/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4417703]

is this real?

[Anonymous No.4417709]

>>4417703
to a degree, yes.

[Anonymous No.4417718]

Now how about this?

[Anonymous No.4417722]

>>4417703
No, it's not real. The left is anatomically fucked. Unless right is implying all you need to be able to do is a basic standing pose and render it, then yes. This is real.

[Anonymous No.4417725]

>>4417703
ebin bait thread OP

[Anonymous No.4417727]

>>4417703
Girl in pink, look her right leg.

[Anonymous No.4417732]

you have to be able to feel the form to do either. now get to work.

[Anonymous No.4417737]

>>4417718

[Anonymous No.4417738]

>>4417727
what have you done?

[Anonymous No.4417999]

its true, first realism and thn stylization

[Anonymous No.4418021]

>>4417727
Fug

[Anonymous No.4418117]

>>4417703
Actually, yeah, there's probably truth to this. Because the right is easier to draw than the left, so if you don't even have the ability to draw the right then you'll struggle even more with the left. Especially if the right is from reference and the left is from imagination.

[Anonymous No.4418143]

>>4417709
this

/thread

Also, are these threads reportable yet?

[Anonymous No.4418150]

>>4417703
>If you want to learn how to draw stylized people
you need to learn how to draw real people

Seems pretty accurate to me

[Anonymous No.4418229]

>>4418150
>draws hobs without knowing how to draw real people

[Anonymous No.4418237]

no

[Anonymous No.4418245]

>>4417703
The right can be viewed simply as fundamental mastery to an intuitive and masterful level so if you want anime or anything you do in general to be better then knowing the fundamentals is a must. If want to design well then knowing the fundamentals to an intuitive level is must.

[Anonymous No.4418255]

Might as well make a better version

[Anonymous No.4418262]

i finally understand

[Anonymous No.4418267]

>>4417727
oh geez

[Anonymous No.4418300]

[Anonymous No.4418424]

>>4417703
T̶̛̹̦̥̥̀͑͒̂͂͗̓̈́̀h̷̢̧͉̭̞̮̳̮̊̆̌͗͐͒͐́͊͜͜͝ę̷̺̖͕̗̗̪̳̻̔́y̷̪̹̤̬̜̻͙͈̣͋͆͐͊̿͂͛̔ͅ ̷̡̯̜̼́̿̑̈̏̏̕͝ĥ̴͎́̊̐̔a̵̢̞̦̙͉̺̯̗͌̓̓̌̒̉́̀̄͂v̸̨͌̓̕͘e̵̢̢̧̧̛̦̩̦̥͔͒̀̾̈́̈̆̄͝͝ ̵̹̯̞͕̪̜̬̳̎́̆̈́̾̄̉̑ḃ̴̢̻̭̝̗̘̯̖̚ë̷͉͝ḛ̷̡̨̝̼̫̞̱̍͋̓̈̈́̋ṇ̶͕̫̮̱̺͎͍̞͍͒́͒̇͊̚ ̷̢̧̣̭̱͙̗͝ȉ̴̡̡̛̝̭͇̓̒̄̓͐̄̈̈͝ñ̴̥̗̘̻̻͕͈͎̺͈̋͂̊̀̍̃̿̌͜f̴͙͑͐̋̿́̐́̋̿͘̕ē̵̡͔̳̟͂̿̊̎̊͂̈́̆́͝c̵̥̩̈́t̶̳̥̠̘̞̘̻͍͔̤̑̾͒̾̿̑̾͋̈́͂ĕ̸̛̹̙̜̮̝̫̔̏́̒̓͛d̸̪̱̹̼̠̦̞̹͖̰́͛̀̐͛͠,̷̫̞̙͚͓͂ ̸̧̨̢̖̱̬̦̣̠͋̎̇̔͛̈́̔į̸̹̞̖̹͓̹͚͔̫̝̒̏̏t̵̡͈͈̯̼̻͙̘̟̋̂̎̾͊͗͂͗̓̀͌ ̸͍͇̈́̑̓͋͠ì̶̠͉̬͋̌͒͛̽̿͐͛̈́͝ͅs̵̠̤̭̩͚̬̾ ̶͙̤̟͎͖͉̙̮͆͒͌̌͋̄̉͘̕͝ţ̶̜̗̮͙̯̻̔́̆̾̑̂̊ő̷̗̦͙̝̤̣͜ò̸̧͇͙̺͖̜͔̍̚͜͝ ̸̡̢͓͖̬͓̥͚͓̈́͋͑̊̔̃l̵̛̯͚̱͎̳̳̝͎̥͆̆̏́̒̽́̔͑a̵̤̫̰̍͊̈͗̉͠t̴̰̜̏̒̎͆͑͝ȇ̴̻̜̦̼̃̈̐ ̵̰͆t̷̳͒̈́͝ò̶̧̳͓͚̯̤͉̯̞̓̒͂̊͒͐̔ ̴̻̘͙̤̰̾̾́̈̈́̽̕s̶͖͍̘̃͑̍͝ȁ̴̯͇̖̫͂̉̀̑̕͘̚̚v̶͚̥̦̱̙͕̼̊͘͜ė̷̛̠̫͓̜̒̀͂̄͛̐ ̴̢̩͇̾̈́̒͋̒̚͠t̵̤̥̘̹͔̃̓̈̏h̶̠̊̇̄͋̓̀̋̓̄͘e̶͚̩̯͖͉̭͐̈́́̾ͅm̷̛͚̗̍̀̓͗̈́́͑̍͘͠,̶̛̞̰͖͓̬̳̠̞́̂̾̚ ̶̡̡̨̼̣͒̂̓̀̈́̓f̸̡̓͝ä̸̡̻̼̬͖͎r̴̗͓͌̓̐̿̍̑̑͘ ̵̟̖͖̫̬̞͗͑͛̽͆̓̄̉ẗ̷̨̡̢̠͚̳̹̬͉̱́̋ó̶̡͚̬͝͝o̸̮͉̪̰͎̤͚̻̰̎̈̔́̐̍̉̚̚͜ ̷̳̀̐̍͊̄̈́̔͝l̶̯̾̿͐̓̚a̸̢̼͓̥̝̼͐͒̃̍t̷̢̻̗̺̻̞̪͉͊͐͗͐̀̓͜ḝ̸͍̪͙̩̟̘̙͚̾̓̿̊͌̄͐͑

[Anonymous No.4418671]

SPENT SOME LONELY DAYS AND SLEEPLESS NIGHTS waiting for you girl to hold me tight you run around like i do not exist played me for a fool girl you been so cruel GIRL YOU HAD ME LIKE A PUPPET ON A STRING girl without your love life wouldn't mean a thing girl the freedom that i gave you you based if you want my love girl you've got to choose

[Anonymous No.4418696]

>>4417718
OH NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.4419063]

>>4418255
stop being unironic

[Anonymous No.4419126]

>>4417703
The real issue is not being able to see how mediocre left is, pretty common occurrence on this board. No, you don't need to master traditional observational realism to draw basic digital anime. Most anime artists have mediocre drawing skills and hide it under that popular rendering style, only a few are true standouts.

[Anonymous No.4419131]

>>4419126
The left is not mediocre. I like looking at it. Therefore it's not mediocre.
If you have to go looking for mistakes that "prove" that a piece is "actually" bad even though it looks good then you are just being a dumb autist.

[Anonymous No.4419137]

>>4419131
You don't have to go looking for anything, it's right there in your face if you're not a total /beg/. Start with the retarded noodle fingers and the absolutely fucked right left that someone upthread already pointed out, also the general flatness of the image. It's okay to have mediocre taste, just call it for what it is. There are mediocre drawings that I like because the idea or the style is appealing, and you like this mediocre drawing because it appeals to your anime taste. Admit it now and you'll feel better.

[Anonymous No.4419145]

>>4419131
You just have a mediocre critical vision, that's all.

[Anonymous No.4419146]

You don't know how many people fuck up collarbones and ruin their entire piece because they didn't learn proper anatomy. Even the most fundamental shit like just knowing what bones and muscles exist in the human body will drastically improve stylized work and make your characters look less deformed or contorted.

[Anonymous No.4419172]

>>4419137
>noodle fingers
>flatness of the image
I am looking at the image and I see why you say those things, but it still looks good to me. Therefore those things are irrelevant to me as far as this image is concerned.
>you like this mediocre drawing because it appeals to your anime taste
I do like the drawing because it appeals to my anime taste. But BECAUSE I like it, it is therefore not mediocre. A mistake is only a mistake if it decreases my appreciation of the image. The concept of a "mistake" has no meaning outside of that criteria.
Obviously I don't just like every anime-style drawing. There's plenty of DA-tier anime that's horrible to look at. But that's not the case here.

[Anonymous No.4419188]

>>4419172
Here's the thing though: your taste doesn't decide what's mediocre. You don't decide that. All you're saying now is "this or that doesn't detract from the image in my opinion, so the image isn't mediocre." But those fingers ARE deformed, that leg's perspective and placement IS fucked, the drawing IS flat. Individual taste is always a factor, but the thread topic is about whether you need to be an accomplished draftsmen to draw standard anime, and so I repeat, no you don't have to draw like an atelier-trained master to make crappy Pixiv art. Your taste has nothing to do with how well drawn the image is.

[Anonymous No.4419190]

>>4419126
pyw

[Anonymous No.4419192]

>>4419190
post my foot up your ass

[Anonymous No.4419193]

>>4419188
>your taste doesn't decide what's mediocre. You don't decide that.
lol keep coping and grinding your anatomy studies while Sakimichan makes the big bucks

[Anonymous No.4419200]

>>4419193
The ultimate cope is thinking that because I call out a shit anime drawing for what it is that I must be a braindead Loomisfag. Guarantee my shit's more interesting than yours. This board is just bafflingly obsessed with imitating mediocrity.

[Anonymous No.4419204]

>>4419200
pyw, buddy.

[Anonymous No.4419208]

>>4419193
Pretty sure Sakimichan had to grind fundies. I could be remembering wrong since it was ages ago I either read or heard that.

[Anonymous No.4419209]

>>4419172
>I am looking at the image and I see why you say those things, but it still looks good to me. Therefore those things are irrelevant to me as far as this image is concerned.
>good to me
>irrelevant to me
>to me
Nobody cares what your opinion is.
Speak about objective measurable stuff or stfu.

[Anonymous No.4419223]

>>4419208
This isn't fundies vs no fundies. This is about what makes an image appealing and successful.

>>4419209
You are not worth engaging in a serious discussion with.

[Anonymous No.4419225]

>>4419223
No, you're making it about that retard. The thread is about whether you need to learn how to draw like right before you can draw like left. Pretty much nobody disagrees that left "appeals" to some people more despite having shoddier fundamentals.

[Anonymous No.4419234]

>>4419225
I had started a new discussion with that other guy about the inherent value/appeal of the left image.
My direct response to the OP was >>4418117

[Anonymous No.4419244]

>>4419200
>Guarantee my shit's more interesting than yours
post it then nigga

[Anonymous No.4419277]

>>4419223
>You are not worth engaging in a serious discussion with.
I win, nice.

[Anonymous No.4419286]

>>4419172
There should be an algorithm that detects dumb underage posts so I wouldnt get to see how retarded they are on a daily basis.

[Anonymous No.4419435]

>>4419188
Can we judge objectively stylized art?

>fingers ARE deformed
To say things like this, wouldn't we have to compare it to a personal standard, since it isn't a real looking hand?

[Anonymous No.4419459]

>>4419435
At least we can judge the leg position. I hope no one here defends that.

[Anonymous No.4419477]

>>4417703
are those drawing at least drawn by the same person?

[Anonymous No.4419480]

>>4419435
Perspective and proportions apply to stylized stuff as well.

[Anonymous No.4419506]

>>4419480
>Perspective and proportions apply to stylized stuff as well.

Does it?

[Anonymous No.4419510]

>>4419506
Sure it does. A realistically proportioned and convincingly 3D anime girl is usually going to be more appealing to look at than a flat scribbled mess.
But if something happens to be inaccurate about the anatomy/perspective then I don't go full autismo and say that it ruins the drawing, unless it's bad enough that it really does imact my immediate impression of it.

[Anonymous No.4419512]

>>4419506
Unless you like throwing shit at a canvas then yes, the fundamentals, even more so if you gonna distort your image.

[Anonymous No.4419552]

>>4419510
>A realistically proportioned
>anime girl
It sounds a little weird to me. Are we talking about the same thing here when we say proportions?

>>4419510
>appealing to look at than a flat scribbled mess
even tho most people would agree with you, isn't it just taste?

[Anonymous No.4419554]

>>4419435
The hands look arthritic. Maybe this artist just happens to like cute anime girls with deformed leper hands, maybe that's his thing, maybe it was intended, but it sure doesn't look that way to me. This is how it look to me: hands are tough to draw, many artists have trouble drawing them, this artist is one of them. There's no confidence or intent in that linework. Stylization ultimately is based on understanding of the subject, then intent in the design. Without intent, some kind of apparent logic behind a choice, anything goes. Who's to say some random /beg/ drawing isn't the greatest piece of art ever, because it's stylized? We can go down that path but I don't think anybody really feels that way deep down, there's standards about what looks good.

[Anonymous No.4419574]

>>4419512
>even more so if you gonna distort your image
how do we judge a image that distort proportions/perspective using proportions/perspective?

[Anonymous No.4419594]

>>4418255
sauce for left?

[Anonymous No.4419615]

>>4419574
Not the guy you're replying to. I'm >>4419554.

Here's what I'd call stylized distortion of perspective of and proportion. Your taste might tell you this is the shittiest drawing ever. Irrelevant. Even if you don't hate it, you might not like it, you might consider it plain old bad art. Doesn't matter. The point is, this artists knows what he's doing and is going for an effect. Frankly I doubt this artist could draw "as well" as the right side of the OP, which again isn't the point.
You can tell the artist intended the effect here because everything is drawn toward the purpose of delivering and enhancing the distorted effect. There's no hard cutoff point in art, it's somewhat subjective. You either fail or succeed to express the message in the eyes of others. And you don't want to be in a position where people even have to doubt you, it should be obvious what you were intending.

[Anonymous No.4419618]

>>4419574
By seeing if the objects in it follow the distorted perspective.

[Anonymous No.4419658]

>>4419574
If looks right then it’s successful, if it looks off then it’s wrong. There may be a little bit more to it like even if you stylize Anatomy the muscles still need to have proper insertions or likeness, like a caricature but in general if it’s not reading well to your eye then it needs to be fixed. Distortion, stylization, everything you put down should enhance the image, not detract from it.

[Anonymous No.4419749]

>apparent logic behind a choice
Isn't it subjective tho? What is apparent for someone might not be for someone else.

>Who's to say some random /beg/ drawing isn't the greatest piece of art ever, because it's stylized?
If some does think that it is, can we objectively say that it isn't?

>there's standards about what looks good.
There are, but are they objective?


>>4419615
>it's somewhat subjective
>>4419618
>By seeing if the objects in it follow the distorted perspective.
>>4419658
>If looks right then it’s successful, if it looks off then it’s wrong.
So, it is subjective then?

[Anonymous No.4419765]

>>4419749
Why are you here on the art critique board if your standards start and end at what you personally find appealing? Nobody can offer you anything. You're already a great master I'm sure. Now go out and wow the world, Michelangelo.

[Anonymous No.4419795]

>>4419749
Don’t confuse subjectivity with bad taste and a poorly trained eye. If you can’t get something right in the first place then you don’t have much of a choice on if you can include, omit or alter because your lack of knowledge has already decided for you. Hitlers pieces for example(his work get posted regularly here so you probably know what it looks like) is mediocre at best, with a poor understanding of perspective and values his images never read well and could never be compared to that of Sargent or zorn. Same as why all beginner works never look good because they have no understanding of fundamentals or how to draw for that matter.

[Anonymous No.4419802]

>>4418671
nipaaah

[Anonymous No.4419852]

>>4419594
Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn Visual Artbook (Final Fantasy XIV)
You can find it and others in the artbook thread

[Anonymous No.4419908]

>>4419765
>Why are you here on the art critique board if your standards start and end at what you personally find appealing?

* Many people here have the same taste that I have
* My art is not good for my taste
* I don't want to make art just for myself
* To have constructive discussion with people
* etc

>>4419795
>Don’t confuse subjectivity with bad taste and a poorly trained eye.
Poorly trained eye you mean that the person can't see the flaws? Sure.
Bad taste you mean a person care less about perspective that what I do? This is subject, no?

> Hitlers pieces for example(his work get posted regularly here so you probably know what it looks like) is mediocre at best, with a poor understanding of perspective and values his images never read well and could never be compared to that of Sargent or zorn.
I agree with that, but can we say that it is objectively true? Like even if we can objectively prove that the perspective is wrong. Can we objectively prove the amount of "badness" that it adds to the work if at all?

[Anonymous No.4419922]

>>4417703
retarded and retarded. Learbing fundies handicaps you if you want to draw anime. Just learn by copying.

[Anonymous No.4419925]

>>4419922
NGMI, good luck going in without knowing perspective.

[Anonymous No.4419944]

>>4417703
shading? no

drawing proportions dynamically? yes

[Anonymous No.4419977]

>>4419908
>bad taste
If all you eat is shit then how can know if something tastes better, if you surround yourself with bad art then you’ll never really know of anything that is truly better. Through altering a piece, drawing over, redoing something, or just having the experience and knowledge to visualize fixing the problems then you can easily prove how an image would look better. The line between objective and subjective blurrs a bit more as a piece becomes more abstract but a piece with better composition and better use of color and shape will be more attractive than a abstract piece missing these important aspects. Subjectivity has its place but there will always be unanimously better artists in every genre, there’s a reason why shit artists always talk about the “starving artist” while good artists get all the work or well paying jobs.

[Anonymous No.4419990]

>>4419925
>good luck going in without knowing perspective.
muh vanishing point
perspective is a meme and can be done without fundies

[Anonymous No.4420062]

>>4419977
>If all you eat is shit then how can know if something tastes better, if you surround yourself with bad art then you’ll never really know of anything that is truly better.
How do we know that we are not eating metaphorical shit? If we need to eat something else to know what shit is.

>Through altering a piece, drawing over, redoing something, or just having the experience and knowledge to visualize fixing the problems then you can easily prove how an image would look better.
But, would it objectively prove? What if the person don't think it looks better? If he ask why it is suppose to be better, can you answer it in a objective way?

>a piece with better composition and better use of color and shape will be more attractive than a abstract piece missing these important aspects.
How do you objectively define "better"?

>there will always be unanimously better artists in every genre
Unanimously literally? Even if it was literally, consensus is not objective truth.

[Anonymous No.4420067]

>>4419990
Haha.

[Anonymous No.4420111]

>>4420062
Like I said good artists get the higher paying and better jobs and commissions while a shit artist would normally not even make enough money to reliably or comfortably live off of, (except for a very very small percentage)
Unanimously everyone (unless you’re a contradicting brain dead retard) would agree illastrats work is garbage compared to any good portrait artist.

[Anonymous No.4420126]

>>4419990
lol, who said anything about vanishing points for perspective.

[Anonymous No.4420132]

>>4418262
KEK

[Anonymous No.4420135]

>>4418300
>>4418424
KEK

[Anonymous No.4420177]

>>4420111
>Like I said good artists get the higher paying and better jobs and commissions
>Unanimously everyone (unless you’re a contradicting brain dead retard) would agree illastrats work is garbage compared to any good portrait artist.

Even if it is true, what does it prove? Like I said consensus is not objective truth.

[Anonymous No.4420221]

>>4420177
Generally speaking, mass consensus is objective truth, the general public agrees Michael Angelo and Rockwell are two of the greatest artists of all time. But I mean if everything is subjective then you or anyone for that matter should have no trouble starting an art career, there’s no point in education or knowledge if it’s all subjective. Please prove there is no objectivity in art because you’re just naysaying at this point.