This method makes way more sense than "gesture drawing"

[Anonymous No.4029942]

I am brainlet in art so sue me.

But all that bullshit that vilppu and proko talk about "feeling the flow like a river" just doesn't click.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74HR59yFZ7Y

and I need a model to make it work, and I want to learn to draw from imagination for comics.

What loomis and John Bucema talk about off using stick figures makes FAR more sense to me. It gives you a lot more control on your poses.

Is it just me?

-----
Inb4 but muh stick figures are gestures. Not the way this pros explain. I mean I mean they are similar but the way they are done IS VASTLY different. GESTURE proko/vilppu style is CAPTURING the model. Stick figure Bucema/loomis stile is about CREATING a pose.

[Anonymous No.4029949]

The stick figure is really just another form of gesture drawing, but if it makes more sense to you than other methods stick with it. As long as you get good results it doesn't matter what method you use to make your sketch.

[Anonymous No.4029955]

>>4029942
>Stick figure Bucema/loomis stile is about CREATING a pose
Ok, that's your opinion but where's the gesture then?

[Anonymous No.4029957]

>>4029955
I don't know where is the gesture. i just know I don't need a model infront of me to make it work

>>4029949
Really? That explains a lot. Still I've seen some authors say the stick figure isn't a gesture. I think Proko is one.

[Anonymous No.4029961]

>>4029942
This is construction of the figure simplified so much that a beginner can understand it - as it starts from a stiff stick figure instead of a more flowing gesture drawing.

Its just you. Gesture drawing is its own thing, can be done just for practice, or can be built ontop of as the start of a figure drawing. The purpose of it is to understand how the body moves and to capture its movement and action in the fewest lines.

Gesture drawing like Vilppu does is a bit more advanced than doing basic construction starting stick figures. You'll need to practice gesture though once you reach a plateau where you can't seem to make your figures look like they're moving and lifelike in general.

[Anonymous No.4029967]

>>4029961
>Its just you

Doubt it. That was a rethorical question btw. Solid post otherwise so kudos.

[Anonymous No.4029973]

>>4029961
How do you construct starting with a gesture?

[Anonymous No.4029974]

>>4029942
>marvel
YUCK!

[Anonymous No.4029975]

>>4029957
>Still I've seen some authors say the stick figure isn't a gesture
because is not, gesture is not about building figures, you can do that in any way you want, gesture is about the dynamism of the figure.
I understand the dilema that you can have when compare different authors, the thing is that you can build figures from the gesture, but the level of exaggeration that you put in it is what determinates the level of "realism" that you can have.
If you want yo copy a pose or real live model, sure with gesture you can and probably by the fast simplistic nature of use gestures you could do it more "fast" or "intuitive", but is just that.
Just to detail more; gesture is about the lines of force, the dynamism that you get for the action of the pose, the life force of movement, in actual physical movement of your hand, is more "organic" and "feels more natural" because their "curve" nature. If you apply gesture modestly, you can get normal naturalism bodies, but if you extreme the gesture to their limits, only by guiding you through the lines of action, you can go to the level of cartoon characters in their exaggerated poses.

>>4029973
you go for the lines of action, then you apply anatomy in the way you want, by personal symbol constructions, or by geometric basic figures, most people tend to use a hibrid between building with gesture, and using symbolic drawing to build everything, because they have drawn the same parts over and over again, and then use geometric figures to determine specific positions of body parts, or perspectives.

[Anonymous No.4029983]

>>4029975
So, if I get this correctly Gesture is to capture life, but it's not necessarily a method to draw from imagination like stick figures are?

[Anonymous No.4029990]

>>4029983
>but it's not necessarily a method to draw from imagination like stick figures are?
it is, is just another way to start the drawing.
thinking the thing like this, normie people tend to say that exist two kind of people; the people with "mathematical-scientific" form of thinking, and people with a "humanistic-artistic" form of thinking. Drawing with stick and boxes is more close to the math spectrum, and use curves and organic shapes is more close to the "humanist" spectrum.
Thats of course is a lie because people don't approach drawing by the way they think, and thinking is not as static as to say that people are "hard as numbers" or "as vague and light-thinking as humanists". But yeah if you like maths and numbers a lot, you can actually draw by just geometric, even a spectrum of mathematics is called "descriptive geometry", and you can rotate or put in perspective any object with that, just by maths formulas.

[Anonymous No.4029995]

>>4029990
oh I get it. that makes more sense.

Sticks figures are less abstract than gestures and easier for some people than "capture the flow and the energy"

Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.4029997]

>>4029983
Incorrect. You can absolutely draw gestures from imagination once you become proficient. Vilppu talks about how the old masters started most sketches for paintings at the most fundamental level by doing this to capture the idea and movement of the composition and would build from there.

Constructing from stick figures is just easier for beginners to understand.

[Anonymous No.4029998]

>>4029997
>Constructing from stick figures is just easier for beginners to understand.

Well given I'm a brainlet in art... I do find stick figures easier than gestures. So yeah I think I will stick with them.

[Anonymous No.4030002]

Y'all seriously romanticize what the word gesture means.

You've got structure and gesture. Structure is the parts, gesture is the way parts connect and flow through each other.

It's that simple.

If a stick figure can inform the gesture (i.e. how each of the forms flow through each other) then that's enough.

The problem with stick figures isn't that they're not gesture-y enough. It's that they aren't dynamic enough. When you draw the gesture using flowing lines it creates a more dynamic figure. If you can draw a stick figure with dynamic curves, then that's going to work just as well as any other gesture drawing method.

Everyone keeps conflating what gesture means with how to draw said gesture.

[Anonymous No.4030008]

>>4030002
Wanted to add: If we look at the OP's picture, we can see how dynamic the forms on the stick figure are. Not only is the stick figure itself already alluding to the famous gesture curves, but once he lays in the forms you can see everything's got its own gesture and FLOWS well into the next form.

The problem with beginners is that they adhere too tightly to the stick figure underneath... that's not the stick figure's fault but it does make it easier to make that mistake.

[Anonymous No.4030021]

>>4030008
Awesome?

So as long as my stick figures “flow” and have curves that aren’t stiff then they are fine?

That’s a relief.

[Anonymous No.4030022]

>>4030002
>>4030008
These. You motherfuckers need to read pic related and not return to this board until you do

[Anonymous No.4030023]

>>4030002
You're oversimplifying it. Gesture drawing is its own mode of drawing figures. Doesn't just mean flow of the forms. You learn how to make the forms flow better in every other type of drawing by doing gesture drawing as a form of practice.

[Anonymous No.4030025]

>>4030008
>>4030008 #
Awesome?

So as long as my stick figures “flow” and have curves that aren’t stiff then they are fine!

That’s a relief.

>>4030022
Opinion discarded. Concept art.org opinions on that shitty book ranged from “too advanced for beginners at best” to “scam”.

Other anons have even said his disciples on his forum can’t draw shit.

[Anonymous No.4030027]

>>4030023
No he isn’t. That’s how Steve Huston defines gesture.

[Anonymous No.4030028]

>>4030025
>Concept art.org opinions
lmao opinion discarded. ngmi fella

[Anonymous No.4030031]

>>4030028
PYW

I am shit. But Concept art had pros backing that up.

[Anonymous No.4030036]

>>4030031
>listening to opinions instead of using your critical thinking facilities and exploring other avenues of thought for yourself
I'm serious, you aren't going to make it if you refuse to actually use your brain like that anon

[Anonymous No.4030038]

>>4029957
>Proko

[Anonymous No.4030039]

>>4030023
> Gesture drawing is its own mode of drawing figures.

To expand on what you said, so that maybe it helps someone... what you're describing as "gesture drawing" is a method of drawing the gesture not the definition of gesture. It's a method of seeing the flow of the gesture and then drawing it. And yes, you can definitely improve a lot by drawing (your) pic related. You're right about that.

That does not mean that the only way to draw the gesture is by using that specific method of drawing the gesture. Unfortunately, that style of drawing the gesture is what many people think gesture is. Including OP:

> I do find stick figures easier than gestures.

Stick figures can, do and should also inform gesture. Technical terms in any field have definitions so that we can discuss them without having to figure out what everyone means. But if used improperly, as they are in this and many other threads, they can misinform people conversation and lead to someone thinking gesture is the same as a gesture drawing.

Just like >>4030022 pointed out, literally every form has gesture, with the whole figure being the biggest form of all.

[Anonymous No.4030040]

>>4030036
>Implying I didn't do that already
>Shilling a shitty book.

Already tried that book. It's even more vague than Proko and that's saying something.

I'm using CA.org opinions as they have more weight than mine.

[Anonymous No.4030041]

>>4030027
Read it again. I was simply saying that gesture drawing is also its own way of drawing figures. Huston also differentiates between "gesture drawing" and studying and drawing figures normally.

>>4030028
Conceptart.org had many professional artists posting there, unlike this board.

Mattesi is a hack, mediocre at best, pic related. No reason to learn from him.

[Anonymous No.4030045]

>>4030039
>Just like >>4030022 pointed out, literally every form has gesture, with the whole figure being the biggest form of all.


He didn't point anything. He just shilled a book with bad reputation. Legit some people have called it a scam

[Anonymous No.4030048]

>>4030045
I'll correct it.

> just like the cover of the book that he posted points out

I never read the book. The picture makes sense.

[Anonymous No.4030050]

>>4030039
>someone thinking gesture is the same as a gesture drawing.

I think I get what you mean. An specific method of gesture is being confused as being Gesture.

But come on you gotta admit this is confusing as hell to learn without someone explaining the difference.

[Anonymous No.4030051]

>>4030022
I would if you'd post a link fucker

[Anonymous No.4030052]

>>4030051
Don't bother. That book is shit. Again some CA pros legit called it a scam. I would prove it but the site seems to be down.

[Anonymous No.4030055]

>>4030052
Prove it when the site comes back up, or use the google cache/web archive version.

[Anonymous No.4030056]

>>4030050
>>4030052
>>4030041
>muh concept artist "pro" opinions
>can't name a single pro who didn't like the book
Yikes. You guys are like 5 year olds who refuse to eat anything other than cheese pizza and chicken nuggets because vegetables are foreign and scary.

Hogarth is a trash artist but I'm sure many, many artists have learned important information about figure drawing from his books. By all means, though. In your world, everyone has the same brain and the same methods of learning. No need to ever try anything new.

[Anonymous No.4030057]

>>4030055
I'm trying but there isn't I already checked. I will until the site comes back up

PYW in the meantime to prove your point

[Anonymous No.4030061]

>>4030056
Fuck off I don't remember the sames, One guy in the blackspot clique said it was too advanced for beginners. But the site is down.

But it's a stalemate as you haven't posted your work using mattesis's methods.

[Anonymous No.4030063]

>>4030039
>>4030002

This explains a lot. Thanks anons

[Anonymous No.4030065]

>>4030056
There's a lot to learn from Hogarth because he was a professional comic artist who was also very knowledgeable and talented about teaching figure drawing. Difference between Hogarth and Mattesi is the latter is actually trash if he can't realize how bad this looks. You only need to look at his artwork to realize his books are a scam.

[Anonymous No.4030068]

>>4030065
dam. Please don't tell me that's an actual official picture of his.

[Anonymous No.4030070]

You can go on his instagram right now and see plenty of quality gestures from both him and his students. https://www.instagram.com/michaelmattesi/?hl=en

I have seriously never seen a community so hell bent on just shutting their fucking brains off. It's sad. It's a sign of a lack of intelligence.

[Anonymous No.4030074]

>>4030070
>https://www.instagram.com/michaelmattesi/?hl=en

You, mean like this crap? Really anon? That's your gesture drawing god?

[Anonymous No.4030076]

>>4030074
>cherry picking the two worst drawings out of HUNDREDS on the page
ahahaha. im glad people like you will never go anywhere in life. keep on slurping down the stupid juice, bucko. if you can't find something valuable from any drawings on that page or anything he's written you are mentally deficient. sorry

[Anonymous No.4030080]

>>4030076
>Cherry picking
>Literally the second drawing you see at the top

Just take the L. Or PYW using his methods and prove us wrong.

[Anonymous No.4030086]

>>4030070
Turn your fucking brain on, his "quality" works are like mediocre at best while also occasionally posting artwork thats just plain terrible . There's no reason you would want to waste your time learning from him learn from him when you have the chance to learn from actual living experts like Vilppu, Huston, Watts, Gnass, etc. through video courses. As for books there's plenty that are better as well.

[Anonymous No.4030088]

>>4030080
At this juncture you're just trolling. My point is that you can learn something from just about anyone. You're a rare exception, because you have nothing of value to provide to anyone. You're a ngmi shitting on something you don't understand. I simply provided a resource that might work for some people, might not. You're telling people not to even bother, because, I couldn't even tell you why. Argument from authority, I guess? In that case...
>Taught at Pixar, Disney, DreamWorks, Nickelodeon, EA, Activision and others.
That's all you need to know, champ.

[Anonymous No.4030093]

>>4030068
It is, but it's a blind drawing, like pic related.

Draw whatever conclusions you wish to draw from that. I don't know enough about either him or his work.

[Anonymous No.4030094]

>>4030070
>>4030070
Turn your fucking brain on, his "quality" works are like mediocre at best while also occasionally posting artwork thats just plain terrible . There's no reason you would want to waste your time learning from him when you can easily learn figure drawing from other instructors who are much better at the craft like Huston, Vilppu, Watts, Gnass, etc. through video courses. Huston himself is a living master figure painter.

[Anonymous No.4030095]

>>4030088
>My point is that you can learn something from just about anyone

Bullshit. Some resoures are shit like your advice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAtmiqbR6_M
So you shilled a book wthout even checking if it was good. Got it.

Opinion discarded

Still waiting on you to PYW using mattesis' methods.

[Anonymous No.4030097]

>>4030095
You're right, anon. Pixar, Disney, and all the other major animation studios who've hired him to teach are all wrong and bad. Thank you for enlightening me. Holy Christ you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.4030098]

How do you get the proportions with the oval or robo bean method?

I cant get it so i use cubes which also shows the side planes

[Anonymous No.4030100]

>>4030097
Yes using a Fallacy of authority makes you a genius. Brainlet.

Now post your work using his methods.

[Anonymous No.4030101]

>>4030100
This is coming from the moron who literally said the book is bad because MUH CONCEPT ARTIST PROS
Do you realize how insanely stupid you sound? You're literally arguing against yourself at this point. Jesus Christ lmao. I'm really glad I don't have to worry about people like you shitting up the pipeline

[Anonymous No.4030103]

>>4030098
Corners will ALWAYS better display the 3D nature of forms on paper than cylinders and balls.

What you can do is start from an egg / ball shape and then draw then corners on top of it. While it's a longer process it tends to be easier because you are SEEING a ball-like shape but when you draw corners, the planes are more obvious.

Steve Huston mentions this often but take a look at this part of the video (1:04:00, in case the timestamp doesn't work).

https://youtu.be/2T7cDY7YDsg?t=3840

[Anonymous No.4030104]

>>4030101
Jesus christ you are actually retarded. I thought you were just trolling.

CA pros explained WHY. You are only saying that he worked on fancy places.Which is bullshit argument. Shits site like Pencil kings also uses Marvel, and blizzard as references.

Now PYW and then kill yourself. You are a waste of oxygen.

[Anonymous No.4030105]

>>4030100
>Fallacy of authority
>>4030052
>Again some CA pros legit called it a scam.
>>4030045
>Legit some people have called it a scam
>>4030040
>I'm using CA.org opinions as they have more weight than mine.
>>4030031
>But Concept art had pros backing that up.

You. Are. Smooth. Brained.

[Anonymous No.4030107]

>>4030104
>backpedaling this hard
yes, because pixar is going to release a press statement about why they hired who they hired. hahahaha. holy fuck.

[Anonymous No.4030108]

>>4030105
Ca pros explained WHY it was crap=/= falAlcy of authority.

>Still doesn't post work

So glad this crab is not gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.4030111]

>>4030107
>Seething this hard

Pencil kings also uses fancy studios like bilzzard and marvel as reference. Guess that maks them better than NMA by your logic.


Calling you a retard would be an insult to retards.

>still doesn't post work

[Anonymous No.4030114]

>>4030097

This are the references pencil king use YET is still a shitty site. I wonder why.

[Anonymous No.4030117]

>>4030114
>>4030108
>worked at is the same as teaching at
LMAO. I've already made it, fella. I'm not posting my commercial work, but here. Have some studies and other assorted old shit. Night night, ngmi :)

[Anonymous No.4030118]

>>4030117

> shiit
Indeed.

I still don't see your work using Mattesi's methods given the topic is figure drawing....

>Still waiting on you to post your work using Mattesis' methods

[Anonymous No.4030120]

>>4030055
I read it. Didn’t help the slightest bit and didn’t explain shit about the actual process of gesture

[Anonymous No.4030123]

>>4030117
>I've already made it.

[Anonymous No.4030127]

>>4030120
Seconded
>>4030117
This guys is so butthurt because he was called out on recommending a book he never even used.

Even if you like his work, you gotta admit that's a shitty thing to do. A

[Anonymous No.4030136]

>>4030118
>>4030123
>>4030127
>>4030120
>Two people arguing
>All of a sudden four posts
This is seriously just pathetic. And my line of work is realist/semi-realist portraits and figures. What I learned from Mattesi's book simply informs my drawing and figures, just like all the other resources on figure drawing I've read over the years. The key is absorbing as much information from as many sources as possible and retaining what works. Stay ignorant, though, fellas.

[Anonymous No.4030139]

>>4030056
i remember people on CA shitting on hogarth a lot too

[Anonymous No.4030140]

>>4030136
>Still doesn't post work applying Mattesi's method to prove it works.

Kek

KYS

[Anonymous No.4030142]

>>4029942
You are in fact a brainlet.
What do you next after you establish gesture lines? YOU DRAW A FUCKING STICK FIGURE TO DEVELOP THE FORM!

/ic/ is just a bunch of sub 70 iq losers who are completely unable to think for themselves it seems.

[Anonymous No.4030144]

>>4030140
I mean I asked for figure using mattesi and all this dude posts are portraits. Guy is just deflecting.

What a waste of oxygen

[Anonymous No.4030147]

>>4029942
Neither of those make sense for me, I go straight to sketching the finished Iron Man, and just work from there.

[Anonymous No.4030148]

>>4030142
>Stick figure over gesture drawing

And I thought the mattesi shill was retarded.

[Anonymous No.4030151]

>>4030140
>>4030144
Are you STILL samefagging, dude? Man, your time is running out. You're likely in your 20's, and you likely have nothing to show for it, yet you think spending time here arguing about whether or not a single resource is a good time investment. I hope you get out of here soon and actually start drawing, anon. It'd be good for you.

[Anonymous No.4030154]

>>4030151
>I intentionally link my comments and write to indicate I'm the same person
>Accuses me of samefagging.

yeap total retard

[Anonymous No.4030156]

>>4030154
>quoting your own posts
>"intentionally linking comments"
ahahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.4030157]

>>4030156

Didn't you say say you were dreaming that you would make it?

Typical crab.

I will take my W.

[Anonymous No.4030160]

>>4030157
pyw lmao

[Anonymous No.4030161]

>>4030160
KYS LMAO

[Anonymous No.4030162]

God fucking hell I hate these fucking blobs, lines, gestures, guides, crosses and shit, they don't make any sense. I've been trying to learn them for 10 years and even took a gesture drawing class but fuck my god I can't.

[Anonymous No.4030165]

>>4030161
That's what I thought. God damn, imagine being in your 20s (or God forbid, later) and not having even gotten the basics down LOL.

[Anonymous No.4030166]

>>4030165
>That's what I thought. God damn, imagine being in your 20s (or God forbid, later) and not having even gotten the basics down LOL.

Lol You are still Projecting hard.


Imagine still not posting figure drawing work to deflect criticism kek.

I mean those shitty portraits have nothing to do with mattesi

[Anonymous No.4030168]

>>4030165
Says the bomer that still hasn't posted Figure drawing using mattesi

[Anonymous No.4030169]

>>4030166
>he can't draw a face OR a figure OR a gesture at all, no matter what technique he uses or how hard he tries
Hahahaha sometimes I wonder what having a lesser intelligence is like. Imagine not being able to quickly pick up new concepts and ideas and instantly apply them. Phew. Especially when people literally write the books in the simplest possible manner for retards like you. Ahahaha

[Anonymous No.4030171]

>>4030169
So you are fullshit. Got it.

Please kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.4030172]

>>4030162
My man, you're not calculating proportions correctly. First try to learn how to figure out where to put a line in comparison with something else. If you want to start with the head fine, draw a basic head like you did. But then look at your figure and find out where to put the next line in relation to something you already have, in this case, the head. If your figure's shoulders are one head away then figure out the size of your head and move one head away. Rinse and repeat.

On the other hand, if you want to do gesture drawing, your line work is too crisp. You're not making it rough enough so you're getting stuck in your own cleanliness. Look at any gesture drawing, there'll be a ton of lines representing the same thing.

[Anonymous No.4030174]

>>4030169

Still projecting hard. kel
>So you are full of shit. Got it.
>Please kill yourself

[Anonymous No.4030175]

>>4030171
>so bad he can't post a SINGLE piece to show even a speck of potential
ahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.4030176]

The long axis lines and construction shapes are gesture, you're literally feeling the flow just with this method and not theirs. I personally think drawing poses from imagination can make every character you do appear bland, using references for just the pose would be a good idea. There are a lot of dynamic poses in life that I'm sure very very few people can see them in their head.

[Anonymous No.4030177]

>>4030169
>Hahahaha sometimes I wonder
>Imagine not being able to quickly pick up new concepts and ideas

KEK he contradicts himself. No wonder why he is boomer leeching of his parents.

NGMI

P.D kILL yourself.

I will take My W

[Anonymous No.4030178]

>>4030175

Still trying to deflect attention from his lack of mattesi gestures.

LOL

[Anonymous No.4030179]

>>4030177
>so angry his reading comprehension has gone out the window and can't even type properly because of the adrenaline pulsing through his fingers
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.4030180]

>>4030179
So butthurt he has to project his failrures on me.

LOL. Keep seething.

[Anonymous No.4030181]

>>4029983
Gesture is one of the most important parts about figure drawing

[Anonymous No.4030182]

>>4030172
>My man, you're not calculating proportions correctly.
I have no idea how to do that with just lines and blobs. I can draw a human fine if I can sketch it out nicely with details. Less detail the less I understand what the fuck is going on.
And this shit is supposed to help with making poses and stances, but it gets stiffer the more minimalistic the figure is. I only can make one stance, 3/4 standing with arms streched, but drawing normally he can be flailing like a mad man.

[Anonymous No.4030183]

>>4030180
I posted my work. I get paid for the work I make because I'm good at what I do. You, on the other hand, literally have not a SINGLE PIECE worth showing. Not even on an anonymous internet message board. That's how embarrassed you are. Talk about projection ahahahahaha god damn I love being me.

[Anonymous No.4030184]

>>4030183
I asked matessi gestures. You didn't deliver.

What part you don't understand?

[Anonymous No.4030186]

>>4030183
>god damn I love being me.

Jesus the narcissim is high on this Neet Boomer. No wonder he can't see his hipocrisy

[Anonymous No.4030188]

>>4030184
I don't need to draw like Mattesi to have found his information valuable and applicable to my work. That's what you don't understand, and will never understand about learning. You don't know how to learn. You're dumb, and that's why none of this makes sense to you. I'm sorry, man. I really am. When cognitive implants come out I really do hope you're the first in line.

[Anonymous No.4030192]

>>4030188
Yes I will be the first on line to get you some.
>>I get paid for the work I make because I'm good at what I do.

Press X to doubt

Again I'm asking for mattesi and your shitty portraits have nothing to do with that.

[Anonymous No.4030194]

>>4030183
Bro mattessi’s no good. Your work is meh and even as terrible an artist as i am i have also gotten paid work so it really doesn’t mean much.

[Anonymous No.4030195]

>>4030192
>ignores the four figure drawings that were part of that screenshot
ahahahaha the stupidity strikes again. selectively ignoring reality doesn't make your argument any stronger lmaoooooo

[Anonymous No.4030196]

>>4030194
This.

[Anonymous No.4030197]

>>4030194
Good for you, pal. When you get an actual industry job, let me know. Until then, you can stick to your family commissioned doodles. P.S. that work is all over a year old. Unlike the crabs on this shit infested site, I have a career and reputation to maintain. Coming here to unload on little ngmi faggots like you takes a lot of stress away from my job. Especially during crunch time. Enjoy the boards, friends!

[Anonymous No.4030198]

>>4030195
>>ignores the four figure drawings that were part of that screenshot

Oh those? Faces are meh. But the bodies are stiff as fuck.

Opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.4030200]

>>4030197


Sure you are. Tell me more about your daddy that works at nintendo

[Anonymous No.4030201]

>>4030200
>using the same meme over and over and over and over and over
You remind me of the chimps on worldstar videos who repeatedly yell the same thing ad nauseum until someone either gets knocked out or arrested lmao. I'm so glad my IQ is above room temp

[Anonymous No.4030202]

>>4030197
Oh look he deleted his shit out of shame.Kek

Good night "industry pro"

[Anonymous No.4030205]

>>4030202
>>4030197
>Unlike the crabs on this shit infested site, I have a career and reputation to maintain
I know you don't understand this, and never will, but try your best to rub your two little brain cells together until some autistic synapse forms. Good, ngmi :)

[Anonymous No.4030207]

>>4030197
No, i have worked “in the industry“. Mostly because i had connections and luck.
A work being over a year old is meaningless to me desu. This is my work and it’s been nearly 5 years. It’s still meaningless to the convo you were having, just like the work you posted.
Also, stop seething lel it is a bit embarassing

[Anonymous No.4030208]

>>4030205
whatever you say "industry pro". If that delusion makes you happy be my guest.

[Anonymous No.4030209]

>>4030197
>"industry pro"
>Trolling /ic at 3 am in a workday

LOL

and all because he was called out on shilling mattessi

[Anonymous No.4030212]

>>4030207
Holy fuck. That is one embarrassing attempt at a cast drawing. I really hope you didn't pay an atelier to teach you that.
>posted my work to laugh at ngmis like you
>"seething"
Oh my, you guys are simply too much.
>>4030209
>Imagine not living in Cali and working in the industry
>Imagine having a normie 9-5 cubicle job and not showing up at 11 or 12 every day
Hahahahaha god damn. Good shit fellas.

[Anonymous No.4030213]

>>4030212
>"Laughing"
>Deleted work out of shame

KEK

Of course buddy. Tell me more about how you are also a navy seal

[Anonymous No.4030214]

>>4030213
Nah, I just don't need some faggot like you trying to find out my identity, since some of those studies are floating around out there. It was satisfying enough to watch you all collectively shit your pants when someone actually posted their work and it was good. I love doing that every once in a while. Okay, but seriously. I need to get some sleep. Thanks for the discussion, friends. And also, NGMI. Forever.

[Anonymous No.4030215]

>>4030214
>And also, NGMI. Forever.

Geez don't be so hard on yourself. I mean it's true you won't make it. But still

[Anonymous No.4030218]

>>4030212
But your work wasn’t really good nor proved your point bruv.
>that’s an embarassing cast drawing
Oh but i thought it being old means that it can’t be criticized! Or does that only work for you?
Interesting

[Anonymous No.4030219]

>>4030214

Yeah the identity of a neet boomer is a secret we all are curious about (sarcasm)

>It was satisfying enough to watch you all collectively shit your pants when someone actually posted their work and it was good.

But It was shit.

[Anonymous No.4030222]

>>4030218
Seconded. Your study had more soul than the crap he posted.

[Anonymous No.4030226]

This thread is an actual representation of why /ic/ is cancer.

[Anonymous No.4030228]

>>4030226
It should be printed, framed, and hung in a museum as the artistic quality of the thread is greater than the sum of the works ever posted here in totality

[Anonymous No.4030229]

>>4030222
the funny thing is that he can't understand the point i'm making.
I'm not saying i'm a better artist than him, i'm saying certain types of drawings ( and as mediocre and his and my work is) is literally meaningless when you're defending an approach to gesture.
And his only defense is that "it's over a year old".
yikes

[Anonymous No.4030231]

>>4030229
Yeah I completely agree. Notice how he ignored your point and started to go full narcissist.

Thank you for bringing sanity to this thread anon. My best wishes to you


>>4030228
Dude everything was fine until that Boomer had a meltdown over being called out on his shitty rec and started to have a narcissit fit

[Anonymous No.4030250]

Hey guys, sorry to break up the autist fight, but the only way to really understand gesture is to just draw. If videos or books don't click for you, then you'll have to make your own path until you start seeing the patterns of the human body for yourself. It'll come. And we should all aspire to be better than what was displayed in this thread. I love you, /ic/. We should try to make this place better for everyone instead of putting each other down. I sincerely hope you all have a great night.

[Anonymous No.4030251]

>>4030182
>>4030162
>ten years
Stop drawing, anon, you will never make it

[Anonymous No.4030254]

>>4030250
Tell that to the NEET boomer that went full narcisist over his shitty rec.

[Anonymous No.4030367]

>>4030251
no need to be so mean

[Anonymous No.4030460]

>>4029942
Jim Lee youtube/twitch streams are really good and follow the marvel how to draw stan lee/buscema method. He usually does the ball/almond torso and hips and then some basic head and limbs after hes happy with the proportions and perspective and layers in better lines and renders it after.

I found gesture drawing stupid and useless u til i learned more anatomy. Omce i understood some anatomy landmarks and basic shapes of muscles, it clicked for me and was able to start doing rough gestures of poses for comics that looked like what i wanted. I dont know why its taught so early and stressed so much when most can draw and lack all knowledge of anatomy. Hamptons figure drawing helped a lot and is like a slightly more indepth draw the marvel way in how he constructs his figures. Helped me immensely.

[Anonymous No.4030471]

>>4030460
What exactly am I looking at here

[Anonymous No.4030568]

So Ive been runnign aroudn trying different gesture methods (Proko, Huston, Vilppu etc) and I have to say that it feels more natural to me is a combo of Huston and Vilpuu. Problem is that I don't do that often and try to adhere to a single style cause I fear i may risk doing it the easy way as opposed to the right way...

[Anonymous No.4030616]

>>4030568
There is no "right" way to go about it and most good artists dont strictly adhere to one method. Just different techniques and ways of thinking that fit better for different situations.

You should however pick and choose who you learn from wisely, and not just learn from one person.

[Anonymous No.4030631]

>>4030568
If you follow an instructor for a while it might be a good idea to adapt completely to his style to avoid confusion, ie Huston. If you finish with him you can change to Vilppu and his method. If you're done with both you can mix and match.

[Anonymous No.4030661]

>>4030568
Vilppu really helped me with adding construction with the gesture, mainly his way of adding the ribcage and connecting it to the arms

[Anonymous No.4030728]

>>4029942
Notice how the end result is very stiff though. The true chad method is to start with the stick figure then draw a gesture using the stick figure as a guide then you construct ignoring the stick figure and only using the gesture.

[Anonymous No.4031264]

>>4030056 >>4030070 >>4030074 >>4030076 >>4030080 >>4030088 >>4030095 >>4030097 >>4030100 >>4030101 >>4030104 >>4030105 >>4030107 >>4030108 >>4030111 >>4030117 >>4030118 >>4030127
>>4030136 >>4030140 >>4030144
>>4030151 >>4030154 >>4030156
>>4030157 >>4030160 >>4030165
>>4030161 >>4030166 >>4030168
>>4030169 >>4030171 >>4030175
>>4030177 >>4030178 >>4030179
>>4030180 >>4030183 >>4030184 >>4030186 >>4030188 >>4030192
>>4030195 >>4030197 >>4030198
>>4030200 >>4030201 >>4030202
>>4030205 >>4030207 >>4030208
>>4030209 >>4030212 >>4030213 >>4030214 >>4030215 >>4030218 >>4030219 >>4030222 >>4030229
Why will this post get deleted but these won't? It's one thing for a bait thread, but this is some serious derailment for a serious thread.

[Anonymous No.4031271]

>>4029942
if you cant feel the flow of the body you are ngmi

[Anonymous No.4031316]

>>4030460
that tummy is so hot

[Anonymous No.4031360]

Boxes is better in every way.

[Anonymous No.4031663]

I can never get the fucking proportions right doing gesture studies cause of my dumb habits fuuuuck

[Anonymous No.4031676]

>>4031663
Proportions aren't the objective of gesture drawing though, expression is.

[Anonymous No.4031690]

>>4031663
Are you doing 2mn ones ? Thise really helped me with proportions

[Anonymous No.4031700]

>>4031676
>>4031690
30 seconds cause I'm trying to learn to get the gesture down fast before doing the figure, and yeah I admittedly confuse the two can go all ape on myself for not getting proportions right at first with the gesture, my expectations are admittedly really high and I beat myself up a lot. I used to be way better anatomically but long story short I got complacent and focused on busts for too long so everything went to shit and now I'm here.

The Buscema method (OP's pic) is really catching my interest right now though, I gotta lose the shame in needing to take time with the figure like he does

[Anonymous No.4031710]

>>4031700
I recommend doing both

[Anonymous No.4031860]

>>4030471
https://www.instagram.com/destinycrossplay/

[Anonymous No.4031916]

>>4030022
That book is extremely overrated. It's really hard to apply anything from it to your work without looking like his style. I don't find his style very appealing at all. It's very abstract for people to learn from and you're actively hurting people by recommending it to people.

His drawings really aren't that good, it does seem like he has more to sell than to teach. It's indiscernible from someone who's drawn figure studies for a year or two.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz8TyNlA3a0/

[Anonymous No.4031920]

>>4031916
>>4030022
I think the principles Force teaches are very worth knowing, but the way he teaches them and his examples muddle the message a lot. I didn't understand Force for a really long time and really struggled with gestures, but then I decided to do some studies of Trigger anime to try and understand their gestures and suddenly everything in Force just clicked for me and I suddenly started getting a ton of gesture gains. I think Force is very much worth reading, but it should be supplemented with studies from other artists who are good at gesture, like animators.

[Anonymous No.4031921]

>>4031920
Forgot pic related, I did a study of this while going through Force and it made so much of the book make sense, more so than his illustrations

[Anonymous No.4031959]

Okay, let's see if I can help.
BASICALLY- Gesture is the essence of something. Its movement, weight, mass, balance, space, etc. When you're gesture drawing, you're basically capturing the essence of the thing you're drawing, boiling it down to it's bare essentials, putting down the most important things to communicate the main ideas of what it is, what it's doing, and how it is affected by or is affecting the world around it. Figures aren't the only things that have gesture, even something so simple as a cylinder or a box can have a gesture, kind of a life of its own.

[Anonymous No.4031983]

>>4031959
Unfortunately, there is no set method of gesture drawing, although there are books and teachers that can give you helpful pointers to set you in the right direction and help you get into the right mindset for it. But basically, when you practice gesture drawing, what you are trying to accomplish is to put the main ideas of the figure or object in as few lines of possible. The various gesture drawing tools on the internet help immensely, because when you're faced with a short time limit to draw a subject, you are forced to forego being careful and second-guessing yourself, you have to put down a simplified representation of what you see, kind of a "cliff notes" version of the subject. You are forced to rely on your perception, hand-eye-coordination, and instincts without consciously thinking, consequently making them stronger.

Also, this might blow your mind, but "gesture" and "construction" aren't mutually opposing concepts. Construction is your skill in drawing 3D forms in space, your sense of perspective and whatnot. When you have a strong sense of construction it will inform your gesture drawing, and vice versa, your sense of gesture will cause your construction to be more expressive. When you're well versed in both there will be a ton of overlap between the two. Not that I am, just in case you think I'm tooting my own horn, but study a good artists sketches (or even better, watch their sketching process) and you'll see that their rough sketches will have a quality of constructive form and a sense of space. This is very noticeable when what they're working on is very dynamic, or includes a lot of proceeding and receding to and from the viewer (foreshortening), and this is especially true with an artist well versed in drawing from imagination, such as animators, cartoonists, and comic/manga artists. The more dynamic and exaggerated the style, the more it shows.

[Anonymous No.4031998]

>>4031983
To wrap up this rambling mess, I suggest reading Walt Stanchfield, this book >>4030022 , Vilppu, and Burne Hogarth's dynamic figure drawing books. Practice your gesture drawing with 30 and 60 second timed figure drawings.

Also, some more tips: Practicing your draftsmanship and line confidence always helps. Fluency in drawing 3D forms and intuitive perspective is a great boon. Learn to play with simple solids, play with perspective, make them twist and turn and go to and from the camera. It's a lot of fun and will help you a lot.

[Anonymous No.4032023]

>>4031998
Good posts. Sure, you can learn a bit of what gesture by reading Matessi's book if you don't already know anything about it. However I'd recommend just studying from actual masters like Huston, Vilppu and Knass via their NMA courses over him though. You'll learn much more and faster from them since Matessi's drawings and text suck.

[Anonymous No.4032042]

>>4032023
I've been following Huston's NMA course and his book for 2 weeks now and my skill went through the roof. Though, Ive seen some Anon said that his teaching was confusing. I'm really glad his method clicked with me.

[Anonymous No.4032059]

Holy shit thanks so much for making this thread op, turns out the stick figure method gels a lot better with me than the curve method, and Lee and Buscema's encouraging and genuine tone in the Marvel Way tape made for a heartwarming pick-me-up after I almost gave up practicing for the day, especially their speech at the end.

This is one of the few exercises I did after watching it, I've been on a huge Spidey kick since Spiderverse hit Netflix so I went a little ham on this one, but this is the first time I've ever done an extreme full body pose with Parker without reference after years of being a fan, so op might be onto something, could be a different strokes thing though

[Anonymous No.4032071]

>>4032042
How's Huston's book/s? I fucking love his NMA courses and the way he breaks everything down.

[Anonymous No.4032074]

>drawing humans
pleb

[Anonymous No.4032079]

>>4030207
That's a weird-looking pussy, use references.

[Anonymous No.4032096]

>>4032071
Everything you see and hear in his courses you can read about it in his book summarized. Whenever I finish a lecture of his (ie, legs) I read the leg chapter to reinforce his methods and teaching.

I don't think it's required to get the book. If you're serious about his method tho I can recommend it greatly. The book is best used after watching his video. I wouldn't recommend using the book without watching the video because sometimes it is explained too shortly.

Here is the link to his book.
https://mega.nz/#!uKoxiYoD!9QrUfPyk1xQLFc_K0hBW-DG7nHUWwKcbRtCfuV_pK8E

[Anonymous No.4032202]

>>4032096
Thanks dude, much appreciated. I'm doing his portrait and figure drawing courses in parallel. I can never recommend him enough.

[Anonymous No.4032207]

>>4032059
for some reason that looks like Penny Arcade art

[Anonymous No.4032554]

>>4032096
Steve's book is also godsend, Makes much more sense than vilppu for me.

[Anonymous No.4032558]

>>4032059
Welcome!

[Anonymous No.4034763]

I like the way karl gnass and steve huston approach the figure because their approach is consistent no matter the time or scale of drawings. I also like the reilly/watts and i think it goes well with steve's. I cant get into vilppus gestures but the way that he builds his figures are great so i tend to skip his gestures and focus more on the way that he mannequinize the figure.

[Anonymous No.4034781]

>>4034763
I feel the same way. I like the process of Karl and Steve the most. I get the cascading waterfall stuff but don't see it when I'm doing figure and find it too distracting/contrived while drawing. Having a process like those two takes away a lot of the pretentiousness of some methods. Vilppu is great as a teacher but his gesture doesn't resonate with me. Understanding that he comes from a study of Renaissance and egg shapes makes his gesture make a lot more sense but as a beginner you don't know that unless you watch his videos.

[Anonymous No.4034949]

>>4031860
this has a dick right?

[Anonymous No.4035003]

>>4034949
learn your artistic anatomy or look at the name lol

[Anonymous No.4035022]

>>4034781
The way Vilppu draws figures and gesture is pretty unique to him and different from how most other artists draw. I'm not a beg by any means and trying to follow Vilppu's approach made me feel like I was relearning how to draw and its very frustrating. Knass and Huston's methods aren't that unusual and thus much more easy to follow and understand if you're trying to draw along with them.