Steps to Anatomy; What are they?

[Anonymous No.4217294]

To put it simply, I'm wondering what are the steps that it takes to be able to get to the point where you can start to learn human anatomy without wasting your time.

I do understand that it's pretty meaningless if you have no grasp on gesture or form but then what are the steps before that?

It's extremely vague and no one really creates an accurate guide to getting to the point where you can study anatomy efficiently rather than placing anatomical forms onto lifeless, 2D, chicken-scratchy lines.

People say things like, "you don't have enough mileage yet before learning anatomy" but what does that even mean? If all I could draw is boxes in perspective, how else am I supposed to get that mileage?

I've come up with a list of steps, that I've been still trying to figure out, from my experience. Hopefully other people can correct/remove/add onto the list:

1. Lines (Straight Lines/Curves/Ellipses/ect.)
2. Form (Contour Lines/Wrapping Lines/ect.)
3. Perspective (1PP/2PP/Boxes in P)
4. Gesture Drawing
5. Figure Drawing
6. Anatomy
7. Becoming Glen Vilppu
8. Becoming like Anon on IC

I'm not even following this list but it was my preconceived list when I started to realize that fundamentals were important and that doing copies for 500 hours wasn't actually going to make me good at drawing.

Hopefully someone can give me better direction.

[Anonymous No.4217326]

>>4217294
You could go your whole life without a day of anatomy as an artist.
Even though it's a frustrating answer there are no steps or carriculum, you dive into something when you want to improve in a specific way.
By the way, you shouldn't only draw boxes.
If you don't jump into the deep end you will never know how you actually fair and what you need to work on.

[Anonymous No.4217337]

>>4217294
youll get better at it if you just try. if figure drawing feels intimidating to you, try studying gesture drawing first. as you get the principles of line of action and establishing a pose very quickly, itll help you.

also try to draw from life as much as you can, its better than drawing from photos

[Anonymous No.4217341]

>>4217294
someone around here has copies of artbooks- ive found bridgman's to be useful for breaking down the parts of the human body into more geometric shapes

[Anonymous No.4217342]

>>4217326
I've currently been studying portrait drawing and learning how to draw a skull at different angles as well as learning the anatomy of the skull and the head.

There's always doubt. Like if I'm studying the wrong thing. What if I need to learn another exercise before doing portrait drawing? Wait, should I learn gesture drawing before learning portrait drawing? But that doesn't make sense.

It's just a little seed of doubt that continues to be watered as I crank out the shit drawings of these skulls and features of the face.

I know that I can improve if I do at least 100 of each as I've done previously when I used to do copies (i.e. doing 100 skulls at different angles or doing 100 Loomis heads). But I always have this doubt that I'm studying drawing wrong and that my way is not the most efficient way.

It probably stems from the fact that I like to be organized and analytical and want to calculate everything I do.

I actually have 300 documented hours of doing copies from life--that was how calculated I was about drawing. I created at least 70 to 80 schedules and lesson plans on how to learn drawing more efficiently but I end up just finding out that they are ineffective once I start to spend a few weeks (or even days on them).

I'm just wondering if other people had doubt or if they had the privilege of having an instructor so that they knew exactly what to do.

(I am sticking to portrait drawing for now since I really like the topic but that doubt doesn't seem to go away no matter how much I try to tell myself that it doesn't really matter.)

[Anonymous No.4217343]

>>4217341
I think that really only works for intuitive artists that are already pretty decent at drawing, not for people who have never drawn in their childhood.

[Anonymous No.4217344]

when people say "you dont have enough milage" theyre talking about "line miles." basically how much youve practiced and drawn the same thing over and over again in order to understand it.

[Anonymous No.4217346]

>>4217344
I felt like they were talking about drawing in general, not exactly drawing the same thing.

[Anonymous No.4217349]

>>4217343
i guess thats true- if you have an artistic base and hit a wall artbooks can and do help, but its probably not that useful for more raw beginners

[Anonymous No.4217350]

>>4217337
I'm not entirely sure if that works. I've done 30 straight days of figure drawing (starting from 5 second figures up to 1 minute--adding on 2 seconds everyday) and I just started to get more frustrated than comfortable with the whole figure drawing thing.

[Anonymous No.4217352]

>>4217346
that also makes sense

i had an art teacher explain it like "a sketchbook is a level and each drawing is exp. go level up." and it was kinda cringe but it still works as a thought.

draw what you like. draw what youre interested in. draw badly, cause itll be bad and you need to allow yourself to be bad, but also try to figure out the things youre doing right as well.

[Anonymous No.4217360]

>>4217352
Maybe that makes more sense.

Find something that you want to draw and keep drawing it until you're good at it.

Though, while it's flawed in many different ways, I can see how it can work.

I've tried doing just copies from life but I don't think it really worked well.

Currently I'm studying how to draw the skull from different angles by rotating it in SketchFab and drawing it. Hopefully by the time I reach 100 skulls, I'll at least be comfortable at drawing thee skull.

Though I am learning the anatomy of the skull which makes it a lot easier to notice things you haven't seen before and therefore draw the skull more accurately.

It seems like both drawing what you want to draw but approaching it analytically helps in being able to learn to draw something--which combines both the intuitive and analytical side to drawing.

[Anonymous No.4217368]

>>4217350
thats a natural part of it! perhaps something that could help is taking a stack of post its and noting the pieces you like, and specifically pointing out the elements that succeeded. just from this one picture i have a few suggestions-

youre focused on the outline of the figure, which is nice, but it contributes to the flatness of the percieved drawing. Also, i personally think you should try to include the head more in your pieces, as the head/face is an important part of a gesture and its a good habit to get into. A potential help would be changing to a more "unweildy" medium, like conte- the way a conte stick works it forces you to use your entire arm when drawing and you internalize the structural shapes. Also, I assume youre drawing from life and you should definitely keep that up- drawing from life typically also means youre in an art class context and you can hopefully get some one on one help to help direct you.

you have a good sense of shape, especially for someone who describes themselves as a beginner- what specifically do you find lacking about your work? where do you want to improve?

[Anonymous No.4217369]

>>4217342
Bob ross in the last episode of the the joy of painting talked about that doubt and said I hope you will be plagued with it.
This doubt keeps you on your feet.
Instead of having qa carriculum, look at your drawings, understand what you aren't doing right, and fix that. not in milage, in the same drawing. Sit on 1 drawing for an hour, 2, 3, 4, and try to think it through.
>>4217350
Looking at this you don't actually understand space
It's something that's supposed to click. You can actually feel it click, and without that fundemental understanding of what art is you won't make it far.
try to really sit and thing what you are doing
You are representing 3d forms and space on a 2d plane using the Z axis who goes from the origin to the center of your vision.

[Anonymous No.4217373]

learn to draw any kind of figure/forms : boxes, circles ovals anything once you can grasp the forms you use them to construct everything how the fuck is that so hard to understand ughhhh.

[Anonymous No.4217380]

>>4217368
I like the idea of collecting old drawings and pointing out what worked; haven't actually thought about that. In the photo I posted, I did like how the lower legs looks on the bottom right figure. It's exactly how I'd like to continue drawing legs without haven't to get lucky.

I did draw with the arm with all of these. I've never actually drawn with my wrist/fingers since I've stopped drawing digitally.

I'm not even entirely sure what I want to improve. My end goal is to create characters for Visual Novels as I enjoy writing more than I enjoy drawing; though both are cathartic.

Sometimes I get frustrated when trying to draw something or copy it and it ends up looking nothing like what I've observed. Not sure how I could improve on that or if I even should. Maybe I should prioritize construction over copying (and here we go again with the doubt).

[Anonymous No.4217396]

>>4217380
definitely prioritize construction over copying. the point of copying someone else's style is to figure out how they constructed it. thus, if you dont know those basic shapes (cone cylinder pyramid cube sphere) copying someone else's style isnt going to be as helpful.

good luck anon! remember, constructive critique should go like this: point out something you legitimately like about the art. be specific. then point out things you think didn't work. again, be specific- if you can pinpoint why something isnt working itll help you fix it in the future. and then third, end by restating something that you legitimately liked about the piece.

so while you provide constructive criticism, remember that your own criticism should follow the same format. understanding how you succeeded is just as important as understanding how you failed

[Anonymous No.4217398]

>>4217369
This was before I studied perspective. I don't even think I would have been able to put proper wrapping lines around these figures even if they let me touch them when I was drawing these.

This 30 day figure thing really came from me getting frustrated that doing 300 to 500 hours of copies from life didn't really bring me anywhere.

[Anonymous No.4217404]

>>4217396
I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

[Anonymous No.4217410]

>>4217398
remember that anime is a style, not a goal in itself. dont use anime style as a crutch, understand it as a way of depicting a 3d figure that theoretically would exist in reality. when seeing something like this ask yourself- what 3d shapes are constructing this character?

[Anonymous No.4217411]

>>4217373
Like this babe?

[Anonymous No.4217412]

>>4217294
Ah, I see you've discovered drawabox.com too OP

[Anonymous No.4217415]

>>4217411
those are good line confidence exercises, but theyre not studying shapes as 3d objects. these exercises will help you draw a smooth or precise line. I'd personally use these as warm ups and then go into a representational piece (so like a figure or still life)

[Anonymous No.4217417]

>>4217410
Ah, yea. This was ages ago.

I prefer a semi-realistic style more than the derpy faces of anime.

Sycra talks about what you mentioned in this video: https://youtu.be/qlKRNmGKCC4

[Anonymous No.4217421]

if you think drawing is something you can just go down a list then i have some bad news for you...

[Anonymous No.4217422]

>>4217412
Actually, the exercises here are from Peter Han's Dynamic Sketching Course.

I didn't start including DAB exercises until much later.

[Anonymous No.4217424]

>>4217421
Not sure how this is implied.

[Anonymous No.4217427]

>>4217422
i do like that book- its a fun workbook style art thing and those perspective cube exercises are handy for figuring out how to depict space on a 2d surface

[Anonymous No.4217434]

>>4217427
I think Marshal Vandruff's Perspective Video Series + D'Amelio: Perspective Handbook COMBO is much better than trying to figure out that space problem than drawing a bunch of cubes.

Though I slowly started to realize that doing exercises like these alone isn't what's going to help me get better at drawing. I have to actually draw to get better at drawing not grind out a bunch of exercises.

[Anonymous No.4217437]

>>4217422
consider this is how the now deleted course on human anatomy from drawabox.com looked

[Anonymous No.4217442]

>>4217437
yeesh pages like that are nonsense if no one explains what the pictures are trying to depcit

[Anonymous No.4217454]

>>4217437
I'm sorry but it kind of tilts me when people try to teach other people how to draw while using painting rather than drawing traditionally.

I personally don't think it's fair to a beginner if you try to teach them how to draw and you abuse the line tool--which is something that the DAB guy does A LOT. Does he even have the ability to draw a good straight line without the line tool?

I'm on a rant, sorry. I just don't like the methods that experienced artists use to teach beginner artists because it feels a bit pretentious.

[Anonymous No.4217564]

>>4217411
like the other anon said those are for line confidence

this is what i mean

draw whatever cubes cones, cilindres practice by drawing them in different angles do the blue lines i did i dont remember what it is called but do that shit that thing helps a fuck ton to see in 3D once you are fucking confident to the point where you can see the most minimum error in symmetry then you are ready to go to construction afte that point it's nothing but grinding that's all.

>anime shit
the point is that you can construct whatever once you understand 3D forms and it's easier to see mistakes sure you will still make some but you should be able to fixed if you have the knowledge duh.

[Anonymous No.4217645]

>>4217564
Cheating with diagonals

[Anonymous No.4217649]

>>4217398
guy who answered you before
this post does nothing but show your lack of understanding of the basics
you are trying to copy lines instead of understanding structure.
I'd recommend to get a teacher

[Anonymous No.4217663]

>>4217294
I feel like there is not one point where you just learn all of anatomy. It is something you learn in stages as you grow as an artist.
When you start as a beginner and do some figure drawing, you will start to get some basic bare-bones anatomy knowledge from observation. Then as you continue learning you might crack open Hampton and learn the relationships between landmarks and basic muscle groups, like how the pectorals connect to the sternum connects to the sternum and clavicles and the deltoids. And as you keep on drawing, you'll learn that may be insufficient for your purposes and you learn even further in depth, and do detailed studies of how arm and leg muscles work, practice understanding the forms of the muscles, and etc. My point is that there is no one step where you "learn anatomy," you should be in an ongoing process of learning it to suit your needs.
If you are still not confident with drawing figures, like >>4217350, it won't help you to study all the arm muscles, but it will help you to learn the basics of how the ribcage and pelvis construct the human body., and how the limbs connect to them.

[Anonymous No.4217675]

>>4217343
How do you study and grind intuition and what book?
Typical /ic/ analytical approach that is ngmi

[Anonymous No.4218041]

>>4217663
LoveLifeDrawing had a section on that. Would be good to go through it.

[Anonymous No.4218046]

>>4217649
With all the information out there, I don't see why anyone would have to go out and get a teacher.

I understand that it could help you improve a bit more efficiently but it seems like you're trying to put little roadblocks that you know will trump beginners in order to discourage them from continuing rather than giving actionable steps that can be done by anyone as long as they put in the work.

[Anonymous No.4218047]

>>4217675
Since you're so smart, what do you recommend?

[Anonymous No.4218569]

>>4218046
Sounds like you had some shitty teachers anon, if they're good they help you see how to improve and help you do it. I can understand not wanting to pay for a teacher, but I think having a teacher is generally a good thing