/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4649926]

Guys... is /asg/ gonna be okay? I took a little look at some of their last few threads, and what I found... oh god.

[Anonymous No.4649931]

>>4649926
/asg/ has always been the /beg/ weeaboo containment thread, what's new

[Anonymous No.4649932]

pain

[Anonymous No.4649935]

>>4649926
You forgot one

[Anonymous No.4649944]

>>4649935
That's a good one. Honestly there was so much nuclear waste in only a couple threads that I had a hard time choosing what to display.

[Anonymous No.4649960]

Jesus christ, people should just do studies from refs first and then transition to anime

[Anonymous No.4649961]

>>4649944
>>4649935
stfu and loomis harder, faggot

[Anonymous No.4649963]

>>4649935
>it's as good as telling someone to "just keep walking" when they asked for directions to a destination

But... but what if that is literally how you get to the destination? What are you supposed to say? "Yeah so just keep walking, keep going, take the forward direction, once you get to an intersection you're gonna wanna go forward, you'll reach the Best Buy, take the forward direction, then once you reach a second intersection you're gonna wanna go forward"

[Anonymous No.4649967]

>>4649963
>lol what if i take your hypothetical literally?
your smart

[Anonymous No.4649968]

You remember those obnoxious kids in art class that smelled weird and drew anime? That's asg. They'll never learn and they'll never take a shower.

[Anonymous No.4649969]

Please leave special ed kids in their containment thread. God knows they can barley handle each other let alone commentary from the rest of the board. You start talking about them and it'll rile them up.

inb4 some comment about floating Loomis heads.

Kek.

[Anonymous No.4649978]

>>4649926
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Anonymous No.4649991]

>>4649969
>haha I'm better than them
>haha I'm so awesome
>haha, look at the plebs
>haha, imagine actually wanting to help them
>haha

[Anonymous No.4649994]

>>4649969
>misspelled "barely"
wew lad!

[Anonymous No.4650012]

>>4649926
>making fun or trash 1 month beginners
come on brother

[Anonymous No.4650015]

>>4649994
back to facebook

[Anonymous No.4650020]

>>4650012
Nobody is making fun of beginners for sucking. People are making fun of hostile dunning-kruger beginners who act like apes, attacking those trying to help them because they aren't "helping them the right way".

[Anonymous No.4650022]

>Making fun of people
ngmi behavior. Bettering yourself doesn't involve tearing others down.

[Anonymous No.4650024]

>>4650012
I specifically left out of the image beginners that were only trying to learn. The only people in op's pic are autistic retards.

[Anonymous No.4650029]

>>4650015
Never came from it, brother
None of the typical social media retorts work on me, actually
I happen to actually not be a hypocrite lmao

[Anonymous No.4650030]

>>4649926
Wait, isn't that beginner go /asg/ and pros go /alt/??
Did i missed anything?

[Anonymous No.4650032]

crabs gonna crab: >>4650020

Authoritarian tactics never work, you turnip. You can't just say, "do it" and expect it to be done.

[Anonymous No.4650036]

>>4650029
>aktully i literally never gone to FaceBook haha
>ur arguement litrelly dont make sense haha

[Anonymous No.4650038]

>>4649926
Glad i'm becoming famous around here.
Those on top is not my posts though.
Also, i still haven't see any valid counter argument besides of bunch of crabs flinging shit.
PYW if you want to prove me wrong.

>>4650012
>>4650022
At least there's people that still make sense around here.

[Anonymous No.4650043]

>>4650036
>i can't handle being wrong xd
>>4650038
loomis, nigga

[Anonymous No.4650044]

>>4650030
/alt/ is only marginally better, there's not a lot of decent feedback to be found there either >>4648006

[Anonymous No.4650052]

>>4650038
You're right, you had so many sperging posts I couldn't fit them all. But congrats, you take up at least 75% of the image all by yourself, not including this gem >>4649935

You are the poster child of ngmi.

[Anonymous No.4650073]

>>4649926
I think there's hope as long as anons like the one who made pic related post here. Although I think getting good implies leaving this crab bucket. Like it's a consequence. I started lurking and posting on /ic/ almost two years ago and it is already very noticeable that the ones who are/become competent eventually get tired of this place.
Drunk rant. Sorry.
>>4649967
Yeah, but >>4649963 is right. To get better you have to draw. Keep walking. Drawing's not something you can learn by watching tutorials, you have to use the fucking pencil. You have the means, you have the sticky, you have the video course thread and the artbook thread. You can't expect to have everything spoonfed into your ngmi mouth.

[Anonymous No.4650077]

>>4650073
>You can't expect to have everything spoonfed into your ngmi mouth.
Oh but they do.

[Anonymous No.4650079]

honestly it's probably because /asg/ is so effective that people who post there get jobs in the industry at such a fast pace that the only people you see posting are the ones discovering it for the first time

[Anonymous No.4650089]

>>4650079
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA that's the best joke I've heard in a long time. Based comedian.

[Anonymous No.4650094]

>>4650073
I don't think there's any hope as long as people tolerate with crabs dragging down each other.
Look at >>4650052 spending so much time trying to drag me down.
He event spent time to compile a picture of my posts.
That's true autism there.

Luckily i'm not one of the crab, so i won't be drag down by these idiot crabs, nor will i join them to drag others down.

[Anonymous No.4650109]

>>4650094
Nice job playing the victim you delusional faggot.

[Anonymous No.4650123]

>>4650109
alright, i will give you a chance to explain yourself then.
How is the picture in OP gonna help me to improve my art? or improve your own art? (ignoring the fact that you could had spend the time to draw instead)

Let me tell you what it is.
It's a failed crab attempt to bully me and drag me down.
Evidently, look at the bottom right section of the picture.
Of how you are highlighting me taking so much time to draw, attempting to shame me for being bad.

Oh btw, PYW.

[Anonymous No.4650126]

>>4650123
>look at the bottom right section
I meant bottom left.

[Anonymous No.4650133]

>>4650094
If you're not sketch tranny then you're probably caught in the crossfire

[Anonymous No.4650140]

>>4650133
>caught in the crossfire
nah, it's direct fire on me.
People here are mostly frustrated crabs that find joy in shitting on others and getting reactions from me.
Speaking of which, it's been awhile since i saw sketchfag posting here.
I thought he post his sketched loli in every thread.

[Anonymous No.4650163]

Just pick up a book, obverse it closely and draw it, and if you can apply it to your current drawing skills till you notice a change

[Anonymous No.4650165]

>>4650163
And also if you like an artist so much do >>4650073 this but also you shouldn't take everything at face value and just keep drawing no matter what

[Anonymous No.4650166]

>loomis is just a meme to trigger you
Is this fag serious?

[Anonymous No.4650172]

>>4650123
>>4650140
>People here are mostly frustrated crabs that find joy in shitting on others

you're not wrong lmao, as long as you don't stoop to their level you have a better chance of improving.

No one that's good at drawing would trash on someone that's starting the journey, they know how long and arduous it is. BUT, you are wrong when it comes to direction from what you said in >>4649935 your construction is terrible and it is clear you don't understand it. Practicing the fundamentals like perspective and understanding 3d forms (yes, like boxes even if you find them boring) will take you a long way.

[Anonymous No.4650175]

>>4650140
people shit on you because you fucking rage like an ape when people tell you to do things that will help you.

[Anonymous No.4650195]

You can't learn to draw anime

[Anonymous No.4650209]

>>4650094
I have genuinely tried to help you before, no name calling, nothing, and you told me to fuck off, said I was a crab, told me the books I suggested were "memes" and weren't going to help. You are utter trash. You aren't being made fun of because you suck, everybody sucks at the beginning. (I told you that too, and you told me that I only succeed because I have talent that was given to me for free, I didn't have to work for it) You're being made fun of because you're a gigantic faggot.

[Anonymous No.4650214]

>>4650126
Because people told you to move on and not waste all your time on 1 drawing. You spent all week polishing that turd instead of moving on. Then you sperged out.

[Anonymous No.4650229]

>>4650094
You're discrediting people trying to help you. ngmi behavior. acknowledge that your art is shit and use it to improve yourself.

[Anonymous No.4650273]

kek anime posters not even once

[Anonymous No.4650280]

>>4650038
>i still haven't see any valid counter argument besides of bunch of crabs flinging shit.
here's one: you draw like shit, man

[Anonymous No.4650292]

>>4650012
Trust me, I lurk their discord and threads, some of them have been beg for a lot longer than 1 month

[Anonymous No.4650293]

>>4650172
>your construction is terrible and it is clear you don't understand it.
didn't i mentioned that myself?
>The construction line doesn't even help because i have no idea how to use it properly.

>Practicing the fundamentals like perspective and understanding 3d forms
Guess what? Your advice is not the one i'm upset and frowned upon.
But those who just reply with "More Loomis" & "More fundamentals" without any mentioning of any skills like you did with perspective and stuffs.

>>4650175
lol, look who's raging like an ape with the curse words.
That doesn't make you look more mature, alright?

>>4650209
I'm pretty sure you are looking at the wrong guy.
I looked into the recommendations and thanks the person if they says anything than just "LOOMIS!!11!!" & "FUNDIES!!!"

>>4650214
>told you to move on
attempting to gaslight me?
I told u crabs it doesn't work.
People gave me feedbacks and advice on how to improve the drawing, so i modified it and asks for more feedback to see if i'm following their advice right.

>>4650229
stop posting and grind loomis and fundamentals.
See? I helped you too~ so helpful right?

Again, nobody even posted their works.

[Anonymous No.4650340]

>>4650293
Lmao you act like greysketch

[Anonymous No.4650345]

>>4650293
Learn to measure man
You can't even draw a circle or copy a simple anime drawing
I mean, come on
Draw an axis and use verticals to measure distance and angles
How hard could that be

[Anonymous No.4650347]

Gentlemen, how do we fix /asg/?

[Anonymous No.4650350]

>>4650073
>I think there's hope as long as anons like the one who made pic related post here
Pray mrpurin stays here

[Anonymous No.4650354]

>>4650293
>stop posting and grind loomis and fundamentals.
I think your main problem is you don't see this as valid advice. This is what's doing you in. It's totally valid advice, in fact it's the simplest and most pertinent information for you are your drawing level. You fuckin need loomis. Your construction is dogshit, and loomis teaches construction. Hence: LOOMIS!!11!!" as you put it. You're basically just symbol drawing the facial features, so yeah, "FUNDIES!!!".

Do you think we didn't all "grind loomis and fundies"? How do you think you get to this level? It isn't "drawing anime". It's a long time of sincere effort put forth into improving, and it starts at LOOMIS & FUNDIES!!11!!&

[Anonymous No.4650365]

>>4650347
Anybody with a brain knows that if your end game is drawing high quality waifus, you need to learn realistic stuff as well. Although it is fine to draw your waifus on the side, in fact it is encouraged.

That being said, if /asg/ was just a place for that "on the side waifu fun", it would be fine. Unfortunately people are using it as an echo chamber for dumbass opinions.
>WOW LOOMIS SURE IS A MEME HUH GUYS??
>SOMEBODY TOLD ME TO READ KEYS TO DRAWING. ROFL WHAT A CRAB, I TOLD HIM TO KYS

The thread needs more productivity and less irrational venting.

[Anonymous No.4650372]

>>4649994
You really exemplify the very problem with the vocal minority here which seems to have a strong congregation in /asg/.

>You made a spelling error! Thank makes everything you have to say invalid!

>You made mistake in your drawing, that means you have no right to try help and critique anyone!

>>4649991
See above; trying to help people so volatile even to their own community drives everyone who could help out. The mere fact that this thread exist should tell you something, but its just like the vocal people who frequent /asg/ to bite your entire arm off for trying to extend a hand to help.

[Anonymous No.4650374]

>>4650365
/asg/ will continue to get worse as time goes on. Something like this usually happens on a daily basis in that shithole general and It only took one sperging autist to cause this much shit.

[Anonymous No.4650380]

>>4650350
god bless purin.

>>4650354
Of course that's not valid advice.
Can you imagine if someone asks you how to draw a head, and you reply, with paper and pen of course.

And now with >>4650365
I will just say this one last time.
Loomis is fine, you can definitely learn from it.
But just telling someone "More Loomis" & "FUNDIES" is not a valid advice.

Learn from this anon here >>4650172 when you give advice.
Use certain drawing in loomis as example to give advice, not just tell someone "LUL LOOMIS".
State the fundamentals like "learn perspective because your perspective looks weird at X position" as example to give advice, not just tell someone "MORE FUNDIES!!"

If you think people that just reply with "more loomis" & "grind fundies" trying to pass that as valid advice, you are the reason this place is so shit.
You, are the reason this place chase away the newcomers.

>>4650374
I'm sorry i'm so uncool and have human tendencies to reply in explanations instead of just going meme replies like "lol k faggot crab".
If you wanted to call that sperging, go on.

I'm done arguing with you crabs.
You can continue attacking the strawman you created while i continue to learn.
I will just continue to draw, learn, post practice and proceed to ignore you crabs.

[Anonymous No.4650386]

>>4650380
>But just telling someone "More Loomis" & "FUNDIES" is not a valid advice.
When you're talking to a pure /beg/ there's really nothing else to say. You could redraw the whole thing for them, but all you're doing for them at that point is doing a demonstration of Loomis/fundies. There's no point in putting in effort to help people who won't put in the effort to help themselves first.

[Anonymous No.4650401]

>>4650380
>You can continue attacking the strawman you created while i continue to learn.
>learn
Learn what? Oh right nothing, since your dumbass only want to make excuses and shit.

[Anonymous No.4650423]

>>4650380
how is reading and studying books by a specific author not a direction

if someone asks how to draw a head, the answer is fucking read Drawing the Head and Hands and its obvious you didn't pick up what he teaches so read it again, that's what MORE LOOMIS means

It is specific, valid, actionable advice but for some reason you're convinced that Loomis is a meme

[Anonymous No.4650424]

>>4649926
hi have you heard of mithrilda shes my favourite art youtuber

[Anonymous No.4650431]

Where is the drawpile..................

[Anonymous No.4650440]

>>4649926
not even /beg/ is like this
this is what happens when you draw only anime

[Anonymous No.4650465]

The lolis pedo posting keep getting away with it

[Anonymous No.4650466]

>>4650380
Anon everythin you did is wrong. I'm betting you even grab the tablet pen wrong. You need to learn from zero. Therefore: study Loomis, Hampton, Vilppu, Huston. Whoever. But study, grab a book, a video course, and do it.

[Anonymous No.4650480]

Why even bother tracing anime faces instead of learning fundies first. Not only that, learning from just anime instead of gathering specific mangaka or Japanese artists you like is a good way to make your artstyle look disgustingly generic.

[Anonymous No.4650488]

>>4650480
Explaino

[Anonymous No.4650492]

>>4649960
this

good anime artists are good artists first and good animators second

[Anonymous No.4650495]

>>4650012
>1 month
Pfffhahaha these people don't learn for years my dude

[Anonymous No.4650510]

I legitimately don't understand the philosophy behind wanting to draw anime without first knowing how to draw in the first place. They're essentially implying that they believe one does not need fundamentals for anime because anime has a lower skill floor in their minds. For if this isn't true, and anime does indeed require an understanding of fundamentals, then they're knowingly walking into a dead end until they confront the roadblocks of anatomy, perspective, etc. This is just textbook hypocrisy.

[Anonymous No.4650516]

>>4650510
Do you think Twitter artists think the same way?

[Anonymous No.4650519]

>>4650516
Maybe you should ask them.

[Anonymous No.4650665]

>>4650510
You are expecting too much of people who just want to draw porn.

[Anonymous No.4650691]

>>4650510
>They're essentially implying that they believe one does not need fundamentals for anime because anime has a lower skill floor in their minds
Yes this is the reason 99% of the time unironically. Mostly because they assume its like nu-western cartoons where you only need a very basic grasp of the fundamentals.

[Anonymous No.4650707]

>>4650380
Your metaphor is way off. It's not like telling someone to draw a head with paper and pen. You're totally glossing over the most important point: The advice is catered specifically to your level.

If you keep doing your shitty 10 year old doodles you aren't going to get better. Practice doesn't make perfect. Drawing lots of ugly pictures will just make you very good at drawing ugly pictures. We assume you want to make aesthetically pleasing art, so we're telling you what you can do to get there, which is to better your fundamentals.

Imagine we're bakers, and we're criticizing and awful cake. The cake itself is falling apart, tastes horrible, and looks like shit. We're telling you to go back to baking school. We can't give you small bits of advice, feedback, or criticism because you all of the advice we can give is based around fundamental building blocks.
What you call "More Loomis & FUNDIES" is our way of telling you: Your cake is awful. You need to learn how to bake a cake before you can learn how to ice it. You need to learn to walk before you can run, and you can hardly stand.

Call me a crab if you want, I wouldn't be this harsh if you weren't so obtuse and stubborn in your refusal to listen to people who genuinely want to help and have done their best to explain it in a way that will get through to you.

Seriously, what advice do you expect to receive when you can't even do basic face construction correctly? Do you think there's some advice we haven't given that will make your ugly art look good? There isn't. There is ONE thing you can do to make it look better, and that's to BE A BETTER ARTIST. How can you do that? More Loomis, and a focus on fundamentals.

I'll say it one more time: The advice you want doesn't exist. You need to improve the fundamentals, there's no other answer.

[Anonymous No.4650711]

>>4649926
>that one post of anon claiming it's his drawing
Lmao what's the point

[Anonymous No.4650725]

>>4650038
When people say "loomis" they're saying to go and read the books and study the techniques and processes they teach. They're not telling you that just for the fun of it, they're telling you that because the resources in the sticky give important information for beginners.

Anyway best way to learn to draw "anime" is to just learn to draw people first then stylize however you like. Turns out what people call "anime" is just a stylized face on a semi-realistically proportioned body.
Anyway, whatever method you've been trying hasn't been working if you're not new to art, so you should be trying out whatever you can.

[Anonymous No.4650727]

>>4650172
>No one that's good at drawing would trash on someone that's starting the journey, they know how long and arduous it is.
This. Peak apex ngmi monkey behaviour. Op needed different advice then just loomis; he shouldve been directed to something like dynamic sketching and to draw more things faster and work on mileage instead of spending a week on a single head.

[Anonymous No.4651066]

>being so mad you make a seperate thread
lmao

[Anonymous No.4651075]

>>4649926
brb, gonna shitpost in asg for a bit.

[Anonymous No.4651101]

>>4649926
/Asg/ has always been this way. Let them be, if they're bickering it means they're staying in their containment thread. That's a blessing.

[Anonymous No.4651398]

>>4649978
Based

[Anonymous No.4651442]

>>4649978
Well done, we need more memes.

[Anonymous No.4651502]

Oh how will /asg/ recover from this?

[Anonymous No.4651581]

>>4650510
what's the /beg/ roadmap for learning to draw anime?
I know that fundies are very important but let's say I finished reading all the books at the sticky, the right side of the brain and keys to drawing, and let's also say I did practice some loomis' books
then what comes after?

[Anonymous No.4651616]

>>4649963
See, his problem is he thinks that drawing is comparable to reaching a destination by foot. Its not. And all the other comparisons he makes are just as retarded as this one.

[Anonymous No.4651622]

Learning how to draw anime is like trying to make a burger, you need the buns and the lettuce and onions and tomatos. But you still need to cook the burger!

[Anonymous No.4651623]

>>4651581
Keep practicing.

[Anonymous No.4651697]

>>4651581
Once you can draw decently, it's just a matter of looking at styles you like and shamelessly stealing them until the mixture looks unique. Just look at "anime" styles you like critically.

[Anonymous No.4651767]

>>4651697
I see so instead of actually copying the image itself
You would apply construction from your learnings and copy the features of the specific artstyle?

[Anonymous No.4652485]

>>4651767
that's literally what the /asg/ OP tells you to do but idiots here either don't read it or don't care because they have some boogeyman in their mind like >>4650510

[Anonymous No.4652508]

Drawing in a manner that appeals to others is more than learning how to draw a convincing circle with convincing shading, you need a sense of taste. This sense of taste extends to all aspects of life. To draw well you need to understand what makes architecture look good, what makes interior design look good, what makes clothing look good, what makes colors look good, what makes cars or guns or roads or gardens look good, ad infinitum. You NEED good taste. Most people are sub-human mutt cretins who will never have good taste, ever, because they were not raised by people with good taste and have not lived interesting enough lives to develop good taste, nor do they have any interest in fixing this.

No amount of fundamentals practice will ever matter if you have bad taste, because what you view as 'good' is actually bad. It is akin to constructing a building while strictly adhering to a rulebook, but the vision for the building in the first place was shitty garbage so it still looks like an ugly waste of space.

[Anonymous No.4652976]

>>4652508
pyw

[Anonymous No.4653189]

>>4651767
that's a good way of summarizing it, yes

[Anonymous No.4653195]

>>4650516
Krenz fucking grinded the fundies really hard though.
The guy spending a week on a head? He had pages of them in a day

[Anonymous No.4653262]

>>4653195
>Krenz fucking grinded the fundies really hard though.
I'll have to as well.

[Anonymous No.4653271]

>>4652508
>no amount of fundamentals practice will ever matter if you have bad taste
well that's just not true at all. If your drawings are fundamentally solid, even if it's just a nude, even if the character is ugly, you will still be able to see how well drawn it is. Please don't equate good taste to makeup on a whore-- it's not something tawdry, used to make something worthless appear virtuous. If you have good taste your drawings will be tasteful, if you have good fundamentals they will be technically solid. You need both.

[Anonymous No.4653516]

>>4652508
what would be an exemple of good taste for you then ?

[Anonymous No.4653525]

>>4653516
inb4 he posts anime girls

[Anonymous No.4653680]

>>4653195
All that grind and krenz's figures are still wack. The pretty colors just hide it well enough.

[Anonymous No.4654317]

>>4653680
Pyw

[Anonymous No.4654458]

I'll have to break down nicetack

[Anonymous No.4654626]

>>4649926
>be newfag
>ask how to progress art skills in a new thread
>told to practice fundies
>follow the very first tutorial in Fun With a Pencil
>angry at lack of instant improvement
>give up

>ask how to progress art skills in /asg/
>told to practice pseudo-fundies
>follow the very first tutorial with a qt waifu as the subject
>angry at instant regression
>give up

rinse and repeat

[Anonymous No.4654689]

i just want to draw anime

[Anonymous No.4654698]

>>4654626
I've never been personally called out like that before, better shut you're goddamned mouth fagola

[Anonymous No.4654708]

>>4654626
crabs are equally frustrated so they lash all their anger at fellow crabs

[Anonymous No.4654730]

>>4649926
All you fags in this thread are talking so much shit but I don't see any of you posting your work lmfao

[Anonymous No.4654738]

>>4654730
pyw

[Anonymous No.4654739]

>>4654698
>you're

[Anonymous No.4654741]

>>4654730
>seething /beg/tard

[Anonymous No.4654752]

>>4654738
>>4654741
done.

[Anonymous No.4654755]

>>4654752
>BTFO'd
you win, sir
I am sorry

[Anonymous No.4654817]

>>4654752
I kneel

[Anonymous No.4654840]

>>4654730
I posted my work, fag.

[Anonymous No.4654889]

>>4654626
How do you not notice instant improvement? When I did fun w/ a pencil, I spent a couple hours on the exercises, produced utter shit as expected from a beginner. Went to bed, next day already noticed slight improvement. After a week even, one mere week, my fun w/ a pencil exercises were significantly better.

Maybe you're too hard on yourself, or maybe you aren't being consistent with your practice.

[Anonymous No.4654896]

>>4654889
I think he's talking about literal INSTANT improvement. Like he drew one of those potato-y circle guys and didn't get immediately better and was like "alright, fuck this"

[Anonymous No.4654901]

>>4654752
lmao I'm less skilled than you but I got like 3x more followers on twatter. Guess you have to step up your marketing fundies

[Anonymous No.4654905]

>>4654901
I literally don't care I'm a hobbyist

[Anonymous No.4654927]

how long

[Anonymous No.4654933]

I summon grey sketch tranny

[Anonymous No.4654952]

>>4654933

[Anonymous No.4655351]

>>4654901
Being a coomer artist is nothing to be proud of.

[Anonymous No.4657335]

>>4655351
Says who?

[Anonymous No.4657424]

[Anonymous No.4657443]

>>4657335
imagine being such a pathetic faggot that you cant even bump your own thread without feeling ashamed so you have to larp as a random anon even though its obviously you because you contributed nothing of value that a normal anon would and the poster count didnt increase. kill yourself btw, pyw ngmi crab.

[Anonymous No.4657580]

>>4657443

[Anonymous No.4659901]

>>4657443
Why

[Anonymous No.4659983]

>>4657443
Pyw

[Anonymous No.4661128]

>>4654905
based
>>4654901
cope you put more focus into getting attention