/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4519324]

What makes western animation so fucking artistically bland and lazy compared to great artistic anime like Monogatari or Tatami Galaxy? Are movies the only hope? Steven Universe repulses me art style wise and I don't know how some people can like this shit while thinking all anime is moeshit and nothing more.

[Anonymous No.4519335]

Asians are the artistically superior race

[Anonymous No.4519369]

>>4519324
Producers are cunts and you only get a show through nepotism or wanting to make the blandest most proven shit at the moment for the cheapest possible.

[Anonymous No.4519371]

>>4519324
>anime isnt literally the same copy pasted shit faces every time
Nice cope faggot. Youre just mad because they have a stable job drawing cartoons.

[Anonymous No.4519392]

>>4519371
Please retard, name one single non-disney/pixar/dreamworks western cartoon that is on the same artistic level of this. Of course I know you just can't, go watch your shitty ugly bean-faced cartoons aimed at tiny children.

[Anonymous No.4519395]

Its another 'western bad' thread

[Anonymous No.4519397]

>>4519324
>Went to Calarts
>Went to the School of Visual Arts
>May not have even gone to college
>Calarts
>Calarts
>Studied fucking environmental science

[Anonymous No.4519400]

>>4519324
False, consider this western artistic masterpiece. The fact that he can convey so many sophisticated emotions and how people STILL USE his faces for reaction images 2 decades later shows what an enduring masterpiece this is.

[Anonymous No.4519419]

>>4519392
>non-disney/pixar/dreamworks
ez lad

[Anonymous No.4519421]

>>4519324
West does not care about animation, they just want to push their agenda

[Anonymous No.4519425]

western simplifies, eastern complexifies, both ends of that gradient require extreme skill and creativity to master and obviously a lot of studios are full of hacks and are producer controlled so it gets regulated and filtered into the same fine powder of similarity for maximum demographic appeal and therefore profit, with exceptions, also you're only referencing kids shows which is stupid, cause if you broaden it there is a lot of good and unique examples, juts like in the eastern world, which has it's own share of mediocrity and cashgrabs

[Anonymous No.4519432]

With Rise of TMNT and Glitch Techs we are actually seeing a slight switch in the '20. Those who grew up with 90s-2000s angular shows and action anime are starting to have an influence in animation, and the style is pretty popular in art twitter.

[Anonymous No.4519447]

>>4519324
Because it costs far less to animate than anything more detailed, like anime, it's proven to be safe and make loads of money, and producers will only ever support a project that is both incredibly cheap and incredibly safe. It's not about "Western artistic inferiority" or anything, it's just corporate shitcunts ruining art for the sake of money.

[Anonymous No.4519487]

>>4519324
I think lazy is the wrong word to describe it, a better word would be "uninspired"


The anime style has its roots in traditional Japanese art. The key characteristics such as subdued facial features, decorative hair, backgrounds that are referenced from real locations are all visible in modern day anime. Even if they are not as elegant all the time, there is a clear preference for artistic style that the Japanese people have held for centuries.
When a Japanese person wants to draw something, they look towards what has been done by the people in their country and reference that. This is why the art world in Japan is so strong, it's easy to get into because they already know what they want to draw like.

The west is different, we don't like to copy, we naturally want to be individualistic, we want to go our own way and stand out from the crowd. We have art that inspires us but only to a certain extent, we do not wish to be a clone of that art, instead we want to understand its essence and create more original art from this.
Another thing is that around the 1900's the camera effectively destroyed the art world in the west. The dominant artistic preference for most of history had been realism, while some great artists took their art beyond what a camera could ever do, the vast majority of working artists at the time only desired to paint in a realistic manner, and the camera thoroughly ended that industry.

Without a shared cultural artistic style to hold to, nor the desire for one.. budding artists in the west are lost. Any desires for artistic style they may have are vague and undefined at best, a slight feeling of what they want their art to look like but nothing concrete to work towards, instead they must carve their own path, make stylistic mistakes and hope to someday create something appealing...

[Anonymous No.4519492]

>>4519487
essentially they are reinventing the wheel.. and this is the result.

The reason western art always looks either childish or bland or in some other way inelegant is because it has no history backing it.
There is no meaning in anything drawn.
It is no longer the result of over a thousand years of gradual development in arts, arts that through the trial and error of countless artists have created a style that perfectly embodies the ideals, preferences and idiosyncrasies of those people.

All that there is to see is the stylistic development of a single twenty something year old artist, with no reference to the past at all.

[Anonymous No.4519493]

>>4519324
Why do people sleep on Klaus?

[Anonymous No.4519510]

>>4519493
Netflix doesn't advertise their shit so anything new that gets put up is just lost in the sea of garbage. Not to mention, people only use it for watching the same crap every time; the office, breaking bad, etc.

[Anonymous No.4519547]

>>4519447
Capitalism was a mistake

[Anonymous No.4519575]

>>4519392
every male character has the same face.

[Anonymous No.4519583]

>>4519324
Western animators earn more money. So, animation is cheaper to make in Japan, they can make better looking animations with less money than in the west.
>What makes western animation so fucking artistically bland and lazy compared to great artistic anime like Monogatari or Tatami Galaxy?

[Anonymous No.4519587]

>>4519400
We need more right wing animation like KotH. Comfy as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4519595]

>>4519432
>gay jet set radio is the future
Doubt it but if it is, god help us.

[Anonymous No.4519598]

>>4519487
This post perfectly captures the crisis of art in the western world.

The lower salaries of Japanese animators play into the equation as well but this seems to be more important.

[Anonymous No.4519614]

>>4519595
lots of these artists don't even ingage in identity politics, dunno what you're on about

[Anonymous No.4519732]

>>4519547
How is it the fault of capitalism? The main point of capitalism is to let the market regulate itself through competition, supply and demand with minimal intervention from the state. It's the fault of the people who are willing to consume the same shit over and over again without any standards for the quality of the visuals for enabling production companies to get away with this.

[Anonymous No.4519734]

>>4519324
ironic when anime has the same face for every character, hero, villain, background character etc.
the only way to tell a character apart is their hair

[Anonymous No.4519791]

>>4519324
Nice bait but to not waste a thread, here is some good western animation.

[Anonymous No.4519799]

>>4519732
The fault of capitalism is letting plebs decide the cultural development of a nation.
Every great civilization rose up on the backs of slaves and plebs who did the labor, while the patricians made the culture. When you let plebs decide on what kind of culture to produce, you get pleb shit.

Besides, capitalism can be "hacked" and influenced from the outside. What value is demand and supply when you can artificially influence the demand by brainwashing the populace, or dumbing them down, or just importing a new population of consumers with lower standards?

[Anonymous No.4519810]

>>4519493
Shit liar revealed plot

[Anonymous No.4519814]

>>4519799
>implying whites aren't the biggest consumers of hollywood garbage

[Anonymous No.4519816]

What's wrong with moe? Do you hate cute girls?

[Anonymous No.4519832]

>>4519814
I don't dispute.
Racism is dumb and gay, greeks and romans were swarthy anyway.
I support platonic authoritarianism with philosopher kings and artists and intellectuals as the social elite. I mean, plato hated art, but he had generally good idea on how to run society.

[Anonymous No.4519839]

>>4519487
People do reference previous works in the west.
Many an artist have learned from copying their favorite artists.
>>4519324
Execs (pic related).

[Anonymous No.4519841]

>>4519392
Volotron, she-Ra, Rick and morty, midnight gospel, camp camp
Need more?

[Anonymous No.4519842]

>>4519816
I hate blandness

[Anonymous No.4519863]

>>4519832
>Plato
>bald chicken man

Diogenes fo lyfe muddafukkaaaaaa

[Anonymous No.4519876]

>>4519863
diogenes was just a coping incel

[Anonymous No.4519906]

>>4519876
Lmao chad Diogenes still making normies butthurt over 2000 years later.

[Anonymous No.4519922]

>>4519392
ah yes the two male faces, the 3/4 face and the frontal face

[Anonymous No.4519926]

>>4519842
Anime girls tend to look similar? You don't like one thing because there's a lot of other things like it? I don't understand your complaint.

[Anonymous No.4519941]

>anime
>same faces
sure
>>4519841
>Rick and morty
No, you shat enough bullshit.

[Anonymous No.4519948]

>>4519392
I don't know if you're falseflagging, but LoGH is not hailed for its art or animation even among the fanbase

[Anonymous No.4520107]

>>4519493
I unironically think it's because of the artstyle. Klaus has a Disney inspired look but none of the characters fit into a cool, cute, or beautiful look. Iron Giant had the same problem. A great story, but even I remember most of my friends at the time weren't interested because they thought the characters looked like less appealing Disney characters. Obviously both films are technically fantastic, but I genuinely think the artstyles are a barrier to entry of sorts to the casual non-artist audience.

[Anonymous No.4520124]

>>4519432
That would based as fuck

[Anonymous No.4520168]

>>4519799
>Every great civilization rose up on the backs of slaves and plebs who did the labor, while the patricians made the culture
This

[Anonymous No.4520191]

>>4520124
ikr. hooray, non-round characters!!

[Anonymous No.4520695]

>>4519324
>Why is bad examples from x not as good as better examples from y?

[Anonymous No.4520707]

>>4519614
He means gay in the traditional sense, not literally homosexual.

[Anonymous No.4520791]

>>4519324
>college kids who want to stand out
>college kids who want to fit in

hmmmmmm

[Anonymous No.4520903]

>>4519419
Your are just proving his point you traitor

[Anonymous No.4520907]

>>4519400
>that perspective and foreshortening

[Anonymous No.4520913]

>>4519791
80% of the list is not even good. What the fuck are you guys? Some guys of trolls that trolls the trolls. Fuck

[Anonymous No.4520915]

amricans are much scared to lose their money they have become frozen people

[Anonymous No.4521016]

>>4519791
>fucking disney garbage
>CGI
What a fucking joke. No wonder everybody prefers anime nowadays. Give all the shit you want, at least it's still hand drawn.

[Anonymous No.4521026]

>>4519324
complacency. No idea why more artists aren't outraged that their shitty impractical jobs went overseas, and that was enacted when it was motivated purely to save money and not out of some fake veneer of good will.

[Anonymous No.4521049]

>>4519432
It looks nice, but I it'd probably get sterilized into ugly vector-shit once it actually gets animated.

[Anonymous No.4521150]

there is no demand or market for Western animation

[Anonymous No.4521167]

>>4519814
We’re not.

[Anonymous No.4521173]

>>4519799
>>4519832
shut up redditor nigger

>>4519814
unironically the chinese are

[Anonymous No.4521198]

>>4519324
Not this shit again.

[Anonymous No.4524351]

>>4519392
>unironically posting this degenerated shit

Mc fucking kill yourself

[Anonymous No.4524815]

>>4521198
Here it goes again right back to the top :^)

[Anonymous No.4524904]

>>4520168
God /ic/ is growing more delusional by the day if people actually believe any of this garbage.

[Anonymous No.4524960]

>>4519335
>Asians
>artistically superior race
If the Europeans or Spanish didn’t exist that is, then maybe.

[Anonymous No.4525276]

>>4519493
because it has a generic story

[Anonymous No.4525339]

>>4519324
Amazing World of Gumball looks great though.

[Anonymous No.4525345]

>>4519324
Western animation is highly nepotistic, you get employed under an animator and then use that connection to pitch something to producers in a style that is familiar enough to get greenlit.
Eastern animation is mainly picked out of comic source material, which is used to copy keys verbatim by existing animation teams.

[Anonymous No.4525422]

>>4521016
>everybody
anon, how long had it been since you’ve had any human interaction?

[Anonymous No.4525549]

>>4519392
fuckin' gorillaz ya nignog

[Anonymous No.4525555]

>>4519392
I can't believe people actually bit the bait

[Anonymous No.4525560]

>>4525555
Unfortunately, people like that anon really do exist. Also LoGHfags are notorious for being dimwitted edglords, it's nothing special because this is how they usually behave.

[Anonymous No.4525590]

>>4519814
Exactly. Hollywood is consumed by white trash hoodlums and lower middle class bygmen.

[Anonymous No.4525626]

>>4525549
Overload of soul

[Anonymous No.4525629]

>>4519335
if my genes are that good why am i still shit? take that nigga

[Anonymous No.4526235]

>>4521016
You so retarded you confuse CGI with stop-motion.

[Anonymous No.4526240]

>>4519335
This but unironically

[Anonymous No.4526361]

>find out my ancestors were mongols
>mongols are asian
>i have asian blood in me
>my anime is authentic
Later losers

[Anonymous No.4526458]

>>4526361
The Mongols are the reason Japan has anime while China doesn't

[Anonymous No.4526484]

>>4526361
eastern russia?

[Anonymous No.4526526]

>>4519324
Monogatari is a fucking slideshow. Shaft doesnt animate shit.

[Anonymous No.4526570]

>>4519791
Based Coonskin, genius movie with genius animation. They hate you because you speak the truth anon

[Anonymous No.4526628]

>>4526526
Kizu is great

[Anonymous No.4526657]

>>4519587
>koth
>right wing

Its centrist you giblet head

[Anonymous No.4526660]

>>4519732
It’s the fault of capitalism because when you pay 90% of people garbage wages all they can afford is what’s at the bottom of the barrel.

[Anonymous No.4526687]

>>4526484
Mother is. Also had a painter in my family, my great grandfather was famous I think

[Anonymous No.4526788]

>>4519324
Are you really generalizing all of western animation because of some half baked meme from /ic/?

[Anonymous No.4527114]

>>4519941
not him but R&M has genuinely good animation
you have watched it right? https://youtu.be/nfyDs7lHHWw

[Anonymous No.4527131]

>>4525276
how is the story generic?

[Anonymous No.4527277]

[Anonymous No.4527286]

[Anonymous No.4527302]

>>4527286
Fuck you Iris IS cute and better than all your weeb shit. You weebs ruin everything from monster girls to porn.

[Super rare actual serious crit(...) No.4527318]

>>4519324
Western animation never actually took off, it is self cannibalizing, and driven by style over substance and sales over passion. in fact most of it isn't even done in studio. They outsource most of the work.
Max Fleischer, Don Bluth, ralph bakshi, peter chung, all incredible western animation that were chewed up and spit out like trash for the favor of plagiarism and works that makes a quick buck. Hopefully this won't keep going and will one day be better, but are you gong to stick around just to be kicked back down for being too good?

[Anonymous No.4527337]

>>4527318
that's right, also cartoon girls are ugly.

[Super rare actual serious crit(...) No.4527429]

>>4527337
Yup

[Anonymous No.4527452]

>>4525549
this is gonna sound stupid, but source???????
I know its the art for the Clint Eastwood mv but I've never seen this clip before.

[Anonymous No.4527701]

>>4527302
it is literally a flat egg clipart with an eye clipart on top of it flash paper puppet, permanently fixed in 3/4 perspective.

Everything about it screams CHEAP

[Anonymous No.4527715]

>>4519392
Hey Arnold has beautiful colouring and design

[Anonymous No.4527717]

>>4527429
I wanna fuck equally.

[Anonymous No.4527720]

>>4527429
I still wanna fuck em both.

[Anonymous No.4527725]

>>4527701
weebs are so delusional that they dont believe anime dont make similar shortcuts
all anime girls look the same havent you noticed

[Anonymous No.4527735]

>>4527725
>tweeen animation made for tweeens

[Anonymous No.4527738]

>>4519876
based and blackpilled. this applies for most philosophers and artists.

[Super rare actual serious crit(...) No.4527739]

>>4527720
plain girl is the most kissable@!

[Anonymous No.4528034]

>>4527452
It's from a series of shorts.
https://youtu.be/lfir44PZt8I

[Anonymous No.4528970]

>>4526570
I personally liked Fritz and The Wizards better.

[Anonymous No.4528995]

>>4526361
Mongols were badass, nearly could have conquered Europe, save for internal problems if I recall correctly.

[Anonymous No.4529019]

>>4527277
>>4527286
>>4527429
>Ahaha anime is so much better than cartoon
>Uses generic soulless moeshit trash

[Anonymous No.4529037]

>>4519324
the american animation industry is more incestuous than a japanese family reunion

[Anonymous No.4529053]

>>4529019
Mangas aren't animations and are a different world from modern cartoons, you're better off comparing them to american comics.

[Anonymous No.4529065]

>>4519324
But anime almost always neglects the fuck out of character acting and typically all you get is bland mouth flaps with a vacant stare, of course this is due to most anime having to run on a TV budget but hell it happens a lot in feature films too.
I didn't even come to truly appreciate western animation until AFTER I came back from anime. It was then that I noticed how much anime tends to lack in animating any gesture or body language.

[Anonymous No.4529076]

>>4519324
But anime almost always neglects the fuck out of character acting and typically all you get is bland mouth flaps with a vacant stare, of course this is due to most anime having to run on a TV budget but hell it happens a lot in feature films too.
I didn't even come to truly appreciate western animation until AFTER I came back from anime. It was then that I noticed how much effort western cartoons put into animating gesture and body language.

[Anonymous No.4529398]

>>4526660
>All they can afford is what's at the bottom of the barrel
What? Art is quite possibly the only thing where price isn't necessarily correlated with quality

[Anonymous No.4529465]

>>4526570
Bakshi's did so much with so little money, he's amazing and a true artist.

[Anonymous No.4530047]

>>4529076
What about the well-animated anime; like Bebop or Lupin?

[Anonymous No.4530065]

Why are you dumb mother fuckers comparing cartoons aimed at children vs cartoons aimed at adults?

[Anonymous No.4530322]

>>4530065
Pic related is a cartoon aimed at children, what's your point?

[Anonymous No.4530352]

>>4530322
>episode 21
Too bad it was censored outside of Japan, so most people won't get what you mean.

[Anonymous No.4530394]

>>4519324
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5ih1IRIRxI
Weebshits status: btfo

[Super rare actual serious crit(...) No.4530420]

>>4529019
Hey look, little billy just found out that you can view media older than 10 years, and he thinks alita, akira, and gits are underground
Please come back when you are 18

[Anonymous No.4530424]

>>4530352
Not him but what happened? I watched it a year ago (subbed) and I don't recall anything really controversial about it.
I do remember it having 3x the budget as the other episodes though

[Anonymous No.4530670]

>>4530424
>Not him but what happened?
Here's the archive, look
https://yuki.la/a/155598894

[Anonymous No.4530672]

>>4530424
>Not him but what happened?
Here's the archive, look
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/155598894/director-of-digimon-s1-episode-21-was-a-love

[Anonymous No.4530680]

>>4530424
>>4530672
I forgot the TL;DR video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXw_5mcHLDg

[Anonymous No.4530719]

>>4524904
All of the right's constant guides on self-improvement just seems to me like some sort of cheap larp shit advice they get from /fit/ or some other place.
Despite that image saying that talk is cheap, all they ever did was talk.

[Anonymous No.4530778]

>>4530719
Failing to live up to your ideals is not a sign that you don't care about them, but that they are difficult to live up to.

To just throw away any goals or ideals and live like an animal is not better because you are truthful to yourself, you have just given up and declared the top of the mountain is now where you stand

[Anonymous No.4530925]

>>4530424
It wasn't censored outside of Japan. The whole series was butchered in the dub (music, writing, etc)
It's just that Mamoru Hosoda used a weird metaphor (japanese humor) to describe the relationship between Taichi and Hikari in *this* episode and incestfags are exploding

[Anonymous No.4530927]

>>4530352
>>4530925
Also I wasn't talking about the incest undertones. I was saying that even though it's aimed at children there is a real artistic vision, a strong understanding of mise-en-sècne and color theory

[Anonymous No.4530931]

anime was never good

[Anonymous No.4531115]

>>4530925
I misunderstood your intent, but you were doing yourself no favors by pointing out episode 21 of all things considered without pointing out specifically what you meant. On the other hand I should've just asked instead of assumed as well.
>It wasn't censored outside of Japan. The whole series was butchered in the dub (music, writing, etc)
I am not a "iNcEstFaG", not even close, but by censored outside of Japan I didn't mean the American localization alone. I grew up with the German one, watched it several times even, and watched the Japanese dub with subs.
Yours was butchered, if you are talking about the American one. The German localization was great.
Perhaps censored was too hard of a word to use in this situation. Maybe it was just badly translated.

[Anonymous No.4531204]

>>4530931
Agreed has always been better than good

[Anonymous No.4531511]

>>4529019
where was it ever applied that this was supossed to be underground?
we projecting?

[Anonymous No.4531543]

>>4531115
Yeah, Krauts were pretty based when it came to Digimon. I don't dislike dubs but this is the most horrid one I've ever seen.
Also yeah, episode 21 is a bit of cheating but the rest of the series is nothing to blush about. The backgrounds especially.
The excuse that "it's for kid" doesn't hold up, either something is artistically well-made, or it isn"t.

[Anonymous No.4531590]

>>4519324
>western animation
You mean american animation. It’s a problem of no existing culture and the need to make money as fast as possible. Americans couldn’t care less about art

[Anonymous No.4531597]

>>4524351
Compared to your soulless art that springs from the american dirt, this is pure and passionate art

[Anonymous No.4531747]

>>4519392
Primal

[Anonymous No.4531811]

>>4519324
because America's animation industry sucks and these schools essentially exist as pipelines training you to emulate the style of the decade - if you take the commercial route.

do you know calarts also has an explicitly experimental program separate from their character animation course? there's tons of good innovative western animation, only just no money in it so you have to go to actual festivals or hunt on vimeo.

[Anonymous No.4531898]

>>4531543
>Also yeah, episode 21 is a bit of cheating but the rest ...
Absolutely
>The excuse that "it's for kid" doesn't hold up, either something is artistically well-made, or it isn"t.
I never understood this "excuse", be it for artistic merit or what media targeted children (and older) in general looks like (mechanically, in video games, for example). You wouldn't want to serve a/your children a plate full of shit, so why the different approach