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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique


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4547998 No.4547998 [Reply] [Original]

Anyone here think he or his advice is good?

>> No.4548035

Wish he'd get to the damn point instead of pissing away half an hour with shitty jokes.

>> No.4548043

>>4547998
Cringe, usless and retarded.

>> No.4548047

trying really hard to imitate pewdiepie who is trying really hard to imitate filthyfrank/iddubz/maxmoefo

It's a circle of zoomer cringe.

>> No.4548048

He's fine. He gives actual advice, but you need to be able to catch on to it.

>> No.4548055

>>4547998
His persona is painfully obnoxious, but when he’s actually being serious his advice isn’t bad. I’ve only watched like three of his videos though because I honestly can’t stand him.

>> No.4548077

I cant stomach his videos, hes such a tryhard

>> No.4548079

>>4548035
yea im sick of proko too

>> No.4548103
File: 139 KB, 380x190, angelganev.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4548103

I also hate him. Jesus. Give us someone normal.

>> No.4548223

he's over the top but that's just business. give me Ethan over Jizza any day of the week

>> No.4548225

his advice is secondary grapevine shit from the greats anyway

>> No.4548241

>>4548047
>biggest yt trying to imitate literal incels

either way, cringe

>> No.4548243

Filthy frank, idubbz, and maxmofo are all copies of namasensei

>> No.4548281

>>4548241
Yes. Pewdiepie rebranded his channel around 2016-2017 when he got sick of screaming like a faggot at horror games and started doing edgy skits that emulate the exact style of FilthyFrank, which was at its peak at the time.

Pewdiepie's explosion in subscriber count was entirely a matter of being in the right place at the right time when both zoomers and millenials started heavily using reddit and the dankmeme normie shit started blowing up. They memed him to 100 million subscriber count even though literally 99% of those subscribers didn't give a fuck about pewdiepie and just did it to get upvotes and participate in the epic reddit circlejerk.

>> No.4548339

post his gay art

>> No.4548344

>>4547998
No swag and his youtube persona is annoying as shit. Good advice though most of the time.

>> No.4548354
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4548354

>>4548339

>> No.4548355
File: 48 KB, 640x640, 87740791_493872044636679_1579421870571978260_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4548355

>>4548354

>> No.4548356
File: 157 KB, 1280x1148, tumblr_pz1eph9qnK1u0yw5so1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4548356

>>4548355

>> No.4548363

>>4548103
I like Angel!

>> No.4548397

I may have to re-watch the videos in order to get his point sometimes, but he has really solid advice. It's actually helped me progress or think about things differently.

>> No.4548413
File: 65 KB, 1080x608, sks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4548413

>>4547998
his advice is terrible, his art is boring and gay, whatever

>> No.4548421

>>4548355
>>4548356
This reminds me of that RCDart guy

>> No.4548453

I like him. Entertaining and he gives some good studying methods and feedback. Also a big advocate of no rules only tools, which I down with.

>> No.4548547

>>4547998
yes most of his advice is useful, people here shit in everything, now nobody can take you all seriously, suck my dick

>> No.4548721

>>4547998
Very cute and fun and a good teacher.

>> No.4548749

>>4547998
ask yourself man.
do you like his art? i hate it. so i ignore him. it's that simple.
you don't have to verify whether every shitty artist is giving out good advice or not, just study and follow the artists who do the stuff that you want to do.
i don't mean to pick on you, i just don't get the /ic/ mentality of looking for some consensus on whether someone's good or worth listening to or whatever.
you've got your own taste and goals, so listen to them instead of what random people on here say. random people who may have (in your opinion) totally shitty tastes and completely different goals from yourself.

>> No.4548829

>>4547998
He’s great for beginners to watch. He gives the right pointers, and his delivery is entertaining. Though, he’s not a phenomenal teacher in regard to the more technical stuff. I’m sure he’s a great motivator for people lower in skill, which I’m sure is his intended audience.

>>4548055
>>4548035
>>4548043
>>4548077
>>4548103
Only insecure losers feel about manly men being straightforward with them. Just saying. I’ll take Ethan over that rainbow flavored candyass Ross Draws or whatever.

>> No.4548904

I like him.

>> No.4548924

I am genuinely entertained by his videos but I don't stick around for long

>> No.4548942

>>4547998
Who is it and why should I care?

>> No.4548961
File: 669 KB, 750x742, D1poi7CUYAAlK15.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4548961

>>4547998
He can't give any advice because this spastic clown tries so hard to be funny that he forgets to talk about art.

>> No.4548962

>>4548942
Art chad, and cause you’re a /beg/ and need guidance.

>> No.4548972

yeah he's pretty good

>> No.4548979

i made another thread about the youtuber xD

>> No.4549010
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4549010

>>4548829
>you don't like Ethan Becker that means you like Ross Draws

>> No.4549021

>>4547998
I've seen only one of his video where he claims you should never draw from imagination, so just assume he's a retard

>> No.4549025

I really want him to call me stupid and sit on my face

>> No.4549124

>>4547998
built for BBC

>> No.4549821

Dropped a new vid

https://youtu.be/FxoTwEdbbgQ

>> No.4549912

>>4549821
god that man is not for /ic/, autists don't understand subtext and sarcasm

>> No.4549946

>>4549912
I think the problem is the type he has which is that type that pewdiepie and filthyfrank have which became overwhelming because everyone is trying to do. That "shouty hipster le random camera cut" style is the only way I suppose you could describe it.

>> No.4549951

>>4547998
Embodiment of everything I hate

>> No.4549958

>>4548355
Now THIS one I refuse to believe is real, like holy fuck.

>> No.4549962

>>4549946
yeah but reacting to the manner and not content is a very brainlet thing to do and /ic/ wants excuses to never learn
he could be a dildo gobbler and still speak useful truth

>> No.4549966

>>4548035
This is the issue with most modern YouTube, I blame zoomers attention spawn.

>> No.4549976

>>4549962
He doesn't speak useful truth, if you want to be a good artist.

>> No.4549999

>>4549962
>reacting to the manner and not content
the manner itself is part of his content brainlet
if he did it in bits a pieces it would be fine but since he does it too much it is overplayed and distracting
that being said yes he does give good advice

>> No.4550024

>>4549999
>it is overplayed and distracting

this is like complaining about the bad rip of week 4 of Steven Hampton's analytical figure drawing 2 though
it's on you to focus and step through the shit

> the manner itself is part of his content brainlet

of his video content sure, but not of what he teaches
no amount of sperging over his dog or broken cigarette has any instruction merit, he just does it to whore out for zoomer views

>> No.4550029

>>4548103
> not liking based twerking homophobic slav brainlet art god

>> No.4550065

>>4548829
>ethan
>manly

>> No.4550180

>>4547998
Whenever he's at least a little bit serious he's easily one of the better teachers out there, because he tells you straight up what you're supposed to do and what you're not supposed to do.
He should skip very long comedy bits, if i wanted to watch a funny man i would google funny man.

>> No.4550280

>>4548223
at least jazza isn't a self-important cunt

>> No.4550284

>>4550280
> i don't like this guy, his character is really smelly!
> noo don't rustle my jimmies!! i don't want to learn from you i don't like you

ok tumblr

>> No.4550717

>>4548829
I don't think is meant for beginners. Like, yeah, he gives some tips that are useful at any level like those about form and 3d space, but then he has videos about story telling, composition, storyboard breakdowns, and so on. And you need the base of anatomy and perspective before breaking down photos or the work of professional artists.

I think his videos are more aimed to people who is already settled to work on animation/storyboards and started their path, given his background. They are more like bullet points made videos, with an over the top persona and name dropping to grab more views. I dont dislike it, but some are really dumb, like the video of loish hands.What the fuck was that.

>> No.4550726
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4550726

how would any of you know if he is a good teacher or not if all of you just shitpost on ic and don't even draw in the first place kek

>> No.4550746

>>4548356
Why is he so obsessed with black people? Never seen a white guy do this, he draws like a roastie tumblroid looking for pc brownie points

>> No.4550784

>>4549912
It's fine in short bursts, but it does come across as arrogant after a while. Especially when you can spot the mistakes in his own redlining

>> No.4551091
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4551091

>>4550726
You don't need to be a chef to know some cooking tastes bad.

He can't draw much besides black people heads floating in space, cartooned from reference.

I don't care about his personality or sarcasm or whatever. The end result is all that matters. And his result is just gross.

>> No.4551176 [DELETED] 

>>4551091
The guy makes clickbait videos and has a fetish for brown chicks with square asses, but let's not pretend he wasn't a background illustrator, prop design artist, and a full-scene storyboard animator for several different studios.

>> No.4551193

>>4548355
thicc

>> No.4551201

>>4548829
>manly men being straightforward with them
you are delusional if that’s what you think Pewdrawpie is or does.

>> No.4551256

>>4550746

Its not blacks per se, but exaggerate features that make it easy to symbol-draw and replicate. The exaggerated box logic of his figures is also easier to read than more nuanced anatomical drawings.
Tumblr loves using these types symbols because many of them cant draw for beans, and use them as substitutes for advanced anatomical knowledge.

Also, how is this thread even visible to me. I thought I blocked this dudes name.

>> No.4551257

>>4550746
It's probably just an american industrial standard by now

>> No.4551304

>>4547998
built for BBC

>> No.4551449

>please IC tell me how should I think about this because I dont have a brain or cant make judgementson my own

>> No.4551573
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4551573

>>4548829
>most of the comments were criticizing him for not getting to the point
>durr hurr u hate him for being straightforward
I'm sorry for hurting artCHAD's fweelwings with mean words :(((
nah eat shit simp
>>4548339
>>4548356
didn't this guy draw a loli getting raped, it was violent with her hand getting stabbed to tie her down. how he's still surviving with being an e-celeb is beyond me.

>> No.4551651
File: 626 KB, 780x452, ethan-becker-03.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4551651

>>4551091
>He can't draw much besides black people heads floating in space

The guy makes clickbait videos and has a fetish for brown chicks with square asses, but let's not pretend he wasn't a background illustrator, prop design artist, and a full-scene storyboard animator for several big studios.

>> No.4551657

>>4547998
It's for kids

>> No.4551702
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4551702

>>4551573
>didn't this guy draw a loli getting raped, it was violent with her hand getting stabbed to tie her down. how he's still surviving with being an e-celeb is beyond me.

you sure that's not magic mike? sounds like sth he does

>> No.4551789
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4551789

>> No.4551799

>>4548103
i thought this pic was just a meme KEK

>> No.4551803

>>4547998
he is the bane of /ic/'s existence
killing crabs left and right

>> No.4551813

>>4550065
More manly than you, autist.

>> No.4551816

>>4551201
Good thing we’re not talking about PDP.

>> No.4551817

>>4551573
This guy is so jealous it hurts, lmao.

>> No.4551830

Its just for kids that have too much time in their hands

>> No.4551971

>>4548103
>Jesus. Give us someone normal.
this

>> No.4551989

I only watched 2 vids of him so far, and he was already repeating himself hard.
It's good advice for newbs, but I already know everything I heard from him so far.

>> No.4551993

>>4548035
So much time wasted

>> No.4554003

>>4547998
I just watch him for the laughs

>> No.4554246

>>4547998
He helps baby artists avoid the pitfall of not using reference. Critical advice

>> No.4554291
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4554291

>>4547998
>4

>> No.4554296

>>4551789
This video was really good.

>> No.4554538

>>4551651
Let's be honest here, he did not do all of that by himself

>> No.4554556

>>4551989
>>4554296
There's a place for his videos, as repetitive as they may be, like there's a legitimate place for Jazza's videos. At a certain level, it helps when you get the basics drilled into you, and it's good that's an actual industry professional in this case. His video style? Annoying asf when you first see it, but you get desensitized to it quickly.

>> No.4554689

>>4548829
>he's manly, youre insecure because you don't like him
Honk honk

>> No.4554695

>>4554556
Big no. Ethan is nowhere near competent enough to be a good newbie instructor. Half the fundamental advice he gives is misguided or straight-up counterproductive because he doesn't know what he's doing himself.

>> No.4554696
File: 384 KB, 2340x1080, Screenshot_20200506-123827_YouTube.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4554696

No one is going to talk about that time Ethan made fun of Moderndayjames' dog?

He's too tryhard, I would never find this funny... a 3 legged dog

>> No.4554697

>>4554695
Please can you explain more about that?

Or recommend better YouTube channels

>> No.4554700
File: 180 KB, 489x452, steppan-bouwman.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4554700

Thoughts on this guy?

>> No.4554706

>>4554697
Anything, nigger. For anatomy just go through Prokos videos + Vilppus lectures and go to figuredrawing regularly. For everything else - forms, perspective, lighting, color, linequality, art philosophy, there's Alahu Aldoori, Marco Bucci, MDJ, Sinix and a million smaller channels, and I'd argue that even Sycra has a better grasp on the fundamentals and how to teach them than Ethan.

>> No.4554736

>>4554706
Thnx m8

>> No.4554755

>>4548035
there is no point.
All there is, is the shitty jokes.

>> No.4554758

>>4548829
>ethan
>manly
he comes off like a complete fraud. His entire persona feels like max effort fakery that he puts on for his fanbase.

>> No.4554759

>>4554758
>His entire persona feels like max effort fakery that he puts on for his fanbase.
That's the joke you dipshit

>> No.4554760

>>4554556
>there's a place for becker and jazza
yeah I guess ngmi's need youtube videos as well.

>> No.4554761

>>4554697
ModernDayJames is the best fundies grinding youtube

>> No.4554763

>>4554759
so then what's manly about him?
if he's just like a clown playing a tough guy?

>> No.4554838

>>4554759
>joke's on them, I was only pretending

Come on

>> No.4554845

ie likae to watch yootubahs

>> No.4554890

>>4554696
he comes off like he plays an edgy character but if confronted for real IRL he may just say it's a prank bro
He lets his bulldog mouth run his puppy dog ass

>> No.4554894

this guy wants to be nick mullen so bad

>> No.4554910

>>4548243
Nobody but 30 people knows Namasensei.

>> No.4554964
File: 194 KB, 1080x1349, mdj tibia fibula.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4554964

>>4554761
ah yes the watch-me-draw and then pay-to-watch-me-draw youtuber who doesn't know his anatomy

pic related hint is in the filename

>> No.4554972

>>4554964
Oh no he made a mistake what a fraud!

Post your work

>> No.4554977

>>4548356
>>4548354
>>4548355
Terrible. Why is it always dunning kruger bad artists that feel they have the right to teach others? Every fucking time

>> No.4554987

>>4554964
The names arent even important its the form. Were not training to be surgeons here

>> No.4554988

Someone post his loli drawings

>> No.4554991
File: 150 KB, 597x448, adasdasd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4554991

>>4554972

pretty blatant mistake for an actual medical student to make d e s u, don't you think

pyw

>> No.4554994

>>4554987
he got the form wrong too, the ankle layout is totally wrong; the inner ankle bump is the elevated one, not the outer one

>> No.4555189
File: 982 KB, 1920x1080, mdj.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4555189

>>4554964
Where'd you even find that image? Looks way wonkier than MDJs current work.

>> No.4555194

>>4554988
Those actually reflect Ethans true desires, so they're far more soulful and appealing than his other stuff.
If he turned his channel into "how to draw loli" I'd support him.

>> No.4555201

>>4555189
What's wonky about that?

>> No.4555206

>>4555201
The arms for the guy on the left are just fucked beyond belief - the silhouettes sort of work, but the lines don't describe the forms properly at all.
Then, try focusing in on the ugly, deformed feet on both, and the abomination of a structural breakdown in the middle. The skull on the right is also deformed af, as are the collarbones and the ribcage. The spine is also shifted way too much to the right and the pelvis in general is a big, undefined blob.
The overall proportions are still pretty good, so it reads well as long as you don't pay too much attention, but modern MDJ has a much better grasp of form.

>> No.4555221

>>4555189
his instagram, right next to where he said he's a medical student
i hope he failed his anatomy class, because that bone layout doesn't deserve a passing grade

>> No.4555249

>>4555221
holy crab

>> No.4555302

Look. Even I don't like the persona and I get why people wouldn't watch for that.

But if you discredit his knowledge and professional experience I'm sorry but you might be ngmi

>> No.4555321

>>4555302
Look, I can make the opposite claim with just as much conviction.

If you mistake his mask of confidence for knowledge and professional experience you might be ngmi

>> No.4555357

>>4555321
That claim doesn't really work, his "mask of confidence" is supported by his legitimate professional experience. Is there particular advice of his you disagree with?

>> No.4555358

>>4555321
> for knowledge
maybe has maybe doesn't, up to you to feel either way
> professional experience
but you can't objectively have opinions about this one, he *is* a working professional artist

>> No.4555360

>>4555358
You can have experience working a profession without learning how to be professional.

>> No.4555366

>>4555360
so your experience while working professioally in a profession is not professional experience? regardless of whether it's part of your professional demeanour

you're moving the goalposts a bit too much for me to keep up honestly

>> No.4555381

>>4555366
What are you even trying to say? Ethan is a teacher, so it's completely reasonable to talk about "professional experience" in terms of knowledge he can transmit. In what universe is arguing that he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to being professional and equating that with a lack of professional experience moving the goalposts?

>> No.4555423

>>4555302
>i'm not a faggot, but

>> No.4555433

>>4555358
>>4555360
Rob liefeld was a professional comic artist when his art was more looks over accuracy which results in horrible anatomy and rendering. I only say his art "was" horrible instead of "still" because I know people debate if he has gotten better or not.

>> No.4556078

>>4554838
Greentext is not an argument. He IS only pretending. People have been putting on characters to be funny or to make a point since forever, but nowadays we have autists that look at the "only pretending to be retarded" meme and think that means that ALL put on characters, no matter how obviously insincere, are bad. Straight retarded.

>> No.4556085

>>4554538
this is pure cope

>> No.4556334

>>4556078

His character is legitimately bad

>> No.4556577
File: 644 KB, 2880x1440, Screenshot_2020-05-07-13-28-14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4556577

>>4551789
That video told me more about how to draw like KJG than his Gi's own course.

>This tread is full of crabs.

>> No.4556613
File: 526 KB, 2090x1060, ethanbeckersamiways.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4556613

>>4547998
same energy

>> No.4556819

>>4547998
He's the zoomer embodiment of the youtube art-"teachers" wave
His advice is sound but his articulation is a bit cringe

I still prefer to zone out and enjoy a good james gurney outdoor painting

>> No.4557019

>>4547998
He has tiny nuggets of okay advice for beginners but he's literally fucking incomprehensible and he's not funny either.

>> No.4557037

>>4556613
Hello? is this the based department? Yes? Please connect me to the truth department. you have an escapee

>> No.4557065

i have no idea whether his advice is good because i found his videos so unwatchable and just padded with shitty jokes to increase watch time and get over 10 minutes. there is no need to watch him really anyway he just gives the same advice you can find anywhere

>> No.4557074

>>4547998
>>4548829
>watching art youtubers at all
why

>> No.4557344

>>4557074
they make for good background babble, and they serve as art company if you don't have any art friends around
>>4557065
Ethan, you're cute, but samefagging to get views is not cute

>> No.4557840

>>4557019
yeah

>> No.4557844

>>4556613

Oof OOOF OOOOFFFF!!!

>> No.4557953

>>4554696
He's playing the american persona and he's doing it so well he's attracting all the american fanboys

>> No.4557959

>hes not very good or funny
>has lots of vies and followers

>> No.4557972

>>4557959

You are admitting Ethan is prioritizing views over his own tips

>> No.4557978

>>4557972
his tips get views, cope

>> No.4557986

>>4557978

If his tips where that good he would not need to be this cringe character to begin with

>> No.4557990

>>4557986
you are saying he is cringe

>> No.4557991

>>4557978
>copeposting
So, you don't think his advice is good either then

>> No.4558051

>>4556577
give me the tl;dr

>> No.4558121

>>4548103
Volen Ck is pretty normal lol

>> No.4558234

>>4551799
nope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_veFbIsuubo

>> No.4558269
File: 20 KB, 300x300, B5730382-68F2-4D58-8E88-65BB6BC508BC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4558269

He gives good advice I guess. The problem is that there’s to many layers of irony and...”memeing” that you have to sort through to get to anything useful. As others said, he wastes a lot of time on intro and doing the “this is my opinion jk this is” that it’s hard to tell what’s his actual point. I get too impatient and have never actually finished any of his videos and just assume he doesn’t have a point. Honestly he seems like a nice guy, but he’s just too much YouTube poop for my tastes. As for good advice, it’s hard enough for me as an adult to get what he’s trying to say. I can’t imagine how a young person could get to the real legitimate stuff. Then again the current generation is better at picking up on irony and what is and isn’t memes so maybe I’m just showing my boomerism. Anyway

>> No.4558315

>>4554910
>23000 subscribers on Youtube

Your secret club aint so secret granpa

>> No.4558322

>>4558269
yea I imagine if you are on the spectrum he is like some kind of weird alien

>> No.4558967 [DELETED] 
File: 252 KB, 850x1249, a670e705b142a24dfd3c4abd766c81ea.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4558967

>>4558051

Learn to draw boxes in perspective.

>> No.4559026

For me at least, yes. And as for his more comedic moments in his advice videos. I don't mind them. There are more than plenty of art YouTubers that just give straightfoward advice with no jokes. I like to be entertained while I'm learning.

>> No.4559030

>>4556613
I like how Ethan draws his lips.

>> No.4560834
File: 125 KB, 732x732, from_ethans_instagram.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4560834

just saying

>> No.4560844

>>4554700
based

>> No.4561145

i dont know about his advice but the way he talks is straigtht up retarded and if you watch that shit you should jump off a cliff

>> No.4561171

>>4551702
i really like that. where can i follow this artist? i tried using image search but it didnt work

>> No.4563284

>>4561171
problematic, yet intriguing....

>> No.4563563

>>4558322
>durr I’m a normal unlike you
Nigger why would this thread even be up still if it wasn’t something people had a problem with

>> No.4563570

>>4547998
xD random normie tier irony ftw

>> No.4563581

>>4555194
Ok now I’m interested. Not so much for the loli but because of how you described it

>> No.4563596

>>4554994
Have fun drawing every single small bump on the human body.
Unless you want to never ever make it and your drawing to look really fucking disgusting, please don't do this.

>> No.4563632

>>4547998
Honestly I'm done with those low /int/ artist youtuber
I only watch professional once in a while like bucci and that's it, can't be bothered by your cringe drama and advice for begs

>> No.4563709

>>4561171
ofc it didn't work it's from here not online

>> No.4563800

>>4558051
learn 5-point perspective, remember details of everything you see, and don't draw from imagination

don't listen to anything KJG says because he don't know shit about teaching

>> No.4563918
File: 28 KB, 707x434, thatssoprokoofyou.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4563918

>>4547998
He's so manly, I love it. He's definitely not for everyone though. One of my friends said he can't stand him because of how long he takes to get his point across.
Btw /ic/ Ethan vs Proko. Who's hotter?

>> No.4563923
File: 5 KB, 258x195, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4563923

>>4563918
Vilppu-sama
Ethan and Proko look like scrawny ugly incels

>> No.4564828

>>4547998
If you feel you need to put timestamps to get to the point, then your video is shit on arrival.

>> No.4564923

>>4564828

^^^ This ^^^

>> No.4564926
File: 23 KB, 303x317, miss alice what.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4564926

>>4551573
>traditional is much harder than digital
It's the opposite for me. What am I doing wrong?

Is it because I have 15 years old bamboo tablet with the wrong aspect ratio?

>> No.4565025 [DELETED] 

>>4551651

Also WHY DON'T HE TALK MORE ABOUT THAT?
"They told me this or that in X Big studio" You know... INSTEAD OF HIS CRINGEY JOKES

>> No.4565028
File: 31 KB, 600x605, de79915ce4085b4418293fdfc98e20fd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4565028

>>4560834

Just saying? Just saying what? You haven't said anything at all