/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4505195]

How good do you have to be realistically just to be able to present and explore an idea and emotion?

I'm not talking hyper-realism or weeb shit, but perhaps more scholastic or abstract stuff even. Could a fundamentally and technically shit artist present worthwhile, interesting and enjoyable work in your opinion?

[Anonymous No.4505210]

no

[Anonymous No.4505234]

Define what you mean interesting and enjoyable. You will always find a group of people that will enjoy your art no matter how shit it is, see: mediocre-to-shit artists who have large following on social media.
The average joe is clueless when it comes to art, and will be amazed by the shittiest idea as long as you put enough glitter on it.
What you really need to look for in terms of validation is approval from artistically competent and educated people. So in that sense you will most likely need to have artistic skills before being able to make a presentable idea.

[Anonymous No.4505275]

>>4505234
Well the story is I'm applying to this prestigious fashion Uni, and I'm decent enough to pass by my sketches and all that sort. Just basic, stylised anatomy showcasing clothing and fit. Obviously you'd add material reference, explain the idea and methodology and all that.

But I've been thinking of maybe including more 'classical' art. Paintings and all that. It's encouraged to show your range of ideas and expression in your portfolio, and I've had a lot of them, but not enough technical skill or training to execute 'elaborate' or traditionally sound works. I gravitate towards avant-garde and abstract myself, but I'm afraid it would come off as lacklustre and pretentious bullshit, detracting from the idea itself so that it's muddled in sub-par technique. I never got formal training and my only source of education has been the internet and an internship I did.

[Anonymous No.4505287]

>>4505195
The better you are at drawing, the more effective you can potentially express your ideas.

[Anonymous No.4505298]

>>4505275
>It's encouraged to show your range of ideas and expression in your portfolio, and I've had a lot of them
Every single retard is full of them. Having the proper execution to pull them off is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
>I'm applying to this prestigious fashion Uni
>I'm afraid it would come off as lacklustre and pretentious bullshit
>I never got formal training
Sounds like you're just what every Uni is looking for. Stick to pretentious bullshit if you want to get your degree, that's exactly what they are looking for and proper art with technique will actually threaten your superiors.

[Anonymous No.4505302]

>>4505195
Basically what your asking is if you can make it being a ngmi /beg/?

[Anonymous No.4505325]

>>4505287
Obviously, but could you circumvent sub-par skill and still produce something worthwhile?

>>4505298
>Every single retard is full of them. Having the proper execution to pull them off is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Truth, but I did not need to hear that for my morale when this shit's just round the corner

>Sounds like you're just what every Uni is looking for
Aww cheers anon :)
>Stick to pretentious bullshit if you want to get your degree, that's exactly what they are looking for and proper art with technique will actually threaten your superiors.
I wish I believed that

[Anonymous No.4505326]

>>4505275
When evaluating entrance portfolios, they're usually fully aware that they're educating possibly very inexperienced (craft-wise) people. If you can, try to look up portfolios that got accepted at that school, but I'd rather go all out and try to express stuff than not trying properly at all.

[Anonymous No.4505330]

>>4505195
Just practice realism retard. Anime and comics are for fags

[Anonymous No.4505331]

>>4505302
Let me reword. How would someone with sub-par skill go about expressing ideas visually without detracting from them? Like what style of drawing/painting would require the least technical ability, while still being completely valid and interesting?

[Anonymous No.4505342]

>>4505326
>I'd rather go all out and try to express stuff than not trying properly at all.
That's the plan man, and I do hope it all works out

>>4505330
If you mean so I can get better, then sure. But if you think that's the only valid style then neck yourself

[Anonymous No.4505359]

>>4505325
>could you circumvent sub-par skill and still produce something worthwhile
Worthwhile to who?

[Anonymous No.4505369]

>>4505331
>not talking hyper-realism or weeb shit, but perhaps more scholastic or abstract stuff even
It's getting more concrete, but still too vague, there's no "one simple go-to art style" that can be recommended.
>while still being completely valid and interesting
A question like that can never be answered without knowing the idea, like xkcd.com (or qwantz.com) work for what they want to achieve. If it's about color/shapes/geometry something like the first pic in this thread could be enough. There is no universal "valid" (or any valid at all desu).

[Anonymous No.4505372]

>>4505369
>or any valid at all
There is most definitely High, valid art

[Anonymous No.4505386]

>>4505372
I apologize to father Kim Jung-Gi and will go self-flagellate for a while

[Anonymous No.4505392]

>>4505386
Look at the work of the high Renaissance masters. Is that work "invalid" to anyone?

[Anonymous No.4505528]

>>4505359
Well I guess in this case to college panel

>>4505369
>It's getting more concrete, but still too vague, there's no "one simple go-to art style" that can be recommended
Then a collection of styles and themes, perhaps a particular design language and methodology?

>the first pic in this thread could be enough
Abstract geometry pepe is actually fire


>>4505392
All of that is just philosophical rhetoric at this point. Everything and anything can be objectively valid as an art, but it has to garner enough subjective support for it to be accepted as so

[Anonymous No.4505542]

Ideas are cheap and plentiful and largely worthless. What's valuable is being able to fully explore and convey an idea through a picture. Even a simple idea can be powerful if it's effectively presented. That takes skill, no matter if representational or abstract.

The difference between a stupid sounding idea like "sad man sits on chair" vs pic related is just the execution and taste.

[Anonymous No.4505579]

>>4505542
But still, would you not agree that that requires less concrete technical skill vs something like an elaborate hyper-realism piece?

Obviously it requires a huge amount of skill and knowledge to be able to convey colour and composition like that, not to mention him being a pioneer in some completely left-field style at the time, but I'm talking more so about what a normal fag would consider 'classical art skill'

[Anonymous No.4505616]

>>4505579
If you want to "express ideas", the only skill required is being able to express those ideas. Sounds tautological, but it is what it is.
Van Gogh's painting wouldn't have as much raw impact if it were done in a classical style. Conversely, certain ideas wouldn't be effective in an expressionist style.

Sometimes less is more. Think of it as writing. A heavily emotional scene in a book would lose its effectiveness if the writer then went on to describe the color of the walls, patterns on the carpet, and the type of wood used in the furniture of the room the scene transpires in. In other contexts, such details might be warranted.

But in general, you want to move past "ideas". Ideas are verbal descriptions of the "thing" art conveys. You want to operate on the level of the actual "thing" itself.

[Anonymous No.4505763]

>>4505579
Related discussion about conveying of ideas in thread >>4500165

[Anonymous No.4505790]

>>4505616
>If you want to "express ideas", the only skill required is being able to express those ideas
Damn, guess that's quite a fair statement, but wouldn't lack of technical knowledge and skill inhibit someone being able to do that fully and exhaustively?

>>4505763
I'm hopping

[Anonymous No.4505820]

>>4505790
It's hard to come up with a "hard line" where someone would be incapable of getting an idea out. It's a sliding scale and kind of classist to say, these people can and those people can't "fully and exhaustively" express ideas. Question, do you think there comes a stage where one is a master and stops learning? Even the artists we consider masters were and are full of self-doubt and keep evolving. It's just more visible in present day because it's better documented (interviews etc.) The artists who broke the boundaries and came up with fauvism, expressionism etc. probably never asked the question of style or minimum skill, they just did their thing or worked actively against the status quo.

[Anonymous No.4505901]

>>4505820
That's really fucking inspiring mate, I appreciate it on a real. Guess it's balls to the wall and we hope everything works out.

[Anonymous No.4506199]

>>4505275
depends on the university.
a lot of art universities dont require you to be technically skilled.
a lot of art universities require you do. find out what kind of university it is. go there, talk with people, ask the professor if you can show them your work before the exam. he or his assisstent will give you feedback.
you can include some classical studies and whatnot, but if you are going into fashion then they are probably more interested in seeing how you think and how you work and what you are interested in.


this video might be good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9gVKb3HPio

they have some other videos on the topic as well

[Anonymous No.4506320]

>>4505790
Even master artists only ever convey about 25% of what they were feeling / conceptualizing in their head. Anyone who says their art 100% conveys what they had in mind is either lying, or has some very small ideas.
And 25%, that's if you're a master. So you'll never really have "enough" skill to convey an idea, you should try to convey as much of it as you can to make an impact.
And yeah, that involves technical skill, but also other more subtle skills like taste, life experience, passion, your personal worldview and philosophy, etc.

[Anonymous No.4508334]

>>4505901
Awesome. Take risks and keep creating, good luck with your application!

[Anonymous No.4510597]

>>4506199
>depends on the university
You seem quite knowledgeable about all this, any ideas about Antwerp Royal Academy? It's a rather new one that topped the scene, but it produced some of my favourite designers and it's process and ideology align with mine. Also doesn't cost an arm and a fucking leg.

>go there, talk with people, ask the professor if you can show them your work before the exam
Wish I could, but it's about a 7 hour plane ride and a whole visa away

>but if you are going into fashion then they are probably more interested in seeing how you think and how you work and what you are interested in
Yeah, I'm tryna convey that to the best of my ability. I thought about including the initial 'drafts' of an idea or creation, alongside it's process and the final form. You know, notes I write down so I don't forget, and then elaborate on later, and that sort.
A lot of my stuff is self-introspective rather than observational, and I write it down in a self-aware manner pretty much like my inner voice talking to myself, and most are not even related to 'art' per se but rather more so just like philosophical literature. You know, confront the situation as it is, acknowledging that I am putting together a portfolio for a dream, and that I am anxious about it, and just tell it as it is.
Thought that would be interesting, but I don't know. Sorry for the blog.

>>4506320
Well the hope is that I have enough of those more subtle 'skills' to offset my lack of technical knowledge

>>4508334
Damn, when did the man known as Four Chan become so nice and wholesome?
But on a real appreciate it man

[Anonymous No.4510610]

>>4510597
I'm another anon, and I don't know much about antwerp, but I find that a good indication of technical skill requirement from the unis I know is a good entrance exam. A two day model or still life plus a written test on general knowledge. If they have zero entrance exams and high fees you know is that "art school" type.

[Anonymous No.4510634]

>>4510610
Nah these mfs are legit, and way too much at that

[Anonymous No.4510676]

>>4510634
oooh, Flemish people are hardcore. I'd love to visit antwerp one day.

[Anonymous No.4510758]

>>4510597
If there's something I can tell you from experience, is that a field so "experimental" if you'd like to call it this way, like fashion is that the majority of the designers don't really present extremely detailed sketches of whatever piece they're designing. If you look up sketches from people like Pierre Cardin or Saint Laurent, they look rather "simple" but you can tell what it is that they were trying to convey (the look of the fabric, the way the model is gonna look once she/he puts on the dress/suit etc.)

Now I'm not sure how rigorous the ideation process for fashion designers is but if it's anything like product design, you'll be expected to draw dozens of pieces until one sticks.

>t. Industrial design student

I wish you the best with your application anon.

[Anonymous No.4510939]

>>4510597
>>4510597
I dont know anything about Antwerp Royal Academy.

>Wish I could, but it's about a 7 hour plane ride and a whole visa away

That's a problem. Still you can try writing them an email and say that you are interested and if it was possible to send them pictures of your work and what they think of it.

I know some people that say you shouldnt show your work to them before you hand in your portfolio and others that say it is a good idea because then it will be easier for them to remember you(which may also be a bad thing), and they can see if you have improved in the meantime. Or maybe they forget who you are are and at least you got some feedback out of it.

Also every university rejects lots of students that could have been accepted. There just aren't many spaces in art academies. So a good part of it is luck. If you dont get accepted it may not because you are not good enough. Also probably most students will try a second or third time before they get accepted. Universities want to give the space to people who really want to be there and work.

Make your portfolio stand out. How you do this can really depend on what kind of art university it is.
If it's a more contemporary art school you can do crazy shit. I know someone, when you opened their portfolio, music would start playing, stuff like this. Don't hand in something that looks exactly like everyone's elses portfolio.

Know some stuff about art, including contemporary. Go to exhibitions. They will probably ask about that too.

>and that I am anxious about it

you dont have to mention that. i dont know. the rest sounds good though.
hand in sketchbooks and yeah showing them the process and your ideas sounds good.

[Anonymous No.4513317]

>>4510758
I've spoken to a few people and read around a decent bit, and they (Application board) look for people that can rationalise their designs, and explain the process, inspiration, etc. They look for people that can draw from various aspects of history, philosophy, art and what have you. Most of the time, especially for pre-Uni graduates, it's just some semi-woke bullshit that you can include an element or two of in the design, when sometimes it's just something that looks fucking good is all.

Still, amen anon. Also, that show was fucking class on a real.


>>4510939
>Still you can try writing them an email and say that you are interested and if it was possible to send them pictures of your work and what they think of it
I'd never considered that before, and now I definitely am
>Also every university rejects lots of students that could have been accepted
Cheers

>Make your portfolio stand out.
It's pretty much the most contemporary/avant-garde University there is when it comes to fashion (Graduates include Margiela, Haider Ackerman, Demeulemeester, Gvasalia, etc.), so I can go pretty wild honestly.
You know man, I had the most genius thought when I got fucked up transcended into hyperspace a couple weeks ago, and I still like the idea but still am wary of it now that I'm sober: I present the portfolio as a giant's diary of sorts. Giant as in the literal term, and a somewhat satirical metaphor for being, or aspiring to be, bigger than life, and I'd obviously elaborate and make those points clear through the presentation. With, potentially, the writings and sketches being being written by different parts of said giant's conscience and consciousness, coming together to form the whole of this giant's persona. I'd maybe add a lock and key to open up the 'diary' (Portfolio) and all that.
I love the idea, and feel strongly so about it, but I'm just not sure how that'll be perceived. Maybe I've just fried my brain too much, I don't know, but what do you think?

[Anonymous No.4514050]

>>4513317
>Maybe I've just fried my brain too much, I don't know, but what do you think
I don't have an answer but I can say I find it refreshing to see other artists talk about their stuff, it makes me feel less kooky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umoqd0VbRI4 (I'm just now finding out that Grimes is pregnant with Elon Musk's baby lol)

[Anonymous No.4514144]

>>4505331
If you're in fashion, get good at colors and big, simple shapes. Classical is a broad term, but if you can draw a proportionate body and detailed clothing folds, then use that to your advantage and maybe try a portrait in some sort of environment. Don't try to add too much detail or polish a turd, but maybe studying composition and showing what you know about art history could make things interesting.

[Anonymous No.4514361]

>>4513317
Stop fucking with psychodelics. It's an entrance portfolio. At this stage of your carrer you don't want to be "innovative" and neither people want you to be. People want to know that you are able to follow instructions, and create a decent record of your skills that show some talent and A LOT of will to learn. Be ambitious in your artwork. Even if you don't quite make it. Ambtion and conscious work always show.