/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.4097450]

what's the most insane amount of gain you've seen somone achieve in a few months period?

[Anonymous No.4097452]

Lunatic Mode: It has to be someone from /ic/.

[Anonymous No.4097465]

>>4097450
Algenpfleger. He went from beg to pro in like 6 months.

[Anonymous No.4098722]

>>4097450
It could be you anon if you draw and do fundies 16 hours a day.

[Anonymous No.4098728]

>>4097450
gains goblin

[Anonymous No.4098746]

>>4098722
To think I believed this shit.

If you're not talented it will take you fucking forever.
I could paint for another 10 years 8 hours a day following all the best courses and I would still be shit. Then the talented person says I just wasn't working hard enough while he posts screenshots of vidya high scores.
There's always a wildebeest who runs slower than the others, there's always a kid who's fucking stupid and a kid who is smart. You see it when they do the same things, they're trying just as hard. One is just better, and the other doesn't make it.
This witch hunt against talent is just to encourage delusional forever consumers to enroll in stupid art degrees and buying tutorials, books and other useless shit for as long as possible before they realize there's no getting good, not *that* kind of good, if you don't have talent. Of course the guy who's selling you a fucking tutorial will tell you there's no talent, that's about as stupid as a rock band telling their fans to kill themselves.

And it's completely harmless to delude yourself that talent doesn't exist and you can get "good" until your idea of "good" is a bit too good and you think you have a future in it. So you can't even blame anyone but yourself for not reading the fine print.

[Anonymous No.4098768]

You know how those guys really improve so rapidly?
Their executive function and working memory are great.

Want to improve executive function?
Quit gaming, drugs, porn, caffeine, idle internet usage and basically anything else that wastes precious attention, dopamine, and time.

Want to improve working memory?
Dual N-Back

Get good nutrition and sleep, some exercise etc. Be a healthy high IQ person before grinding away at cubes for 16 hours and barely making the same progress as a smart person could in 1 hour

[Anonymous No.4098770]

>>4098728
This and Shadman.

[Anonymous No.4098810]

>>4098746
How often do you draw anon?

[Anonymous No.4098812]

>>4098728
kek

[Anonymous No.4098844]

>>4098746
Fucking lies. Why do faggots like you come here just to bring down other people? You're the definition of a crab.
>I could paint for another 10 years 8 hours a day following all the best courses and I would still be shit.
Let me pose you a simple question as an experiment
Say you want to draw a dog but you have no idea how to. You have a shitty drawn dog, then logically you pull up ref, and draw a better dog with that ref. You have now, say, learned how dog legs are shaped and a little of their basic anatomy
That single detail, even if all you learned was that ONE detail, isn't that progress? If you can remember things this way (humans can) and learn how life works then why do you say you'd work for 10 years without progress? I don't think you're mentally disabled are you? Even if for every painting you learned just one small thing you'd still be getting better.
>talent
Art isn't fucking athletics or sports, you can't be born simply superior to others that way. Everything you can do is learned and every single person that got good had to work for it.

Look if you're discouraged for real, and not just shitposting for (You)s, at the very least don't go around saying "you'll never make it if you're not talented", if you absolutely need to be negative keep it to yourself and don't bring anons down. But even to yourself that mentality is poison and you're shrugging off responsability by using talent as an excuse as to why you're not good. Nobody guarantees you can become KJG, but nothing is stopping you from getting good.
>inb4 I am shilling for tuts/books/courses
Lmao you can be 100% self thought, you don't need that much shit to get good, also cgpeers exists.

[Anonymous No.4098846]

>>4098844
GMI

[Anonymous No.4098852]

>>4098844
Based.

[Anonymous No.4098856]

>>4098844
Based and GMIpilled

[Anonymous No.4098865]

>>4098844
Based post. I better go practice.

[Anonymous No.4098906]

>>4098844
could you post your work?

[Anonymous No.4098927]

>>4098844
talent is the reason why Dave Rapoza made it before he turned 19 while you and your art will completely fade out of existence when you die.

[Anonymous No.4099071]

>>4098844
>Art isn't fucking athletics or sports, you can't be born simply superior to others that way. Everything you can do is learned and every single person that got good had to work for it.

you telling me any low iq inbred with a cgpeers account can draw like this?

[Anonymous No.4099078]

>>4099071
even if it's exactly like sports-- people might not be able to become gold medalists, but if they train 15 hours a day, they might be able to get in.
:)

[Anonymous No.4099087]

>>4098927
>but mmmmuhhh talent WAHHHH
He has a video explaining his journey and motive to get good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4tttsdhn8o
He isn't talented, he was driven by necessity and busted his ass working all day to get good, is that talent?
The only "talent" is being driven, disciplined, and conscious of your goals and the path you're taking

[Anonymous No.4099090]

>>4098768
Start masturbating.

[Anonymous No.4099094]

>>4099078
theres a thin line between overoptimism and stupidity

[Anonymous No.4099102]

these kind of threads should be deleted on sight

[Anonymous No.4099111]

>>4099087
>>4098844
Post your work please. You are a pro, right? Please show me all the hard work and how it paid off.

You didn't even read my post. Anyone can get competent, yes. But competent doesn't matter for shit. You need to be on another level.

[Anonymous No.4099112]

can I see examples of people's quick progress?

[Anonymous No.4099161]

>>4099111
>PYW
I won't, and you can stop using this meme reply right now, because all it does is show you can't counter an argument at all, use it against some retard claiming to be a pro, not in an actual discussion
If you want to discredit me then ACTUALLY give me a reason anything I said is wrong, do you not find the dog example clear? Or are you one of those neuroplasticity memers? What part of learning do you see as magical or that requires talent?
>If you're not talented it will take you fucking forever.
No, if you're not conscious or don't ask yourself questions it will take forever. People make no progress because they draw boxes all day or do figure studies without thinking what they ACTUALLY need to do to reach their goal. Or draw a hour a day thinking it's enough to match the pros that inspire them eventually. People lack direction and discipline, not talent.

>But competent doesn't matter for shit. You need to be on another level.
You mean, YOU want to be on another level. Well like I said, no one guarantees you will be great but you can always be good, and as far as most people go, reach your goals. That being said
What are your goals? Maybe post some names. I am curious as to how good you would like to be considering how unreachable you think it is.

[Anonymous No.4099178]

>>4099161
>No, if you're not conscious or don't ask yourself questions it will take forever. People make no progress because they draw boxes all day or do figure studies without thinking what they ACTUALLY need to do to reach their goal. Or draw a hour a day thinking it's enough to match the pros that inspire them eventually. People lack direction and discipline, not talent.
This tbqh. You learn more when you try to make the art you actually want to make, and learn to fix each mistake you make as you go, so the next piece you create can be even better. Not to say studying and grinding isn't useful, but you need to actively apply your studies too.

[Anonymous No.4099179]

>>4098844
>>4099087
>>4099161
Absolutely fucking based.

[Anonymous No.4099202]

>>4099161
>I won't
You're just an enthusiastic beginner. You are in the perfect position to BTFO the stupid crab by posting your professional portfolio. But it's ok. Keep consuming buddy, see you in a few years when you get a reality check.

[Anonymous No.4099239]

>>4099161
>>4098844
I know who this faggot is. Your work is ok but you haven't improved in ages. Stop typing walls of text and do something (I should get the fuck out too)

[Anonymous No.4099241]

>>4099239
Who is it?

[Anonymous No.4099273]

The truth is that there just isn't enough academic knowledge about how much a persons inate ability to learn or age or natrual born talent influences their outcomes. It would be cool if there were more studies on it.

[Anonymous No.4099558]

>>4098746
>it's a "frustrated anon posts a sob story about talent unprompted outside of the vent thread" episode

>>4098844
And like clockwork someone swoops in to make an optimistic counter post

Several people in this thread should stop spending so much time here, including me.

[Anonymous No.4100047]

>>4099202
I got called intermediate by this very board
>blah blah more ad hominem ignoring my post

>>4099239
If you're not thinking of someone else then come out and say it "there" AKA where you can message me personally and tell me how I didn't improve in ages.
I invite anyone to actually have an argument over how I'm wrong, if all crabbed up faggots can do is tell me POST WORK and call me a beg with an air of superiority, then all the better, shows I'm fucking right and they can keep slurping up their own sad ideology

[Anonymous No.4100122]

>>4099558
Yeah sorry for not sticking to the vent thread. I'll do that when I feel like ranting.

[Anonymous No.4100260]

me

[Anonymous No.4100288]

>>4097465
I'm glad there still are people such as you around, the retard here don't care for art if it was not made by a gook. Algenpfleger is a major inspo of mine, it's good to see people still remember him.

[Anonymous No.4100364]

>>4100122
It's cool man, it's just there for a reason.

[Anonymous No.4101026]

>>4098768
>quit porn
>quit caffeine

Porn and caffeine are the only reason I can draw for 12 hours a day without burning out lol.

[Anonymous No.4101417]

>>4098844
>Art isn't fucking athletics or sports, you can't be born simply superior to others that way. Everything you can do is learned and every single person that got good had to work for it.
Fucking lies you won't go far with technique alone.

[Anonymous No.4101592]

>>4098746
talent is merely the coincidental alignment between what you are able to intuit in an obvious capacity and the demands / expectations of the domain you're operating within.

what defines intelligence is how you handle encountering demands and expectations that are beyond what you are already capable of. if you shrink away from the challenge you remain an idiot. if you confront a problem repeatedly until you solve it, then you will grow. it is that simple.

[Anonymous No.4101612]

>>4098844
Based, you are the kind of a guy we don't deserve.

[Anonymous No.4101626]

>>4101026
This. I jerk off twice a day to keep my mind clean.

[Anonymous No.4101709]

>>4101417
Ngmi

[Anonymous No.4101939]

>>4101709
This people are hopeless anons, they don’t believe in their selves that they can also reach that level with enough determination and grinding.

[Anonymous No.4101967]

>>4097450
>could have been me
>try harder for 3 months and did insane gain
>then spent 1 month playing DmC5 then Sekiro
cucked

[Anonymous No.4101975]

>>4098844
beside the last two sentences this is really something darkshine could have said kek

[Anonymous No.4102308]

>>4101939
>>4101592
reminder that you haven't posted your work

[Anonymous No.4102313]

Please someone post some examples of people having insane gains

[Anonymous No.4102321]

the anatomy is ass in both pictures, but for 6 months this seems pretty good. Also judging from the likes on deviantart normies don't care about correct anatomy as long as it's rendered half good.

[Anonymous No.4102322]

8 months whatever, same thing

[Anonymous No.4102600]

>>4101417
>you won't go far with learning alone
do you think before posting?

>>4102308
pic related you dropped this picture of yourself

[Anonymous No.4102685]

>>4098746
if you paint 8 hours a day for the next 10 years

there is no way you're not going to get better unless you just jackson pollock that bitch or don't put any effort into it

[Anonymous No.4102785]

... What are people who supposedly know how to make it doing on /ic/?

[Anonymous No.4102800]

>>4102785
F-fuck off crab! I KNOW all the truth about making it, I'm j-just quite not there yet... I only need a few more years of grinding.... oh look there's a new video out by McArtGuru, maybe I will get an edge this time by looking at him paint! He's talking about painting the effect of ice being melted by a steel beam at 6.45AM, just 15$ to unlock this knowledge to use in my portfolio... I feel it, I'm SO close, I'm almost good enough to get hired at chingchong mobile games! I will finally laugh at the blackpilled crabs when I'll enjoy my hard earned unsalted peanuts!

[Anonymous No.4102898]

>>4102785
If you stay out of the beginner and shitposts threads you'll find there are people who made it on here. Seeing as how you're in a designated shitting thread right now though, you probably don't go looking for them and would rather shitpost.

[Anonymous No.4102916]

>>4100047
i love you, man, keep doing you

[Anonymous No.4103470]

All of you are grindig for the wrong reasons, that's why you cant keep up the motivation

[Anonymous No.4103476]

Why does /ic/ always try to find reasons they can't make it?

[Anonymous No.4103862]

>>4098844
>Art isn't fucking athletics or sports, you can't be born simply superior to others that way
>You can have a considerable edge in sports because genetics can provide you with better muscle or aerobic capacity
>Yet somehow. Cognitive functions and intelligence somehow work on a mystical plane and don't rely to any extent on a physical organ such as the brain which is totally not affected by genetics
I'm on the side of the argument that hard work prevails over everything yet somehow sounds like you were intentionally trying to prove yourself wrong with your shitty analogy

[Anonymous No.4103895]

>>4098746
If you paint 8 hours a day for the next 10 years you'd have gained 29.200 hours of practice.
That's 3 times the amount of what is estimated to become a professional level at something.
I don't think most people have that many hours in a certain hobby unless it's their job as well.

[Anonymous No.4103925]

>>4103862
I see your point but I don't think measuring that isn't as easy as for physical activities. Being born taller is an objective advantage in some sports, but how can you say for sure how intelligence and genetics impact art, which isn't quite an "exact" science, and many things aren't as easy as "memorize all this text"?

[Anonymous No.4104041]

>>4103925
>Using standardized tests, psychologists assessed general intelligence and specific math skills of the children at eight years old. When the subjects reached age 26, information on their income, social benefits, educational qualifications, and career success was summarized into a comprehensive wealth index.
>The researchers tested whether math abilities or IQ explained the negative consequences of very premature birth on adult wealth. They concluded that IQ was a better predictor of life course economic success.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190314111017.htm
>Scientific sources like Nature argue that "what most people know about intelligence must be updated,” and popular media including Vox itself reports on the "mountain of research showing that it's a genuinely powerful predictor of your health, prosperity, and well-being.”
This is not to justify never trying, but natural aptitude, talent, intelligence, are real factors that matter. There are mangaka who die from overwork who are not nearly as good as the top artists. In a saturated field such as art right now, adequate does not cut it anymore. There are not enough seats for anything but excellence.

Motivationanon should read that post again and understand that the argument was never "you can't learn, never try", it was "you can't make this a career unless you have an extra gear".

[Anonymous No.4104043]

CAN I PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

SEE SOME EXAMPLES

[Anonymous No.4104096]

>>4104041
That is true, but I'd still say people massively overrate what intelligence does in an art context.
And I'd say that "extra gear" is more of a result of upbringing and circumstance than genetics.

[Anonymous No.4104142]

>>4098746
These two both play Major League Baseball. What’s your excuse.

[Anonymous No.4104146]

This thread already went to shit so
>discover love for art in my mid-20s, health is shit, decide to do art or die trying
>go NEET and draw literally all day for years to git gud
>study as hard as time/health allows
>draw from life, draw from imagination, read books but only keep them as a guide, never hoard just practice, follow the methods, do all the routines the right way, if something is missing I practice, always try to do stuff out of my comfort zone, always try to balance grinding and personal work
>try to push stuff online periodically, 0 response
>got to a point where I regularly forgot to sleep/eat, I still have reminders to avoid drawing into the morning, develop health problems from drawing too much
6 years layer excluding the burnouts
>Anything elaborate or challenging I make is straight up embarrassing and I hate it, only maybe 1 in 30 drawings I make is acceptable enough to post online and even the cream of the crop is still subpar. Most of my finished works I never posted and never will and they're just sitting there until I trash them.
>Still cannot draw concepts like foreshortening that I practiced regularly for years. I regularly draw kangaroos.
>Submit stuff for review and people tell me to "practice the fundamentals" or say "it's not that bad, another 3-5 years and I can see you getting good", sometimes I even got told to pick up Loomis like they perceive me as someone who just started or has no clue.
I don't want to get into the broad issue of talent or destiny 'cause I think it's different for everyone, but this is the most soul shattering shit I have ever been through, and I've been through a lot. I wanted to make it more than anything else, but at this point I'm just trying to accept that I have to give up.
I had to take breaks due to depression because of this, now even with zero motivation I draw about 6 hours a day. I'm barely average. I see people half my age do the things I do much better with almost no effort and it breaks my spirit.

[Anonymous No.4104174]

>>4104146
>Still cannot draw concepts like foreshortening that I practiced regularly for years. I regularly draw kangaroos.
Anon, how do you plan your drawings?
Do you directly draw large or do you plan your drawings with thumbnails first?
The secret is to draw small first and get the proportions right and then scale up to large.
Smaller your draw, more copies you can fit on a page and easily see what you did you right and what you did wrong with each iteration.
I used to directly draw large for years and that was a hit and miss.
Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.4104184]

>>4104174
I always make thumbnails and sketches then work them into something larger, which usually falls apart halfway in. It's not for lack of practice 'cause I try to do this a lot. I just end up trashing the attempt at the finished picture and posting the sketch.
I think when something comes out right in the final drawing it's more about luck than being skilled enough to pull it off. Sometimes I have to do something that is just too hard, I get frustrated trying for hours, and end up changing the drawing into something simpler just to get it done.
Usually when I post my sob story I get all sorts of replies implying I have been studying "wrong" for 6 years. Maybe it wasn't a perfect regime but I wasn't drawing with my pencil upside down all this time. Then someone asks me to post my work, I post my work, I get something encouraging like "keep going anon you will get better" 'cause I think people here are well-meaning after all, but it's really empty advice when you've been drawing so many years. There's no special technique I haven't discovered yet that is holding me back from progressing, drawing is all about basic stuff and mileage.

[Anonymous No.4104198]

>>4104184
Maybe pyw this time then, it's hard to give advise not knowing what your current level is.

[Anonymous No.4104208]

>>4104198
I've done it too many times and I'd rather not get attention since I post regularly. It won't change anything anyway, just picture a random intermediate you would scroll past in the drawthread.

[ta-kun No.4104234]

>>4097450
My own

[Anonymous No.4104235]

>>4104208
This board isn't called 'artwork and good things said about them'. People here will rip apart pros simply because 'critique' is in the title.

[Anonymous No.4104378]

>>4104235
Ironically I rarely got bashed on /ic/.
Unpopular opinion but I think /ic/ is way nicer than social media lol, they bash on people like Ruan Jia for the memes / gossipy fun but I'm sure they recognize it's all nitpicks; people on the low/mid end usually get encouragement unless they're being dishonest.
People in the real world will give you a token compliment or ignore you simply because it's rude to say you're shit, this is clear when they're in a position where they can safely express a preference, they'll say "this blows the other thing away" without thinking twice. You can't blame algorithms, or other stupid stuff like people don't know what they're looking at unless it's promoted.

[Anonymous No.4104497]

>>4103925
>It's really hard to measure the effect of better genetics' impact on the brain and intelligence in art
>Therefore it doesn't exist
>>4104096
>It's easy bro
>Just break the boundaries of time, space and reality and change the events of this timeline to have your very own soul born in a better upbringing environment all while putting in place more favourable circumstances through your entire life bro

[Anonymous No.4104569]

IQ tards are stupid only because they stonewall themselves so desperately to self-fulfill their own prophecy of failure. Meanwhile level-headed people just do what feels good, study as needed, and attend to their mental well being as the issues arise. If IQ or something similar does exist at least you pushed hard enough to know that adversity is real. Even then you'll still have an interesting time if you aren't determined to waste it.

Seriously learn to work on your mental issues if they are holding you back. Artwork isn't limited to highly technical mastery. Popularity shows the opposite. The real issue is giving power to toxic ideas that only make you miserable and stupid.

[Anonymous No.4104571]

>>4104569

I measure my skill based on replies on /ic/

[Anonymous No.4104683]

>>4104146
>>4104184
Do you like drawing? Do you have ideas you want to express outside of studying? Do you ever get inspired to make something?
I'm just trying to understand how this can be. I'm neutral on the idea of talent, I really don't know whether it's real or what it even is if it's real.
Maybe I don't share your high standards, maybe I'm deluded, but I've been satisfied with my progress over the past year+ and I feel haven't reached my potential. I'm optimistic about drawing, usually. But it sounds like you don't enjoy it anymore. Did the simple act of doodling ever bring you any joy, or was it only the thought of getting good that motivated you?
Sorry if it sounds like I'm being critical or probing too much, I'm not trying to. But I don't think you're studying wrong, based on what you're saying. It just sounds like depression is getting the better of you. The issue may be a mental one more than an innate one. I think we too often disregard that factor, but it's been shown having a positive attitude toward a task encourages improvement.

[Anonymous No.4104709]

>>4104683
>it sounds like you don't enjoy it anymore.
>Did the simple act of doodling ever bring you any joy, or was it only the thought of getting good that motivated you?
I love drawing and getting good was only in function of communicating better. But I always wanted to put the art out there too. I never factored in the possiblity that I would never get good and nobody would connect to my work, so all I'm left with is the doodling and a huge void that get bigger with disappointment. My enjoyment is poisoned because drawing for me was always tied to connecting with others, and possibly making a living from it because I like it so much I don't want to do anything else with my time. I have to lean to cope but I was never good at it.

[Anonymous No.4104720]

>>4104709
this is why you have a backup plan. also it seems sketchy someone can truly love something thoroughly and remain bad at it. maybe you like artwork other than your own? maybe you're clinging to the idea of art and not the reality of it?

[Anonymous No.4104722]

>>4104709
This resonates with me. I love drawing and it hurts that I don't think I'm getting better at it.

[Anonymous No.4104726]

>>4104722
you can literally solve the technical problems in the same way as any science/ maths/ sports. seriously wtf are you doing with your study time if you don't even see long term improvement. if you're massively depressed you need to deal with that separately.

[Anonymous No.4104729]

>>4104726
I've seen improvement between now and a year ago but I'm feeling like I'll never get to a decent level. It's noticeable improvement, but my work still looks bad.

[Anonymous No.4104732]

>>4104729
bad how? standards rise way above real skill.

[Anonymous No.4104736]

>>4104732
>>4104729
rather, if it looks bad you're not solving enough problems. likely ignoring aesthetics like nearly every other technical-skill worshipping faggot on this board.

[Anonymous No.4104741]

>>4104720
I like my art, or at least the direction of it. It's got my influences in it and I draw the way I like the best, medium etc. I don't know about the ins and outs, I just like drawing with no hidden motives.
At this point even if I discovered that I've actually been practicing wrong all along I don't think I could endure more years of grinding for (probably) no results.
And this isn't even just about skill, I see artists my level or even below doing just fine. It's something deeper than just being not technically good enough.
I'm just tired. I just want to find a way to draw in peace.

[Anonymous No.4104748]

>>4104732
>>4104736
There's still loads of stuff I can't do both technically and aesthetically, and looking at what I make next to what other people make it's still painfully clear that I'm absolute beginner-tier.

[Anonymous No.4104756]

>>4104741
Can you post some of your work? I'm incredibly curious. I mean if you already post here anyway. But hey, if I'm opening old wounds, then fuck me. But it doesn't even sound like you're bad? It just sounds like you didn't get popular off of your art. In which case, join the crowd. There's 10 artists in obscurity for every one who blow up, and that's probably underestimating it. And a lot of that's down to social skills and luck, not pure meritocracy. I see some incredible artists with less than 1k followers. It doesn't reflect badly on you. Also, if you have weird taste and don't draw porn or fan art, your odds are even worse. But there's usually someone out there who will appreciate it still.

[Anonymous No.4104758]

>>4104709
You dedicated 6 years and didn't make an effort to actually have a professional guiding you. All people wanting to learn seriously languages or music take lessons but barely anyone on this board is determined enough to seek guidance. This shit is hard, you're gonna go in circles and reinvent the wheel and it will take you 20 times more time than with a feedback from someone who knows what he's doing, and the less experienced you are the more feedback you need. You need basics hammered into your head and book can't explain what exactly you're doing wrong on your own example. If you're serious then get a good teacher, it's not easy but it's gonna save you lots of time and frustrations.

[Anonymous No.4104767]

>>4104758
What. Plenty of people learn languages, how to play music, and how to draw without teachers. And I mean, they get GOOD at it. Maybe not world class (1% of the 1%) but you're being ridiculous here. Hell, it arguably takes more dedication to do this shit day in and day out without instruction. Not that anon btw.

[Anonymous No.4104771]

>>4104748
i doubt you've put much effort into understanding aesthetics. a lot of fine artwork can be made with very low technical skill if you're pursuing the aesthetic experience. either way your situation sounds more like you just have no idea how to study.

[Anonymous No.4104773]

>>4104771
Do you have any advice on how to study in that case?

[Anonymous No.4104792]

>>4104773
6 years of poor yielding study is proof you can't rely on yourself to get anywhere. seek a professional.

[Anonymous No.4104799]

>>4104792
I think you got me confused. I'm not >>4104146

[Anonymous No.4104819]

>>4104756
I don't believe in this. I know those good artists with sub 1k followers, they're too busy working to care about social media. I know artists who draw weird stuff that is way more niche, they do fine. I think of you have merit, success will find a way without counting in any of the gimmicks. I convinced myself for a time that it was all about marketing or other factors, it's all a coping mechanism.
I don't like social media and I always neglected it but despite a generous push by popular users even my best stuff never got anywhere. If I made portfolio tier work consistently every few days I could maybe get a following but I'm just not good enough to pull that off.
So yeah I think if I can't produce consistently good work I'm actually bad.

>>4104758
>You dedicated 6 years and didn't make an effort to actually have a professional guiding you.
Most of the teaching at this point is just courses. NMA, Schoolism. I don't have some 500 dollars to blow on private feedback but I've done those and contacted professionals every milestone for feedback / reviews. They told me encouraging things like a generic 'keep going' and that's it.

[Anonymous No.4104828]

>>4104799
oh, well regarding aesthetics it's similar to soul in that it's accumulated through experience. you can't give someone good taste. you have to cultivate it. which is what separates it from a skill.

[Anonymous No.4104873]

>>4104819
>I think of you have merit, success will find a way without counting in any of the gimmicks.
>What is the just-world fallacy?

Anyway, it's not something you need believe in, they exist. Some of them are old pros who never got deep into social media, true, but many more aren't getting as much work as they'd like (if any) just because they can't meme as good as some Twitter porn shitter. It's not even hard to find loads of these guys. Go looking through Twitter Following lists, eventually you'll stumble upon a practical network of guys who are good but not popular. Why? Who knows, a thousand reasons. A million. The simplest explanation though is that people aren't even thinking about them, they're not aware of them, and they don't care. It's hard to make it as an artist, not sure why that seems unbelievable to you. You think there aren't a million great actors in LA that we'll never know by name because they're too short or too ugly or they just weren't at the right place at the right time, or because they refused to kiss ass? You have to really force people to care about your art over a long period of time and it still may never go your way. Because life's not fair. Doesn't mean you can't find personal fulfillment in what you do, but that I leave to you.

[Anonymous No.4104888]

>>4098844

[Anonymous No.4104907]

>>4104767
Ok let's not nitpick, yeah you can immerse yourself in language and self study pretty easily, idk shit about music it seems complex but to play an instrument and create something appealing you maybe don't have to have classical education. But if you don't have a good understanding of basics in art it's immediately visible. Fundamentals are hard to grasp without feedback based on examples. Even talented and hard working selfdidacts will have some gaps in knowledge and that's quite visible because even with good sense you can't reinvent all the conclusions that are work of artists in many centuries. If you're very conscious and hard working learner you can get to a pretty good level but constant feedback from a competent artist would surely boost the learning curve significantly.
>>4104819
I don't have experience with online courses but I believed that ones you mentioned were good quality. Maybe you chosen courses by artists that are not good at teaching. Kinda shitty to not get an actual crit and tips of you're posting for it. Another way is to befriend someone and ask them to take you under their wing. If I had a friend I liked and they were very serious about learning I wouldn't mind giving them crits and teaching, it doesn't require that much effort in person, though typing all that stuff is pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.4104920]

>>4098746
i know how you feel. i grinded for years just to get to a point where everything i make has no "soul," no heart, no point to exist. i go green with envy over beginners who can make something charming. why even live

[Anonymous No.4104940]

>>4104907
I literally don't know what you're talking about man. What do you have in mind, like Ruan Jia level concept art or something? Atelier-academic drawing? Maybe you need teachers for that but pretty much all the artists I admire (very good illustrators or cartoonists) are self taught or don't credit their skills to their education, especially if it was a modern American art school education. Art is not just about technical wankery, you can definitely make very high-level, original, and appealing work with "merely" good or great (not exceptional) fundamental knowledge. Who said anything about reinventing conclusions? Self taught doesn't mean cutting yourself off from the store of knowledge, no, you just study it on your own and use your brain, eyes, and good sense to make up for a lack of formal instruction.

[Anonymous No.4105342]

>>4099078
sports doesnt work that way. You can get to elite amatuer status at most sports through work ethic alone, but to become a decent pro you need talent. I say this as someone who lived the gig for the last four years, and knows countless pro's and top level amatuers. At the top level of anything, talent sperates the wheat from the chafe.

[Anonymous No.4105396]

>>4104497
>it doesn't exist
The point is you can't prove it exists. You're just placing your own reason for failing into something nobody can prove isn't or is real so that no one can prove you wrong
>Just break the boundaries of time, space and reality and change the events of this timeline to have your very own soul born in a better upbringing environment all while putting in place more favourable circumstances through your entire life bro
Or *gasp* just work for it. You have the internet, learning art is more accessible than ever for a lot of the population.
Y'know, kinda like everyone who became a pro had to work for it, too.

[Anonymous No.4105429]

>>4104940
I mean that without a teacher and consistent feedback most people will go in circles, improve pretty slowly and still not grasp every concept. There are self taught individuals that are pros and that's why you still sometimes see quite silly mistakes in their work. But for every one of them they're are tons of self taught artists that didn't go anywhere. I just don't understand this aversion, it's your big passion and you want to become pro but don't want a teacher. Just look around this board to see where lack of direction and instruction leads. Knowledge passed down and explained to you gonna give you a stable frame of fundamentals to later build on it and guide you whenever in doubt. Having someone to explain shit is gonna improve your learning curve and get out of plateaus faster.

[Anonymous No.4105431]

>>4098746
It's not really a matter of time so much as hitting those pachinko slots in your brain right. You have to keep working until it just "clicks" and everything else falls into place.

[Anonymous No.4105457]

>>4105429
Okay what mistakes is, say, Dave Rapoza making? I have nothing against teachers, I just don't buy this hard distinction you're making. You seem to think traditionally taught artists are infallible gods or something. Anybody can make mistakes and what usually matters anyway is the big picture, unless the mistake is consistent across your work, and egregious. I agree if you're not meeting your goals, instruction is worth consideration. But also, not everybody lives in LA or where the hell ever, or can even afford lessons. You could say "online classes," and I could just easily make the argument that online classes are not "real" in-person teaching either.
At the end of the day you need to do the work. Nobody else can make you do that. Artists who succeed are those who do the work, not those who have teachers; teachers simply increase your odds of success, but lots of things do that. Not having a job and being able to draw 10 hours a day also increases your odds, does that mean everyone should quit their job? Plenty of lazy, clueless motherfuckers blow away thousands on a CalArts education and can barely draw by the end of it. That's all I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.4105469]

>>4104873
But my art isn't good. I should maybe worry about this if my art were great, it's not.
>>4105429
>>4104907
>I don't have experience with online courses but I believed that ones you mentioned were good quality. Maybe you chosen courses by artists that are not good at teaching.
My fundamental instruction was
>Vilppu's video courses
>Bridgman, Hampton
>Scott Robertson
>Practiced drawing models from croquiscafe / posemaniacs, I also carry a sketchbook and draw from life whenever I can. I periodically subscribe to courses (so far Schoolism, NMA, I didn't like the rest) mostly to refresh concepts I've already learned.
I was never one of those guys who hoard instructional material and tutorials, I went from the book to practical application every time. I draw a lot from imagination.

[Anonymous No.4105594]

>>4105457
I don't disagree with you, there's distinction because self taught persons knowledge gonna be more scattered but ultimately it boils down to effort, people efficient at learning can overcome these gaps in knowledge intuitively I guess.
I think online both written and spoken feedback is real and useful but if you actually talk to your teacher it's gonna clear lots of confusion and save you time.