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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

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3861041 No.3861041 [Reply] [Original]

Why does art come naturally to some people, but others have to grind away for a lifetime?

>> No.3861047

>>3861041
it doesn't, literally every artist is going through most of the same problems you are

>> No.3861059

>>3861041
It's a mental process above all. People think and mature differently, and no one can teach you how to think.

>> No.3861060

>>3861041
Talent. What, you thought talent doesn't exist?
Everyone who denies the existence of talent is either a naive beginner or talented himself.

>> No.3861066

Because some people are smarter than others. Others have better memory. Some people were taught how to learn skills from an early age while others just stared at screens. Some people are just less prone to sobbing about talent on /ic/ instead of drawing.

>> No.3861071
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3861071

>>3861041
It's all about starting early. If you start when you're a teenager you're not going to feel the toll and you're still going to be fresh when you start earning money. If you start at 25 you're already tired inside, so the same amount of work will seem titanic. Add to this that it's hard to keep your enthusiasm when you know that high schoolers are better than you.
Also if you start your social medias in 2019 at 25, and considering that most pros have been around for 10, even 15 years to get a public, you're looking at getting some patreon funding when you're in your mid 40s.
And chances are you started drawing because you have a depressive / solitary personality, so you don't function too well. This is why you made this thread. Artists that make it are healthy artists, full of spirit and joy, and they have a social life. They are smart and positive.
It was over from the start, anon.

>> No.3861074

>>3861059
>>3861060
>>3861066
>>3861071
you are all retarded

>> No.3861078

>>3861071
Words of truth.

>> No.3861079

>>3861074
Why?

>> No.3861083

>>3861059
Yep. Its comes temperament. Kind of like how some kids go through more seperation anxiety than others.

>> No.3861206

>>3861041

Some people are just naturally quick studies. They absorb abstract concepts more readily. It's less about intelligence and more about imagination and mental flexibility, although it correlates with intelligence.

These people also tend to plateau very early and have a really hard time breaking through it because suddenly they have to work hard to get better. Being "talented" really sucks once you hit adulthood.

>> No.3861212

It doesn’t come quick to ANYONE.

Every good artist has spent a lot of years working on art. There’s no exception. It’s just like any other craft.

Besides, I don’t understand why people get so bent by this sometimes. Skills are one thing but they can be built to an adiquate level, after that it stops being about how well you draw/paint and more about your actual subject and expression and that doesn’t have anything to do with anyone else’s work, it’s a personal thing.

>> No.3861224

>>3861060
>Everyone who denies the existence of talent is either a naive beginner or talented himself.
By what logic? You think someone who could churn out pro tier work back in kindergarten while everyone else smeared shit on a canvas wouldn't be able to fucking notice?

>> No.3861229

because if you enjoy an activity you want to do it a lot, so it gets easier with time

>> No.3861232

>>3861071
>Artists that make it are healthy artists, full of spirit and joy, and they have a social life. They are smart and positive.

Woah, woah, woah now, that is one-hundred percent untrue. Plenty of even famous depressed artist, and even more who are loners and have negative opinions about their own art.

In my art school there’s a couple of people already working at a proffessional level and they’re both on antidepressants and one of them has had weird schizophrenia episodes.

>> No.3861241

>>3861041

Some people are too prideful to learn. They refuse to do the work until every question they have is answered to their personal satisfaction, despite being so beginner they don't know how dumb their questions are, and cannot comprehend the answers.

It's like trying to teach fighting game strategy to someone who refuses to play, and just wants to know the "super secret finishing moves."

>> No.3861247

>>3861232
>In my art school
wealthy people have it easy

>> No.3861248

>>3861224
>talent existing means work is not a factor
People are different, their physical and cognitive abilities are different. These differences are negligable most of the time, but as soon as you get to the higher percentiles the ones who are physically and mentally better equiped for the task will naturally be able to progress where others stagnate.

If you deny this you are literally retarded.

>> No.3861249

>>3861248
that's more because of the working environment they grew up in, not some genetic talent anon

>> No.3861253

>>3861224
Because saying "I have become so good at drawing because I am talented" comes out as incredibly arrogant, so talented people are forced to say it's all hard work.
And yeah sure there's a lot of hard work but it's pretty clear that there's a difference between people going pro in 2 years while I spent 8 and I'm still not there. And there are things that people do better that are mostly about how good of an eye you have for composition. Some people have just a better affinity for that sort of shit. I study hard and I can't grasp it.

>> No.3861267

>>3861247
Nah, I got a scholarship for financial need.

>> No.3861293

>>3861248
>>talent existing means work is not a factor
Ahahahahah, who are you quoting? How did your brain manage to equate fucking kindergartners with top-of-the-line industry legends and idols? Lmfao, the fuck does a first-world kindergartner know what "hard work" is?

>>3861253
Well, that sounds reasonable. But "talented" or otherwise obviously circumstantially lucky people saying "all u need to make it is work hard bro just look at me lol" are the bigger assholes no matter what. There's a thick-ass line between arrogance and fake condescension.

>> No.3861299

>>3861229
This

>> No.3861302

>>3861071
>Artists that make it are healthy artists, full of spirit and joy, and they have a social life.
Ah yes; I forgot that people like Goya, Van Gogh and Emily Brontë are pictures of perfect mental health.

>>3861212
There are certainly some people who take a shine to art more quickly than others but I think that the most significant disconnect is that the people who become good in a hurry are people who love what they're doing instead of forcing themselves to grind because then they'll be gud at art.

>> No.3861314

>>3861302
>implying van gogh wasn't memed into popularity by jews after his death

>> No.3861362

>>3861314
>implying the attention was undeserving

Van Gogh died in poverty because he was fucking nuts and relatively unknown because of how few works survive; if he had had some hustle he would have been rolling in money.

>> No.3861497

You draw with hand and brain.

>> No.3863365

>>3861047
Lol, nice meme. There are people who can literally progress without ever reading a fundies book and just doing fanarts consistently. They understand it on a subconscious level, whether it be lighting, form, or perspective.

Don't be so naive as to think it comes to everyone this easily. Call it talent, or just luck during the learning process, some people will just not have a smooth learning process even if they try their best.
Some people quit, some people go all in on grinding endlessly on feats that others find trivial. You know what I am talking about. For sure you've seen those artists on the internet, with huge galleries that look like pure shit. Thousands of hours of work and not even normies find their style appealing.

>> No.3863417

>>3863365
>Thousands of hours of work and not even normies find their style appealing.
Yeah that's me.

>> No.3863452

>>3863365
>Lol, nice meme. There are people who can literally progress without ever reading a fundies book and just doing fanarts consistently. They understand it on a subconscious level, whether it be lighting, form, or perspective.
Who the fuck told you that? Go find any good professional artist and they'll tell you how they spent years in art schools studying those fundies when they were kids.

>> No.3863534

>>3861071
>It was over from the start, anon.
there are plenty of happy normie artists that have not time to study because they are doing happy normie shit like '''partying''' and ''traveling''

>> No.3863535

>>3863452
i guess you could learn rendering from observation. light comes from this side and creates a shadow on the other.
but it's way slower to figure out everything on your own so why bother if we have solid fundies to grind

>> No.3863537

>>3863452
>Go find any good professional artist and they'll tell you
Not that anon but
>>3861253
>saying "I have become so good at drawing because I am talented" comes out as incredibly arrogant, so talented people are forced to say it's all hard work. And yeah sure there's a lot of hard work but it's pretty clear that there's a difference between people going pro in 2 years while I spent 8 and I'm still not there.

>> No.3863578

>>3861253
>difference between people going pro in 2 years while I spent 8 and I'm still not there.
what's your training regiment like?
how many hours do you put in a day
what do you do in a given day of study.

>> No.3863580

>>3863578
I do a lot of work and anything I say won't matter because you will answer "you're doing something wrong etc."

Consider the following: there are many professional mangaka who died of overwork, who literally died because they worked too much, whose art quality wasn't even a tenth of Murata or Inoue. Are you going to say that these seasoned professionals who died of overwork actually worked too little, or didn't know their craft?

>> No.3863581

>everyone does fundies
You people can't be more sheltered, literally can't think or imagine reality outside of Loomis memery

>> No.3863583

>>3863581
This. I never even heard of any of this before I came on this board. Everyone I know who was in arts was essentially saying "just be yourself". (Most were shit artists tho.)

>> No.3863584

doing a lot does not mean you're learning a lot. conscious / active problem solving is the key part. not so much how many hours you put in.

>> No.3863587

>>3863580
>there are many professional mangaka
kek, okay anon

>> No.3863597

>>3863580
>Are you going to say that these seasoned professionals who died of overwork actually worked too little, or didn't know their craft?
There's a case to be made where a professional (comic/ manga/ whatever) artist once he's learned his style, stays within that genre, repeating himself. I don't know much about mangos but if you take a dobson you'll see he cranks out a bunch of comics and never learns anything new.

>> No.3863599

>>3863587
excellent counterargument, upboated XD

>>3863597
>stays within that genre, repeating himself.
Are you saying that it's a deliberate stylistic choice for these artists to be less skilled than a Murata, even when they clearly improved throughout their career but not as much?

>> No.3863604

>>3863599
I'm saying working within a limited style is not conducive to artistic growth. Stop worrying about style

>> No.3863611

They have the spark.

>> No.3863614

>>3863604
But I'm talking about quality, not style. Some of these artists clearly weren't up to other artists' skills. By just working hard and honing their craft, they didn't manage to achieve what other artists achieved. I insist on the karoshi because the fact they died of overwork is clear proof that they couldn't work any harder.

>> No.3864158

>>3863614
I don't know these artists so not sure what they did.
in comics/ animation you can have days where all you do is ink lines.
working hard is often doing what you know already (to meet a deadline).
>By just working hard and honing their craft,
I think these are two separate things

honing their craft is looking at your work, figuring out what mistakes you've made and what you want/need to study -> study those individual parts -> and then making little exercise projects for yourself to test wether or not you've learnt. Like a photographer comes home with hundreds of images, you have to figure out which ones you like, which images you didn't like and why -> so that next time you're out shooting you'll remember to level the horizon
if that makes sense.

sorry for taking in vague general terms.

>> No.3864167 [DELETED] 

>>3864158
** and if you decide, I'm not so good at anatomy,
then more anime is not the best way to learn anatomy.

>> No.3864170

>>3864167
** and to add to that.
if you for yourself decide, I'm not so good at anatomy. in that case more anime is not going to help you. it's not the quickest route to take if you want to learn anatomy

>> No.3864237

>>3864170
>>3864158
http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/11/11/if-youre-busy-youre-doing-something-wrong-the-surprisingly-relaxed-lives-of-elite-achievers/

meme article