Anti-Just Draw Thread

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Anti-Just Draw Thread Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:17:57 2019 No.3847833 [Reply] [Original]

>inb4 ngmi thread
>inb4 anti-making it thread
Shut up, 'just draw'fag.
You've wasted enough time of beginners with your garbage advice. Today we're going to inform beginners of how to study properly and not mindlessly draw, which is what the 'just draw' propoganda teachers the beginners of today.

It stops today.
Post informative images and good advice.

No 'just draw'fags, 'grind mindlessly'fags, 'pyw'fags or useless platitudes allowed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:22:50 2019 No.3847834 File: 216 KB, 584x530, 1505700723442.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I don't have anymore images.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:23:36 2019 No.3847835

>>3847833
I think people should just draw things they like while looking at other art they like and doing some analysis
if you put a bit of your brain into things you will get better, I am thankful I studied Bridgman but I think it's not even necessary to do formal study, just draw things you like and analyze things, if something doesn't satisfy you then look it up on the internet to see how people draw it

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:28:44 2019 No.3847838

>>3847833
If you want to keep with the whole actual real life good advice thing...
maybe drop the f* talk, you can't pretend to think you're gonna become a professional by being an asshat, even if it's the format of this coven of virgin sadsacks that /ic is...

And I think a lot of the bad advice and circlejerk in here is mainly caused by that idiotic mentality that promotes even more stupidity, and then we're stuck /pol and /b idiots who don't even post their own work...

so there.
cheers

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:28:56 2019 No.3847839

>>3847835
I agree with that. Problem is a beginner probably doesn't really know what an analysis is or how you're supposed to. It could just as well mean 'look' to someone who doesn't understand the context.
If you spend most of your life never looking at things analytically that at least have to do with self-reflection and understanding/learning from flaws, you can expect a 18 year old beginner to conjure this understanding of analysis from thin air when he never had to think like that before. Especially given the current state of America's education system. Assuming the person is from America.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:32:22 2019 No.3847845

>>3847833
I believed in the "grind a thousand boxes to level up" meme for about 2 days. Then I realized it was boring as fuck and that constructing with said boxes is just one way of many to learn how to draw. In the /beg/ thread itself you have begs at around the same level, some of them doing line art, some others just going Kim Jong Un putting their raw imagination on paper without construction, and finally some other begs DID practice boxes and try to construct mannequins with them... guess what, all of them equally suck I mean they're all equally good. Going the DrawABox way is just a path that might have been the best one for some anons if they truly couldn't do it any other way but grinding certainly doesn't put them above the rest.

I just found it appropiate to share that observation, it's been bugging me for a while but I won't shit on their poor souls in their thread because I myself know how painful it is to grind boxes only for some random to tell you it wasn't worth it.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:35:35 2019 No.3847848

>>3847833
It's common sense that there are things beyond "just draw" that must be studied and practiced to improve. Main thing being analysis. If a person is too dumb that they lack that common sense, why should I exert the effort? "just draw" is a vile, but suitable advice to a person who can't even figure that out. Let them waste their years struggling, but not growing. They deserve that experience because they won't use their heads.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:35:38 2019 No.3847849

>>3847838
f* as in fag? I mean I only reserve that kind of talk for 4chan. Same with nigger even though I'm African American. I think it's completely irrelevant to my work life since I'm a completely different person and this is an anonymous board.
I mean I'm gay but I was being obnoxious on purpose to draw the same type of gullible people who say the stuff the thread is aimed at. Though I guess that's me appealing to 'i was pretending to be retarded'.

Anyway, I wasn't really trying to offend anyone and that word is purged from my vocabulary completely outside of this place. My bad. Don't want to give off bad vibes.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:37:37 2019 No.3847854
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>>3847848
Ok. Your comment is completely pointless and does nothing to further anything in this conversation. Especially considering that the point is to inform the beginners of this.

Ok you're smart. No one cares.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:37:45 2019 No.3847855

>>3847833
totally pointless thread op good job
there are no shortcuts you beg,no method is the best method you need to try everything.do things wrong and then understand why it was wrong.even if you waste 1 year for every common error out there you still improve
>i grinded boxes and lines for 1 year and i feel i made 0 progress
now you have a better understanding how to place things in 3d
>but man i have no clue how to do draw still
ok lets try another thing
>i traced X for 1 year and i feel like i made 0 progress
you now have a better understanding how line are placed and if you used a little of your brain maybe even catch a little of lineweight experience.
>but man i have no clue how to do draw still
ok lets try another thing
and so on.want to get into the fastest route possible and avoid all mistakes?get a pro to teach you and only you for atleast 1 year otherwise shut up and draw

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:39:31 2019 No.3847857 >>3847855 I didn't say there is a shortcut you strawman using muppet. Thanks for letting me know that conversing with you is completely pointless, since you're one-track-minded. Out, 'just draw' dumbass.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:40:05 2019 No.3847859

>>3847833

>just learn english by speaking english
>just drive, just sit in a car and drive to learn to drive it
>just "dance" before the mirror to learn how to dance
>just learn math by scribbling in your notebook
>just come to the gym and startligting weights and working with machines, just do it loool, what can go wrong
>just draw to learn how to draw
>what is transfer of knowledge
>what does standing on shoulders of gainst mean
>how does humans dominated entire planet despite not having speed, strenght, or dealy weapons attached to our body

You justdraw fags will pay bigly for your ignorance. All of us will, we all ignorant to begin with. But you will pay dearly for your utter stupidity

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:42:28 2019 No.3847862 The only sure way to learn to draw is academic: you draw from casts, then life, actual masters show you where you fucked up, etc. Everything else is hit or miss.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:44:10 2019 No.3847863 >>3847859 Thank you, anon. You wrapped up the problem in a neat bow. I like this approach to how stupid it is and I might use it in the future.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:50:40 2019 No.3847865 just draw

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:50:50 2019 No.3847866 >>3847857 but you are searching for shortcuts OP thats why you follow tips from people on /ic/ without any proof that they work.errors and missteps are part of the process but i know you are just starving for (you)s here have another (you).

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:52:19 2019 No.3847867 >>3847854 i'm not saying I'm smart, you dumbass. I'm saying it's common sense. Do you know how to read or is that also too much for you?

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:52:31 2019 No.3847868

>>3847848
>won't use their heads
They come used their heads by coming here for advice.
>you're a beginner and you've never had to think in a way that you do in art before, so just figure it out yourself, even when your only frame of reference is your experience that currently tells you nothing about what's required to learn how to properly do art
No wonder no one here can draw. You retards actually believe in 'just draw' LMAO

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:55:09 2019 No.3847869

>>3847868
and here's another one who is insect-brained. There are so many resources scattered throughout this board, if you can't read even a single one of them and deduce which steps you should take, you're NGMI in the first place. A half-assed "just draw" reply suits you just fine.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:56:23 2019 No.3847872
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>>3847866
>searching for shortcuts when I've already made it as an animator
Try again.

>>3847867
Ok..? If you're just going to say pointless things that add nothing why don't you just leave? You get that the point is to inform beginners of these, things, correct? Do you want an asspat for stating this or something? Stop shitting up my thread.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:58:07 2019 No.3847875

Another point that very few people mention is learning how to keep enjoying drawing.
I really gave up on the step by step approach and focused on more longterm projects (comics) and I'm having a blast! My skills aren't super high but I stare at my shortcomings everyday and supplement with short form studies... way better for me at least...

Also for those touting atelier techniques, all they teach you is sight size and painting techniques so unless you wanna draw floating heads and still lifes for the rest of your art career it's pretty much pointless and very limited in its breadth...

just my 2 cents folks bye!

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 06:59:04 2019 No.3847876

>>3847869
What? I'm just here to help beginners, retard. This thread isn't for me. I'm trying to lead people down the correct path unlike you.
Guaranteed you feel for the just draw meme and are mad at /ic/ so you do it to others. Don't be mad that you're garbage. Just get better.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:01:12 2019 No.3847877

So you're not just begs, you're also retarded. Nice. Do you know why people tell you "just draw"? Because you come with the dumbest shit to this board. Looking for shortcuts, asking for irrelevant information, asking "how do I learn to x as a beg", which 100 books you need to read, and so on.
You fags don't understand it. Just fucking draw. Don't spin around the actual drawing part.
Don't bother with bullshit.
Noone is recommending you to mindlessly doodle, but people seem to make it a sport to do anything but actually draw to get better.
So this is the best advice many here can receive:
J U S T D R A W

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:01:19 2019 No.3847878 >>3847833 Just draw.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:02:37 2019 No.3847881 >>3847872 >>3847876 just draw, you fagoots. Literally all you need to do.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:04:00 2019 No.3847883 >>3847876 I never fell for the "just draw" meme. Neither for that stupid "draw 100 circles a day" that's been going on.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:06:49 2019 No.3847885
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>>3847877
>Noone is recommending you to mindlessly doodle
This is what just draw means to beginners. How hard is that to understand, especially since THEY'RE BEGINNERS. I can't imagine being so detached and unable to remove yourself from your self-centered thinking to understand this. Just because you understand this information doesn't mean those that were never introduced will.
>>3847878
>>3847881
I'm doing that right now, but only because I KNOW enough about how to properly draw to just draw. Informing those you're giving advice to of this is the prerequisite for telling them to just draw. Otherwise it's useless. Though you're all dishonest fucks so I'm going to ignore bad faith actors.

It says in my OP 'no just draw' muppets allowed. Out. Now.

>>3847883
Congrats.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:11:24 2019 No.3847888

>>3847833
jesus christ you fags are as dumb as everyone who reads loomis, treat it as a blueprint for every drawng, and then complain that everything they draw looks like loomis.
just draw means that if want to be good at something, you start by doing it every day and build that habit into your life until it becomes completely automatic. you don't just flail your arms around on the canvas and expect to get better. you sit down and work away at your weaknesses whether that means studying or doing original designs. it's really not that hard to get better at drawing, but it takes drive, dedication and discipline; none of which you seem to posses.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:11:24 2019 No.3847889 >>3847885 bitch retard, even when I was a shota BEGINNER years ago, I knew there was more than just "just draw". Quit excusing retards flooding the board with inane questions. What?The sticky don't mean shit now?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:12:25 2019 No.3847890 >>3847889 Congratulations. Irrelevant to the thread. Cya.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:14:29 2019 No.3847894 File: 172 KB, 1200x1200, michelangelo-9407628-1-402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3847889 >tfw no qt shota apprentice to JUST DRAW with me

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:17:45 2019 No.3847898

I thought the just draw advice meant that you should study and draw the stuff that you like and enjoy. I mean just studying can get really tiresome and can destroy your enjoyment for drawing. Just because something is your passion doesn't mean you've to enjoy everything of said passion this is why most stuff nowadays have specialization. (And you also have to learn the fundamentals for any job before choosing your specialization)
>>3847845
>Going the DrawABox way is just a path that might have been the best one for some anons if they truly couldn't do it any other way but grinding certainly doesn't put them above the rest.
To be fair uncomfortable says that you aren't supposed to grind the drawabox exercises and you should to your best and move on to the next exercise if you're done with the demanded amount. Ofc you can try the exercises again later on, when you think that you can do them better. Said that I think you're right.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:18:07 2019 No.3847899 >>3847833 >screw putting in time and effort! I want to be good now! Not how it works, buddy. Sorry.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:18:24 2019 No.3847900 File: 69 KB, 1895x628, 9502690.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3847833

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:21:32 2019 No.3847903
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>>3847889
>PLEASE GIVE ME ATTENTION, I WAS ABLE TO DO IT SO THAT DEFEATS THE POINT OF UR THREAD
Well, no, it doesn't. Because the point is to let others avoid this problem, not let some self-important loser circlejerk about how he did it. No one is sitting around wondering your process of learning. We don't care. We're here to help those that don't understand.

I don't know why you're telling your life story when no one asked, but alright. Please take it to facebook.
>>3847899
Keep kneejerking with those strawmen that are irrelevant to the entire point, dumbass.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:25:22 2019 No.3847906

>>3847833

If you bang your head against a wall will it improve your wall banging skills?

NO you fucking idiot, you're going to die from brain damage.

Doing something over and over without putting thought into it is not productive.

USE YOUR BRAIN WHILE DOING SHIT THAT'S HOW YOU GET BETTER AT DOING SHIT

"Just draw" = be a retard over and over.

Improving = use your brain before putting pen to paper.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:29:13 2019 No.3847910 >>3847833 I don't see why anyone would disagree with this. Actively studying is objectively better than 'just drawing'.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:30:08 2019 No.3847912 Just make art

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:33:23 2019 No.3847917

Yeah sure, just keep feeding the retards who are already 18 yo and above and still won't think for themselves nor do their own research. And you faggots better not stop. Let's see how long your patience is when we get new NGMI retards by the batch every day. Preach what you say, yeah? You better not tire of it. Now don't you have a job to do in the /beg/ thread?

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:37:35 2019 No.3847921
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>>3847906
Thank you. As someone I know said, it just gives more room for the uninformed to continue their bad habits and strengthen them.
Now obviously you're supposed to use your head, but even if someone doesn't use their head there's no harm in informing them. Too many losers in this thread trying to excuse it by saying they deserve it for not thinking. But I don't remember asking for what someone thinks about those who don't get it, but what can you expect from such self-centered people.

The thread is about helping people realize this so people using the argument 'they deserve it for not thinking' is extremely pointless. All I can say to them is 'thanks for the blogpost'. i.e. >>3847889

>>3847910
Just people kneejerking for their precious advice being criticized. They don't consider any points, they just see that I'm criticizing it and immediately assume I'm some beginner because their beliefs are so skewed that they can't take a step back and see that I'm not criticizing just draw itself, just the way that it's presented to beginners and how it can affect them negatively and that the information necessary for the advice to work is not something a lot of beginners have.

>>3847912
Can do, anon.

>>3847917
You're saying this like I'm supposed to feel guilty for helping people. I give no shits about someone 'not thinking for themselves' because I'm not a loser who gets off on how smart they are. Imagine getting angry that I'm trying to inform beginners of the process of learning properly. How fragile are you? Grow up.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:37:36 2019 No.3847922

>>3847885
>>3847903
I now realize that this is the same guy who made a thread claiming to have studied fundementals for 2 years only to discover he still can't draw anime (or fundies).
Knowing that answers any question I had and renders any comment useless. Good luck answering anyone aggressively who doesn't spoonfeed you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:38:09 2019 No.3847923 >>3847917 Best post in this thread. Clearly a veteran who used to be like OP and it didn’t work out and now he’s old and tired of all that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:38:39 2019 No.3847925 >>3847922 I was actually pretending to be retarded there. I honestly just wanted to talk shit on just draw. Bye, anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:40:32 2019 No.3847926 >>3847923 Deepest lore

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:47:12 2019 No.3847929
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>>3847922
>>3847925
Well it was more of a bait thread because I was bored. Not because I was 'pretending to be retarded.' That was just to pry and see how stubborn people would be even if I explained every reason for my incompetence. I learned that 'just draw' spouters are non-determinist NPCs. They think information comes from thin air and refuse to acknowledge the ridiculousness of that assumption.

Doesn't matter if someone doesn't learn it themselves. It's ok to teach people and there are things people can't/don't know. It's just that this place is full of garbage humans that they are so willing to blame them and not themselves for their near meaningless advice. But as I go on I'm realizing that all of these people are just acting in bad faith and that I'm wasting my time trying to get through to them.

And yet I still reply seriously to them. Truthfully, I never tried to draw anime, only did my fundamentals and doodles with it. But I brought it up as a topic because I recently started to study it and I realized it was hard, so I made up a story with it.
Sorry for mislead you, anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 07:48:35 2019 No.3847930 >>3847929 Sorry to mislead. I keep making typos because I change the phrasing of my sentences frequently and forget to fix the rest.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:03:04 2019 No.3847937

I've been drawing for many years now and I'm not very good but I have found a way to be happy
>learn the basics of drawing like volumes, light, etc. so that you can put your thoughts on paper sufficiently well, you only need sufficiency
>look at art you like and try to find what is it that makes you like it and imitate that art
>improve your technique hand in hand with your imitating art you like in order to achieve what you need to achieve to express yourself
>at some point you will be OK with your technique and that part of self improvement will be smooth sailing / less agonizing and more deliberate, like "oh I need to draw this thing, lemme study it for a second"
>all your remaining efforts should be dedicated to expressing yourself and drawing things you like and imitating art you like
>if drawing stops being fun for some reason then you haven't found something that you really like drawing, so focus on that before everything else
maybe you won't be as good as someone who grinds the masters or something but you will be happy, if you are unhappy I think it's good to do this. if you are unhappy when you make art you should fix it, there is no way you should be unhappy when doing art

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:11:48 2019 No.3847940

>>3847929
Looking at that word soup and the epik reaction image it seems to me like you're one of the backround noise people who keep making inflammatory, revolutionary and self-justified shit threads only to end up acting all coy when people call them retarded. Calling people NPCs is unsuitable for you.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:15:41 2019 No.3847943

>>3847940
No, I was just stating what happened. I don't deny that I'm retarded, but if your brain can't fathom someone not thinking highly of themselves that's not my problem.
No surprise as you're someone who jerks themselves off about 'knowing' without being told, as if I give a shit. I'm trying to help people, not hear you rattle on about how you did it. Not everything is about you.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:17:49 2019 No.3847946

>>3847940
>>3847943
Oh and don't worry, I'm not acting 'coy' because you confronted me. I'm doing so because I'm not someone who insults someone without being insulted first. Though if you think this is a problem that says a lot about you as a person. Figures.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:27:44 2019 No.3847958

>i trick and deceive people on 4chan to extrapolate the truth(ON 4chan) and/or confirm my own bias meanwhile making the board even shittier
lmao you are beyond salvation bro,you cant help people that don't actively use their brain when learning.sure you can help them avoid few errors here and there but sooner or later they will be stuck and probably be there for a while.thats how it works.ironically even this type of advice is only half correct because using your brain means jack shit.want to make a thread on how to use your brain too?i am sure that would be useful!

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:32:06 2019 No.3847960 >>3847833 >wants to be spoonfed I'm not gonna hold your hand you big baby. Use your head

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:34:39 2019 No.3847966

>>3847958
That's fine if it doesn't help everyone. There are people who have the capacity to """use their brain""" but haven't put it together yet. I've helped and taught quite a few of them on my animation server. But do go on about how your biases against people who don't happen to have all of the knowledge not using it correctly.

As long as someone is willing to learn, even if they don't figure it out by themselves, the chance is there and I've seen it many times. People who have stagnated for years, not realizing it. When I explain to them how to properly study they improve. You can not know something without automatically being thrown in this group.
7 years ago I remained a beginner at animation for 3 years straight. Someone swooped in and explained to me in a way that I understood. From then on in those 4 years I've learned enough about drawing and animation to freelance for big companies. But please go on, mr.knowitall

>>3847960
I'm looking to spoonfeed beginners, not to be spoonfed. Imagine being so fragile that spoonfeeding is apart of your vocabulary. Can't even handle someone helping those that want help. Piss off.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:39:37 2019 No.3847972 >>3847966 >i am a pro but i post no useful tips whatsoever >freelance for big companies. true story.jpg

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:42:04 2019 No.3847975

>>3847958
>>3847966
Also, I have a friend who is currently working hard and recovering from the advice 'just draw'. He's completely willing to learn. Yet he didn't ""figure it out"" and he's made more progress in half a month of drawing with an understanding of learning than in his entire 2 years.
Like legitimate /beg/ for 2 years straight to decent with a little kick.

Though I bet even when I have that example you'll segway into an entirely different argument like you did last time with 'u dont deserve to be taught.'
My answer to that is, ok, then don't teach them and let others teach them freely without whining like a little bitch because you're so bad that you're afraid of beginners becoming better.

>>3847972
No one asked for useful tips. We're literally just arguing currently. And no, I won't give tips to you on the spot because you're not going to reply in good faith. If you want to see me discussing this and explaining why I think the way I do, scroll up. It isn't that hard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:45:24 2019 No.3847978 >>3847975 half a year of drawing* Fuck, I can't type.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:52:50 2019 No.3847983

>>3847975
>No one asked for useful tips
>>3847833
>Post informative images and good advice.
you should lead by example thats why this thread is so shit,you already done so in your animation server so it shouldnt be that hard.show us the true ways of drawing op,your precious knowledge will be very useful for me and tons of other people on the internet!

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:54:46 2019 No.3847984 >>3847983 Nope, I explained in conversations earlier. If you're too lazy to read them instead of kneejerking to the OP then that's not my problem.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:55:12 2019 No.3847985 >>3847833 >images Lol, fuck off to your facebook/vk groups. Just draw already

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 08:57:13 2019 No.3847986 could have drawn instead of making a garbage thread op

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:00:27 2019 No.3847990 >>3847986 I've been drawing throughout while waiting for responses. The fact that you don't consider this shows how much you browse /ic/ mindlessly.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:02:02 2019 No.3847991

>>3847984
you didnt explain shit op and if you think you are you are delusional.you just went full ad-hominem on everybody that disagrees with you with "muh just draw is evil".you see this little game of yours thinking you are on top with this low level trolling is patethic.i am enjoying all the yous are giving me,this time like the last 5-6 threads you made in last few months.pls continue so i can enjoy easy yous

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:04:09 2019 No.3847993 >>3847991 I made two threads, nigga. Calm down.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:06:30 2019 No.3847996

>>3847943
Fuck off with the fake humility, retard.

>I'm doing so because I'm not someone who insults someone without being insulted first.
What?

>I'm trying to help people
Really doesn't seem like it. If you weren't mentally retarded (in which case you can't help people) or simply a dumb newfag (kill yourself) you would have realized that the term "just draw" holds different meanings to different people. For some people it means mindless grind without any particular self critique, and to others it means to leave your hesitation behind and start practising so that you have an actual context for your fundamentals studies. You can't just give it an extreme definition like you did in the OP and expect it to be a helpful and constructive thread. Your repeated mentions of "good faith" are absolutely hilarious.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:18:33 2019 No.3848007

>>3847996
>Fuck off with the fake humility, retard.
It's not fake. I'd shit on you easily. Just give me a reason first.
>What?
It means I'm not going to be hostile for no reason because I'm not a child.
>you would have realized that the term "just draw" holds different meanings to different people
I've made this point several different times, dumbass. This is my entire argument, which is why I specified beginners, because it likely means that to someone inexperienced.
>to others it means to leave your hesitation behind and start practising so that you have an actual context for your fundamentals studies.
Exactly, which I specified last time, and I even acknowledged it, claiming that it can be helpful in that way. You're regurgitating what I've said and you've proven to me that you're just arguing against some bias you hold in your head and not me.

>You can't just give it an extreme definition like you did in the OP
Yes, this is why I mentioned the word 'beginners' and later in the thread explained my point, futher solidifying that I was talking directly about it as advice for beginners.
>>3847839
>>3847876
>>3847903
>>3847921
The one below is not me but it simplifies my point
>>3847859

What you're saying is basically that you've misunderstood despite me explaining in several conversations that we've had this exact thing. Not once have I not clarified I'm talking about beginners looking to learn and study. You've come to a conclusion before I even say anything so no matter what, even if I agree with you and explain that I'm referring to just draw as advice when beginners ask how to study properly you'll continue to make up arguments I didn't make or whine about how they don't deserve to be taught when you're the one spazzing out about my decision to help out.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:21:37 2019 No.3848010

>>3847993
we already seen this behavior op.soon you will start samefagging and bumping your shit thread for days to get attention and hoping someone will fall for your shit bait also nice arguments bro i am always amazed how dishonest you are.i like i lot the recurrent "i already discussed this above read the whole thread i am not spoonfeeding you retard" shtick.
sometimes i think this kind of threads are made by people living a miserable life and this is their last bastion to get a little attention and company but then i realized that cant be. people that really have problems dont go on 4chan and make shit threads they have real problems to tackle so probably they are just a dudebros showing their friends how cool and hip shitposting on 4chan really is.if thats the case say hi to your friends for me they are cool and hip as yourself!

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:21:40 2019 No.3848011

>>3847996
>quote anon
Seen your posts all over ic the last couple days. Stop quoting and responding to specific points, it’s autistic as fuck, makes your posts tedious to read (so they are skipped over), and not respectful to the person you are responding to. Act like a human and take the original persons response, form it into a thesis in your own mind, then respond to that. No one buys your point by point nit picking.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:23:06 2019 No.3848013 >>3848007 >>3848011

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:26:53 2019 No.3848017

>>3848010
Why would I spoonfeed someone arguing not to spoonfeed?

>>3848011
>Stop quoting and responding to specific points, it’s autistic as fuck
Is this a joke?
>makes your posts tedious to read (so they are skipped over)
Congrats? You don't have to read them, anon.
>and not respectful to the person you are responding to
What the hell are you talking about? I'm formatting it to let them know what I'm responding to and so that I can keep track.
>No one buys your point by point nit picking.
LOL responding point by point for clarity is nitpicking. It's just me doing it for clarity sake. You're batshit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:29:56 2019 No.3848019 >>3848017 >>3848011

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:35:56 2019 No.3848021

>>3848011
>form it into a thesis in your own mind
This leads to bias and explains why, despite me saying the opposite, people believe I think things I don't. They reply to what their brain thinks I think and they fill in gaps with biased bullshit. Is this why no one listens to anything anyone says here? Because they don't go point by point, which is a proven method of understanding?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:39:15 2019 No.3848026 >>3847833 Based Rachel poster.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:40:46 2019 No.3848029

>>3848007
>It's not fake.
Yeah, it is.

>It means I'm not going to be hostile for no reason because I'm not a child.
>I'm not someone who insults someone without being insulted first.
...
>which is what the 'just draw' propoganda teachers the beginners of today.
Again, what? The contradiction can be found in the OP. That's why your "good faith" and fake humility is so funny.

>I've made this point several different times, dumbass.
Apparently you didn't properly consider the implications of the point before making the thread. See above.

I'm actually interested in a thread that deals with "just draw" in a civilized manner but that kind of thread is probably not going to come from you, so I wish you all luck in the continued work on your resident /ic/ nutcase persona.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:42:04 2019 No.3848030

>>3848021
BS, that’s just called being an idiot.
Notice in your response here that you dropped information and cherry picked quotes to suite your narrative >>3848017. By summarising shit in this cherry picked point by point fashion you construct a strawman then argue against that. Anyone I see doing this or using their language in this way is immediately glass ceilinged and dropped from communication. It’s ungenuine and for your own sake you should stop doing it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:44:29 2019 No.3848033 >>3848011 Just thought I'd tell you: I'm the guy you quoted there and I haven't replied to you. You're arguing with someone else.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:45:20 2019 No.3848034 >>3848033 Yeah I got the guy wrong and corrected in the following post

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:46:37 2019 No.3848035

>>3848029
>Yeah, it is.
What the fuck is wrong with you? You're crazy. It's not that deep. There's no need for me to fake this on anonymous site. No one's out to get you.

>Again, what? The contradiction can be found in the OP. That's why your "good faith" and fake humility is so funny.
Huh??

>I'm actually interested in a thread that deals with "just draw" in a civilized manner but that kind of thread is probably not going to come from you, so I wish you all luck in the continued work on your resident /ic/ nutcase persona.
Yet you respond like a cunt. I can have a civilized discussion if you want. I don't mind. The OP wasn't really that serious.

>>3848030
You're overthinking it. You might be a bit autistic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:47:46 2019 No.3848038 >>3848035 Suit yourself

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:47:46 2019 No.3848039 >>3848035 >I don't mind. The OP wasn't really that serious. Essence of this thread lol. Kill yourself

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 09:51:41 2019 No.3848043

>>3848038
That was unnecessary, sorry. Do you have any proof that this is any different than just trying to remember what they said annd increasing the probability of being wrong? I think you're just overthinking it, but if you have anything reliable to point to I wouldn't mind stopping. Otherwise it just seems baseless.

>>3848039
You're actually crazy, dude. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:05:11 2019 No.3848058

>>3847835
Agreed.I felt the idea of formal studies helped "open my eyes" in order to progress the subject a lot better, even when it involved animu stuff.

On that note, I feel attempting some sort of fanart is ideal since it'll help you put your studies to the test on drawings you personally enjoy. Even Kim Jong Un mentioned he'd try to draw from artists he enjoyed as a kid. So these really, it really does come down too simply drawing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:11:09 2019 No.3848066 >>3847833 >it ends here! today we are going to give proper information to beginners!!! >doesn't give any information kek

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:17:06 2019 No.3848069

>>3848066
Others have. They've said a lot of what needs to be said. Of course there is more but that comes only when questions are asked so that I can explain further since it's not as simple as telling someone to study better. Otherwise I have nothing to prove.

Don't force it.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:27:35 2019 No.3848073
File: 100 KB, 560x420, G&J.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I feel like people are forgetting that people started saying "Just Draw" after this video dropped. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLqWX7onVmU

The whole point of the video is to start studying now and not getting bogged down by preliminary research and resource hoarding. "Just draw" doesn't mean "lol just keep doing whatever from imagination and don't worry about improving" it means "start studying/doing studies and stop stressing that the thing you're studying may not be optimal." Just Draw.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:39:51 2019 No.3848085 >>3847833 This could be the stupidest thread I have ever seen on /ic/ congrats OP.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:41:16 2019 No.3848088 >>3847833 So in other words "just don't art and remain a lazy fuck?" Gotcha.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:42:01 2019 No.3848089 >>3848073 >"Just draw" doesn't mean "lol just keep doing whatever from imagination amen anon

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 10:52:07 2019 No.3848099

In case anyone is interested this thread was started by a really salty anon who posted their work a couple days back and showed absolutely no improvement in 8 months. The way the posts are written I can tell. This guy is just another crab trying to bring you down. Don't listen to this morons lies and go draw. It's the best advice you will ever get in your artistic career.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 11:02:45 2019 No.3848106 >>3847833 Were you the guy who made threads asking about making web comics a few months back?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 11:57:03 2019 No.3848143 File: 18 KB, 240x219, 7171690966_10afe236cf_m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] When you thought you were gonna get advice on how to use your autistic brain properly to study but instead everyone is just having shitty arguments yet again.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 12:17:20 2019 No.3848166

>>3848143
Why don't you create a thread if you have a specific question? There's not much use in expecting somebody to post an art routine that is perfectly tailored to your needs. It won't happen. Proper study is just drawing (tm) and then asking the community, reading fundamental literature, doing fundamental exercises, watching video tutorials, doing copies of life, diagrams and your favorite artists etc

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 12:20:21 2019 No.3848173 >>3848073 Fucking this. Anyone who interpretted "just draw" to mean >lol just keep doing whatever from imagination and don't worry about improving is too braindead to improve anyway.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 15:21:12 2019 No.3848382
File: 387 KB, 680x708, 1524892913049.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3847833
i literally cant visualize anything in my head as long as im conscious
i didnt fall for the loomis meme and i just draw everything with heavy references, copying it, then just redoing it again with muscle memory with only pure contour lineart
that's how i plan to draw, just muscle memory everything for years until i can pretend that i know how to draw

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 15:44:02 2019 No.3848405 >99% of this board draws maybe 2 hours a day max >OP makes a thread feeling oppressed that he needs to draw more draw more and be a functioning adult with critical thinking skills OP. The sticky helps you with the ability to improve

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:01:18 2019 No.3848422 >>3848143 Other people don't have your brain. There's no one comment that will make things click. Start drawing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:09:58 2019 No.3848430 drawing man bad

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:12:02 2019 No.3848435 >>3848405 >99% of this board draws maybe 2 hours a day max You are way overestimating the drawing being done. 2 hours a week is probably closer to the truth.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:28:47 2019 No.3848465

>>3847859
>just learn english by speaking english
>just drive, just sit in a car and drive to learn to drive it
>just "dance" before the mirror to learn how to dance
>just learn math by scribbling in your notebook
>just come to the gym and startligting weights and working with machines, just do it loool, what can go wrong
Yeah, thats literally how you learn to do all of those things. Guidance at the beginning is necessary but nobody has learned a language without speaking it. Nobody learned to drive by reading about steering wheels. Nobody got ripped designing the perfect workout routine.
Both extremes here are equally retarded. There's no point of study if you are not applying it. If you're shutting off your brain every time you draw dont expect to get good. The best thing to do is read loomis, and then "just draw". Use your fucking head. Excessive amounts of theory without practice makes you just as dumb as all the hippies in art school. Drawing intrinsically involves analyzing. You dont need a book, just use your eyes and your brain.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:37:55 2019 No.3848472 >>3848382 >then just redoing it again with muscle memory with only pure contour lineart you absolute moron that's the fucking worst way to draw learn construction if you want to draw from imagination

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:51:58 2019 No.3848492

>>3848382
That's the stupidest possible way to do things, what are you even thinking? If you can into construction drawing you can learn to literally draw anything from any angle without needing to blindly copy references. Loomis isn't even the only construction drawing instructor, there's Bridgman, Vilppu, Burne Hogarth, and those are just the ones that I can remember off the top of my head. It's all the same basic concept, they just go about it in slightly different ways. Loomis and Vilppu's Drawing Manual is probably the most /beg/ friendly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 16:53:21 2019 No.3848494 >>3848472 >>3848492 How wrong are these two?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:07:42 2019 No.3848513 >>3848494 Completely right. Memeposters are extra retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:12:32 2019 No.3848516 Y'all make this too difficult just pick up a pencil and draw some shit. It's not that hard.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:16:23 2019 No.3848521

>>3847833
You won't believe me but that's my screenshot I saved from another /jp/ spinoff chan. I can't believe people saved MY image and are posting it years later. I'm also the creator of Aguri guide, which also gets passed around this board like gospel.

Maybe I really do have the talent to teach people.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:17:44 2019 No.3848523 >>3848521 Also if you don't believe with the aguri guide you can search for the PDF on goodreads. It dates as far back as 2015 or 2014 i forget.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:19:39 2019 No.3848526 >>3848521 >creator of Aguri guide Prove it. Post your work.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:21:06 2019 No.3848528

>>3848073
OK, but can you please listen to anything that I've repeated in this thread for the millionth time? I don't get it. It's like no one here retains information. God fuck.

First of all. This video is irrelevant to ANYTHING that is in this thread, considering that my ENTIRE point is that just draw is GIVEN WITHOUT CONTEXT. It's an argument I've made EVERY TIME some one tries to pull this bullshit.
I'm trying to explain to people that this context needs to be brought in every time you use this otherwise useless advice. It's like no one listens to reason here and they use these explanations that have nothing to do with anything since the advice just draw isn't supplemented with this video to help people understand this. It's given and then people act like someone new is supposed to understand the context that they didn't give. Like ok? You gave this person advice with context that's only known to people who already know about this. The entire criticism I have against this advice is that people don't add this context. 'Just draw' to a beginner doesn't mean this video because they've never fucking seen this video so I don't understand what your point is?
>>3848106
Nah
>>3848382
What? You're not supposed to be able to visualize if you've never practiced visualizing. Practice it more. I wasn't able to visualize at all. I learned construction and when I understood how to draw a box in perspective I got used to it to the point where I could easily do it.
With this said, learn contour lines, construction, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GWzvpbRnAQ
Practice these techniques as you learn perspective. They've helped me a lot. But don't expect to understand it in a day. These are extremely complicated ways of thinking, especially for a beginner who can't think in 3D

>>3848494
They're not wrong, what they're saying is completely meaningless though. They might aswell not comment at all.
>>3848521
Good, keep it up man. We need more people like you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:23:41 2019 No.3848537 >>3848521 >>3848523 >creator of the aguri guide Do you have any personal work you can post here?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:25:12 2019 No.3848539 >>3848521 Based Rachel poster.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:27:12 2019 No.3848545

>>3848173
So your excuse to giving beginners advice that is useless without this video that they couldn't have known about is that they should know about the context that only lives inside your head? My point is to PROVIDE the context because a new beginner couldn't possibly know about this.

You're saying 'xd haha yes! this! This so much!!' but you're agreeing essentially with what I've been preaching this entire time. Which is giving beginners the context of the advice. Without this video the advice is seemingly just as basic as it is. You have this extra information attached to it that's not universal and expect that because you know it that others do. The more I argue with unreasonable, illiterate retards, the more I realize people are just too fucking stupid to understand anything even if I say it directly to their faces.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:30:17 2019 No.3848548 >>3848545 Honestly just looks like you conceded that point quickly in the thread (compared to what you wrote in the OP) and now get really embarrassed when people bash you so you lash out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:31:59 2019 No.3848550 >>3848545 There's a sticky for a reason

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:36:07 2019 No.3848554

>>3848382
>>3848528
To add to my point since I ran out of text: It's not something you do from the get go. I didn't think about visualizing until I had a good grasp on what boxes looked like in perspective, how to turn spirals in space (seen in marks tutorial I posted)
You need a foundation before you begin to think in this way. It's not something that comes from thin air, man.

I've made this point several times. Even before this thread. If you consider this conceding and a polar opposite to the op even when I specific beginners are what the topic is about then I'm sorry you can't read.
>>3848550
The sticky is a resource to learn. What needs to be taught is HOW to learn without mindlessly copying. That's my entire point.

>>3848548
Ok, good to know you're so unable to argue with my point now that it's spoonfed to you, so you appeal to the fact that it's different from my OP. I don't care, that's not my problem.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:40:15 2019 No.3848561

>>3848554
Fuck I mixed up replies.

>>3848548
>I've made this point several times. Even before this thread. If you consider this conceding and a polar opposite to the op even when I specific beginners are what the topic is about then I'm sorry you can't read.*

>>3848382
Sorry, anon, this part:
>I've made this point several times. Even before this thread. If you consider this conceding and a polar opposite to the op even when I specific beginners are what the topic is about then I'm sorry you can't read.
of >>3848554
isn't meant for you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:40:39 2019 No.3848563 >>3848554 It's possible you're just a retard. There's classes for people like you, they're called classes. Everyone else learns on their own and drinks with the professor. Those old fuckers can drink.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:43:02 2019 No.3848567

>>3848563
This thread isn't for me. But continue to try to be funny so you don't have to acknowledge that the point I'm trying to make isn't as wild as your assumptions thought it would be, so you can continue to avoid the fact that my words have been falling on your deaf and unwilling ears.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:45:04 2019 No.3848573 >>3848567 What were your words, I've been drunk every time I've seen this thread and only just replied again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:45:50 2019 No.3848576 >>3848573 Go to sleep, anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:46:57 2019 No.3848579 >>3848576 I've still got hours of shitposting left in me. It's barely a quarter to 4chan standard time.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:49:59 2019 No.3848581

>>3848554
I'm not the guy you replied to.

>what I've been preaching this entire time.
You haven't. The only way to interpret the OP is that even the FZD video is propaganda.

If you ever make one of these threads again the OP should rather be making the argument that /ic/ shouldn't use the phrase "just draw" because it risks misleading beginners. What you should not have done is imply that people who say "just draw" categorically try to teach beginners to draw mindlessly. This is the huge failure of your thread and you won't admit it.

Also
>Today we're going to inform beginners
Still waiting, I'm interested in what constitutes proper study. Maybe we can get some discussion going then.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:53:29 2019 No.3848589 >>3848581 Who gives a fuck about beginners? Just focus on your self. Do you. Focusing on anonymous beginners is about the biggest waste of time you could possibly do.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:53:32 2019 No.3848590

>>3848581
So you're going to keep referencing the OP that is clearly an exagerrated and blown out of propotion thing instead of the point I'm trying to make itself. Obviously I don't believe it's propoganda, but what would you argue about if it wasn't the stupid fucking OP that talks about advice being propoganda. Pure autism.
Get over it. It was to bait just draw people here.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:57:30 2019 No.3848598

>>3848589
I give a fuck.

>>3848590
It's not something to normally worry about since we're on 4chan but it's fun to rub it in your face since you present yourself as a force of good and well meaning.

Anyway, still interested in the proper studies thing. Thread has cooled down, now is your chance to spread your gospel.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:58:19 2019 No.3848602 How hard it is to understand OP's point? Beginners are dumb and will understand "just doodle" instead of draw. The guys don't even know what construction means so there's not much thoughtful drawing going on there

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 17:59:14 2019 No.3848603 >>3848598 Why dont we just have a civil conversation though?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:07:49 2019 No.3848624 >>3848603 It starts with the peer reviewed studies.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:08:14 2019 No.3848626

>>3848603
My reason for being uncivil earlier was seeing the irritating OP post and then going into the thread to see an OP that I percieved to be a shithead.

As I said, it would be interesting to hear about the "proper studies". And I say this in good faith since I recognize that "just draw" is a problematic phrase if posted stand-alone. I think you wrote earlier in the thread that you're skilled at drawing so I'm interested.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:21:17 2019 No.3848640

This thread, that tkmiz thread and that older thread complaining about artists being elitists or something about preaching hardwork being gatekeeping all include a poster with the same recognizably bitter posting style, wouldn't be surprised if it's the same person spending more online time looking for ways to validate their own lack of desirable artwork instead of putting in work.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:26:56 2019 No.3848649

>>3848626
>My reason for being uncivil earlier was seeing the irritating OP post and then going into the thread to see an OP that I percieved to be a shithead.
No question from my end. Completely understandable.
>As I said, it would be interesting to hear about the "proper studies".
I think you're either expecting me to wow you or you're being a bit dishonest with the way you phrase it, as if you're setting me up for you to shit on.
You seem to think I think there's a secret code to getting better and I don't. 'Proper studies' to you could mean an entirely different thing to a beginner. I phrased it in that way but of course it won't make as much of an impact on you because you're familiar with it, and as many others claim in this thread, it's """common sense""", so no matter how well I phrase it it could easily be taken and spat on.

This isn't some be all end all guide to studying. There are multiple ways to study. There are proper ways to study that might seem obvious to you, but not to a beginner, which is my point. I'm giving advice based on what I see consistently in beginners trying to learn.
It's like being an experienced swimmer and going to a beginner course at your school. You'd laugh at the instructor claiming that 'this is the proper way to understand the mechanics of swimming so that you can teach yourself' beause the information he's giving is obvious to you. Though I did start it off making it seem like I know it all, so I apologize for that.

>>3848640
Nah, I was arguing for tkmiz. I hate people like that. I'm not sure what you mean.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:32:14 2019 No.3848654 >>3848649 Shitting on people for sincerely sharing learning strategies is awful, I wouldn't do that. Since you apologize, I'll apologize too and join if there's discussion later.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:44:12 2019 No.3848667

>>3848654
Appreciate it, anon. I'm happy you put everything aside considering I was acting like a complete shithead. I'd reply the same way, and all of your assumptions based on the OP make complete sense, looking at it from another lens. I probably shouldn't have started it off this way.
I had an irritating discussion with someone who just drew and grew severe anxiety through his failure. So I was a bit mad and carried over my anger to this post, which doesn't help my case at all.

I'm realizing that all of my posts start off in a condescending presumptuos manner and that is likely the reason otherwise reasonable people like you respond the way you do. I'll tone it down. The fact that you switched around that quickly made me self-reflect.
Cheers, man.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 18:56:29 2019 No.3848678

>>3848667
If you "just drew", it's not that you fucked up, it's that most problems find answers or at least starting points to real questions you can solve on your own through doing just that. It's why artists say it. They're inundated with dumb fucking questions all the time that are solved by drawing a lot and learning about about what you want to know specifically. A fuck up is just a search away.

I'm not going to lie, it's gatekeeping. Anyone who can't speak enough of the right language hasn't done the work and looked for a solution on their own. It's hard to speak retard and there's no point in playing professional interpreter when they'll just come back for more five minutes later. There's also the problem that beginners are looking for validation more than starting points to learn. It's a mire that's solved by two simple words. Most people will help you if they can, but only saints and MFAs getting paid stoop down because it's bad for the knees.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:00:47 2019 No.3848680

>>3848528
This entire argument is stupid. People most often then not say 'Just draw' to people who are either asking a blanket question like "How do i get better?" or to a person who is so new that any actual constructive or meaningful advice would be lost on them, to which in both cases they''d benefit most from actually just drawing till they get more experience, do some of their own research, and come back with new reasonable founded questions that people can actually answer. And for those who receive the 'just draw' meme when they aren't a beginner, in which case they should have the understanding to see the hidden meaning that they shouldn't worry so much about what to study but in actually doing it and if said person can't see that meaning then they're again better off just drawing till they get to a point when it no longer makes sense to do so.

It's actually quite efficient, the little bugger.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:02:32 2019 No.3848683 >Don't know math >"JUST CALCULATE" >Gets every single problem wrong and doesn't learn anything for weeks That's what happens with beginners. If they knew how to research and critically look at stuff to identify what they do wrong they wouldn't be begs.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:04:32 2019 No.3848685 >>3848683 KEK

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:04:33 2019 No.3848686 >>3848683 When the number of people who create anything is low and above lukewarm, it's not surprising it isn't taught. Not that it can be.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:10:39 2019 No.3848692

>>3848680
If you ask about any specific problem and you post failed drawings people just say "go to /beg/" and "just draw" or make clueless redlines that are even worse. This board is the blind reading the blind, I can bet my balls that the vast majority of the people who say "just draw" barely draw at all.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:20:44 2019 No.3848702

>>3848683
>Never be introduced to reading
>Place I come from teaches nothing on reading or remotely acknowledges it
>Want to read
>Ask on reading forum

>'just read, dude'

>'but I never read before and my goal is to get better at reading. ive tried before but it's like jumping into an abyss of things i dont know'
>'ur overthinkgin it dude, just read'
>1 year passes
>'ive been just reading for a year but i still dont understand how to learn these words if I dont know how to read'

>'fucking retard, you're reading wrong, here are a list of things that are common sense and anyone who doesnt know it as common sense it's conveniently just dumb. That way i dont have to acknowledge that the fact that there are people who dont know common sense completely invalidates my appeal to common sense.'

>>3848692
Exactly. But you'll get hit with either:
>they dont deserve my time to be taught
>it's common sense so it's ok to withold it even though I know people won't know
>just draw xd

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:22:22 2019 No.3848705 >>3848702 Him being able to get on a reading forum means he can read. Change that to a physical interaction instead of one that requires being able to get online.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:23:08 2019 No.3848706 File: 116 KB, 727x1039, AC437579-F6CD-4CBF-B184-3E3B11BEA342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3848058 >Kim Jong Un

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:26:47 2019 No.3848712

>>3848692
>>3848702
When beginners post their failed drawings its reasonable to tell them off to beg or just draw because again they're just asking for blanket advice and are better served in those areas till they get more experience and know what they want help with. Right this fucking instant there's a thread someone made asking for help with foreshortening and it's advice central because the person who made the thread has direction and questions he wants answered which means people know how to help so they do. Coming to me with this "no one actual helps" bullshit, maybe if you and other begs who are always looking for the secret answers took the time and put some amount of effort into your learning instead of expecting others to do it for you we wouldn't be having this argument.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:31:32 2019 No.3848719

>>3848712
I am much better than the loli guy in that thread and people told me to go to /beg/ and "just draw" because my question was technical and didn't involve anime pedoshit.
Also most people in that thread are shitposting about diddling kids, bickering with each other and saying obvious shit like "draw from life", I don't see how any of that counts as advice.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:44:03 2019 No.3848731

>>3848712
>When beginners post their failed drawings its reasonable to tell them off to beg or just draw because again they're just asking for blanket advice and are better served in those areas till they get more experience and know what they want help with.
You saying this completely proves that you missed the point I've made repeatedly in the entireity of this thread. Just draw can be used properly in these contexts. I've clarified too many times that my problem is with people using 'just draw' as advice to beginners who have already struggled and not improved

i.e. people who have stagnated for a year or two who come back and get shit on for not applying 'common sense' after they take 'just draw' advice. People just throw out platitudes and when it doesn't work out they lash out at the one who isn't aware of the for some reason hidden context behind just draw.

>Coming to me with this "no one actual helps" bullshit
Don't make an argument you saw with a single person and apply it to two people.
>maybe if you and other begs who are always looking for the secret answers took the time and put some amount of effort into your learning instead of expecting others to do it for you we wouldn't be having this argument.
I did take the time, which is why I'm trying to help others avoid wasting as much time as I did drawing mindlessly.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:44:25 2019 No.3848733

>>3848719
I haven't even read through the whole thing but i found quite a few good responses answering his question but what does it matter? Your whole rant was 'just draw' doesn't give enough good direction for people trying to learn so even if the advice in that thread was mediocre at best it still sent him in the right direction more then a supposed directionless 'just draw'. But maybe the problem is your expectations because if you're coming here for advice then you should expect to have to wade through a bunch of shit to get what you want, but in most cases you will get what you want.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:46:06 2019 No.3848738 >Child asks how you're supposed to cross the street >'just cross the street' >child dies >'dumbass, doesnt he know common sense says to look both ways before you do that?'

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:53:43 2019 No.3848750

>>3848738
>go to street with child
>'ok child, look both ways for cars then you can cross'
>child walks across

>come to /ic/
>'okay anon go read the sticky and just draw'
>goes to sticky
>finds a list of fundamental subjects to learn, find a lot of resources to look through and learn how to look at look at things objectively

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 19:58:50 2019 No.3848754

>>3848733
>But maybe the problem is your expectations because if you're coming here for advice then you should expect to have to wade through a bunch of shit to get what you want, but in most cases you will get what you want.
Not him but the entire point of the thread is that beginners aren't aware of any of this. As experienced artists/users of ic we know the context of everything given. We know what just draw means, we know what advice is bad and what advice is good, we know that you should draw both from imagination AND from reference, etc.

Beginners don't know this.

>>3848750
Here's a better analogy for you.
>New foreign person shows up to an unfamiliar town
>This foreign person has a completely different culture (Knows a lot but not about art, or in this case their culture)
>In his culture waving is a sign of acknowledgement
>In this town's culture, waving is a sign that you want to kill someone
Let's say waving is a representation for learning. They both have different meanings to each.
>Foreigner asks what parts of the culture he should know about before interacting with others
>He gets 'it's not too complicated, you're overthinking, just talk to people.'
>So he does this, assumes based on that that the cultures are probably the same and he goes on with his life
>He waves at many people during his year there
>He then wonders why he hasn't made any friends
>He mentions this to the person earlier and he laughs at him and calls him retarded
>Gets asked why he didn't research
>'I was told just to talk normally, and that's all I did'
>"Well you should have researched this thing you didn't have the context to research, dumbass."

>>finds a list of fundamental subjects to learn, find a lot of resources to look through and learn how to look at look at things objectively
Again, this is about teaching beginners how to learn. One could just as easily look at this sticky and blindly copy as he's done before, since that's all he knows.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:00:33 2019 No.3848758 >>3847833 What if I'm just a lazy motherfucker?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:00:55 2019 No.3848759 >>3848754 Good, foreigners should stay out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:01:39 2019 No.3848760 >>3848758 That's fine, as long as you admit it, mate. I see no problem with that. >>3848759 Kek

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:02:44 2019 No.3848762 >>3848754 Okay anon, what would be good ways to teach beginners how to learn? Please give me something that I can be applied to most of this board.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:03:45 2019 No.3848763 >>3848762 A GBP system for starters.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:06:54 2019 No.3848768 >>3848763 any real advice?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:07:49 2019 No.3848770 >>3848768 To leave my board. Also, that's not me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:08:33 2019 No.3848772 >>3848768 Third world English gets an autoban like back in the old days?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:11:08 2019 No.3848779 >>3848762 Joking aside, I don't know what the hell you want me to say. There isn't some universal advice to fix all beginners. It's dependant on the person and how they learn.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:14:22 2019 No.3848782 >>3848760 What if I'm just a lazy motherfucker AND I whine constantly about not being able to draw good?

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:19:04 2019 No.3848789

>>3848782
That's fine too, anon. As long as you don't attribute it to 'just draw' advice when that's not the case. I'm only doing so because I've seen the result of it from the people I've taught many many times.

I'm a determinist so if you just don't draw but are sad that you don't draw I think it's something you probably can't control and I sympathize with that. Only way that'd be a problem for me is blaming others.
If you know about the information but choose to do nothing with it, it's not as big of a deal to me as someone willing to put in hard work but being set in the wrong direction.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:31:17 2019 No.3848807

>>3848779
That perfect advice is 'just draw'. They're isn't anyway to personally tutor every single beginner even if someone was willing to. With 'just draw' the absolute beginner, like just picked up a pencil beginner, can begin to get experience and learn what it is that he dosen't like about his drawings and what needs fixed. For the beginner who just keeps wanting to ask "how do i draw good?" he keeps getting sent away to practice till he comes back with actual questions like the foreshortening thread at which point people will actual give help and send him in the right direction or until he does his own research gets better then comes back with more actual questions like the foreshortening thread at which point people will actual give help and send him in the right direction.
Ideally the solution would be a sticky that says
"/Ic Isn't a suitable substitute for your own research come back when you have a specific question you need answered."

But till something like that we have the next best thing. 'Just draw'.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:35:06 2019 No.3848812 >>3848807 Again, you're strawmanning me. I keep saying that what my post is aimed at is people looking to learn how to study, not those who hesitate or never draw. I'm talking about those who continue to struggle improving because they mindlessly draw.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:37:18 2019 No.3848817

>>3848812
>>3848807
Or learn how to approach drawing*
If just draw is all that you can muster then that says you mindlessly draw. It can easily be supplemented by at least posting context on how to approach it, which the creator of the 'just draw' video explains.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:45:04 2019 No.3848829

>>3848807
Just draw can mean mindlessly drawing to a beginner. You can inform them that mindlessly drawing is something they don't want to do.

For example, one solution to many beginner problems is explaining how to properly reference and learn from reference by having them look at the reference and replicate from imagination. Tell them to study the object and look for consistencies or relationships.
That's one of the many things that will help people improve that are surprisingly not known by a lot of beginners. It isn't second nature to someone new to art, but it is to you, so you don't consider it and that's the annoying flaw in humans. They take their knowledge for granted and attribute it to 'common sense', when no one cares if it's common sense for you. We're trying to inform beginners to the point where it's actually common sense and those who say that it is don't have to excuse the fact that people not knowing about it proves it isn't actually common sense.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:49:32 2019 No.3848837

>>3848812
Nobody who has internet access should be empty of inspiration completely, to just widdle away at the same routine. I agree “just get good” isn’t a answer, but it is how you should be thinking. A satisfied artist is one that pushes comfort zones to impress themselves again and again.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 20:58:04 2019 No.3848850

>>3848837
That's the thing. They don't know that there ARE other routines. We do. That's why we explain to people who haven't figured it. out.
>Nobody who has internet access
I mean they're utilizing it by coming here lol
>A satisfied artist is one that pushes comfort zones to impress themselves again and again.
Well they stay in their comfort zones, drawing what they're used to because they're convinced they can't improve. When you get good at one thing and try another and it turns out bad, it's demotivating to someone who doesn't know that practice makes perfect. They try different things but they're convinced they won't get better, because they're not aware of how to learn or that your skill isn't in a static state. You have no clue how oblivious most beginners/non-artists are. I was one of them. I didn't even know you could improve. I thought you were born with talent, until I realized and scoured /ic/ for good information on learning, which turned me into who I am today.

Literally the only reason I'm here doing this is because I know this feeling and upon researching how to learn when other artists informed me after I asked how I could improve, it opened and entirely new world to me that I wasn't aware of. And it showed me how ignorant I and many other people who aren't accustomed to art are.

It's depressing that others are unable to see this disconnect between those who haven't touched a lick of art and themselves. They project their knowledge onto people and expect to see results but are disappointed when they realize that people aren't logical machines that function outside of their perspective.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:00:35 2019 No.3848853 >>3847833 Just draw if you can't even do that how you gonna do anything ngmi dumb fucks

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:04:26 2019 No.3848857

>>3848073
You realize that this video isn't just it's title and that in the video he explains what it means, right? The point being made is that just draw itself is meaningless. If you don't explain all of what Feng Zhu did in his video then the advice is just as garbage as the social equivilent 'be yourself.'

No one can read in this thread.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:11:23 2019 No.3848862

>>3848850
I started like a lot of artists with the drive in them, scribbles/stick figures/using molding clay “human” like figures to understand shadows/ to digital art.
I totally sympathize with your intentions, I can relate to trying to learn from a pro who drew without construction lines in just pen. I still haven’t mastered the use of negitive space but I’m working on it.
I think the best way for them to learn is to trace references, until enough muscle memory collects to branch out to dynamic basic construction.
Any other away I know of is too discouraging for the new creatives among us.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:17:54 2019 No.3848867

>>3848862
>I think the best way for them to learn is to trace references
Agreed. It's a good starting point as long as they're mindful.
Also, don't get me wrong, as much as I'm dissing 'just draw' it's only a specific form of the advice that I don't like. When people are beginners and they're looking to understand how to draw an arm, THAT'S when we should throw out just draw, but I believe it should be aided with what FZD said in his video.
Just draw is for the beginning stages but it doesn't work much further beyond that and can lead to them stagnating futher because the only thing they've been told is to just draw, and that's all they assume needs to be done. They don't question it because '/ic/ is full of artists better than me, so that must be all.'
Even if that's a dumb way of thinking, it's still fair game to make sure that it doesn't happen. As much as people want to appeal to common sense I see no problem with preventing these things from happening.

I don't see why people have to be so elitist and negative.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:22:18 2019 No.3848874

>>3848862
>>3848867
Whoops
>It doesn't work much further beyond in terms of helping someone improve, at least when they get past the initial stage of anxiety*

>When people are beginners and they're looking to know how to draw an arm, that's when you tell them to just draw, but also aid that advice with helpful tips on how to absorb information faster*

>When people are beginners and they're looking to understand how to draw an arm, THAT'S when we should throw out just draw. I don't think it's dumb because they couldn't possible know something they don't know*

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:24:10 2019 No.3848879

>>3848867
Easy, why make more competition? That’s the real problem with elitist. Art is so hard to make a living with that people who just draw for the hell of it tend to be the ones that make their mark in the end. (With a bunch of luck/marketing)
It’s getting easier to monetize digital content, that’s good news.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 21:29:41 2019 No.3848886

>>3848879
>Easy, why make more competition?
Of course. I can empathize with that, although I don't see it that way. I'd like it more if they outright said it instead of being purposefully ignorant and being facetious. Arguing with people who reply in bad faith and come up with any excuse is much more annoying than someone someone who understands and accepts themselves as outright deviant. But ah, well.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:06:29 2019 No.3848920

>>3848812
>>3848867
Arguments to your point isn't strawmaning.
If anything you're strawmaning me. Nowhere was i saying 'just draw' was for people who hesitate or never draw, that's not an argument. There is plenty of resources on /ic so as a beginner, unless you just don't know what learning is, its inexcusable to be asking broad ass questions on how to get good and if they get stuck in a loop of drawing mindlessly then it's their own fault for not thinking critically. They'll be there till they learn how to research and answer there own questions, at which point they'll be better for it. You're on this, i don't know, crusade to save and teach these beginners to not just draw but all you will really accomplish is rob them of any learning and self improvement they would have gotten otherwise and to perpetuate their habits of relying on big daddy /ic to spoon feed them on how to draw which is the reason they're in that kind of situation to begin with.
>until I realized and scoured /ic/ for good information on learning, which turned me into who I am today.
Apparently that's exactly what happened to you which means you've learned the dangers of relying on /ic. 'just draw' is the cure for beginners reliance on /ic.

So whats you're advice? Tell them to trace references. That's bonkers to me cause its worse then 'just draw' cause instead of being directionless and eventually seeking out other solutions cause of said lack of direction, you want to tell them to reference draw and give them an illusion of direction.
>Well, /ic told me to trace references and that's all I've done since now my art sux.
You have no solution. Well you do but you refuse to use it and instead want to perpetuate what you want to prevent. It's a fitting representation of your character, speaks to my poetic side i guess. In your attempts to teach others how to teach themselves you unknowingly continue their reliance on /ic and then curse out the one thing that could teach them independence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:26:11 2019 No.3848944 >>3847833 Just draw you fucking bish

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:38:17 2019 No.3848962

>>3848920
It might be bonkers to learn from tracing. so is picking up a paint brush and having a dream to be remembered. We’re all “crazy”, that’s not the point.

There’s two kinds of artists, those who mix techniques from all sorts of resources. Then there’s artist who wish to do their own thing and nobody can tell them shit about how they should make art.

Guess what one would mock tracing for practice? You’re set in your ways and that’s cool, but we both know if a artist does nothing but trace they’ll get bored. or learn how to con people out of money for awhile until they’re outed and shamed.

Learning with shortcuts is one thing, but trying to make money off stealing the creative works of others is what faggots (gay or straight) do.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:47:06 2019 No.3848967

>>3848962
That had nothing to do with my arguments to your point, holy shit. I get it's hard to defend a point that is dumb without admitting your wrong but at least make an effort to conceal your deflection habits. Your nonsensical connections to points that have nothing to do with what we're talking about are mighty impressive and remind me of joke conspiracies that connect the amount of points on the m in McDonald to why the world is run by ants.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:56:18 2019 No.3848975
File: 1.88 MB, 4096x3072, IMG_20190312_225316162.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3848166
Not looking for a routine. Don't even really know what I'm looking for most of the time

Ya don't really know how to ask the question.
You read beginner books and you can do the basic shit they do and talk about in the book, but only what they do. Can't really make sense of the ideas they're talking about outside the sepcific demonstration they are using.

So you post work and ask for general advice. "sticky" "loomis" "just draw". Well the books didn't work, and you're not ready for the more advanced books, so you just draw. And everything is fucked up and you don't really know what you're doing. You keep making the same mistakes over and over, drasticly change something and fuck it up worse, or just keep going through a cycle of new mistakes with no signs of improving.

Videos don't work well either. Part of it is the same thing as the book problem, and the other part is that there's stuff on the super basic techniques and ideas, stuff on the super advanced techniques and ideas, but nothing on the path between the two.

Copies are in the same boat as just draw.

I don't know what you mean by fundamental exercises so I can't speak on that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 22:59:02 2019 No.3848977 >>3848975 fuck i forgot his left ear i fucking disabled courage

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:00:50 2019 No.3848978 >>3848975 What are you trying to do? Realistic portraits, anime, cartoons, animation? You have to have some aspirations which means you have direction. Figure out what that direction is and you'll be able to map out a path to get there.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:07:06 2019 No.3848982

>>3848967
Getting upset and tossing insults is counter productive.I’ve said my peace and I stand by my opinion. I hope all the new people learn the way they feel excited, so when a critic comes stomping through their work they can take useful information from it and keep going. Instead of being dismissed and getting all Adolf about their feelings.

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:28:40 2019 No.3848999

>>3848982
While i have been abrasive it changes nothing about my points. Which in my last comment i had at least 3 good arguments against your "'just draw' is dumb" stance and how your efforts contradicted yourself but instead of addressing those and having a discussion you honed in on the fact that i said reference tracing is bonkers, which was part of a larger point that you ignored along with everything else. You took that bonkers statement and ran, ran away from any opposition to your beliefs too. And through all the dodged points you ended your comment about art faggots. If that's not the most apprehensive thing to do in face of actual discussion i don't know what is. Your a child. Couldn't think of any counter points so just ignore it, it didn't happen.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:31:56 2019 No.3849004 The more you overthink, the more afraid you're going to be

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:38:43 2019 No.3849012 >>3848978 I like everything which means I try to achieve everything. And I guess that's sort of directionless in it's own way? Regardless of direction, I don't know the first thing about "mapping a path".

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:40:35 2019 No.3849014 >>3848999 You’re a very loney person I bet, with all that egotistical nonsense bubbling within. Good luck being happy, I mean it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:44:05 2019 No.3849016 >>3849014 >tossing insults is counter productive 'please dont skip over my point' >skips over point again >tosses insults wow ok

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:47:30 2019 No.3849017 >>3849016 >thinks this is a debate thread instead of a open discussion about learning. how far is your head up your own ass?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:48:52 2019 No.3849019 >>3849017 Not me anon, but he sure cured my loneliness

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:49:46 2019 No.3849020 >>3849019 Glad to hear it

Anonymous Tue Mar 12 23:54:34 2019 No.3849023

>>3849012
Pick what you're trying to achieve and write down all the building blocks needed to get there. If your thing is portraits it would be something like
>life drawing skill
>perspective
>shading
Then you look at those larger building blocks and try to break them into smaller bits to be able to complete them
>life drawing skill
-observation skills
-pencil control or pen to paper control
>perspective
-1 point perspective
-ect...
You do that and you'll have a clear idea of what you need to do to draw portraits and what to practice to get there. This works for me might not for you but i feel its a good way to visualize what you need to do to accomplish what you want. In most cases the building blocks will be the fundamentals but it should only highlight just the fundamentals you need to focus on. You should also practice your building blocks together going from one to another not as a check list of things to "complete" or "master" cause you'll most likely never master any single one, will always be more to learn.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:05:34 2019 No.3849032

>>3849012
Also might want to remember that this is just your study list. Ideally you'll always have a goal your going for or something your studying for the rest of your life to always be improving but it isn't your fun expression stuff. Try to always be drawing stuff you want with studying on the side. Enjoy your fun drawings and try to apply what you learn but don't just do the studying with the mindset of "Ill wait till i'm good enough" because then you'll get bored and possible quit. Like a guy going to the gym you wont see results immediately but over a long time you'll see how much you've improve.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:09:44 2019 No.3849036

funfact: you need a good balance of studying AND just drawing mindlessly.

only studying makes your drawings lose soul and style for the sake of complete accuracy
only drawing mindlessly makes your drawings lack proper construction, and just kinda look deformed as shit even if it has a decent style going on

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:15:39 2019 No.3849042 >>3849017 Wat? Im not even original comment. You're just being rude now. >>3849019 Ur welcum

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:16:37 2019 No.3849045 >>3847859 >we all ingnorant

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:17:29 2019 No.3849046 >>3849017 How is telling someone they're a lonely sad person an "open discussion"?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:21:59 2019 No.3849049 >>3849036 >Draw thing you like >Try to see what is the thing about it that looks the worst >Study that thing so you can fix it You just need to practice a bit of the basics when you're absolute /beg/

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:23:27 2019 No.3849052 >>3849049 yeah that too

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:33:07 2019 No.3849059

>>3849023
Based on this, why would I try to specialize in one type of drawing (non sarcastic)? Artists of all levels seem to talk about how fundamental skills like the ones you listed for portraits are pretty much necessary (or at least handy) for all styles.
>>3849023
>You should also practice your building blocks together going from one to another not as a check list of things to "complete" or "master" cause you'll most likely never master any single one, will always be more to learn.
Yeah, that seems important.

>>3849032
>>3849036
Good stuff

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 00:44:25 2019 No.3849072

>>3849059
The fundamentals play a roll in all art and art styles but some styles leave more room or rely more heavily on certain fundamentals. For portraits you might want to learn and practice forms especially if you want to do portraits from imagination let's say. But from reference or life if you have really good life drawing skills with good shading you can do well. You ideally want to learn all the fundamentals but its about learning how an art style uses which ones in what way. How you use shading will be different in hyper realistic portraits then lets say minimalist cartoons. Its the same fundamental but it varies wildly in technique which is probably why you see some artists specializing in different fields of art.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 01:21:01 2019 No.3849097

>>3848528
>so I don't understand what your point is?
If you see someone give the advice without the context of the video then just post the fucking video, no need to sperg out. If your expecting no one to ever say anything stupid or give half assed info then find a new fuckin website guy.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 01:28:37 2019 No.3849102

It's a mix. You need to be mechanical at times and study and follow references and advice trying to be correct... And then allow yourself to rest some time mindlessly drawing.
I like saying that fundies/studies are like getting lemons but drawing from imagination is actually making the lemonade. That's where you'll have the most fun and taste your results AFTER studying. The Just Draw advice is right most of the time since it's usually troubled people asking shit after reading for days.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 01:38:56 2019 No.3849107

>>3848857
>You realize that this video isn't just it's title and that in the video he explains what it means, right?
Ya that's literally exactly what I was saying. If you see someone say just draw without context then just link to the video for context. You don't need to reiterate the point of the video in text.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 01:43:08 2019 No.3849111

>>3848920
The person replying to you after this isn't me. I don't even know why he didn't clarify that even after he had several chances to. Either way I'm done with this entire thing. You've completely misread everything I said and I'm not in the mood to correct it for the 5th time.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 03:03:18 2019 No.3849154

>>3849111
No i haven't misread anything. I understand what your trying to say but i just disagree. And you only don't want to "correct" me cause you don't have anything to refute what i've said. You stopped listening and trying to prove your point when i first told you that you were wrong, explained how your rebuttal to that first point i made was wrong, then gave you evidence that proved that what you said was wrong and you still were stubborn about the whole thing. Even if the second guy isn't "you" you've been ignoring my points and deflecting long before he "showed" "up".

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 03:22:23 2019 No.3849172 >>3849012 That's basically the same as having no preference or aspirations. It's impossible to tailor any useful advise with that kind of paramter that isn't some generalized platitudes. Do you even like to draw?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 03:42:59 2019 No.3849188 >>3848962 How does tracing help you draw exactly? Controlling line weight? Confidence?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 03:46:27 2019 No.3849191 >>3849023 What are the building blocks path for animation

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 03:53:21 2019 No.3849197

>>3849188
the only case where tracing is remotely useful is when you take a drawing made by someone and construct on top of it to understand the spacing of features and shit like that
or things like setting the drawing to low opacity and drawing your own thing on top using the basic centerline and then overlapping the drawing with your drawing to see the difference
this kind of fuckery helps, taking a drawing and tracing it will do absolutely nothing for you.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 04:35:57 2019 No.3849213

>>3849191
This is the part you do yourself. It wont help nearly as much if you don't figure your own shit out. It's your goals, you should at least do your own research. Others will only be able to give you generalizations instead of you figuring out what it is you actual need to meet your own goals. Doing this preliminary research of what to study will give you more of an understanding of the subject before you even begin to do the practice and deeper dive studies. You'll also learn to do it yourself for the future when you want to study something else instead of relying on others to tell you what to do.

Of course there will always be something you don't know or cant figure out no matter what you study at which point it's fine to outsource for help and maybe sometimes in less strict scenarios too but you should try to be self-sufficient. Once you map what you think is the ideal plan for you to succeed, you do it or if you must, ask people here if you should study anything else. Even if you don't get everything, by doing the practice you'll begin to see what you need to do differently at which point you can do more research and add it into your studying.

But again that's just the method that works for me. If you think asking others what it is you need to study then by all means but i feel that it's a bad habit for most beginners here and creates a reliance on /ic to tell you who's daddy instead of just using it as a resource for unique problems and reading material. Though if you do want to plan it out yourself, i'd start with youtube videos. While lacking in depth in most areas they're usually a good introduction to the subject at which point you can move to more intermediate videos, then to articles and then finally to more serious books and content from well know artists. I just don't like most of the advice given here, just doesn't fit into what i need so im adverse to recommend others to take it.

And yea i see the irony.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 05:25:50 2019 No.3849244 >>3849191 >drawing fundamentals with an emphasis on gesture + >spacing >timing >12 principles then you'd move on to more advanced things like effects and character animation

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 11:43:11 2019 No.3849442

>>3849172
>It's impossible to tailor any useful advise with that kind of paramter that isn't some generalized platitudes.
Since everything seems to be about fundamentals I was looking for ways to think about and apply fundamentals at a higher level than what the basic books/videos have you do.

>That's basically the same as having no preference or aspirations.
I figured having no preference wasn't an issue. My aspiration is to get my ideas to take form in reality and I thought to get that you'd need to think about and apply fundamentals at a high level (and copy well).

>Do you even like to draw?
hmmmmmmm. I like bringing an idea to life (or at least trying to). I like it when something I make looks accurate. I like looking at stuff artistically (3 dimensionality of an object). I'm not really sure if I "like" drawing though. If I could transfer my ideas from my mind to paper, I don't think I'd ever draw.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 11:46:45 2019 No.3849445 >>3849197 Also how useful is construction tracing? I enjoy it a lot. It also made me realize that some of my fundamentals weren't good enough to understand what was going on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 11:46:57 2019 No.3849446 >>3849442 Well, what kind of ideas?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 12:45:46 2019 No.3849496 Y'all still arguing about this, huh

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:09:59 2019 No.3849521 >>3849446 It could be anything. Building, waifu, my dog, spongebob. That's why I've never been to hung up on the specifics, just the fundamentals that are supposed to be applied everywhere.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:13:11 2019 No.3849523

>>3849521
Stuff like, are loomis boxes (planes of the body) all there is to the figure in perspective? Or any subject for that matter? Do i even need to think about horizon/vanishing points/converging lines or can I/should I just create a box for my subject? Tips on figuring out the planes for non human/boxy subjects? I know Scott Robertson talks about some of this but I'm still stuck on the minor axis of the ellipse (chapter 1) and chapter 2.

It gets hard to know how to think and how to know if you're conclusion is right. Just draw is part of the process, but as many people have stated, JUST drawing doesn't cut it

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:15:14 2019 No.3849525 >>3849523 Generally hard to ask questions like these bc you don't know what the FUCK you're talking about or trying to figure out.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:23:36 2019 No.3849531

Heh, if drawabox / viscom didn't work for you losers then it means you didn't have the discipline to grind. Tons of people are NGMI due to lack of discipline. If you disagree then post your fundie studies of 2 years and lets see. I bet you are drawing cylinders mindlessly and not paying attention to accuracy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:37:40 2019 No.3849541 >>3849523 >>3849521 You don't actually draw at all.

Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:43:24 2019 No.3849545

>>3849531
drawbox was great. It helped me it helped early on with perspective, making stuff 3d AND FINALLY FUCKING DRAWING SOME ACCURATE ELLIPSES even if I didn't understand the axis stuff.

Don't know what the fuck a viscom is. is this it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXhySJB2x7o

>>3849541
Literally? I do. More and more since I can't figure out what I'm not getting In some type metaphorical/bigger picture way? I don't even know what you mean by that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 13:47:21 2019 No.3849548 >>3849545 You literally don't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 18:30:22 2019 No.3849861 >>3849496 It's legitimately just one really salty dude replying to everyone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 18:53:14 2019 No.3849908 >>3849861 >>3849496 Nope, I left long ago to go work and they're still going, but ok. I've been done with this thread, don't worry. Doesn't matter if I leave or not, they'll never stop bickering till the thread is dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 13 18:54:26 2019 No.3849910 >>3847833 Okay, how about go study loomis you fag

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 06:53:01 2019 No.3850773 >>3849541 >>3849545 >>3849548 This confuses me. What are you guys talking about?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 06:57:32 2019 No.3850778 >>3847833 Doesn't the "just draw" method work for a bunch of people? Everyone learns differently. I'd assume that's why that advice is so prevalent.

Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:05:37 2019 No.3850782

>>3848073
I started posting here since 2014 and ppl where saying 'just draw' back then too, that video is like 1 year old.

you just explained 2 meanings of the phrase 'just draw', and yet find so hard to understand that when you say just 'just draw' some ppl end up understand something else than what you meant? on top of lacking empathy you are also an hypocrite

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:11:40 2019 No.3850786 >>3848975 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v21KM0URH3A

Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:17:45 2019 No.3850789

>>3849445
It can help if you know how to make basic spheres / cut them with ellipses etc but your proportions are unappealing or you don't know exactly what you're doing wrong or maybe you draw some cartoony style and you don't know exactly how to simplify a thing, so you grab a drawing / animation frame and you rebuild the construction on top carefully, then you put the original drawing aside and draw the rest of the thing from your head using those guidelines, then you put the original drawing back on and you see where the proportions mismatch or maybe what kind of stylistic shorthand the artist used to convey certain things, stuff like that

I do it just for lineart because that's what I do but I'm sure you can do this sort of stuff for just about anything, even rendering or colors. Use layers, overlap, draw on top, do whatever you need for analysis but always do it with some sort of criteria and compare what you have in your head with what you see in the resource. If you use your brain literally anything can become a tool for learning.

Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:22:26 2019 No.3850796

>>3850789
Another thing you can do that is super important is turning stuff into greyscale. It helps you so much to understand what the artist is doing with colors, good art reads amazing in greyscale and usually has some hidden patterns that you don't see in color. Also in traditional you can use a greyscale photo app like Hypocam and just open the app and look at your painting in greyscale in real time, you can fix a lot of color problems just by adjusting the values
In digital you can create a layer that is set on "color" blend mode and bucket fill it with black and put it on top of all the other layers. You can switch greyscale on/off by hiding or unhiding the layer

Seriously use as much digital fuckery as you can, be creative

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:36:52 2019 No.3850805 "when you are stuck, or your image looks wrong, then you must look at reference." - > anime reference of stuck pose or real-life human form reference from a real photograph?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 07:52:56 2019 No.3850814 Guys, I'm going to give you the real secret. You need to approach art from another angle. Wipe your mind slate clean and start all over from a new perspective. The hint is in my words. Now go.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 14 09:29:04 2019 No.3850892 >>3850782 >>3849097

Anonymous Fri Mar 15 23:38:11 2019 No.3852778

>>3850892
>>3849097
I was going to mention this but I wasn't sure if I was right. I remember seeing it way before I browsed 4chan. My point was that no one gives context, but that doesn't mean I don't do that. That's literally why I bother making threads like this or comment on 'just draw' posts with context. The problem is I can't be there always, and I'm just trying to weed out people with malicious intentions from those than genuinely don't understand how 'just draw' is advice that can't be applied to all contexts. Only some.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 18 01:15:07 2019 No.3855159 >>3847833 If you were to make all of the quintessential anti-"just draw" arguments, what would it be in a single post tho?

Anonymous Mon Mar 18 02:13:22 2019 No.3855194

>>3849012
>I like everything which means I try to achieve everything
Ok so think about this, if you could only pass on only 1 painting for posterity, what would it depict? Would it be a landscape? A portrait? A comic? Would it be slightly erotic? Romantic? Would you rather it showcased emotion or technical skills? Etc. Think about this for a while, over multiple days.

Achieving that one piece of art should be your main goal. At least that's how I realized what I want to do. I might do some drawing of buildings for fun for example, but I don't spend much time on them because I'm just not that interested in drawing architecture.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 18 21:04:27 2019 No.3856153 >>3848754 >One could just as easily look at this sticky and blindly copy as he's done before, since that's all he knows. The wiki includes a literal step-by-step walkthrough. If someone doesn't read the fucking sticky then that's on them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 19 13:08:48 2019 No.3857065 >>3856153 the sticky is very outdated

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 19 13:38:55 2019 No.3857090 >>3857065 Ya there's been a lot of big advances in art these past few years eh?

Anonymous Tue Mar 19 14:36:30 2019 No.3857149

>>3855194
Not him but have you heard of the experiment in a pottery class where a class of average students was divided into two? One half had to make the one absolute best pot they could possibly make over that time, while the other half was instructed to simply make as many pots as humanly possible during that time. The students that just churned out pots were worse at first, but at the end of the time limit uniformly had improved and made far better work across the board.

I do think you're absolutely right that you have to have some kind of thing you want to ultimately achieve in order to have direction, such as making the comic of your dreams, but I think the main focus should be to churn out work (with standards and guidance from books/classes etc.) as much as possible.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 19 14:44:25 2019 No.3857161 File: 344 KB, 430x650, f345e2bf53fe157b1ec172435f6f281ecc4cd8c2dde0177f3e03e3a1b774b2ca.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3847937 based and underrated post

Anonymous Thu Mar 21 00:22:21 2019 No.3859059

>>3847833
It's more of a problem of people not elaborating on their advice than it is with "just draw" itself. I don't think I'm saying anything revolutionary when I say: If you wanna improve at drawing, you need to practice by drawing.
Informative images should be saved more often and propagated more desu
Usually the "just draw" advice is given to someone who's lazy/unmotivated or to someone who is simply just not drawing as much as they ought to.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 21 00:28:31 2019 No.3859065 File: 141 KB, 1171x1313, sn,x1313-bg,f8f8f8.u2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why grind when you can just have an extreme form of schizophrenia that lets you copy down what you see in your imagination?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 21 07:27:48 2019 No.3859435 >>3859059 It should be advice given to the lazy but it's now just a substitute for anything drawing related.

Anonymous Thu Mar 21 08:50:16 2019 No.3859491

>no actual other advice posted in the thread. Just flaming and rolling around in own shit.

OP is too fucking dumb to realize that op image is actually supporting the idea that you have to actually draw to get good, ie. "just go fucking draw" instead of posting shit-threads on /ic/.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 21 09:37:45 2019 No.3859514 >>3859491 Wow who would have guessed that doing a thing you want to get better at involves doing that thing. Thanks for giving another reason why the 'advice'is completely useless outside of being told to lazy fucks like you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 21 11:35:29 2019 No.3859626 >>3859065 >just have schizophrenia Nah, I'll pass on that

Anonymous Thu Mar 21 11:43:39 2019 No.3859647

>>3847838
> censoring fag

You are doubtfully a professional, almost definitely not a genuine person, and an actual asshat and pro filtered speech.

I know for a fact there are pros here and they diss people for fun cause it's anonymous. I talk on the regular with one.
You're just a coward pretending he's an adult. Now go lick your boss' asshole like a good wagie and think you're impressing anyone with your speech version of an ugly tie.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 21 12:17:14 2019 No.3859702 >>3859514 >"lazy fucks like you" nice reaching there. You'e literally just trying to stirr shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 22 01:37:28 2019 No.3860546 >>3847838 >then we're stuck /pol and /b idiots who don't even post their own work... This is one of the slowest boards on 4chan. I doubt that most people in /b/ or /pol/ even know this board exists.

Anonymous Fri Mar 22 03:57:40 2019 No.3860638
File: 6 KB, 300x100, 1535059284171.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Not sure if I'm in a bad mood or what, but I couldn't read this thread past this >>3847868 post.

Y'all niggers should try and write properly when giving advice, I can't take the words of an illiterate as credible or even serious.
I keep imagining everyone as depressed, low-education Twitter fujoshis.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 22 03:58:53 2019 No.3860639 >>3860638 >Y'all Speak for yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 23 19:39:15 2019 No.3862869 >>3847833 There's only so much advice you can give someone desu

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/ic/ - Artwork/Critique