Comics Comics Comics

[Anonymous No.4613014]

Without this thread turning into a shitfest....

What are some of the clear problems in the comics industry and how can they be fixed?
Ideally things from an art and writing point of view to keep it relevant to /ic/

[Anonymous No.4613019]

>>4613014
comics are manga for retards
they could start by not being so stiff in their poses, social justicey in their writing and juvenile in their costume designs. the plots are also boring. superhero must defeat - gasp - the supervillain. Bang, Kapowwww, your time has COME, bad guy, Kapoowwww, heh, that'll show him
2 billion dollars at the box office

[Anonymous No.4613023]

A good idea that's often brought up is removing color

The inker and penciller are the most skilled artists on the team, the color artist can be significantly weaker, and many would argue that their coloring actually weakens the art (see modern mobius colors)

It would be cheaper to print in black and white, it would be cheaper to not hire a color artist
it would be faster to get the comic out there
The price of the comic would be cheaper
More recyclable materials would be able to be used
And it would be arguably more artistically impressive to look at

The only downside is that it may make the comic appear less collectable

[Anonymous No.4613029]

Another idea I don't hear mentioned nearly as much are increasing the variety of genres

While there are popular comics for other franchises like Star Wars and Sonic the Hedgehog, these are comics based off existing series and feel more like a side project than the forefront of the brand. I believe there is hesitation to create anything truly groundbreaking about the IP they're drawing

Superheroes are the face of comics and without looking at the statistics myself I would bet that they make up the vast majority of comic sales.

I think encouraging new genres that are totally disconnected from superheroes would not only breathe a lot of fresh air into the industry but also allow for many more artists with unique preferences and styles into the comics world
Also it would attract new readers

[Anonymous No.4613043]

An issue I've found with reading comics is a feeling that there is too much focus on the art and composition and not enough focus on the pacing and flow of the story

I often find that comics are written in a way that makes me read it either way too fast or way too slow and at times the speed change can be jarring when it happens in the same issue.

The splashes and panels are beautiful to look at it, but I don't feel like I'm reading a story, I just feel like I'm looking at a comic, a series of slideshow pictures, one does not connect to the next in a smooth transition of movement but is instead a sharp cut to the next panel

[Anonymous No.4613044]

>>4613014
Well, I mean, right now their biggest problem is that they’re totally infiltrated by SJWs. The industry prior to was already in a bad spit due to being mostly dominated by DC/Marvel, but now it’s much MUCH worse.

>How to Fix
Do what Webtoons did, but add that Shounen Jump-like production. Have a monthly online magazine that pools your best creators, have them compete with each other to stay on it. But also provide a general online platform to publish comics. This way you get the best of both worlds. Volume by creating a free platform to promote, but also an exclusive publication that hires the best talent for quality content.


Too bad you’ve been beaten to the punch, as Webtoons is international, but maybe you can compete with it. But yeah, only way to save the western comics industry is to push DC/Marvel out of the way, and pool the best talent from Europe/America to produce quality content on a regular schedule.

[Anonymous No.4613047]

>>4613023
European color comics look good, the problem is the lack of a viable centralized platform for westerners that can make this a worthwhile career.

[Anonymous No.4613050]

There is too much redudant dialogue

I see alot of bubbles that say things like "I felt terrible about what happened so I went to see if she was alright" Alongside a character in a panicked state rushing towards somewhere

Was the exposition really needed? I think the panel would have been just fine without it, just have the character running and a speech bubble of him saying "..Shit!" or something

Also the dialogue used seems very much like it was written by a writer who has no actually seen the art they're beside, it's too descriptive and doesn't carry much emotion or seem to fit the figure at all. I can't imagine a real person speaking like they would in many comics

[Anonymous No.4613063]

Lack of Originiality

This is along the same lines as the lack of genres but more focussed on the system of reusing characters without end

There hundreds of re-runs, resets and spinoffs of the big superheroes like Superman, Batman and the X-men that it feels less like I'm reading a new story but instead just feels like looking at an old story with new art.

These characters cannot evolve any further, we know their personality, powers, backstory, rivals, strengths and weaknesses and all their secrets.
Even if you added a new thing to that list, it would still be a 99% complete story before you've even put pen to paper... it's boring to read

Stan Lee created most of the characters we know, infact I have heard that he has created over 1,000 characters in his lifetime (of course most of them being total flops)
There is no reason why we need to keep rehashing the same old characters, there is plenty of room to focus on new characters and make them the forefront of the industry (assuming they're well recieved of course)

[Anonymous No.4613073]

DC and Marvel needs to be dethroned. Image has a lot of fresh IPs with a pretty diverse lineup of genres and they aren't totally socjus pozzed and retarded. It might be better if more publishers like that and/or as >>4613044 says take a page from Shonen Jump and the Japanese comics market in general, since it's obviously thriving over there.

[Anonymous No.4613074]

>>4613044
I am aware of the whole SJW thing but I feel like it's a topic largely seperated from comics as an art form but is instead just corruption within the industry. It needs to go but, as artists theres not really anything we can do about that as far as I know.

Returning to the anthology system of publishing the comics as part of a larger magazine containing a large selection of different series sounds like an appealing idea. It could advertise lesser known series to people who only bought the comic for the more popular series and lead to a greater diversity of popular series. Not just a small selection at the top and all the others totally forgotten

With the rise of the internet it's clearly important to focus on that more and not get too stuck with the old ways of doing things ie print
but money is often an issue here, many people got into comics because they found a preowned comic book or they saw an interesting cover at the gas station and bought it.
When it's on the internet, it limits is exposure to only people who are intentionally looking for it.

Webcomics are a good example of this issue, the only people visiting webcomic websites are people looking for webcomics. An interesting new webcomic won't attract new people to the site unless it can advertise itself to the wider world

[Anonymous No.4613081]

I think they should move away from superheroes and infact, avoid superheroes like the plague.
Seeing buff guys in colourful spandex is an immediate redflag to anyone that this is going to be a tacky 1940s comic, even if it is a 2020 comic.
It's like hearing an old telephone ringing sound, it doesn't matter if you put the noise in a modern smartphone, the association of that sound is with old telephones and that's permenant.
For that reason nobody wants to read comics, they're already uninterested the moment they see the front cover.

[Anonymous No.4613082]

>>4613044
Web comics are a good modern approach to comics but only women read them, that's why everything is romance yaoi stuff

Also it's all mobile based which totally trashes the flow of the story and forces it to adhear to the average speed of a scrolling phone

[Anonymous No.4613088]

>>4613082
Why not just write webcomics for men then? If you make it, they will come

[Anonymous No.4613092]

>>4613014
honestly, the main problem isn't even book quality. it seems mostly on the distribution end

they really gotta get rid of diamond, then figure out a distribution system that's not completely fucked.

[Anonymous No.4613094]

>>4613092
I don't know much about comics, what's wrong with Diamond?

[Anonymous No.4613106]

>>4613094

Because of the crash that happened in the 90's, they ended up with a monopoly on comics distribution. essentially all the problems with modern comics distributiom(the fact that they're basically ghetto'd to comic shops, the reason digital comics are weirdly priced the same as physical) seems to all come back to them. There's also some shit about them sending damaged books, and forcing shops to order books they don't want iirc too.

[Anonymous No.4613111]

>>4613092
Lower the print costs by distributing on b/w only on recycled paper like the Japs do.

[Anonymous No.4613120]

How can we attract new comics fans?

I think posting a comic page by page for free on Twitter would be a good way, you could totally get like 100k followers on there if it's a really good story.
And just offer a patreon to get access a week early

[Anonymous No.4613140]

>>4613082
Read Kill 6 Billion Demons, it's rad as fuck supar violent fightan magic action and YURI, for REAL FUCKING MEN

[Anonymous No.4613155]

>>4613140
dude that sounds like something a 12 year old would be interested in

[Anonymous No.4613157]

>>4613014
The problem, as evidenced by everyone in this very thread, is marketing and distribution. There are plenty of comics being made with amazing art, amazing colors, amazing stories, etc. There is more variety than ever, you’ve got westerns, you’ve got sci-fi, you’ve got literary comics, autobiographical comics, fantasy and much much more. The problem is that no one reads comics and they have been relegated to niche status. Manga is consumed by the majority of the population and it’s not unusual to see people reading it on trains or buses. In the US comics can only really be found in dingy little comic shops and you almost never see anyone reading them. The vast majority of people know of comics through movies and other media, they usually never actually touch the comics themselves. That’s why everyone is so fixated on superheroes and that’s why, in the US, superheroes ARE comics. People don’t see comics as a unique medium for artistic expression, they just see it as a vehicle for superhero stories they can read before/after they watch the movie. The problems in the industry would sort themselves out if the other publishers figured out how to get comics in the hands of normal people. (Put them in grocery stores or supermarkets? Sell them at video game stores? Etc) If you took the best mangaka and told them to start from scratch in the US most of them would not make it and those that did would be way less famous. The American industry has no room for a Toriyama an Inoue or an Otomo.

[Anonymous No.4613174]

I'm too lazy to do so but a few days ago we had a comic thread snd I made like 3 big walls of text posts detailing, from my studies, why the industry is shit in America, anyone care to repost?

[Anonymous No.4613176]

>>4613157
People don't even buy physical videogames at stores anymore, I suggest we go full in on the digital market, it's only a matter of time until literally everything is ordered online and physical comics will be as a thing of the past as horses are for travelling

[Anonymous No.4613177]

>>4613174
Sure go ahead, if it'll incite interesting discussion

[Anonymous No.4613178]

>>4613174
No. If you want to repost it go find it yourself.

[Anonymous No.4613181]

>>4613176
Comics are simply too easy to pirate. They're literally just pngs. There's no way to prevent someone just buy them then uploading them for free since filesizes are tiny and there's minimal risk for anyone. The only choice is to distribute for free yourself and hope people are generous enough to donate, or sell merch.

[Anonymous No.4613186]

>>4613174
you mean this?:
>>4582660

[Anonymous No.4613200]

>>4613186
Yeah, and >>4582935

[Anonymous No.4613212]

>>4613176
>>4613181
Anon who posted those big POS in the other thread again.

Fixing the industry is simple, the problem is all the people in charge are actual retarded boomers obsessed with the 90s.

Let comic book shops die, print off Jump style anthologies for big chain supermarkets, and have some kind of Netflix style digital service across PC and mobile, with free back catalogs and incentives like early access shit and behind the scenes stuff. Like the shit would work, Marvel and DC and even Image have enough money that they could force I to work, but they're so fucking stupid they want to keep pandering to dying niche magazine shops nobody fucking knows how to find.

Gabe Newell said once piracy is a service problem. Make it more convenient, faster, and easier to read comics legally on some sub platform than to load up readcomiconline and people will use it.

Also don't bitch when your shit gets more reads on a pirate site if it's 10 years old and isn't on any digital platform or in print. God that guy is stupid.

[Anonymous No.4613304]

>>4613120
That’s a dumb idea, anyone who would be interested likely already reads manga. You attract more comic fans by creating quality content and making it readily available to most people.

[Anonymous No.4613323]

>>4613186
>>4613200
>>4613212
Can’t say I disagree with any of those posts. I’ve actually argued similar things with comicfags who get butthurt asking me why I’m making manga instead, but simply put, Japan’s industry is much better. Marvel/DC + Disney do a good job showcasing why copyright law is utterly retarded, as it’s because of that, that those old fossils are still around and hampering smaller creators when they should have long since died. The people responsible for creating Batman, and Superman, and Spiderman and Mickey Mouse are all dead, and the people in charge should have no right of ownership. And this has nothing to do with me wanting to use any of those characters, it’s got everything to do with taking exclusivity away from those titans so fresh new ideas can take over instead. IP and companies should both be allowed to DIE so fresh new blood with brand new ideas can grow. End of story. Copyright law 100% needs to be reworked. There is no argument against this.

[Anonymous No.4613340]

>>4613047
The difference with Euro comics is that in most cases the colourist will work with inker together to make the decent colours. As a result inks are much more regularly made to accommodate for colouring from the start.

[Anonymous No.4613341]

I think more artists capable of drawing appealing things and colouring that is actually good would actually be an important factor. Pic related is supposed to be one of the best american comics in general, but after being used to the soulful backgrounds and expressivity of Yotsuba&! and the fantastic watercolor colors of Blacksad, it just looks boring and off-putting as shit to me.

[Anonymous No.4613403]

>>4613212
>>4613323
You both made me realize the hash reality of how difficult it is to create something that will reach a wide audience here in the west, and I'm way past the point where I can change my whole life to move to another country. Maybe I've been too naive to simply think that if I write an amazing story with beautiful art, it'll somehow get known.

[Anonymous No.4613405]

>>4613403
It's still very possible to succeed, you just need to be smart about making the existence of your comic known.

[Anonymous No.4613412]

>>4613403
It’s possible to succeed, you’re just forced to go indie, and build a following online. Some people don’t have the patience for that, I certainly didn’t, but it’s possible.

[Anonymous No.4613425]

>>4613405
Yeah, I haven't given up, just need to make a new strategy.
>>4613412
As a start, it's better than nothing. I'll just have to let go any aspiration for wide audience appeal for now. It can happen, but if it does, it'll be purely accidental. Either way, I'll just have to give my best.

[Anonymous No.4613433]

>>4613014
American comics flooding the pure comic market with generic shit

[Anonymous No.4613440]

>>4613023
How come I never noticed how many people shoot energy blasts in western comics until years after I got into dragonball?

[Anonymous No.4613456]

>>4613014
>What are some of the clear problems in the comics industry and how can they be fixed?
In my opinion, this is the main problem: the writing sucks.

The reason it sucks is not because they don't have capable people writing the stories, it's because of the framework that those stories operate in.

Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc. have been existing for 1000 years, and DC and Marvel want to keep them alive because they see them as cash cows. Therefore nothing ever truly happens. For example, death is a joke: when you read a title like "The death of Superman" you just know it's bullshit, they'll pull something out of their ass to revive him later.

The characters don't have a purpose, there's no plot, and no theme (except when some good writer is assigned to write a more or less self contained run, like Frank Miller with The Dark Knight Returns). The GOOD mangas, on the other hand, don't suffer from this problem: authors often come up with a story that has a beginning and an end, with characters that serve a purpose.

[Anonymous No.4613458]

>>4613023
>The only downside is that it may make the comic appear less collectable
how is that a downside?
The comic industry wanting the comics themselves to be collectable is, in my opinion, a big part of the problem. Look at manga (and to a lesser extent european stuff), stuff like variant covers, re-booted series to get a new issue #1, and other artificial shenanigans to be "collectable" are virtually non-existent.
Old comics are collectable, not because they were created to be, but because their stories (and art) made them cultural icons and landmarks.

[Anonymous No.4613482]

>>4613456
>The GOOD mangas, on the other hand, don't suffer from this problem: authors often come up with a story that has a beginning and an end, with characters that serve a purpose.
That's one of the main selling point of good manga. Except for the very, very casual slice-of-life stuff, most manga will actualy state their goals right away.
Goku follows Bulma because she wants to collect the Dragon Balls. Luffy wants to find the One Piece. Naruto wants to become Hokage. Light wants to bring the world peace. Kaguya wants to date Shirogane. Komi-san wants to make friends.
Complex goals, simple goals, doesn't matter, as long as there is a goal, but more importantly, an active goal. They are active protagonists, they have to work toward the goal, and if the goal is reached it can be updated.
Meanwhile, american superhero protagonists are passive. They react to exterior threats. What's the endgoal of Spiderman, Batman or Superman? They don't have clear long-term objectives. Exception being origin stories, where the goal is becoming the hero, which is why they're often the most interesting.

I follow someone that provides insight on american comic on youtube, and he recently got talked into reviewing my hero academia, since it is also super-hero themed. So he picked out the latest chapter and reviewed it like an american comic. And he said that it was bad because it was impossible to appreciate it without have read the story from the beginning... but that's exactly the point. No normal reader would pick up a manga at chapter 159 and expect to be able to uderstand it right away, yet comics and european stuff work that way. In manga if you want to pick up a random thing, pick up a random #1, there's always new stuff floating around, meanwhile comics very rarely have brand new stuff.

[Anonymous No.4613488]

>>4613323
The irony is that both Batman and Superman would have been public domain already since 2013 if it wasn't for the kikes at Disney lobbying to extend copyright by 20 years back in the 90s so they could domain squat some more.

Hell in fact, copyright was originally 27 years after creation, and then it got extended to 50 years after the creator's death. Then Disney made it like 70 whatever well after Walt was dead already.

Can you imagine if Batman was public domain? Can you imagine if Japs were able to makes fucking BATMAN manga without any restraints?

If people made enough of a huss over it, it might be possible to revoke the extensions back to just 27 years after publication (which is imo the most fair, kids aren't gonna do shit with an IP it's been proven time and again, and they should be forced to compete with everyone else if they wanna make MORE money off it) once Boomers start dropping like flies and finally leaving congress.

It's pretty much self-evident now that Copyright now does nothing but stifle creativity rather than promote it.

[Anonymous No.4613494]

>>4613014
Forbid Americans to draw comics. Here, problem solved.

[Anonymous No.4613505]

>>4613482
>And he said that it was bad because it was impossible to appreciate it without have read the story from the beginning... but that's exactly the point.
Exactly. Maybe that's a bad thing from the perspective of getting dumb kids with low attention span interested in buying the next issue, but it's what you have to do if you want to create a worthwhile work of art.

Comics, mangas, whatever, should all be like novels. Every good manga is basically a long novel.

[Anonymous No.4613511]

>>4613482
>Goku follows Bulma because she wants to collect the Dragon Balls.

There is no goal in Dragon Ball after Raditz shows up tho. It's just evil guys who are evil because they are evil trying to destroy the world. And after Namek death has literally 0 impact with the second pair of balls and Goku's fast travel. So it's not like the nips don't milk their massive franchises to death.

[Anonymous No.4613517]

>>4613511
>So it's not like the nips don't milk their massive franchises to death.
This is true. But the good ones don't. I'm thinking about Vagabond, Gantz... Dragon Ball on the other hand definitely turned into some america style bullshit.

[Anonymous No.4613527]

>>4613517
>Gantz
Yeah, all those ESPs, vampires, and very tangentially related Disaster with retarded ending.
Good manga, not milked to death, sure.

[Anonymous No.4613529]

>>4613511
Yes, and no.
Yes, because it is true, the characters after that point were more passive and started reacting to outside events instead of causing them. Radditz, the androids and Buu are prime examples: they show up out of nowhere just for the sake of being new threats to fight.
Frieza though was still an organic villain. He came from the fact that he was an obstacle in the path of the goal (which was getting the Namek Balls to revive people), not just a random threat that popped up, so he was better than the others on that front.
But worse than that in my opinion, is that dragon ball became 100% gimmicky. New villain of the week, training, new form/gimmick, victory, repeat.

[Anonymous No.4613530]

>>4613517
Anon you're really bad at picking examples. There's a huge amount of fantastic manga that ended without overstaying their welcome, and somehow you pick either unfinished or very drawn out series.

[Anonymous No.4613531]

>>4613527
Yes, it's a very good manga and it was not milked to death. Having supernatural things doesn't make it bad. That has nothing to do with it. We are talking about the plot, themes etc. here.

[Anonymous No.4613532]

>>4613530
I stand by both examples I picked. I think they're both very good.

[Anonymous No.4613536]

>>4613531
>We are talking about the plot
That's the point, brainlet. Plot in Gantz is a mess mostly because it is artificially extended with vampires and all the other shit.
Also
>Gantz is very good
you need to be 18 to post here, kiddo

[Anonymous No.4613538]

>>4613536
I disagree. There you go, retard.

[Anonymous No.4613540]

>>4613532
Not very good for proving your point, though.

Blame!, Kokou no Hito, all of Satoshi Mizukami's work... I could go on but my point is there's much better examples to compare contrast with the west's approach to IPs.

[Anonymous No.4613548]

>>4613014
>to keep it relevant to /ic/
it never will be.

[Anonymous No.4613557]

>>4613456
Your problem lies with marvel and DC stuff. The best comics have better writing than the best manga imo. Manga usually has better art but the stories are written for teenagers or young adults and almost always lack depth. I can’t think of any mangaka who write on the level of Alan Moore. Asterios Polyp is another example of good writing that you won’t find in manga. I think Fukomoto is one of the better writers but even his stuff is filled with goofy nonsense that waters down his story. One of his manga is about the life of a construction worker, a good American writer (like Harvey Pekar) would explore this life truthfully and honestly and try to come upon something profound. Fukomoto starts off well enough but then has the MC start battling high schoolers, introduces Yakuza, etc and makes it too over the top. Even Vagabond (which is based on a novel) doesn’t quite match up to something like From Hell.

[Anonymous No.4613581]

>>4613557
>the level of Alan Moore
Alan Moore is trash to me, but hey

[Anonymous No.4613589]

>>4613557
>Manga usually has better art but the stories are written for teenagers or young adults and almost always lack depth
The fuck are you talking about? You know more than shounen manga exists, right?

>One of his manga is about the life of a construction worker, a good American writer (like Harvey Pekar) would explore this life truthfully and honestly and try to come upon something profound
1. It's, foremost, a comedy
2. It's fucking IS profound. Did you not finish it? Did you miss all the monologues about wasted youth and regretting life, having dreams and so on? Did you miss the whole "samurai in a modern age" subtext?
3. What fucking Yakuza? He beats up punks, yes, to highlight the conflict between youth and aged and to convey the concept of him finding his place on a moder day battlefield. Please don't tell me you're talking about the godawful sequel.

[Anonymous No.4613592]

Why must these threads always see that one butthurt autistic /co/fag that pushes me more and more towards hating comics with every fucking post he makes. Can this idiot be range-banned already?

[Anonymous No.4613604]

>>4613592
Just start hating comics, anon. They are shit anyway.

[Anonymous No.4613605]

>>4613592
Cringe desu

[Anonymous No.4613625]

>>4613014
We’ve had a dozen of these threads in the past week and all of them have turned into a manga vs comics spergfest. The thread topic was about comics but the weebs started slinging shit. One of the other threads was about manga and the /co/fags did the same.

[Anonymous No.4613685]

>>4613625
The solution is honestly very simple. I still stick by copyright being the biggest perpetrator here. Makes all the capeshit cashcows with dead creators public domain, and then tell Marvel and DC to run the Shounen Jump model and host contests with hefty cash prizes and a promise of monthly serialization to scout talent with brand new original ideas.

Also, as an aside, get rid of the stupid Writer, Penciler, Inker, Colorist, Letterer model, it makes their comics look like ass. It should be writer, lead artist, and assistants (background, colors, etc...). Whoever pencils also inks, and the lead artist works like an art director, guiding the other artists under a singular vision to ensure the finished look is clean.

[Anonymous No.4613686]

>>4613685
Oh, I should also add that, ofc, none of those will ever happen, so... fuck it. At least Superman will be public domain next decade. Unless that kike mouse lobbies for copyright extension again.

[Anonymous No.4613689]

>>4613685
Exactly this. That would fix both the writing and the visual art.

However, I would say that I wouldn't necessarily have the "Whoever pencils also inks" thing. There's no need to have an inking process if the artist doesn't want to, specially today with digital tools.

[Anonymous No.4613698]

>>4613689
That’s fair enough, but at least have a head “art director” keeping all the grunts in line so it doesn’t look like ass.

[Anonymous No.4613710]

>>4613403
Anon, here's the thing

You, a single individual, have the ability to do what literally every fucking western comic producer has failed to do in the last 30 years.


PROMOTION.

MARKETING.

EXPERIMENTAL RELEASE AVENUES.

Ed Piskor, of Hip Hop Family Tree game, just made shit, there it on a site that automatically publically posted it to a public need board thing, and he's still riding off the success of that even now. He's doing it again with Red Room on his YouTube channel and apparently has already gotten Hollywood licensing offers.

Literally just fucking promote it just a little bit. Just to any degree. None of them do.

It's just Piskor, McFarlane, and some of the IndieGoGo guys, those are the only ones actually bothering trying to market their shit. It's actually embarrassing how easy it would be

[Anonymous No.4613712]

>>4613698
Yes of course, the main author calls the shots and then maybe he has assistants to help him, but basically one guy does the main drawing and makes the decisions on everything, including colors (if it's colored) etc.

[Anonymous No.4613716]

*AHEM*
FUCK BURGER KEKMICS

[Anonymous No.4613723]

>>4613403
>Maybe I've been too naive to simply think that if I write an amazing story with beautiful art, it'll somehow get known.
It WILL get known. If you're good enough, it will get known. Post it online and then shill it everywhere.

The hard part is making the great thing, not marketing it.

[Anonymous No.4613726]

>>4613014
>What are some of the clear problems in the comics industry
It's not manga
>and how can they be fixed?
Let it die and import manga instead

[Anonymous No.4613766]

>>4613155
yes, young boys. there aren't a lot of adults reading webcomics. they have income and they use that to buy videogames, maintain a netflix subscription and so on. webcomics as a medium is aimed at kids. it's something you read while commuting to and from school, when you don't have internet. right now there's mountains of romance and cutesy sol for girls, but not much shonen, mindgame battle of wits bs or crude humor aimed at boys, so that's the niche you may want to aim for.

[Anonymous No.4613771]

>>4613050
I can't believe that exposition is real

[Anonymous No.4613963]

>>4613458
Fucking this. This collectible shit has little benefit and fucks up A LOT of other things. It just harms comics as a whole. It's so fucking insincere and artificial. Comics become collectible because they become icons and landmarks like you said, not because of some reboot or alternate cover bullshit. Is the comics industry gonna make profitable comics or collectible shit for boomers?

[Anonymous No.4613973]

>>4613023
I do agree that sometimes colorists can flatten art such as this all while elevating some art.

[Anonymous No.4613986]

>>4613511
Granted that DBZ was supposed to focus on Gohna instead, but ultimately Goku wants to be the strongest and fight strong opponents.

[Anonymous No.4613987]

>>4613014
no money in comics
can't be fixed
/thread

[Anonymous No.4613988]

>>4613710
Will do, thank you. I'll remember it in some years.
>>4613723
>The hard part is making the great thing, not marketing it.
Absolutely, and that's why I'm in no hurry. But as my end goal is to make medium to long stories, I want to have an accurate expectation about my possible reach. I'm not American, and my country's comic market is geared towards children, so I'll have to focus on the global market.

[Anonymous No.4614033]

>>4613014

>overused IPs
It's mostly the same 30-60+ year old IPs and characters that have been wanked to death and back. Stan Lee (Lieber), Jack Kirby (Kurtzburg), Larry Lieber, Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, and others made most of the popular capeshit characters we see today. The characters are fine for putting on merch like t-shirts but I think it's safe to say that very few people are genuinely interested in what's gonna happen with Hulk or Superman next, story-wise. They need to always have a fresh set of IPs coming through. Not remakes or reboots. New IPs = potential new audiences.

>printing and distribution
Diamond Distributors essentially has a monopoly on comics. They have a retarded preorder system for comic shops, and simply refuse to really embrace other ways of getting comics read by people. Who in their right mind is going to go to some weird comic shop to buy a single issue of Batman for 8 fucking dollars? Or worse yet, Squirrel Girl or some shit? Comics need to be cheap and accessible.

[Anonymous No.4616103]

ok boomer

[Anonymous No.4616741]

>>4613766
>but not much shonen, mindgame battle of wits bs or crude humor aimed at boys, so that's the niche you may want to aim for.
...Are you sure about that?...
I mean, my story is going a little in that direction, but still, I doubt about this one.

[Anonymous No.4619608]

>>4613686
>Superman will be public domain next decade
sheeeeet man

[Anonymous No.4619627]

>>4613023
Colors aren't bad, it's just for whatever reason they pick the lamest/ugliest fucking color pallets. Apparently they think it's good considering they rid-did The Killing Joke

[Anonymous No.4619648]

They could start off by actually making appealing stories and new characters instead of re-hashing the same cape dudes. I dont understand why the comic book industry cant just adapt and realize that comics are the perfect medium for one creator to tell a story they want to tell without needed a massive fucking budget to even make it happen. They need to tread new ground and show more new shit to the world instead of re-hashing the same popular garbage over and over

[Anonymous No.4619678]

>>4613482
>So he picked out the latest chapter and reviewed it like an american comic. And he said that it was bad because it was impossible to appreciate it without have read the story from the beginning...


What the heck? This is the same as saying "yeah this movie is bad because i skipped the entire first hour and i don't know that's going on" or "i opened this book at page 200 and i don't get that's happening". The chapters have a number FOR A REASON. I could not think of enjoying something that just keeps repeating itself over and over again for 70+ years and finding it funny anymore.

But if this is the way they want it, well, let them...

[Anonymous No.4619762]

>>4613014
How to show my art to Marvel and DC.
Both companies got rid of allowing artists to send in samples of work for a submissions editor to look at. I heard they hardly hired anyone that way anyway, so maybe that is whyh they got rid of it, but I literally have no way of showing my stuff to Marvel or DC, or most other comic publishers.

They say artists should attend comic book conventions and hunt down company editors to show them portfolios, but I live a huge way away from any conventions, and to drop a ton of money on travel expense, hotels and convention tickets just to show a guy my portfolio for 10 minutes is bullshit.

It has never been harder to break into the industry, waiting for some guy from a company to run across my portfolio on social media is bullshit, nobody from the companies is doing that.

[Anonymous No.4619887]

>>4619762
This may sound dumb but are you sure you want to work for Marvel/DC? All i hear from them is that DC is not doing great and Marvel sales are going downhill compared to japs stuff that enters the US. Sure, they are the big ones, but with the big salaries that they have to pay to these tier artist I don't think going to them is as good as it was before (unless you are a top tier artist who has a name outside of comic industry).

I'm not trying to discourage you, just look for another options before you pay a expensive hotel room and do a 5 hour line for a 5 minute review.

[Anonymous No.4619998]

the problem with the comics industry is the sheer amount of time it takes.
It really does need to be done by a team, rather than a writer and artist.
you wouldn't go hiring someone to make a mmovie for you and expect one person to make it for you. even if it only required one actor you wouldn't expect the cameraman to be the actor and producer and director

I draw comics for cash and its torture
I probably get paid 1/3 of what I get paid on regular illustraiton jobs, and I still charge 75 dollars per page just for line art. I still end up spending like 12 hours drawing it. I'm such a sucker. Its really hard bro.

[Anonymous No.4620002]

>>4613023
I prefer the look of B&W, but the artwork that is normally done for Western comics isn't mean to be black and white so it isn't drawn in a way where its clear without color.
Like in this page its not immediately apparent where everyone is, obviously you figure it out after a second of looking but your eye just doesn't flow thorugh the page as well.
I agree that removing color for the most part is a good idea, but it shouldn't be done without changing the style slightly, perhaps adding screentones, patches of solid hatching or grays like in manga.

[Anonymous No.4620009]

>>4619627
The previous colors are FAR superior. Even if they are exageratted, the whole story takes place in a circus with neon lights and such....how is it that unrealistic? Why make it so drab and boring?
The bright colors of the original create a better emotional response and work better for the character. I can't believe they would redo this, its such a shame so many people wont know what it was origially to look like because they'll pick up the new printed copy

The only thing going for the right side is the use of spot coloring to make certain things stand out (the red hood, his green hair) but it almost seems obnoxious.
it makes sense, Brian Bolland is one of the greatest pencilers i've ever seen, good draftsmen make poor painters.

[Anonymous No.4620013]

>>4619762
Why haven't you thought of just working your way up in the industry? Don't you know there are many other publishers?
Sheesh, you'd be lucky to get into Image Comics and they state that they look at new comics, but even they are so big you'd be lucky they'd bat an eye at you.
Try looking to more indy publishers first and get noticed that way.

[Anonymous No.4620116]

>>4619998
I dig the retro look there

[Anonymous No.4620118]

>"You cannot do creative work and expect success. You aren't really leading a proper creative life if you do it with your only goal being for it to be successful," he said. "You've got to have a story that's burning inside of you that hurts until it comes out."

[Anonymous No.4620327]

>>4613212
Agreed. I've always wanted to read comics printed in tankobon-style books that are small enough to hold in my hand or fit in my coat pocket.

[Anonymous No.4620438]

>>4619998
It’s not a problem, people just need to treat it like a regular studio job. One person can easily write it and be the lead artist in charge of character designs and the rough draft, and then hire a team of artists to do all the heavy lifting like you would for any studio type work, be it film, tv, animation, etc...

5 guys working 8 hours a day 5 days a week can easily crank out like 100 pages a month. That’s 1 page done in 8 hours per person, totally doable.

The problem is that it’s not PROFITABLE in the west. Secondly, finding talent to work with is even more difficult.

Say you pay those 5 artists minimum wage cause they’re all rookies, that’s still over $5000 a month you gotta spend to churn out pages. Definitely doable, as it’s no different from many other business owners, but, is it viably profitable? Problem is, no it’s not, and to build that, you gotta bust your ass off from nothing to make it profitable, god knows how long.

[Anonymous No.4620651]

>>4613044
>Do what Webtoons did
That doesn't make sense. The quality output you're expecting won't happen with that timeframe, nor is the market there to sustain/pay the Multiple People required in western comics to get a thing put together. And you want to add the (greatly troublesome) readerpopularity poll on top??

[Anonymous No.4620671]

>>4620651
It’d be possible if it’s backed by a big name like Marvel, but that’ll never happen. Honestly, the medium is dead in the west.

[Anonymous No.4620895]

>>4613482
>picks up a manga 150+ chapters in
>complains he doesn't know what's going on
Looks like capeshit has rotted his brain. He can't even read shit in chronological order anymore.

[Anonymous No.4620917]

>>4619762
does working for marvel or dc sound appealing to you? seriously

[Anonymous No.4620919]

>>4613014
>Without this thread turning into a shitfest....

Lmaooooo

[Anonymous No.4620956]

>>4613771
Welcome to Tom King Batman. Suffer like the rest of us,

[Anonymous No.4620965]

>>4613050
Should have read
>"Yo Gotham you dumb bitch. Surrender or I'll laser beam up your asshole."

[Anonymous No.4622314]

>>4620438
Finding talent is hard. Honestly I dropped a job because they weren't paying me enough and they were a frustrating client to work with. As a nice gesture I offered to try to look for someone else who could do the job....I couldn't find shit.
Either people are okay at illustrating but don't have any examples of comic pages, or they just suck at drawing in general. Its incredible. This industry is only over saturated if you're an dunning kruger who just draws pictures of celebrties or traces anime pics

[Anonymous No.4622425]

>>4622314
Drawing comics/manga takes significantly more skill than being an illustrator. Most illustrators can get by drawing portraits and pin-up, and tracing over 3D models. None of that is viable for comics. 3D models are too slow/inefficient, and you still gotta know how to draw: props, machines, buildings, scenery, figures, etc... from basically any camera angle and perspective, and more importantly, know HOW to use it all to properly communicate with a reader. It’s on a whole different tier, it’s why talent is so scarce. Knowing how to draw cute anime girls simply isn’t enough.

And yeah, my experience has been the same. I don’t even look for commissions, I get clients come to me all the time because there’s not many people capable of doing this sort of work competently. Which is good, cause you can charge higher prices as a result, and have way more room to negotiate.

[Anonymous No.4622535]

>>4619762
Maybe try working for a smaller publisher first like IDW or Boom

[Anonymous No.4622979]

>>4613341
Evan Rachel Wood face AND hair from her emmys appearance.

[Anonymous No.4622988]

>>4613341

[Anonymous No.4623657]

>>4622425
>Drawing comics/manga takes significantly more skill than being an illustrator
This is so true. Comics are a whole different monster compared to just plain illustration. I've seen illustrator types try to make comics/manga and they get their shit pushed in figuritively. Comic drawing is something that you have to specifically practice, not just illustrating in general.

[Anonymous No.4624123]

>>4613023
Dc did a 3 book anthology called Batman: Black and White, multiple short stories of Batman across multiple years put in black and white ink. You get to see the artists work in another way that's ignored when these stories. I've even reread some of the stories in color and they're a drop in quality. 100% recommend

[Anonymous No.4624128]

>>4624123
*that's ignored when these stories are in color

[Anonymous No.4624290]

>>4613014
The JSW is the fucking problem

[Anonymous No.4624508]

>>4624290
Justice Society of Wamerica?

[Anonymous No.4626818]

>>4624123
I love DC's "Noir" and "Unwrapped" series; they're great.