/ic/ - Artwork/Critique

[Anonymous No.3823318]

Are cartoons(and getting extremely lucky) the only way to make good money off of art?

[Anonymous No.3823320]

>>3823318
no, lurk more before making useless threads

[Anonymous No.3823491]

>>3823318

Depends on what you mean by
>Make good money off of art

The mistake is assuming people like Sakimichan, who pull somewhere between 100k-500kish a year, are making big money. They're not, and their livelihood is at the mercy of platforms who could end it all in an instant.

If you want to see what making money off of art REALLY looks like, don't look at the gold miners like Sakimichan or cartoon creators, take a look at the people selling shovels.

For example,
>Adobe is worth 125 Billion dollars right now.
>Autodesk, maker of 3D program Maya, is worth 35 Billion dollars.
>Wacom is worth 1.8 Billion dollars
>Patreon as of 2017 just got another round of funding for 450 million dollars
>Media publisher Disney is worth 130 Billion
>Media publisher Valve is worth 2-4 Billion
>Media publisher Turner Broadcasting, which among other things owns cartoon network and adult swim, is owned by Time Warner, which is worth 73 Billion.

If you wanna make art, yes there's a little niche in which you probably can make a little money, probably, and that money could be enough to buy a nice house, and maybe a nice car. If that's all you want, that's fine.

But if you wanna make money, and I mean GOOD money, not scraps, sell the tools or dream for others to do it. Your "Living the dream" tax will ultimately far exceed the value of any individual attempt to live it yourself.

[Anonymous No.3823495]

>>3823491

[Anonymous No.3823498]

>>3823491
Sounds like some California Gold Rush tactics right there my man

[Anonymous No.3823502]

>>3823491
Yeah but while you live off the dream some people live the dream and make it

Of course it's very few, select individuals who needed a lot of luck, but its something.

[Anonymous No.3823504]

>>3823502
And here's some examples
>Walt Disney was worth 5 billion
>Matt Groening is worth 500 million
>Seth McFarlane is worth 200 million
>John K is worth 5 million

[Anonymous No.3823507]

>>3823491
That requires high intelligence and actual talent. It's far easier to just become good at art.

[Anonymous No.3823513]

>>3823502
Do you want to live the dream, or do you want make good money off of art?

Both are fine goals, but they are not the same goals. Pic related.

[Anonymous No.3823517]

>>3823491
I would be happy making 1000 euros a month. I don't care about being popular or rich, I just want to survive while I make my comics. But even that seems fucking impossible.

[Anonymous No.3823535]

>>3823517

This is a much lower bar than you think. In roughly 1/3rd of Europe, 1000 euros is the monthly minimum wage.

Even assuming you have no technical, business, or personal skills besides those necessary to take a dead-end retail job, this is attainable for you now.

[Anonymous No.3823555]

>>3823535
I'm practically impossible to hire because I'm too old and I have no skills, no job experiences, no education. I can only draw and although I'm decent I'm not amazing. I feel like I'm fucked and I'm trying to bet everything on drawing but people are just not interested in what I do.

[Anonymous No.3823583]

>old and I have no skills, no job experiences, no education.
unironically how does this happen?

[Anonymous No.3823586]

>>3823535
Teach a course on how to make 1k a month off art

[Anonymous No.3823598]

>>3823513
Huh? Living the dream is being a professional artist

[Anonymous No.3823618]

>>3823555
With that self esteem, you'll remain a loser... I'm too ooold I have no skiiill... Stop! That's not how succesful people think or thought!!

[Anonymous No.3823622]

>>3823535
I do less than minimum wage, in one of those countries. Feels bad man.

[Anonymous No.3823626]

>>3823618
I used to be extremely motivated and confident, I was 100% sure I was gonna make it but years later I just resigned.

[Anonymous No.3823645]

>>3823598
>Implying living the dream isn't being a monster truck driver

If there can only be one dream, professional artist is not the dream.

[Anonymous No.3824132]

>>3823513
>get a gun and shoot both rabbits from the same spot
So fucking hard

[Anonymous No.3824587]

>>3824132
That's why he said "chase", and not "kill".

[Anonymous No.3824592]

>>3823555
how the hell did you make it to "too old" age without a job??

[containercore !o3a0NktvbA No.3824596]

>>3823535
Scandinavian countries do have a minimum wage but it's set by union agreements not law.

[Anonymous No.3824692]

>>3824587
>get a bike
>be fast enough to catch both rabbits

[Anonymous No.3824693]

yes

[Anonymous No.3824705]

>>3823626
Go ahead, give up. That way you will be GUARANTEED to never live your dream! It's really hard, I know, but *95% of Earth's adult human population had ambitious plans & gave up, *5% actually tried & *2,5% achieved it. (*real percentage might differ,this is to give you the idea)

"Those who fight MIGHT lose, those who don't have already lost..."

[Anonymous No.3824707]

>>3823555
If you're decent but not amazing... well, there's always porn

[Anonymous No.3824792]

>>3824692

This hunting scenario is growing increasingly contrived.

What if both rabbits are running towards different burrows and once they get in, you're not going be able to shoot them, even assuming you're the horse-archer style gun-bicyclist you apparently think you are?

[Anonymous No.3824873]

>>3824705
>be drawing and studying hardcore for ~4 years
>get to know someone from a graphic design studio who offers to hire me(haven’t gone for it yet)
>get multiple friends and people on DA asking for commissions already
>at the same time College work is piling up
>Little time to draw anymore
>career through College degree is much more lucrative
>plus I realized the only people who make money on Patreon are hacks who trace and furry porn artists

I think I’m on the verge of losing

[Anonymous No.3824899]

>>3824792
>point shotgun down rabbit hole
>rabbit comes out to say "Eh, whats up doc?"
>grab rabbit by neck
>rinse and repeat

you clearly aren't thinking outside the box like I am

[Anonymous No.3824903]

>>3824792
>Block out the whole area
>Cut the woods down with a deforestation team.
>Bring in the escavators and tear the place apart until you find two rabbits.

Wow, that was hard...

[Anonymous No.3824925]

>>3824792
I am kgb
I need not a rabbit

[Anonymous No.3824980]

>>3824592
brain issues

[Anonymous No.3825012]

>>3824873
What do you want to do with your life? I got a STEM degree and a job and I don’t feel like my life is going anywhere. Follow your passion since it seems like you actually have an opportunity to do so. Otherwise what are you doing with your life?

[Anonymous No.3825255]

>>3825012
I wanted to make a videogame or a cartoon but the odds of making it let alone making a living while doing so are slim, when I was first starting out I jokingly thought I could just make it big on Patreon.

[Anonymous No.3825431]

>>3824792
>go to rabbit store
>buy 2 rabbits

[Anonymous No.3825434]

>>3825012
How did you manage through all the piles of work in STEM? Did your memory never break?

[Anonymous No.3825473]

>>3825434
How did I manage? Just barely. It took me 6 years to finish because I went in for the money and never actually cared about the subject. I kept failing my classes until I tryharded long enough to pass, then I took half a year to find a job with my horrible GPA.

Now that I've had my job for a few years, it doesn't really feel like my life is going anywhere anymore, because I don't care about the field in the first place. I am spending more and more of my free time drawing, and I just zone out at work.

I was just trying to warn people what it's really like to try to do something you don't care about for the sake of money. Basically it feels like I should have just followed my passion to begin with, because life feels kind of pointless without doing so.

[Anonymous No.3825478]

>>3823318
>extremely lucky
Well there is a little bit of luck involved in getting a show greenlit, but it's the artists who are truly autistically passionate who make the most successful products, stuff that socially adjusted normalfags in suits just couldn't replicate for themselves.

[Anonymous No.3825481]

>>3825473
So what do you do with all your money? It must be going somewhere right? Or is it just stacking up pointlessly?

[Anonymous No.3825487]

>>3825481
Yeah it's not really going anywhere. I'm not motivated to keep working at all at this point, when I can pay rent for a few months easily, but I just keep working out of inertia.

Everyone tells me not to quit because it's harder to find a job with a gap in employment, but I probably should quit anyways. You can't buy skill, you have to actually work on it.

The worst part is you can't really talk to many people about it, because most people are broke and won't sympathize with your situation.

[Anonymous No.3825498]

>>3825473
This was me. You’re hosed as soon as you notice yourself procrastinating all day at work, no matter the money.

[Anonymous No.3825500]

>>3825498
So what do you do then? Quit as soon as you save up enough money? Where do I go with my life?

[Anonymous No.3825508]

>>3825500
I quit for a year, lived overseas, went back on remote after a year to digital nomad and quit again 6 months ago to move back in with parents at 29. If you arnt lucky enough to have someone to subsidise you then part time work and shithole apartment with roommates would be just as good if not better.

[Anonymous No.3825519]

>>3825508
Edit: im assuming you want time to art grind like I did

[Anonymous No.3825526]

>>3825473
Hey, me too. Although my career is tolerable, there are other things I'd rather be doing.
The best advice I can give is to think long-term. Work as much as you can on your skills/side projects in your off-time and you'll be gradually progressing towards doing what you really want.

[Anonymous No.3825551]

>>3825478
Most Japanese animators have that level of passion and they live off Walmart wages

[Anonymous No.3825572]

>>3825500
As long as you're not getting enough income with your passion, you need a stable cash flow = a job to pay the bills!

If you go all out & quit everything though : you'd better be 100% sure of what you're doing because if it doesn't work, YOU ARE DONE...

[Anonymous No.3826488]

>>3824693
I cannot attend an atelier or school. I will never make it like that.

[Anonymous No.3826496]

>>3825551
How could ever be so passionate about modern animation? most of it is pretty shitty.
I'd understand living like a slave to work on Jin Roh or Akira, or even stuff like Ping Pong or Devilman Crybaby, but to do that to produce moeblob shit? Still, hats off to them.

[Anonymous No.3828714]

>>3823491
>Adobe is worth 125 Billion dollars right now.
>Autodesk, maker of 3D program Maya, is worth 35 Billion dollars.
>Wacom is worth 1.8 Billion dollars
>Patreon as of 2017 just got another round of funding for 450 million dollars


In other words learn to code. I guess people could work on a proper Photoshop/toon boom for VR not that limited tilt brush shit

[Anonymous No.3828715]

>>3826496
>he thinks moeblobs are easy
It's the animation part anyways.

[Anonymous No.3828734]

>>3828715
I didn't say they are easy, I said that if have to put a massive amount of work for slave wage, it'd better be an artistically great product at least.

[Anonymous No.3828901]

>>3823320
/thread

[Anonymous No.3828920]

>>3823491
annnd /thread

[Anonymous No.3829017]

>>3823318
There are lots of ways but you have to be lucky and consistent in what you want to do.

[Anonymous No.3830092]

>>3826496
Imagine working at Ghibli with Miyazaki looking over your shoulder while you draw.
I would honestly work like a slave for the barest minimum to have that, imagine the insane artistic growth.

[Anonymous No.3830093]

>>3823491
Why are you comparing megacorporations who produce stuff that isn't art with art? Of course Adobe makes a shitton of money. Of course Disney makes money, do artists hired at Disney make Sakimichan's money? Of course not.

That's like telling an oil painter to stop painting and get into the turpentine industry because it's more lucrative.

[Anonymous No.3830099]

>>3830092
Sure, but 99% of animation industry isn't working for Ghibli.

[Anonymous No.3830104]

>>3830099
Yeah I know, just a thought. I don't understand the slaves that work on moeblob either.

[Anonymous No.3830237]

>>3830099
99.9% of humanity isn't happy. 80% are utterly miserable and 19.9% barely pretend to be content.

If you're here, you're not part of the 0.01%. So accept it or end it.

[Anonymous No.3830268]

I currently make a little over $70k/year in my normie. I would want to pursue art as a career in art but I would have to be crazy lucky to get that amount of income.

[Anonymous No.3830316]

>>3825519
Not him but how did the art grind go?
I'm in a very very similar situation to that anon's. I zone out hard at work and can only think of how much time I'm wasting everyday there. I hardly spend money on anything cos nothing really interests me except drawing which is free.
I'm thinking of saving up til I can sort of safely quit to have at least a year to practise like a mad man.
But I always come to the conclusion that it's only a good idea to quit your day job when you're already drawing at a professional level, not to grind in the hopes you'll reach professional level before a year or so.
Though ofc it's always so intriguing to see where one ends up being able to practise so many hours a day.

[Anonymous No.3830321]

>>3830093

>Be a salt-water fish in a cramped fish tank
>"If only the tank was 5 feet longer!"
>The octopus tells the fish the tank-filter drains to the ocean, which is incomprehensibly spacious by comparison
>"Why are you comparing fish tanks and the ocean when I want space? Woe is me!"

Either admit you want to live in the fish tank or take the leap, but don't pretend there wasn't a choice.

[Anonymous No.3830328]

>>3823491
i sure loved it when speakers would come into design courses and tell the room full of art students that they should be learning programming instead so they can make art tools.

[Anonymous No.3830428]

>>3830321
But this analogy makes no sense, you're talking about a completely different product, not just a field of art that is more vast. People here want to be artists, not programmers or engineers.

[Anonymous No.3830498]

>>3830321
You're right, his argument was far too longwinded and well-meaning. Allow me to revise:
>but how do I draw an Adobe?

[Anonymous No.3830501]

>>3830498
Adobe's answer is the key:

>You will ALL draw an Adobe.

[Anonymous No.3831620]

>>3823318
Truth? No. But officially? Yes.
Okay that's not fair, one second- most of the things I've picked up are webcomics related as I want to do one.

>>>/co/106151492
If I've misjudged how the archives work/how slow /ic/ is, check desuarchive for 'Merryweatherey'

>Val Salia
Makes 1k per page on his webcomic, Out of Placers. Assume success is from fetish content(furry, gender tf/transformation), good writing/humor, and being a pretty stand up dude. I quite like him. While 'sex sells' isn't particularly relevatory or inspiring, I don't think that's the lesson here- he seems to have just bumbled into it by doing what he liked, apparently /co/ were the ones who told him to start a patreon. (unconfirmed as yet)
More interestingly, the art for OoP flatly isn't good. It even got worse after he got an actual artist on board. The draw is entirely in the story presented.

>Jeph Jaques
Does Questionable Content and makes 10k per month. Assume success is from appealing to the Tumblr crowd, and updating once per day. Everything else about it is utter mediocrity. /co/ has regular threads dedicated to hating it, which is inexplicable until you've read a few.

And finally /biz/ has (apparently common) hate threads for some camwhore who can pull in 27k per month from donations. Presumably they're a good lesson in how to sell a brand, but fuck man I don't wanna go back to /biz/. It feels like incels and unsympathetic misery in there.

[Anonymous No.3831624]

>>3830328
I hope you did. Those speakers were last stop on the honesty train before all the people who actually cared about your well-being got off.

It takes balls to

>Speak the truth to a crowd
>Where that crowd dedicated most of their life to art and design,
>This crowd is surrounded by professors of design who will speak against you
>Those professors will have the last word
>Where for the crowd you can't be right,
>Because If you were right, it means some or most of the crowd is in the middle of making a fundamental life mistake

And all of this to tell them the truth:
>their design major is a meat grinder
>a handful of winners will actually make a living
>everyone else is signing up for 80 grand of undischargeable student debt for nothing in return.

And all of this when there's such an easy alternative:
>Same school they're already attending offers it,
>Costs the same amount of money,
>Pays 100k+ starting, and
>People working in that field, when you mathematically measure it, make something like 60-90% of the money made in the art field, despite having nothing to do with art.

It was the crowd's choice to ignore them. I'm sure their art taskmaster's contract work will almost help them meet their minimum payments. Almost.