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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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File: 104 KB, 1280x720, dp is for deliberate practice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4378564 No.4378564 [Reply] [Original]

>hurr durr Anon, just deliberate practice!
I keep hearing Anons recommending deliberate practice.
But what EXACTLY do you do to practice that way? What's your practice routine, what exercises do you do and how do you check yourself to see if you're getting any better?

Or is it just another parroted advice that nobody here actually follows?

>> No.4378571

>>4378564
Pick up a fucking course, the entire course from start to finish.
Like Roberson How To Draw
The book starts with literally practcing to freehand a line and a circle.
Yes you're supposed to deliberately practice straight lines.

And then it goes through the entire perspective and some really complex geometry.

If you complete the course you become competent at drawing and now can start deliberately studying human and animal anatomy.

>> No.4378573

>>4378564
>he doesn't know the secret
It's okay OP, not everyone has to make it.

>> No.4378584

Have a goal. What exactly do you want to learn to draw? If it's a variety of subjects, pick one of those things and dedicate a study session to it. Observe photos and real life scenarios concerning said thing. Draw what you see. Compare your drawings to the thing you were observing - what is different about it? What can be made better? Try it again and again. Eventually you'll get better, as long as you learn to see where improvements can be made.

>> No.4378594

it means dont fucking auto pilot and try to figure out what ur doing wrong and fixing it

>> No.4378657

Read peak.
>focus, feedback, fix it

Do this until your brain gets damaged, never draw emptily thinking you'll improve, feedback is really important so you need a teacher or someone to give you proper guidance, and fix it is pretty obvious

>> No.4378744

>determine what you want to draw
>draw it
>realize it's shit
>focus on one of the many things that's making it shit
>study that thing, whether it's from life or art
>apply it to your next drawing
>rinse and repeat

>> No.4378858

>>4378564
I record myself drawing a particular thing somebody like vilppu, huston, scott eaton, etc. have also drawn and then compare it like it's a vidya replay.

so far still /beg/ shit so it's probably a shit idea

>> No.4379101

>>4378564
You don't need a routine. You just need to figure out mistakes in your drawings and try to fix them and not make those mistakes in future drawings. That's deliberate practice.

>> No.4379325

>>4378564
>find a teacher or substitute(like a course/book)
>assets your limits
>set a smart goal
>practice with focus
>get feedback
While doing all of that, you have to maintain your motivation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria

>> No.4382300

>>4378858
Thanks for the idea imma record my sketches on paint tool sai and post it here to get critiques

>> No.4382361

>>4378564
Fine, I'll explain it.

Daily "practice" of 70% on this board:
> pick up 10 balls
> scatter them on the field
> kick them towards the goal
> call it a day

Delibeate practice:
> mark a spot on the field
> put a ball there
> kick the ball paying particular attention to the way you swing your leg and where you hit the ball
> study the trajectory
> think how you can adjust the kick so you get it closer to the goal
> take the next ball
> put it in the exact same place
> try to accurately redo the kick but also adjusting for the mistakes earlier
> study what went wrong now
> do this a 1000 times
> now move the spot somewhere else
> repeat

>> No.4382444

>>4382361
But you can't redraw the same thing 1000 times, it'll dull you out as you just keep making the same mistakes.

>> No.4382460

>>4382444
Sure, but you ARE practicing the same thing a thousand times. Faces, perspective, anatomy of the leg, hands, etc. Every time you see what you did wrong and attempt to improve it next time. Not to mention most fundamentals are above the specific thing you're drawing. Can't draw without line quality, or perspective. Value gets in there regardless of whether you're drawing cats or landscapes. And so on.

>> No.4382461

>>4382444
>just keep making the same mistakes
That's it though. You shouldn't be making the same mistakes. That's deliberate practice.

>> No.4382514

>>4378571
What if i'm retarded and I can't read shit unless it's a comic book

>> No.4382545

>>4378564
THERE'S NO BOOK ON HOW TO KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DRAW LMAO

>> No.4382551

It's just a meme of this putrid board anon, just draw and eventualy you'll get good.

>> No.4382599

>>4378564
I practice during the boring classes at uni.

>> No.4382606

>>4378571
>freehand a line and a circle

> he fell for the circles and lines meme

Can you write? Then you can draw circles. Jesus how can people still think any of this shit matters.

>> No.4382607

>>4382606
>Can you write?
Stop bragging, just because you faggots can doesn't mean you should shake it so much. Not everyone is as gifted.

>> No.4382609

>>4378744
Learning from previous experience through analysis? Nah, that can't be right, that'd make drawing like every other skill.

>> No.4382610

>>4382607
Sorry I didn't know you were from Africa. We take writing for granted in the west.

>> No.4382621

>>4382599
literally me, i make it a note however, that while in class i can only practice hands. No matter what.

>> No.4382668

How come nobody here promote's Sycra's method of improving? He did a video about it where he iteratively spams out like 20 images on a page and with each one he pin points why it looks ugly and then tries again. Yeah, why isn't anyone recommending that method? I did it with hands and now I can draw a slightly better hand.

>> No.4382674

>>4382668
Because if you actually did it more than once, you would see how slow it is to do for every single thing you draw. Imagine having to do 20 iterations each object, image, etc. you have to draw. You might be 100,000 drawings in before you're anywhere competent. But then again, never tried that long, only a few hundred. It works, but not really because you'll reach your own wall like anatomy and not be able to pass it. You could try to fix a pose, but you'll never be sure it's right unless you decide it's "right".

>> No.4382675

I always encourage tracing.

>> No.4382715

>>4382606
You are absolutely retarded if you think making small marks for handwriting is comparable to longer ones for drawing.

>> No.4382722

>>4382675
Then you're a charlatan. Tracing is as inefficient a learning tool as it gets. If you're going to copy at least learn how to do it by eye, ffs.

>> No.4382728

>>4382722
Depends. For the very beginners, it works by showing them that they can actually reproduce the lines. Call it ghosting but with training wheels.

>> No.4382741

I'm not sure, OP, because my progress was a really slow burn until my HS years and shortly afterward. Since I'd been drawing a lot all my life, when I got truly introduced to fundies in HS I picked them up fairly quickly, and then I just kind of practiced them until I understood them well enough. Then after that I would practice them from time to time. Stuff like doodling to loosen up, practicing draftsmanship by drawing a bunch of circles, shapes and lines as accurately as possible, drawing boxes and forms and spiral spheres and whatnot to practice construction/form drawing. My practice has been fairly schizophrenic and aimless and I did very little life drawing at all, mostly JUST DRAWING from imagination and reading and studying books to get my anatomy and figure drawing knowledge.
Basically I autistically grinded my fundies until they sort of made up for my lack of life drawing. I'm living proof that JUST DRAW sorta kinda works sometimes, but it's really friggin' slow.
I'm kind of a retard, sorry to say.

But what I'd do if I could start over would be to get my fundamental skills locked down tight first. Line control first. Then learning to draw what I see to break symbol drawing and to improve my ability to accurately judge size and proportions. Then learning perspective and construction by drawing simple solids, organic forms, and such. Drawan boxes, basically. Then I would work on my constructive anatomy- Loomis, Vilppu, whatever.

Now I'm not saying grind line control and drawan boxes for over 9000 hours before going to the next step, but so long as you got the concept down, you can just bust out a little line control practice and box/form drawing as a warmup before getting to the nitty-gritty. They don't have to be a drudgery, either. I've got my line control in the bag, but I'll still doodle and draw boxes and forms and things for warmup and I like doing it because it's fun. Like playing with legos. And it contributes to keeping my line control sharp.

>> No.4382750

>>4382741
And it's not as if you can't do this a little out of order, I would say maybe you should get introduced to all the concepts at least, but the bulk of them should be in that order. At least as far as I know.
To my thinking, it's harder to draw from life if you're struggling with line confidence and control, and it can hinder the next steps as well. And if you don't know how to draw what you see, when you try to draw boxes and such you'll be mired down by symbol drawing habits. And if you can't even intuitively draw a box in perspective without screwing up, how the heck are you going to learn to construct the more complex forms of the body, or anything else?
Oh, and I almost forgot to mention gesture drawing. Two kinds, actually- gesture from life and gesture from imagination/construction. Gesture drawing from life to force yourself to get the figure from reference/life down quickly and accurately. Imagination gestures are a little different, they're much simpler figures (but still with construction in mind) that you draw to help you to draw more loose, lively figures from imagination.

They're pretty closely related, though. When you don't have any real idea of construction, naturally your gestures are just going to be copying the lines of what you see. When you understand construction and perspective and think of drawing as drawing inside the page instead of on top of it, it changes your gestures a bit even when drawing from life. you won't just copy the lines of what you see, you'll have depth and form in mind as well. You'll be recreating the figure constructively somewhat instead of copying a flat image of what your eyes see, and thereby understanding it more thoroughly.

>> No.4382753

>>4382728
You know what, that makes sense. I just have bit of a knee jerk reaction to it because whenever I hear it from anyone it's either being suggested as a shortcut for making finished work that one isn't skilled enough to make yet or something equally harmful.

>> No.4382915

>>4382361
> take the next ball
> put it in the exact same place
> try to accurately redo the kick but also adjusting for the mistakes earlier
> study what went wrong now
Wait. If I'm practising proportions by doing gesture drawings I should keep drawing the same reference until I get it right? Instead of trying my best each time with a different pose?

Huh. That sounds like a good idea and it will change dramatically how I use sites like quickposes. Thanks Anon!

>> No.4382917

>>4382741
pyw.
It probably sucks.

>> No.4382921

>>4378564
Imagine being this fucking stupid.

>> No.4382985

>>4382921
pyw

>> No.4383029
File: 646 KB, 720x720, 1563251329347.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4383029

>>4382917
Ok
See >>4382884

>> No.4383032

>>4382915
I'm not saying you shouldn't be trying new things. Far from it.

But taking your gestures examples, there's two things to examine:

1. The act of making gestures. Regardless of the pose, the act of drawing a gesture doesn't change. Practicing gestures on different poses is drawing gestures over and over. That's good. It'll teach you how to draw gestures and how to examine a pose you've never seen before. The deliberate aspect of this practice is you looking at the gesture and thinking "Generally speaking, where did I struggle? What did I do wrong?" And then make sure you don't make the same mistake on your next gesture.

2. You should definitely be redoing gestures you've already done. The deliberate part here is "For this specific gesture, with this sort of pose, and this sort of angle, and this gender, and this body shape, where did I go wrong?" Then redraw the gesture and, again, don't make the same mistakes.

This is how you learn anything you want.

>> No.4384231
File: 196 KB, 432x444, 1562444572775.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4384231

>>4378564
I take screenshots of porn frames and do a line sketch, then separately a value study, then I force myself to color pick manually and paint it full color with nothing but a completely opaque hard round. Maybe it's the wrong way to practice but I think it helps me. Girlfriend is totally fine with me painting porn every night and supports my gains. Porn is just good figure/anatomy study

>> No.4385066

>>4378744
Here's a (You) because this is basic common sense that people apparently don't have