>Professional artists mentally visualize the finished work on the canvas and then just trace over their mental image until it's finished Is this really how the pros do it??

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Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:22:02 2019 No.4238829 [Reply] [Original]

>Professional artists mentally visualize the finished work on the canvas and then just trace over their mental image until it's finished

Is this really how the pros do it??

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:22:50 2019 No.4238831 Yes

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:23:58 2019 No.4238835 >>4238829 sorta

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:29:29 2019 No.4238839 >>4238831 >>4238835 Are you guys trolling me? I thought that was a meme.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:31:50 2019 No.4238843 >>4238839 >aphantasia claims another d/ic/k F

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:38:19 2019 No.4238848 >>4238843 I don't have aphantasia, but tracing your imagination and even perfectly imagining an image sounds superhuman.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:49:09 2019 No.4238858

>>4238835
Alright, I always thought that Artists were meant to have an imagination anyway. I’m capable of imagining detailed, complex finished images but I lack the technical skill and understanding to actually execute them as they appear in my mind.

This doesn’t sound superhuman at all. Are you telling me that people cannot imagine vividly what they want to draw? If I asked you to imagine a dog, could you see it properly?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 10:51:31 2019 No.4238859 >>4238829 those jeans look filthy. i want to smell them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:00:50 2019 No.4238863 File: 10 KB, 540x383, bannedinsouthkoreabutnotnorth.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4238858 >imagine a dog Here you go. No reference. Just a mind's eye.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:02:35 2019 No.4238865 >>4238863 photorealism

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:10:20 2019 No.4238869

>>4238858
your imagination and a 2D surface are two completely different things. If an experienced artist tells you that they are able to paint/draw something from a mental image, its a mix of their visual library and previous experience, and very far from what you would call simple imagination.

In summary if you train alot your visual library and method library gets bigger, buts its never the same as that "vivid imagination" you have as a child.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:12:23 2019 No.4238871

>>4238829
I know some artists have described their process like that. But certainly not all.
Obviously good artists aren't born with an ability to perfectly visualize and then trace, otherwise they would just be perfect from the beginning and there would be no visible improvement in their work and artistic education would be pointless.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:16:02 2019 No.4238876

>>4238829
No, that is usually not at all how professional painters operate. Depending on the motive, you create a few drafts beforehand and carefully arrange your composition. After you have an idea of where you want to go, you draw (or paint) a more detailed study, using models when necessary. When that is done, you carefully transfer your final draft to a larger canvas. When that is done you paint over that and iterate until the painting is completed. That is usually the "classical" process.

People with a mental image strong enough to literally "trace" over it do not exist to my knowledge. Experience allows you to approximate that kind of skill (by learning clichés and arranging them to your liking e.g. >>4238863
), but I see no evidence that a neurotypical mind is capable of that level of imagination. Even the most proficient painters of the past usually iteratively drafted their paintings.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:23:13 2019 No.4238886 >>4238858 >Are you telling me that people cannot imagine vividly what they want to draw? Yeah >If I asked you to imagine a dog, could you see it properly? Nope, I see nothing

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:25:10 2019 No.4238887 File: 2.18 MB, 204x360, talent doesn't exis-.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4238871 >Obviously good artists aren't born with an ability to perfectly visualize and then trace, otherwise they would just be perfect from the beginning

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:26:09 2019 No.4238888 >>4238863 White girls fuck dogs (and nogs)

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:31:51 2019 No.4238895 >>4238863 Wtf, nice alinity fanart.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:32:24 2019 No.4238897 >>4238887 Is that supposed to be impressive? They're nothing but a series of superimposed circles and basic shapes that even a toddler can recognize.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:38:47 2019 No.4238901 >>4238897 you described a good art

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:46:40 2019 No.4238906 >>4238829 No, there is a huge amount of planning before hand. composition, value and thumbnail studies are all done before working on a studio painting.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:48:51 2019 No.4238910

>>4238887
Sorry can't watch webms on mobile.
There are prodigies at everything. There are 12 year olds studying physics at Oxford. So what? Does that mean it's impossible to learn a skill if you're not a prodigy at it? No, it just means you have to work at it like the significant majority of people do.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:48:53 2019 No.4238911 >>4238897 I have never seen a kid draw this good in my life(irl), post your toddler work.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:57:52 2019 No.4238921 >>4238910 >can't watch webms on mobile lmao what kind of cucked phone is this???

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 11:58:21 2019 No.4238922 >>4238921 IPhone

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:00:32 2019 No.4238925 >>4238922 kek

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:07:23 2019 No.4238936

I suck at visualization. Everything seems to be so far away and dark when I try. Sometimes I get a little bit clearer "flash" but I have to be quick if I want to catch my thought and put it on paper. I also almost never control it. Do you have any tips on how to get better at this? I feel so restricted right now.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:13:18 2019 No.4238944
File: 6 KB, 225x225, 1F90B7CA-0EE2-4BAE-B270-89E3FA784513.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Someone redpill me on ADHD as an artist. I literally cannot do and complete a myriad of studies without getting up and doing something completely unrelated or browsing /ic/ and shitposting. I just can’t fucking sit still no matter how hard I try.

My mind literally wanders when I’m reading an Art book and I completely forget about what Loomis was talking about and just read it all again. Yet my brain loves to visualise and fantasise amazing drawings that I could potentially make.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:17:06 2019 No.4238949 >>4238944 Literally me. Loomis isn't just suited for us anon. It's better to walk the road of trial and error and learn through other anons ridicule.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:19:32 2019 No.4238954 >>4238944 I can't sit through a 22 minute episode of ecchi anime anymore without opening 30 tabs, not looking at them, then doing it again

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:22:29 2019 No.4238955 >>4238936 You have aphantasia. There's no cure for it you just have to study harder. Sorry.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:26:15 2019 No.4238960

>>4238944
Every time you continue a behavior it gets reinforced until it becomes a habit. It's more likely that you just built this pattern up over time. If you get an ADHD scrip, ie amphetamines, you will know right away which it is. If it's bad habits you'll probably jerk off for 5 hours with 40 porn tabs open while shitposting.
Try meditating and be aware that it takes conscious effort to build new habits and suppress old ones.
Good luck anon

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:34:58 2019 No.4238969

>>4238944
Take notes when you're reading. Draw along with the book, copy the images down, as if you're borrowing it and want to retain as much as possible from it before you have to return it.

Set aside dedicated study time, say one hour, in a spot that is only for working. Turn off your wifi and dont turn it back on until times up.

Aside from that stuff I don't know what to tell you. Hope you can get focused in on studying somehow so you can draw the cool stuff you're thinking about

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:49:48 2019 No.4238984 >>4238829 Only those with talent

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 12:52:01 2019 No.4238989

>>4238955
From what I read, people with aphantasia can't imagine anything voluntarily. It's really hard for me and certainly not clear but I can get a sense of an idea far away in my head... I mean, I can't see things when I close my eyes but oddly enough when they are still opened I can get a rough picture of something. I also generally recognize people so, I don't know. Is it really aphantasia?

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 13:34:21 2019 No.4239041

>>4238887
This looks like normal kid drawings to me. Her line control is pretty good for how small she looks but there's nothing very impressive about the drawings themselves. Typical kid symbol drawing. She probably just draws a lot. Then again most mental talent just comes from doing something a lot as a kid.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 13:39:33 2019 No.4239045

>>4238944
Draw for fun since you clearly want to. I'm guessing you stop yourself or don't indulge in this much since you probably suck. Turn that off and just draw a lot every day. When you get frustrated reference stuff. After enough time sunk into making shitty drawings you'll start genuinely wanting to study more with concrete goals of how you want to improve. Studies will be easier if you trick your brain into caring.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:22:41 2019 No.4239087 >>4238829 No.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:31:38 2019 No.4239098 >>4238944 There's no such thing as ADHD. You just need to discipline yourself.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:55:38 2019 No.4239130

>>4238989
Nope, aphantasia can be anything from no imagination/no dreams at all, to barely functioning "fuzzy" or far-away looking things in the imagination. It's the catch-all definition for under-performing imagination. If you can't see things in your head clearly, you have it.

Also it does not extend to face recognition as the mind's eye part of the brain is totally separate from the recall portion. People with face-blindness still have functioning mind's eye as well, by the way.

tldr if your imagination is fuzzy, you get rough pictures instead of clear ones, it means your minds eye is underactive or dysfunctional, and you have aphantasia.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:56:41 2019 No.4239132

>>4238829
That's not how our mind works, sadly.
Our mental images aren't really images, but more like gifs, they keep moving and parts keep changing.
All you can hope to do is play the same gif over and over again and just focus on that one frame whenever it plays.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:58:05 2019 No.4239135 >>4239132 That may be how your mind works. Not everyone is exactly like you, you know.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 14:59:26 2019 No.4239136

>>4239130
>tldr if your imagination is fuzzy, you get rough pictures instead of clear ones, it means your minds eye is underactive or dysfunctional, and you have aphantasia.
You literally can't have non-fuzzy imagination.
Stop misleading others into thinking they have a condition when they don't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 15:00:49 2019 No.4239138 >>4239130 >tldr if your imagination is fuzzy, you get rough pictures instead of clear ones, it means your minds eye is underactive or dysfunctional, and you have aphantasia. Then everyone has aphantasia

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 15:03:16 2019 No.4239140

>>4239135
Our brain doesn't work in still images, since our world doesn't know still images.
The eyes are always recording, there is no snapshot function.
When you recall a past experience, whether partial or not, you can't recall a picture because there isn't one, it's all movement.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 15:17:23 2019 No.4239160 >>4239136 >>4239138 Under-active is under-active. Sorry you are in denial :(

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 15:21:55 2019 No.4239164 >>4239130 >>4239135 Daily reminder you have to be over the age of 18 to post on 4chan(nel)

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 15:26:14 2019 No.4239165 >>4239130 Wow this is dumb. Having a mind's eye so good you can trace it is EXCEPTIONAL. Having mental images that are less clear than your actual sight is NORMAL. Why would the majority of people have a mental disorder, it makes no sense.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 16:00:12 2019 No.4239192

>>4239041
Are you stupid? Most kids older than her can't draw for shit and just do squigly lines, don't be an asshole dude, that chink toddler is amazing for the age she has, don't act though here faggot, at that age You where still crapping your pants and carving your nose while drolling like the retard you are.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 16:20:19 2019 No.4239223 how the fuck do i close my eyes and see things??

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 16:20:52 2019 No.4239226 >>4239223 If you can't then you have aphantasia. :)

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 3 20:31:19 2019 No.4239487 >>4239223 If you don't see things in your minds eye while reading or listening to a story then you have aphantasia.

Anonymous Tue Dec 3 21:09:34 2019 No.4239518

>>4238858
I think your imagined image is actually incomplete in your mind. Its not that you cannot turn the drawn into reality its that the mental image itself has an allusion of completeness. The visualization isnt really tracing its more a process of hyper efferent construing where as the image is created instantaneously

Anonymous Wed Dec 4 00:31:49 2019 No.4239728

>>4238829
I wouldn't say so. I'm no professional artist, but what I've heard many of them talk about in their interviews is that they have an idea and inspiration can hit them mid-way through a painting or drawing and they will add that inspiration into it. I too, echo this when I'm working on a piece.

Many times when I've 'finished' a piece it will not feel finished to me and I'll come back to it after some time has passed and add details to it that I never imagined. Just brushstrokes or color to embellish the emotion I'm feeling at the time and the emotion that I originally wanted to emulate in the beginning of the piece.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 00:33:53 2019 No.4239731 >pro artists just trace their imagination WOA What a bunch of cheating liars

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 00:53:03 2019 No.4239753 File: 90 KB, 1280x720, 1561521133975.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4239130 >People with face-blindness still have functioning mind's eye as well, by the way. That would be me!

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 03:16:33 2019 No.4239863 >>4239192 Is this true? I guess I had talent. I'm gonna make it anons

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 03:42:57 2019 No.4239886 >>4238829 No.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 04:44:14 2019 No.4239925 >>4239160 misinformation spreading nigger

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 22:45:32 2019 No.4241232 One random artist I've spoken to says when they're really focuses they can see glowing white lines on the paper.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 22:50:25 2019 No.4241240 >>4238887 >asian parents train unthinking toddler to repeat specific mechanical motions on paper to get sweet sweet Internet approvation points Yeah Im sure this baby is gonna be a great artist in 20 years

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 23:04:30 2019 No.4241252 >>4241240 Only if he recoveres from his inevitable alcoholism, chainsmoking and third suicide attempt.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 4 23:34:30 2019 No.4241287 >>4238829 Visualization is very important, but even KJG has said his best visualizations are far from perfect and never quite match up with how he envisions them.

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 5 19:54:00 2019 No.4242490 >>4238863 Hot

>>	Anonymous Thu Dec 5 19:56:37 2019 No.4242494 >>4238848 some people have a stronger imagination

Anonymous Fri Dec 6 19:22:30 2019 No.4244057

>>4239518
>an allusion of completeness
at first I thought you meant illusion, but yes, that too. It's weird thinking about brain in terms of brain structures 'talking' to each other.
It's an illusion if you think about it on high level and an allusion if you think about it on a lower.

One of the methods of learning to lucid dream is focusing on details in your dream and noticing they are lacking.
Our mind is perfect in filling in the blanks so that we don't notice. We see sharp image only in small % of our field of vision yet we seem to see everything clearly. When you turn your gaze towards a clock first second seem to be twice as long, why? Because our brain fills it backwards(!) in time.
So part of learning how to draw X is learning what you don't know progressively rooting out false assumptions about it.

>a process of hyper efferent construing where as the image is created instantaneously
can you explain what you mean in more plain language for those of us who don't study neurology

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 7 03:52:31 2019 No.4244476 >>4244057 >One of the methods of learning to lucid dream is focusing on details in your dream and noticing they are lacking. Weird, my lucid dreams are always super vivid and detailed, almost more so than real life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 7 03:56:59 2019 No.4244480 >>4238829 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CAlo0IU-UI Take a look at this video. This guy works for riot. And he is talking about how he uses references up the ass for his art. /thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 7 03:57:55 2019 No.4244481 >>4238863 wtf anon

Anonymous Sat Dec 7 16:40:02 2019 No.4245225

I've tried it, I can do it with simple shapes, but anything more than that and the image won't stick in the same place on the paper.
I am pretty convinced that it can be done, though. Has anyone gotten better at doing this specific thing through practice?

Anonymous Sat Dec 7 18:16:31 2019 No.4245314

>>4244476
>my lucid dreams are always super vivid and detailed
I didn't mean when you are already lucid dreaming, I meant what can trigger the awakening.
I get that you can have very strong images and sensations while lucid dreaming, but if you become scatterbrained it all starts to lose detail or might repeat itself etc. That's what happens when you go from detached to active observer / creator. You can't see things that you aren't looking, just like you can't surprise yourself with a chess strategy. Until you relinquish control and then aforementioned glitches occur.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 8 02:00:07 2019 No.4245726 >>4238863 https://youtu.be/ulhZvWDdIlY

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 8 07:52:32 2019 No.4245964 File: 12 KB, 225x225, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>4238897 >>4241240 >>4239041

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 8 08:21:52 2019 No.4245986 >>4244057 >can you explain what you mean not that anon, but it means that even though you can't hold the full image of, say, a dog in your mind, you can learn a set of processes and algorithms that you use to "build" a dog on a canvas.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 9 04:32:09 2019 No.4247415 >>4238897 >>4239041 >>4241240 /ic/ is jelly of a fucking toddler Absolute state

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 9 04:35:27 2019 No.4247421 >>4238887 This is absolutely precious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 9 15:29:43 2019 No.4248016 >>4238829 Isn't this why people do pen exercises? To force the brain to contemplate wtf it's doing before going gung-ho into automatically constructing without a plan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 9 20:26:06 2019 No.4248376 >>4238829 I dont visualise it on the page itself, I can just see it as if I have another screen (that just happens to be in my minds eye).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 10 16:41:17 2019 No.4249834 >>4245964 anon, those crabs are hard boiled.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 10 17:17:14 2019 No.4249896 >>4239925 PYW

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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique