Commissioned work

[Anonymous No.3877883]

So I just read about this guy (@KingRichard) not paying the artists he commissioned, after approving the artwork multiple times. Apparently these artists asked for 10% deposit upfront, which seems extremely little to me. However this got me wondering, for those of you who do commisions, how much do you ask upfront? (also feel free to show your commission sheets as I'm fairly interested in possibly doing commissions too)

[Anonymous No.3877888]

>>3877883
Always 50% or I don't even start, and if something is too big of a project, 100%. You'd have to be an idiot to trust strangers online.

[Anonymous No.3877890]

>>3877888
This. 50% upfront, 50% after I supply the sketch.

[Anonymous No.3877892]

100% upfront, always.

[Anonymous No.3878007]

>>3877888
>>3877890
>>3877892
How do you guys usually set your prices? Do you have a standard sheet (i.e. x amount of dollars for a full body/torso+head/etc) or do you decide on a case by case basis?

[Anonymous No.3878008]

WE

[Anonymous No.3878010]

>>3878007
Fixed prices, always tell the client upfront. Doing it on a case by case basis becomes hell when your clients know each other, and referrals/return business is the only way to survive doing commissions long-term.

[Anonymous No.3878022]

WUZ

i dont do commission because im garbage

[Anonymous No.3878026]

>>3878007
Fixed prices for lineart/cel-shading/painting. Flat additional fee for background elements. I don't tier out portraits vs body because IMO it's really not that much more effort to add some legs if I'm already drawing a torso and I don't like very bloated commission sheets.

[Anonymous No.3878049]

>>3878010
>>3878026
Alrighty, thanks for the info boys. Good luck on your future endeavors.

>>3878022
Dw about it brother. Someday we'll both make it. Keep your head up buddy.

[Anonymous No.3878057]

>>3877883
A nigger stealing art, how surprising

[Anonymous No.3878064]

>>3877883
>Do you have a standard sheet
These should never, ever be used in a professional setting. You would be extremely foolish to use a commission chart when quoting illustrations for real-world, well paid projects. I wouldn't even recommend it for cheap private/personal commissions on social media, as it's a terrible way to price illustration work, not to mention it'll build bad habits of underselling your work and charging purely based on how long something takes to complete.

Pricing work on a case-by-case basis is critically important. There are many factors that come into consideration, but here's a big part of it (copy/pasted from a similar thread): Commissioned work for real-world projects and clients is largely based on >HOW IT IS USED<, not how long it takes (though that can sometimes be a factor).

For example: Let's say you are illustrating two covers for two different magazines. Client A is a small, regional magazine while Client B is a large, internationally known publication. They both commission you to illustrate a cover, and let's say each illustration will take roughly the same amount of time to complete.

Since the workload is the same for both clients, should you charge them the same price? Fuck no. You would charge Client B more money than you would Client A. This is because the illustration you've created has a much higher value to Client B than it does to Client A, since the circulation of Client B's magazine is so much larger than Client A's magazine. It is used to a much greater extent, and you are entitled to more money as a result.

In short: The more usage = the more money. This is the reason why a larger company is willing to pay more than smaller businesses (and much more than personal commissions), and why you should negotiate the pay for each project based on who you're working for and how the work will be used.

[Anonymous No.3878071]

>>3878022
KANGZ

[Anonymous No.3878082]

>>3878064
very smart and business oriented

[Anonymous No.3878085]

>>3878064
If it's all used for some fag to fap to and impress is e-friends with, doesn't a price sheet make sense? I agree about use but you're not looking at what anons here are doing. Also you forgot the value of lowballing for the sake of your portfolio. I can charge private clients more because I was in the local rag I did for dirt cheap in comparison.

[Anonymous No.3878165]

>>3877883
50%, before I pick up a pencil or stylus - and I'm not doing character commissions, I do commercial illustration.

This is a non-negotiable point, been burned too many times in the past.

I have a couple of rules that I do not bend/compromise on:

1. Contract
2. 50% deposit

This will scare away most of the scammers/flakes/moochers.

I also don't work on spec. You want thumbnails? Hire me. I've had too many free thumbnail ideas get taken to cheaper artists. My ideas are part of the price, you don't get them free.

[Anonymous No.3878169]

>>3878165
You have a boilerplate you don't mind posting?

[Anonymous No.3878179]

>>3878064
Your whole premise relies in assuming fixed prices means not having different tier(s) for commercial usage. For most art commissions online, you're not doing stuff for projects, but for people.

[Anonymous No.3878192]

>>3878064
This.

You're an artist, not a starbucks. You don't use a menu.

[Anonymous No.3878207]

>>3878169
No, sorry. I paid a lawyer to help revise/tweak mine, and it's more of a framework. It's better that you learn how they work, and learn how to tailor them to your own needs. The Graphic Artists Guild Handbook is a great resource for boilerplate, that's up to snuff on current contract law.
A contract can be simply stating what the work is, the price, and the terms. Mine has some clauses you may not need, mine has terms for things like revisions that are tailored to the industries I work in, and clarifying what rights I'm transferring.

[Anonymous No.3878220]

>>3878207
So you have a boilerplate you delete the irrelevant shit from but paid out the ass for it, fair enough. I've looked into it before but wanted something to look at to tweak the one I'm working on. Guess it's time to visit the lawyer. This shit is complicated and I can deal with most of it but fuck if I want to.

[Anonymous No.3878236]

>it's a nigger
Not a big surprise

[Anonymous No.3878240]

>>3878064
Good post.
>you should negotiate the pay for each project based on who you're working for and how the work will be used
But what about private persons? I believe., many Anons are concerned with how to price pieces for private persons than companies because i don't think people can be bothered to negotiate prices with the artists except getting the thing as cheap as possible.
I've never done any commission work, so i'd like to know.

[Anonymous No.3878243]

>>3878236
K thanks for the input go back to /pol/ now. No one likes you.

[Anonymous No.3878248]

>>3878243
Where's he wrong tho coal burner?

[Anonymous No.3878269]

>>3878220
Very complicated, agreed, which is why I did it. I'm an artist, not a lawyer. Like I said, a basic contract is easy, the stuff I'm dealing with, not so much - and I believe every artist should learn what their rights are, and how to protected them. I've had clients send me contracts that just made me laugh - which is why I make the contract, not them.

[Anonymous No.3878270]

>>3877883
Since this thread seems the best place to put this: do any of you guys taking private commissions use a payment handler other than Paypal? I'm worried about getting outed to them eventually since my paid work is mostly NSFW. I've know I've seen a few people advertising that they take BTC but I'd rather not deal with the price swings and huge fees of alt currencies if possible.

[Anonymous No.3878273]

>>3878240
Different anon. The "menu" sets a minimum rate and sets clear prices for "options". You lose out on being able to go higher and some people you'd go lower for but it saves time from lowballing and sending out quotes. If all you do are pinups and greek wrestling scenes, it's a great way to maximize profit for different tiers of work. For example, pinups are piss easy and don't take much time, throw in time consuming rendering being extra, bump your regular prices and you've just saved yourself from an extra most people aren't going to pick. If they do you take a hit but that's "portfolio" work.

The only time I'd cut the shit and give a quote is for real work I know I can do. Then all the scales start dropping and a number comes out my mouth. It also helps if it's a whale, then I turn all Michaelangelo getting commissioned by the pope.

[Anonymous No.3878283]

>>3878269
That I agree with. You're coming to me, you sign my contracts. I'm in a weird area called I don't know if I want to dip into fine art and the rights involved. I prefer my current structure where I own everything and fuck you, you just get to look at it and post it.

[Anonymous No.3878282]

>>3878240
The way to look at a contract, private client or not, is "what would I need in a court, to defend my rights?"

That's what a contract does. They can't say "you didn't say that much money!" if it's on record.

If someone won't sign on the dotted line, wether it's $5 or $5000...why would you do business with them?

The fact is, in the private commission world, there are plenty of people COUNTING on it not being worth your time to haul them into court. Don't do business with them. And, if they're in another country, 100% up front, because it would be on you to fly there and file a claim against them for non-payment.

[Anonymous No.3878335]

>>3877883
100% upfront. They have the power to reverse the paypal payment anyway.

[Anonymous No.3878352]

>>3878243
I like him, nobody likes cucks like yourself

[Anonymous No.3878399]

>>3877883
>@KingRichard
It's a fucking nigger, of course you don't trust it.

[Anonymous No.3878842]

>>3878335
Wait, what? if the client can cancel the payment after you give the hi-res jpegs, then how do you avoid getting fucked over? sorry, not too familiar with commissions and paypal

[Anonymous No.3878917]

>>3878842
You wait until the payment is finalized and cannot be cancelled anymore before giving the final product,
Depending on the country you're in there is a specific amount of time a consumer can cancel payments/revoke contracts and so on..
So, it should be the same if you get paid through paypal.

[Anonymous No.3879142]

I ask for full payment after sending a very rough pose sketch, which has no details and barely resembles the character. The client is assured I'm not fucking them over, and I don't procrastinate starting the commission. Having money upfront makes you lazy

>>3878842
if you use paypal invoices you're much better protected.

[Constructive Criticism Thread No.3879145]

>>3878399
Wtf

[Anonymous No.3879157]

>>3877883
I usually don't ask for anything until I at least have a sketch in which case it's usually 100%.

Honestly though, I would prefer to avoid being paid until I'm about halfway done because I can't guarantee I'll like it enough to even finish.

[Anonymous No.3879166]

lol

[Anonymous No.3879323]

>>3877883
These days I rarely take private commissions as most people are too poor/not serious enough. The lack of professionalism was killing ne. You’d have dudes with some grand idea for a project, and they wanted me to do their, that they would pay me Like 5k, abd then it’d fall through before itvefen started not even a month in.

Now i just use Upwork. Sure they take a % but a contract is a contract, so you know you’re guaranteed money when someone comes to you with a proposal. And if you’re good and have good feedback, you get access to well-paying jobs.

[Anonymous No.3881665]

>>3877883
I only do quick character art. I just get commissions for personal reasons (avatar for RP, DND character art, etc) so I have a template of prices. But the pricing is not fixed, you have to asses first the amount of details they're asking, and you talk with them about it before you both agree on a price. Basically, the template is just a guideline.

Then to get in their good graces I make them a low-resolution very rough sketch so they have an idea on what they'll get. Then I ask for 100% payment before the commission goes through. That way even when they decline to pay they only get the dirty sketch.

Use an invoice system (like paypal).

[Anonymous No.3881744]

>>3877883
50% at least

[Anonymous No.3881850]

>>3877883
I do a basic sketch, then ask for 100% once they approve the pose. Hasn't failed me.

[Anonymous No.3882471]

>>3878248
>>3878352
>>3878243
All three of you are retarded. Now shut the fuck up and make out.

[Anonymous No.3882472]

>>3878399
post your work.

[Anonymous No.3882490]

>>3878399
How idiotic does one have to be to think that only people of certain skin colors do shit like this?

[Anonymous No.3882512]

>>3882490
Color of skin, facial features, bone structures. Weird, all these biological differences. Probably just skin deep though, it's not like their brains, and thus behaviour, are any different. Right, goy?

[Anonymous No.3882516]

Could be worse.

[Anonymous No.3882517]

{2/2]

[Anonymous No.3882524]

>>3882516
This is bad but not as bad. King Richard didn't pay the artist, bragged about it, played the "I don't have money card" then flexed his money a moment later.

[Anonymous No.3882531]

>>3882517
This is why you always ask for at least 50% upfront.

[Anonymous No.3882694]

>>3882524
Pretty niggardly of him, ngl

[Anonymous No.3883334]

>>3882516
>>3882517
Sosa is right. If someone half asses their service and it can be proven then why pay