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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3893590 No.3893590 [Reply] [Original]

>just draw from life and you'll learn how to stylize naturally

>> No.3893593
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3893593

>> No.3893609
File: 250 KB, 960x960, 1546129129117.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893609

>>3893590
it gets funnier every time, it's just so embarassing anons...

>> No.3893615

>>3893590
>>3893609
god those first couple threads were fun

>> No.3893618

Woah so this is the power of 20 years of watts atelier

>> No.3893644

>>3893609
could someone explain to me the Proko abortion meme?
dis his wife have a miscarriage or something?

>> No.3893663
File: 49 KB, 721x480, proko bhutan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893663

>> No.3893672

wtf? This guy is a really big name. How does this happen?

>> No.3893673

>>3893590
This should kill the real life memes. No one is gonna spend more time than Proko doing real life drawing and this is how far he got drawing comics.

>> No.3893687

>>3893673
desu anyone that say's you need to master real life means you'll be good at comic and stylizing is a fucking mouth breathing retard
is it good to know real life basics? yes
you should know somewhat the layout of animals and people so you can bend them to make it more appealing

>> No.3893690

>>3893644
It's a kangaroo you blind cunt.

>> No.3893691

being able to draw from life or do good studies doesn’t give you good taste, who knew. still doesn’t prove or disprove anything, because all great artists have done life studies.

>> No.3893692

>>3893590
Jesus I need to rethink my life now.

>> No.3893699

>>3893590
You'll be good at what you do
he looks solid in figure drawing,if he never did comic and animals he can't be good

>> No.3893761

>>3893691
>>3893699
drawing from life is important but if you want to draw stylized things then actually doing stylized drawings is important as well. there are people who unironically believe that if you become vilppu-tier at figure drawing you'll automatically know how to make an appealing cartoon.

>> No.3893767
File: 788 KB, 852x430, 1485606720471.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893767

>>3893692
Is there a problem?

>> No.3893793

>>3893663
can someone please explain this meme to me i am in an out of this place every few months

>> No.3893795

>>3893767
What?
post the video source

>> No.3893812

>>3893761
>to be able to do the thing you have to do the thing
well duh. still, I’d rather be proko, who is good at one thing (draughtsmanship) but sucks at other things (cartoons) than someone who isn’t good at either of those things.

>> No.3893814

I always repeat this... This isn't about life drawing. Life drawing is great practice at any level.
Proko is atelier trained and only knows how to copy, but he markets to young artists who don't want to copy sight size, so he fakes it. All atelier painters draw like shit from imagination because they don't know how to use volumes. Proko probably copies his construction examples from offscreen in the videos. When he draws from life you can see he pretends to use construction but he can't, so he makes random misshapen boxes and copies the rest on top.
I have no idea why this board is extremely savage on artists but keeps worshipping fucking kangaroo man. Watch Vilppu instead of this clown.

>> No.3893817

>>3893793
proko tried to draw a kangaroo without a reference in a livestream once and that’s seriously what it looked like.

>> No.3893818

>>3893644
>>3893793
>>3893795
Here's the spoonfeed, faggot
https://youtu.be/4h4-2HRHaHI

>> No.3893824

>>3893817
Actually it was a cartoon dog.
Any artist capable of using construction would have had no problem drawing something that looks solid. He would have had no problem drawing a cartoony dog on his first attempt. This guy teaches anatomy but he can't imagine a basic dog's skeleton? Can't you realize how fishy this is?

>> No.3893828

>>3893687
This is not the point. The point is the method you use. If your actually use construction then drawing from life trains you to interpret volumes. It translates perfectly well into cartooning, there is no real gap between animation style cartooning and realism, it's just simplified.
The problem is that proko copies, he doesn't use construction. But he teaches construction. So because of his shitty kangaroo a bunch of beginner artists think drawing from life is pointless. It's absolute clownery

>> No.3893830

>>3893824
Horse hooves, a tall cranium, distinct hand sections, and no cute tail is a dog?

>> No.3893832

>>3893830
I was there during the stream, his attempt was a cartoon dog. Then people called it a kangaroo so in the video that he posted on YT he says it's a kangaroo. But it was really meant to be a cartoon dog.

>> No.3893846

>>3893767
Look at this shit. He's never used construction not even once, can't even approach reference. He would have drawn the cranium of the dog and added the muzzle and the fluff, that's what makes it look triangular. But he's so trained to copy that he draws the head as a triangle like a flat shape because that's all he sees. It's very likely that if you catch him out of his fake environment he can't even draw a person beyond stick figure level

>> No.3893854
File: 214 KB, 1047x742, Proko_Art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893854

>>3893609

>> No.3893860
File: 789 KB, 874x876, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893860

>>3893767

>> No.3893863

>>3893590
Proko is a direct result of relying too much on reference, the same goes for you fags that want to copy off animay you will become too reliant on copying off others instead of producing your own pieces with your name on them.

>> No.3893865

>>3893590
Are all instructors at the watts atelier on this level? I’ve noticed that none of them post work that isn’t a study or heavily referenced.

>> No.3893886

>>3893863
this

>> No.3893890

>>3893590
This is still cringy to look at holy shit

>> No.3893927

>>3893590
Style is desing.
Design is language.
Have you ever learned a language by doing something tangentially related?

>> No.3893960
File: 47 KB, 570x719, it's alive.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3893960

>>3893690
>>3893818
Not him,but I thought it resembled the baby from IT'S ALIVE.

>> No.3894015

>>3893767
>KILL ME

>> No.3894018

>>3893830
Yes, yes he was indeed initially attempting to draw a dog, then, upon realizing the monstrosity he'd created, fell back on kangaroo

>> No.3894066

>>3893832
He says in the video "Oh, it looks like a kangaroo, sure it's a kangaroo" and then changed it a bit to make it more kangaroo like. You either weren't there, or you have a shit-tier memory.

>> No.3894083

>>3893761
duh

>> No.3894085

>>3893814
>All atelier painters draw like shit from imagination because they don't know how to use volumes.
Some ateliers like florence academy are going heavy into sculpting due to this

It's the only thing holding me for going there, too

>> No.3894088
File: 25 KB, 640x518, 1513243011140.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3894088

>>3893590

>> No.3894091

>>3893863
I think Proko hasn't invested even an 1% of the time he spent on the atelier on actually drawing -anything- from imagination

It just baffles me how people go to certain ateliers and become content with just the ability to do sight-size method and above average color mixing

There's so much more to painting and drawing

It would be sad to be able to do some kickass portraits or charcoals but NOT A DOG FROM IMAGINATION

Fuck

>> No.3894108

What do I do if I *only* want to draw from imagination, bros?
What is the anti-Proko method?

>> No.3894110

>>3894108
Actually draw from imagination at least once in your life

>> No.3894111

>>3894108
I guess you would have to get better at visualizing and constructing everything from basic shapes.

>> No.3894112

>>3894108
>>3894110
I thought the whole point of learning anatomy was to be able to kind of 3d model in your head so you don't need a reference to be accurate. Prokos anatomy stuff were the first videos I saw from him. I kind of figured that was his thing.

>> No.3894120

>>3894066
Search for the thread in the archive.

>> No.3894122

>>3894108
Draw constructively instead of by copy.

>> No.3894124

>>3893863
This had nothing to do with using reference. It's a method problem. If you draw like an atelier painter you will draw like shit from imagination

>> No.3894127

Can measuring with plumb lines, measuring sticks and grids ultimately help with learning to draw from imagination?

>> No.3894146

>>3894124
So depending on reference?

>> No.3894150

>>3894108
You need to work from ref ->draw same thing without ref->repeat until you get a solid visual library to draw from, and over the years lower ref use little by little as you draw more and more from imagination

>> No.3894156
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3894156

>>3894108
You still have to have a good foundation of gesture to the point where you internalize it, but you'll want to use shape/form-based construction. Japs and people emulating Japs also do a lot of contour drawing based on gesture.

>> No.3894171
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3894171

>>3893818

>> No.3894177
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3894177

>>3893818
Why watching is so satisfying?

>> No.3894178
File: 534 KB, 1280x720, 1554577458416.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3894178

>>3894108
trace. trace a lot. you will figure out everything else you need by tracing a lot. you might need 100 traced pages until you make a small breakthru, or 300, but you will learn. some of those breakthrus tracing teaches you:
>line quality (duh, you will try different ways since you will get bored with times, and so you will find what works for you best)
>breaking down objects into shapes (if you bother not to trace 100% what you see, but draw geometrical shapes which better fit what you are tracing)
>sketching (having nice lines and knowing what geometrical shapes fits into what is enough for some simple sketches)
>inking (duh)
>edge control
>shadow and light separation
congratulation, you now know how to sketch and ink your sketches, thats enough to start drawing from imagination. from here its where you are suppose to start doing studies, to expand your visual memory. what tracing will not teach you is rendering, which is the main reason why you do studies

you will find out how boring learning to draw actually is, but atleast you wont have to worry if the hours spend where for nothing or not

>> No.3894186

>>3894150
It's actually the other way around. Your brain is more willing to accept you'r mistakes when you add the frame of reference after the failed attempt.

>> No.3894198

>>3894186
and if you repeat the process 10 times with the same subject you wont get thru that?

>> No.3894305

>>3894108
Use basic construction methods and understand structure and anatomy. Literally Loomis. He didn't want you drawing cubes and cylinders becauee he had a geometry fetish, it was because everything can be simplified into basic forms. From there, understand anatomy, structure, perspective, lighting, etc.

Using refs is ok but try to figure out the construction underneath and test yourself without reference. Study. Repeat

>> No.3894342

>>3894178
tracing photographs or tracing other art?

>> No.3894435

>>3894146
Depending on copy, not reference.
You can use reference to draw constructively and that will transfer to your imaginative drawings because if you use reference in constructive drawings you are interpreting what you see.

>> No.3894436

>>3894112
>I thought the whole point of learning anatomy was to be able to kind of 3d model in your head so you don't need a reference to be accurate.
That is exactly what happens if you learn anatomy with a constructive method. This won't happen if you copy anatomy plates sight-size.

>> No.3894441

>>3893590
wtf is that?

>> No.3894484

Where do I go to learn the exact opposite of proko? He can draw realistically rendered figures but can't draw a cartoon dog. Who can draw 10/10 cartoons and comics but lacks in realistic anatomy?

>> No.3894559

>>3894484
john k

>> No.3894562

>>3894484
You go to your drawing program or pen & paper

>> No.3894573

>>3893818
he's literally just not good...why do ppl take his advice..

>> No.3894690

>>3894198
No.

>> No.3894728

>>3893865

Daddy Watts has a sketchbook tour at the end of this livestream, they are done from imagination:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU4tfukuhPY

E.M. Gist seems pretty decent too

>> No.3894739
File: 3.60 MB, 800x446, Average night in for Stan-min.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3894739

anyone kinda respect him more after all of this? like before, he seemed kinda untouchable, everyone would tout him as the final authority for just about anything anatomy related. I was very contrarian back then so I would hate on him a ton. He is still an excellent draftsman, but after that imagination stream it's like he became humbled, and seeing him embarrass himself on stream and encounter his flaws kinda turned me over to him. I enjoy his content more now since he's more human

>> No.3894741

>>3894085
>Some ateliers like florence academy are going heavy into sculpting due to this

That's nice, but those who attend there are likely just as bad as Proko if they haven't spend a lot of time drawing from imagination.

I've studied at an atelier for a couple of years and my conclusion after meeting a LOT of talented/skilled artists in that enviroment is that beautiful life paintings and drawings have little to no carry over to imagination work, unless studied very specifically on the side. I've seen downright shocking examples of this, people who could make the most exquisite pencil rendering from life then proceed to draw crude /beg/ tier stuff when attempting to invent stuff.

Only those who came from a illustration mindset (familiar with Loomis et. al methods, basically what you see on this board) and were used to sketch stylized stuff were able to translate their life drawing experience into imagination work.

>> No.3894746

>>3894739
>that .gif
fucking KEK

>> No.3894767

>>3894741
Yes, for now I still want to apply for an atelier, as sight-size and impeccable color mixing will take you far as a fine artist, so I will invest time studying Bargue plaques

But it's true that you should never put all your eggs in the same basket. I'm studying from Huston and Schmid, whose style is more construction/impressionist/free hand oriented. I love their works, too, much more soul than any of the known ateliers and their instagram painters.

>> No.3894771

>>3893863
So that explains it. There's a chick in my class who can do 1:1 portraits of random people, from pictures or real life, but can't draw from imagination to save her life. It's like mediocre DA tier trash, I'm not making this up. Makes sense.

>> No.3894775

>>3894739
>like before, he seemed kinda untouchable, everyone would tout him as the final authority for just about anything anatomy related
are you literally braindead

>> No.3894907

>>3893590

What is even the Joke here? "PolyGUNS" ?

WHAT WAS HE THINKING?

>> No.3894956

>>3894907
he's been thinking about guns a lot since the imagination stream

>> No.3894970

>>3893863
No, it's nothing to do with copying. It's from drawing from life/observation and not from imagination. Copying the art you want to make is how the masters of every genre get better. Copying anime or anything is fine as long as you practice from imagination and construction as well.

>> No.3894984

>>3894739
anyone have the source for this? want to make it a webm

>> No.3895082

>>3894984
https://youtu.be/qiTUSDCbGPw?t=388

>> No.3895116

>>3893590
>>just draw from life and you'll learn how to stylize naturally

One caveat, YOU NEED GOOD TASTE!

>> No.3895123
File: 2.91 MB, 1920x1080, Proko and chill.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3895123

>>3895082
thanks

>> No.3895124

>>3895123
Np, now your turn to help me out
how do you make a webm out of a youtube video?

>> No.3895133
File: 2.89 MB, 1920x1080, qiTUSDCbGPw.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3895133

>>3895124
youtube-dl to download the video (you can also use it to download just video or just audio)
download WebMConverter to make the webm
enable 2 pass encoding, calculate bitrate by doing 24576 / (length of clip in seconds) for files under 3072kb

>> No.3895141

>>3895133
thanks anon

>> No.3895147

>>3894775
Clearly you haven't been here for that long, newfriend. There was a big span of time where people would idolize him and his tutorials, before skelle and the fucking kagaroo fetus

>> No.3895267

>>3894342
yes

>> No.3895387
File: 392 KB, 1099x612, THICC.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3895387

>>3895082
HNNNGGGGGGGG

>> No.3895391

>>3895387
>>3895133
I dont watch his videos so I might be wrong, biased by what you guys choose to post, but to me it looks like he did a video on how to draw butts only to have an excuse and make those jokes

>> No.3895404

>>3895147
I have, and all those posts were clearly tongue in cheek.

>> No.3895422

>>3894739
>unironically wearing a shirt with your name on it
wew

>> No.3895441

>>3895422
>unironically not wearing a shirt with your name on it at all times

How else are people going to know your name retard?

>> No.3895451

>>3893590

>>3894108
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqu5SEFqRI
here you go
At least proko admits his mistakes. He's bad at imagination which is quite sad condering how fun playing with your mind is. But he has great content on his channel.

>> No.3896238

>>3895441
kek

>> No.3896262

Why does he have so many caricature videos. Isnt that the fallback of hack fraud?

>> No.3896495

>>3896262
>Isnt that the fallback of hack fraud?
Caricatures are really hard. I don't like them as the final product but I can appreciate what goes in to making them. da Vinci and Monet did caricatures, way more artists than you realize have done them. Caricature is "fraudulent" when it's the people who draw the same face for every thing they know, which a lot of street artists do. If you're an artist you should be able to appreciate exaggerating the features of something to make it more striking while still maintaining the likeness than just copying. illustration is a lot of caricaturization, simplification, abstraction, and shape design. you still have to know anatomy, expression, and command of volume for good caricatures.

>> No.3896537

>>3894108
DON’T
>>3894178

>> No.3896736

>>3896537
stay bad

>> No.3896754

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqu5SEFqRI
>0:15
I bet he's seen every single edit

>> No.3896885

>>3893590
Anyone who tells you that you’ll learn how to stylize naturally is pulling your leg. Stylization is something you consciously develop as you work on your fundies.

>> No.3896889

>>3896885
>moving goalpost to stay right

>> No.3896913

>>3893828
>It translates perfectly well into cartooning, there is no real gap between animation style cartooning and realism, it's just simplified.

There is still a huge gap because cartooning is simplified AND designed.

If you want to learn cartooning you have to practice cartooning.
That's what animators do when they do life drawing sessions.
>https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt2kzn8FI0r/

>> No.3896923

>>3896913
It's impossible that someone who's been using construction for 10+ years is incapable of producing a cartoon dog. Even if he never drew a dog before, it's impossible to fail this hard.

>> No.3897057

>>3896889
What are you talking about? I’ve never agreed with /ic/ on the idea that stylization should be done at the end. That’s why I never listed to them on that, and did what I felt was best.

>> No.3897154

>>3895133
is this shit really why people like Proko
because he's art pewdiepie?
I see lots of these retarded joke videos, this is is persona?

>> No.3897326

>>3896923
I still can't believe someone who's been copying tons of photos for years doesn't have a brain library big enough to help him draw a fucking dog

>> No.3897433

>>3897326
Because the method for copying does NOT build a visual library. You are doing the exact opposite, you are learning to see just shapes and measurements to transfer on the canvas. The photo you copy becomes abstract in your head.

>> No.3897497

>>3897154
>1 ten second clip of proko is all of his content

>> No.3897521

>>3897497
I saw a bunch of these clips on /ic/ and the kangaroo, it was enough for me to steer clear. I considering him like Jazza at this point.
I'll stick to my Vilppu videos.

>> No.3897563
File: 257 KB, 2352x494, pyw.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3897563

>>3896754
KEK

>> No.3897999

>>3893767
Shit like this scares me, the idea of spending years studying art and not even being able to draw a fucking dog, although granted he could have been just warming up.
>>3897563
>post your work
my sides

>> No.3899639

>>3894739
>anyone kinda respect him more after all of this?
no. but I respect his audience a lot less

>> No.3902825

>>3893818
fuck