ConceptArt Forums keeps going down and I fear for the worst

[Anonymous No.3939316]

Is this the end for one of the greatest art forums ever made?

[Anonymous No.3939317]

>>3939316
>greatest art forums ever made?
that's not eatpoo

[Anonymous No.3939328]

>>3939316
hmm that green and pink image looks like it might be kinda nice

[Anonymous No.3939335]

>>3939316
it's been the end for years anon

[Anonymous No.3939346]

>>3939335
It's sad, there was a wealth of information and things to be inspired/motivated by on that platform. Literally you could look up whatever you were going through artistically with that website attached and you were sure to find some thread made on the topic years ago with helpful advice.

I really hope they don't shut down forever.

[Anonymous No.3939396]

>>3939316
Poor thing's been dying on life support for ages

[Anonymous No.3939406]

did Massive Black give up on their new forum?

[Anonymous No.3939465]

>>3939316
And nothing of value was lost. Also fuck Blackspot.

[Anonymous No.3939467]

>>3939465
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.3939477]

>>3939317
name?

[Anonymous No.3939524]

>>3939346
That's the main thing I'm sad about too. The wealth of info shared over the years being lost forever. There was a lot of useful threads created in it's heyday during the early to mid 2000s.

It was nice in the pre social media, pre smartphone, smaller web 2.0 days when it was easier talk directly to a professional artist and get advice from them. Now you're just one of thousands of their followers trying to get their attention. And they would rather have their own private discord that they can completely control instead of join someone else's forum. I miss message boards so much, even with the issues of authoritarian mods sometimes ;_;

[Anonymous No.3939532]

>>3939467
after you fucking bitch

[Anonymous No.3939582]

>>3939524
:(

[Anonymous No.3939587]

What's up with the Massive Black Forums? I feel like I've been waiting for a year for it to open, ffs

[Anonymous No.3942269]

>>3939524
I hate how centralized everything has become. There's already much less money around, and all the pros are jumping on every possible channel where they can make money because why not? So if you want to open a Patreon to get a dollar you have to compete with Ian McQue.
Imagine going at a local con trying to sell your indie comic for a dollar and you find all the superstars doing the same. How are you supposed to get any sort of experience if you have no chance to get any sort of income until you are capable of producing top tier professional work? All the pros that are veterans today started drawing when they were little more than beginners. This is why the manga industry still manages to produce new artists I think, they give new artists a chance.

[Anonymous No.3942270]

>>3942269
*started working, not started drawing

[Anonymous No.3942282]

>>3942269
So are you against free market?

[Anonymous No.3942288]

>>3942269
https://vids.me.me/4gifs-com-winning-olympic-vaults-56-years-apart-samsweetmilk-the-economic-43707623.mp4

[Anonymous No.3942301]

>>3942282
I'm not "against" it. That's just the way things have become and I don't see how it could be otherwise. I don't think pros are evil for going on Patreon to double dip. Matter of fact is if you want to be an artist you have to be a flawless pro from day 1 which wasn't the case before the internet.

>>3942288
I am not saying that standards should have remained low in the professional fields. The standards for "acceptable" art among intermediate artists have raised a lot and this is OK.
My point is that as of today you have to compete with veteran professionals from the very start because the market is saturated and the internet allows people to be ubiquitous.
I said how the manga industry still has apprenticeship and they have sections in their magazines to promote younger talent, sure there's a lot of competition but newer artists are given a chance. In the West they just select the cream of the crop of professionals and discard everyone else. The only relationship between a professional artist and a non professional artist in the West is the relationship where the professional artist sells you tutorials.

[Anonymous No.3942305]

>>3939316
WHEN IS MASSIVE BLACK OPENING???

[Anonymous No.3942308]

>>3942305
Who cares. I’m not cucked enough to become a pay pig for massive black

[Anonymous No.3942309]

>>3942301
>. Matter of fact is if you want to be an artist you have to be a flawless pro from day 1 which wasn't the case before the internet.

Before the internet it was more difficult to become a pro because there were no resources to learn from.

Put in effort
Profit

Either your work is worth money, or it is not. If pro get's 100$ p/h and you have 5% of his skill you won't get 5$ p/h. You will get ZERO. If you are 85% of his skill you might get 40% of his income if you are lucky. Still even 5$ p/h is making you rich in global standards. So you are 1% yourself, therefore stop whining get to work.

[Anonymous No.3942310]

>>3942301
The whole concept of apprenticeship is completely forgotten in the west, the idea that someone who is looking to become a professional works under a professional's tutorship and gets paid for it is absurd. It makes more sense that the apprentice should pay the pro for being allowed to learn.

[Anonymous No.3942317]

>>3942309
>Before the internet it was more difficult to become a pro because there were no resources to learn from.
*It was more difficult to be self-taught. If you go to art school today you do not walk out of it a professional. Today there's a ton more competition which I'm sure offsets the ease of learning the fundamentals - and only the fundamentals, learning the finer aspects of the job is just as hard as it was before.

>>3942309
>Either your work is worth money, or it is not. If pro get's 100$ p/h and you have 5% of his skill you won't get 5$ p/h. You will get ZERO. If you are 85% of his skill you might get 40% of his income if you are lucky. Still even 5$ p/h is making you rich in global standards. So you are 1% yourself, therefore stop whining get to work.
You completely missed my point but this idea that skill is directly proportional to earnings is bullshit too because there are many good artists who struggle to make any money. Social media has completely changed the way art needs to be presented and the importance of the artist as a person which means that the sheer quality of your artwork is much less important than it used to be.
But this is not the argument I was making, my argument is that there is no way for a person who is still learning to earn money while learning, your post clearly shows that in today's mindset it's seen as preposterous.

[Anonymous No.3942330]

>>3942317
>If you go to art school today you do not walk out of it a professional.
You can if you work hard and produce a portfolio after the last term. Was always the case except first couple years when concept artist was not even a position at studios.

>learning the finer aspects of the job is just as hard as it was before.
Like what? Everything used to be super secretive back in the days, you would have no idea about how even pipeline works.

>idea that skill is directly proportional to earnings is bullshit
Of course, like I said. Threshold is steep- you either are useful for the project and are compensated for your work nicely even as junior, or you don't get any work other than intern doing orthos if you are good enough, or just assigned random labor tasks so you don't bother anyone.
> many good artists who struggle to make any money.
What you define as good other will define as shitty. Market defines good art, not you or me. If you are good indeed, then unless you live in some 3rd world socialist hell or are an asshole you will get paid if that's what you are after.
>Social media has completely changed the way art needs to be presented and the importance of the artist as a person which means that the sheer quality of your artwork is much less important than it used to be.
Before social media those people who depend on it would not get any money in the first place.
Adapt. Overcome. Profit. If you need a following or community to make a living then social media is a blessing.
>my argument is that there is no way for a person who is still learning to earn money while learning.
Why would I pay you for your learning a highly specialized craft? Even if you signed a contract saying you will work for me for a fixed salary for a fixed period of time in exchange for me paying you to learn it would be a risk for me. Work at McDonalds or other industry that doesn't require a specialization and learn on your own in your spare time if you don't want to go to art uni.

[Anonymous No.3942340]

>>3942330
>You can if you work hard and produce a portfolio after the last term. Was always the case except first couple years when concept artist was not even a position at studios.
I didn't go to art school but many artists who went there said that art school did non prepare them professionally in the least.
>Market defines good art, not you or me.
True but good art isn't even about the art anymore.
>If you are good indeed, then unless you live in some 3rd world socialist hell
It doesn't have to be that, you just have to not live in the US.
>If you need a following or community to make a living then social media is a blessing.
If you just make artwork it's fucking terrible.
>Why would I pay you for your learning a highly specialized craft?
In the manga industry this thing is still in place, and you have a process where an assistant learns the craft while getting paid, and eventually publishes his own things (or stays an assistant forever). Manga industry is still alive and kicking, western comics are dead and nobody even knows how to make them anymore. There are still legit jobs in the concept art industry but how many of those are outsourced?
>if you don't want to go to art uni.
I don't live in the USA.

[Anonymous No.3942355]

>>3942340
>art school did non prepare them professionally in the least.
Public schools won't, good private schools will. People graduating Art Center, or FZD need nothing but a good portfolio.
>True but good art isn't even about the art anymore.
It is about your skill. I am starting to think you are talking about illustration or other things. I am talking about concept art because that's what I do and I am not interested in other things.
>It doesn't have to be that, you just have to not live in the US.
That is nothing but BS. Leaving in glorious capitalist US is great, but people work all around the world. I am not in the US myself atm. In fact if you live in a free society based on Judeo-Christian values you can live a good live freelancing, the poorer the country the easier it is because cost of living is lower. Check, move to shithole like Thailand and do the whole thing there if you need to.
>If you just make artwork it's fucking terrible.

What value would artwork on it's own have if you couldn't use social media to let people access it? Unless you mean production art- which like I said is skill based- present portfolio to a studio and get a job. No social media needed at all.
>In the manga industry
In the manga industry there is ton's of labor work that assistants do for shit money. I spoke with one girl who said in her opinion it is already changing with new generation using computers more and more- they already need half the people they used to to make the same number of panels compared to when her teachers worked. For example- they pay LESS for traditional media drawn backgrounds than digital made despite obvious difference in time reqs.
As for comics in the west- don't know/ don't care. Last time I heard they were pushing political correctness agenda.
>There are still legit jobs in the concept art industry but how many of those are outsourced?
You mean outside of US you claimed to be impossible to make it outside of?

[Anonymous No.3942358]

>>3942355
>I am starting to think you are talking about illustration or other things
Yeah I'm not talking about concept art. Concept art is a legit place to be although extremely saturated and full of outsourcing, but you can still find minor jobs as a literally who.
>move to shithole like Thailand
You just proved my point. You either live in the US where you're directly in touch with the market or you live in a place where the US does outsourcing.
>What value would artwork on it's own have if you couldn't use social media to let people access it?
Of course being able to post art online for everyone to see is nice, but there's a ton more attached to it and I especially detest the marketing stuff.
>As for comics in the west- don't know/ don't care. Last time I heard they were pushing political correctness agenda.
Pretty much.
>You mean outside of US you claimed to be impossible to make it outside of?
See my previous point.

In any case I know that putting in the work yadda yadda, of course you have to work hard unless art is not what you're really selling. I never said otherwise. I just have my doubts that we live in some kind of golden era for artists, it's great to have a lot of material to learn the basics and digital art made it easier to produce something pleasing, but everything else looks pretty bleak.

[Anonymous No.3942364]

>>3942358
>Yeah I'm not talking about concept art.

OK then whatever- except I still will claim it is work you produce that matters in the long run. Social exposure- yes, we get social media that one can take advantage of. Does community management take work outside of work related directly to art? Yeah, but it is a free market. And free market is fully altruistic system- either I give you what you need/ want/ like, or I loose. If people need a personality to appreciate art- it is just an added value to them. It is a good thing, not bad. Hopefully assholes will loose against nice people because of that.

Out of curiosity, two questions:
1 if not concept art, then what industry you are talking about?
2 Can you give some examples of
>> many good artists who struggle to make any money
?

[Anonymous No.3943158]

>>3942364
>Yeah, but it is a free market.
In theory free market is good but in practice it's a race to the bottom.
>Hopefully assholes will loose against nice people because of that.
Actually the opposite. Being loud and arrogant is rewarded.

[Anonymous No.3943208]

>>3939587
how'd u expect it to come on time with a name like that.

[Anonymous No.3943218]

>>3942301
you are comparing internet and manga industry?
what the fuck
being popular on internet in jap is just as hard as anywhere that is assuming you really good at english
also
manga have to rely on story so the art can average and they still take it
if you want go to webtoon and see mediocre artist still made big buck because of the story

[Anonymous No.3944055]

>>3943158
>In theory free market is good but in practice it's a race to the bottom.

In theory government regulated market is great but in practice millions of people die.

Capitalism elevates people from poverty, your bottom in capitalism is more wealthy than top class in communist hell.

[Anonymous No.3944057]

>>3944055
Actually I made a mistake.

In theory government regulated market is immoral, and in practice millions of people die.