701792]

>>4701663

the fuck crawled up your ass

>implying im a pothead

go fuck your sister you probably euotrash or eurotrash worshipping cuck

jesus crustable im not even mad but man when did all of 4chan get littered with you /pol/ cucks

>thinks this is /soc/

butter duff butt buddy i think you better take a look around at your glorious /ic/ half of this shit is "wyuah vent confess im shad but im also an artist check out my insta"

[Anonymous No.4701804]

>>4701792
Nice diversion attempt. 尊皇攘夷。

[Anonymous No.4701807]

>>4693801
I had forgotten about Anki. I used it many years ago. Anyway, I learned a lot through this memrise course:
https://www.memrise.com/course/87415/artistic-anatomy/

Something similar should be very useful.

[Anonymous No.4704930]

>>4701807
>few years ago
>decks are still "in progress"
Sad!

[Anonymous No.4707386]

>>4698681
>hello anon, it sounds like you're looking for an art gf and I'm glad we have the same wavelength. I am a bit shy and slow to respond but I will add you
NONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOO IT WAS MY TURN GOD I AM SO LONELY