Comics Economy

[Anonymous No.4029178]

I know you don't all make comics, but if you do, how long does it take you to create a page?
My guess would be at least 8 hours.
Is this the actual reason why no one makes money from comics? Not because people aren't buying them, but because the labor involved is so much.

[Anonymous No.4029182]

>>4029178
I've been so fucked lately with this. The most I can get anyone to pay me for a comics is 75 USD per page in black and white lineart, and because they can't afford that people usually try to cram a lot of panels into a page (or I try in order to make it affordable for them).
I can't really say how long it takes me, but for a page that has 5-9 panels it can take me anywhere from 4 to 13 hours.

I haven't done that many comics and maybe its just because I don't have practice? I'm hoping and praying that it will get faster because I WANT experience.

pic related not my art, but similar style wise

[Anonymous No.4029183]

>>4029178
I've heard of some pros taking like an hour to do inks/sketches for a page. My pages take me anywhere from 4-8 hours from thumbnail to finishing tones and lettering/sfx, but I'm just an amateur webcomic artist and I'm nowhere near pro level.

[Anonymous No.4029213]

>>4029183
Do you by chance know of any artsits who report on this?
Like I'd love to see examples of artist's work paired with how long it takes them to make it.

[Anonymous No.4029251]

>>4029182
>because they can't afford that people usually try to cram a lot of panels into a page
lol that's so lame

>>4029213
Murata makes 4-5 pages a day and reported that he made 12 once. That's all you need to know.

[Anonymous No.4029257]

>>4029178
One of the reasons yes. Boulet reported making as much doing storyboards during 3 months than doing comics for a year, and storyboards are fucking sketches. Schuiten, who takes a lot of time researching/working with the writer in addition to his meticulous style, said he was pretty much retiring because comics weren't paying as well for the ridiculous amount of time invested (last album he did took four years, and there's four names on the cover).

It's not the workload, cause it could be self-justified by the freedom and gratification comics give as an author.
It's the vastly underpaid workload, and it's getting worse. Editors can be blamed a whole lot

[Anonymous No.4029319]

>>4029251
Mangas tend to have a lot less panels per page so I think they're a lot easier to make. Its a shame because they're more popular too, so it shows that people LIKE having more pages with less panels.
But fucking western comics had to ruin everything by cramming everything into a page for the sake of having it be in color and so the printing wasn't as expensive.
That's still a lot though.

>>4029257
I am also a storyboard artist and that sounds totally correct...
However, I came into storyboards accidentally because I had the skills from wanting to draw comics.

>Editors can be blamed a lot
How is this so?
I can see this, as the creators in general who I have contracts with, whether it be comics, storyboards, book covers or ANY kind of drawing ask a DICK amount of revisions. I've had to really strict before we even start talking money about my revision policy.

[Anonymous No.4029340]

>>4029257
>Editors can be blamed a whole lot
Self-publishing is just as terrible if not worse. Comics in general are a dead medium.

>>4029319
Nausicaa has a lot of panels per page, I think because Miyazaki is an animator at heart so he has poor panel economy, but I like it. It gives it a cozy feeling. Lots of pages have 10 or even 11 panels.
I stick to maximum 8. My comic is like 4, 6, 8, 5, 6, 5, 5, 6, etc.

[Anonymous No.4029375]

If comics really are a dead medium how can anyone honestly make it as an artist?
How do people actually get a sizeable income from art?
I know you guys will probably say get a lot of follwers and shit, but I feel like all that fame is fleeting at best. Is anyone really going to care about Sakimichans in ten years?

[Anonymous No.4029380]

>>4029375
The industry

[Anonymous No.4029419]

>>4029375
>how can anyone honestly make it as an artist?
This >>4029380
or become a Brand™ which is exactly like being in the industry except you're a freelancer
or become an Internet Personality™ and put art in the backseat
And in all three cases you still have to get really fucking good because the competition is fierce.

[Anonymous No.4029716]

>>4029178
About 6-8 hours but I'm still pretty amateur. Once you account for printing costs and everything, I make less than minimum wage per comic but it's a fun hobby.

I don't think you should go in expecting anything but be happy with what you get.

[Anonymous No.4029720]

>>4029178
>photorealistic comics
Why would anybody do this? You make as well just use the actual photos for your comic.

[Anonymous No.4029727]

>>4029720
>Why would anybody do this?
capeshit readers have awful taste and love it

[Anonymous No.4029735]

>>4029380
>>4029419
>the industry
what kind of vague ass blanket statement is that??
what industry, SPECIFICALLY?

[Anonymous No.4029736]

>>4029727
What I meant was drawing photorealism is by far the most inefficient way to create comics so you may as well use photos. A comic chapter that's completely drawn photorealistically is going to take a pretty long fucking time.

[Anonymous No.4029741]

>>4029727
>>4029720
You shut your whore mouth.
Lee Bermejo is a master.
Just look at that panel

[Anonymous No.4029812]

>>4029741
How long did it take him to do just that one page? A month?

[Anonymous No.4029850]

>>4029319
Yeah, western comics should really learn from Japanese manga, people prefer a story more than how much time was placed in art

[Anonymous No.4029868]

>>4029850
I love a comic with great art, but I agree. I can't get into a lot of mainstream western comics because they often feel clunky, cramped, and overly verbose, despite having great art. It feels like they know they can only get so many pages of art out at once, so they compensate by cramming more content into fewer pages, making it feel a bit cramped pacing-wise. I greatly prefer manga because usually they have a much easier panel flow and are much easier on the eyes. Blacksad is probably one of my favorite western comics because it actually lets the excellent visuals do most of the talking, and takes it time with each of it's stories. The downside to that is new Blacksads take a fucking eternity to come out.

[Anonymous No.4029887]

>>4029868
I think blacksad artists probably gave up after amarillo

[Anonymous No.4029977]

penciling, lettering, inking and coloring
If I worked on weekends I'd be able to produce one page a week but my current comic is being done on small pages so mo maybe in a bigger format I may not be so fast.

[Anonymous No.4029981]

>>4029850
The art in comics is what separates the medium from the superior storytelling you'll usually get in books. People usually read comics for the cool looking characters and art. No one wants to read it if it looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.4030004]

>>4029178
there'll be a huge vaccum because DC and Marvel are going to stop publishing comics, they have so many IPs and will focus on making capeshit

there'll be plenty of money to be made

[Anonymous No.4030012]

>>4029178
>>wants to make a comic
>>doesn't draw as fast as moebius

why live?

[Anonymous No.4030062]

>>4029178
If you want to make good, GOOD money making comics, go the Ethan Van Sciver route.

Get sick of SJW Bullshit invading the comic/entertainment space, quit your job, and make your own comic that gets funded through crowdfunding. He made a fucking killing. And he's still making money daily with his YouTube streams.

Long story short is go the crowdfunding route and find your crowd. Ethan knew his crowd well and sold to them.

[Anonymous No.4030069]

>>4029178
From sketch to a finished colored page I spend about 2 work days.

[Anonymous No.4030210]

I think western Artists have a problem of putting too much production into their comics. Photo realism and excellent coloring eat up too much time.

I think a reason why manga is so much more successful is because if you have a simpler style it's easier to make things more dynamic and it's easier to produce. Almost all western comics I see seem very static and are overcrowded with text blurbs. It's a lot tell not show because of how much effort is put into each individual panel. Sometimes you need to just fucking cut corners. Look at this panel from HxH. Is it full of hyper realism? Does it have accurate anatomy or beutiful coloring? Objectively it does not compare to OP's pic >>4029178 but it get's the fucking job done and shows you everything that you need to know. It's dynamic, it's crafted well, you tell what's happening, and it conveys all the necessary information. You don't need to make everything perfect and photorealistic. It's just wasting time. In fact I think photorealism or hyper realism is the worst way to make a comic. You need to update frequently in order to retain interest. You can't get any meaningful progression done in a good time frame making everything look perfect ,realist, and colored.

Comic artists should focus on readability, plot, dynamic movement, and consistent updates. Sometimes it's okay to cut corners and save really high quality illustrations for key panels in order to put emphasis on a scene. Not every panel needs to be a masterpeice, it just needs to convey the necessary information and not look like trash.

[Anonymous No.4030822]

>>4030210
But what if I want to make a comic that is meant to be really beautiful, and thats a key element of it?
Are there comics that stand out for being beautiful?

[Anonymous No.4030842]

>>4029868
I vastly prefer japanese comics because they generally prioritize easy of reading and flow. So far, nearly all western comic books I've read have been a chore to get through and honestly not enjoyable.

[Anonymous No.4030905]

>>4030822
Definitely. Honestly I love Witch Hat Atelier (pic related) because it's one of the few stories about art being literal magic where the art really does feel magical and entrancing.
Though in most cases, I feel if it's a choice between getting more pages out and polishing every page, it's better to just bite the bullet and get more pages out. You can save putting lots of polish and effort into the pages where it really matters, rather than trying to make every single one perfect.

[Anonymous No.4030911]

>>4030842
Read something else besides murifatt comics

[Anonymous No.4030946]

>>4029716
this. I can churn one page a day. Not fast, but i'm not really motivated to be very fast

[Anonymous No.4030955]

>>4029720
>>4029727
yeah dude photorealism sucks lmao i jack off to hentai

[Anonymous No.4030962]

>>4030955
I love comics and all, but how do they not get style whiplash from that traditinal art and that digital word bubbles.

[Anonymous No.4030978]

>>4029178
>Not because people aren't buying them, but because the labor involved is so much.

It's both. Manga art often takes just as much labor but they split it up with assistants. The real issue is in the US, there is no market for comics because people just don't have good times to read them. In Japan, you often have very long commutes on trains every day for school and work. That gives you a lot of reading time.

[Anonymous No.4030988]

>>4030962
Seriously, I hate the lettering in so many comics. It often feels like it's done without any regards for the art. I've had friends hire me to do lettering for their comics and while I'm hardly good at it, I've done enough to know it's an art to itself.

[Anonymous No.4030991]

>>4030210
>actually manga is superior to western comics BECAUSE the art isn't as good
>making better art is a waste of time

You're a consumer, you have no reason not to demand higher quality artwork in an entirely visual medium.

[Anonymous No.4031032]

>>4030991
>Simpler = Lower quality
Not that anon, but honestly I prefer simpler styles in a lot of comics. And most comics are made by small teams that don't have the same resources as larger productions, so higher detail necessarily means spending more time on production. Most of the comics I read are serialized so if cutting a few corners means I can get to read the next installment sooner, I'll happily make that trade off.
Honestly after trying to make comics myself I think most of the corner cutting pros do is very forgivable, so long as the art still looks appealing and is effective.

[Anonymous No.4031050]

>>4031032
>pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.4031055]

>>4029812
Doubtful. If we take already mentioned Murata he does a full colour page in a day or two while using copics.

[Anonymous No.4031062]

>>4030955
>>4030991
I'll take Tradd Moore in B&W over this realistic style. If I get more pages per unit of time in the switch I won't even think about doing the switch.

[Anonymous No.4031068]

>>4031050
It is just one example, but I can understand if you don't enjoy it, anon. I personally find it very attractive but it's not for everyone.
My point still stands, some people find simple art to be appealing, and detailed, realistic art is not inherently better than simple art. >>4030991 is certainly very well done technically, but I just find pic related to be more enjoyable to look at while reading a comic.

[Anonymous No.4031110]

>>4029887
I heard that they've been working on the new one for a bit now, no word on release tho.

[Anonymous No.4031125]

>>4031032
>>4031062
This attitude is part of what is wrong with comics. Justifying a low bar for quality just so you can consume the next issue faster. No wonder so many comics have garbage interior artwork.

[Anonymous No.4031164]

>>4031125
People read comics for the storytelling. People use the OPM and MP100 examples to death, but they really do show that art is secondary to actually getting the story out in a comic.
If you just want to look at pretty pictures, you look at an illustration.

[Anonymous No.4031211]

>>4031164
The webcomic boom of the 00s is proof enough that art will always come second.

[Anonymous No.4031358]

>>4031125
>comics have been crashing down since no one buys them
>not even the nice looking ones

>"Manga looks like ugly shit"
>is in a boom economy

Hmmmmmmmm

[Anonymous No.4031395]

>>4031164
Sure, the art is secondary but everyone on this board is obsessed with drawing in an anime or manga art style. Use your fucking brain.

[Anonymous No.4031402]

>>4031164

Sure, the art is secondary but everyone on this board is obsessed with drawing in an anime or manga art style, while dumping on western comics just because its not in the style they like. Use your fucking brain, the art style is most of the appeal.

[Anonymous No.4031426]

>>4031395
>>4031402
Manga are usually cheaper. Enjoy paying $10-30 for a 20 page book cause "muh realism".

[Anonymous No.4031430]

>>4031402
I dunno, a lot of the people saying that they don't like some of the western big 2 styled art also cited other western artists as styles they like better, including myself.
I have nothing against western comics, pic related is one of my favorites. I just find Manga a lot more enjoyable than most big western comics because it covers subject matters I find more interesting, and I usually find the pages flow better when reading and have faster update schedules

[Anonymous No.4031706]

>>4030962
>digital word bubbles
Look closer it's hand drawn and hand lettered

>>4031125
>No wonder
It's more about economy of scale, floppies are just bad value

>>4031402
Most manga looks and reads better, is released faster and is cheaper than western comics.. What was your point again?

[Anonymous No.4031728]

>>4030991
Making everything hyper realistic and super detailed is a waste of time. When it's simpler it's far easier to do more with it. This autistic obsession with making everything hyper realistic and perfect is honestly limiting. Western comics are far more stiff and have far less movement.

There are far more reasons why Mangas are generally better than comics. It mostly comes down to panel structure. Mangas are better at conveying information visually than comics because comics suck ass at having a good camera flow, panel to panel action sequences, and dynamic movement. When you trying and make everything super realistic and brilliant, you restrict it and don't push the boundaries like you should.

[Anonymous No.4031731]

>>4031125
What's wrong with comics is the inverse retard. Stop trying to make a fucking photo-realistic portrait when you are trying to tell a story. Phocus on what's important and convey as much condensed information as you can in a single panel

[Anonymous No.4031741]

>>4030991
>>4030955
Colors are hard on a readers eyes when they have a long form comic.

These characters look ugly and stiff as well. These aren't better. More realistic or more detailed =/= better art. This is especially true with a comic who's purpose isn't supposed to fucking look pretty but tell a story visually.

[Anonymous No.4032148]

>>4029178
>if you did, how long would it take?
Depends if the storyboard is already done or if i need to do everything from scratch and then go back and forth with the author.
Also depends on the amount of detail one would like to have.
I sketched a guy a page once because he couldn't afford anything and i wanted to practice comics, it took me more time and effort to get his vision than actually doodling the thing.
If i were to finish that page now, it'd take me around 2-4 hours depending on my mood.

[Anonymous No.4032193]

>>4030210
>bringing up HxH as an example
he's not cutting corners for efficiency, togashi is just plain lazy

[Anonymous No.4032198]

>>4030955
this does suck, it looks frozen in time, not like a representation of movement which is what comics are supposed to be like

ps all these characters look fucking retarded but I guess that's capeshit for you

[Anonymous No.4032218]

comic = pulp fiction
a colourful story telling medium cheaply produced on paper.
art is not only secondary in comics, but it's meaningless as more and more adaptions ignore it in favour of live action adaptations with cinematic universes and even korean webtoons going the tv and movie route.
if you have no passion for story telling, avoid making comics, because your art will be extremely under appreciated.

>>4029178
> how long does it take you to create a page?
are we talking pencils, or inking, or flatting, or rendering, or all? anything pro is usually a collaborative effort.

[Anonymous No.4032235]

>>4029251
japanese should not be counted in this, their entire culture is about working yourself to death

>>4031402
this. series like gotham high would be dead in a ditch without a cute art style.

[Anonymous No.4032237]

>>4030955
this looks literally like a bunch of cosplayers kek
if you draw capeshit with a realistic style you have failed before even beginning

[Anonymous No.4032241]

>>4030210
>I think western Artists have a problem of putting too much production into their comics.
dude manga have dozens of people working on them at a time, how are Western comics guilty of "too much production"? The difference is purely stylistic and the public. Manga is a mass product, people are OK with buying it cheap in black and white. Western comics are a niche product, people buy graphic novels and want them in colors. In case of capefags they want to buy original pages from superstars and they probably don't want to buy pages where Batman is covered in smears. Also capeshit artists all trace and can't draw movement for shit.

[Anonymous No.4032251]

>>4031211
>The webcomic boom of the 00s
Penny Arcade is the only webcomic that really made it big and it was a comic strip, and the people making it were wise enough to branch out as soon as possible. Now the webcomic is non-existent. The most successful story webcomic is Homestuck and it's not even a fraction as famous as something similarly indie in a non-dying market, like Undertale.

[Anonymous No.4032468]

>>4031728
>muh mangos are better because of meaningless generalizations
Lol none of the things you said about manga are exclusive to it, nor would they change if more effort is put into selectively rendering the artwork to make it more visually impressive and appealing. For the record I don't really care if the art is photorealistic or not, just that it is better than just "good" or "okay"

>>4031731
>implying you can't have realistic rendering while telling a good story
ah yes, Vagabond would have a much better story if only Inoue spent less time rendering the faces and expressions of the characters the story is about!

>>4031741
>>4032198
>characters look stiff
Show me your best dynamic movement pose for standing and focusedly watching a conversation. Its telling you're really grasping for a reason to not like something.

>>4032237
>if you draw superheroes realisticly you've failed before even beginning
Alex Ross is one of the most in-demand and well respected artists in western comic books and is essentially a living legend precisely because he brought this level of artistry to the characters.

[Anonymous No.4032485]

>>4030991
>>4030955

There's good art, and there's good COMIC art. Especially in the case of action comics, it must be dynamic, interesting, and easy to read. This shit is entirely too stiff and lifeless. The colors, although nice, are too busy and hard on the reader's eyes if they're going to read for long periods. It lacks appeal for most people, especially young people. Who's going to be excited to watch wrinkled 45 year olds in tights?

The biggest offense though, is the lack of dynamic movement and expression. I don't believe for a goddamn minute that there's a dynamic action scene in these comics. It's too tightly referenced from actual people.

These American comics are failing for many reasons, and the art is definitely one of them. How the hell can an entire entire industry dominated by capeshit (that makes billions in box office ) and shit loads of money in advertising get utterly destroyed in sales by Japanese comics, which get wayyyy less support and advertising in America? The actual source material for these movies should be selling like crazy yet they're as dead as ever. Most people, and the youth especially, like manga. No one under 35 actually goes out to buy stiff fucking capeshit comics.

[Anonymous No.4032490]

>>4030955

Why is the dos Equis guy reading the bible to superman?

[Anonymous No.4032527]

>>4032468
>precisely because he brought this level of artistry to the characters.
I know, and that's precisely why capefags have shit taste. And there's zero artistry in that art.

[Anonymous No.4032559]

>>4029178
Planning the page layout takes a week for me, but doing the actual panel takes about 8~12.

[Anonymous No.4032567]

>>4032485
>How the hell can an entire entire industry dominated by capeshit and shit loads of money in advertising get utterly destroyed in sales by Japanese comics, which get wayyyy less support and advertising in America?

They don't?

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2018.html
http://project-anime.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/State-of-the-U.S.-Manga-Market-2018-1.pdf

These are last year though(couldn't find numbers for manga in 2019). Also, doesn't having an anime count as advertising? Because most of the best sellers apparently have that.

https://comicbook.com/anime/2019/05/30/2019-best-selling-manga-one-piece-promised-neverland/

>>4032468
>Vagabond
Isn't that still in hiatus, though? And Alex Ross being stiff isn't even a uncommon criticism.

[Anonymous No.4032701]

>>4030955
I don't like the colour in this, they are in a green room lit by green lights but the reds of their costumes show full saturation, the way none of the colous seem to interact with each other makes it feel like a bad photobash. Another thing is that characters who are standing around in the back doing nothing interesting have the same level of detail as the main characters speaking to each other, it feels cluttered like every part of the image is trying to grab your attention at the same time.

[Anonymous No.4032714]

>>4030955 (me)
>>4032485
>>4031741
>>4032468
>>4032237

Literally pulled this from a Batman comic released today.
Please don't blame the decline of western comics on bad art. Most of the big two's comics have looked like this since the 90s crash, settling on a kinda realistic, kinda not dynamic style, but nothing too excentric like most manga

I'm sorry if I triggered yall by posting Alex Ross, but I enjoy his art and his storytelling a lot because its honestly such a refreshing take to see photorealism done well. So yeah, bottom line is don't think every ongoing western comic is doing hardcore photorealism because they're not.

[Anonymous No.4032718]

more Alex Ross

[Anonymous No.4032730]

>>4032718
fuck alex ross

[Anonymous No.4032829]

>>4032718
>>4030991
>>4030955
holy shit this is amazing, you can't deny it took a crazy amount of work and skill. I don't care if it took him an stupid amount of time because of the nature of how he did it, it's fucking amazing.

[Anonymous No.4032997]

The problem isn't that Alex Ross is bad, the problem is he's wasting his skill and talent on drawing these shitty characters.

[Anonymous No.4032999]

>>4032714
Sean Gordon Murphy is awesome. Been following him since before he got a deal with DC. Plus he's waking up to the sjws in the industry.

[Anonymous No.4033002]

>>4032714
This art is garbage

[Anonymous No.4033015]

>>4032999
>>4033002
>this art is awesome
>this art is garbage
stay classy 4channlers

[Anonymous No.4033589]

>>4032714
This is a good example of dymamic movement, but one problem is that it's hard to fallow due to the camera shifts. The characters move to positions that don't logically flow from one panel to the next. Makeing it look like the characters are teleportating around.

[Anonymous No.4033591]

>>4032829
>it takes a lot of time to do it so it must be good!

[Anonymous No.4033736]

>>4033591
It looks alright to me, if you don't like the style you could atleast acknowledge the raw technical skill of the artist right?

[Anonymous No.4033790]

>>4032485
> I don't believe for a goddamn minute that there's a dynamic action scene in these comics.
Lol this is a joke. Have you ever seen Alex Ross' art at all besides these two pages? He uses more over the top dynamic perspectives and poses than I've seen in most other comics and manga period. The action scenes in his interiors are often as dynamic and complex as his covers.

[Anonymous No.4033794]

>>4033790
Why the fuck is Cyclops attacking his own team?

[Anonymous No.4034038]

>>4033790
god this is TRASH
holy shit capefags have brain damage

[Anonymous No.4034039]

>>4034038
lmao

everyone remember, this is the guy critiquing your work

[Anonymous No.4034045]

>>4034039
dude it's trash
it's complete trash
it's a bunch of characters with no perspective plastered together, and I don't mean the large characters like whoever the fuck those bucketheads in the backgrounds are, there is zero perspective in the string of superheroes in the middle. some characters in the back are larger than characters in the front, the movement makes no sense, there's no flow to the figures they're just plastered together where there's some space, green woman with chrome boots is flying backwards against the flow, what the fuck is vampire dude doing in the right with those retarded hands?
This is literally like the shitty hollywood posters where it's a bunch of flying heads photoshopped together scaled up or down in order of actor importance. It's actually offensively bad, I thought Alex Ross was a hack but this really brings it to another level.

[Anonymous No.4034133]

>>4034039
good point. stick to posting art on reddit.

[Anonymous No.4034135]

>>4034045
good job you have the eyes of an amateur, writing a paragraph doesnt make you right

>>4034133
xD ebin

[Anonymous No.4034145]

>>4034135
>good job you have the eyes of an amateur
topkek
this is my favorite tangent btw

[Anonymous No.4034147]

>>4034145
literally grasping at straws
so desperate

[Anonymous No.4034152]

>>4034147
spot the 4 tangents here and win a (you)
there's a 5th one that is not technically a tangent but still unpleasant

[Anonymous No.4034154]

>>4034152
you read a beginners art book and started cherry picking bullshit that doesnt matter. good job, the fact that you dont seem to understand that things like that are guidelines and not hard and fast rules betrays your ineptitude. why do you post your work, im sure your product is indicative of your expertise.

[Anonymous No.4034159]

>>4034154
>why do you post your work, im sure your product is indicative of your expertise.
kek I'm not posting my work on 4chan after shitting on #1 capefag artist, but you are in the perfect position to post your own. Tangents are a big deal because overlap is a superior compositional choice and it gives further dimension to things. And all these tangents are really ugly, really unnecessary and easily fixed with a bit of overlap. But Alex Ross doesn't know any of that because he just copy/pastes shit on a canvas without a clue.

[Anonymous No.4034160]

>>4034159
>no u

thats what i thought pussy, you cant draw for shit and you dont know shit so stop posting you tween retard

[Anonymous No.4034165]

>>4034160

[Anonymous No.4034193]

>>4029178
It takes about 8 hours, op. The sketches itself take about 20 minutes, the lineart takes maybe 2 hours with maybe 2 hours if backgrounds. Then the screentones or coloring is about 4 hours. Im still a novice so the last part takes the most time. Actually, the thing that takes longest for me is coming up with solid writing.

This is something I dont see talked about a whole lot, but writing and having a solid meaning for everything takes up a lot of time. If you want a good comic you have to be a good storyteller and know every detail of your theme and plot beforehand. So many times I thought I could just "make" a comic, but its not engaging unless it has literal meaning.

How long does it take others to outline their stories?

[Anonymous No.4034210]

>>4034193
>The sketches itself take about 20 minutes
this is a red flag

[Anonymous No.4034220]

>>4034165
this is where you devolve into insults and memes because im right and you have nothing to back up your point. feels good man, enjoy not making it

[Anonymous No.4034588]

>>4034210
Yeah, I like to try a few different things in the thumbnails to see what works, doing outlining few pages at a time to make sure i have a good rhythm. Then again, if I had a solid story outline, that thumbnailing time would probably go by a lot faster.

[Anonymous No.4034886]

>>4034145
>>4034152
>t. faggot who binged sinix's whole channel and thinks he knows shit
the fact you unironically consider cherrypicking minor shit like this as a legit critism is really telling
keep on crabbin

[Anonymous No.4034889]

>>4034193
For my comics I usually spend at least 6 months batting around ideas until I actually start production just so I can get a hold on how the storyline. I started my comic with a very rough outline of the overarching plot, and only figured out all the details after 1.5 years of working on it. But now I've changed my mind of a lot of stuff and will have t make major edits to the outline

[Anonymous No.4034906]

>>4034145
do you actually know what a tangent is

[Anonymous No.4034909]

>>4034588
If you mean sketches from scratch, it should take a lot longer than 20 minutes. If you already have layouts then it's OK. But maybe you're just talking about rough layouts?

[Anonymous No.4034939]

>>4034886
>>4034906
I explained in much broader strokes why it's garbage, I started picking tangents just to make anon more upset. If you don't understand why there's no rhythm or no perspective in that piece of garbage it's not my fault and I'm not going to hammer some taste in that damaged brain of yours
stay salty and keep reading trash

p.s. watch out for tangents

[Anonymous No.4034952]

>>4034939
Do you actually suffer from autism by any chance?

[Anonymous No.4034985]

>>4034939
smfh you can't be serious anon, pyw

[Anonymous No.4034995]

Miura once said he works from 2PM to 7AM every single day, no holidays, and most people know what his release schedule it is

He's been working on the same comic for 30 years, so don't feel bad if it's taking you a while

[Anonymous No.4035086]

>>4030062
Ok, anon, let me just quit my job at Marvel so I can "find my crowd".

[Anonymous No.4035117]

>>4034939
>If you don't understand why there's no rhythm or no perspective in that piece
oh PLEASE explain to me how that piece has no rhythm nor perspective, I'd love to hear it

[Anonymous No.4035121]

Comic threads are the worst ones at keeping on-topic, it's always some butthurt capeshitter trying to deny Naruto has overtaken the industry.

I always write my scripts and do thumbnails beforehand, so that is hard to account for.

But once that is done, sketching takes between 30 minutes to 2 hours.
Finalizing from 6 to 12 hours.

So 6:30 to 14 hours, or between 1 and 2 days of work, seems pretty accurate.

[Anonymous No.4035143]

How do I learn how to thumbnail efficiently bros?

[Anonymous No.4036422]

>>4033790
>that
>dynamic
It's just statue-looking people plastered everywhere. Look, I actually like a lot of Ross' art but it's just not suitable for an entertaining comic. It lacks strong appeal and fluid, dynamic panels/art. This kind of art works amazingly for covers and posters, but interiors? No.

[Anonymous No.4036999]

>>4035086
It's easy ... liberal fuckheads or conservative fuckheads.

[Anonymous No.4037051]

Tbh it takes me a few hours if i sit down and do a page like this. I like to draw in my free time on my phone...

[Anonymous No.4037053]

>>4035121
Care to post an example?
Suprised that sketching only takes max 2 hrs but finalizing 6-12, do you do really intriciate linework, screentones or coloring or something?

[Anonymous No.4037062]

>>4037051
I think you gotta work on your lettering, it feels like there's not a lot of thought put into it and it feels rather amateur-ish. When doing SFX you generally should try to have some sort of sense of the "feeling" the sound is supposed to have, and reflect it in the way you draw the SFX. Having the sfw in the same simple lettering style as the main text makes it seems as if there was little thought put into it.
I'd also generally recommend against hand-writing your dialogue unless you know you can consistently write legibly and in a style that matches the artwork, and in your case I feel the handwriting is a bit too messy to be easily read.
I feel you should also rethink your word baloons so that less of them over up the characters, generally you want to avoid having characters covered by word balloons, especially if you have empty space where the speech bubbles could otherwise go.

[Anonymous No.4037063]

>>4034995
based Berserko

[Anonymous No.4037068]

>>4037062
Fair criticism. Its true im an amateur, currently not willing to invest the time into good lettering. Im mostly hoping to create "pilot" chapters to practice utilizing my characters in a short form story. I cant do letters on my phone so id have to export it onto my tablet.

[Anonymous No.4037077]

>>4037068
Trust me anon, good lettering makes a world of difference and doesn't take too long to do. It's what makes the difference between an enjoyable comic and a nearly unreadable comic. If you can't use a font I'd recommend at least working on your penmanship. You could also use horizontal lines as guides to make sure your letters are all the same size and don't look crooked, and there's a lot of freedom you can get with hand lettering too.

[Anonymous No.4037168]

>>4029182
You should post your own work when speaking about it, not compare it to another artist man.

[Anonymous No.4037170]

>>4029182
>pic related not my art, but similar style wise

You should post your own work when speaking about it, not compare it to another artist man.

[Anonymous No.4037176]

>>4030062
Damn I looked this dude up and he looks exactly how an anti SJW looks like -- a balding potato faced dullard.

[Anonymous No.4037264]

>>4037068
I immediately drop a comic if the lettering is shit
it always means the comic is shit

[Anonymous No.4037562]

>>4037053
>Care to post an example?
Sadly I won't, but the thing is my sketches are very loose, if there's complex perspective I just use 3D software to plot it.

Most comics I finalize with linework + colors + celshading (flat colors take the longest), but one was painted on top of the sketch, so a no-lineart style, and that one tended to be on the longer side of production. Went with B&W and minimalist BG for this one, though.

Around 9~12 panels perpage, too

[Anonymous No.4037639]

>>4030955
>>4030991
This looks pretty bad. Washed out colors, static figures, man-faces on the "women" and retarded costumes on top of having lettering that looks like absolute shit.
Even the works of someone crazy like Cerebus is infinitely more interesting despite being the work of an extended breakdown.

[Anonymous No.4037641]

>>4032468
>Alex Ross is one of the most in-demand and well respected artists in western comic books and is essentially a living legend precisely because he brought this level of artistry to the characters.
That really says it all about how dire the capeshit industry really is.

[Anonymous No.4037645]

>>4032718
Looks like they're posing. Like literally atelier posing. No sense of movement at all.

[Anonymous No.4037653]

>>4032468
Alex Ross is a legend in comic books for his cover illustrations, not for being a good comic book artist.

To compare Inoue to Alex Ross is utterly ridiculous. Inoue has a masterful understanding of knowing when to show very high level of detail and when to cut things down to raw, simplistic statements. If Vagabond was drawn by Ross, it would definitely be far worse as a result. Especially considering the manga is so heavy on fluid action panels, which is by far the biggest weakness not only of Alex Ross but even of much better western comic book artists.

[Anonymous No.4037655]

Jim lee takes about 6 hours to pencil a full page with backgrounds. He streams pages on twitch and they are on youtube to watch real time. You can see him do covers or ibteriors. He did pages for action comics 1000 that clocked little over 6 hours per page. Thats with talking to audience and explaining shit with gaps between drawing.

If it takes more than 8 hours to pencil a page, you are a shit artist. There isnt a single comic artist that produces art of any noteworthiness where more time would be required or the "art" would suffer.

If you ink your own work, add about 2 hours to your time. This implies you do rough lines and finish with inks. You wouldnt waste time on full pencils if you were inking over it yourself.

Inking a full page can take 4 to 6 hours depending on detail of work and if you are comfortable with artist and can fix or enhance the pencils as needed (more hatching, add or subtract shadows, etc). Jimmy reyes and Walden wong both have inking channels you can view real time inking for examples of pro work.

Coloring is a basterdization of modern comics and the biggest problem with it today. People with 10 mins of photoshop experience tossing gradient fill on everything and no reflected light or knowledge of comics and how to make foreground and backgrounds distinct and so on. Old comics with limited pallets needed people with skill to color properly. Idiots add glow and gradients and smoke effects from tumblr tutorials and call it a day now. With such low standars, an hour a page is all i give these shitters.

[Anonymous No.4037745]

>>4037653
>If Vagabond was drawn by Ross
I can't tell of a single comic that would look better if drawn by this hack

[Anonymous No.4037749]

>>4037655
>Jim lee takes about 6 hours to pencil a full page with backgrounds.
fantastic, now how about something that isn't retarded capeshit?

[Anonymous No.4037999]

>>4034909
My thumbnails are the messiest things on the planet. When I say it takes 20 minutes to sketch a page, this is the kind of stuff I mean.

[Anonymous No.4038020]

>>4037999
You were saying your sketches take you 20 minutes, not your thumbnails. The sketch is where you actually solve the drawing you laid out in the thumbnail. Or are you going directly from thumbnail to final ink without having solved any anatomy, perspective and design problems whatsoever?

[Anonymous No.4038032]

>>4035143
Depends on your problem. I tend to work better when my thumbnails are small so i dont put many details in them. Some people work better with large thumbnails. Either way you should have a template with lots of thumbnails near each other so you can go back and fourth them to make sure your writing is solid. Keep in mind important techniques, like making page turns exciting by leaving a question or new event at the end of each page. Thumbnails should be lose, fluid. Theyre about cohesian and flow so you can make sure your layout is exciting or rational, and put the dialogue boxes in places your readers will read them. Dont put more then 11 panels in one page, anime standard is 5-7 normally, and leave full-page spreads sparce. Remember that larger panels mean more important events, and try to imagine what tones will go where as you create so that you have a good balance. Besides that, its practice. Remember that no one page should make a comic good, its about the whole, so try not to put your all into a single thumbnail but rather work on a few at a time. I wished people would have told me those things earlier but i learned them the hard way.

[Anonymous No.4038040]

>>4038020
I go right to an inking layer. I do art digitally, so if i find that i have a problem with something, then I just half the opacity of the art and go over it again on a new layer. Thats why the lineart takes longer. If I get stuck after that, I bring in 3d elements and try again with an actual sketch. Thumbnails are usually enough, though.

[Anonymous No.4038045]

>>4038032
Oh shit thanks so much dude, this is insanely helpful since I only have limited experience thumbnailing for regular illustrations. You're the best.

[Anonymous No.4038053]

>>4038045
Np dude gl

[Anonymous No.4038059]

>>4038040
Legitimately curious, what do your finished pages look like?

[Anonymous No.4038072]

>>4032485
agreed

[Anonymous No.4038074]

>>4038059
This isnt recent, but something like this

[Anonymous No.4038395]

>>4037745
That Squirrel Girl run that makes you want to vomit.

[Anonymous No.4038407]

>>4038072
this paneling is weird, top left and bottom left should be swapped

[Anonymous No.4038438]

>>4030955
it takes skill to draw like that, but it looks fucking terrible to read. more suited to a poster than an actual comic page.

[Anonymous No.4038775]

Can I get a quick rundown on digital colouring?

[Anonymous No.4039733]

The American comics industry is jammed like all the germs trying to enter Mr Burns' bloodstream.

Without getting into the artistic virtues of one style over another, the balance between schedule and art is precarious as fuck.

[Anonymous No.4039782]

>ITT: angry weebs who know nothing about drawing and painting try to explain why a master illustrator is bad because he doesn't draw manga

[Anonymous No.4039816]

>>4039782
basically this whole board

[Anonymous No.4040093]

>>4038072
this is really good, is this devilman?

[Anonymous No.4040356]

>>4039782
>It's so slow it's hard to read!
>The paneling in this is so clunky
>Manga is just, like, better

[Anonymous No.4040673]

>>4039782
>why a master illustrator is bad because he doesn't draw manga
what master illustrator?

[Anonymous No.4041010]

>>4040673
Ross

[Anonymous No.4042782]

Pyw

[Anonymous No.4042824]

>>4040673
>what master illustrator?
probably the one who has drawn and hand painted literally a 1000+ covers while most other comic cover artists still have to pass their drawings off to inkers and colorists. The man is the James Gurney of western comics.

[Anonymous No.4042826]

>>4040673
>what master illustrator?
probably the one who has drawn and hand painted literally a 1000+ covers while even other great cover artists still have to pass their drawings off to inkers and colorists.

[Anonymous No.4042954]

>>4029319
>Mangas tend to have a lot less panels per page so I think they're a lot easier to make. Its a shame because they're more popular too, so it shows that people LIKE having more pages with less panels
>>4029251
>Murata makes 4-5 pages a day and reported that he made 12 once. That's all you need to know.
This is unironically a good thing that western comic writers should look at and consider adopting.

Its way way way way better for pacing, the density of a normal american comic page makes them difficult to read (in terms of art i mean) compared to typical manga art pacing.

I say writers because the artists typically arent the ones deciding panel count, the writer is.

[Anonymous No.4042963]

I'm thinking of doing comic pages where the panel usage is stuctured between "frames" and "style".

Frames would be normal rectangles, 3-5 a page. Styles would be things like jagged lightning bolt panels to show characters reacting, or circles indicating something is happening, or boxes showing a cut-through.

[Anonymous No.4042968]

>>4029380
>>4029419
>The Industry

What fucking industry? Art isnt a fucking "industry"

Concept art? Storyboarding?

Comics? Cartoons?

Character designs, weapon designs, vehicle designs, mechanical designs, environemtal designs?

Graphic design?

What fucking industry are you retards talking about exactly.

[Anonymous No.4043019]

>>4042826
>the one who has drawn and hand painted literally a 1000+ covers
imagine painting 1000+ covers and still being garbage

[Anonymous No.4043028]

>>4040356
>>4039816
>>4039782
>>4042826
Alex Ross is a painter, he isnt a comic book artist.

Dont be a fucking retard, you retards. Static illustrations and sequential art are two entirely different things and Ross is just not good at sequential art. He's a talented, albeit somewhat repetitious photorealistic painter, but his skills just dont make for good comic book art.

Comic book art needs energy, flow, and needs to be easily readable from a visual standpoint. They're not 20 pages of illustrations, they're printed cartoons. Theres a reason good comic book artists use animation techniques in comic books, because its supposed to be frozen motion, not posed action figures.

Tradd Moore is a good example of a western comic artist who understands how to fill a page with energy and motion. Iban Coello is another.

[Anonymous No.4043041]

>>4043028
This guy fucking understands. I couldn't have said it better.

[Anonymous No.4043060]

>>4037655
but if you really look at jim lees work he is actually a terribly lazy artist.

[Anonymous No.4043063]

>>4043028
>Alex Ross is a painter, he isnt a comic book artist.
I mean, there is a long history of painters in the comic book industry but that's mostly beside your point, which I agree with.

[Anonymous No.4043122]

>>4043028
Your argument just boils down to "realistic painting can't have much energy and flow", which has never been true so your argument holds no water. Explain to me how Alex Ross' artworks lacks the dynamic gesture, perspective and composition to create "energy and flow" just because its painted.

[Anonymous No.4043171]

>>4043122
It's not that Alex Ross' artwork lacks dynamic gesture or perspective. Rather when it comes to composition, he relies heavily on single and two page spreads; in fact, his best and most reposted work consists entirely of them. Why is that? Because he's a painter first, and a comic book artist second. It almost seems like he's annoyed by or at least feels restricted in having to use some form of panel structure. Y'know, the very thing that makes comic books sequential art! For Ross and his comics, it's like he tries his damnedest to hide any semblance of sequence; this isn't helped by the fact that his colors are normally pretty muted to boot. But at that point, why call it a comic book anyway? He may as well make an art book that's chock full of nice illustrations. I assume this is what that anon meant by not having "energy and flow."

[Anonymous No.4043180]

>>4043122
No you dumb fucking faggot, my point isnt that realistic paintings cant have energy and flow, its that Alex Ross has no energy and flow when he's doing sequential comic book art.

A single, static illustration is not the fucking same as sequential art you stupid faggot. One image is not the same as 6 or 7 connected images you're supposed to read.

Adding onto that, the style Ross employs will never have the kind of energy that an artist employing basic cartooning can have. Because thats what makes for the best comics, cartooned imagery. You're sequentially cartooning a story. Its essentially fancy cartoon storyboarding. Compare Tradd Moore or Iban Coello to Alex Ross and Ross has nowhere near the kind of momentum and dynamic action that they have. You can argue which you prefer from the standpoint of a single illustration, but Moore is objectively better at sequential storytelling.

Compare that image of Daredevil to this one by Moore and its not even a contest. Once again i say, comics arent about posing action figures, its about capturing movement frozen in time.

It also has nothing to fucking do with it being painted or not you superficially focused stupid faggot. You could paint a Tradd Moore page and it'd have just as flow because the base core drawing and layout has flow. Its about compositioning, layout, and proper sequencing.

[Anonymous No.4043186]

>>4043122
>>4043180
Another example

[Anonymous No.4043187]

>>4043122
>>4043180
>>4043186
And one more to get my point across.

[Anonymous No.4043202]

>>4043180
Again, I personally think the composition of a scene (panels on a page) is far more important than the artist's actual cartooning ability but yes, it's very similar to the storyboarding process in animation, and thusly may be hard for painters to fully grasp, if at all.

[Anonymous No.4043212]

>>4043202
Compositioning is hugely important but whats in those panels are also just as important for flow.

Obviously you dont need to go full Luther Strode or Baki to get good flow, but i think some amount is required to really bring the whole page together. Vagabond is a good series that has a balance between compositioning, more or less realistic (in relative terms) figures, and an element of fluid cartooning to some extent to bring it all together.

[Anonymous No.4043298]

>>4043186
this one doesn't read too well

They're shooting at him, but he's shown to be closer than their guns, just standing there. Then, he punches the guy with his opposite hand, as if he had a running start.

[Anonymous No.4043434]

>>4043186
what an ugly composition

[Anonymous No.4043477]

Could people post what they consider to be comic pages with good composition?

[Anonymous No.4043488]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4043497]

>>4043477
Hawkdude

[Anonymous No.4043498]

>>4043488
I find the read order in that first panel a bit confusing

[Anonymous No.4043503]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4043504]

>>4043503
more buddha

[Anonymous No.4043513]

>>4043028
>>4043180

I get what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent, but I think your view of what sequential art should be is rather limited.

While I definitely agree that comic book artists should compose pages as a whole to flow from panel to panel, it sounds like you're saying is that all sequential art should be of the Jack Kirby school of dynamic action which I just can't agree with.

Something that mangafags do constantly is insist that a feeling of movement is the most important element of a comic book, and because Western comics often pull focus away from that and into other elements they read slow, and therefore are badly composed. Flawed thinking.

Art is just a tool to tell a story. Art should serve the story. There is no one right way to do it.

Alex Ross would not be a great fit for most comic stories. I don't think you'd want to stick him on a random issue of Daredevil, for example. Because action oriented comics need fast, dynamic competitions the same way action oriented novels need fast, punchy prose, and the sheer spectacle of Ross' art forces the reader to stop and look at it. But he was absolutely the PERFECT artist for Marvels, Kingdom Come, Justice, etc., stories designed to play off of that splendor. And that's really all that matters. Let the art serve the story. There's nothing wrong with slow art, just as there's nothing wrong with wordy writing, as long as it's used correctly.

[Anonymous No.4043545]

>>4043488
I'll never not barf when seeing this trash coloring style

[Anonymous No.4043611]

>>4043545
plenty of comics have a lot worse colouring than that

[Anonymous No.4043613]

>>4043611
>>4043488
It's not bad but it's really boring and uninspired. The colors don't clash, but they don't really work well together either.

[Anonymous No.4043853]

>>4029178
Fug this comic actually looks amazing in black and white. I have it in color and every page is hot trash.

[Anonymous No.4043857]

>>4030991
Comes with a caveat homeboy. Better art probably means you'll be bitching the weekly isn't ready yet.

[Anonymous No.4043862]

>>4043488
This is garbage why would you post and/or voluntarily read this?

[Anonymous No.4043871]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4043912]

>>4043862
The use of layout is original
Erik Larson does some interesting experiments with composition

[Anonymous No.4044125]

>>4043488
If I didn't know that capefags have brain damage I would think this shit was bait.

[Anonymous No.4044151]

>>4043857
not really because i dont obsessively buy and read comics thankfully

[Anonymous No.4044718]

>>4043853
>I have it in color and every page is hot trash.
yup, sound like post 90s american comics to me

[Anonymous No.4045465]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4045565]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4046334]

>>4045465
This is capeshit isn't it? Most capeshit is drawn like this
It's literally what is written in some guy's shitty script, drawn in the most matter-of-fact possible way, no personality, no artistic direction, no mood. This actually makes me depressed, can't even hate it.

[Anonymous No.4046541]

>>4046334
pls post some comic/manga pages that in your opinion have "personality" or "mood", your critique sounds very confusing without some type of example

[Anonymous No.4046575]

>>4046334
If you this this sequence has no mood than I would really like for you to provide some examples. Here is the continuation.

[Anonymous No.4046578]

>>4046575

[Anonymous No.4046582]

>>4046575
>>4046578
Why do the colors look washed out?

[Anonymous No.4046589]

>>4046582
Sadly that's the colourist for the whole run. Not the worst that you could find in capeshit but nowhere near the best.

[Anonymous No.4046614]

>>4032490
lmao thought the same

[Anonymous No.4046616]

>>4030955
Superman looks like he's going to belt me for not doing my homework.

[Anonymous No.4048627]

>>4029178
So...I wanna write a superhero webcomic how do I not fuck it up without needing to write another genre. This thing was something I worked on since I was in middle school. Maybe I'm fucking paranoid and 4chan isn't the internet but as of late...I jsut feel like genre needs a fresh new direction than trying force it into ways to garner more money.


I have a few answer to the issue but im ripping off anime and manga for this:

>no retcons, rewrites, or reboots (unless necessary)

>anyone can die (personally I hate killing off characters but if you're trying to solidify stakes, go right ahead and do that)

>well written characters from different walks of life who aren't jsut some one note character.

>natural organic character growth.

>politics that make sense for the story. Don't try to add modern political stuff (regardless of beliefs) into a work especially when it takes place in a non modern area. Now politics isn't bad inherently but honestly, when someone in a comic goes on a long tirade on why they hate or support trump...I'm leaving your comic.

>interesting power sets and a believable power or magic system

>try other settings like in a rural town or in the future or past. OR EVEN STEAM PUNK!

>and this is my personal opinion, don't have your characters look fucking silly especially in darker stories. Nothing takes me out of a story more than a guy wearing a speedo over his tights and being neon green and red.

[Anonymous No.4048669]

>>4048627
The easiest way to "not fuck it up" is to work on improving your writing. None of the ideas you posted are necessarily bad, most of them I personally think are good, but they're all very broad, vague, or don't have much impact on the actual quality of the story. If you want to make your planned comic good you should just buckle down and start studying and practicing writing in the same way you would art.

[Anonymous No.4048723]

>>4048627
Power set would mean a lot of the story. You can't have non-silly world in Marvel/DC due to powers not having any meaningful limit. Even ignoring retcons, rewrites and so on there are a lot of ways to bring someone back to life.

And if resurrection methods exist not using them also feels artificial and dumb.

>Nothing takes me out of a story more than a guy wearing a speedo over his tights and being neon green and red.
It has its place. Yeah, military or stealth based heroes won't do it but a guy with a physical enhancement capable of destroying city blocks and vaporising people with a punch could very well go for it. Exactly so that he would look silly and non-threatening. Public image means a lot when you are working on the streets.

[Anonymous No.4048740]

>>4032193
yeah but hes fucking GOOD when he needs to be, which bears a lot of weight in the context of hxh

[Anonymous No.4048770]

IF YOU ASK ME i think the best way to illustrate a modern comic is to be balanced. Readers want action *and* story. The artist has to be good at establishing a scene and its characters quickly and economically. Having a million landscape and exteriors is just as bad as having a million excessive action frames or dialogue. Why make an extremely detailed page when you can just make a painting? Why breakdown every aspect of a fight scene when you can just make an animation? Why have a thousand lines of text to describe something when you just write a book? Comics have to strike a balance with all this to entertain the reader

[Anonymous No.4048977]

>>4045465
>>4046575
>>4046578

The composition is great but this would need a good inker to clean up the disgusting line work and a colorist that isn't crap.

[Anonymous No.4049007]

>>4048770
Well, duh. That's what all the books on comic writing say. And it's obvious no one reads them, haha.

[Anonymous No.4049014]

>>4048723
Like that's understandable. I'm personally into a bit more practical. Not practical to the point of tacticool but still more believable. But sometimes it can work of the character likes to show up or wants to appear approachable like wrestlers.

[Anonymous No.4049055]

>>4048977

The inking and coloring are amazing though.

[Anonymous No.4049088]

>>4049055
Those inks are blocky, angular and sketchy. I realize that this was most likely done on purpose (although some artists, like Eirk Larsen for example, really can't draw any other way due to lack of fine motor skills) and for stylistic reasons but I find it absolutely disgusting and aesthetically unpleasing.

Pic related is what I consider maxed out, top shelf, god tier inkmanship. This is the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. But I'm sure you will disagree with that if you sincerely like that chicken scratch from the posts I quoted.

[Anonymous No.4049092]

>>4048770
whats the source on this image?

[Anonymous No.4049095]

>>4049055
As for the colors, come on. Everything is pastel and there is way too much magenta used. They are disgusting and indefensible. We can argue about the inks but if you think those colors are good, you're nuts.

[Anonymous No.4049098]

>>4037170
I suppose we'd have to pay 75 USD first.

[Anonymous No.4049108]

>>4049088
>>4049095

All I'm hearing is

>"THERE'S ONLY ONE RIGHT WAY TO MAKE ART!"

To which I say: Fuck off.

Buscema is God-tier though. You're dead-on about that.

[Anonymous No.4049129]

>>4049108
What a boring, non-effort argument. Your way of thinking is what led to the horrors of modernism and cal-arts. If anything is valid you might as well squirt paint on a canvas from your anus, which of course has been done before and was praised by the likes of you.

[Anonymous No.4049133]

>>4034995
>guys work on the same comic for 30 years
>i can't be bothered to work on the same drawing for 30 minutes
at least i can draw wireframe cubes i guess

[Anonymous No.4049139]

>>4049129
>Your way of thinking is what led to the horrors of modernism and cal-arts

And your way of thinking leads to boring house styles that make every book look the exact same.

[Anonymous No.4049152]

>>4048627
>So...I wanna write a superhero webcomic how do I not fuck it up without needing to write another genre.
>This thing was something I worked on since I was in middle school.
>Maybe I'm fucking paranoid and 4chan isn't the internet but as of late...I jsut feel like genre needs a fresh new direction than trying force it into ways to garner more money.
You're rambling-none of this actually means anything

>anyone can die (personally I hate killing off characters but if you're trying to solidify stakes, go right ahead and do that)
Not inherently a good thing- you lean too heavily on it and you train your audience to *not care* about anyone, because their arcs aren't going to matter. I didn't care that 95% of the cast had died in the prison defense in The Walking Dead because they were dropping left, right and center before that.

>>politics that make sense for the story. Don't try to add modern political stuff (regardess of beliefs) into a work especially when it takes place in a non modern area. Now politics isn't bad inherently
WRONG, but if you want to discuss this with other people what you're thinking of is themes, motifs and subtext

>interesting power sets and a believable power or magic system
?
Superpowers are not believable; they are superpowers

>Nothing takes me out of a story more than a guy wearing a speedo over his tights and being neon green and red.
Speaking of subtext, Superman looks like that because he's a circus strongman

But this is dancing around the main issue
>I wanna write a superhero webcomic how do I not fuck it up
>feel like genre needs a fresh new direction
Read something called Worm
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/table-of-contents/
Completed, online story about supers, following a Z-lister villain who has the ability to control insects and little else. Haven't read but apparently dark. From its discussion and rabid hatedom I'm assuming it's pretty good. If the goal is reinventing the genre it's good to know what's been done

[Anonymous No.4049154]

>>4048627

Stan Lee and (especially) Steve Ditko covered that almost 60 years ago.

[Anonymous No.4049157]

>>4049139
Na na na, stop dignifying him. If someone says to you
>What a boring, non-effort argument.
you tell him you're not here to make friends

[Anonymous No.4049165]

>>4048977
Well Roland Boschi did both pencils and inks for this comic.

[Anonymous No.4049167]

>>4049165

[Anonymous No.4049181]

>>4049167
>>4049165
It looks better in black and white desu. The coloring made everything look really muddy.

[Anonymous No.4049187]

>>4049092
Jorge Zaffino, Savage sword of Conan, I think. He's really underrated in my opinion and only did a few things with marvel when he was in his prime. He's survived by his son gerardo, who is also working on a current run of Conan, funnily enough

[Anonymous No.4049199]

>>4049181
Shitty colorist destroying decent art is all too common. It happens all the time. Probably because good artists tend to not become colorists. On its own it's a bit of a joke occupation, like look at me, I'm an adult who's completing coloring books for a living.

[Anonymous No.4049225]

>>4049199

And yet it's a critically important job, because with few exceptions black and white books don't sell.

Sad, really.

[Anonymous No.4049295]

>>4049187
This is fucking great.

[Anonymous No.4049439]

>>4049181
welcome to american comics

[Anonymous No.4049868]

>>4049225
Personally not a giant fan of black and white since half the time it feels unfinished for me personally unless it has the berserk hatch shedding in it to look really good. Then again I'm general artist who almost always colors her work no matter what unless it's comics.

[Anonymous No.4049882]

>>4049868

Nah you're on point, great colors elevate the artwork.

[Anonymous No.4050783]

Pyw

[Anonymous No.4050816]

>>4049868
Colored art is nice for standalone art and covers, but interior comic art works well in black and white. It's easier on the eyes.

[Anonymous No.4052974]

>>4050816
Even then, the if the black and white is jsut full on mostly white with some black it's. A massive GODDAMN turn off. It's screaming to be dumped with color. I mostly tolerate it when it's shades in with some greys and good use of black. Otherwise, I tend to,prefer limted color palettes or monochrome with the occasional splash of red.

[Anonymous No.4053071]

>>4048740
The shapes in this are so good. His composition for the face and his abstraction of it is just really awesomely done.

[Anonymous No.4053073]

>>4050816
how is high contrast black and white easier on the eyes than harmonious color. Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.4053085]

>>4053073
maybe he means greyscale

[Anonymous No.4053099]

>>4048627
>>politics that make sense for the story. Don't try to add modern political stuff (regardless of beliefs) into a work especially when it takes place in a non modern area. Now politics isn't bad inherently but honestly, when someone in a comic goes on a long tirade on why they hate or support trump...I'm leaving your comic.
anon, if you're writing a webcomic and thinking about owning the libs with it, you already failed. 4chan has turned you into a beaten dog. you will never please them or anyone. just write what you want.

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4053278]

>>4053071

Are you serious? That looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.4053286]

>>4029375
Move to Japan and make manga instead. It’s a much larger industry.

[Anonymous No.4053309]

>>4032567
Why did Manga start declining after 2007? What happened between 2007 and 2013?

[Anonymous No.4053319]

>>4029375

You become one of the lucky few to land a series at Marvel/DC, and smart enough to ink your own work. Then you can make $250-300+ per page, or $5-6k a month, plus $500+ if you get to do the covers, and if you're on a decently selling series you'll get royalties.

There aren't many jobs out there, but the talent pool is small. Imagine every artist out there and subtract the ones who aren't good enough, aren't fast enough, don't have the right look and are fine with the relatively low pay of comics. That's your competition.

[Anonymous No.4053321]

>>4043477

[Anonymous No.4053329]

>>4053278
No it doesn’t.

[Anonymous No.4053340]

>>4053329

It's a flat looking head that looks pasted onto a flat looking neck.

[Anonymous No.4053343]

>>4053340
>t. Retard who doesn’t understand lighting
Gotcha. Don’t even bother pursuing art btw. You’re a lost cause with zero talent.

[Anonymous No.4053393]

>>4053286
Don't, your better off making comics as a hobby or some shit.

[Anonymous No.4053486]

>>4053393
So starve. Ok. Sounds like the mindset of a quitter.

>wahh wahh, this is too hard, so I’ll just give up and do it as a hobby
Literally NGMI

[Anonymous No.4053497]

>>4053486
Read Manga Poverty:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DNVYNC4/

[Anonymous No.4053623]

>>4053321

Toriyama is so fucking good.

[Anonymous No.4053921]

>>4053073
Read literally any manga, you dumbass faggot.

[Anonymous No.4056414]

Jesus all these uncultured fucks. Have any of you read Kingdom Come? Seriously a masterpiece that transcends being a mere "comic". Feel there's a lot more sour grapes towards the style here than people are willing to admit

[Anonymous No.4056448]

>>4043477
Not sure if its good composition or a good moment

[Anonymous No.4056451]

>>4056448

[Anonymous No.4056503]

>>4053921
>easy on the eyes

[Anonymous No.4057344]

>>4056503
Okay so maybe not always but c'mon man get ye eyes checked

[Anonymous No.4059292]

this thread is proof that all you mangatards are ngmi